#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 28 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:50 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:03 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:06 AM Deejay: moin
02:27 AM TurBoss: Mining
02:27 AM TurBoss: Moning
02:35 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:35 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:36 AM Tom_L: morning
08:19 AM JT-Cave: morning
08:21 AM Tom_L: getting chillier every morning :)
08:28 AM Tom_L: working on the A axis config... getting a following error so far but i just started
09:06 AM perry_j1987: morning
09:08 AM aaroncnc: JT-Cave, JT-Shop, your paraport config tool will it only run on x86 platforms?
09:14 AM aaroncnc: hmm the new rpi0 2 is going to be 15$ and the same amount of ram as the first one 512mb. for the extra money i was hoping for at least a 1 gig.
09:30 AM JT-Shop: last time I built a deb was on x86
09:31 AM aaroncnc: JT-Cave, JT-Shop, i had to mod it to open on an arm machine.
09:31 AM JT-Shop: the rpi tool?
09:32 AM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, your parallel port tool, im looking at playing with it to better learn how to make a hal and ini files.
09:33 AM JT-Shop: https://github.com/jethornton/7i96/blob/master/7i96/src/lib7i96/buildhal.py
09:39 AM JT-Shop: all my configuration tools are amd64 and the building of hal and ini files should be the same
09:40 AM JT-Shop: I have no clue why I read parallel port tester and not parallel port config tool lol
09:52 AM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, seems on all your tools the os path setting is broken for arm based machines
09:54 AM aaroncnc: no worries a quick move of the self.libpath and devel =false out of th if statments fixes it
09:57 AM JT-Shop: I don't test them on arm machines but I wonder why the path is different?
09:58 AM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, tbh i dont know enough to tell ya. i know just enough to fiddle with things.
09:59 AM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, also on your 7i96 tool i see for inputs a homing option and then a limit option but no home+limit combo.
10:00 AM JT-Shop: good catch, missed that one
10:02 AM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, i have to use it as remora uses each encoder index pulse as a input and it only supports 8 inputs total. so i lose half with encoders so i have to use combos. the other combo i use sometimes is all home input and all limit input. so i only use 2 pins. then i just have to set sequential homing
10:03 AM JT-Shop: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/config/ini-homing.html#_home_ignore_limits
10:12 AM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, im thinking it would be alot faster for me to fork the tool and then add the remora config gen part to it. than for me to make a hal and ini config tool. any objections?
10:13 AM JT-Shop: help yourself
10:20 AM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, never forked anyone else work before any advice?
10:33 AM JT-Shop: on the phone with a customer and have to leave to bail him out
10:34 AM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, good luck
10:34 AM JT-Shop: honestly you can just copy it and change what you like
10:35 AM JT-Shop: there is a fork button on github I see that the 7i96 has been forked 10 times :)
10:35 AM aaroncnc: i was the 10th.
10:35 AM JT-Shop: I see that now
10:35 AM aaroncnc: seems people like the tool.
10:35 AM JT-Shop: aye or my programming lol
10:36 AM aaroncnc: why not both!
10:36 AM JT-Shop: could be :)
10:52 AM JT-Cave: it does make sense to have an armf deb for the 7i96 as you can use one on a rpi4
10:59 AM JT-Cave: armhf even
11:05 AM firephoto__ is now known as firephoto_
11:37 AM unterhausen: I'm using my 7i96 on a pi4
11:49 AM roycroft: that's what i'll be doing for my cnc router, unterhausen
11:58 AM unterhausen: anyone ever used xometry for machining?
12:12 PM perry_j1987: new raspberry pi zero w 2 out today
12:47 PM aaroncnc: perry_j1987, yea saw it both happy and sad still 512mb of ram.
12:47 PM perry_j1987: aye
12:47 PM perry_j1987: much more useable though still
12:47 PM perry_j1987: and 64bit too
12:54 PM aaroncnc: yea but at that price im not sure about it. i have about 5 zeros in a drawer that i got for 3.14$ each on pi day and that was a great deal. even at 5$ the zero was a good deal. but 15$ for still 512mb of ram. i understand the silicon shortage may had something to do with the price but still cant help but feel 10$ is the mark i would pay
12:58 PM roycroft: i'm not sure what i would use one for
12:58 PM roycroft: i'd like to do a home automation system again, and that was my initial thought
12:58 PM roycroft: but the relays would cost more than the pis
12:59 PM roycroft: i used to have an x10 system, where the controllers would signal via the mains, and that was nice
01:01 PM roycroft: and a pi zero would still need a wifi or ethernet adapter to work for that application
01:02 PM aaroncnc: they are good for somethings, i use them for octoprint with a cheap usp web cam set to take a photo every 1 seconds. the zeros that i have all have built in wifi
01:02 PM roycroft: oh, i did not see that in the specifications
01:02 PM roycroft: i use a rpi4 for octoprint
01:02 PM roycroft: and i have a webcam that i bought at the goodwill attached to that
01:02 PM roycroft: it's to interface with my 3d printer
01:03 PM roycroft: the rpi4 may be a little bit of overkill for doing that, but they're still relatively cheap
01:03 PM aaroncnc: i felt a rpi4 was a bit overkill for something like that. i dont want octoprint to slice or do anything just start the prints.
01:04 PM aaroncnc: octoprint says you should not use the zero but you just have to not use video stream and instead snapshots to keep the cpu load down. i have never had any problems with them.
01:04 PM aaroncnc: and its great just being able to upload directly from my slicer to octo and it starts.
01:09 PM StopFutzing: Hello everybody, my plasma doesn't work. It has Interference problems . Here you have the chance to stop me from throughing it from the 5 floor down onto a street
01:11 PM StopFutzing: As soon as the torch enabled and igniting, it freezes up, sometimes even the mouse point hickups
01:15 PM StopFutzing: Experimented with grounding, combined ground from 5V - under 24V -, Wired this to the earth terminal of the outlet. I tried adding the torch lead as ground, too. Used Cat5 for 24 + 5V power, used all the shielding mesh in the Cat5 cable as ground. Nothing helps
01:15 PM StopFutzing: "5V and 24V" I meant
01:16 PM StopFutzing: This is a busy chat room, huh?
01:17 PM Tom_L: i say throw it!
01:17 PM Tom_L: wanna see if you would :)
01:17 PM Tom_L: unfortunately JT-Shop isn't here right now and he's a plasma guru
01:18 PM Tom_L: as far as grounding, you need a star ground configuration
01:18 PM Tom_L: shield all the signal wires
01:18 PM Tom_L: i shielded my motor wires as well
01:18 PM Tom_L: mine is a regular mill though
01:18 PM Tom_L: not that it matters
01:19 PM perry_j1987: ya pi4 is overkill for octoprint i think
01:19 PM Tom_L: make sure your earth ground is at zero potential or that could be a bad problem
01:21 PM JT-Shop: hmmm, all grounds to a common point, any shielded wire shield grounded ONLY on one end
01:21 PM * JT-Shop must have stealth mode on...
01:21 PM Tom_L: well you did say you were on a dire emergency call earlier :)
01:21 PM JT-Shop: it was an easy fix :)
01:22 PM Tom_L: push the "ON" button?
01:22 PM JT-Shop: programmer forgot to finish his work when adding new features to an assembly machine...
01:22 PM roycroft: unplug the linksys router, count to ten, and plug it back in
01:22 PM roycroft: that's how to fix most things these days
01:23 PM Tom_L: so i'm getting a joint3 following error with this configuration and i'm not sure where to go from here: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/NEW_MILL_SHOP_2.8.1/new_mill_A.hal http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/NEW_MILL_SHOP_2.8.1/new_mill_A.ini
01:23 PM Tom_L: it tries to move then errors out on the first stepper step
01:24 PM Tom_L: it does try to move both directions
01:24 PM Tom_L: same error either way
01:24 PM andypugh: I am 3D printing pattress box covers: https://photos.app.goo.gl/3E6Ja8wUtPUy4g3E8
01:24 PM andypugh: (The one flat on the desk is OEM from MK)
01:25 PM JT-Shop: this does not look correct STEPGEN_MAXVEL = 0
01:26 PM andypugh: MAXVEL=0 just means “no limit”
01:26 PM JT-Shop: ah
01:26 PM roycroft: doesn't it cost more for electricity to print a pattress box than to purchase one ready-made?
01:26 PM andypugh: Well, yes, but then you don’t have the mounting for a PCB and a couple of DS18B20 sensors, do you
01:27 PM andypugh: https://photos.app.goo.gl/JXWouE61x7Ns1nP37
01:27 PM roycroft: the bespoke aspect is the appeal, then
01:27 PM StopFutzing: Not so dead after all here .... JT-Shop, and others. My steppers controller and the BOB is all in a gutted pc-powersupply box. The metal case is grounded. I'm driving it all directly via parallel port (2 cables connceted for ~4m length).
01:28 PM andypugh: * The photo above is a protoype of a protype, the resistor will not be needed in the real application.
01:28 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, i borrowed the basic setup from the x axis
01:28 PM Tom_L: making a few changes since it's angular
01:28 PM Tom_L: gonna take a break but if you see anything...
01:29 PM andypugh: StopFutzing: You might struggle with a parallel port and Plasma. It’s inherently high-noise.
01:29 PM andypugh: I seem to recall that it’s important where the plasma earth clamp connects.
01:30 PM andypugh: A lot of folk use ethernet-connected driver boards just for the isolation.
01:31 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, try setting the ferror and min-ferror to some high number
01:31 PM JT-Shop: me punches in and goes back to work
01:32 PM Tom_L: ok but first a nap :)
01:33 PM StopFutzing: The cables on the machine directly are not shielded (I didn't think I could fit shielded ones in the drag chains. The plasma cutting (and HF start) wire is also in the drag chain, so it's running along side the stepper motor wires and endstop wires. I guess that could be a problem. However the machine once it kind of worked during earlier testing,
01:33 PM StopFutzing: also long as all cases where properly closed. Then I moved it to in a different location in the room and actually replaced/reenforced unshielded power cable with shielded. That makes me thing the unshielded stepper and endstop wires running along the plasma cutting wire in the drag chain isn't neccesarily a problem.
01:33 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, i thought i'd changed that but it must not have made it into that copy
01:34 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, is it a PITA to set the docs to default to expanded?
01:34 PM andypugh: StopFutzing: I am no expert, I have never used a plasma at all. You might do better in the “Plasmac” part of the LinuxCNC Forum.
01:35 PM andypugh: StopFutzing: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_85&product_id=302 might help. Or might just be a waste of money. That’s equivalent to an ethernet-connected parallel port. But one that can step at 10Mhz…
01:40 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, one button does that
01:40 PM StopFutzing: I wanted to first to the to run, if slowly, via parallel port. I imagined given the relatively high voltages of the parallel port (12V I think) and the slow and old nature of it, I might be a bit more robust. I tried motherboard internal parallel ports and parallel port cards. Also tried 3 different PC's
01:40 PM JT-Shop: it's hiding in plain sight at the top of the page and is called Expand Documents
01:41 PM StopFutzing: I wondern if it's the PC <-> card connection, or the stepper motor cards in the box having trouble with noise. If it's the later, a mesa card wouldn't help.
01:42 PM StopFutzing: sorry for the typos
01:44 PM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, well after looking at your projects i decided to go back to the paraport config tool as the base. the added bits for the 7i96 will make it harder.
01:45 PM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, its taking me a min to learn the dynamic button creation but thats very slick
01:49 PM JT-Shop: yeah that's pretty cool way to do that
01:53 PM unterhausen: I was shopping for 1/2" extensions for 4" boxes yesterday and they too expensive and nobody carries them
01:53 PM unterhausen: just realized I could print them
02:00 PM JT-Shop: I think I'm ready to make some delrin chips
02:00 PM StopFutzing: are they tasty?
02:00 PM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, do you use tabs or spaces?
02:01 PM StopFutzing: spaces are for homos
02:02 PM StopFutzing: (sensitivity warning: meant ironically)
02:03 PM aaroncnc: why ohh why is notepad++ have python set to use spaces when you hit the tab key....
02:04 PM aaroncnc: at least they give you the option to turn it off, this should speed me up a bit.
02:08 PM JT-Shop: aaroncnc, tabs
02:08 PM JT-Shop: spaces are a royal pain and I also use genie with white space turned on so I can see the tabs
02:09 PM StopFutzing: JT-Shop what do you mean by only ground in one place? It's hard to prevent ... the plasma cutters case might be grounded too, compressor could be grounded, Parallel Port and USB are grounded by themselves
02:20 PM JT-Shop: I'm talking about the 24vdc and 5vdc having a common ground
02:20 PM JT-Shop: some plasma cutters are so noisy you need a ground rod very close to the plasma torch
02:34 PM Tom_L: ok i got the stepper to move but it has little power and still errors after a bit
02:34 PM Tom_L: heading in the right direction i hope
02:35 PM NoGodDamnIdea: hello everyone
02:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: StopFutzing: star ground
02:36 PM Tom_L: that's been mentioned
02:37 PM Tom_L: but worth repeating
02:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: star ground vs loops
02:37 PM roycroft: i don't know about plasma cutters, but my tig welder has its own separate ground
02:38 PM roycroft: as in, i drove a copper grounding rod into the ground outside my fabrication shop and connect the tig welder frame directly to that
02:39 PM roycroft: the subpanel that feeds the shop also have the ground bus and split phase return bus isolated from each other
02:39 PM roycroft: has, rather
02:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's difficult to diagnose further without pics and drawing of the current wiring
02:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: details matter
02:40 PM roycroft: so it looks like all of facebook's problems are over
02:40 PM roycroft: because they are no longer facebook - they are now meta
02:41 PM roycroft: which is actually a more apt name for them
02:41 PM roycroft: but doesn't change anything substantial
02:42 PM roycroft: the first thing to do is clamp an ammeter around the ground wire and see if any measurable current is flowing over it when the plasma torch is turned on
02:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just another stupid people magnet
02:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how history will see it
02:43 PM roycroft: with my new position (which will be offical as of next monday) as a board officer for the country fair i'll need to use facebook upon occasion
02:44 PM * Tom_L snickers a bit in a sad way
02:44 PM roycroft: but i'll be able to use an existing fair account, and won't have to use any of my own personal information
02:44 PM roycroft: and i can vpn to facebook when i have to do those things
02:44 PM roycroft: so i'll be more difficult to trace
02:44 PM roycroft: i have this conflicting ability to be both idealistic and realistic at the same time, tom_l
02:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4jir66 reminds me of
02:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the show was ahead of its time
02:53 PM StopFutzing: meta = short for metastasized
02:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: StopFutzing: " I'm driving it all directly via parallel port (2 cables connceted for ~4m length). " that is pushing it for LPT cables in a not noisy environment
02:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: StopFutzing: do you have a picture of the whole setup and also a detail of how the controller is currently wired?
02:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sometimes a machine is described as a Haas but later appears to be made of scrap driftwoods
03:00 PM Tom_L: somewhere there was a stepper timing page
03:00 PM Tom_L: for various drives
03:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: it's in the stepper tuning section of the wiki
03:01 PM Tom_L: found it
03:02 PM Tom_L: i wonder if they've changed it with this new driver
03:02 PM Tom_L: the others work fine
03:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Drive_Timing this one?
03:03 PM Tom_L: yeah
03:03 PM Tom_L: dir setup dir hold are the same
03:06 PM StopFutzing: CaptHindsight[m] interesting about the parallel port ... does anybody know why? I also though low speed + high voltage = more immune
03:07 PM Tom_L: i know it's a smaller stepper than on the other axis (282 in oz compared to 570) but i shouldn't be able to hold the coupler and stop the stepper
03:07 PM Tom_L: more tuning...
03:07 PM Tom_L: and after a bit still get joint errors
03:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: I just skimmed the INI, you are not using any external feedback so the following error has to be a config issue
03:09 PM Tom_L: i'm not seeing steplen stepspace in the ini anymore either
03:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: usually a typo
03:09 PM Tom_L: i copied the x axis but this is for a rotary so some things need to be adjusted
03:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: accel or spped, decimal point one place off or similar
03:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: speed even
03:11 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/NEW_MILL_SHOP_2.8.1/new_mill_A.ini
03:11 PM Tom_L: there's the ini if you wanna look
03:11 PM Tom_L: the hal is there too
03:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: run the numbers based on your ratios, micro stepps etc, you'll likely see the problem
03:12 PM Tom_L: maybe
03:12 PM Tom_L: :)
03:13 PM Tom_L: i used the same microsteps as the x axis and it's just sitting on the bench
03:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: check FERROR limits
03:13 PM Tom_L: i adjusted those up quite a bit
03:13 PM Tom_L: maybe i need more
03:13 PM JT-Shop: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/config/stepper-diagnostics.html#_following_error
03:14 PM Tom_L: i _just_ started putzing with it
03:14 PM StopFutzing: CaptHindsight[m] the machine is currently burried under a pile, I kind of stoned it for not working. And it really is just a rats nest in of currently 3 TMC2160 controllers and the parallel port breakout port in a PC-PSU box. Wires crisscrossing everywhere but wired currently pretty much. It works until I turn the torch on.
03:14 PM Tom_L: we're not using a base_period
03:14 PM Tom_L: and i've been fiddling with the other 4
03:14 PM StopFutzing: currently = correctly I meant
03:16 PM Tom_L: i was wondering if those values would be quite a bit different since it's angular not linear
03:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: StopFutzing: PC --> LPT --> BOB --> stepper drives and plasma controls. Is this the setup?
03:16 PM Tom_L: what 'units' does it use?
03:16 PM Tom_L: or is it still from the base period?
03:17 PM Tom_L: servo period in this case
03:18 PM Tom_L: ok my scale will be off because it's not on a ballscrew
03:18 PM Tom_L: but freestanding it should still run
03:18 PM Tom_L: the units would just be off
03:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah the config for the rotary will be different ....
03:19 PM Tom_L: i knew that going into it
03:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's likely trying to spin the rotary like a fan
03:19 PM Tom_L: it's better than when i started
03:19 PM StopFutzing: CaptHindsight[m]: Yes pretty much. not sure what you mean by plasma controls, its limit switches and torch start via the BOB relay. It tried isolating the Z probe via a really, because it's closed to the torch, in case the means anything. But turns out even with no program running, just turning the torch for 3 secs and then trying to move the
03:19 PM StopFutzing: machine doesn't work. Stepper motors seem to disengage momentarily (vertical axis may or may not fall down). I have made a long analog multimeter lead to watch for swings in the voltage and measure directly on the stepper driver boards (5V) and it is steady.
03:20 PM StopFutzing: damn my writing is horrible
03:20 PM Tom_L: i'll at least get the scale where it's supposed to be and go from there
03:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: any IO lines to and from CNC controller and plasma controller
03:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: torch start counts
03:21 PM StopFutzing: CaptHindsight[m] no for now I don't even do that.
03:21 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure how to figure that exactly. is it one degree or a full 360 turn
03:22 PM Tom_L: on linear it's steps per unit... inch or mm
03:22 PM StopFutzing: CaptHindsight[m] well I mean torch start of course, the thing has to be turned on somehow. just bridging the hand switch via a releay.
03:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: I have done that setup many times, but I don't recall..... software configs stay with me for about as long as lunch menus
03:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I might recall lunch menus for a longer time :)
03:23 PM Tom_L: :) less here
03:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: steps per degree for rotary
03:24 PM Tom_L: and i think the screw is 40:1 but i need to check that
03:24 PM Tom_L: ok
03:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and make sure the axis is set to angular rather than linear
03:24 PM Tom_L: i did
03:25 PM Tom_L: and the gecko is 10 microsteps
03:25 PM Tom_L: no jumpers
03:25 PM StopFutzing: I wonder if all the unshielded wires in the dragchain running parallel to the plasma feed are a problem as describe earlier. Although it workt briefly before :-/
03:26 PM Tom_L: unshielded wires anywhere is a bad idea
03:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 10 steps/deg
03:26 PM Tom_L: so 100?
03:27 PM Tom_L: no, gotta factor in the ratio
03:27 PM Tom_L: drive ratio
03:27 PM Tom_L: that seems low compared to the other axis
03:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: StopFutzing: a scope on the machine side of the BOB might reveal how much noise you have
03:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: "the screw is 40:1 " which screw and how is this used for the rotary axis?
03:28 PM Tom_L: the rotary screw
03:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sorry I don't follow
03:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: only on coffee #1 today
03:29 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/rotary/mount/Rotary_mount12.jpg
03:29 PM Tom_L: pic = 1k words
03:29 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight[m]: (just in case it helps: screw = worm)
03:30 PM FinboySlick: From the rotary worm gear.
03:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ah the ration of motor revs (input) to the rotary axis (output)
03:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ratio.ration
03:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so 10 steps per degree of the motor x 40 for the gears = 400 steps per deg
03:31 PM Tom_L: ok
03:31 PM FinboySlick: That sounds like a lot.
03:32 PM Tom_L: FinboySlick, i'm using 10165 on the x axis :)
03:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: FinboySlick: yeah but nice if a low lash box
03:32 PM FinboySlick: To within 1/400th of a degree though?
03:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 0.0025 deg = 9 arc seconds
03:33 PM Tom_L: close enough for my old eyes
03:34 PM StopFutzing: Thanks so far, I will unstone it and give it another try.
03:37 PM Tom_L: so from what i get, the machine units will be different for angular vs linear
03:37 PM Tom_L: so the max_velocity etc will be different units
03:37 PM Tom_L: LINEAR_UNITS = <units> - Specifies the machine units for linear axes. Possible choices are mm or inch. This does not affect the linear units in NC code (the G20 and G21 words do this).
03:37 PM Tom_L: ANGULAR_UNITS = <units> - Specifies the machine units for rotational axes. Possible choices are deg, degree (360 per circle), rad, radian (2pi per circle), grad, or gon (400 per circle). This does not affect the angular units of NC code. In RS274NGC, A-, B- and C- words are always expressed in degrees.
03:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: FinboySlick: https://www.newport.com/p/RV160HAHLT
03:38 PM FinboySlick: Oh damn.
03:38 PM FinboySlick: That'S fancy.
03:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: for reference, 0.0025 deg/step x 10,000 steps/sec = 25 degrees of rotation
03:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so if you are trying to spin that axis quickly you are going to need a servo
03:46 PM Tom_L: no it doesn't need to move fast
03:46 PM Tom_L: someone else here just retrofitted one but i forgot who
03:47 PM Tom_L: this is more for the exercise of setting up a rotary really
03:47 PM Tom_L: i have no pressing jobs for it
03:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but maybe now you can see how rotary settings are so different than linear
03:48 PM Tom_L: i knew they would be but didn't know how much
03:49 PM Tom_L: i need to figure out how to turn homing off for it temporarily
03:49 PM Tom_L: i haven't put a switch or interruptor on it yet
03:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: FinboySlick: https://i.imgur.com/LOriL1y.png one in use here, super precision 5-axis inkjet
03:52 PM JT-Shop: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/config/ini-homing.html#_home_search_vel
03:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: actually 2 in use there
04:00 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight[m]: You have video of that thing working?
04:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: not a public one
04:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: forget when the NDA runs out
04:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I think that one had $70K in servos
04:05 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight[m]: Basically you map a 3d object and print on its surface?
04:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes, funky 5-axis CAM
04:11 PM FinboySlick: Sounds pretty elaborate for 'cosmetic' purposes so I imagine it's for some fancy military stuff.
04:12 PM JT-Shop: delrin blanks to size... might punch out in 30 minutes
04:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: FinboySlick: this one actually was to correct cosmetic imperfections in the surface
04:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: only placed drops where they were missing
04:15 PM FinboySlick: I wonder what sort of product is that important.
04:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: silicon valley fruit company
04:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: lab stuff
04:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or things like this https://youtu.be/VT4eqddXpsg?t=27
04:38 PM roycroft: i think my letsencrypt nightmare may finally be over
04:38 PM * roycroft is tired of dealing with it
04:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://imgur.com/gallery/GjDSRUH another safety video
04:43 PM JT-Shop: anyone know what sfm, feeds and speeds are used on delrin for drilling or milling?
04:44 PM roycroft: i bet bob@cnccookbook.com knows, and would be happy to tell you for a small fee
04:51 PM JT-Shop: https://www.boedeker.com/Technical-Resources/Technical-Library/Plastic-Machining-Guidelines#GENL
04:51 PM Tom_L: https://support.bantamtools.com/hc/en-us/articles/115001668553-Delrin
04:52 PM snakedLX is now known as snaked
04:53 PM roycroft: are you planning on using flood cooling with the delrin?
04:53 PM JT-Shop: no
04:53 PM JT-Shop: I always machine delrin dry
04:53 PM roycroft: hmm
04:54 PM roycroft: and you don't get any problems with heat buildup?
04:54 PM JT-Shop: just want to find info to add to my g code generator
04:54 PM Tom_L: maybe use air?
04:54 PM Tom_L: oh
04:54 PM JT-Shop: no problem if you keep the sfm down and chip load up
04:54 PM JT-Shop: delrin doesn't melt very easy, on the other hand plexiglas does
04:54 PM Tom_L: that site lists a few tools with data
04:55 PM roycroft: i'm not sure if i've ever machined delrin
04:55 PM roycroft: i have machined acrylic a lot though
04:55 PM Tom_L: i think it's more like nylon but i may be mistaken
04:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i recently turned delrin for suspension bushings
04:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: couldn't go fast enough
04:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/amer/us/en/transportation-industrial/public/documents/en/General%20Design%20Principles%20for%20Assembly%20Techniques%20-%20Screws,%20Press%20Fit,%20Snap-fit.pdf if you plan on press fitting Delrin
04:59 PM JT-Shop: this is just a nest to hold the hinge of a Kawasaki 726cc air filter cover
04:59 PM roycroft: i need to go remake the locking collars for my mill motor drive gear, and then the mill will be ready to power up
04:59 PM roycroft: as soon as the vfd arrives, which should be monday
05:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT-Shop: it similar to aluminum for feeds and speeds
05:01 PM JT-Shop: ok, I've read that you need to slow down the feed when the drill is getting close to the exit of a hole
05:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.boedeker.com/Technical-Resources/Technical-Library/Plastic-Machining-Guidelines
05:01 PM roycroft: i picked up some aluminium flat bar today for my gecko drive heat sinks, but i think i'll not make those until the mill is back online
05:01 PM roycroft: it will be easier with the mill
05:03 PM JT-Shop: my Ridgeline is still showing being built the last week of October...
05:04 PM Tom_L: they'd better get a move on it
05:06 PM JT-Shop: interesting Briggs and Stratton after the bankruptcy got bought out and new management here at the Poplar Bluff plant (only one left for single cyl engines) they have turned it around and are making a profit and have way more sales and happy employees
05:07 PM JT-Shop: what a difference from a few years ago...
05:08 PM Tom_L: good to hear
05:09 PM JT-Shop: aye the supporting plants are doing better and I do a lot of work for one of them
05:38 PM JT-Shop: I think I'm ready to machine the nests for the hinge tomorrow then I need a couple of chunks of 6061 for the base
06:11 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, what are you giving for 6061/lb nowdays?
06:12 PM Tom_L: i think this scrap jacked their prices up
08:14 PM roycroft: aah, my mill is ready for power now
08:14 PM roycroft: tom_l: aluminium has gone way up
08:14 PM roycroft: i bought remant today of 6061 - 1/4"x2-1/2" flat bar, 48" long, and it cost me $18
08:15 PM roycroft: that same piece would have been about $12 not too long ago
08:15 PM Tom_L: kinda what i thought
08:16 PM roycroft: the chinese are hoarding it
08:16 PM roycroft: we send it over there to recycle and they're not sending it back
08:24 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Mill-Motor-Mount/
08:24 PM roycroft: that's what i just did with the part jt made for me
08:28 PM Tom_L: good and solid?
08:28 PM roycroft: it seems to be
08:28 PM roycroft: i'll have a better idea when the motor starts spinning round and round
08:28 PM Tom_L: seems like alot of motor on a small plate
08:29 PM roycroft: the old motor was a bit smaller, but the old plate was only 5mm thick
08:29 PM Tom_L: not springy?
08:29 PM roycroft: it sags a tiny bit
08:29 PM roycroft: if it seems not solid enough when it's under power i'll figure out a way to brace it
08:29 PM Tom_L: if you had to you could weld a strip on a side to take care of that
08:30 PM Tom_L: L
08:30 PM roycroft: but you can see from the third picture why that was as thick a plate as i could use
08:30 PM Tom_L: yep
08:30 PM Tom_L: i used up all my space with pulley
08:30 PM roycroft: and i probably would not weld on that plate
08:30 PM roycroft: it would be a bitch getting the powder coating off
08:30 PM roycroft: and it would look like crap after
08:31 PM roycroft: but i could drill and tap a strip and that would help a lot
08:31 PM Tom_L: or even just bolt an angle using the motor bolts themselves
08:31 PM roycroft: i want to see how it is when under power before i decided on anything else
08:31 PM roycroft: yeah
08:32 PM Tom_L: wouldn't need much
08:32 PM roycroft: it might be fine
08:32 PM roycroft: the old plate sagged a little bit too
08:32 PM Tom_L: probably is
08:32 PM roycroft: the old motor hung down from the plate, but the new one is a bit longer and i did not want to risk interference with parts i make
08:32 PM Tom_L: as long as the belt stays aligned and isn't stretched on the top
08:33 PM roycroft: yes
08:33 PM roycroft: right now it looks fine
08:33 PM roycroft: i'll have a much better idea next week, when the vfd arrives
08:34 PM Tom_L: i got 2 configs now
08:34 PM Tom_L: but they both run even if A isn't attached
08:34 PM Tom_L: just the homing etc would be messed up
08:35 PM roycroft: besides making it possible to control the spindle with linuxcnc, this motor/controller upgrade is going to be really nice because i woud trip the overload with the old setup far too often
08:35 PM roycroft: even when just drilling, sometimes
08:35 PM roycroft: it gets tiresome constantly having to reset and restart
08:35 PM Tom_L: i was gonna get a full set of stub drills
08:35 PM roycroft: i want to do that
08:35 PM roycroft: it's on my fairly short list
08:35 PM Tom_L: the local guy could never find a case for them
08:35 PM roycroft: i use huot drill indexes
08:36 PM Tom_L: and things happened and i haven't been back to see if he ever did
08:36 PM roycroft: i figured if i got stub drills i'd put them in the same index as the jobber length drills
08:36 PM roycroft: the index boxes that can mount on a wall, not the hand-held indexes
08:36 PM Tom_L: some are short enough you'd have trouble getting them out
08:36 PM roycroft: the ones with drawers
08:37 PM Tom_L: i've got a 115? set of regular ones
08:37 PM Tom_L: and a crap set of fraction
08:38 PM Tom_L: that belt almost looks like GT2 series
08:39 PM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm/291589889286
08:39 PM roycroft: those kind - i guess they call them "cabinets"
08:39 PM Tom_L: you know as far as the height you could have used an unflanged one on the gear side
08:40 PM Tom_L: yeah my bud had some of those
08:40 PM roycroft: it's a t5mm belts
08:40 PM roycroft: belt
08:40 PM roycroft: i think you said that
08:40 PM roycroft: is what you used
08:40 PM Tom_L: which?
08:41 PM roycroft: the belt
08:41 PM roycroft: t5
08:41 PM Tom_L: my belt is GT2 5mm pitch
08:41 PM roycroft: oh
08:41 PM Tom_L: 15mm wide
08:42 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Spindle/Motor_mounted1.jpg
08:42 PM Tom_L: they look quite similar though
08:43 PM roycroft: https://www.bbman.com/catalog/product/16T5_475
08:43 PM Tom_L: i went unflanged on that for space
08:43 PM roycroft: mine is 16mm wide
08:43 PM Tom_L: plenty wide
08:43 PM roycroft: yes
08:44 PM roycroft: and i could not have put a wider pulley on the motor, so it would not have matter to get an unflanged one for the transmission
08:44 PM roycroft: the flanged one fits
08:44 PM roycroft: your belt looks a little thicker than mine
08:44 PM roycroft: but the pitch is the same
08:45 PM roycroft: mine looks a little flimsy, but it has steel reinforcing belts, so it's probably going to work just fine
08:45 PM Tom_L: yup
08:45 PM Tom_L: is it poly?
08:45 PM roycroft: yes
08:45 PM Tom_L: looks like it
08:46 PM roycroft: anyway, it feels good to have that part all done
08:46 PM roycroft: and now it's time to make dinner
08:46 PM Tom_L: i got a bigger stepper comin for the rotary
08:47 PM Tom_L: same as the other axis
08:47 PM Tom_L: the one i was testing was off the sherline
08:48 PM Tom_L: and it was an upgrade for it
08:48 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure where i put the original ones
09:15 PM roycroft: i'm going to try using the steppers i bought for my mill on the cnc router - i hope they work
09:15 PM roycroft: if not, i guess i'll have to get bigger ones
09:16 PM Tom_L: those i got are a good deal
09:16 PM roycroft: they were the steppers recommended for my mill at the time i bought them, so they will probably be ok for that
09:16 PM roycroft: since i don't have the router fully designed yet i'm really not sure what kind of loads i'll have to deal with
09:17 PM roycroft: at the very least, the ones i have will get started on the project
09:17 PM XXCoder: always better to overspec than under
09:17 PM roycroft: and i only have three stepper motors, because that's what i need for the mill
09:17 PM roycroft: but with the gantry design on the router i'll need four
09:18 PM roycroft: i figure i'll try one of the ones i have on the z before i buy another motor
09:18 PM roycroft: it may be better to overspec than underspec, but it's best to spec correctly, including the correct amount of wiggle room :)
09:19 PM XXCoder: yeah
09:19 PM roycroft: i don't even remember what the torque is on the motors i got
09:19 PM roycroft: i know they're nema 23
09:19 PM XXCoder: dont have label on it?
09:19 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/253223632606
09:19 PM roycroft: they're in a box in a cabinet :)
09:19 PM Tom_L: when i got those they were 99
09:20 PM Tom_L: and i got one more but with a 1/4" shaft
09:20 PM roycroft: i'm thinking mine are a little smaller than that
09:20 PM roycroft: more like 450oz
09:20 PM roycroft: anyway, dinner is ready
09:20 PM roycroft: bbl
09:21 PM XXCoder: thanks for letting me know roycroft on my way now
09:21 PM Tom_L: those are the biggest i could find in nema23
09:23 PM XXCoder: 4 nm thats quite a bit stronger than ones i have
09:24 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:25 PM Tom_L: they're a beast for their size
09:26 PM XXCoder: think mine on router is something like 1.8 NM? or 2.8
09:26 PM XXCoder: forgot, though likely former
09:26 PM Tom_L: the one i was testing is 282 iirc
09:27 PM Tom_L: and the original sherline was 135 i think
09:28 PM XXCoder: ah 1.1 NM
09:28 PM XXCoder: yeah very weak lol
10:27 PM aaroncnc: JT-Shop, i decided to try to use my hmi after all. your code is amazing and so elegant, but i am having a hard time with it. i spent the last hour trying to make my own nested menu select for the input and outputs in my application. even with your code to reference its taking me some time. Next thing to do is to split my functions into files to try and keep things sane and to save me scrolling a bunch
10:28 PM roycroft: it's probably best to try to chat with jt during the daytime - he's in the central time zone in the us, so it's after 10pm there
10:28 PM aaroncnc: Also i dont understand the palette options as it seems to just ignore them all the time, seems only style sheet works.
10:28 PM aaroncnc: roycroft, its 11pm in est
10:28 PM roycroft: well
10:29 PM roycroft: eddt :)
10:29 PM aaroncnc: not normaly up this late but sleep be damned i was going to figure this out
10:29 PM roycroft: edt, rather
10:29 PM roycroft: i'm just saying jt is not usually around evenings
10:29 PM aaroncnc: roycroft, rgr that.
10:30 PM roycroft: i'm on the west coast, so it's still early evening here, but i'm almost done for the day myself