#linuxcnc Logs

Nov 02 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:08 AM roycroft: so my mill motor plate sags more than i thought at first
12:15 AM roycroft: and with the resonance issue, i'm definitely going to have to make a brace for it
12:15 AM XXCoder: ribs?
12:15 AM roycroft: fortunately i have a working milling machine now, so i can more easily do that
12:15 AM roycroft: i may only be able to support it at the back
12:15 AM roycroft: because i don't want anything interfering with parts that are on the table
12:15 AM roycroft: i only had time to test the motor and vfd today
12:15 AM roycroft: i have to do some measuring and sketching before i figure out a good way to brace it
12:15 AM roycroft: whatever i end up doing, it's going to be way better than the stock motor and controller
12:50 AM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: šŸŽ†
01:01 AM CaptHindsight[m]: "Tom_L 47 ohm was putting out ~.35A" well now we know how to get as little current out of the G203's as possible
01:02 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.amazon.com/Bipolar-Smallest-Stepper-1-6Ncm-2-3oz/dp/B00PJYL6BY
01:04 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.oyostepper.com/category-2-b0-Nema-8-Stepper-Motor.html
01:05 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.oyostepper.com/category-65-b0-Nema-6-14-x-14mm.html smallet still
01:06 AM XXCoder: wow nema 8
01:07 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.ato.com/nema-4-micro-stepper-motor
01:09 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://qqm.en.alibaba.com/product/60710738570-804874024/SM1001_NEMA_4_stepper_motor.html
01:21 AM XXCoder: of course lol
01:22 AM XXCoder: any nema 2?
02:02 AM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: they make linear steppers that don't rotate
02:02 AM XXCoder: lol fun
02:05 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dMKXUPLMW0 think of it like a rotary motor that has been unrolled and laid flat
02:05 AM XXCoder: i wonder how fast it can be
02:05 AM XXCoder: interesting. pretty fast
02:07 AM CaptHindsight[m]: if a rotary can go ~1500 rpm
02:10 AM CaptHindsight[m]: so ~1.5" dia rotor, 1.5 x 3.14 = 4.71" x 1500 = 7065"/min = 117.5 in/sec
02:14 AM Deejay: moin
02:15 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.h2wtech.com/category/single-axis-linear-stepper#specifications1
02:16 AM XXCoder: 2m per second thats quite fast
02:17 AM CaptHindsight[m]: With linear steppers, acceleration of 1 g and speeds up to 100 in/sec [2.5 m/s] are typical.
02:18 AM CaptHindsight[m]: Brushless linear motors can achieve an acceleration of up to 12 gā€™s, and speeds in excess of 200+ inches per second [5+ m/s].
02:19 AM CaptHindsight[m]: flat AC linear induction motor (LIM) Accelerations of up to 1 g with speeds in excess of 1800 inches per second [45 m/s]
03:04 AM randy: morning
04:30 AM Tom_L: morning
05:31 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:05 AM unterhaus: I'm not sure I would like it if my name was Gagne, too much pressure
07:36 AM Tom_L: nice blistering 39F out this morning
07:44 AM JT-Cave: 41Ā°F and wet
07:45 AM Tom_L: did you see the stupid thing i did?
07:45 AM JT-Cave: I might get to burn some wood today
07:45 AM JT-Cave: no
07:45 AM Tom_L: the driver was only putting out .35A to the steppers :)
07:45 AM Tom_L: i put a 47 ohm resistor on the current limit instead of 47k
07:46 AM JT-Cave: opps
07:46 AM Tom_L: i'm surprised the smaller stepper would turn
07:46 AM Tom_L: the bigger one wouldn't
07:47 AM Tom_L: yeah we're supposed to get rain but i don't see it yet
08:24 AM JT-Cave: yuck I need to get up on the roof and clean the flue pipes... the garage and machine shop are not bad but the big shop is 12' walls and muddy back by the flue pipe
08:25 AM Tom_L: cleaned a bunch of sticks off mine yesterday
09:14 AM satiowadahc[m]: Well this is a useful little document albeit a little outdated: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.0/HAL_Documentation.pdf
09:32 AM JT-Shop: most of that should be in the current documents
10:08 AM satiowadahc[m]: I find a lot of the documentation very scattered, and somewhat confusing until I've learned each bit. This seems to be nicely condensed and explained
10:08 AM satiowadahc[m]: The problem with trying to consolidate it, usually means a new system which is not always ideal
12:00 PM * JT-Shop does not like to get on the roof anymore...
12:17 PM solarwind: Oxy propane brazing not as glamorous as I thought
12:17 PM solarwind: For some reason, the braze filler (using "bronze" brazing rod) becomes lumpy when it cools down
12:18 PM solarwind: for small pieces that heat up with my air propane torch, this doesn't happen. Also doesn't happen when using oxy acetylene
12:18 PM solarwind: I see sparks in the molten pool, probably oxidation
12:19 PM solarwind: No matter what I do, the braze filler becomes weird and lumpy when it cools down with oxy propane. I have no idea what's going on
12:19 PM solarwind: I ground it down to see if it was porosity. It wasn't, at least no pores large enough to see with the naked eye
12:21 PM solarwind: Oxy acetylene burns so nice and smooth in comparison. That reducing zone makes for perfect brazes/welds every time and really easy to build up material by using a small diameter tip to focus the heat
12:21 PM solarwind: It's just so damn expensive
12:36 PM roycroft: switch to wood and use titebond iii?
12:36 PM roycroft: that stuff is about $20/gallon
12:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: I use oxy propane for cutting only. What is your problem with Tig?
12:57 PM roycroft: brazing is a lot better for materials like cast iron
01:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the 2.8.2 LCNC ISO has nm-tray to graphically control connect and disconnect to a network, any idea where it stores it's DNS settings?
01:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: its "Edit Setting" feature does nothing
01:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: have you found a good max velocity after testing with full current availability?
01:51 PM aaroncnc: any one got a second to look at some python? i want to not have so many repeats any ideas? https://pastebin.com/FBjiuc7H
02:00 PM satiowadahc[m]: group them together in an array.
02:00 PM satiowadahc[m]: self.axis_array = [self.xaxistmc,self.yaxistmc,...]
02:00 PM satiowadahc[m]: [widget.currentIndexChanged.connect(self.update) for i in self.axis_array]
02:01 PM satiowadahc[m]: or in simple for loop:
02:01 PM satiowadahc[m]: for i in self.axis_array:
02:01 PM satiowadahc[m]: i.currentIndexChanged.connect(self.update)
02:02 PM satiowadahc[m]: Generally a good idea to group similar elements in a ui in arrays at the beginning of a program, to be able to do code like so
02:12 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], haven't been around to test
02:18 PM JT-Shop: I always stick weld cast steel and iron brazing is too weak
02:23 PM aaroncnc: satiowadahc[m], https://pastebin.com/4AwRvYfE
02:26 PM JT-Shop: aaroncnc, add them to a button group
02:27 PM Tom_L: raining here now
02:28 PM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, can button groups work if the objects are on different tabs?
02:28 PM JT-Shop: aye
02:29 PM JT-Shop: after you select two or more buttons right click to add them to a new button group then name it to suit
02:30 PM JT-Shop: then select other buttons and right click to add to the button group
02:30 PM JT-Shop: https://github.com/jethornton/mill_touch_v6/blob/master/mill_touch_v6/g5x_handler.py#L4
02:30 PM JT-Shop: one line of code to connec
02:30 PM JT-Shop: t
02:47 PM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, AttributeError: 'Ui' object has no attribute 'buttonGroup'
02:48 PM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, nvm. seems QT did not save my edit on the first click
02:54 PM aaroncnc: that exclusive thing for the group had me confused for a second. but its working now
02:54 PM JT-Shop: cool
02:55 PM JT-Shop: in the object inspector the button groups are always down at the bottom
02:58 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] brazing for dissimilar metals
02:59 PM solarwind: and joints where you want to possibly remove
03:00 PM solarwind: That is, cleanly disassemble at a later time
03:01 PM solarwind: Vacuum induction brazing, or induction brazing in argon is great for small things like carbide lathe tools
03:01 PM solarwind: but not possible for most other workpieces
03:04 PM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, in the tool i started to follow you code and broke out my bigger functions into own files. makes things nice to find and i save alot of scrolling around now!
03:06 PM JT-Shop: great
03:19 PM JT-Shop: I like to have the minimum code possible in the main program file
04:10 PM roycroft: my letsencrypt nightmare is over
04:10 PM roycroft: well, the work one is over
04:11 PM roycroft: the country fair one is just beginning, from what i can tell, but that one doesn't involve me at all except for my complaining when things don't work
04:57 PM Loetmichel_ is now known as Loetmichel
05:03 PM * JT-Shop has these two big chunks of 6061 sized up... time to call it a day.
05:06 PM JT-Shop: Drahtzieher
05:07 PM t4nk_freenode: CaptHindsight[m], I finally got Remora to compile with gcc now... *brr*
05:07 PM t4nk_freenode: another bug in the code, well.. a debug actually, hehe
05:08 PM t4nk_freenode: there's a substancial difference in size between the armc6 and gcc generated files
05:13 PM t4nk_freenode: now let's ditch the sd card.
05:13 PM t4nk_freenode: configure the tmc drivers on the fly
05:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: t4nk_freenode: šŸŽ†šŸ‘ļø
05:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he used mbed since he was comfortable with it
05:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: easy enough to fix
05:23 PM t4nk_freenode: he said he started out with platformio, but that broke too often
05:23 PM t4nk_freenode: thn switched to using mbed studio
05:24 PM t4nk_freenode: I'm currently still including debugging symbols I guess, but the size difference is pretty massive
05:26 PM t4nk_freenode: so there is something to say in favour of mbed studio that lets you use armc6
05:26 PM t4nk_freenode: for free that is
05:29 PM solarwind: Ugh there goes $450 for an acetylene cylinder exchange
05:30 PM solarwind: Oxy propane is just not giving me the pretty braze fillets
05:30 PM solarwind: Building up heavy sections is not possible with such a wide heating area
05:31 PM roycroft: are you using propane-air?
05:31 PM solarwind: propane and oxygen
05:31 PM roycroft: oh
05:31 PM roycroft: then acetylene is probably your next move
05:32 PM solarwind: I've been using acetylene extensively before. It's expensive, so I wanted to try propane
05:32 PM solarwind: I can do exactly what I want with oxy acetylene
05:32 PM roycroft: you're rich
05:32 PM roycroft: you don't care if it's expensive :)
05:33 PM solarwind: Not rich enough to avoid trying propane
05:33 PM solarwind: Propane and air is great for preheating though. I just can't figure out why it's making the braze filler cool to a really lumpy texture
05:34 PM solarwind: It's possible that the higher gas velocity required is causing gas impregnation in the molten metal
05:36 PM solarwind: I might just try a very large tip and low gas velocity to see if that changes anything
05:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: t4nk_freenode: someone in freecad/path is helping Scotta out as well
05:37 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], JT-Shop, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZMAnER9WFo
05:38 PM JT-Shop: nice!
05:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: >70,000 views of Remora and Orangepicnc on the forums
05:38 PM t4nk_freenode: I have intimate knowledge of that person, CaptHindsight[m] ...
05:39 PM t4nk_freenode: I thought you knew ;)
05:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I lose track of my own nicks :)
05:39 PM JT-Shop: two hoses drained two to go
05:39 PM Tom_L: hoses on what?
05:39 PM Tom_L: garden hoses?
05:40 PM Tom_L: i gotta enable the A axis on the pendant now
05:41 PM roycroft: i just got off work, and am going to figure out where i want to mount the vfd on my mill
05:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: which make/model head is that?
05:42 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/112262120558
05:42 PM Tom_L: the price has gone way up
05:42 PM Tom_L: you can find another link cheaper
05:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: t4nk_freenode: is all the interest due to just saving a few $ on stepper control hardware?
05:43 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/224291244672
05:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: I was going to look for those cheap Chinaco engraving indexers for a non-contact application....
05:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: then I figured that they are made so poorly I should just make them myself
05:45 PM t4nk_freenode: my 'interest' is costing me so much money, you wouldn't believe CaptHindsight[m] but it's more the knowledge, experience and sense of achievement for me
05:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: save the time on having to rebuild the junk
05:45 PM Tom_L: doesn't seem so bad for my purpose but i'm not making parts for spacex either
05:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: spacex isn't exactly using the best stuff to make their parts .....
05:46 PM Tom_L: my kid makes parts for them from time to time
05:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's more whomever the manager was used to using
05:46 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, yea garden hoses
05:47 PM JT-Shop: freeze tomorrow night
05:47 PM Tom_L: yeah it's getting close to that here
05:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have had spacex engineers buy things from on their own personal CC with the hopes of using something better
05:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: * things from me on their
05:47 PM JT-Shop: what did you pay for yours?
05:48 PM Tom_L: about the price on that 2nd link
05:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we have had frost the past few nights already
05:48 PM JT-Shop: wow big difference
05:48 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, https://www.ebay.com/itm/224291244672
05:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: t4nk_freenode: I dug my old STM32F Discovery board out of a box with the hopes of trying Remora
05:48 PM Tom_L: same head
05:50 PM JT-Shop: ships from usa too
05:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-parts/cnc-router-rotational-axis-the-4th-axis
05:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Step Angle: 0.3degree/step ^^
05:51 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, any backlash on the gears
05:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: yours is 10x finer than that
05:51 PM Tom_L: it's adjustable by the disk on the drive side
05:52 PM t4nk_freenode: CaptHindsight[m], that'll work... it's got no sd card reader, but the ARCH_MAX target should work with it
05:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: t4nk_freenode: why was he stepping so slowly compared to Klipper?
05:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 80khz vs 700khz
05:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I thought he was using the RTOS in mbed
05:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just lack of fine tuning?
05:54 PM t4nk_freenode: I really haven't dug in that far into that part yet, just barely got everything going
05:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: how big is the "pass hole" on yours?
05:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Pass hole dia - 22mm on the Chinese one ^^
05:55 PM t4nk_freenode: but the code does really need to be looked at, it is very dangerous without a doubt.
05:55 PM robotustra: good time of the day for you
05:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: about ready to celebrate Standard Time again
06:06 PM Tom_L: i'd have to check
06:08 PM roycroft: i'll celebrate when we quite flip-flopping the clock
06:08 PM roycroft: the west coast was supposed to go on year-round daylight saving time a couple years ago
06:09 PM roycroft: i don't know what happened to that
06:09 PM JT-Shop: some states realize that is crazy shit to change the time
06:09 PM roycroft: i know who to blame for it though - california
06:09 PM JT-Shop: everything is illegal in california
06:09 PM roycroft: all three states on the coast agreed to pass legislation switching us to permanent daylight saving time as soon as all three states passed it
06:10 PM roycroft: california proposed it
06:10 PM roycroft: washington and oregon said they would pass it, and did
06:10 PM roycroft: then california said it would pass it
06:10 PM roycroft: and now we're waiting
06:10 PM JT-Shop: I don't care what they pick just freking pick one and stick with it
06:10 PM Tom_L: ^^
06:10 PM roycroft: i don't know what the holdup is
06:11 PM roycroft: your chickens don't go on daylight saving time
06:11 PM JT-Shop: they know dawn, sunrise, sunset, dusk and treat time
06:11 PM XXCoder: roycroft: need one more vote for all 3 states to agree on same time
06:12 PM roycroft: hmm
06:12 PM JT-Shop: and lately I've been failing to grow wheat grass sprouts without mold :(
06:12 PM roycroft: california were supposed to pass it last summer but punted
06:12 PM roycroft: allegedly the state assembly will pass it in january
06:13 PM JT-Shop: in the mean time I'm in Medicare choice hell
06:13 PM roycroft: british columbia want to go on daylight saving time year-around as well
06:14 PM JT-Shop: and I have 34 days to sort that out
06:14 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, lemme know what you figure out :)
06:14 PM Tom_L: i'll have to do that soon enough
06:15 PM JT-Shop: will do, looks like medicare advantage is the best
06:15 PM roycroft: i have to deal with that soon myself, but not this year
06:15 PM JT-Shop: https://www.medicare.gov/plan-compare/#/questions?year=2022&lang=en
06:15 PM Tom_L: i haven't fallen into that ocean yet
06:16 PM roycroft: i want the "when i get sick i want to get fixed up without losing my shirt" plan
06:16 PM JT-Shop: the catch is vision, hearing, and dental
06:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: so when crossing a north south border the time could change
06:16 PM roycroft: yeah, and that just got cut out of the build back better bill
06:16 PM Tom_L: the things we probably need the most
06:17 PM roycroft: but prescription drug price negotiation is staying in - the senator from arizona agreed to that
06:17 PM roycroft: capthindsight: that's a big reason british columbia want to join the party
06:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'm waiting to see what ends up in the version they actually vote on
06:17 PM roycroft: and its the major reason that oregon, california, and washington all agreed to do it together or not at all
06:18 PM roycroft: but still, one could go from california to mexico or vice versa and encounter a timezone change
06:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: didn't most of Europe change last weekend?
06:18 PM roycroft: yes
06:18 PM roycroft: the eu allowed each member state to opt out of the change, but that's not really happened yet
06:18 PM roycroft: and they do it before we do
06:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: parts of Asia are also about another week or so off
06:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and Australia
06:20 PM JT-Shop: chow time here, see you guys in the am
06:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bon appetite
06:21 PM roycroft: ciaoder
06:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: how do you expect specialists like surgeons to live on <$200k/yr
06:28 PM roycroft: the cost is for pharmaceuticals
06:29 PM roycroft: and i don't mind if the ceo of a big pharma company has to take a few million dollar/year pay cut so that seniors don't have to choose between meds or food
06:30 PM roycroft: tort reform and a single-payer system would keep costs down without cutting into the salaries of care providers
06:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if it actually costs hundreds of millions to bring a drug to market I think you are hiring the wrong people and have artificially set to many hurdles in place
06:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: have you ever seen the insane prices they pay for lab chems and tools?
06:32 PM roycroft: free med school would mean that the surgeon does not spend the rest of her life paying back student loans, and that coupled with reduced liability insurance premiums due to the other reforms would be able to significantly lower costs without compromising the quality of care or the resonable compensation of care providers
06:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: you mean most of Europe?
06:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: like
06:33 PM roycroft: yes like the civilized parts of the world
06:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: who said that we are civilized? Don't actions speak louder than words?
06:34 PM roycroft: i think i just implied that we are not
06:34 PM bjorkintosh: I'm having the hardest time finding a reference to explain thou to a friend.
06:34 PM roycroft: i did not say "the rest of the civilized world"
06:34 PM roycroft: i said "the civilized world", which is exclusionary
06:34 PM bjorkintosh: the wikipedia article hasn't been of much help
06:34 PM roycroft: the pronoun thou?
06:34 PM bjorkintosh: they're having trouble understanding anything past the 3rd decimal place.
06:34 PM bjorkintosh: thousand(th,s)
06:34 PM roycroft: it's the second person singular
06:35 PM bjorkintosh: hahahah
06:35 PM roycroft: oh
06:35 PM bjorkintosh: thanks.
06:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 10
06:35 PM roycroft: "thou" should *never* be used in that context
06:35 PM roycroft: it's almost as bad as "mil"
06:35 PM bjorkintosh: what should be used?
06:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: who farts thou?
06:35 PM roycroft: thousandth
06:35 PM tiwake[m]: little fart
06:36 PM tiwake[m]: mils means a lot of other things though
06:36 PM roycroft: thou is the archaic second person singular personal pronoun in the english language, and nothing more
06:36 PM bjorkintosh: I understand it perfectly well in my head, but standard arithmetic is playing havoc with his understanding.
06:36 PM roycroft: that's why it should *never* be used, tiwake
06:36 PM bjorkintosh: but a thou is 0.001
06:36 PM tiwake[m]: we use thous a lot
06:36 PM bjorkintosh: "inches
06:36 PM roycroft: i use thousandths
06:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: show him how binary works or octal
06:36 PM tiwake[m]: where I work
06:36 PM roycroft: i don't think i've ever said "thou" other than as a personal pronoun
06:37 PM tiwake[m]: thy english art in detest
06:37 PM bjorkintosh: well, I explained it in terms of percentages. I suspect that's what inspired whithworth in the first place.
06:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's common amongst machinists in the USA
06:37 PM roycroft: that doesn't make it right
06:38 PM bjorkintosh: well. landing on the moon a few times helps make it right.
06:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: trade speak
06:38 PM roycroft: i still don't buy it
06:39 PM bjorkintosh: which unit of length do you use, roycroft?
06:39 PM roycroft: and refuse to acknowledge it as valid
06:39 PM bjorkintosh: don't tell me you don't advocate 3 barleys to the inch!
06:39 PM roycroft: whatever unit is appropriate at the time
06:39 PM bjorkintosh: 3 barleycorns
06:39 PM tiwake[m]: not my problem some people refuse to use common local verbage
06:39 PM roycroft: there are other things that are common, but still wrong
06:40 PM roycroft: such as "drill bit" when referring to a twist drill
06:40 PM roycroft: it's a twist drill
06:40 PM roycroft: not a drill bit
06:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: mil can also mean millionths
06:40 PM roycroft: i've seen folks use mil as short for millimeter
06:40 PM roycroft: and i've seen it used as short for thousandth
06:40 PM tiwake[m]: or lumber mill or all sorts of other things
06:40 PM roycroft: and i've seen it used as short for thousand
06:41 PM bjorkintosh: <CaptHindsight[m]> mil can also mean millionths that's correct though isn't it?
06:41 PM bjorkintosh: i mean, it's a 1000 of something
06:41 PM bjorkintosh: 1000 of 1000
06:41 PM tiwake[m]: thous is acceptable shorthand verbage
06:41 PM roycroft: so even if one agreed on units generally, the meaning of 'mil' could be off by six orders of magnitude
06:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: why context matters
06:42 PM tiwake[m]: or maybe they want to use the knee mill
06:42 PM satiowadahc[m]: In the painting shop at work they use mil-mm thickness of paint per mm. Talk about pain
06:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: micron vs Macron
06:43 PM roycroft: a thousandth of an inch is a thousandth of an inch, and there's no way to think of it any other way
06:43 PM roycroft: as well millimeter is a millimeter
06:43 PM roycroft: but a mil can be any random thing
06:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: circular vs square mills
06:43 PM tiwake[m]: a thousandth of a meter
06:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://electriciantraining.tpub.com/14176/css/Figure-1-2-A-Comparison-Of-Circular-And-Square-Mils-15.htm
06:44 PM bjorkintosh: damn. there's no good reference at all. one simply knows or it one doesn't.
06:44 PM * roycroft thinks it's time to ponder the evening meal
06:47 PM tiwake[m]: CaptHindsight: what did you suggest I do for a controller for my little tabletop CNC mill?
06:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Rpi is just starting to work well with an STM32 board called the SKR V2 using Remora
06:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: there is also an OrangePi that works all on its own with LCNC, but boards are hard to get a hold of right now
06:50 PM tiwake[m]: do I need some mesa stuff?
06:52 PM bjorkintosh: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Miscellaneous_Papers_on_Mechanical_Subjects/A_Paper_on_Standard_Decimal_Measures_of_Length
06:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: with the Rpi the Mesa boards are also a good match
06:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tiwake: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/43988-remora-1-0-0-rc-released-for-testing
06:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/39037-linuxcnc-orange-pi-allwincnc
06:53 PM bjorkintosh: what about the beagle board and lcnc?
06:55 PM tiwake[m]: maybe something like this https://www.microcenter.com/product/615270/canakit-raspberry-pi-4-starter-max-kit-(4gb-ram)
06:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tiwake: https://www.amazon.com/Orange-Pi-Open-Source-Computer-Support/dp/B096JXFFXP/ref=sr_1_3 + a $12 BOB and you are good to go
06:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but you need to build Linux and LCNC just right
06:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: development has stalled a bit due to lack of boards being available recently
06:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tiwake: sure that works along with mesa but then you are in the $300 range
06:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Rpi4 + Mesa is the easiest to run right now
06:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: download the Rpi4 sd card img and plug the card into mesa or use the ethernet mesa cards with a bit more software configuring time
07:01 PM tiwake[m]: hmm
07:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bjorkintosh: machinekit had lots of support for the beagleboard black
07:01 PM tiwake[m]: which mesa thing do I want?
07:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bjorkintosh: the OrangePi with LCNC is a similar project
07:02 PM tiwake[m]: also who was it that was selling mesa stuff in here?
07:02 PM tiwake[m]: I can never remember
07:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tiwake: Mesa has two boards that the Rpi plugs into and uses SPI or you can use the Mesa Ethernet cards with the Rpi4
07:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the Rpi3 had ethernet over USB so the Ethernet Mesa cards are out for those but the Rpi3 boards plug and play into the mesa cards with SPI, i forget the part numbers
07:04 PM tiwake[m]: what about the pi4 boards?
07:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tiwake: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=338
07:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: OR http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=345&search=RPI+
07:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: those two ^^ work with Rpi3 or Rpi4
07:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I think everyone is just using the Rpi4's with them now
07:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc-2.8.1-pi4.zip Raspberry Pi 4 Uspace compatible with Mesa Ethernet and SPI interface boards.
07:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tiwake: the easiest way for the time being ^^
07:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and you get a well made board, the Mesa cards are made better than the Rpi's
07:08 PM tiwake[m]: I don't doubt it
07:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so your choice
07:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: budget vs cost vs software config time
07:09 PM tiwake[m]: I don't have much time these days... lul
07:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: vs reliabity
07:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so Rpi4 + mesa
07:10 PM tiwake[m]: and I need a breakout board?
07:10 PM tiwake[m]: for steppers
07:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the SPI based Rpi Mesa board are also the breakout board http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=345&search=RPI+
07:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: are/is
07:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the other model just has headers
07:12 PM tiwake[m]: >The 7C80 has 6 channels of differential Step/dir outputs with
07:12 PM tiwake[m]: I see
07:13 PM tiwake[m]: nifty
07:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: depends on what you want to control
07:13 PM tiwake[m]: just a tabletop CNC mill thing that will likely slowly get upgrades
07:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: servos and encoders, etc then the http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=338
07:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: this one works with other mesa 25 pin daughtercards
07:15 PM roycroft: rpi + mesa 7i96 is perfect for steppers
07:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they both do but it depends on if you want those 3.5 mm screw terminal blocks or not right on the board
07:16 PM roycroft: at least i hope so, because that's what i have
07:16 PM roycroft: and that's what jt suggested, so i'm pretty sure it's the right choice
07:17 PM * roycroft can't figure out a good place to mount his vfd :(
07:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYNx_QEdks8
07:20 PM Tom_L: roycroft, i stuck mine on the wall
07:20 PM Tom_L: but i don't plan on moving the mill
07:23 PM roycroft: there is no wall near my mill at the moment
07:23 PM roycroft: i thought about sticking it on the back
07:23 PM roycroft: but if i move it next to a wall again that would cause problems
07:23 PM roycroft: although at that point i would be able to mount it on the wall
07:24 PM Tom_L: i had no room in the box
07:25 PM roycroft: i was going to mount it on the left side of the mill, same side as the motor
07:25 PM roycroft: but since they send me a bigger vfd than i ordered and needed, it would interfere with the motor
07:26 PM roycroft: i have to look at things again, but i do want to mount it on the mill column somewhere if possible
07:26 PM roycroft: i'd like to keep the wire run from the vfd to the motor as short as is reasonable
07:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: suspended from a gantry over the mill?
07:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://i.imgur.com/k6H0MPo.jpg the VFD is mounted about 6 feet (2m) from the spindle motor without any problems
07:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: for these small CNC routers I mount the VFD in the control cabinet https://i.imgur.com/zsxG2mT.jpg
07:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the cabinet might be below, to the side or above the router
07:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the casting broke where the handle that moves the Z on this grinder https://i.imgur.com/n2LrjTJ.jpg
07:34 PM roycroft: my mill is not cnc'ed at the moment
07:34 PM roycroft: it is a manual machine
07:34 PM roycroft: i'll find a place for the vfd
07:34 PM roycroft: it just won't be as easy as i wanted, nor where i wanted
07:37 PM Tom_L: next i need to test some rotary code. i didn't know my cad cam supported it. i thought it was just for indeing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN9aw9094ag
07:37 PM Tom_L: maybe not
08:45 PM roycroft: holy moly
08:45 PM roycroft: an ambulance pulled up at the duplexes behind me a few minutes ago
08:45 PM roycroft: and then two more ambulances arrived
09:03 PM roycroft: i don't see any cop cars - just the three ambulances and a fire truck
09:04 PM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, man you were right, the bits of my code for writing out my save file with 20+ variables all on a single line is cancer to work with. I am redoing it all so each one has its own line. https://pastebin.com/35mWPUeW
09:04 PM roycroft: and i did not hear any kind of ruckus, and certainly nothing like a gunshot
09:04 PM roycroft: jt-shop is gone until the morrow
09:04 PM roycroft: he's a family man - don't expect to see him at night
09:05 PM aaroncnc: roycroft, yea keep forgetting that.
09:05 PM XXCoder: roy could be accient gassing of home or something
09:05 PM XXCoder: more than one person, no shootings
09:06 PM tiwake[m]: was it aaroncnc who resells the mesa electronics stuff?
09:06 PM aaroncnc: tiwake[m], no
09:06 PM tiwake[m]: who then
09:07 PM aaroncnc: unless there are multiple of me that i am unaware of.
09:12 PM roycroft: if foul play were even remotely suspected, there would be cops all over the place
09:12 PM XXCoder: yeah thats why I suspect its just some basic leak or accient that hurt few people somehow
09:12 PM roycroft: as well if there were a threat to the safety of people nearby
09:12 PM roycroft: which a gas leak would be
09:12 PM XXCoder: that or police is too lazy to go
09:16 PM XXCoder: Tom_L: nice video
09:16 PM XXCoder: though dont spring coupler add backlash? (probably not a worry since its many rotations per degree)
09:18 PM Tom_L: not that much if any
09:20 PM Tom_L: 40:1 i doubt it breaks either
09:20 PM XXCoder: yeah
09:29 PM skunkworks: I was measuring the backlash on the cincinati - I measured the movement at the key way (1.75 diameter) it was moving about .020"
09:29 PM skunkworks: at 1.75 and 2 threads per inch - that is about 11:1
09:29 PM skunkworks: so <.002" actual backlash..
09:29 PM skunkworks: might just try it and see
09:30 PM skunkworks: it looks like it will be a lot of work getting into the z leadscrew.
09:31 PM Tom_L: what diameter are they on that thing?
09:31 PM skunkworks: z is like 2.5"
09:31 PM skunkworks: x is maybe 1.5"
09:48 PM bjorkintosh: so if a thou and a mil are interchangeable, ie, both meaning something around .001,
09:48 PM bjorkintosh: how do you distinguish it from a millionth?
09:48 PM Tom_L: but a tenth is .0001
09:48 PM bjorkintosh: mil, ie.
09:49 PM Tom_L: geographic location
09:49 PM bjorkintosh: hahahah
09:49 PM skunkworks: lol!
10:01 PM XXCoder: man
10:01 PM XXCoder: i love machine thinking channel on yt
10:01 PM XXCoder: im watching patreon status video and its awesome
10:04 PM Tom_L: so on a rotary when you comand G0 A0 is there a way to have linuxcnc take the shortest path there?
10:05 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/c/machinethinking/videos if curious
10:05 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: look at wrapped rotary?
10:05 PM Tom_L: i have that in the config
10:07 PM Tom_L: i also have the cad cam set up for that i think
10:07 PM Tom_L: and it may take care of that, i'm not sure
10:07 PM Tom_L: but
10:08 PM Tom_L: i was thinking more of a 'home' button i added
10:09 PM skunkworks: how are you sensing home?
10:09 PM Tom_L: well, i'm not yet
10:09 PM Tom_L: i don't have a switch wired up yet
10:09 PM Tom_L: but
10:09 PM Tom_L: i set it with the coordinate system
10:09 PM Tom_L: like you set up a g54 55 etc offset
10:10 PM skunkworks: currently I just home the rotary axis where it sits..
10:10 PM Tom_L: it does return to zero
10:10 PM Tom_L: i could do that but at least for this test i was watching the degrees on the head
10:13 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:19 PM Tom_itx: for now at least these are the settings: http://paste.debian.net/1217999
10:23 PM skunkworks: you stepgen max velocity seems odd...
10:23 PM skunkworks: and maxacceleration
10:24 PM skunkworks: doesn't that need to be 20% higher than your axis max acceleration?
10:24 PM Tom_L: i'm still fiddling with that but those settings were in place for the video
10:24 PM skunkworks: you would certainly get following errors if the stepgen cannot keep up
10:25 PM Tom_L: if i set that too high it won't run
10:25 PM Tom_L: i get some kind of error that i exceeded the step limits
10:25 PM Tom_L: i didn't keep track of that one
10:25 PM skunkworks: Then you need to lower the axis accelleration..
10:26 PM skunkworks: stepgen_maxvel can be 0
10:26 PM Tom_L: i started out around nothing
10:26 PM skunkworks: don't worry about that one.
10:26 PM Tom_L: yes, i had it set to 0 for a while
10:26 PM Tom_L: i was mainly changing the max vel and accleration and the limits in the [DISPLAY] section
10:27 PM Tom_itx: MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 3.50
10:27 PM Tom_itx: DEFAULT_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 2.50
10:27 PM Tom_L: woops wrong one
10:27 PM Tom_itx: MAX_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 15
10:29 PM Tom_L: as i was raising the numbers, i never heard it miss steps which was what i was looking for
10:30 PM Tom_L: then i was gonna back off a bit but i ran out of energy and called it for another day
10:30 PM skunkworks: rescapind
10:30 PM skunkworks: rescapind
10:32 PM skunkworks: too many keyboards
10:32 PM * Tom_L can relate to that
10:33 PM Tom_L: and one of mine can switch between 3 pcs
10:33 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: http://paste.debian.net/1218000/
10:34 PM skunkworks: that is my current a axis.. I think I sped it up a ton but didn't save it
10:34 PM Tom_L: what's the screw ratio?
10:35 PM Tom_L: your scale is double mine
10:35 PM Tom_L: err the commented one is anyway
10:36 PM skunkworks: lol - don't remember. This is the printed harmonic drive rotary
10:36 PM Tom_L: oh
10:36 PM skunkworks: 101:1
10:36 PM Tom_L: :)
10:36 PM Tom_L: what is output_scale for?
10:36 PM skunkworks: that is carry over from an analog output. For scaling the dac
10:37 PM Tom_L: nothing in the ini description for it
10:37 PM skunkworks: it would be hooked to the pwm scale. IIRC
10:38 PM skunkworks: video?
10:39 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZMAnER9WFo
10:39 PM Tom_L: using those settings
10:40 PM skunkworks: COOL!
10:41 PM Tom_L: i thought you'd seen it
10:41 PM skunkworks: missed it
10:42 PM Tom_L: so all these settings are confusing especially when jt used the wizzard and came up with some very different numbers
10:42 PM skunkworks: get the axis/joint working at the speed you want..
10:42 PM skunkworks: set the traj section high..
10:43 PM skunkworks: following error should be low.
10:43 PM Tom_L: i don't have anything in traj for angular other than units
10:44 PM Tom_L: display has those
10:44 PM Tom_L: and why does it need them in both places?
10:44 PM Tom_L: (more confusion)
10:44 PM skunkworks: lol
10:44 PM Tom_itx: MAX_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 15
10:45 PM Tom_itx: those are in the display section
10:45 PM Tom_itx: and
10:45 PM skunkworks: I think those are for the jog slider?
10:45 PM Tom_itx: i found i need some settings in axis and joint both
10:45 PM Tom_itx: yeah those are for the jog slider
10:45 PM Tom_itx: so should i put them or something similar in TRAJ too?
10:46 PM skunkworks: yes - because joints are used for homing and such while axis is used for the trajectory planner.
10:46 PM Tom_itx: shold they be the same values?
10:46 PM skunkworks: I don't know if you need it in the traj....
10:46 PM Tom_itx: well it works without :)
10:46 PM skunkworks: there you go...
10:47 PM skunkworks: it should be the limit of the axis. I think if you jogged it in one direction for a long time - you would still get a following error (with those settings) because the stepgen would not keep up.
10:48 PM Tom_L: true
10:48 PM Tom_L: and it does
10:48 PM skunkworks: I would lower your axis/joint settings lower than your stepgen
10:48 PM skunkworks: then figure out what max stepgen settings you can do with your current setup. and set the axis/joit accordingly.
10:48 PM skunkworks: is this mesa?
10:48 PM Tom_L: then it would take a week for a full rotation:)
10:48 PM Tom_L: yes mesa
10:48 PM skunkworks: https://youtu.be/aULKb7VSnK4?t=57
10:48 PM Tom_L: 7i90
10:49 PM skunkworks: that was mesa...
10:49 PM skunkworks: pretty much the limit of the stepper
10:49 PM Tom_L: direct drive
10:52 PM skunkworks: ? this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdfKre6zpEY
10:52 PM Tom_L: yeah i remember it
10:55 PM Tom_L: well i'm gonna call it a night
10:55 PM skunkworks: Me too...
10:55 PM XXCoder: o/
11:08 PM aaroncnc: night