#linuxcnc Logs

Dec 01 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:03 AM CaptHindsight[m]: when i was a kid i read several books about them, funny how over time most of the info in them was all speculation or BS
01:10 AM roycroft: one of my earliest memories is when my parents called me out to watch the beatles on ed sullivan
01:10 AM roycroft: i was a beatles fan immediately :)
01:10 AM CaptHindsight[m]: the long hair was a shocker
01:10 AM roycroft: i was probably still sporting a crew cut at the time
01:10 AM roycroft: that was pretty much what my parents dictated until i started to rebel in junior high school
01:10 AM CaptHindsight[m]: one of my sisters was a big fan, collected stuff for years
01:10 AM roycroft: i was never a beatles fanatic
01:10 AM roycroft: i mean, the first album i ever bought was revolver (and i still have it - in monochrome), but i listened to all sorts of music back then
01:24 AM randy: morning
01:25 AM norias: randy: good morning
01:26 AM norias: how are you?
01:27 AM randy: sleepy.
01:28 AM randy: hope you are doing better?
01:29 AM norias: oh man, not sure
01:30 AM norias: the deeper i dive in to math, the more fascinating it is
01:30 AM norias: but i also feel lost
01:30 AM norias: i started reading some stuff on topology and it assumes you've taken three semesters of calculus
01:31 AM norias: which i have, but it's still tough on the mind
02:10 AM Deejay: moin
02:16 AM Loetmichel: Conclusion: 63Ah arent enough to reach the company with headlights on. Car stopped about one km from the company. Had to call the boss with a jumper cable. Car battery is charging now. And i am cobbling together another "parallel" battery with 45Ah. Hopefully thats enough to last until next wenedsday when the new alternator is scheduled to arrive and i have an appointment at the mechanic.
02:31 AM roycroft: i had a bad alternator in my van for a bit
02:31 AM roycroft: it took me a few days to get the replacement and install it
02:31 AM roycroft: i ended up buying a spare battery for it and swapping that in when the primary one died
02:32 AM roycroft: this all happened at the one time each year when i absolutely have to have my van working
02:32 AM roycroft: i fortunately did not have to do any night driving
02:34 AM Loetmichel: yeah, as usual murphy hits when there is no way around
03:53 AM * t4nk_freenode sips his coffee while the cnc gently purrs...
03:53 AM t4nk_freenode: and the vacuum cleaner is making Hell's noise.
03:57 AM randy: hehe
04:13 AM Tom_L: morning
04:14 AM Tom_L: t4nk_freenode, get your z height figured out?
04:15 AM t4nk_freenode: working on it right now, Tom_L
04:16 AM t4nk_freenode: I've connected a serial port and changed the microstepping for z
04:16 AM t4nk_freenode: my lead screw has 2mm lead for my z, and 8mm lead for x/y
04:17 AM t4nk_freenode: they're both at 200 steps/mm now
04:17 AM t4nk_freenode: so I guess I am doing 1/4th microstepping now
04:18 AM t4nk_freenode: just did a roughing run, and I'm now in with a 20degree vbit, about to hit the problem area I guess
04:46 AM t4nk_freenode: I'm now at 86% and z is still clear of the limit switch.. last night it would have crashed by now
04:47 AM t4nk_freenode: not sure if it isn't losing any steps though
05:11 AM t4nk_freenode: well...
05:12 AM t4nk_freenode: it's way better
05:13 AM t4nk_freenode: with a little fantasy I can suppose that the final part is a fraction of a mm lower
05:15 AM t4nk_freenode: but that may well be my bed
05:16 AM t4nk_freenode: I also concluded that mdf is not really suited for this ;)
05:17 AM t4nk_freenode: previously used 'spruce'... at least I think it's spruce, we call it 'fire wood', ironically
05:20 AM t4nk_freenode: yeah... what can I say
05:32 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:37 AM t4nk_freenode: morning
05:55 AM Loetmichel: aaand got the backup battery in... lets hope thats doesent short out on the junk in the trunk... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=18047&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 ... also: charger is back to 13.4V and charging at full 5A :)
06:41 AM miss0r: CaptHindsight[m]: You around?
07:35 AM * t4nk_freenode calls it enough for the day
07:35 AM t4nk_freenode: 'European spruce' I think you may call it
07:36 AM pere: miss0r: happy to report that the masak parameters for my machine has been found. but still no idea how to enter them into the machine. seem to be a "hidden screen" involved, and have not found a way to get to it .
07:42 AM Tom_L: you generally download a file to the parameter section of memory instead of program memory
07:43 AM Tom_L: unless you have to manually enter them
07:57 AM miss0r: pere: I'm not too familiar with mazatrol sadly. But theres usualy a 'bit' to be set somewhere to allow you to write to the memory.
07:57 AM miss0r: In some cases theres a switch "hidden" in the electronics cabinet you have to switch on
08:11 AM Loetmichel: $me just tested with a DC clamp Amp meter on the car battery. Shows the 5A charge from the computer charger correctly... then started the engine: -51A while idling. +4A when at 4500RPM... and thats with lights off. I think that alternator is done for. :(
08:18 AM miss0r: That sounds on the low side
08:19 AM miss0r: unless ofc. the battery is completely charged that is
08:19 AM Loetmichel: completely empty is more like it
08:19 AM Loetmichel: because of the dead alternator
08:20 AM pere: Tom_L: my 1987 model do not have any floppy or storage input system, so suspect I have to type it in.
08:51 AM pere: miss0r: will have to track down a working recipe, then. :)
09:04 AM Loetmichel: miss0r: point is that the engine should (slightly) charge the batteries even at idle
09:04 AM Loetmichel: not draw 50+Amps from the batteries
09:05 AM Loetmichel: and it being a 150A alternator it should pump at least about 50A into the batteries at 40krpm
09:55 AM roycroft: if i am shopping for sbr bearing blocks, is there any practical difference between the various imported ones that i find on ebay? and are those imported ones of good enough quality to build a cnc machine that's fairly accurate?
09:56 AM aaroncnc: roycroft, define accurate?
09:56 AM aaroncnc: what are you cutting?
09:56 AM perry_j1987: can always swap out the bearings in the blocks if you find they are not up to snuff
09:56 AM aaroncnc: what speeds do you want to achieve?
09:57 AM roycroft: this will be for a cnc router. i'll be mostly making jigs/templates out of mdf and plywood, but will occasionally want to machine non-ferrous metals and perhaps plastics
09:58 AM aaroncnc: they are better than nothing. honestly the quality of things in the last 10 years has gotten much better.
09:58 AM roycroft: by "accurate", i'd like to hold 0.001", but 0.003" would be ok
09:58 AM roycroft: and as far as speeds, that's not particularly relevant, at this point
09:58 AM Loetmichel: aaroncnc: usually those SBR blocks can be adjusted to be "play free"
09:59 AM roycroft: as i won't be making parts, but jigs/fixtures
09:59 AM Loetmichel: but they DO wear down faster than a THK linear rail
09:59 AM aaroncnc: 0.001? on a gantry router?
09:59 AM roycroft: and even if i do end up making the occasional part, it will be a one-off thing, not a production run
09:59 AM roycroft: yes
09:59 AM Loetmichel: aaroncnc: its not impossible
09:59 AM roycroft: as i said, that would be my wish
09:59 AM Loetmichel: you'll have to have time though
09:59 AM roycroft: but 0.003" would be fine
10:00 AM roycroft: and is probably more realistic
10:00 AM aaroncnc: i know its not impossible but everything is a spring and a gantry router is a bigger spring.
10:00 AM Loetmichel: I can do 0.02mm accuracy on those cheap chinese CNC 6040
10:00 AM Loetmichel: but you'll have to do light cuts and slow
10:01 AM Loetmichel: if you rush it it goes down to 0.2mm "accuracy"
10:01 AM aaroncnc: Loetmichel, sure on softer things where there is minimal deflection.
10:01 AM Loetmichel: alu
10:01 AM Loetmichel: as i do all the time
10:01 AM Loetmichel: i wouldnt do steel on a 6040, thats calling for trouble ;)
10:02 AM roycroft: this is typical of what i'm looking at: https://www.ebay.com/itm/384097570437
10:02 AM roycroft: is that reasonable for my expectations?
10:03 AM Loetmichel: yeah, my machines have those as well
10:03 AM aaroncnc: got picture of the mill yet?
10:03 AM Loetmichel: they should be good
10:03 AM roycroft: no
10:03 AM aaroncnc: I think they will work to, depending how the rod is supported tho can lead to some problems.
10:03 AM roycroft: i assume that if i get those i need to disassemble them, clean the crud out of them, then reassemble and lubricate before i install them
10:04 AM roycroft: i'm still working on that, aaroncnc
10:04 AM aaroncnc: yes
10:04 AM Loetmichel: aaroncnc: as i said: i did 0.001" accuracy in alu on a CNC 6040 thats pretty much teh epitome of "non-rigid gantry router"... you'll have to bring time though
10:04 AM roycroft: on the y axis i'm thinking the rails will be mounted directly on the sides of the table top, shimmed out to be as straight as possible
10:05 AM perry_j1987: roycroft i've seen guys take htem apart and replace the balls with ceramic balls
10:05 AM Loetmichel: if you go to the edge of breaking the mill bit its usually closer to 0.01" accuracy
10:05 AM perry_j1987: painstaking but they do it for the fun of it as well heh
10:05 AM roycroft: well for me, keeping the machine as "stock" as possible at first makes sense
10:06 AM roycroft: since i think i have a good idea of how to build it, but not a good sense of the quality of components needed to build it accurately, i'll want to start by not modifying the parts
10:06 AM aaroncnc: you going for round rails or supported? https://www.ebay.com/itm/313244603135?hash=item48eed552ff:g:DxUAAOSw84BfVq7r
10:06 AM roycroft: test and see how accurate it is
10:06 AM roycroft: come back here and ask a bunch more questions
10:06 AM roycroft: and *then* consider modifications
10:07 AM roycroft: yeah, those are the kinds of rails i'm looking at
10:07 AM perry_j1987: why supported vs linear rails?
10:08 AM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm/130994197856
10:08 AM roycroft: those, specifically, are on my list to consider
10:09 AM roycroft: those rails seem easy to install, economical, and i've seen the same setup on other routers the size that i'm planning on building
10:09 AM roycroft: but i'm certainly open to other ideas
10:10 AM roycroft: a big reason i don't have plans to show folks is at this point i don't have the design details worked out
10:10 AM aaroncnc: i have had good luck with hiwin rails.
10:10 AM perry_j1987: i like linear rails more
10:10 AM perry_j1987: personally
10:10 AM Loetmichel: Hiwin/THK are a whole different league than chinese SBRs, thats for sure
10:10 AM Loetmichel: also in price
10:10 AM roycroft: yes, i looked at the hiwin stuff, at about 4x the cost
10:11 AM perry_j1987: even the cheap options are decent quality now
10:11 AM Loetmichel: btw: most people disregard that the rails themselves are NOT guranteed to be straight or STAY straight
10:11 AM roycroft: i'll discuss budget for a moment, to give folks an idea where i am
10:12 AM Loetmichel: you have to adjust/shim them and mount them to something rigid to get a good performance
10:12 AM roycroft: i have almost all the electronics already - the linuxcnc components, the drives, power supplies, stepper motors, etc.
10:12 AM roycroft: so that's done
10:12 AM roycroft: well, not completely assembled, but i have almost all that stuff
10:13 AM roycroft: i want a router that can machine 2'x4'/600mm/1200mm, with a z axis with about 8"/200mm vertical travel
10:13 AM Loetmichel: look at this picture: you can see the shims and the box on the gantry that makes it stiff: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
10:13 AM roycroft: my budget for the rest of the components is US$2k at the most
10:13 AM roycroft: the router table itself, to which this will be mounted, is in a different budget
10:14 AM roycroft: so that $2k is for the y axis rails/supports, gantry, z axis, spindle, and vfd
10:14 AM roycroft: i can't spend over half of that just for the y axis linear rails
10:15 AM Loetmichel: point is that regardless of which linear rails you use: they are only as sturdy as their support structure
10:15 AM Loetmichel: and only as precise as you mounted them
10:15 AM aaroncnc: thats an interesting image, i see a dremel as the spindle
10:16 AM Loetmichel: dremel?
10:16 AM aaroncnc: rotary tool
10:16 AM Loetmichel: nah, thats a Kress wood router
10:16 AM Loetmichel: that machine is 1700mm by 1200mm by 280mm or so travel machine
10:16 AM roycroft: if my budget and my accuracy expectations are unrealistic, please let me know
10:16 AM Loetmichel: a dremel would be about 1/4 the size of that kress
10:18 AM unterhausen: I'm finally defeated in my attempts to fix the clothes dryer.
10:18 AM aaroncnc: i think you could have a working system for that cost. but its also going to come down to how its built. even the type of wood and what type of enviorment its in. humidity and temp could throw things.
10:18 AM unterhausen: can't find a schematic online and the only places that purport to have a service manual have no evidence that my $10 is actually going to result in buying one
10:18 AM aaroncnc: but you could build as is and over time fix your weak spots.
10:19 AM aaroncnc: something to think about is a granite machine base.
10:20 AM unterhausen: I have a 2' by 3' by 6" piece of granite and I would really hesitate to get another.
10:20 AM unterhausen: it's a pain to deal with
10:21 AM unterhausen: someone tried to give me a 3' by 4' by 1' granite table and I figured out it weighed over 5000 lb
10:21 AM unterhausen: I would love to have it though, just don't want another boat anchor
10:45 AM CloudEvil: Wish mercury wan't so toxic.
10:45 AM CloudEvil: It'd make moving some things easy
10:45 AM CloudEvil: (yes, there are usually much saner methods)
11:17 AM Loetmichel: Soo, arrived at home without issues. Battery still full enough to not light up the dash. Murphys law though. my usual commute is 12 min. today i had to take a 20 min detour because the usual way is blocked by the police: big accident, they are clearing up. :(
11:17 AM Loetmichel: good thing that the alternator is still charging a wee bit over 4000RPM... Coworker that i take home usually mentioned. "Oh, its like Formula1 today. *RAAAAAA*" :)
11:35 AM roycroft: i had to make a quick trip to the store a couple days ago
11:35 AM roycroft: fuel was low in my car, but not by any means critical
11:35 AM roycroft: i had a good 50 miles left, and the store was only 5 miles away
11:35 AM roycroft: so i was in good shape, until i got caught up in the traffic jam on the freeway
11:35 AM roycroft: there was a wreck ahead
11:36 AM roycroft: it took me an hour and ten minutes to drive that 5 miles
11:36 AM roycroft: by the time i got home, i was on fumes
11:36 AM Loetmichel: yeah
11:36 AM Loetmichel: as i said: murphy
11:36 AM roycroft: my fuel economy went from the usual 50mpg on the freeway to about 2mpg
11:36 AM roycroft: yup
11:36 AM Loetmichel: good thing that i always have a jerry can in the trunk
11:36 AM Loetmichel: i even change the contents periodically
11:36 AM roycroft: in fact, my engine was not moving the car at all
11:37 AM roycroft: i was driving so slowly it was completely on battery
11:37 AM roycroft: but the engine was running to recharge the battery pack
11:37 AM roycroft: which is the most inefficient way to drive a prius
11:38 AM Loetmichel: cant you switch off the engine while rolling and only recharge the pack once its completely empty/cleared the traffic jam?
11:39 AM roycroft: the battery pack would not last nearly long enough
11:39 AM roycroft: it's not meant for driving - this is an early prius
11:39 AM roycroft: it's only meant to be used for acceleration
11:39 AM roycroft: when at a complete stop, the battery starts forward motion
11:39 AM roycroft: the engine kicks in at about 6mph
11:40 AM Loetmichel: i see
11:40 AM roycroft: when accelerating, the motor assists the engine, then cuts out when the engine can handle the load
11:40 AM roycroft: the premise being that a tiny engine can handle most driving, but it takes more power than a tiny engine can muster to start from a dead stop and to accelerate quickly
11:41 AM Loetmichel: yeah, thats similarily useless to the "30km range" in the merc my wife drives
11:41 AM roycroft: it works remarkably well in most circumstances
11:41 AM Loetmichel: in reality that 2.1 ton monster has NEVER seen more than about 20km from that battery pack
11:41 AM roycroft: most people are under the impression that a hybrid/electric vehicle is gutless
11:41 AM Loetmichel: not to mention the 9l/100km fuel consumption when they say 3.3l/100km on the datasheet
11:42 AM roycroft: because a tiny electric motor is no comparison to a big internal cumbustion engine
11:42 AM Loetmichel: ahem
11:42 AM roycroft: when people ride with me they are shocked and impressed when i floor it when entering a freeway onramp
11:42 AM roycroft: because it takes off like a high peformance sports car
11:42 AM Loetmichel: wifes merc has a 211HP petrol engine and a 85kW electric motor
11:42 AM Loetmichel: its anything but "gutless"
11:42 AM Loetmichel: especially while accelerating
11:43 AM roycroft: yeah, but most people don't know that
11:43 AM Loetmichel: that thing kicks you twice
11:43 AM Loetmichel: first when the instant torque of the e-motor kicks in, then when the petrol engine is up to rev and follows up ;)
11:43 AM roycroft: they don't realise that the motor in an ev/hybrid has full torque at >0rpm
11:43 AM Loetmichel: indeed
11:44 AM roycroft: it doesn't have to "spin up" to deliver a lot of power
11:44 AM roycroft: it's all there instantly
11:45 AM roycroft: and i think that the way most people drive hybrids reinforces that notion
11:45 AM roycroft: because hybrid drivers don't know what they're doing
11:45 AM FinboySlick: Limiting factor in most case is getting the electricity to the motor.
11:45 AM roycroft: i see hybrids all the time that start moving very very timidly, and take a long time to get up to speed
11:46 AM roycroft: the drivers, i'm sure, think that driving that way is more economical than just flooring it, when in fact, the exact opposite is true
11:46 AM roycroft: the longer i run the motor the lower my fuel economy
11:46 AM roycroft: the longer i run the engine at low speed the lower my fuel economy
11:46 AM roycroft: to get the best mileage, i accelerate as quickly as possible to get to my desired speed, and then engage the cruise control
11:46 AM Loetmichel: roycroft: wifes merc has "modes"
11:47 AM roycroft: and that's the other thing - i see priuses accelerating/decelerating constantly
11:47 AM Loetmichel: pure electric, hybrid economy, hybrid sport, pure petrol, charge
11:47 AM roycroft: i *know* they're not using the cruise control
11:47 AM FinboySlick: Roycroft drifting sideways on the on-ramp to save the world from carbon emissions.
11:47 AM roycroft: and they're just wasting fuel
11:48 AM Loetmichel: yeah, using cruise control is even saving fuel on a pure ICE
11:48 AM roycroft: regardless of one's opinion on conserving our carbon footprint, at $4/gallon it's stupid to not drive economically
11:48 AM roycroft: it is, loetmichel
11:48 AM roycroft: and i don't understand why people don't use it except on long distance trips on the freeway
11:49 AM Loetmichel: i use it all the time
11:49 AM roycroft: my cruise control will engage at 23mph, and i use it whenever possible
11:49 AM Loetmichel: and be it just to relax the accelerator foot
11:49 AM Loetmichel: :)
11:49 AM roycroft: the default speed limit on residential streets in my town is 20mph, so i can't use it on those
11:49 AM roycroft: but i rarely drive more than a couple blocks away from an arterial
11:50 AM Loetmichel: the CC on my BMW locks in at about walking speed
11:50 AM roycroft: yes, it's more relaxing, as well as more efficient
11:50 AM roycroft: i wish my prius did that
11:50 AM roycroft: i'm happy with the car generally, but i'm not very happy with the cruise control
11:50 AM Loetmichel: ... and still locks at 230kph. that was was surprised me more ;)
11:50 AM roycroft: it needs to engage at a lower speed
11:51 AM Loetmichel: s/was/what
11:51 AM roycroft: and the pid could use some tuning, but i don't think there's a way to do that
11:51 AM roycroft: it tends to overshoot when accelerating uphill, but about 3mph, and takes a while to settle back to the set point
11:52 AM FinboySlick: I kind of liked the Chevy Volt when we had a couple at work.
11:52 AM Loetmichel: well, i didnt expect mine to still work at 140mph, but its a BMW, so there's that
11:52 AM roycroft: oddly, though, it holds the speed very accurately when going downhill, unless the hill is really steep
11:52 AM roycroft: evs are fun to drive
11:52 AM FinboySlick: Volt was technically a hybrid.
11:53 AM roycroft: so to change the subject, getting back more on topic
11:53 AM Loetmichel: Its a bit eiree(sp?) though to see a 2.1 ton merc SUV roll of the backyard with the only sounds being the stones crushed under the wheels and a slight whine from the poer steering pump
11:54 AM roycroft: it was suggested here today by a couple folks that it would be hard to hold tolerance on my router using sbr rails vs. something like hiwin rails
11:54 AM roycroft: you're using sbr rails on that big router you showed me the other day, loetmichel
11:54 AM Loetmichel: nah, that is not true
11:54 AM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: Amusing that they still went with a hydrolic power steering when they have all that electricity on board. Especially on an SUV.
11:55 AM Loetmichel: SBR are a bit less resistant to wear than THK/Hiwin
11:55 AM roycroft: am i going to be hold 0.003" if i use them?
11:55 AM roycroft: ok
11:55 AM Loetmichel: and they are a bit weaker in construction
11:55 AM roycroft: wel i can buy a sbr rail for $130
11:55 AM Loetmichel: so you have to take more time adjusting them right before using the machine
11:55 AM roycroft: a hiwin the same length will be over double that cost
11:55 AM Loetmichel: but the SBRs CAN be as precise as a Hiwin rail
11:55 AM roycroft: i can buy four sbr bearing blocks for <$20
11:55 AM roycroft: if they wear out fast i can replace them several times before i have invested as much as getting hiwin
11:56 AM roycroft: and this won't be a production machine
11:56 AM roycroft: it will be an occasional use machine
11:56 AM Loetmichel: and Hiwin also needs a precision milled "slot" to fit in if you want maximum precison
11:56 AM Loetmichel: they bend otherwise
11:56 AM Loetmichel: and are not "straight"
11:56 AM Loetmichel: If you know what i mean
11:56 AM roycroft: my understanding is that none of them arrive straigh
11:56 AM roycroft: t
11:56 AM Loetmichel: indeed
11:56 AM roycroft: straightness is achieved through measurement and shimming
11:57 AM Loetmichel: or through having a "slot" milled into the machine where the Hiwin rail fits in snugly so it will be "straighened"
11:57 AM Loetmichel: thats how the pro machines usually do it
11:57 AM Loetmichel: and thats also why the lower part of the hiwin rails are precision ground, too
11:57 AM Loetmichel: not only the top part
11:58 AM roycroft: on my $2k budget, my back of napkin figures indicate that i can probably build the y axis for $500, the gantry sides for $200, x axis for $300, and z axis for $500
11:58 AM roycroft: if i use sbr rails
11:58 AM roycroft: that leaves $500 for miscellaneous stuff
11:58 AM roycroft: if i go with hiwin that budget is busted
11:59 AM roycroft: z axis includes the spindle and vfd, btw
11:59 AM roycroft: if that's not obvious
11:59 AM FinboySlick: roycroft: My guess is that rigidity is going to do more for keeping tolerances than the choice between hiwin and sbr.
11:59 AM roycroft: i think the gantry sides are going to be the key to that
12:00 PM Loetmichel: what FinboySlick says
12:00 PM roycroft: and based on discussions here recently, i'm leaning towards making torsion box gantry sides, with two layers of 3/8" aluminium plate and some 1/2" aluminium flat bar sandwiched in between
12:00 PM roycroft: 1/2" just so i have plenty of room to drill and tap into the edges and use reasonable size fasteners
12:01 PM roycroft: i'm thinking the flat bar will be 1" or 1-1/2" wide
12:01 PM roycroft: i want to keep it as narrow as possible but also as rigid as possible
12:02 PM FinboySlick: If you're going to 'bootstrap' it, build your longest axis first, tune it perfectly, use it to mill your next longest axis.
12:02 PM Loetmichel: a 1" torsion box is nearly as rigid as a 1" massive aluminium part.
12:02 PM Loetmichel: that should do for your size machine
12:02 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: just a hint.... be sure to design/build in adjustment features for flatness and squareness, all 3 planes and axes..............
12:03 PM Loetmichel: roguish[m]: also features to easily shim/adjust the SPRs
12:03 PM Loetmichel: SBRs
12:03 PM roycroft: i like jeremy schmidt's catch phrase - "if you can't make it perfect, make it adjustable"
12:03 PM Loetmichel: VERY true, roycroft
12:03 PM roguish[m]: shims are ok, one approach.
12:04 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: see to it that you have a way to MEASURE how "straight" your rails are though
12:04 PM Loetmichel: doesent help if you can shim/adjust it and dont know where
12:04 PM roycroft: i unfortunately do not have a precison straight edge long enough to span the entire y axis
12:04 PM roycroft: but i do have a 3' starrett precision straight edge
12:04 PM roycroft: that will help
12:05 PM Loetmichel: borrow one for initial adjustment
12:05 PM roguish[m]: Loetmichel: it's all in expectations and requirements of accuracy
12:05 PM roycroft: i really have no idea where i'd even go to ask about borrowing/renting a 6' precision straight edge
12:05 PM roycroft: the local machine shops here are very difficult to talk to
12:05 PM Loetmichel: roguish[m]: have you seen the machine i built from "siebdruckplatte"?
12:06 PM roycroft: almost openly hostile
12:06 PM Loetmichel: shimming/adjusting tose SBRs was quite the task
12:06 PM roycroft: that's why jt made my motor mounting plate for my mill
12:06 PM roguish[m]: no
12:06 PM roycroft: i could not get any local machine shop to even discuss it with me
12:06 PM FinboySlick: If you have a lot of time, you can try to get by with the overlap method, for twice the length of your straight edge, you can probably stay relatively true.
12:06 PM roycroft: finboyslick: i think i can do it with what i have
12:07 PM Loetmichel: roguish[m]: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
12:07 PM roycroft: but yes, it's going to be fiddly and time-consuming
12:07 PM roycroft: and again, while my wish is to hold 0.001" with this machine, my expectation is 0.003", which i think should be quite doable
12:07 PM roguish[m]: Loetmichel: looks ok. all depends on what you need and want.
12:07 PM FinboySlick: roycroft: Caregul not to fall into a 'chasing your tail' loop too. Sometimes trying to get that extra 0.0005 is what messes you up.
12:07 PM FinboySlick: *careful
12:08 PM Loetmichel: yeah, point was that it was a PITA to adjust the axis because of no straight reference
12:08 PM roycroft: and i don't need to do 100ipm rapids
12:08 PM roguish[m]: if that works for you, it's great
12:08 PM Loetmichel: took us a while to get a 2m precision level to use as a straight edge
12:08 PM roycroft: finboyslick: this is a router, not a mill
12:08 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: now you're talking. being reasonable is really important
12:09 PM roycroft: five tenths is not even worth discussing
12:09 PM roycroft: it's completely unnecessary
12:09 PM roycroft: if i'm honest, if things don't go to plan, and i can only hold 0.010" initially, it won't be the end of the world
12:09 PM roycroft: but i really want 0.003"
12:09 PM roycroft: that's the goal
12:10 PM Loetmichel: on these kind of lightweight gantry machines its also not achieveable unless you mill VERY slow and with low forces.
12:10 PM roycroft: the differnce is that 0.010" means some sanding after the part comes off the machine, while 0.003" means it's ready to go off the machine
12:10 PM Loetmichel: because they just "spring" to much otherwise
12:10 PM roycroft: well some jobs may not require that precision, and can be run faster
12:10 PM roycroft: where precision is needed, i'd just run slower
12:11 PM roguish[m]: Loetmichel: I like your old monitor in the photo
12:11 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: i meant 0.001" precision
12:11 PM Loetmichel: 0.01" is easily doable even at high speeds
12:11 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: What would you say is your main advantage to go dual motor on X? Would there be too much inertia in a belt that catches both screws?
12:12 PM Loetmichel: x?
12:12 PM Loetmichel: you mean y?
12:12 PM roguish[m]: managing needs and expectations is the most difficult jog, but the most important.
12:12 PM Loetmichel: as in the "gantry moving axis"?
12:12 PM FinboySlick: Yeah.
12:12 PM FinboySlick: The axis with dual motors anyway ;)
12:13 PM Loetmichel: FinboySlick: mostly: more torque to move the gantry
12:13 PM roycroft: my understanding, and my thinking as well, is that the axis along which the gantry slides is usually designated at the y
12:13 PM roycroft: as the y, rather
12:13 PM Loetmichel: but apparently it runs well on one stepper, too... until the sync belt on the back breaks
12:13 PM roycroft: i'm still not sure about that
12:13 PM Loetmichel: Thats what destroyed the last machine i made
12:14 PM roycroft: this is the first i've ever heard about crashing the gantry when a motor goes out
12:14 PM Loetmichel: sold it to a model shop, they ran it until one of the y drivers failed, then ran it more until the belt broke
12:14 PM Loetmichel: -> pulled the gantry apart in a million splinters
12:14 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: Oh, you have a belt between the two screws as well?
12:15 PM Loetmichel: FinboySlick: yes
12:15 PM Loetmichel: on the other side
12:15 PM roycroft: finboyslick: i've never seen that nor heard of it before a couple days ago when loetmichel was talking about his
12:16 PM roycroft: i'm certainly no expert on cnc routers, but when he mentioned it i that that i should probably at least heard of that design feature before
12:16 PM FinboySlick: I've seen dual motors on gantry machines, but I always assumed they were just electronically synched.
12:16 PM roycroft: and yeah, i was just thinking after our conversation the other day
12:16 PM Loetmichel: I will always advocate TWO ballscrews for the gantry though
12:16 PM roycroft: if i did that sync belt thing, i would not need double ended motor shafts
12:16 PM Loetmichel: its a LOT more rigid than having one in the center under the table
12:16 PM roycroft: i'd mount the motors at one end, and the sync gears and belt at the other end
12:17 PM Loetmichel: you can do that
12:17 PM roycroft: and i am absolutely going to have a 2 joint y axis
12:17 PM Loetmichel: or do the sync on the other end of the ballscrews
12:17 PM roguish[m]: how about a central motor, with synch belts to a screw on each side.
12:17 PM roycroft: but i was planning on just electronically synching them
12:17 PM roycroft: that's what i mean, loetmichel
12:17 PM roycroft: the sync gears on the "far" ends of the ball screws
12:17 PM Loetmichel: roguish[m]: thats ok, if you can get them to behave
12:17 PM roycroft: so the motors will be a the rear end of the y axis, and the sync gears at the front end
12:18 PM Loetmichel: i had a few problems with the long sync belt on the back and ended up doing it with two half size belts
12:18 PM Loetmichel: (fluttering, sounds at high speeds)
12:18 PM roguish[m]: I like synch belts. good quality ones. well sized and adjusted.
12:18 PM roycroft: i don't like the space they would take up at the front of the machine
12:18 PM FinboySlick: I think my take would be a central motor with a dual pulley, half length belt to each screw.
12:19 PM roguish[m]: put 'em at the back
12:19 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7080&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
12:19 PM roycroft: my application is somewhat unique, as i need to use the "machine" as a conventional router table as well as a cnc router
12:19 PM roguish[m]: FinboySlick: that's what I mean
12:19 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7086&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
12:19 PM roycroft: finboyslick: that's something to consider
12:20 PM roycroft: i need at least one more motor anyway
12:20 PM roycroft: i could just get a nema 34 motor with a bit more power than the ones i have to drive the y
12:20 PM roguish[m]: a single motor is just so much simpler
12:20 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: stepper or ac or dc?
12:20 PM roycroft: actually, if i went with a single motor i have enough already
12:20 PM roycroft: i have some 425 oz/in steppers
12:20 PM FinboySlick: roguish[m]: Don't get him started on the AC motor thing ;)
12:21 PM roycroft: oh, i have that sorted now, finboyslick
12:21 PM roycroft: i know that dc motors are really ac :)
12:21 PM Loetmichel: roguish[m]: why is a single motor simpler?
12:21 PM roycroft: that's all moot now anyway, because i just put a 2hp 3 phase motor on my mill
12:22 PM roycroft: completely replacing the original motor setup
12:22 PM roguish[m]: i'm way more a mechanical than electrical...... I've had issues in the past slaving motors.
12:22 PM FinboySlick: It seems simpler electronically, but it's a lot easier to have complexity in the control rather than in the mechanics. There's a good argument for dual-motors.
12:22 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: DC motors are just AC motors with internal commutation
12:22 PM Loetmichel: they generate the "ac" themselves ;)
12:23 PM roycroft: right, i knew that already
12:23 PM roycroft: the issue was what you feed the motor
12:24 PM roycroft: an "ac" motor takes ac in, while a "dc" motor takes dc in and converts it internally
12:24 PM Loetmichel: yes
12:24 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: I was thinking two pulleys on a central shaft but I guess your more elaborate way is better for tensioning.
12:24 PM roycroft: where i got confused was with "bldc" motors
12:24 PM Loetmichel: that was the idea, FinboySlick
12:24 PM roycroft: which claim to be "dc" motors, but you actually feed them ac power
12:24 PM Loetmichel: "spanner" in german means tensioner (in this context)
12:25 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: yeah, BLDC have no brushes, so the commutate electronically
12:25 PM Loetmichel: resulting in basically three phase AC at the motor
12:25 PM roycroft: yes
12:25 PM roycroft: i finally figured that out
12:26 PM roycroft: but my brain was really stuck on "it's a bldc motor, so i need a dc controller for it"
12:26 PM Loetmichel: an using the back induction in the unused coils to "sense" where the rotor is
12:26 PM Loetmichel: BLDC controllers are basically small VFDs
12:26 PM roycroft: but as i said, i bypassed the whole issue by using a 3phase motor i had in stock, buying a vfd for it, and ripping out the existing motor/control stuff
12:27 PM FinboySlick: What's that whole 'turn BLDC into servo' controller called again? odrive?
12:28 PM Loetmichel: fun fact: BLDC controllers with a "heli mode" (fixed frequency, no backfeed needed) CAN drive 3ph AC motors
12:28 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Mill-Motor-Mount/
12:28 PM Loetmichel: FinboySlick: yes
12:28 PM roycroft: i haven't taken any pictures since i completed that
12:28 PM roycroft: but that's the new motor mounted on the machine
12:28 PM FinboySlick: Anyone played with them? I really like the idea even though I guess one shouldn't get their hopes up.
12:29 PM Loetmichel: FinboySlick: look in the reprap corner
12:29 PM Loetmichel: a lot of high performance 3dprinters use them
12:29 PM roycroft: in the second picture, the old motor is hanging down below the new one
12:30 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: nice domain.......
12:32 PM roycroft: it works for me
12:33 PM roycroft: i actually just sold a really nice domain that i'd owned since 1992
12:33 PM roycroft: i'd rather not disclose the name, but it is a three letter .com domain - the last of those that i owned
12:33 PM roguish[m]: I have rodes.biz
12:34 PM roycroft: i've been somewhat frugal with the proceeds, but that sale is what has been funding my equipment/tool upgrades over the past few weeks
12:35 PM roycroft: i still own several three letter .net and .org domains, but those do not have nearly as much value as .com domains
12:35 PM roycroft: but some of them are still worth some money
12:35 PM roycroft: if my car died and i needed to replace it i could probably sell one of them and cash out the new car
12:37 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: Looking into it... I'm half expecting the controller to post its position on Twitter, didn't expect a full blown WebUI on a motor controller but that's probably just me being old school.
12:38 PM Loetmichel: hihi
12:43 PM FinboySlick: They're surprisingly cheap though, definitely competes with steppers at that price point if perhaps a bit more work.
12:50 PM roycroft: i think i know enough about what i want to build now that i can start making models in solidworks
12:50 PM roycroft: so perhaps in a week or so i'll have some preliminary drawings that i can post for criticism/feedback
12:51 PM roycroft: i still have some more pondering to do about the y axis drive system
01:19 PM Tom_L: pere, http://www.memexoee.com/wp-content/uploads/old/M100772-MAZAK-M-PLUS-T-PLUS-Memory-Upgrade-Instructions.pdf
01:19 PM Tom_L: might have a clue to your parameters. it may be too new for yours also
01:21 PM Tom_L: also: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/mazak-mitsubishi-mazatrol/333779-software.html
01:24 PM Tom_L: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/mazak/mazak-hidden-parameters-137202/
01:29 PM roycroft: a word to the wise: NEVER search for contractors on angi.com
01:30 PM Tom_L: that was random
01:30 PM roycroft: i did so, when i could not get any of the contractors i've worked with in the past to find the time to deal with me
01:30 PM roycroft: and the spam started rolling in immediately
01:30 PM roycroft: i unsubscribed to everything, have verified that i'm unsubscribed, but i'm still receiving a half dozen nag emails/day asking about my project
01:31 PM roycroft: i'm ready to just block angi.com at my spam filter service
01:31 PM roycroft: if you enjoy receiving spam, you know where to get it
01:33 PM * roycroft just received three emails from them within the past half hour, and so it was not random for him, but can see how others might see it as such
01:38 PM pere: Tom_L: thanks. I've tried the F3 method, but the F3 button seem to be disabled. Will try the 1131 method next time.
02:08 PM roycroft: does anyone have advice on the spacing of the front and rear bearing blocks on my gantry sides?
02:08 PM roycroft: a ratio of height to width would be fine
02:09 PM roycroft: i'm planning on mounting the centerline of the spindle in the middle of the bearing block span
02:10 PM miss0r: 'evening
02:18 PM miss0r: Have any of you guys got any experience with dual mosfet drivers(high and low side driving)? I'm looking at this schematic: https://docs.rs-online.com/7f11/0900766b807910be.pdf The reason I want to do this, is because I the induction(fly-back) voltage I get will exceed the 600volts rating on my single mosfets, so I would like to double that by having two of them in series. What I cannot understand from this schematic,
02:18 PM miss0r: is how this driver will handle the inductance from said setup. I can tell it will allow a supply voltage of up to 600 volts - but what about the flyback - Can a smarter person than me help here?
02:29 PM rs[m]: miss0r: why do you get 600V
02:30 PM miss0r: rs[m]: The upmost "typical connection" diagram
02:32 PM rs[m]: i guess that was not clear... why do you get more than 600V on the mosfet
02:32 PM miss0r: the reverse voltage from the inductor
02:35 PM miss0r: so basically I'm trying to collapse the magnetic field of an inductor as fast as possible. At the moment I am snupping ~200a with a diode and a 5ohm resistor, which equates to around 1200 volts. This just has the oposide polarity of the mosfets. The mosfest I have can handle up to 600volts reverse, so they go tits up
02:36 PM miss0r: if I go and change the 5ohm resistor to a 2.5 I would effectively half the inductance spike, but I would double the time it would take for the field to collapse, so I am looking at the option of just using two mosfets in series. hence the need for a high & low side driver. But I cannot for the life of me figure out what I am looking for to make sure it can work, now that I saw that diagram
02:36 PM rs[m]: 1 ohm resistor?
02:37 PM miss0r: rs[m]: Indeed, but it is a balancing act, I want the field to collapse as fast as possible
02:39 PM rs[m]: 1200v mosfets do exist
02:39 PM miss0r: yes, but they are expensive when you also need alot of current
02:43 PM rs[m]: i don't think those half-bridge drivers will help
02:44 PM miss0r: how so?
02:45 PM rs[m]: you would have to connect the "to load" wires and put the load on the drain of the upper mosfet
02:46 PM rs[m]: and put two resistors parallel to the mosfets to get the same potential over both mosfets
02:47 PM rs[m]: but maybe i'm completely off. my chat client got triggered by the link to rs-components, it mistakes it for the nickname
02:47 PM miss0r: any reason I can't just add my inductor coil between the "to load" outputs? that would still equate two mosfets in serial
02:47 PM miss0r: lol
02:47 PM miss0r: serial=series
02:51 PM rs[m]: miss0r: can you draw a schematic of your current situation and how you would rewire that with 2 mosfets
02:54 PM miss0r: rs[m]: This is a simplified version of what I currently have: https://tinyurl.com/y4nuerl3
02:54 PM miss0r: Instead of the battery and the two resistors for driving the mosfet, I use an uptocoupler and a gate-driver IC
02:56 PM miss0r: And this is how I would add anotherone, using the high-low side driver https://tinyurl.com/y4vzlu2g
02:59 PM rs[m]: why should that influence the voltage over the lower mosfet?
03:00 PM rs[m]: you want to put the two mosfets in series, and add some resistors parallel to define potential on the drain-source connetion
03:00 PM miss0r: well, to have a voltage over 'the lower mosfet' the circuit would have to go through 'the upper mosfet' as well, effectively connecting them in series
03:00 PM miss0r: or am I way out in the woods here?
03:06 PM rs[m]: are you turning the upper mosfet off? what's going to happen with the decay-current then?
03:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: miss0r: https://matrix.to/#/!cDFnRwwDKonnkXEuva:libera.chat?via=libera.chat&via=matrix.org&via=0x2c.org
03:07 PM miss0r: rs[m]: Excellent question
03:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they love this stuff, one of the guys there even wrote that java based spice app
03:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they even love debugging partial schematics
03:08 PM rs[m]: miss0r: i think if you turn the upper mosfet up voltage will rise until upper mosfet becomes a conductor
03:08 PM rs[m]: s/up/off/
03:09 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight[m]. Thanks. I will look into that
03:09 PM miss0r: rs[m]: But what if I turn both of them off at the same time? which is my intention
03:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ^^ most common mistake with this design
03:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or full h with all mosfets on at same time :)
03:12 PM rs[m]: miss0r: if you turn off upper mosfet, decay current has no way to go
03:12 PM miss0r: well, I want them both to be on at the same time. What I want is a way to make two 600volt rated mosfets handle an induction spike of 1.1kv
03:13 PM rs[m]: miss0r: put the second mosfet in series of the first, connect inductor to "upper" mosfet, put two 1M resistors over D-S on the mosfets
03:13 PM miss0r: rs[m]: I see it now lol. it was supposed to look like this: https://tinyurl.com/yy35nz8x
03:13 PM rs[m]: i can't deal with this falstad stuff
03:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: isn't it a terrible GUI?
03:14 PM miss0r: exactly so bad that I stand a chance of using it, yes
03:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he even made things right click vs left click just for fun
03:14 PM rs[m]: it turns my laptop into a lapheater
03:14 PM rs[m]: contraception device
03:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Paul Falstad is the creator
03:14 PM miss0r: rs[m]: And the reason I want to use a gate driver in there is to get a realy quick rise of current flow through the mosfets
03:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: beware of them
03:16 PM rs[m]: how do i get a new url from modified schematics
03:17 PM miss0r: rs[m]: Go to file, export as link, create short link and copy
03:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i non longer trust the math behind it since the UI is so poor
03:18 PM miss0r: so is the math to be honnest
03:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I no/i non
03:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they all seem to use it in that channel
03:18 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight[m]: This is what the contraption looks like at the moment: https://imgur.com/a/kwFalRb
03:19 PM * CaptHindsight[m] refuses to put his eyes on that site since I have serious work to do later
03:19 PM rs[m]: i would try it like this https://tinyurl.com/y6fm5rd2
03:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's like getting stuck behind a garbage truck in traffic mid july
03:21 PM miss0r: rs[m]: I guess that would work
03:21 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight[m]: its *ONE* photo, and its even low res
03:21 PM miss0r: I think you can handle it ;)
03:22 PM rs[m]: the bootstrapping of the gate driver may not work if you connect it like that
03:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: NO, it's 50F outside for one more day and the sun sets in 1 hour
03:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: going out and you can't stop me!
03:23 PM miss0r: b...but! ! :D
03:23 PM miss0r: rs[m]: hmm.. I guess I could connect the mosfets like so, and still use a dual gate driver
03:24 PM miss0r: Not sure I would need those two 2M resistors when the gate driver does its thing
03:24 PM rs[m]: miss0r: thos should make sure that voltage is divided evenly and not e.g. 700V/500V
03:25 PM miss0r: man I am in way over my head here :)
03:25 PM miss0r: I just want to use electronics to throw stuff :D
03:26 PM miss0r: I guess I should realy hunker down with my old electronics books and do some reading - I hate not understanding what I am doing... Getting answers is realy nice and much appreciated, but if I don't understand the why I don't like it :)
03:26 PM miss0r: how/why
03:26 PM rs[m]: hehe. I don't either. caveat emptor.
03:27 PM miss0r: indeed
03:27 PM miss0r: and yes, I had to google that phrase :)
03:28 PM rs[m]: ;)
03:28 PM rs[m]: maybe the resistors are not really necessary
03:34 PM miss0r: i mean, falstad works without'em as well.. But falstad is not realy representative of the truth
03:34 PM miss0r: and the mosfets I use cost $11us, so I don't want to just keep throwing them onto the fire
03:34 PM Tom_L: still trying to curl your hair with mosfets ehh?
03:34 PM miss0r: Tom_L: You know I am :)
03:34 PM miss0r: (its funny 'cause I'm bald.... )
03:34 PM Tom_L: that would be a real trick
03:34 PM miss0r: Might even make me right
03:34 PM miss0r: rich*
03:34 PM miss0r: Tom_L: This is the current status of the contraption: https://imgur.com/a/kwFalRb
03:36 PM miss0r: I'm trying to make a better version of one I build many years ago, which was just about unloading a metric ton of energy stored in a ridiculous cap bank, into a single coil and hope nothing goes boom.
03:36 PM miss0r: This time I'm doing it the elegant way... making mosfets go boom all day long, baby
03:36 PM Tom_L: seems you may have reached your goal
03:37 PM miss0r: it would seem so, yeah :-/
03:40 PM rs[m]: https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/sct20n170.pdf
03:41 PM miss0r: rs[m]: Indeed. I would just need to put a few in parallel to handle the current spike, but that thing could work
03:41 PM rs[m]: probably unobtanium at the moment
03:41 PM miss0r: nice, the input capacitance is only 1568 pF.. my driver could easily handle 3 or four in parallel
03:42 PM miss0r: yup. I'm quite limited to what sort I can get, sadly
03:42 PM miss0r: Damn this world pandemic and or other reasons!
03:44 PM rs[m]: miss0r: you could try big old GTO thyristors. or a triggered spark gap.
03:46 PM miss0r: rs[m]: the thyristor is out of the question because I want to be able to have a shorter or longer pulse going to the coil, and the thyristor would drain the cap before turning off. the spark gap - though cool - would make it hard for me to time the stages as the projectile moves along
03:46 PM miss0r: that and I'm only running it at 48 volts
03:48 PM miss0r: I just had to go and start a project like this when the components I want/need is off limits :/
03:48 PM rs[m]: with these "switches" you would need just the right amount of charge and inductance at the right positions...
03:50 PM miss0r: At this point I'm still shitting my diapers(excuse my french), so trying to do that is a bit out of my league. I think i'll stick to frying mosfets for the time being :) I've gotten pretty good at it
03:51 PM miss0r: also; This is a test bench setup - at the point in time, its still unclear what coil configuration will be used. This is made so that they are easy to swap out, and I've made a bunch of different ones with different wire gauges/turn counts ect. Trying to figure out how to get the most effect out of it
03:52 PM miss0r: I'm calling it a night. Thanks for the help rs[m]. cya
03:53 PM rs[m]: yw. good night
03:55 PM JT-Shop: today I was pretty happy to get the 3 phase breakers installed in the way to small space of a copy lathe while laying on a sawdust covered floor and having sawdust raining down on me
03:56 PM Tom_L: good it wasn't a welding shop
03:56 PM JT-Shop: only had to make one trip home to scrounge some 8 awg hookup wire
03:56 PM JT-Shop: LOL you bet
03:57 PM JT-Shop: he only runs the copy lathe that I converted to plc because it runs like it's supposed to
03:58 PM JT-Shop: #3 only runs in manual, #1 and #2 don't work at all... well #2 will shortly
03:58 PM Tom_L: you will double his production
03:59 PM Tom_L: how many do they have?
03:59 PM JT-Shop: 4
03:59 PM JT-Shop: he can run 4 at a time plus one other machine
04:04 PM roguish[m]: JT-Shop: ain't retirement hell ???
04:04 PM roycroft: what does "retirement" mean?
04:04 PM roycroft: that word is not familiar to me
04:05 PM roguish[m]: same here, really.
04:06 PM Tom_L: alot of retirees i've talked to either went back or were called back to work
04:06 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: retirement is that what people like we get about a day before we croak our last breath
04:07 PM JT-Shop: actually it would be nice if work slowed down a bit... but the challenge is fun
04:08 PM JT-Shop: my wife understands the word "retirement" fully
04:08 PM JT-Shop: roguish[m], did you ever get an appointment at SS?
10:47 PM Bleepshop: Ahhh... You've got to love complete and total fecking idiots...
10:47 PM Bleepshop: They provide job security for those of us with mechanical apptitude... xD
10:47 PM * Bleepshop has fixed >$250K of equipment in the past week.
10:49 PM Bleepshop: Not $250K in my pocket unfortunately, but it's nice to fix 2 machines and save the company an outcall for a tech on the pair of them.
10:49 PM XXCoder: what happened to machine
10:52 PM Bleepshop: $80K surface sander, the PLC decided to lockup, I took it apart, dusted it out, made the comment that a pile of dogshit had more brains than the PLC and it could be replaced with a Pi-3B, put it back together and I guess I scared it or something, fired right up and runs fine now.
10:52 PM XXCoder: lol
10:53 PM Bleepshop: The other one is a 6-head molder that decided to toast a belt and act like a bad motor.
10:55 PM Bleepshop: 20HP motor, Had it off the machine and on a pallet for transport in <30 minutes. Spent >30 minutes waiting for the boss to help re-install it today, got pissed, grabbed the cherry-picker/engine-hoist, made a couple of mods to make it fit in the space nad remounted the motor solo...
10:55 PM Bleepshop: Boss wanders out "OK, Let's get this motor mounte... BASTARD!". LMAO
10:58 PM Bleepshop: Tomorrow I get a malfunctioning air compressor and a huge, NDA protected, propritary sawing unit to play with... And these idiots are paying me to have fun all day... xD
11:00 PM XXCoder: lol