#linuxcnc Logs
Dec 07 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
02:02 AM CaptHindsight[m]: already -14C here and 5 more hours to sunrise
02:28 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:28 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:36 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:36 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:54 AM randy: morning
04:36 AM Tom_L: morning
04:36 AM t4nk_freenode: moaning
05:08 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:43 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:32 AM Tom_L: 32F
06:50 AM hazzy[m]: 36F
06:50 AM hazzy[m]: Morning
07:08 AM JT-Cave: 28°F
07:22 AM t4nk_freenode: 42F (muhaahhahah)
08:35 AM unterhausen: I suppose I should have looked at the weather forecast and gotten the brazing I want to do done when it was 50 instead of 28
08:36 AM CloudEvil: Currently I am trying to get a shed nice and waterproof in too high wind and lots of rain and 4C. Sigh
08:36 AM * t4nk_freenode swirls his flipflops and adjusts his sunglasses
08:41 AM t4nk_freenode: back in the days.. we had nothing but the frostbite to protect us from the fierce cold.
08:43 AM * JT-Shop procrastinates going to Foxy this morning until it's a bit above freezing as the building has no heat
08:48 AM unterhausen: working in a cold building slows my already lethargic pace of work.
08:53 AM CloudEvil: Layers++.
09:01 AM aaroncnc: Layers can help but once you start getting into -7C and are doing stationary work and trying to grab -7C metal tools i just stop working.
09:05 AM t4nk_freenode: also: classical guitar performances tend to suffer
09:11 AM unterhausen: I want one of those tilted cylindrical squares, but unfortunately too many other people also want one
09:14 AM unterhausen: I wrote some software that checks for square they use for hydrostatic bearings
09:19 AM unterhausen: the cylindrical squares that have been used as anvils go for $400 on ebay
09:41 AM * JT-Shop continues to search for the missing bit of DIN rail...
09:42 AM pere: Here it is 21°F :)
09:49 AM unterhausen: missing din rail, the pain is real
09:50 AM unterhausen: I'm procrastinating before I go downstairs and cut grooves in a 15" long 3/8" diameter all thread.
09:50 AM roguish[m]: JT-Shop: din rail is with the scissors
09:51 AM unterhausen: every black friday I buy more tape measures and they are having a party somewhere I don't know about
09:51 AM unterhausen: scissors aren't as bad
09:54 AM aaroncnc: i was so happy to have a store that gave away free 25ft tape measurers with any purchase. Was on my way home from work. so i could buy an item worth $0.40 and get one. Now i have multiple in almost every room. but they always seem to migrate around and once a month i have to go and sort them back to the right rooms.
09:57 AM unterhausen: the boss a place I used to work got tired of looking for tape measures and filled a 5 gallon bucket with them
09:57 AM unterhausen: bucket is reportedly always empty
09:58 AM Loetmichel: aaroncnc: same here at the company with the $10 digital calipers
09:58 AM Loetmichel: they seem to "migrate" onto the co-workers desks somehow
09:58 AM Loetmichel: and then disappear
09:59 AM Loetmichel: already bought about 20 for 8 workers. I am wondering if i will one day find a drawer somwhere filled with them ;)
09:59 AM unterhausen: at least I know that I'm the only one using tape measures
09:59 AM roycroft: i have two small buckets in my shop on a shelf
10:00 AM unterhausen: just bought 2 more milwaukee for $15, seem pretty nice for a German brand
10:00 AM roycroft: one is for us customary tape measures, and the other for metric tape measures
10:00 AM aaroncnc: i love those 10$ calipers/scribes. they are not perfect but for the price i dont have to care or baby sit them. My 300mm digital caliper on the other hand lives inside my house in a nice drawer.
10:00 AM roycroft: every few years i go on ebay and buy a half dozen or so
10:01 AM roycroft: as far as cheap calipers, i had to make some parts over the weekend that are 6.375" long
10:01 AM roycroft: i have a couple 6" calipers, and the length was not critical, but i decided to see how close i could make it
10:02 AM roycroft: so i got an 8" digital caliper from hf for $35
10:02 AM roycroft: not only did it feel crunch, i could hear it crunch as i moved it
10:02 AM CloudEvil: 8" mitutoyos aren't actually orders of magnitude more.
10:03 AM roycroft: it was not at all repeateable - if i would zero it, open it up a couple inches, and then close it, it would read 0.007" or -0.003" or whatever
10:03 AM roycroft: different every time
10:03 AM roycroft: and yes, i'm thinking i'll just invest $200 or so on a nice mitutoyo
10:04 AM roycroft: i have a 4" mitutoyo, and i intended for it to always sit in a tool chest and get pulled out when i need something really accurate
10:04 AM roycroft: but it's such a nice convenient size i find it in my pocket all the time, and it goes to the store with me all the time
10:04 AM roycroft: and it still works perfectly
10:04 AM roycroft: i'm not as concerned about damaging it as i used to be
10:05 AM CloudEvil: Also the battery thing
10:05 AM unterhausen: starrett are the only metric only tape measures I have been able to find
10:05 AM roguish[m]: I have one nice tape measure... precision, with certs. cost like $50
10:05 AM unterhausen: I hate mixed units on a tape measure or ruler
10:05 AM roguish[m]: hide it in a drawer
10:05 AM roycroft: i prefer not to mix units
10:05 AM roguish[m]: that's it. it's a starret
10:05 AM unterhausen: Still $10 at amazon
10:07 AM unterhausen: 3.5m can't tell if the 8m is metric only
10:12 AM aaroncnc: i find with the cheap calipers you have to take them apart and clean them. sometimes even a light file on the corners. then i take a bit of beeswax and hit the top and bottom. After that they slide great and stay accurate enough.
10:12 AM roguish[m]: aaroncnc: good tip
10:13 AM CloudEvil: The plastic ones I've had really good luck with unless they get wet
10:14 AM unterhausen: roycroft, any further progress with your package? I feel like it's going to end up in siberia
10:16 AM aaroncnc: i had one of the plastic ones mounted to my cross slide on my lathe. it worked well. still have to use micrometer for the last little bit.
10:18 AM roycroft: it's still in bristol, afaik
10:18 AM roycroft: hopefully it will hop over the pond again soon
10:18 AM roycroft: perhaps it will go back to florida for a visit before wandering out west again
10:27 AM unterhausen: according to fedex tracking, my package is not in the woods. We'll find out later today
10:33 AM roycroft: i should order my spindle and vfd soon
10:33 AM roycroft: i don't need the stuff right now, but i get 5% rewards on amazon purchases through the end of december, and the items might not ship right away
10:34 AM roycroft: i have a dead spindle and a dead vfd that i can user for initial fitting of things
10:43 AM unterhausen: I just found out that cheap Chinese ballscrews in the size I want are twice as expensive as they were a couple of months ago
10:44 AM unterhausen: maybe they figured out they were 10x cheaper
10:51 AM JT-Cave: I went to buy 50' of push on fitting hose and it was $125!
10:52 AM JT-Cave: and that was for 3/8" ID
11:00 AM roycroft: welcome to the new economy
11:00 AM roycroft: where you get to pay made in usa prices for the same old imported crap
11:10 AM * roycroft thinks he'll wait until his credit card cycles before ordering the spindle and vfd, guessing that there will still be time to ship before the end of the year
11:16 AM unterhausen: the increase in ballscrew prices might be the difference between cnc or not cnc for my lathe
11:17 AM unterhausen: JT-Cave, if I buy a 7i73 will you sell me a rs-485 adapter for my 7i96?
11:18 AM Loetmichel: Hehe, my german History teacher would have rotated in her grave. Coworker i drive home every day asked me where the old german dialects come from (he is from africa)... Result was a "1500 years of german history in 12 minutes" lesson. MAN did i forget a lot of dates/events of german history over the years ;)
11:18 AM unterhausen: I told my client not to use a weldment and it's 1/16" out of square over 1 1/2"
11:19 AM unterhausen: main problem is he had some aluminum bent and they didn't get the springback right
11:27 AM unterhausen: I tried to talk him into using extrusion, oh well
11:39 AM CloudEvil: Loetmichel: I learned all of my ancient german history from 1632. http://baencd.freedoors.org/Books/1632/1632.htm
11:39 AM CloudEvil: 'ancient'
11:40 AM CloudEvil: - Small US coalmining town from the 1990s is transported into the middle of the 30 years war.
11:40 AM Loetmichel: I've read that (and the following books)
11:40 AM CloudEvil: :)
11:40 AM Loetmichel: ... not really accurate though
11:41 AM Loetmichel: at least not after about 1633 :)
11:41 AM CloudEvil: :)
11:41 AM Loetmichel: funny though that i learned about "american coal mining central" from that book ;)
11:41 AM unterhausen: my favorite historical docu-comedy is "death of Stalin" which is almost totally wrong about all historical matters
11:42 AM unterhausen: except that Stalin had all the doctors killed, so that helped precipitate his death
11:42 AM Loetmichel: for a german the american coal mining is somewhat like looking back a few decades to be honest.
11:42 AM Loetmichel: if not centuries
11:42 AM unterhausen: coal mining has totally changed in the U.S. Very few workers underground
11:43 AM CloudEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWTFG3J1CP8
11:43 AM unterhausen: they really want to get rid of all the humans underground
11:43 AM CloudEvil: Complete History Of The Soviet Union, Arranged To The Melody Of Tetris
11:43 AM Loetmichel: unterhausen: said 1632 book is about an american coal mining village that is "magically" moved to the middle of 1632 germany
11:43 AM Loetmichel: +modern coal mining
11:43 AM Loetmichel: so everything after that is "alternate reality"
11:44 AM Loetmichel: as far as i know the author did his homework for the time before 1832 though
11:44 AM roycroft: well the history of the soviet union only goes back to 1917, so that should not take too long
11:44 AM Loetmichel: didnt catch any bad inaccuracies
11:45 AM Loetmichel: (other than a bit optimistic view on the character/"honor" of german plebs in that time)
11:46 AM unterhausen: I wish I had a caliper that went out to 15"
11:47 AM unterhausen: I have one, but it can't measure an inside dimension
11:47 AM Loetmichel: [18:27] <unterhausen> coal mining has totally changed in the U.S. Very few workers underground <- probably so. but what i have seen is about half a century "back" compared to german technology. Especially in the safety aspect
11:47 AM unterhausen: if that was really true they would buy german tech
11:47 AM unterhausen: like with trains
11:48 AM unterhausen: I don't know that they don't buy some german machines, never been inside a coal mine
11:48 AM Loetmichel: unterhausen: german coal mines are often miles deep
11:49 AM unterhausen: and this is different in some way?
11:49 AM Loetmichel: unlike american ones (as far as i know)... maybe the american companies simply dont value their workers that much?
11:49 AM Loetmichel: i meant: you need different tech if you have miles instead of a few 100 yards of rock above you when mining
11:50 AM unterhausen: I don't have too much respect for mine owners, but like I said they don't want anyone underground, which has the effect of valuing worker safety
11:50 AM unterhausen: they go where the coal is
11:51 AM Loetmichel: yeah, thats the point
11:51 AM unterhausen: I have been at many large american coal mines at shift change and the two shifts combined are just a dozen or so workers
11:52 AM Loetmichel: as far as i learned the american coal deposits are somewhat close to the surface
11:52 AM Loetmichel: not miles deep
11:53 AM unterhausen: yeah, appalachians are weird, the mountains used to be the valleys, according to a recent viral article
11:53 AM Loetmichel: unterhausen: so maybe its just the "small mines" i have seen. point was that that book got me to look into american coal mining because i was interested if that city in the book really existed and how they lived there.
11:54 AM unterhausen: it explains why there are large mountain chains that have a river going right through them
11:54 AM Loetmichel: hehe, "geologically active region"?
11:54 AM unterhausen: it wasn't that long ago that they were still using really old tech in american coal mines
11:54 AM Loetmichel: yeah, thats probably it
11:55 AM Loetmichel: maybe they bought the german tech when the germans did pull out of coal mining completely?`
11:55 AM unterhausen: my wife's grandfather was killed because a charge he set off had a bad fuse
11:55 AM unterhausen: Someone is still making the equipment
11:56 AM unterhausen: kennametal makes the teeth for the seam grinders (or whatever they call them)
11:56 AM unterhausen: family lore said that grandpa didn't run fast enough
11:58 AM Loetmichel: from what i learned the coal straits(right word for "Flötz?") in the appalachians are about half a meter to a meter thick, the german ones are usually several meters, so that may make for different mining strategies, too
11:58 AM unterhausen: He came from Italy to scranton, lived long enough to put the oldest child through college and then blew himself up
11:58 AM Loetmichel: yep, happens when you use explosives sometimes
11:58 AM unterhausen: we call them "seams"
11:59 AM Loetmichel: i see
11:59 AM unterhausen: If I was still working in mining, I would start calling them flotz
12:00 PM Loetmichel: better call them Flöz.. that T was superflous :)
12:00 PM Loetmichel: my bad
12:00 PM unterhausen: It's a little annoying that my most cited papers are in mining
12:01 PM Loetmichel: why is that annoying?
12:01 PM unterhausen: a lot of the mountain streams around here are orange from the iron in the tailings
12:01 PM Loetmichel: I assume you mean university papers?
12:01 PM unterhausen: yes, academic papers
12:02 PM Loetmichel: orange?
12:02 PM Loetmichel: TIL
12:02 PM unterhausen: I don't mind doing safety stuff, which we did, but encouraging mining is not great
12:02 PM Loetmichel: i thought most iron ore is brown(ish)
12:02 PM Loetmichel: or red
12:02 PM unterhausen: okay brownish orange
12:03 PM Loetmichel: yeah, mining in general is a dangerous job.
12:03 PM unterhausen: identifiable as iron pollution
12:03 PM Loetmichel: but can also be quite a fun one.
12:03 PM Loetmichel: I would go for taste thoug
12:03 PM unterhausen: the local mine is a lot more fun to be in now that they got rid of most of the trucks
12:03 PM Loetmichel: h
12:03 PM Loetmichel: you can taste the iron in the water LONG before you can see it
12:04 PM unterhausen: very soothing to be somewhere so quiet. People liked working there even when there was a constant smell of diesel smoke
12:05 PM Loetmichel: and there is the next differnce.
12:05 PM unterhausen: apparently some of the best lime anywhere
12:05 PM Loetmichel: most german coal mining equiment is electrical
12:05 PM Loetmichel: and "explosion proofed"
12:05 PM unterhausen: well, the smaller the mine here the more likely there is to be crummy equipment
12:05 PM Loetmichel: <- has worked as an "unter tage" electrician for a short while
12:06 PM Loetmichel: ("unter tage" means underground)
12:06 PM Loetmichel: even the big tunnel "drilling" machines down there carried a 10kV umbilical
12:07 PM Loetmichel: and not that many trucks. all transport of ore/blind rock is done by conveyer belts
12:07 PM Loetmichel: only vehicles there are small electrical locomotives or "golf carts" for the workers
12:17 PM snakedGT is now known as snaked
02:24 PM Rhine_Labs: Hey all..
02:30 PM Rhine_Labs: Trilled by a 93c36 LOL..
02:30 PM Rhine_Labs: 93C46
02:31 PM solarwind: CloudEvil Local cost of 230L liquid argon is $1,200
02:31 PM CloudEvil: Arrr.
02:31 PM solarwind: That's a steal compared to the $130 for a 330 cu ft at 2,500 PSI
02:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 330 cu ft is way more than 230L :)
02:32 PM Rhine_Labs: Yea, argon prices are nutz
02:32 PM solarwind: oh I messed up the units in my head, doing the math now
02:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: no you are just mixing states of matter as well
02:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 330 cu ft of gas vs 230L of liquid
02:34 PM solarwind: the liquid dewar is equivalent to 6,877 cu ft at standard atmospheric pressure
02:34 PM solarwind: vs the gas cylinder which is 330
02:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how many Liters in the 330cu ft tank?
02:35 PM solarwind: I'm standardizing to ft^3 at standard atmospheric pressure
02:35 PM solarwind: so 330 cu ft is 330 cu ft at std atmospheric pressure
02:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I am not, I'm going the other way
02:36 PM solarwind: so the liquid works out to 5.56 ft^3 / dollar and the pressurized cylinder works out to 2.5 ft^3 / dollar
02:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: US or Canadian dollar?
02:37 PM solarwind: CAD
02:37 PM JT-Shop: 80 years ago Pearl Harbor was attacked
02:37 PM solarwind: Forgot the $50/month dewar rental
02:38 PM solarwind: And I have my own cylinder
02:38 PM CloudEvil: Large room + couple of tarps and empty the dewar into it
02:39 PM solarwind: So for a year, that works out to 3.6 ft^3/dollar vs 2.5 ft^3/dollar for standard high pressure cylinder
02:40 PM solarwind: I think the cost would be _significantly_ lower for the liquid in volume. This was a quote from Linde (formerly Praxair) for my account which gives them like $300 revenue per year lol
02:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: looks like 1.1 cu ft more per dollhair
02:41 PM solarwind: yes
02:41 PM solarwind: For that cost, I'd rather buy a cryocooler off of ebay for $1,500 and see if I can make my own
02:42 PM solarwind: Would be fun to build a DIY argon distiller
02:42 PM solarwind: plus you get the oxygen for oxy fuel welding and nitrogen for purging :)
02:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT-Shop: was just reading an article about DNA used to identify the last 300 on the Arizona
02:43 PM solarwind: The acetylene prices are even more obscene. $350 for a "jumbo" cylinder ~300 ft^3
02:43 PM solarwind: It's making me want to build an acetylene generator. But the calcium carbide prices are insane too, unless you buy in huge quantities for industrial use
02:44 PM solarwind: the good old days are gone. It's a consumer world now which is heartbreaking
02:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: commodities that they have put into near monopolies
02:44 PM solarwind: At least propylene may be a viable alternative for oxy fuel since it has a double bond and has similar "shielding" characteristics to acetylene
02:45 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] yeah that too. The big companies are all merging and everyone else suffers
02:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just enough to not be a true monopoly but fix prices high
02:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: free market :)
02:45 PM solarwind: Yup. It costs them next to nothing to distil argon from the air that belongs to everyone
02:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what are you going to do about it huh?
02:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: around here you can't even get your larger tanks filled without renting
02:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i drive to Milwaukee to get my 300+ bottles refilled/exchanged
02:50 PM solarwind: Well I guess I'm lucky
02:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 300 cu ft
02:50 PM solarwind: 5 minute drive away, the local guy refills. No tax if you pay cash
02:50 PM solarwind: cheaper than Linde
02:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah they all say your tanks are stolen if they are over 100 cu ft
02:51 PM solarwind: ... that's such bullshit
02:51 PM solarwind: The guys here sell any size tanks
02:51 PM solarwind: And you actually own them. Own own, not exchange "own"
02:51 PM solarwind: I mean you _can_ exchange, but I'm not going to exchange my brand new beautifully painted cylinders for a crappy old looking one
02:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I don't refill that often so it's not a problem to drive and have good beer
02:52 PM solarwind: Acetylene is the only one that has to be exchanged due to very long refill times
02:52 PM solarwind: What does it cost per cylinder refill/exchange for you?
02:53 PM solarwind: T size cylinder is about $90 for oxygen, $130 for argon
02:53 PM solarwind: "you don't want to know" for helium
02:53 PM solarwind: But I bought a "home fill" oxygen high pressure pump so I can refill my own oxygen from an oxygen concentrator at > 90% purity, or from electrolysis if I want
02:54 PM solarwind: Takes a bit over 24h to fully refill the largest T size cylinder, but that's much faster than my consumption rate so fine with me.
02:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I own own and they offer to exchange my cylinders up in there
02:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I keep a 300/330 of nitrogen, argon, steel mix and a few O2's around
02:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: for propane I just use the small BBQ tanks
02:59 PM solarwind: I use the 100lb tanks because the price drops _significantly_ for larger tanks
02:59 PM solarwind: $70 for a 100 lb tank, $23 for a 20 lb tank
02:59 PM solarwind: But I want to make an automotive refill adapter so I can fill it myself for even cheaper from the automotive propane pump
03:00 PM solarwind: I fill all my other tanks from the large 100 lb ones
03:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: my avg propane use is maybe 5lbs/year :)
03:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: for cutting
03:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the forklift used that per day
03:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: if you drive your biggest lift around for a day, how much does it use?
03:06 PM solarwind: a whole 30 lb tank
03:06 PM solarwind: But I use a lot for other purposes such as space heaters, my forge, welding preheat
03:08 PM solarwind: Melting lead from the old dead batteries, reducing lead dioxide to lead oxide to metallic lead, lots of random things
03:10 PM solarwind: speaking of which, the big 15k Clark needs an engine/fuel system tune up
03:14 PM solarwind: Unrelated rant: ugh damn power tool battery chargers keep charging to 4.2 V/cell
03:14 PM solarwind: need to waste time now to modify the 4 slot 8A dewalt charger to reduce the charge voltage to 4.0V/cell
03:15 PM solarwind: It's a power tool, not a laptop/cell phone. I need these cells to last and sometimes be stored without degrading the electrolyte at 20% permanent capacity loss per year
03:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: see if you can identify which charge controller they use, will likely be a one or two component swap to change the voltage
03:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you'll probably be horrified by the crappy yet cheapest design they could achieve that lasts the warranty period
03:29 PM solarwind: Oh I'm sure it'll last forever
03:29 PM solarwind: It's a standard switched mode power supply
03:29 PM solarwind: My main thing is electrical engineering, this is a piece of cake
03:30 PM roycroft: it looks like my transformer is out for delivery, so i should be able to finish setting up my bandsaw soon
03:34 PM roycroft: and my spindle mount seems to be enjoying life on the river avon, and is in no hurry to return to the us
03:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Amazons east coast service desk for AWS is out, can't have any problems if you can't report them
03:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: clever
03:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: anyone heard from jymmm? Did he survive the past year?
03:38 PM roycroft: yes, i hear there's a big bgp snafu
03:38 PM roycroft: i haven't seen jymmm in months
03:39 PM roycroft: i suspect and hope he just decided to not hang out here any more
03:39 PM roycroft: or at least take a break
03:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he said "life got in the way" without any detail last I heard from him months ago
03:39 PM roycroft: that's better than the alterntive
03:39 PM roycroft: alternative
03:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTTdm9RAMiM patented a slow syringe for a 5-axis deposition printer
03:45 PM roycroft: if anyone has a bag of popcorn they need to use up, and wants to be entertained, i ran across a funny youtube video
03:46 PM roycroft: it's by a guy who discussed "the dark side" of cnc routing
03:47 PM roycroft: he basically says "i bought a cnc router, and i wanted to just make parts with it. it's hard though - it wants me to set things up, do some math, and use software. i'm a dumbass and i just want to make parts, but i keep crashing the machine and screwing things up. cnc sucks."
03:47 PM solarwind: I didn't know Darth Vader was a fan of CNC machining
03:47 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbxhhiA0i2E
03:47 PM roycroft: don't insult darth vader by comparing him to a dumbass hick
03:47 PM solarwind: Sounds like 3D printing is what he's after, but based on that attitude, even that would be too much for him
03:48 PM XXCoder: roy uhh is that same guy who danced above spinning lathe?
03:48 PM roycroft: i don't know, but i doubt it
03:48 PM XXCoder: theres dumb then theres scary dumb
03:49 PM roycroft: i'm sure if he looked at a lathe he would immediately come to the (correct) conclusion that a machine with all those levers and knobs is way too complicated for him
03:49 PM XXCoder: smarter than other guy then. he slid in and out the uhh other end holder thingy on spinning lathe
03:50 PM roycroft: what's disconcerting are all the "i hear you brother - cnc is *HARD*" comments
03:50 PM XXCoder: im sure that channel will simply go quiet someday
03:50 PM XXCoder: cnc isnt that hard, but then you have to think though things. hack jobs means crashy
03:50 PM roycroft: one of this guy's big negatives is that "there aren't enough files to download"
03:51 PM roycroft: he wants to just download files from the internet and cut them on his router
03:52 PM XXCoder: it arent reprap
03:52 PM roycroft: "that's what a beginner wants to do - you want to make stuff. you don't want to learn how to generate files with software. you want to make stuff"
03:52 PM roycroft: anyway, it's somewhat entertaining, for a few minutes at least
03:53 PM XXCoder: lol ok
03:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and these same people vote or have the right to
03:56 PM roycroft: i am so conflicted on that point
03:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they make for great consumers
03:58 PM XXCoder: whats that end holder name nammit
03:58 PM XXCoder: ah yes tailstock
03:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: semi-autonomous drones tied back to the mother-ship via social media
04:20 PM Tom_L: teeth aren't a requirement to vote
04:20 PM Tom_L: nor brains
04:24 PM roycroft: and there's my internal conflict
04:24 PM roycroft: i think voting should be as universal and accessable as possible
04:24 PM roycroft: we should err on the side of inclusion when it comes to allowing people to vote
04:25 PM roycroft: but on the other hand i think people have a responsibility to understand what and whom they're voting for
04:25 PM Tom_L: as long as they pass the requirements
04:25 PM roycroft: yes
04:25 PM roycroft: of course
04:25 PM roycroft: but those requirements need to be inclusive, not exclusive
04:28 PM XXCoder: ill never vote for voting tests. because its way too easy to exclude "certain people"
04:28 PM roycroft: there's the rub
04:29 PM roycroft: jim crow laws have always been discriminatory
04:29 PM XXCoder: did you know voting testing once existed?
04:29 PM roycroft: see above
04:29 PM XXCoder: they had impossible tests, and thats where "grandfathered in" come from
04:29 PM roycroft: and because of that, i'm against those kinds of tests
04:30 PM XXCoder: indeed
04:30 PM roycroft: what i'd rather see is a contitutional amendment that addresses the voting problems
04:30 PM XXCoder: make it automated register, make it ranked vote
04:30 PM roycroft: it could include things like mandating non-partisan redistricting commissions
04:30 PM XXCoder: end 2 party lockin
04:30 PM roycroft: automatic voter registration
04:31 PM roycroft: national standards for voter id, and requirements that states facilitate issuance of those ids to those who do not have them
04:31 PM roycroft: requiring political candidates to be truthful (one reason we need an amendment for this)
04:32 PM roycroft: 100% public financing of elections, with zero private monies available
04:32 PM Tom_L: good day to build a CNC
04:32 PM * JT-Shop hopes to get everything in it's place before next year...
04:32 PM roycroft: sure, if you don't mind popping over to bristol and sending my spindle mount on its way to me :)
04:32 PM JT-Shop: I might take the rest of the year off after finishing up the copy lathe
04:32 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, you could solve your problem by parking it ouside :)
04:32 PM XXCoder: and then come over and magically summon shop building for me
04:33 PM roycroft: i have several weeks of accrued vacation, and i could sure use a week of it now
04:33 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, not an option here... we have wood rats that love wire and insulation
04:33 PM roycroft: but i have a couple projects at work that have to be finished by the end of the year
04:33 PM Tom_L: oh that's right...
04:33 PM JT-Shop: and I'm not feeding the wood rats the new truck!
04:33 PM Tom_L: it would be yummy
04:33 PM JT-Shop: I have a carport but it's not enclosed... yet
04:34 PM JT-Shop: now where is everything?
04:35 PM XXCoder: at last place you put it
04:43 PM d2inventory: enleth: VHM stands for "VollHartMetall" it's German and basically stands for solid carbide
04:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: I didn't mean we should exclude those voters, it's merely an observation of the effects of dumbing everyone down to produce these types of voters
04:44 PM * JT-Shop wonders where he put the way oil and other oil for the cnc machines???
04:46 PM Tom_itx: on the vehicle antifreeze shelf
04:46 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
04:54 PM Tom_L: you had to move things in a hurry
05:00 PM enleth: d2inventory: thanks, I suspected this might be a German abbreviation but could not find what it stands for
05:01 PM enleth: d2inventory: it would make perfect sense that it's widely used by tooling vendors and manufacturers in Poland - most of imported tooling is German, most of exported tooling made here goes to Germany
05:06 PM JT-Shop: making progress... found the way lube and other oils
05:06 PM JT-Shop: it was behind the Spyder...
05:06 PM Tom_L: good place to hide it
05:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: mine are in 55gal drums, so they tend the more in the way vs buried
05:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if anyone needs a few gallons let me know
05:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I inherited drums of each 10 years ago
05:08 PM Tom_L: what's it's shelf life?
05:08 PM _unreal_: Bleepshop, ???? 2k oz? wtf?
05:09 PM _unreal_: Bleepshop, I"m talking about converting to THREAD
05:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: long
05:09 PM _unreal_: so yes that is correct
05:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I got 2 cans from the 1960's with a lathe
05:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: was fine
05:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://i.imgur.com/xw5PV90.jpg were in the "tool box"
05:12 PM _unreal_: be back later got to go get a tree
05:13 PM XXCoder: some stuff is essentally immortal heh
05:22 PM JT-Shop: I'm playing a giant game of hide and seek... all the stuff I took off the shelves is hiding and I'm seeking it
05:23 PM XXCoder: bribe wood rats to find em for you
05:23 PM JT-Shop: they prefer shiny and soft stuff...
05:23 PM XXCoder: excellent, you know what to bribe them with then heh
05:24 PM JT-Shop: I think it takes too long to train them to seek what you're looking for...
05:32 PM XXCoder: true too bad lol
07:05 PM roycroft: time for some more shellacking
07:32 PM unterhausen: enleth do you have pics of your bridgeport online?
07:35 PM enleth: unterhausen: some, definitely - why?
07:36 PM enleth: if you're interested in any particular part, I can go downstairs and take a new picture
07:36 PM unterhausen: I forget what version you have. I was curious about the limit switches
07:36 PM unterhausen: yours has dovetail ways, right?
07:36 PM enleth: Series I MDI, which originally was the CNC-ish one
07:37 PM unterhausen: I have a series II, which is considerably different except the head
07:39 PM enleth: it's the one with box ways saddle?
07:39 PM enleth: Series II had a whole range of different head options in different models
07:40 PM enleth: Interact 2 has the same ram and head as mine, while Interact 4 is this weird blocky ram-head monolith with a DC spindle motor
07:41 PM unterhausen: I have the rigid ram
07:41 PM enleth: mine is rigid ram, too
07:41 PM unterhausen: I am pretty sure you linked a pic of it and we have the same ram/head
07:42 PM enleth: this is a Series II Interact 2, beefier than mine but exactly same ram and head: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0016/3620/4589/products/custom_resized_f9958004-44f5-4fff-863d-e0466a261333_2048x.png?v=1617984594
07:44 PM enleth: so I suppose that's what you have
07:44 PM enleth: the blocky thing in 4: https://www.cottandco.com/media/lot/Lot-106---00-3.JPG
07:46 PM unterhausen: that interac is similar, but I think mine might have more travel
07:46 PM unterhausen: and is older
07:47 PM unterhausen: There was a guy on cnczone that tried to explain the air lift on the knee, but I never did understand how it worked
07:48 PM enleth: unterhausen: here's a bunch of very old photos from when I got the machine: https://gallery.hackerspace.pl/Bridgeport
07:49 PM enleth: I tore it down to bare castings, so it's likely you'll find what you're looking for in there
07:49 PM unterhausen: Do you still drive the speed control with air?
07:50 PM unterhausen: does your knee have air assist?
07:51 PM enleth: no, the whole varispeed system was extremely worn out - pulley halves canted over so far on they gouged their shafts out of round
07:52 PM enleth: trashed it, replaced with a 1:1 belt and VFD
07:52 PM enleth: no knee assist of any kind, but I'm considering adding one
07:53 PM enleth: 1st gear dog clutch was trash, too, so I had to come up with a way to remanufacture it
07:54 PM enleth: teeth were essentially sawtooth-shaped, possibly from idiot operators disengaging backgear without waiting for the spindle to stop
07:54 PM unterhausen: yeah, an air spring would be better than whatever weird pneumatic cylinder they made in the center of the knee screw
07:54 PM enleth: slamming spring-loaded, counter-rotating clutch halves together
07:55 PM unterhausen: I didn't know there was a clutch in there
07:55 PM enleth: when you engage backgear, a dog clutch disengages first
07:56 PM enleth: you never had to tear into the spindle drivetrain?
07:56 PM unterhausen: mine seems to be working okay
07:56 PM enleth: you're lucky
07:56 PM enleth: it's a bitch to overhaul
07:56 PM unterhausen: my mill made the same part over and over, they probably never changed anything in the head
07:57 PM enleth: makes sense if they never needed the backgear
07:57 PM unterhausen: some way wear as a result though
07:58 PM unterhausen: looks like a go player designed your site's favicon
08:02 PM enleth: unterhausen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glider_(Conway%27s_Life)#Hacker_emblem
08:03 PM enleth: we no longer use it as a logo, but it's still there in the favicon, the new logo wouldn't be legible at that size
08:06 PM enleth: anyway, my office is two floors above where the Bridgeport sits, so let me know if you need any detail photos, wiring diagrams or just a description of how anything in this machine works
10:02 PM roycroft: when will zefram cochrane be born?
10:02 PM roycroft: it's some time soon, i think
10:03 PM roycroft: and the world will be ready for him - we have achieved warp speed
10:03 PM roycroft: https://thedebrief.org/darpa-funded-researchers-accidentally-create-the-worlds-first-warp-bubble/
10:04 PM roycroft: vulcan spies should be showing up on earth any time now
10:08 PM XXCoder: would be funny if they REALLY show up
10:08 PM XXCoder: it woulkd tell us that someone traveled back in time, and thats gary
10:08 PM roycroft: it would not be funny
10:08 PM roycroft: it would be logical
10:09 PM XXCoder: or maybe gary is a front
10:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Cochrane was born in 2030, according to Star Trek: First Contact (though the novelization of that film gives his year of birth as 2013)
10:09 PM roycroft: so the timing is right
10:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zefram_Cochrane
10:09 PM XXCoder: so, 8 years of research is what zefram worked on
10:09 PM XXCoder: well after he grew up
10:10 PM XXCoder: so I guess 28 to 38 more sresearch then he went off to develop his own enginer
10:10 PM XXCoder: *then he read about it probably
10:10 PM roycroft: well all we have right now is a tiny, ephemeral warp bubble
10:10 PM XXCoder: yeah
10:12 PM roycroft: but while i'm no theoretical physicist, my understanding is that einstein never said that matter cannot travel faster than light
10:13 PM roycroft: he only said that matter would have to have infinite mass and infinite acceleration to travel at precisely the speed of life
10:13 PM roycroft: light
10:13 PM roycroft: i've friends who argue to the contrary
10:13 PM roycroft: i have have been vindicated
10:16 PM roycroft: i feel i have, rather
10:16 PM * roycroft is somewhat distracted, and should probably focus on what he's doing
10:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "you'll shoot your eye out"
10:27 PM enleth: roycroft: more generally, as you approach the speed of light, the energy you need to accelerate any further approaches infinity
10:27 PM enleth: roycroft: getting over it would require more than infinity of energy, at which point the math itself is getting somewhat hairy
10:28 PM enleth: let alone the practical physical implications
10:30 PM XXCoder: enleth: well that applies to everything on space
10:30 PM XXCoder: not to space itself apparently
10:31 PM roycroft: perhaps this is where antimatter comes into play
10:31 PM XXCoder: still vastly less than infinity energy. 0% of it
10:31 PM XXCoder: those warp drives simply bypass it
10:32 PM roycroft: but you are correct, the speed of light is a limit of the velocity function