#linuxcnc Logs
Nov 20 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:39 AM Guest85 is now known as MaPo
01:47 AM MaPo: /msg NickServ IDENTIFY MaPo mpongrat90
02:04 AM Deejay: moin
02:21 AM silopolis[m]: hi
02:23 AM silopolis[m]: been away for quite a while... wasn't this room bridged with #linuxcnc IRC channel ?
02:23 AM silopolis: hi :)
02:24 AM silopolis[m]: ok, looks like I answered myself ':D
03:04 AM XXCoder: lol
04:07 AM Tom_L: morning
04:45 AM silopolis: hello Tom_L
05:34 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:51 AM silopolis[m]: re, sorry mates, but could someone help dumber^Wme join #linuxcnc-devel from element please ?
06:01 AM silopolis[m]: I can join a #freenode_#linuxcnc-devel:matrix.org but this doesn't seem to be bridge with libera but freenode ?
06:24 AM miss0r: mornin
06:24 AM miss0r: well.. afternoon
06:57 AM t4nk_freenode: good evening, miss0r
08:03 AM Tom_L: silopolis[m], did you make it in the devel channel?
08:03 AM Tom_L: looks like it
09:51 AM Tom_L[m]: test
09:56 AM JT-Cave: fail
10:00 AM Tom_L: i never use riot client
10:00 AM Tom_L: but figured i bette update from freenode
10:27 AM Tom_L: ok maybe i can get a surround put in to day
10:27 AM JT-Cave: gotta get started someday
11:58 AM unterhaus: my brazing filler is going to be here today instead of Tuesday, which is nice
12:22 PM unterhaus: spoke too soon, unless the mailman comes back
01:36 PM unterhaus: I like overly honest suppliers, they threw in an extra ounce of silver in case the 5oz roll was short
02:08 PM miss0r: do you guys know of a free online circuit simulator that has a vast database of ICs?
02:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.falstad.com/circuit/
02:13 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight[m]: I've seen this one before, but I can't figure out how to add ICs in this setup. Like the 4N35 I need
02:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the free stuff is limited
02:13 PM miss0r: Indeed :) I will make do then
02:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: cliunky but many use it and suffer
02:15 PM miss0r: Knowing my project history, it should be clear to anyone that I like to suffer
02:23 PM perry_j1987: wow i havnt seen falstad in years heh
02:23 PM perry_j1987: forgot about it
03:09 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight[m]: Speaking about a circuit: https://tinyurl.com/yhrftwjv
03:09 PM miss0r: This is roughly what is happending.
03:10 PM miss0r: Although, the henry value of the coil is only an estimate at best
03:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: SCR's and diodes all switch at different rates
03:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: this is taught in the later classes
03:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: at first everything is ideal
03:12 PM miss0r: I still float around in this world :) (Not realy)
03:14 PM miss0r: At this point I am just curious about two things realy, 1) How much current am I even supposed to get across that fly-back diode (using the - not to alert a user that has the name without the - :) ) and 2) how can I reduce the time that fly-back diode takes/another solution to have the field collaps right fast in a hurry without pumping it back into the main capacitor
03:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the flyback should be a schottky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schottky_diode
03:17 PM miss0r: that is what I am using in my actual build. Is there even one in falstad? :)
03:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have used it in so long, wow is that an annoying spice sim
03:18 PM miss0r: :]
03:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: another reinvented wheel of a UI
03:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: did they never even use a GUI before they wrote this?
03:19 PM miss0r: hehe - I actualy am looking at ordering this beast for the next try: https://docs.rs-online.com/01d4/0900766b800a55eb.pdf
03:19 PM miss0r: I doubt it
03:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: are you blowing that diode up or the SCR?
03:21 PM miss0r: not that diode(the one in the link) That one is one I plan on implimenting instead of this one: https://docs.rs-online.com/1a78/0900766b81396eb4.pdf
03:21 PM miss0r: Those blew up. Even with 3 mounted in parallel
03:22 PM _unreal_: trying to figure out what I want to do with this newest satellite. really small
03:22 PM miss0r: I also fried two SCRs, trying to use them as fly-back diodes
03:23 PM _unreal_: ? why would you do that
03:23 PM _unreal_: I ... mean.....? REALLY
03:24 PM miss0r: _unreal_: Latenight coffee induced coma coupled with lack of components and understanding...? :)
03:24 PM _unreal_: so this sat... has a mono input/power coax setup
03:25 PM _unreal_: wish I could figure out how to power it...
03:25 PM _unreal_: prob just going to pull the steppers
03:26 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight[m]: That came out complicated :) I'm blowing up the diode. and at one point I had replaced that diode with a SCR, hoping it could handle it.
03:27 PM miss0r: but now that I am looking at the timing in the simulator, I am starting to get worried about the time it actualy takes to discharge over said diode. Is there a faster way?
03:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what is the resistance of the inductor?
03:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's all these little things that can add up to failure
03:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: internal resistance of the coil will limit current and charge/dis time
03:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: as for the SCR https://www.electrical4u.com/switching-of-on-off-characteristics-of-scr-turn-on-turn-off-time/
03:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARrh2YqMzwE
03:43 PM miss0r: coil1 is 0.076ohms coil2 is 0.189ohms
03:44 PM miss0r: But at this point those numbers are suvject to change, as I'm making quite a few different configurations to test out the performance
03:47 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight[m]: That video eksplains exactly what I am seeing, without the fly-back diode
03:51 PM miss0r: pere: Have you made any progress with your mazak?
03:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: miss0r: why not use mosfets vs SCR?
03:55 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight[m]: No real reason, I just had a bucket full of old SCRs.
03:56 PM miss0r: I have a few of these mosfets too: https://docs.rs-online.com/cf7a/A700000008175394.pdf
03:56 PM miss0r: But I am not quite sure they will survive dumping a 400volt 4700uf cap into a coil with such a low resistance
04:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/t67g8z/mosfet-switching-inductive-loads/
04:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://afrotechmods.com/tutorials/2011/11/28/inductive-spiking-tutorial/
04:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: miss0r: what voltage is the supply?
04:04 PM miss0r: 450volts, and it shuts off at 400volts across the cap
04:06 PM miss0r: Looking at the tutorials you sent - I understand why I need a fly-back diode. But I have two worries about it :) 1) get one that can actualy survive the conditions 2) Perhaps the magnetic field takes too long to collapse with just a simple diode in there - perhaps I need to come up with another way
04:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh man you're going to have really high current spikes
04:07 PM miss0r: yeah
04:07 PM miss0r: through the roof
04:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: use my simulator link just above
04:08 PM miss0r: https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/t67g8z/mosfet-switching-inductive-loads/ <- that one?
04:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: lower resistance inductor
04:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: miss0r: yeah
04:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: should tell you all for using the mosfets
04:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you don't want the SCR for industive loads
04:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: inductive even
04:12 PM miss0r: right. I'll give those mosfets a go - that was the plan from the start anyway. The first idea was to do a 3-stage coil gun, with optical switches along the barrel to activate the next stage as the projectile moves along. This was to be powered by a 50 volt power supply charging 20mF caps to 48 volts.
04:12 PM pere: miss0r: yeah, and no. discovered that the buttons on the chip conveyer belt was only for controlling the motor on the belt, and had no emergency stop. but also discovered the battery connected to one of the boards is dead.
04:13 PM miss0r: The only reason I started doing this crazy setup was because I was waiting for parts to do the "low voltage" one. And I hate not understanding why I am failing.. I mean, I fail often enough, but usualy I understand why and can live with it :D
04:14 PM miss0r: pere: Damn. In that case you'd need someone who can reinsert the parameters lost. Most likely only the absolute position of the machine. But before that is done, you are most likely not allowed to do anything.
04:15 PM pere: miss0r: oh.
04:16 PM miss0r: pere: Well, you were planning on converting it to linux CNC, right? At this point, the way I see it anyway, is that you are having issues with the controllers/servo drives. All of which I assume you were planning to change out to run the linuxcnc system ?
04:17 PM pere: first I wanted to verify it was working.
04:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: calling all cheapskates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD2_JvOSx7s
04:19 PM pere: miss0r: what make adding parameters so hard?
04:19 PM miss0r: pere: What part of it? Clearly you'd have to invest some time and perhaps even money in getting the old electronics working, only to replace them down the line. If I were you, I'd do a visual inspection of all mechanical parts(ballscrews, linear guides & bearings) also, listen to the main spindle for bad noises. If all of those things check out, just go ahead and build :)
04:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://owlcation.com/stem/Isaac-Newtons-Three-Laws-of-Motion what we need is a cheap CNC that bypasses Newtons Laws
04:19 PM miss0r: pere: not if you know the procedure - I personally don't. and the people who do will most likely charge to do so
04:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "for every force applied, there is always an equal and opposite reaction." break this law and we can have CNC machines made of paper
04:20 PM miss0r: capt, I can't make that simulator of yours output numbers that are in the ballpark of 'bad'. What are you getting?
04:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sorry I'm not even here
04:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I left several minutes ago
04:21 PM miss0r: hehe :)
04:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sun sets in 15 minutes and I haven't seen light yet today
04:24 PM miss0r: sunlight is overrated anyway :-]
04:32 PM miss0r: I'm calling it a night. see you around
04:32 PM Tom_L: bye bye
04:32 PM XXCoder: later
04:39 PM infornography: how are you peeps using linuxcnc for spindle control?
04:39 PM infornography: I see PWM out on the step config wizard
04:39 PM Tom_L: analog out
04:39 PM Tom_L: pwm? from the mesa card
04:40 PM infornography: analog out? how are you doing that?
04:40 PM infornography: is there a VFD?
04:40 PM JT-Shop: my peeps just listen to music all day and lay eggs
04:41 PM Tom_L: yes i've got a vfd
04:41 PM Tom_L: controlled with 0-10v
04:42 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, your peeps are so spoiled they should be laying colored easter eggs
04:42 PM JT-Shop: one of mine is a servo the other is vfd and it's controlled over modbus
04:43 PM Tom_L: surround mostly in
04:43 PM JT-Shop: my neighbor has some hens that lay colored eggs
04:43 PM Tom_L: heh
04:43 PM JT-Shop: nice got a photo of the disaster area
04:50 PM _unreal_: I love disasters
04:53 PM t4nk_freenode: then come see my wiring.
04:53 PM Flyer007: 7i76e with vfd
04:53 PM Flyer007: Analog
04:54 PM Flyer007: Anyone running a vistacnc ps4 mpg?
04:56 PM _unreal_: I doubt many in here are PS4 players
04:57 PM Flyer007: Lol....hand mpg. http://www.vistacnc.com/
04:58 PM pere: miss0r: all of it. I've never operated a CNC before, never rebuilt to LinuxCNC, never maintained a mill before, and thus wanted to take it step by step. :)
04:58 PM Flyer007: My typo. P4s
05:12 PM _unreal_: got a bunch of these CRS03-02 sensors
05:32 PM _unreal_: not very active tonight
05:39 PM t4nk_freenode: sure we are
05:40 PM t4nk_freenode: aint got time to chat :)
05:40 PM _unreal_: just finished pulling apart an other satellite
05:40 PM _unreal_: really small one
05:41 PM _unreal_: the controller has a bunch of FPGA chips on it
05:41 PM _unreal_: xlinks type
05:41 PM t4nk_freenode: you mean xilinx
05:42 PM _unreal_: ya
05:42 PM t4nk_freenode: weren't the dishes worth more intact?
05:42 PM _unreal_: no
05:42 PM _unreal_: generally the super yachts get rid of them because they are failing
05:44 PM _unreal_: the main failures are bearings in the servos, or power control. or radio failure
05:46 PM _unreal_: many many good parts on them though
05:46 PM * _unreal_ wonders if t4nk_freenode is still gathering "parts" using the hot air station?
05:51 PM t4nk_freenode: nah, I got so many projects already
05:51 PM t4nk_freenode: for which I aint got time
05:54 PM _unreal_: got a $500 vacuum last week
05:54 PM _unreal_: one of the yachts tossed it out
05:55 PM _unreal_: its a shark DUO something
05:55 PM _unreal_: daughter is using it right now so I dont know the model
05:56 PM _unreal_: cordless too
05:57 PM roguish[m]: are you still dumpster diving?
06:01 PM _unreal_: ALWAYS
06:01 PM _unreal_: are you kidding
06:01 PM _unreal_: its a gold mine
06:01 PM _unreal_: in my industry
06:01 PM _unreal_: hell my latest find was...
06:02 PM _unreal_: https://www.amazon.com/HP-Officejet-8620/dp/B00MP32UN0/ref=asc_df_B00MP32UN0?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=79852124147650&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583451671144362&psc=1
06:02 PM _unreal_: one of those
06:49 PM unterhausen: JT-Shop, did you see the email list about the person that can't login to the forum?
08:53 PM roycroft: i got my mill controller mostly installed today
08:53 PM XXCoder: nice
08:53 PM roycroft: i'll finish the wiring tomorrow, and then the mill should be fuctional again
08:53 PM roycroft: unless i have a blue smoke moment
08:54 PM roycroft: which i am not anticipating will happen
08:54 PM XXCoder: hope for best, plan for worse heh
08:55 PM Flyer007: Nice. Which controller?
08:55 PM roycroft: i'm using a huanyang vfd with a 2hp 3 phase motor
08:56 PM roycroft: "controller" may be a slight misnomer
08:56 PM roycroft: i'm talking about the junction box where i wire things
08:56 PM roycroft: roycroft.us/Panel.jpeg
08:57 PM roycroft: it's a manual mill at the moment
08:57 PM Flyer007: Ohh I like it. I'm running a gt vfd with a 3hp 3phase
08:58 PM Flyer007: Wired to mesa 7i76e via analog
08:58 PM Flyer007: Mill is an alliant rt2 bridgeport clone
08:59 PM roycroft: the machine is a sieg x3 clone, and the original drive train was a dc motor and a proprietary controller, which could not be managed by linuxcnc
08:59 PM roycroft: the control board blew up, and i got it repaired, and it blew up again
08:59 PM roycroft: the person who rebuilt it suggested my motor might be bad
08:59 PM roycroft: so after the second time i just replaced it
08:59 PM Flyer007: Ouch.
09:00 PM roycroft: when i do my cnc conversion, linuxcnc will be able to talk to the vfd, so this is a definite upgrade
09:00 PM roycroft: and i already had the motor in stock
09:00 PM roycroft: so the cost was fairly low
09:00 PM roycroft: i also went from 3/4hp to 2hp
09:01 PM roycroft: and while i don't have my hall sensor installed yet and can't tell the exact speed i'm running at (although i could calculate it if i could be bothered to do so), i'm sure i able to run at <100rpm with good torque, based on some testing i did
09:02 PM Flyer007: That is the supposed benefit of using a vfd
09:04 PM Flyer007: On my various speed mill, I dial in 2200rpm at full 60hz and don't see any torque issue down 20hz.
09:04 PM roycroft: this is a new version of the huang yang vfd for me - i have several others
09:04 PM roycroft: but they are all the hy type
09:04 PM roycroft: this one is my first gt
09:04 PM roycroft: and the gt is supposed to deliver more torque at low frequency
09:04 PM Flyer007: That's why I went gt
09:05 PM roycroft: on things like a router or belt grinder it's not important
09:05 PM Flyer007: And possible modbus in future
09:05 PM roycroft: i never run my belt grinder below 1500rpm
09:05 PM roycroft: and i never run my router spindle below about 12000rpm
09:05 PM roycroft: so hy is fine for those applications
09:05 PM roycroft: but mills like to run at really low spindle speeds at times
09:07 PM roycroft: when i put a 3 phase motor and vfd on my lathe it will definitely be a gt
09:08 PM Flyer007: I'm looking for a cnc lathe now
09:08 PM roycroft: neither my mill nor my lathe are cnc at the moment
09:09 PM roycroft: i'm working on a cnc router build currently, and when that's done i hope to finally do the cnc conversion of my mill
09:09 PM roycroft: the lathe i'll probably keep manual, though