Nov 09 2021
12:54 AM XXCoder1 is now known as XXCoder
01:01 AM Deejay: moin
01:35 AM randy: morning
01:48 AM CaptHindsight[m]: http://cncmanual.com/download/2015/190115/Secretsof5AxisMachining.pdf
05:15 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:53 AM Tom_L: morning
05:59 AM Tom_L: hi 63F
06:00 AM Tom_L: finally got the dowel pin working in my post
06:00 AM Tom_L: it wouldn't take 0 as a spindle speed in the tool section
06:02 AM Tom_L: finally figured out it would take .001 and round it down to 0
07:17 AM JT-Cave: dowel pin?
08:00 AM JT-Cave: some guy just bought 12 7i96's a THCAD-5 and 5 THCAD-10's
08:58 AM unterhaus: comcast is making me wish verizon could figure out how to run fiber 300 feet from the main road to our house
09:00 AM unterhaus: at&t goes out at the same time as comcast, so I guess one of them contracts with the other for internet
09:15 AM aaroncnc: i seem to be disconnecting alot lately.
09:48 AM roguish[m]: good morning, from a soggy Bay Area......but nice.
10:06 AM roycroft: it has not started raining here yet, but soon
10:14 AM roycroft[m]: Do any of you folks use PyCAM?
10:15 AM roycroft[m]: Is it suitable for basic machining on a router or milling machine? As well, is it suitable for engraving and laser etching/cutting?
10:18 AM perry_j1987_: morning
10:19 AM perry_j1987_: roycroft it works off stl??
10:20 AM roycroft: amongst other formats
10:20 AM roycroft: dfx and svg as well
10:21 AM roycroft: i know some folks use it with linuxcnc
10:26 AM perry_j1987_ is now known as perry_1987
10:27 AM perry_1987 is now known as perry_j1987
11:13 AM JT-Cave: roycroft, https://www.scorchworks.com/Fengrave/fengrave.html
11:13 AM unterhaus: well, I don't feel so all alone, comcast was out across the country
11:14 AM JT-Cave: I use f-engrave for engraving
11:15 AM JT-Cave: lunch minute is up back to the industrial park
11:18 AM roycroft: i've seen f-engrave before
11:19 AM roycroft: I don't mind using multiple tools, but I'd prefer one tool for at least most things
11:19 AM roycroft: I shall probably be in a position shortly where I'll be able to invest a bit of money in some commercial CAM software, if I need it, but I'd prefer to allocate that money for other things if possible
11:20 AM perry_j1987: fusion360 can handle what you need
11:20 AM roycroft: So even though I'm not ready to start CNC machining right now, I'm revisiting CAM software in an effort to determine how best to do what I'll need to do, given this new parameter
11:20 AM roycroft: Fusion360 is right out
11:21 AM roycroft: I shall not use cloud-based software under any circumstances
11:21 AM roycroft: I shall not deal with thumbscrew licensing policies
11:21 AM perry_j1987: free license
11:21 AM roycroft: "Free"
11:22 AM roycroft: Don't forget the quotes
11:22 AM roycroft: AutoDesk own your files and they own the license terms, and they can and do change the terms all the time
11:22 AM perry_j1987: there is a webform you fill out and few days later your magically granted anotehr year without fail
11:22 AM perry_j1987: you can save all your files locally
11:22 AM roycroft: But the first disqualifier is that it's cloud-based
11:23 AM roycroft: It requires calling home occasionally, and stops working if you don't call home
11:23 AM roycroft: You may disagree with me on the suitability, but please accept that I reject it and am not willing to revisit that, at least at the moment.
11:23 AM perry_j1987: you planning on CNC'ing through the apocalypse lol
11:24 AM perry_j1987: ya i understand the on principals thing
11:24 AM roycroft: Principle and practicality
11:24 AM perry_j1987: but none of the fears people have had have come to fruition with fusion360 licensing
11:24 AM roycroft: I'm often in places without internet access, and I get a lot of work done when I don't have internet access
11:25 AM roycroft: Please be respectful and accept that I'm not going to use Fusion360, and do not want to discuss it as an option for me. Thank you very much.
11:25 AM roycroft: And note that I said "for me"
11:25 AM perry_j1987: aye
11:26 AM perry_j1987: let me know if you find something suitable
11:26 AM roycroft: What you or anyone else does regarding Fusion360 does not matter to me, and I pass no judgement on what others do with it.
11:26 AM perry_j1987: anything else for that matter
11:27 AM roycroft: I may give PyCAM a go - even though I don't have a machine to run my files, I can do some air milling in simulation mode
11:27 AM roycroft: That should give me an idea of whether I'll find it useful or not
11:28 AM roycroft: MeshCAM and CamBam are low cost commercial options that I might look into.
11:28 AM roycroft: If I were to upgrade my Solidworks licence to current I'd get bundled CAM software with it, but that's well out of budget
11:29 AM roycroft: I'm looking at <$1000 at most for software, and it would cost me 5x that much to make my Solidworks license current at this point (I have Solidworks 2012)
11:32 AM aaroncnc: there are old versions of mastercam that people sometimes sell.
11:33 AM TurBoss: blendercam can engrave stl
11:36 AM aaroncnc: There is freecad, i have been trying to get away from autodesk inventor and trying to get used to free cad. its not bad but its just different and lacks one of my most used features that it can be a pain. you cant easily create a split view and model and create sketches at the same time.
11:37 AM roycroft: I should point out that although I asked about engraving and laser etching, my initial and primary uses will be for 2d routing on a CNC router that I'm buliding, and for my milling machine which I intend to convert once the router is done.
11:37 AM roycroft: I've no current plans on doing any 3d milling, but that may change as the project evolves.
11:38 AM aaroncnc: give freecad a try, for both cad and cam
11:38 AM roycroft: FreeCAD still does not have an official assembly workbench. Besides its non-intuitive user interface, which I can eventually overcome, I don't find it suitable for modeling until it has an official assembly workbench.
11:39 AM roycroft: I'll stick with Solidworks until then.
11:39 AM roycroft: Given the history of FreeCAD, that may mean my sticking with Solidworks until the day I die. :)
11:42 AM aaroncnc: i know the feeling i still use my autodesk inventor 2016 version if i get feedup with freecad and just need to work faster.
11:42 AM roycroft: And to be clear, I don't even care about an official assembly workbench. What it needs is an official assembly API, so that whatever workbenches are created can generate assemblies that will be useful with future versions of FreeCAD. As it stands right now, there are half dozen or so mutually incompatible assembly workbenches, each of which has the disclaimer that if the workbench is not adopted as the official one, all assemblies made to date will be bro
11:42 AM aaroncnc: got to love my liftime license for 2016. kinda wish i could upgrade but im never going to pay that much.
11:42 AM roycroft: Meanwhile, AutoCAD 2008 and Solidworks 2012 work for me.
11:44 AM aaroncnc: roycroft, so about the same boat i am in, just keep using the old versions. i hate the phone home systems. There are times when i have bought software and due to the crappy need to be online once a week i have had to go find a "FIXED" version of software i paid good money for that removed that phone home part...
11:49 AM roycroft: I've spent a little time with OpenSCAD, and I see it as a viable choise for much of the work I'll be doing.
11:50 AM roycroft: The learning curve for me is not steep, although I know that it can be for others. The big issue with OpenSCAD is the time it takes to build up a set of macros to make it efficient enough to use in production.
11:50 AM internut: I <3 OpenSCAD
11:51 AM aaroncnc: I am more of a visual person openSCAD is very hard for me. I have used it to modify other peoples models to fit my needs. but try not to use it.
11:52 AM roycroft: Yes, I get that. I am still very much a command line person.
11:54 AM internut: I write code for a living, so OpenSCAD is pretty easy
11:56 AM aaroncnc: I write code like a blind mouse trapped in a maze. i will find the exit but only because i ran into every wrong answer/wall first spilling blood along the way.
12:00 PM internut: sounds painful
12:04 PM roycroft: As I said, OpenSCAD poses no problem for me, but building up a symbol library takes a lot of time.
12:05 PM aaroncnc: now to just find out why i keep disconnecting from irc 3-4 times an hour.
12:06 PM roycroft: Once one has built a decent library, many drawings can be generated much faster with OpenSCAD than with a gui-based tool, perhaps as much as an order of magnitude faster for some things.
12:12 PM XXCoder: ugh i feel horrible. hour of work doing blackverry removal
12:12 PM XXCoder: feels like i worked 12 hours.
12:14 PM XXCoder: while im not sick at all, with heavy dizzyness its like trying to do it when having bad flu
12:16 PM XXCoder: roycroft: yep, reuse is great when it can be done
12:19 PM roycroft: XXCoder: it's the only way to reasonably use OpenSCAD
12:20 PM roycroft: The software is just a bunch of primatives - you need to build shapes with them to incorporate into your models.
12:20 PM * roycroft got his seasonal flu shot yesterday, with no ill effects today.
12:20 PM XXCoder: yeah same. got flu shot
12:26 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, dowel pin in the spindle for use as a material stop
12:29 PM Tom_L: roycroft, have you looked at onecnc?
12:29 PM Tom_L: iirc jt uses that
12:30 PM XXCoder: whats onecnc licensing like
12:31 PM Tom_L: probably depends on how much of it you get
12:31 PM Tom_L: http://onecnc.com/en/products/how-to-buy
12:32 PM Tom_L: http://onecnc.com/en/products/products-overview
12:32 PM XXCoder: forever license. nice
12:32 PM XXCoder: quotes. i guess its too expensive for me then lol
12:33 PM Tom_L: i paid good money for mine 30+ yrs ago and i'm still using it
12:33 PM Tom_L: it's outdated but i can do full 4 axis and maybe 5 but i've never had a reason to use 5
12:33 PM XXCoder: nicd
12:34 PM Tom_L: it's not the software you can get today but it works
12:34 PM Tom_L: and i can import iges quite well from catia
12:34 PM Tom_L: smartcam doesn't do so well with iges
12:34 PM Tom_L: on it anyway
12:35 PM Tom_L: they want to give you a quote because they don't know what packages you need
12:37 PM roycroft: I have not, Tom_L
12:37 PM XXCoder: makes sense
12:38 PM XXCoder: though should hjave in least basic ideas on price
12:38 PM Tom_L: why buy 5 axis when you only need 2.5 or 3
12:38 PM roycroft: Any idea on the cost?
12:39 PM Tom_L: roycroft, ask jt about it, i haven't used it
12:39 PM roycroft: That's one of those "ask for a quote" places.
12:39 PM Tom_L: i got a quote when i got mine
12:39 PM Tom_L: no big deal
12:40 PM roycroft: What's the real difference between 2.5D and 3D from the commercial package folks' point of view?
12:40 PM roycroft: Is 2.5D just multi-layer 2D?
12:40 PM XXCoder: 2.5d is essentally router
12:40 PM XXCoder: it has z, buit not a lot of it
12:40 PM roycroft: Sure, but routers can do 3D stuff
12:41 PM XXCoder: picture this way, you can only do top part of sphere
12:41 PM XXCoder: not sure if im explaining clearly, feeling horrible now
12:41 PM roycroft: If I want to route a convex circle on the surface of a piece of wood, would a 2.5D package support that?
12:41 PM roycroft: I get that having a spindle that can tilt and route from the side is clearly 3D
12:42 PM roycroft: but if I keep the spindle vertical, will 2.5D allow me to route vertical curves?
12:43 PM roycroft: I think you're saying yes, XXCoder.
12:43 PM roycroft: It's when I need to go "south of the equator" that 3D is necessary.
12:43 PM roycroft: Is that correct?
12:44 PM XXCoder: just reviewed define
12:44 PM XXCoder: 2.5d is multiple flat features
12:44 PM XXCoder: ie different depths
12:44 PM XXCoder: https://www.flashcutcnc.com/resources/knowledgebase/what-is-the-difference-between-2d-2-5d-and-3d-contouring/
12:44 PM roycroft: So it's what I originally thought - multi-layer 2D
12:44 PM roycroft: Thanks for the link.
12:44 PM XXCoder: welcome
12:45 PM Tom_L: 2.5d is just that 2d on levels
12:45 PM XXCoder: yeah guess i misremembered
12:45 PM Tom_L: it won't run 3 axis at once
12:46 PM roycroft: Cutting a foam outline is 2D. Routing a jig into MDF with screw pockets that don't go all the way through is 2.5D. Routing a dome is 3D.
12:47 PM roycroft: For the dome, that can probably be done crudely with 2.5D by making the layers very thin.
12:47 PM roycroft: Kind of like the contour lines on a topographic map.
12:47 PM XXCoder: with ball endmill that'd work, though long op
12:47 PM roycroft: So I really need 3D CAM from day one.
12:48 PM roycroft: But 3 axis for now, with the ability to add additional axes if needed in the future.
12:53 PM Tom_L: then your choices go up to a moveable head or a rotary on a cradle
12:54 PM Tom_L: but
12:54 PM Tom_L: 3 axis doesn't mean 3d because it still takes 3 axis for 2.5d
12:54 PM roycroft: Yes, I get that.
12:54 PM roycroft: I need 3 axis 3D.
12:54 PM Tom_L: they're just not simutaneous sp?
12:55 PM roycroft: And with some of the bread and butter projects I'm pondering, I'm pretty sure I'd want 3D from day one - no 2.5D with an upgrade path.
12:56 PM Tom_L: i recouped the cost of mine in 1 year in programming fees alone
12:57 PM Tom_L: so you can be like most and cringe at the cost or you can see the bigger picture
12:58 PM Tom_L: but i had a good reason before the purchase
12:58 PM roycroft: I'm looking at all my options right now, and I can carve out some budget for software, which makes for more possiblities.
12:59 PM Tom_L: i think jt likes onecad and the 2 of you could colaborate
12:59 PM roycroft: I don't cringe at spending money if I can see a good rate of return on the investment.
12:59 PM XXCoder: yeah. though I do scale it with income. if I was running cnc router, and getting zero income, id use purely use low cost or free cad cam etc
12:59 PM roycroft: I can personally testify that JT makes good parts.
12:59 PM roycroft: So the software must work. :)
01:00 PM Tom_L: that's why at the time i purchased all the available inventory of http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/new_batch/USB_chips.jpg
01:01 PM Tom_L: it just so happened that my programmer worked on the ps3 for some stupid upgrade they were doing
01:01 PM Tom_L: and absolutely nobody had those usb chips
01:01 PM Tom_L: except you know who :)
01:01 PM XXCoder: no, who? ;)
01:02 PM Tom_L: and once again with chip shortage if i wanted to i could sell those on ebay etc
01:03 PM XXCoder: and every chip last one you have? lol
01:03 PM XXCoder: kidding. though yeah some people do that
01:03 PM Tom_L: i don't wanna fiddle with it
01:08 PM Tom_L: xx you still got your vactra 2?
01:10 PM XXCoder: the oil? yeah whats up
01:10 PM Tom_L: there will be a shortage soon...
01:10 PM XXCoder: hm whats happening?
01:11 PM Tom_L: i dunno, just saying
01:11 PM roycroft: Are you suggesting that I purge my toilet paper supply to make room for hoarding Vactra 2?
01:11 PM Tom_L: wouldn't be a bad idea, however the sears catalog isn't printed anymore
01:11 PM roycroft: Or should I just build another hoardehouse?
01:12 PM XXCoder: lol
01:12 PM XXCoder: my oil supply arent running out anytime at this rate.
01:12 PM XXCoder: average usage: 0 gram per year
01:15 PM roycroft: Perhaps I should just invest in the Vactra options market. Now I just have to find that market.
01:17 PM XXCoder: $10 per gram if you want mine lol
02:15 PM serp1 is now known as serp
02:33 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:34 PM sensille_ is now known as sensille
04:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I think I have 50 gallons of vactra 2
04:40 PM XXCoder: so, couple days supply?
04:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: depends on if I shower or not
04:41 PM XXCoder: lol
04:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i asked my HP sales rep if in fact certain printer consumables cost such and such and really last as long as their warranty states. They responded with why am i asking and can I expand on the reason for doing so. :)
04:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Sir, at HP we try to hide the actual cost of operation from the consumer as much as possible. Please just purchase the product and ask fewer questions.
04:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hah "Thank you for the question. You ask that for a specific reason of course. Can you expand?"
04:58 PM roycroft[m]: I have an older DesignJet. It works fine still, but I don't use it often. The ink cartridges get clogged if it sits idle for a while.
04:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Yes, because I want to know. Kind regards, ....
04:58 PM roycroft[m]: HP told me that I need to run a test print at least weekly, or be prepared to replace the cartridges constantly.
04:59 PM roycroft[m]: I found that running warm water over the nozzles for a few seconds and then dabbing them dry with a lint-free towel clears them up just fine.
04:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://blog.mastergraphics.com/expert_advice/how-much-does-the-hp-3d-printer-cost
04:59 PM roycroft[m]: The DesignJet still complains of malfunctions, but it plots without problems.
04:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c05366093
05:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: yeah, just clean with DI water and alcohol
05:00 PM roycroft[m]: Our water is so pure and clean here that I don't bother with DI
05:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you just don't want to push any particles up the nozzles
05:00 PM roycroft[m]: I can't remember the last time I used that plotter - I should probably sell it at this point.
05:01 PM roycroft[m]: My Konica mopier prints 12x18 sheets just fine, and if I need something larger I tile the prints.
05:01 PM roycroft[m]: If I really really need to plot a D size or E size sheet I can always go to Kinko's
05:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: HP has made a fortune with thermal inkjet
05:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: easy 1000% markup on just about everything
05:02 PM roycroft[m]: They developed the model - give the machine away at cost, rake in a fortune from consumables.
05:03 PM roycroft[m]: The copier business has a slightly different cost model - give the machine away at cost, bundle service and consumables together in a package, and rake in a fortune on clicks.
05:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: TIJ inks cost only a few $ per liter
05:03 PM XXCoder: ink costs a lot more than blood
05:04 PM XXCoder: and thats at high hospital cost blood too
05:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they are >95% water
05:04 PM roycroft[m]: We had a Lanier copier for a few years, and we figured out that a click is a click is a click on those.
05:05 PM roycroft[m]: So whenever we needed to multiples of something, we threw the job into a 2-up InDesign template and printed 11x17, then cut the printouts in half, saving half our click cost.
05:06 PM roycroft[m]: I never liked Lanier copiers/mopiers, though.
05:07 PM roycroft[m]: My office moved on from that machine to a couple Ricoh's, which were slightly better, then moved on to Konica/Minolta, which they still use.
05:07 PM roycroft[m]: I've been really impressed with the Konica/Minolta machines, so much so that I ended up buying one for my home office, and I've been very happy with it.
05:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: laser printer toner resins are also in the few $/Kg range
05:09 PM roycroft[m]: On a service plan, the Konicas cost 2 clicks for 11x17, and 1 click for 8-1/2x11 or smaller.
05:09 PM roycroft[m]: I bought my machine outright, without service, as I don't use it heavily.
05:09 PM roycroft[m]: So no click costs for me, but I have to pay for my consumables.
05:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: about 10 years ago I made the Konica/Minolta sales rep so angry he almost exploded
05:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: talking about open source Linux drivers
05:14 PM Tom_L: you didn't go along with his plan?
05:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and interface specs
05:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i went out of my way to meet them at the airport since they were passing through at O'hare
05:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they all have an agenda, but you aren't supposed to know
05:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just follow along
05:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: What do i have to do to buy your parts other than just place and order and pay?
05:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Answer: Nothing
05:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ah ok then I'll take 10
05:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Answer: but first you have so sign this license agreement and tell us what you are going to do with them :)
05:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: lots of crap like that ^^
05:20 PM Tom_L: and of course you agreed
05:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I usually just say "can I just send you a blank check"
05:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: before laughing
05:21 PM Tom_L: i bet the infancy of copier sales was brutal
05:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: was just Xerox
05:23 PM roycroft[m]: Yes, and there were no sales, just leases.
05:23 PM roycroft[m]: I have a meeting right at dinner time today. How annoying.
05:24 PM roycroft[m]: I have to decide whether to have an early dinner, or a light snack and a late dinner.
05:24 PM Tom_L: i have 2 cnc files to test my post changes
05:24 PM Tom_L: maybe i'll get to that
05:25 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, I was sooooooo god damn pissed off to day.
05:25 PM _unreal_: there were two amazing cabinets that where set near the trash
05:25 PM _unreal_: I couldnt get them because I had ZERO time
05:25 PM _unreal_: and I could not figure out how the fuckers were attached to the box
05:25 PM _unreal_: its like they had one #10 screw somehwere holding them
05:25 PM roycroft[m]: I'm leaning towards the latter - I can grab some take-away food after my meeting, and both have something different to the type of food I usually eat, and stimulate the restaurant economy a bit.
05:26 PM _unreal_: I couldnt figure out the attachement point for nothinbg
05:26 PM _unreal_: had to walk way
05:26 PM _unreal_: away, and sure enough the dumpster was emptied and the thing sitting next to it with the enclosures was gone
05:27 PM roycroft[m]: If it's a single #10 screw, then the attachment point is irrelevant, because the detachment tool is a swift kick with a sturdy boot.
05:27 PM _unreal_: they where amazing. nice clear viewing windows each was about 24"x24" and about 12" deep with a full front opening door and a window that was about 16x16"
05:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: have you pushed the speed limit of the indexer yet?
05:27 PM _unreal_: I had zeros tools on my golf cart because of the "project" I was about to go do
05:27 PM _unreal_: :(
05:27 PM _unreal_: SOOOO pissed off
05:27 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], no i haven't tried
05:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: did you say that it had grease inside vs oil?
05:28 PM Tom_L: i did go a little bit and it reached a point it would back up some when it stopped
05:28 PM Tom_L: grease yes
05:29 PM Tom_L: and i put grease back in it after cleaning
05:29 PM Tom_L: although mine wasn't terrible inside
05:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: fine unless you start drilling with it
05:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: your work will likely not even go past a few RPM
05:30 PM Tom_L: no probably not
05:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I might one to try
05:30 PM Tom_L: just rapids to the next cut
05:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: get one
05:30 PM Tom_L: i'm sure i could go a bit faster with it
05:30 PM Tom_L: i got home etc set with 2 buttons
05:31 PM Tom_L: just home in place G10 L20? and a 'go to home' button
05:31 PM Tom_L: so all that works ok now
05:31 PM Tom_L: i really didn't see the need for a switch
05:32 PM Tom_L: i may have put the config up on the server
05:32 PM Tom_L: not sure the last one is there
05:33 PM Tom_L: looks like it is
05:34 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/NEW_MILL_SHOP_2.8.1/
05:34 PM Tom_L: anything with an "_A" at the end is part of the rotary config
05:41 PM Tom_L: the iges for that mount plate is up there somewhere too if you want it
05:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od1kj8MOMtA
05:49 PM _unreal_: ve7it, how goes it?
06:03 PM roycroft[m]: How annoying. I was hoping my new VFD's 24VDC power source was configurable, but it just supplies power whenever there is power to the inverter.
06:04 PM roycroft[m]: Now I have to figure out a different way to get power only when the spindle is running.
06:05 PM roycroft[m]: It looks like there are some configurable relays, so I can probably just feed the 24V back to one of the built-in relays.
06:06 PM _unreal_: cei span?
06:06 PM _unreal_: ?
06:06 PM _unreal_: roycroft[m], what are you trying to figure out ?
06:06 PM roycroft[m]: I need 24VDC when the spindle is running on my mill.
06:07 PM _unreal_: ok....? 24vdc for the spindle
06:07 PM roycroft[m]: I need 0VDC when the spindle is not running on my mill.
06:07 PM roycroft[m]: For a hall sensor and an indicator.
06:07 PM _unreal_: ok... but you have a VFD.... that is the speed controller
06:07 PM _unreal_: are you talking display or speed controller?
06:07 PM roycroft[m]: The spindle is a 3HP three phase motor.
06:08 PM roycroft[m]: Yes, I have the VFD. It can supply 24VCD.
06:08 PM roycroft[m]: 24VDC, rather.
06:08 PM _unreal_: vacuum F. display, or var. freq. drive
06:08 PM roycroft[m]: Variable Frequency Drive, which should be fairly clear in context.
06:08 PM _unreal_: are you talking about a motor controller or a display? both are VFD's
06:08 PM _unreal_: ok
06:08 PM _unreal_: no its not
06:08 PM _unreal_: in any case
06:09 PM _unreal_: so your trying to control the motor to be ON or off? via the VFD
06:09 PM _unreal_: right?
06:09 PM _unreal_: or are you trying to control the 24vdc psu supply to the VFD?
06:09 PM roycroft[m]: I also have an hour meter that I only want to increment when the spindle is turning. It is 24VDC as well.
06:09 PM _unreal_: generally one controls the VFD via signals
06:09 PM roycroft[m]: I control the motor on/off, and the motor frequency, with the VFD>
06:09 PM _unreal_: ok so tie that to the signal wire with a relay
06:10 PM roycroft[m]: This is a manual machine at the moment. I'll be controlling the spindle with a potentiometer that is built into the VFD.
06:10 PM _unreal_: so your driving the motor with the manual VFD controls
06:10 PM _unreal_: rather then input?
06:11 PM roycroft[m]: I think I can use the onboard 24VDC power and feed that to one of the built-in relays, and use the relay output to power the hall sensor et al.
06:11 PM _unreal_: you could just use a field sensor on the motor wires.
06:11 PM roycroft[m]: I start it spinning by pressing the "ON" button. I stop it spinning by pressing the "OFF" button. I vary the speed by turning the potentiometer.
06:12 PM _unreal_: look to see if there is an OUTPUT
06:12 PM _unreal_: it may have an output pin that can be used to control like a dust extractor
06:12 PM roycroft[m]: I need 24VDC for my stuff.
06:12 PM _unreal_: what VFD model do you have
06:12 PM roycroft[m]: I think I can program the relays to close on any state I choose.
06:13 PM roycroft[m]: HuanYang GT-4R0G-2
06:13 PM _unreal_: as I recall if I use the onboard controls to drive my VFD. it has some outputs that I can control as well. signals... but mine is controlled externally
06:14 PM roycroft[m]: The VFD supplies very low current from the 24V power supply - IIRC it's about 150ma.
06:14 PM roycroft[m]: I may be better off just installing a small 24V power supply in the controller box, and powering one of the relays with that.
06:15 PM _unreal_: relay output 1
06:16 PM _unreal_: j17 and j15 as well
06:17 PM roycroft[m]: Yes, that's what I'm looking at.
06:19 PM _unreal_: HD0 as well
06:19 PM _unreal_: is a pulse output
06:19 PM _unreal_: but you could use a cap and make that an output to drive a relay as well
06:19 PM _unreal_: I would look into the relay outputs.
06:20 PM roycroft[m]: R01 can handle 30VDC@1A, so that will work.
06:21 PM roycroft[m]: I don't need more than 1A - I could even skip using that relay to control an external relay, and power all my devices directly though the built-in one.
06:22 PM _unreal_: That could work as well
06:22 PM _unreal_: my spindle is 2HP
06:22 PM _unreal_: 1.5kw
06:23 PM roycroft[m]: When I do the CNC conversion I can let LinuxCNC control everything - it will know when the spindle is turning, and it can do whatever needs to be done.
06:23 PM roycroft[m]: So this is a temporary thing.
06:23 PM _unreal_: an other option....
06:23 PM _unreal_: setup an arduino
06:23 PM roycroft[m]: The motor that came with my mill was 0.8HP. I've upped it to 2HP.
06:24 PM _unreal_: roycroft[m], no really. think about setting up an arduino
06:24 PM roycroft[m]: I don't see any need for that for this application.
06:24 PM _unreal_: you can PRE-setup the inputs and just use signals from an arduino. with a button or two and a POT..
06:24 PM roycroft[m]: I'll just feed a small external power supply through RO1, and power my stuff directly from that.
06:25 PM _unreal_: so that when it comes to the migration of lcnc. you already have it setup
06:25 PM _unreal_: you can still use the input controlls
06:25 PM roycroft[m]: I'll be ripping the control box out of the mill when I convert to LinuxCNC
06:25 PM _unreal_: on the VFD its self....
06:25 PM roycroft[m]: I'll be reconfiguring everything and using the RS485 interface on the VFD to communicate with LinuxCNC.
06:26 PM roycroft[m]: But that's probably going to be another year, because I need to build my CNC router first.
06:26 PM _unreal_: WELL rs485 will still leave you with needing to use that onboard relay. or using something off of your controller or from the pc its self them :)
06:29 PM roycroft[m]: Fortunately I have a spare small 24V power supply, and the electrical box I ordered (which arrives tomorrow) is plenty big to fit everything.
07:57 PM Tom_L: question.
07:57 PM XXCoder: answer.
07:57 PM Tom_L: net mpg-counts => axis.a.jog-counts
07:57 PM Tom_L: i need a multiplier between those
07:59 PM Tom_L: that feeds from the pendant encoder to the axis jog and it's scaled down for all of them with ilowpass i think
07:59 PM Tom_L: can i use ilowpass on that one pin to multiply it up?
08:00 PM Tom_L: the rotary jogs alot slower than the rest and i'd like to change that
08:00 PM Tom_L: pendant only
08:00 PM Tom_L: the rest is ok
08:01 PM Tom_L: maybe i can bypass lowpass on that one signal
08:03 PM Tom_L: net mpg-out ilowpass.0.in <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.00.count
08:03 PM Tom_L: net mpg-counts <= ilowpass.0.out
08:03 PM Tom_L: net mpg-counts => axis.x.jog-counts
08:03 PM Tom_L: just run encoder to that axis and not use ilowpass?
08:03 PM Tom_L: one way to find out....
08:03 PM XXCoder: i guess yeah
08:04 PM Tom_L: i was hoping you'd have the answer :)
08:04 PM XXCoder: experts is uncommon sadly
08:05 PM Tom_L: one line... i'll go try it
08:15 PM Tom_L: nope
08:23 PM Tom_L: not finding what i need yet
08:24 PM * t4nk_freenode shakes Tom_L's hand on that.
08:24 PM Tom_L: ?
08:24 PM t4nk_freenode: can't find what I need either ;)
08:25 PM Tom_L: were you the one that converted a rotary too?
08:25 PM t4nk_freenode: no, I'm running remora, and I'm trying to change the remora-xyz example into a remora-xyyz
08:25 PM XXCoder: tom can you display results but not use em so you understand what input and outputs is doing so can fix stuff if needed?
08:26 PM Tom_L: i know what they are doing
08:26 PM Tom_L: ilowpass just smooths out the pulses from the mpg so it's not choppy
08:27 PM Tom_L: i'm wondering if i can feed the mpg to 2 ilowpass and send the 2nd one just to the A axis with a different gain
08:27 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure that will work either
08:32 PM XXCoder: dunno, but if its fast to try as well as try
08:50 PM Tom_L: all fixed
08:52 PM XXCoder: awesome. so what worked?
08:53 PM Tom_L: now 10 mpg clicks is 1 degree on the coarse setting
08:53 PM Tom_L: added another ilowpass component just for A
08:54 PM Tom_L: didn't test yet but the middle setting should be 1 full turn per degree
08:54 PM Tom_L: and the fine should be 10 turns per degree
08:57 PM Tom_L: i guess i'll test my rotary code another day
08:57 PM XXCoder: :)
08:57 PM Tom_L: i did pull the vise and set it on the table
08:57 PM Tom_L: not aligned yet
08:59 PM Tom_L: net mpg-counts <= ilowpass.0.out
08:59 PM Tom_L: net mpg-counts => axis.x.jog-counts
08:59 PM Tom_L: net mpgA-counts ilowpass.1.out => axis.a.jog-counts
09:15 PM Tom_L: try that with grbl :)
09:16 PM XXCoder: grbl is perfectly fine on basic machine designs
09:16 PM XXCoder: i used it for laser
09:17 PM XXCoder: but yeah its very limited
09:21 PM aaroncnc: so i am doing some testing again with pid, i have a slight problem. linuxcnc thinks my motor is turning the wrong way and the pid is working backwards.
09:22 PM Tom_L: reverse scale
09:22 PM Tom_L: -scale
09:23 PM Tom_L: that's not even classified as a problem just a tiny glitch
09:39 PM aaroncnc: Tom_L, thanks
10:31 PM Tom_L: anyone that has dealt with wrapped geometry, i'd be interested to know how you manage lead in lead out moves
10:31 PM Tom_L: likely doesn't matter the cad package
11:49 PM roycroft[m]: I cleaned off my electronics workbench tonight for the first time in like three years
11:49 PM roycroft[m]: I can now move my cnc controller to that bench and get it off my joinery bench
11:49 PM roycroft[m]: So now I can do woodworking again