#linuxcnc Logs
Dec 20 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:00 AM Bleepshop: Only the cable runs in the SUB. I spent most of my time on campus doing repairs instead of in class. LOL
12:09 AM roycroft: i moved to eugene in '94, and so much has changed since then
12:09 AM Bleepshop: If there's any old Mac's kicking around look for a handmade aluminum lockdown tab sticking out of the back. I made too many of those and sold them to the university for the computer labs. LOL
02:52 AM enleth: Loetmichel: check if they make a "brake pedal" aftermarket accessory for that BMW, supposedly some models can fit that
02:53 AM Loetmichel: enleth: i have one. use it not enough it seems though ;)
03:39 AM Loetmichel: enleth: i think a cruise control button steering wheel and a few minutes with a laptop on the ECU may be cheaper though
03:39 AM Loetmichel: makes it a lot less likely to overspeed accidentally
04:48 AM Tom_L: morning
04:57 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:16 AM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
06:33 AM Loetmichel: *giggle*... wife of boss just toured a few chinese women through the company, possibly some subcontractors. every second door or so stayed closed however and she said "yin!"... googled it: it means secret. interesting way to learn mandarin ;)
07:37 AM JT-Cave: 24°F
09:43 AM roycroft: we have a flood watch for our coastal rivers and our local rivers
09:44 AM roycroft: and i'm not surprised at all - it was almost swampy yesterday
09:59 AM * robinsz stares at new mesa card that arrived in the post
09:59 AM robinsz: very tasty
10:45 AM roycroft: today is the day for one of my favorite year-end summaries - fivethirtyeight.com's annual weirdest charts article
10:45 AM roycroft: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/our-51-best-and-weirdest-charts-of-2021/
11:16 AM JT-Cave: robinsz, yippie
11:16 AM roycroft: grr
11:16 AM roycroft: and here i thought today was starting well
11:16 AM roycroft: we moved a customer to our new mail server, and i assigned her a new password, as her old one was so simple it could have been guessed by a cat
11:17 AM roycroft: she just said "i changed my password and now i cannot get my mail"
11:17 AM roycroft: and i explained to her that she cannot change the password on the client and have it work on the server
11:18 AM roycroft: she told me that i need to make the server accept her password, and when i asked her to give me the password she wants she said "no - you told me never to tell anyone my password. just make the server accept what i tell it"
11:18 AM roycroft: then she complained to my boss that i've locked her out of her emai
11:18 AM roycroft: l
11:21 AM JT-Cave: you get all the fun
11:30 AM roycroft: in case anyone ever wonders why i want to get out of the it world, this is a good example
11:45 AM roycroft: wrench retrieval is so much easier than dealing with irrational minds :)
01:00 PM robinsz: JT-Cave: delevidered as expected, no duty or taxes.
01:08 PM JT-Shop: awesome
01:22 PM robinsz: Rpi download in progress ...
01:22 PM robinsz: assuming I can remember where I put my micro SD card collection ...
01:23 PM robinsz: and I can find an ethernet crossover cable
01:24 PM aaroncnc: not cnc related but i just put one a 110v heated pad on my desk chair that covers the seat and back. I wish i would have done this years ago. my office is 67f and i am warm. no need to heat the entire room anymore!
01:29 PM JT-Shop: robinsz, crossover cable for?
01:55 PM unterhausen: mesa cards generally don't need crossover cables
02:10 PM JT-Shop: my buddy down at the plastic factory handed me a christmas gife as I left this morning
02:11 PM JT-Shop: gift even
02:13 PM JT-Shop: https://www.amazon.com/Knowledge-Double-wlled-Stinless-Insulted-Trveling/dp/B087371VCV
02:22 PM XXCoder: NICE! https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5145400/
02:22 PM XXCoder: handle that uses collets for holding tools
02:22 PM XXCoder: I dont know what standard size it is, might be er11. asked in comments
02:29 PM JT-Shop: not sure how useful that would be in a shop
02:29 PM XXCoder: would be useful for some deburring ops
02:31 PM JT-Shop: https://www.amazon.com/Noga-Heavy-Duty-Deburr-blades/dp/B001O5YSXU
02:31 PM roycroft: that reminds me - i need to go download some files from thingiverse to print the fan mounts for my new hot end
02:31 PM JT-Shop: I use that
02:32 PM XXCoder: I hav noga also
02:32 PM roycroft: i got the noga internal deburring set a while back, and was that ever a great addition to the shop
02:32 PM XXCoder: and yep its amazing
02:33 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/NOGA-Reversible-Tool-Holder-Set/dp/B001VXQ61C/
02:33 PM roycroft: three sizes of that, in a nice case
02:33 PM XXCoder: er11 collet one would be interesting since you can use basically any tool, like drill, chamfer tool, reamer
02:33 PM XXCoder: thats one I dont have. I want to have one, but since I doubt I will work soon, Im not buying yet
02:34 PM * JT-Shop noticed that break minute is up and stokes the fire for the sick hen and heads to the other shop to clear a space big enough to build the frame
02:56 PM Tom_L: how's ms clucker in the shop?
02:58 PM JT-Shop: hasn't eaten or drank anything today... :(
03:00 PM Tom_L: :/
03:00 PM roguish[m]: JT-Shop: hey, break time is over..... back to work....
03:38 PM miss0r: Can someone tell me what I am missing here? Apparently these two switching mosfets here cannot function when they are both connected to the same heatsink. aka; either Gate, Source or drain is connected to the body. But I cannot seem to find it mentioned in the datasheet: https://docs.rs-online.com/1146/0900766b812cfb73.pdf
03:38 PM miss0r: Can someone please point out where I left my glasses?
03:43 PM rs[m]: the tab could be isolated
03:43 PM rs[m]: put a mica isolator between FET and heatsink if unsure.
03:44 PM miss0r: I'm not unsure anymore - both bolted to heatsink; the bench powersupply is current limited. Both off the heatsink everything works fine
03:44 PM miss0r: It needs an insulator - I'm just wondering if anyone else can see something I missed in the datasheet? :S
03:48 PM roycroft: did you look on the top of your head?
03:48 PM rs[m]: I don't see anything in the datasheet, but that doesn't say much
03:49 PM rs[m]: it is probably connected either to the back of the mosfet ("bulk") or to source
03:49 PM aaroncnc: the tab is linked to drain iirc
03:51 PM miss0r: I've seen it mentioned in alot of datasheets. Naive me just thought, with no mentioning of it, it must be isolated...
03:52 PM rs[m]: https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/82110/IRF/IRL640.html seems to mention the tab as pin 4, connected to DRAIN
03:53 PM roycroft: i'm having a deja vu moment
03:53 PM roycroft: last year right before christmas my macbook pro died
03:54 PM miss0r: rs[m]: so it does
03:54 PM roycroft: we ordered a replacement (refurbished, same model), but i did not get it until mid-january
03:54 PM roycroft: the replacement just died
03:54 PM roycroft: it came with a three year warranty, but i have to ship this one back and wait for the replacement, which will probably arrive in mid-january
03:56 PM aaroncnc: miss0r, i am always one to test with my meter first. i have seen so many fake chips. sometimes you have to use them but its best to know.
03:57 PM rs[m]: seems tab connected to drain is the "usual" connection. my thought was bulk is usually connected to source if i'm not mistaken, and the bulk is the case of the chip, so... but seems this line of reasoning is wrong at leas for power-hexfets.
03:57 PM aaroncnc: i know when i buy any solid state relays i always tear one apart and look up the chips to see how to use them as they are so often fake
03:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just derate for Chinese Amps
03:59 PM miss0r: yeah well. Nothing some insulation can't fix.
03:59 PM Tom_L: fake is the new real now
03:59 PM miss0r: My home brew'n ZVS flyback friver is working now. But I run into thermal issues realy fast :]
04:00 PM rs[m]: LN2
04:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: howto cool 10,000J?
04:00 PM miss0r: hehe. that seems a bit over the top, rs[m]
04:01 PM miss0r: well, *IF* I could cool this properly, I would be able to charge a 4.7mF cap to 450 volts in around 10 seconds, it seems
04:01 PM rs[m]: CaptHindsight[m]: i would say that depends on the temperature and the timeframe
04:02 PM JT-Shop: liquid nitrogen
04:02 PM miss0r: JT-Shop: rs[m] beat you to that suggestion. and I still find it a bit over the top :D
04:02 PM JT-Shop: :)
04:02 PM miss0r: Only a bit, mind you :D
04:03 PM * JT-Shop thinks I'll knock off in 1/2 hour
04:03 PM rs[m]: miss0r: use faster transistors. SiC.
04:03 PM Tom_L: this from the guy building a rail gun
04:03 PM miss0r: Tom_L: What are you hinting at ? hehehe
04:04 PM miss0r: Tom_L: This what the *finished* prototype looks like at the moment: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12ossmGEDDEkJJsINhCI_m3ubaJADa3Hg?usp=sharing
04:05 PM miss0r: Now I am advancing from 47.6volts to 450 volts, and from 3 stages to 10 stages. *exciting times*
04:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: elephant defibrillator
04:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: spot welder
04:06 PM Tom_L: you wind the coils yourself?
04:07 PM miss0r: yes
04:07 PM Tom_L: cnc coil winder?
04:07 PM miss0r: I wish :D
04:08 PM miss0r: I'm doing it in the lathe(NOT USING THE MOTOR) running it in free gear, the spool of wire is sat on a bar in the quick change tool post, and then I just spin away, counting as I go
04:09 PM miss0r: much the same level of intertainment as watching paint dry, but an audio book helps
04:11 PM Tom_L: well, i was gonna mention that center one is a couple winds short... better check it again
04:12 PM miss0r: :] I'm always glad to bring people a good laugh on my behalf ;)
04:12 PM Tom_L: good sport
04:24 PM miss0r: well. Even with a nice and beefy heatsink, it still tabs out at 'round 387ish volts. Then it gets too hot foo fast for the heatsink to take it away... I guess I need to switch faster
04:26 PM roycroft: so i need to turn an offset bolt on my lathe i.e. a bolt with a cam for a shoulder
04:26 PM roycroft: i do not have a 4 jaw that i can mount on it
04:26 PM roycroft: does anyone know a clever way to do this with a 3 jaw?
04:27 PM rs[m]: drill/tap an off-center hole into some round scrap peace, screw the bolt in
04:27 PM miss0r: hehe, that could work. Or you could just do it quick'n dirty and put a spacer between one of the three jaws and the bolt. (potential sling hazard)
04:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tack weld spacer to 3-jaw
04:29 PM roycroft: i like rs[m]'s solution
04:29 PM roycroft: it's simple and straightforward
04:29 PM miss0r: also by far the most sane idea listed so far
04:29 PM roycroft: and i need to thread the end of the bolt anyway
04:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: cast bolt into resin for offset foxture
04:29 PM rs[m]: you have to make sure the bolt doesn't unscrew itself while turning
04:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: foxture/fixture
04:30 PM roycroft: the thread will be a standard clockwise thread
04:30 PM roycroft: the lathe will spin anti-clockwise
04:30 PM roycroft: i don't see a problem here
04:30 PM roycroft: the turning action will only act to tighten it further
04:30 PM rs[m]: i'm making too many off-by-one errors to have any opinion on that ;)
04:31 PM rs[m]: it should work
04:33 PM roycroft: i still have to repair my lathe before i can try that
04:33 PM roycroft: but now that i have a potential solution i can continue with my design work
04:37 PM JT-Shop: https://www.amazon.com/Noga-Heavy-Duty-Deburr-blades/dp/B001O5YSXU
04:38 PM JT-Shop: https://pasteboard.co/J4H95Me79eUP.jpg
04:38 PM JT-Shop: https://pasteboard.co/J4H95Me79eUP.jpg
04:39 PM JT-Shop: that whirlpool frame is going to be very heavy with all that thick wall tubing
04:39 PM JT-Shop: https://pasteboard.co/gA8LQ2i3bbPu.jpg
04:39 PM JT-Shop: jeez I'm having trouble copy and pasting url's tonight
04:46 PM JT-Shop: wow these M3 slotted setscrews are only 2mm long... I'd hate to make them
05:02 PM roycroft: i have some m2.5 screws that are only 4mm long, and yeah, they would be difficult to make
05:03 PM roycroft: but they're pan head screws, not set screws
05:04 PM roycroft: there was just a 6.2 magnitude earthquake off the cost of northern california
05:04 PM roycroft: north mendocino county - it was felt as far away as san francisco and chico
05:05 PM roycroft: and the earthquake warning system worked - folks got text messages about 15 seconds before the shaking began
05:05 PM roycroft: that's awesome
05:07 PM roycroft: the big one was *just* off the coast
05:07 PM roycroft: and most of the aftershocks so far have been on shore
05:40 PM robinsz: @JT-Shop: cable to connect the Pi to the Mesa card, crossover cable is the easiest.
05:43 PM roycroft: it doesn't matter, robinsz
05:43 PM roycroft: straight or crossover
05:43 PM roycroft: assuming you're talking about an ethernet connection
05:45 PM Tom_L: roycroft, if the offset 'thing' didn't have threads simply slot the hole and that would allow for clamping down on the roundbar
05:46 PM robinsz: @roycroft, ethernet cable between the Pi and the Mesa card
05:46 PM roycroft: robinsz: then it does not matter
05:46 PM Tom_L: no crossover cable needed
05:46 PM robinsz: autosensing?
05:46 PM roycroft: the mesa card will detect what you use
05:46 PM Tom_L: yessir
05:46 PM robinsz: neat
05:46 PM roycroft: and it will do what one would expect it to do
05:46 PM roycroft: that is, it will work
05:46 PM Tom_L: it's mesa... what did you expect?
05:46 PM robinsz: fan blooming tastic
05:47 PM robinsz: well, that is impressive
05:48 PM robinsz: I'm always impressed with your cards, this is my .. 3rd I think
05:49 PM roycroft: they are pcw's cards
05:49 PM roycroft: and they are extremely boring
05:49 PM roycroft: because they just do what they are supposed to do, and don't give you grief
05:50 PM robinsz: they do indeed
05:50 PM robinsz: ah yes, pcw ... I get mixed up
05:50 PM robinsz: I have two running servos, this is the first running steppers
05:51 PM Tom_L: gecko are also made that way.. just work no bs
05:51 PM robinsz: yep
05:51 PM roycroft: i have gecko drives as well as mesa boards
05:52 PM robinsz: to god knows how many geckos I have
05:52 PM roycroft: you don't hang out on this channel for over a decade and not know wha the most boring hardware is :)
05:52 PM robinsz: must be ... at least a dozen
05:58 PM robinsz: a decade?
05:59 PM * flyback bites miss0r
06:01 PM robinsz: I forget when I started with this ... probably around hmm ... I suspect around '99 ish ... hard to say
06:06 PM roycroft: it was the mid-naughties when i got interested in cnc stuff
06:07 PM Tom_L: yeah it was a long time ago for me as well
06:11 PM roycroft: back when the project was still called emc
06:12 PM Tom_L: yes
06:15 PM roycroft: back when people were more civil towards other outwith irc than on irc :)
06:15 PM roycroft: towards each other, rather
06:32 PM Tom_L: Back when a hoe was a hoe
06:32 PM Tom_L: Coke was a coke
06:32 PM Tom_L: And crack's what you were doing
06:32 PM Tom_L: When you were cracking jokes
06:32 PM Tom_L: Back when a screw was a screw
06:32 PM Tom_L: The wind was all that blew....
07:05 PM t4nk_freenode: lol.... *sigh* you're right Tom_L .. I just blew a LED-lamp
07:06 PM t4nk_freenode: I seem to be amazingly out of luck when it comes to lamps
07:06 PM XXCoder: ouch heh
07:06 PM XXCoder: what happened?
07:07 PM t4nk_freenode: I have so many lamps throughout the room.. but somehow I have nothing to point where I'm soldering
07:07 PM t4nk_freenode: so I had this led lamp, consisting of a lot of small leds
07:07 PM t4nk_freenode: but it normally runs on batteries, and that's rubbish of course
07:08 PM t4nk_freenode: so I made a power cable; I think I just fed it too much
07:09 PM t4nk_freenode: but this is the second incident in a few days, last week I tried a similar thing with an LED 'TL-tube'
07:09 PM t4nk_freenode: but that ran at 220v, when I plugged it in... fuses blew
07:10 PM XXCoder: hmm wonder if you made source match sum of amp and volt
07:10 PM XXCoder: whatever it may be
07:11 PM t4nk_freenode: I need to come up with a decent solution
07:11 PM t4nk_freenode: the only thing that really works is my phone as a microscope, I have it on a stand
07:11 PM t4nk_freenode: and the flash light is working nicely
07:12 PM t4nk_freenode: but the batteries drain pretty quickly
07:13 PM roycroft: well this was a major accomplishment
07:13 PM roycroft: when we moved out of the data center last april i hauled all my personally-owned servers/switches/etc. home
07:13 PM roycroft: some of it went in the server rack and went online
07:14 PM roycroft: the rest got put in a pile in a corner of my living room, with the intent to catalog, refurbish, and sell what was saleable
07:14 PM roycroft: and donate the rest
07:14 PM roycroft: needless to say, that pile has been sitting there since april
07:14 PM roycroft: but it's now in a corner of my library, a room i don't use very often
07:15 PM roycroft: and it's actually all cataloged onw
07:15 PM XXCoder: i need to start working on converting my library to ebooks
07:15 PM XXCoder: I need room
07:15 PM roycroft: yes, i should cull my physical library
07:16 PM roycroft: there are close to 5000 books there now
07:16 PM roycroft: all the shelves are full, and there are piles of books on the floor
07:16 PM XXCoder: dang and I thought my library of 400+ books is crazy
07:16 PM roycroft: i have books going back to when i was in my teens
07:16 PM XXCoder: I have few thousand ebooks, and roughly half read already
07:17 PM roycroft: and while i've gotten pretty good at purging things generally, i have a really hard time letting go of a book
07:17 PM XXCoder: indeed
07:18 PM roycroft: i have enough books that i felt it worth my while to properly catalog them and put the catalog in a database
07:18 PM XXCoder: I love librarything
07:18 PM roycroft: they're all labeled and arranged nicely
07:18 PM XXCoder: for ebooks I use calibre
07:18 PM roycroft: i use loc call numbers, btw
07:18 PM roycroft: none of the dewey shmooey crap for me
07:19 PM XXCoder: dewey dont really work when most of your book is in similiar area
07:19 PM roycroft: dewey never made much sense to me anyway
07:20 PM roycroft: but my mix of books is different to what one would find in a typical public library
07:21 PM roycroft: i've also done most of my research in university libraries, and in this country they all use loc, not dewey
07:22 PM roycroft: so i'm much more familiar with loc
07:22 PM roycroft: but i'd say that with 400 books you can manually arrange them on a couple shelving units and be able to find what you want fairly quickly
07:23 PM XXCoder: yeah. i guess it depends on scale a LOT
07:23 PM roycroft: when the number gets much above that it's a lot harder to keep them organized and to find things if you don't have a cataloging system
07:24 PM roycroft: even if they're cataloged and shelved in order, it can be hard to find what you want sometimes
07:24 PM roycroft: often, probably most of the time for me, at least, i'll search the catalog for something i think i want
07:24 PM roycroft: write down the call number(s) for the results
07:24 PM robinsz: stupid question, on the linuxcnc rpi install ...
07:25 PM robinsz: how do you get the onscreen kbd up?
07:25 PM roycroft: and then scan the shelves near those call numbers, usually finding things i wasn't exactly searching for, but will be useful for my research
07:25 PM roycroft: i run my pis headless, but when i need to see the console i just plug a display into an hdmi port and a keyboard into a usb port
07:26 PM robinsz: you run linuxcnc headless?
07:26 PM robinsz: anyway, whatever
07:26 PM roycroft: yes
07:26 PM roycroft: i vnc to the pi via wifi using a laptop
07:26 PM robinsz: I just need to set the wifi password
07:27 PM roycroft: i don't want to have to make room for a display and keyboard right at the machine
07:27 PM robinsz: how do I get the onscreen kbd?
07:27 PM roycroft: but i can set a laptop right next to it
07:27 PM roycroft: oh, onscreen keyboard
07:27 PM roycroft: that i don't know
07:27 PM robinsz: ok
07:27 PM roycroft: sorry
07:28 PM roycroft: i'm assuming you have a touch screen
07:28 PM robinsz: yes
07:28 PM robinsz: standard pi touchscreen
07:28 PM roycroft: i think most folks use touchy or one of the other lcnc touch screen interfaces
07:28 PM roycroft: and just press the buttons on the screen
07:28 PM roycroft: and plug in a keyboard when they need a keyboard
07:29 PM robinsz: so, do you know how to get the onscreen kbd up?
07:30 PM roycroft: no, i said already that i don't, sorry
07:30 PM robinsz: ok
07:30 PM roycroft: i need to buy a bunch of hard drives for this project i'm working on
07:30 PM roycroft: 1TB nas drives
07:31 PM roycroft: the wd ones i like are $44.99 each
07:31 PM roycroft: but they have quantity prices
07:31 PM roycroft: if i buy 115 of them i can get them for only $59.57 each
07:32 PM * roycroft may not be the best at arithmetic of anyone who has ever lived, but suspects that is probably not a very good value
07:33 PM * t4nk_freenode puts away his glasses and calms down; he has not gone mad
07:35 PM * roycroft notes that a person gone mad is not a good judge of his having gone mad
07:36 PM * t4nk_freenode puts his glasses back on
07:41 PM t4nk_freenode: well, I'm convinced that the really mad person is not bothered with the question at all
07:44 PM t4nk_freenode: well, I'll be getting back to my cnc in a bit
07:45 PM t4nk_freenode: heh.. as I was measuring backlash, the x-axis suddenly shifted, that is.. amount of backlash doubled
07:46 PM t4nk_freenode: it seems one of the collars has come loose
07:46 PM t4nk_freenode: youknow, this is a result of me fitting those new leadscrews
07:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: have you heard of "but we make it up in volume"
07:48 PM roycroft: i see this kind of quantity pricing all the time
07:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: new slogan "buy more, pay more"
07:49 PM t4nk_freenode: hehe
07:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how they encourage lower sales volumes
07:49 PM roycroft: what i really want to know is, why are all these diy cnc'ers buiding their machines so massively?
07:49 PM roycroft: i'm watching a video right now by a guy who is using multiple 1" thick aluminium plates to build the z axis for his little router
07:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what happens if you order 10x but 10 different times? Do you get the higher or lower price each?
07:50 PM t4nk_freenode: heh
07:50 PM roycroft: i'm planning on using 1/2" thick plates myself, and even wonder if 3/8" would be enough
07:50 PM Tom_L: robinsz, Once you are on the desktop of your Raspberry Pi, click the icon in the top-left hand corner of the screen. ...
07:50 PM Tom_L: Next, hover over “Accessories” (1.), ...
07:50 PM Tom_L: The virtual keyboard should now be displayed on your Raspberry Pi's desktop.
07:50 PM Tom_L: says google
07:50 PM * roycroft wonders if that will even work
07:51 PM roycroft: isn't a rpi touch screen smaller than an iphone screen?
07:51 PM Tom_L: dunno, i don't own one
07:51 PM roycroft: i find it almost impossible to use the iphone on screen keyboard
07:51 PM robinsz: @Tom_L, thats on a standard Raspbian though, dead easy on standard Raspbian
07:51 PM roycroft: i wish i could easily just plug a keyboard into the phone on the rare occasions when i eed to type a lot of stuff
07:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://i.imgur.com/gLwOHAg.png because they can't machine 2" alu https://i.imgur.com/gLwOHAg.png
07:52 PM roycroft: which is generally when i first set up the phone, like i did yesterday
07:52 PM robinsz: Tom_L someone has removed it from the LinuxCNC menu build though
07:52 PM Tom_L: roycroft, mass helps with vibrations
07:52 PM roycroft: i still have to set up all the vpn configs, and my typical vpn connection has a psk that's 30-60 characters long, and quite random
07:52 PM roycroft: tom_l: sure, to a point
07:53 PM t4nk_freenode: well, roycroft, I sure wish I had made mine from aluminium
07:53 PM robinsz: I'll have to do the password in textfile thing I guess
07:53 PM roycroft: but when your having to move those thick plates, you'll need bigger motors
07:53 PM t4nk_freenode: most probably, yes
07:53 PM t4nk_freenode: I sure wish I had bigger motors too ;)
07:53 PM roycroft: and your machine gets bigger, too
07:53 PM t4nk_freenode: and... I sure wish my machine was a little bigger too
07:54 PM roycroft: it's not like a milling machine, where most of the machine is stationary
07:54 PM t4nk_freenode: lol
07:54 PM t4nk_freenode: could you please stop now?
07:54 PM Tom_L: make it so
07:54 PM Tom_L: make it bigger
07:54 PM roycroft: i'm trying to design a machine with a work area of 2'x4', and trying to keep the footprint of the machine as close to 2'x4' as possible
07:55 PM roycroft: a quarter of an inch here, a half inch there, really matters
07:55 PM Tom_L: t4nk_freenode, what steppers do you have?
07:55 PM t4nk_freenode: I currently have nema 17 steppes, rated 2.0A, 2.8APeak, 24V
07:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: requires steel or 7xxx alu
07:56 PM Tom_L: maybe ok for a glue printer
07:56 PM roycroft: overengineering is a real thing
07:56 PM t4nk_freenode: they're relatively strong I think, but... useless in the end
07:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: depends on the accuracy and speeds required
07:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and how long it should hold accuracy and speed
07:57 PM Tom_L: 7x is harder than 6061
07:57 PM t4nk_freenode: one of the biggest hurdles for me is what kind of aluminium to use.. I mean I can buy V-slot, which would be handy to fix things on, and perhaps use wheels; That way I wouldn't need any more rails
07:58 PM t4nk_freenode: but... I think it is asking for a feable construction yet again
07:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 6xxx alu encased in epoxy granite
07:58 PM t4nk_freenode: if I buy c-slot, or what it's called, then I need additional rails
07:59 PM t4nk_freenode: while that seems a very nice solution.. I have to be honest with myself, and I don't know if that's within my grasp
07:59 PM t4nk_freenode: (the granite that is)
08:00 PM t4nk_freenode: but I can tell you that I'm craving a better build more and more
08:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 4140/42 steel tube in acrylic concrete
08:00 PM Tom_L: https://allcncrouter.com/products/tabletop-cnc-vmc-mill-frame-kit
08:00 PM Tom_L: $$
08:01 PM XXCoder: interestig
08:01 PM XXCoder: theres always cast ion engine parts mill
08:01 PM XXCoder: saw such project, its interesting
08:02 PM t4nk_freenode: it's nice, but really expensive
08:03 PM t4nk_freenode: I'd like to build a machine that could fit a guitar body perhaps, seems like a nice project
08:03 PM XXCoder: sounds like router is best
08:04 PM t4nk_freenode: when you say router, you're talking wood working , when you say mill, you're talking metal
08:04 PM t4nk_freenode: you guys must have seen this 'MakerB' guy, right? now that's very nice too
08:04 PM Tom_L: my router connects me to the interweb
08:05 PM XXCoder: first metal lathe. 1751. fun video https://youtu.be/djB9oK6pkbA
08:06 PM t4nk_freenode: it's so amazing how humanity got to 'precision'
08:07 PM XXCoder: t4nk_freenode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNRnrn5DE58
08:07 PM XXCoder: origins of precison
08:08 PM roycroft: that video has been removed, xxcodeer
08:08 PM XXCoder: odd because I can see it just fine
08:08 PM * t4nk_freenode puts his glasses back on, just to be sure, but it runs here too ;)
08:08 PM roycroft: i tried it twice and teh youtube told me it had been removed
08:08 PM Tom_L: robinsz, you didn't donate enoufh funds to yt..
08:08 PM Tom_L: works here
08:08 PM Tom_L: not robinsz, roycroft
08:09 PM roycroft: maybe they know i say bad things about google
08:09 PM Tom_L: they're watching you
08:09 PM XXCoder: try anon mode
08:09 PM t4nk_freenode: ah yeah, I saw this in another vid... trying to make it straight
08:09 PM t4nk_freenode: flat
08:09 PM t4nk_freenode: with the paint and such
08:09 PM XXCoder: robertz has good video on that
08:09 PM XXCoder: he flattens big chunk of steel
08:10 PM t4nk_freenode: probably takes a lot of devotion and industry
08:10 PM XXCoder: certainly lot of work
08:10 PM t4nk_freenode: all the more impressive
08:13 PM roycroft: i'm finishing up moving/upgrading/reorganizing my virtual machines on my imac, and i just ran across a linuxcnc install on ubuntu from 2011
08:14 PM roycroft: the problem is i can't log into it, because i have no idea what i was using as a password in 2011
08:14 PM Tom_L: ask that lady client today... she knows
08:15 PM XXCoder: roy thankfully you should be able to mount it on other computer than alter admin password
08:16 PM roycroft: i can boot single-user
08:16 PM roycroft: or i can just nuke it
08:16 PM roycroft: which is what i'll probably do
08:17 PM roycroft: yeah, especially since i just found another one running ubuntu 10.04 squeeze/sid and who knows what version of linuxcnc
08:17 PM roycroft: it says "welcom to emc2"
08:17 PM roycroft: so it's not recent :)
08:18 PM roycroft: 2.4.3
08:19 PM * roycroft thinks he might keep that vm around for hysterical reasons
08:22 PM robinsz: well, this is becoming troublemsome
08:22 PM robinsz: set up the wifi, activated ssh and ssh'd in ... but can't get the vncserver to run, because of an expired certificate
08:23 PM robinsz: I think it might be related to xrdp
08:23 PM robinsz: <11> 2021-12-21T02:21:07.234Z linuxcnc Xvnc[5276]: VendorConfig: Error in Certificate "CN=GlobalSign,O=GlobalSign,OU=GlobalSign Root CA - R2": X.509 Error: Certificate expired
08:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: 51 years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9_33Y_hlsI
08:38 PM robinsz: so, this is a fresh rpi install of Linuxcnc ... ive ssh'd in, run vncserver and tried to connect a viewer from the latop
08:38 PM robinsz: no go ... I *think* it is that expired cert
08:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: why we stopped being able to buy good plastic model glue
08:39 PM roycroft: because the glue certificate expired?
08:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hold on still sniffing
08:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: robinsz: was the certificate generated by you or just found on the install?
08:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: robinsz: are you trying to view in Linux or Windows?
08:47 PM roycroft: i don't recall having that problem when i set up vnc to my rpi4
08:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it sounds like he's running LCNC on his Rpi4 and is trying to use a laptop to view
08:48 PM roycroft: apt -y install tightvncserver
08:48 PM roycroft: that's the only line in my changelog for the rpi4 that has anything to do with the vnc server
08:49 PM roycroft: and i don't remember having to do anything after installed it except start it up, set a password, and connect to it
08:49 PM robinsz: CaptHindsight[m], its whatever is set up on the linuxcnc rpi image
08:49 PM roycroft: unfortunately the rpi i'm discussing is not online at the moment
08:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: robinsz: never used VNC on the Rpi, try roycroft's suggestion
08:50 PM robinsz: @roycroft, eitherway, the realvnc viewer I usuall use can't even connect to it
08:51 PM roycroft: i'm running on debian 10.11 on that rpi
08:51 PM robinsz: im inclined to not install alternatives
08:51 PM robinsz: @roycroft, is it the linuxcnc distribution image?
08:51 PM roycroft: and it looks like i did not us a distro image
08:51 PM roycroft: i built linuxcnc on another machine and then installed it
08:51 PM robinsz: probably not relevant then
08:52 PM robinsz: realvnc normally works great on raspbian
08:52 PM robinsz: this is somethign specific to the linuxcnc distro
08:52 PM roycroft: i don't know how the linuxcnc distro generates its certificates, but if it uses letsencrypt, which is plausible and probably likely, those certs expire in 90 days
08:53 PM roycroft: and the linuxcnc distro is not usually kept that up-to-date
08:56 PM roycroft: my pi, whose configuration would probably would not help you anyway, is installed in a control panel which is on my electronics bench at the moment
08:56 PM roycroft: and i don't have 220vac mains to the electronics bench, so i can't power it up even if i wanted to
08:57 PM roycroft: well i could, but i don't want to go find a 50' 220v extension cord right now and pull it over to that bench
09:38 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: Ha ha! I've only got to run a 220V cord 20' to get anywhere in the shop. And I just put together a new 25', #10, 220V service cord yesterday. LOL
09:40 PM Bleepshop: That reminds me, I need to get some more Nema-6-20 connectors.
09:46 PM robinsz: Oh well I give up for now, I did a full apt-get update and upgrade
09:46 PM robinsz: cert still expired
09:48 PM Bleepshop: robinsz: Check the date/time on both machines?
09:48 PM robinsz: both?
09:49 PM robinsz: I only have one pi
09:49 PM * Bleepshop has had issues with clocks being too fa rout of sync.
09:49 PM robinsz: pi time is bang on
09:49 PM Bleepshop: Remote clock on the Pi and the local clock on the viewer.
09:50 PM robinsz: pi time is bang on
09:50 PM robinsz: viewer clock is irrelevant, the pi never opens a listening port
09:50 PM robinsz: no server on port 5900
09:51 PM Bleepshop: Firewall issue then
09:51 PM robinsz: no
09:51 PM robinsz: no server
09:51 PM robinsz: running on port 5900
09:51 PM * Bleepshop tries to remember the Debian voodoo.
09:52 PM robinsz: realvnc won't run because some cert is expired
09:52 PM robinsz: <11> 2021-12-21T03:52:40.705Z linuxcnc Xvnc[2417]: VendorConfig: Error in Certificate "CN=GlobalSign,O=GlobalSign,OU=GlobalSign Root CA - R2": X.509 Error: Certificate expired
09:56 PM Bleepshop: robinsz: try 'apt list --installed | grep xorgxrdp '
09:57 PM robinsz: xorgxrdp/oldstable,now 1:0.2.9-1 armhf [installed,automatic]
09:57 PM robinsz: I think its Xvnc thats having the problem
09:59 PM robinsz: I need to go to bed
10:00 PM robinsz: night guys
10:07 PM * Bleepshop goes on a mass-media induced rant...
10:09 PM Bleepshop: Damn you Speilberg! Where's my hover conversion? And my Mr. Fusion? And my dehydrated pizza that looks like a bagel? Damn you to Springfield Oregon! ;D
10:19 PM XXCoder: wheres my mr. fusion
10:20 PM XXCoder: it'd revolutize world
10:20 PM XXCoder: also warm it up, but less than carbon generating power plants
10:39 PM t4nk_freenode: had another look at my lamp; some resistor blew, a big fat one too. couldn't find a resistor marked black black black to replace it, so first I had one abit too heavy, then one a bit too light.. but I'll leave it in there, see how long it lasts
10:40 PM XXCoder: theres tend to be range of tolence, but dunno how much
10:59 PM XXCoder: aw that er-like collet tool definitely dont use any er collet standard
10:59 PM XXCoder: still awesome idea though
10:59 PM XXCoder: annoying that "download all" is broken
11:02 PM Bleepshop: t4nk_freenode: Black, Black, Black on a resistor is 0 ohms.... Try a jumper wire. LOL
11:03 PM roycroft: your black black black resister used to be other colors before it got too hot
11:04 PM Bleepshop: 0 ohm resistor is a cheaters jumper. They got popular after SMDs because you can use them to jump a trace at right angles.
11:05 PM roycroft: a true 0 ohm resistor does not exist except at very very low temperatures
11:07 PM * roycroft is going through the exercises in his solidworks text, in an attempt to refresh his skills and be able to draw faster, and remembers why he struggled with the course
11:07 PM roycroft: the exercises are missing some critical dimensions
11:07 PM roycroft: some are outright wrong
11:08 PM * Bleepshop wonders if he can construct a water flow switch based on a teeter-totter raingauge.
11:08 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: And that IS the test. LOL
11:09 PM roycroft: it's actually not
11:09 PM roycroft: it's impossible to draw the exercise problems without filling things in
11:09 PM roycroft: which means making stuff up
11:09 PM roycroft: perhaps in a 3rd or 4th course, those kinds of exercises might be appropriate
11:10 PM roycroft: but for a first term course, where the object is to learn the software tools, the exercises should not have errors or omissions
11:10 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: And if you indulge in Procto-Theological-Numerology you can pull a number out of you ass and pray it's right. LOL
11:13 PM roycroft: since i don't care if my wheel rim is perfectly scaled/sized, i don't care about these errors in the text right now
11:13 PM roycroft: i'm just trying to refresh the workflow
11:14 PM roycroft: i know parametric drawing tools are more intuitive for most folks and are very efficient to use, but i come from a background of using 2d cad tools
11:14 PM roycroft: it takes a different way of thinking to use a parametric drawing tool
11:14 PM roycroft: that's part of why freecad has had such a steep learning curve for me
11:14 PM roycroft: not only is it parametric, it's weird parametri
11:14 PM roycroft: c
11:15 PM XXCoder: took me while too, and I started from visual rending modeling at best. it was years before I last made visual rending then too
11:15 PM XXCoder: I downloaded many random part prints and recreated em in freecad
11:15 PM XXCoder: learned a lot
11:16 PM roycroft: well this text has 18 chapters
11:16 PM roycroft: i started doing the exercises on saturday
11:16 PM roycroft: and i'm on chapter 6 already
11:17 PM XXCoder: nice. is it free ebook or?
11:17 PM roycroft: no, it's the one i used for my solidworks class
11:17 PM XXCoder: oh models book?
11:17 PM roycroft: solidworks 2012 part 1 - basic tools, by paul tran
11:17 PM XXCoder: cool
11:17 PM roycroft: i think it's about $2 on amazon now, though
11:17 PM roycroft: but it cost me over $100 at the time
11:17 PM XXCoder: yeah its ricious
11:18 PM XXCoder: worse one I ever paid was over $250 for book
11:18 PM XXCoder: got $20 for it
11:19 PM roycroft: for software instruction they really have to come out with a new version almost every year, because software gets updated often, and the text has to match the current version
11:19 PM roycroft: and the cost is somewhat justified, because they're printing a relatively small number of books, since they can only be used for a year
11:19 PM roycroft: the real scam is in things like history books
11:20 PM roycroft: an author writes a history of the civil war text
11:20 PM roycroft: it should not need to be revised for a decade or two
11:20 PM XXCoder: well unless theres bad error
11:20 PM roycroft: but the publishers insist on a new edition every couple years, so that students can't buy used copies
11:20 PM roycroft: and how are they changed?
11:20 PM roycroft: the questions/exercises/quizes at the back of the chapter change
11:21 PM roycroft: they reorder the items
11:21 PM t4nk_freenode: Bleepshop, :) I was joing
11:21 PM t4nk_freenode: although it really was blackblackblack after it blew :b
11:21 PM roycroft: so when you get assigned questions 1,3, 9, and 13 for homework, if you have an old edition you are answering the wrong questions
11:22 PM roycroft: i took machining classes at the local community college here in eugene
11:22 PM roycroft: the college had a policy of sticking with a revision of a text for as many years as the bookstore could find enough used copies for all the students taking the class that term
11:23 PM roycroft: it started causing problems after a few years, because the textbook publishers would no longer publish texts by faculty at that school
11:23 PM roycroft: and several faculty members published texts
11:23 PM XXCoder: i had couple teachers "publish" their own
11:24 PM XXCoder: very cheap from printer, just $10 or so
11:24 PM XXCoder: it was protest on college books costs
11:24 PM roycroft: it's a lot easier to do these days
11:24 PM roycroft: with so much content online
11:24 PM roycroft: a professor basically has to write a sylabus with a bunch of hyperlinks
11:25 PM roycroft: it's pretty funny how all that works
11:25 PM roycroft: when i was in grade shool through high school, the same textbooks were used over and over for years
11:25 PM roycroft: and the teachers would develop their own content to supplement the texts
11:26 PM roycroft: because the schools had to pay for the books, and the schools had no money
11:26 PM roycroft: but in college, it's a new edition every year, because the school doesn't pay for the books
11:26 PM roycroft: the students pay for the books, and the students have no money
11:26 PM roycroft: so they go into debt
11:27 PM roycroft: and the colleges/unis, for the most part, don't care
11:27 PM t4nk_freenode: but yeah, Bleepshop, I saw a video the other day about KiCad... and this guy was using them to be able to draw a trace, or even two, underneath them
11:27 PM roycroft: except to say "well, if they can borrow money for those expensive textbooks, they can borrow money to pay more for tuition too"
11:28 PM * roycroft moves on to the rest of chapter 6, content to know that by going through the text for a second time, he's getting more value for the money he spent on it
11:32 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: 1986, LCC, Manufacturing Technology, Neeley and Myers. There were pictures of my hands/watch on several pages of the book they wrote that year and TVI/CNM in Albuquerque was using it in 1993. LOL
11:33 PM * Bleepshop moved someplace where 'the plague' still exists just to escape his relatives.
11:34 PM XXCoder: still does, so feel free to use it
11:37 PM Bleepshop: I told my mother that Yersina Pestis was still a thing in NM after she moed here. She moved out of the state shortly afterwards and has not darkened my doorstep since...
11:37 PM t4nk_freenode: lol
11:38 PM Bleepshop: Then I moved to the county with the last reported cluster of cases just to make sure she'd stay the hell away. LOL
11:38 PM t4nk_freenode: I share your sentiments, bleep.
11:38 PM t4nk_freenode: about the family that is
11:39 PM t4nk_freenode: you can't chose 'em
11:39 PM t4nk_freenode: but you can lose 'em
11:39 PM Bleepshop: San Miguel county has Hantavirus too so I'll never see any of them without a BSL-4 hazmat suit. LMAO
11:40 PM XXCoder: I have so few family members. I refuse to talk to one, otherwise we chat fairly oftenm
11:40 PM XXCoder: 90s was horrible for my family. so many died
11:40 PM Bleepshop: t4nk_freenode: Relatives are what genetics and/or society stick you with. Family is the people that you have in your life that mean something to you and vice versa.
11:42 PM Bleepshop: All things are relative. All relatives are things. All my relatives are things which should be scrubbed down with a stiff brush and lye soap. ;D