#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 25 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:58 AM randy: morning
02:13 AM Deejay: moin
02:28 AM Loetmichel_ is now known as Loetmichel
04:35 AM Tom_L: morning
04:36 AM CloudEvil: hey
04:36 AM XXCoder: o/
04:44 AM mrec: does anyone have experience with milling with an 1mm endmill?
04:45 AM XXCoder: few of us answered that question but you didnt seem to come back after orginial question'
04:51 AM mrec: when/where?
04:51 AM mrec: well I just got my 1mm endmill HSS-Co today
04:53 AM XXCoder: hmm yeserday? few days ago?
04:53 AM XXCoder: by you, in here
04:54 AM mrec: must have been a few days ago then, I'm still working on that object
04:58 AM XXCoder: ok well maybe more specific question is better?>
05:17 AM mrec: XXCoder: I wonder what cutting depth I should use
05:17 AM XXCoder: ahh good question, its balance of rpm and how mstrong materal is
05:17 AM XXCoder: after all, it has tiny flutes need to keep clear
05:17 AM XXCoder: unfortunately i dont remember more details than that
05:18 AM mrec: I want to mill 0.8mm copper
05:19 AM mrec: https://snipboard.io/ITU0rW.jpg
05:19 AM mrec: that's the object
05:19 AM XXCoder: copper is fairly hard but wont gum up like alum
05:19 AM XXCoder: interesting
05:19 AM mrec: I have no problem with aluminium
05:19 AM XXCoder: do you have scrap copper?
05:19 AM mrec: only the top windows are left, the rest is done already
05:20 AM mrec: I have my first prototype it's not 100% aligned (I just figured out I shouldn't use the front face of my vise for aligning the stock)
05:21 AM mrec: however it looks pretty good and I'll be fine with the second part
05:21 AM mrec: the front will be bent manually after milling
05:21 AM XXCoder: cool
05:21 AM XXCoder: what I do recommand is test cut speed etc on scrap
05:21 AM XXCoder: see how well it cuts
05:21 AM mrec: https://snipboard.io/Xx2sU8.jpg
05:21 AM XXCoder: do a checkover for chatter and such
05:22 AM mrec: punching the u-channel was the most difficult part
05:23 AM mrec: https://snipboard.io/BsqwJ1.jpg
05:23 AM mrec: evolution...
05:23 AM XXCoder: nice
05:25 AM mrec: my problem with the 1mm endmill is .. I only have one here
05:25 AM XXCoder: ouch what happened to rest
05:25 AM mrec: never had more, I got that one today
05:25 AM XXCoder: ahh ok
05:25 AM XXCoder: should get few more, those dont last too long compared to bigger ones
06:27 AM mrec: I'm using F42 and 0.3mm step-down so far so good
06:27 AM XXCoder: :)
06:27 AM mrec: originally planned F60, but went down.
06:27 AM mrec: stepover 15%
06:27 AM XXCoder: bit taking it easy
06:27 AM XXCoder: since its sole tool lol
06:27 AM XXCoder: is it making dust or chips
06:28 AM mrec: microchips...
06:28 AM XXCoder: though since your part is small it should be fine
06:28 AM XXCoder: ok
06:28 AM XXCoder: is it like sand?
06:28 AM mrec: no more like small needles
06:29 AM XXCoder: seems good then
06:30 AM XXCoder: if its like dust then its rubbing a lot
06:30 AM XXCoder: which is bad for tool life
06:44 AM mrec: so far so good
06:45 AM mrec: I once read that rubbing is defacto standard when doing micro machining
06:46 AM XXCoder: it was when I machined engraving into iconcel
06:46 AM XXCoder: bastard of a metal, that
06:46 AM XXCoder: wears tool after 30 parts.
06:46 AM mrec: https://youtu.be/RGqJOrXRYQM?t=95
06:46 AM XXCoder: and I had 1000 2000 parts to run
06:47 AM mrec: I only have to make 100
06:47 AM XXCoder: 1/32 ball endmill is smallest i ever used, but not on that engrave job
06:47 AM XXCoder: it was 1/16
06:48 AM mrec: mine is 0.0393701" / 1mm
06:48 AM mrec: the smallest channel is 1.2mm but I want to get into it via trochoidal milling
06:49 AM XXCoder: fun. thats even smaller than 1/16
06:49 AM XXCoder: 0.0625" that one us
06:50 AM XXCoder: 1/32 or 0.03125" is little bit smaller
07:00 AM mrec: I just noticed that this flexible mist coolant end is crap
07:00 AM mrec: it's leaking air all over
07:00 AM mrec: I thought there's a small pipe inside at least
07:00 AM XXCoder: oh that. air dunno, its better for fluids
07:01 AM XXCoder: though yours may be low wuality, I dont remember any air leaking when I used air
07:01 AM XXCoder: pretty rarely but yeah
07:01 AM mrec: I see bubbles coming out from the joints
07:07 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:08 AM JT-Cave: morning
07:09 AM XXCoder: yo
07:12 AM JT-Cave: during the install of debian 11 I see an option to have a separate home partition, is that how you have home on another drive?
07:12 AM XXCoder: yeah
07:13 AM JT-Cave: ok, I have a 1TB drive arriving tomorrow and when I reinstall debian I'll do that
07:13 AM XXCoder: also get backup solution :)
07:14 AM JT-Cave: going to try what flyback suggested on the ssd tomorrow
07:14 AM XXCoder: i hope you recover much of it
07:14 AM JT-Cave: popped another drive in and installed debian 11
07:22 AM Tom_L: 45F almost time to start a fire
07:38 AM satiowadahc[m]: 26F and raining. Good time to hit the highway
07:39 AM XXCoder: icy fun
07:39 AM XXCoder: 52f and rain
07:39 AM XXCoder: today i managed to work for a hour in that tiny sunny window in week long cloudy/rain
08:15 AM satiowadahc[m]: There is something satisfying about a quiet shop and turning on the first mill of the day.
08:16 AM perry_j1987: whats this about misouri gov outlawing "digging around in the HTML" lol
08:16 AM perry_j1987: every day i wake up the world gets a bit weirder it seems
08:21 AM JT-Cave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IBPeRa7U8E
08:24 AM Tom_L: satiowadahc[m], as long as it doesn't go 'boom' right off the bat
08:27 AM Tom_L: so i was told long time ago that my cad cam would only do indexing on a rotary axis
08:28 AM Tom_L: seems that information was incorrect as i've got what it looks like a rotary path to me
08:28 AM Tom_L: in gcode anyway
08:28 AM Tom_L: still can't test
09:11 AM JT-Cave: the one file that I'm screwed with is my keys ...
09:13 AM JT-Cave: ah no I have a copy on the nas
10:12 AM roguish[m]: good morning. well, we got over 8" of rain yesterday. poured all day....
10:13 AM roguish[m]: that's more than we've received in all of 2021 until day before yesterday...............
10:16 AM aaroncnc: i have had enough rain this year i had to replace my old sump as it could not keep up. dang thing drew 13amps and was only a 1/3hp. new one only draws 2.8amps and moves more water
10:35 AM roycroft: we're sure getting plenty
10:35 AM roycroft: la niña is pretty strong this year
10:36 AM roycroft: my gazebo has survived the wind well so far, but we've another day of high winds still
10:36 AM roycroft: not like the bay area though
10:37 AM roycroft: the wind is so strong there the golden gate bridge is whistling, which can be heard from quite a distance
11:08 AM flyback: btw JT-Cave if you are in a hurry to get the system back up and running
11:08 AM flyback: you can raw dump the ssd out to a file or another drive to work on later
11:08 AM flyback: and have the system back now
11:08 AM flyback: then do you data recovery off the raw dump
11:15 AM JT-Shop: I tried R-Linux the free version and got a bunch of files but any I try and open seem to be broken
11:16 AM JT-Shop: I assume dd for the raw dump?
11:37 AM flyback: yeah
11:37 AM flyback: if they seem to broken it's porbably becuse they were overwritten by new data
11:37 AM flyback: :/
11:39 AM JT-Shop: that's kind of what I was thinking... not the end of the world I have a lot backed up to the nas last time I upgraded the os
11:43 AM flyback: I do raw dumps a lot when I need to give the custimer bck their sytem while still working on recoverying files to send to them later
11:44 AM JT-Shop: be back later heading to our favorite winery with wife and daughter
11:45 AM flyback: yeah im heading to work
11:48 AM flyback: just message me with any questions if I forgot about this
12:05 PM roycroft: i ordered some heat sinks for my rpi 4 that i am going to use for my cnc router, and they arrived yesterday
12:06 PM roycroft: five of them came in the set, but i'm not sure what the fifth is for
12:06 PM roycroft: there's one for the cpu, one for the memory, one for the usb chip, and one for the ethernet chip
12:07 PM roycroft: anyway, they are installed, and i can still attach my relay hat to the pi with clearance
12:08 PM roycroft: and my m2.5 tap set is due to arrive today, so i'll be able to modify the din rail mount for the pi and reinstall the pi in the cnc controller
12:08 PM roycroft: possibly this evening - i have a dentist appointment at the end of the day, and it all depends on how i feel after that
12:13 PM roycroft: i'm also ready to broach the timing gears and retainers for my mill, so as soon as the vfd arrives i should be able to have that machine back in service
01:47 PM aaroncnc: do you think there would be an improvement in latency if one was to run without a desktop?
02:09 PM satiowadahc[m]: I've been tempted to make a terminal based UI for some time.. sounds like a time sink
02:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: aaroncnc: run what on what?
02:52 PM t4nk_freenode: 'PwmOut' does not name a type, that's what I encounter when I try to compile Remora-OS5
02:52 PM aaroncnc: having a rpi4 setup such that it never shows the desktop or have it enabled and boot right into my cnc HMI. besides saving a few clicks would not having the desktop running help at all
02:53 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, gettin anywhere with your data recovery?
02:53 PM satiowadahc[m]: aaroncnc can you control everything through hal?
02:54 PM aaroncnc: satiowadahc[m], confused by your question.
02:55 PM satiowadahc[m]: Can you control lcnc from a seperate HMI?
02:56 PM Tom_L: roycroft, gpu
03:00 PM Tom_L: if it has a separate one
03:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: aaroncnc: https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit-hal
03:02 PM satiowadahc[m]: https://pastebin.com/pcrAcbz7
03:03 PM satiowadahc[m]: ^ Simple no UI
03:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: BUT you'll likely get yelled at for coding wrong, receive unsolicited parenting advice, etc etc working with that project
03:05 PM satiowadahc[m]: The shift between machinekit and linuxcnc is crazy on developer side. LCNC is keep formatting exactly as is. MachineKit is follow the latest standard to the T.
03:05 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], were you at the fest when all that went down?
03:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I had the pleasure
03:06 PM Tom_L: i snuck in for a bit toward the end
03:06 PM Tom_L: enough to see the lines drawn in the sand
03:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i forget what days I was there. I left around 1pm to catch my flight back and was stranded at the airport until 7pm
03:08 PM Tom_L: i think i was there on a friday or saturday i don't remember
03:09 PM Tom_L: the hilite was seeing the cincinati
03:10 PM Tom_L: so my kid is finishing up some classes he couldn't take in 20 on manual machines
03:10 PM Tom_L: today they're going on a field trip to see an actual machine shop
03:10 PM Tom_L: just so happens it's his work
03:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Stuart closed his yuotube account, the vids are all gone :(
03:10 PM Tom_L: he wasn't so happy about that :)
03:11 PM Tom_L: yeah i know
03:11 PM Tom_L: the machine went to Ok i think
03:11 PM Tom_L: somewhere, but i don't think it's here anymore
03:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he mentioned the status on the ML
03:12 PM Tom_L: i think you posted that a while back
03:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I think satiowadahc is working on the largest LCNC controlled machine
03:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: is that mill going to run LCNC?
03:13 PM Tom_L: i never caught what it was
03:14 PM satiowadahc[m]: Can confirm its two gantrys running separate lcnc. 114'x26' is the current mill
03:14 PM Tom_L: nice
03:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I talked to a Siemens CNC control salesperson at a show last month. I still don't know what and how they are sold :)
03:15 PM satiowadahc[m]: With a 13" Z
03:15 PM Tom_L: my kid runs a couple zimmermans 300" X
03:15 PM Tom_L: it has siemens control on it/
03:15 PM Tom_L: ?
03:15 PM Tom_L: that's what the zimmermans are
03:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: satiowadahc: what materials will it handle?
03:16 PM satiowadahc[m]: Drywall. It's for installing drywall on steel frames.
03:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i can't order sheetmetal that size :)
03:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I think Siemens sells a complete control with all the IO that you have to spec
03:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you don't do any programming, you just run your programs
03:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and you are tied to their motors and drives
03:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I think he got confused by me asking how I tailor the control to work with a machine
03:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: their website hasn't been much help either
03:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i think you have to have a machine that they already have a set of motors and IO for
03:23 PM Tom_L: was he looking for a siemens control?
03:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I think that the Siemens sales person was trying to sell me their controls but I'm not really sure
03:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I think with heidenhain controls you can program how the controls work so you can tailor them like LCNC
03:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just wondering if Siemens is similar
03:29 PM Tom_L: oh
03:29 PM Tom_L: i think they just recently started teaching those at the vo'tech here but i don't know if they have any simulators or not
03:30 PM Tom_L: they have a room full of haas
03:39 PM roycroft: i needed a bit of round bar that i did not have in stock - i only needed a foot or so
03:39 PM roycroft: i went to jerry's yesterday to get some
03:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have a a few heidenhain controls I should look into either programming or reselling
03:39 PM roycroft: it's a local home improvement center, similar to home depot, but locally-owned and with a much bigger variety of goods
03:40 PM roycroft: they wanted $28 for a 1' piece of 5/8" hot rolled round bar
03:40 PM roycroft: i went to the steel yard today and got a 5' piece of cold rolled round bar for $8
03:41 PM roycroft: i think my rule of only buying metal stock at a home improvement store if it's an emergency needs to change to never buy metal stock at a home improvement store, even if it's an emergency
03:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.haascnc.com/productivity/control.html pretty clear and easy to see what they offer
03:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: home improvement store metal prices are similar to fastener prices, 10x what you pay from industrial suppliers
03:44 PM roycroft: yes, they are
03:44 PM roycroft: and while i don't like the fastner prices, i don't mind paying that as they're generally fairly inexpensive even at the inflated prices
03:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yet paints, drywall and lumber might only be 2x from a distibutor
03:45 PM roycroft: if it's a sunday and i need a bolt and it costs me $2.50 at the big box store vs. $0.40 at an industrial supplier who are not open on sunday, i'll just pay the $2.50 and get the job done
03:45 PM roycroft: if i need 20 of them then it gets to wait until monday
03:46 PM roycroft: and sadly, monday now means thursday, as the local fastener supplier i use just screwed their customers over and i can't purchase much from them any more
03:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: keep an eye on Grainger, they often have full boxes of common fasteners for $1/box on closeout
03:46 PM roycroft: they were losing customers and revenue
03:46 PM roycroft: so they implemented a new policy of commercial sales only
03:46 PM roycroft: that's fine
03:46 PM roycroft: i have an account with them
03:46 PM roycroft: then they implemented a $200 minimum order policy
03:46 PM roycroft: not a surcharge if it's less than that
03:47 PM roycroft: $200 or go away
03:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: understandable
03:47 PM roycroft: so if i can't buy at the big box store, it's mcmaster time
03:47 PM roycroft: the local grainger warehouse closed a while back, but they would not let me buy from them anyway
03:48 PM roycroft: and fastenal are in the business of being jerks, not the business of selling stuff
03:48 PM roycroft: so the two national suppliers who have/had a local presence are not options
03:49 PM roycroft: anyway, the folks at the steel yard are nice, and their pricing is good
03:49 PM roycroft: and they don't discriminate against people who don't spend thousands of dollars a month with them
03:50 PM roycroft: i have some 1-1/4" round bar in stock, and when i saw that price at jerry's yesterday i briefly considered turning that down to 5/8"
03:51 PM roycroft: but that would be so wasteful and take so much time i quickly determined it was a dumb idea
03:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have a welding supplier a few minutes down the road that also has some metal stock
03:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sells it by the pound
03:52 PM roycroft: that's the other nice thing about the local steel yard
03:53 PM roycroft: they sell rems and used stuff by the pound pretty cheap
03:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Alro has an outlet nearby as well
03:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: drops or cut to order
03:53 PM roycroft: you have a lot more options in your part of the world to begin with
03:54 PM roycroft: both by your proximity to a very large city and by being in the rust bet
03:54 PM roycroft: belt
03:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the welding supply has a large shear brake as well
03:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: used to charge me $2 for ea cut, last time was $30 for two snips
03:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: even around here it can be a few days to get supplies and materials
03:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: most of what i want tends to be in California
03:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i think they ran out of midwest warehouses
03:57 PM roycroft: that's the one thing i don't like so much about the local steel yard - they charge $5/cut
03:57 PM roycroft: they don't charge for a cut on 10' lengths, even if they have to cut a 20' stick for that
03:57 PM roycroft: but any other length gets a $5 charge tacked on
03:58 PM roycroft: for steel and aluminium, that is
03:58 PM roycroft: stuff like brass and tool steel come in 3' and 18" lengths with no cut charge
03:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: metal supermarkets near me have no cut charge
03:58 PM roycroft: i'd rather not have to pay cut charges
03:58 PM roycroft: i mean
03:59 PM roycroft: if i buy a 10' length and want it cut into 2' sections, i expect to pay a reasonble cut charge
03:59 PM roycroft: but if i need 5' of, say, angle, i'm not so crazy about paying a cut charge
04:00 PM roycroft: although it does inspire me to build inventory - if i need 1' i'll get a 10' length just to avoid the cut charge
04:00 PM roycroft: and over time, that adds up to some decent inventory, and thus, saved trips to the scrap yard
04:05 PM unterhausen: unfortunately there are no good steel suppliers around here at all
04:06 PM unterhausen: which seems weird, but it's not hard to get it delivered
04:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: other than to control a FFF printer with LCNC, why is there so much interest in getting LCNC to run on an Rpi4 with an STM32 board attached?
04:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Rpi4 is ~$40 and STM32 boards are ~50
04:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and the stepper drivers are for tiny <2.5A motors
04:26 PM Tom_L: no idea
04:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: for controlling a FFF printer with LCNC an Opi is $30 but still needs stepper drives
04:28 PM satiowadahc[m]: I'm running several mills from pi, just due to ease. I can get a mill going with a pi and mesa board in a couple days. Ordering a full computer generally means I need to get some kind of mount made and find floor space for the computer, takes weeks generally.
04:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: aren't ramps boards $10 + each stepper drive module?
04:30 PM Tom_L: are those still avr or arm now?
04:30 PM satiowadahc[m]: Looking at their site looks like AVR
04:30 PM roycroft: my interest on running linuxcnc on a pi is to save space in my tiny shop
04:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 5pcs HR-A4988 Driver Board are $10/set on Aamazon
04:31 PM Tom_L: mega2560
04:31 PM roycroft: i'll be using mesa ethernet boards with mine though
04:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ramps is just the drive carrier board, no micro
04:31 PM Tom_L: mmm
04:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you can use a ramps with an Opi
04:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or some other board to hold the stepper drive modules
04:32 PM roycroft: i got some tall heat sinks for my gecko drives
04:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ramps plugs onto a *duino, well how they were designed anyway
04:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo%C2%AE-Engraver-Printer-Expansion-Arduino/dp/B01D2HL9T8/ref=pd_bxgy_img_1/142-6803219-3714114 $7ea
04:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: seems like Opi $30 + ^^ carrier $7 + $10 for stepper drives would be much lower cost to drive a FFF printer with LCNC
04:35 PM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm/321589853542
04:35 PM roycroft: that's what i got for my drives
04:36 PM enleth: has anyone found a good *non-rpi* ARM-based LCNC-capable SBC yet?
04:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: enleth: something pine64
04:36 PM roycroft: i need four gecko drives for the cnc router, and i'm going to use those heatsinks in pairs, and attach piece of aluminium flat bar to each pair of heat sinks on which i'll mount two gecko drives
04:37 PM roycroft: all with proper thermal paste, of course
04:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the Opi's with 1GB of ram do work with LCNC
04:37 PM enleth: CaptHindsight[m]: right, that one was a thing
04:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they are just made poorly like the Rpi's
04:37 PM roycroft: oh, adafruit just got a batch of 4GB rpi 4s
04:37 PM roycroft: in case anyone needs one
04:38 PM * roycroft got an email a few minutes ago from them
04:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: enleth: comes down to how reliable do you want it to be
04:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: an Rpi with some protection can work for a while
04:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: same for an Opi with a good heat sink, power supply and protection circuitry
04:39 PM enleth: actually, I just realized I know a guy who designs ARM SBCs at a small local company that markets to industrial customers
04:39 PM roycroft: someone here, i think pcw, was just saying they've had an rpi4 running linuxcnc that has been up and running for over a year
04:39 PM roycroft: that seems reasonably reliable
04:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have one running for 54 weeks now, an Rpi4
04:39 PM roycroft: maybe it was you who said it then
04:39 PM enleth: roycroft: I don't doubt it, but it's still one of the last things I'd like to put in charge of several kilowatts worth of servos moving hundreds of kilograms of cast iron
04:40 PM roycroft: i just put a bunch of heat sinks on my rpi4
04:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: BUT it's on the bench and not used in an enclosure in working condictions
04:40 PM roycroft: i'll have good air circulation in mine when it's in the cabinet
04:40 PM roycroft: and i'll be monitoring the cpu and gpu temperatures
04:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I could kill it pretty easily this time of year while wearing a wool sweater
04:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: an RPI4 plugged into a Mesa card is protected from ESD and transients on the IO
04:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: one reason the Rpi's and Opis are so low cost is that no protection is built onto the boards
04:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: even the required heat sinks are extra
04:43 PM roycroft: right
04:43 PM roycroft: so add protection
04:43 PM roycroft: i got a relay hat that has optoisolators
04:44 PM roycroft: i'm using a mesa ethernet board
04:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: by the time you add protection, headers, an FPGA you are at Mesa
04:44 PM roycroft: i got the heat sinks
04:44 PM roycroft: i hope it works out
04:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so I think all these low budget FFF printer apps with Rpi's and similar are just not using any IO protection
04:45 PM roycroft: if not i'll have to use a pc, but i don't want to sacrifice the space for that, so i'm willing to give the rpi a go to see how it does
04:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: granted a tiny nema17 Cartesian system on a desk is not as likely to see the same noise and spikes as a Haas on the shop floor
04:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or a plasma cutter
04:48 PM roycroft: the way i'm designing my system, if the rpi does not work out all i have to do is add an ethernet jack to the control box and plug in a laptop or pc, and i should be good to go
04:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 2gb Rpi4 is $35 + heat sink/enclosure + power supply
04:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so you are $50-60
04:49 PM roycroft: well, i'll have to deal with signals for the light tree, but that's minor, and is not a show-stopper
04:50 PM roycroft: i'm using a 4GB pi that cost me $60, added a din-mount plate fo $14, a set of heat sinks for <$5, and i'm using a 5v power supply that i already had purchased
04:50 PM roycroft: so ~$80 in total
04:50 PM roycroft: and then the relay hat, but i'd need something like that for a pc anyway
04:51 PM roycroft: and there's $10 for a microsd card on top of that
04:51 PM Tom_L: enleth, you'd rather trust other grains of sand?
04:51 PM roycroft: which is way cheaper than an ssd or hard drive
04:52 PM Tom_L: but you can't put 2Tb on a sd card
04:52 PM Tom_L: and access time is slower
04:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 2TB external USB drive $60ea
04:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'm just following the interest in the Rpi4 and Opi LCNC projects on the forums
04:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: STM32's are working now over SPI bus from either of the PI's, I saw Ethernet with STM32 is working on a some older forums
04:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the Opi can use the integrated micro for fast stepping but the kernels and u-boot have issues
04:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Rpi, Opi or PC over Ethernet to STM32's should allow one to build motors with Ethernet right into the motors along with the drive
05:01 PM enleth: Tom_L: well, I'm talking to the guy who writes system management firmware for their SBCs right now
05:01 PM enleth: Tom_L: I'd rather trust those if he says they won't *ever* hijack a core no matter what if it's marked as realtime-critical
05:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ-HnrusGJo
05:02 PM enleth: or throttle, if throttling is disabled in system management
05:02 PM enleth: the thing will happily burn down if no adequate cooling is provided in that mode, but it'll never affect latency until then
05:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the Rpi's still have mystery firmware
05:03 PM enleth: exactly
05:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they seem to speed change based on temp no matter what your firmware settings
05:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: U-boot on the Opi's can lock the cores, no matter what
05:03 PM flyback: so JT-Cave any progress?
05:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: x86 also suffers from mystery firmware
05:04 PM roycroft: perhaps it's best not to do the actual real-time stuff on a rpi
05:04 PM roycroft: task that stuff to a mesa or similar board
05:04 PM flyback: use a rpico :P
05:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes, Remora or Mesa
05:06 PM flyback: pico has a really good dma and pio engine
05:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but eh Opi's can handle real time with no external hardware except for protection and isolation
05:07 PM flyback: but they can't run normal linux
05:07 PM flyback: so would be some kind of rtos
05:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://wiki.friendlyarm.com/wiki/index.php/Building_U-boot_and_Linux_for_H5/H3/H2%2B
05:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://linux-sunxi.org/H3_Manual_build_howto
05:09 PM * flyback has a orange pi for a sdr project
05:09 PM flyback: H3 I believe
05:09 PM flyback: yep h3
05:11 PM JT-Cave: yo
05:13 PM roycroft: pumpkin?
05:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: enleth: which processor is he working with for the firmware?
05:15 PM JT-Cave: flyback, just got back from Commerce Mo winery
05:16 PM flyback: ah
05:18 PM enleth: CaptHindsight[m]: NXP QorlQ, Microchip Cortex A5 and Microchip PolarFire
05:18 PM enleth: something based on i.MX9 might be coming as soon as i.MX9 is out
05:19 PM JT-Cave: can I dd if=sdc of=sda/recovery ...
05:19 PM enleth: and that might be a good fit for LCNC
05:19 PM enleth: (their current designs have no GPU)
05:19 PM Tom_L: flyback is a recovery genius
05:19 PM Tom_L: :)
05:19 PM * Tom_L slaps flyback for fun
05:20 PM flyback: uh
05:20 PM JT-Cave: I have a 2TB drive and I want to dd the 250GB drive to a directory on that drive, is that possible
05:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: T4240 64-bit e6500 12 cores, 24 threads 1.5-1.8 35.7W 1932-pin PBGA
05:20 PM flyback: sda/recovery?
05:20 PM JT-Cave: yes
05:20 PM flyback: is sda the name of a folder and not a device?
05:20 PM JT-Cave: sda is the 2TB drive
05:21 PM JT-Cave: lsblk
05:21 PM JT-Cave: NAME MAJ:MIN RM SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT
05:21 PM JT-Cave: sda 8:0 0 1.8T 0 disk
05:21 PM JT-Cave: └─sda1 8:1 0 1.8T 0 part
05:21 PM flyback: if you are asking if the dump can be a file somewhere, they yes
05:21 PM flyback: then yes
05:21 PM flyback: shouldn't it be if=/dev/sdc
05:22 PM flyback: since it's a raw drive image
05:22 PM flyback: of=can be a file somewhere
05:22 PM JT-Cave: aye, forgot the dev
05:22 PM flyback: of=/mnt/nfs/bigfile whatever
05:23 PM flyback: 18<20JT-Cave18> I have a 2TB drive and I want to dd the 250GB drive to a directory on that drive, is that possible
05:23 PM flyback: yes
05:23 PM flyback: then of=/directorymountpoint and folder of that drive
05:24 PM flyback: name it whatever.img
05:24 PM JT-Cave: actually it's listed as a device called data
05:24 PM flyback: if your sda1 is mounted on /mnt/2tb then
05:25 PM flyback: dd if=/dev/sdc of=/mnt/2tb/somefolder/filename.img
05:25 PM flyback: add status=progress to the end of your dd line to monitor progress
05:26 PM flyback: ugh
05:26 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:26 PM flyback: 18<20JT-Cave18> actually it's listed as a device called data
05:26 PM flyback: 20<flyback>30 if your sda1 is mounted on /mnt/2tb then
05:26 PM flyback: 20<flyback>30 dd if=/dev/sdc of=/mnt/2tb/somefolder/filename.img
05:26 PM flyback: 20<flyback>30 add status=progress to the end of your dd line to monitor progress
05:26 PM Tom_L: there are logs
05:26 PM flyback: ah
05:27 PM flyback: by dumping the drive out to a file, you are a) freezing the bits in time b) freeing up the ssd for reuse now
05:28 PM flyback: r-studio and several other recovery sw's can use dd images
05:30 PM flyback: in fact you can dump out each member of a raid array and then use the images to build the virtual raid
05:30 PM enleth: it's also possible to mount individual partition out of a full disk image, several ways to do it, such as https://askubuntu.com/questions/69363/mount-single-partition-from-image-of-entire-disk-device
05:31 PM enleth: (there's a few elegant ones in further responses)
08:15 PM solarwind: So I can't find the "welding" tips for victor torches for use with oxy propane
08:15 PM solarwind: I intend to just use them for brazing
08:15 PM solarwind: Is it ok to use the regular acetylene "welding" nozzles with oxy propane?
08:16 PM solarwind: Assuming I have the right hoses and everything else
08:18 PM solarwind: Acetylene is quite expensive here, $450 for the largest cylinder size, which is about 300(?) ft^3
08:19 PM solarwind: But propane is pretty cheap, about $75 for a 100 lb tank refill
08:30 PM flyback: yeah but major differences in burn temp
08:42 PM enleth: solarwind: should be safe but might produce an unstable flame that blows out easily
08:43 PM enleth: solarwind: propane flame starts quite a ways from the tip, so propane tips are recessed
08:43 PM enleth: acetylene tips are flush
08:46 PM enleth: solarwind: still better than the reverse, where an acetylene flame will burn off a propane tip because the flame starts within the tip recess, not in front of it
08:46 PM roycroft: i learned a lesson about broaching today: when broaching thin objects, do it before they are thin
08:47 PM * roycroft gets to remake a couple collars now, because the broach could only engage one tooth in the collars, and decided to tilt and blow out the edge
08:47 PM enleth: roycroft: ah yes, the moment when conceptual differences between a broachinch set and a very small bending die set turn out to not matter very much to physics
08:47 PM enleth: *broaching
08:48 PM roycroft: it's like sawcutting - you want three teeth engaged in the part at all times for best results
08:48 PM roycroft: perhaps two with a broach
08:49 PM roycroft: oh well, it won't take much time to remake the parts, and i made them out of some scrap stock of which i still have plenty
08:49 PM enleth: you can broach very thin stuff, but it needs to be clamped between guide bushings of sorts
08:49 PM enleth: not a standard accessory
08:50 PM roycroft: yeah, i thought of ways i could ensure that the broach cutter stays upright
08:50 PM roycroft: of the ideas i've had so far, remaking the parts and broaching them before they are cut to length seems the easiest
08:50 PM enleth: the operation is kinda more like weird die punching that way
08:50 PM roycroft: especially since i have to remake them anyway
08:51 PM roycroft: and i'd actually like to make the parts even thinner than they were, so this is an opportunity to make that modification
08:55 PM Tom_L: how are they attached to the shaft?
08:55 PM Tom_L: grub screws or some other method?
08:56 PM Tom_L: if you make them too thin that could also cause a blowout
08:57 PM Tom_L: so my driver should arrive tomorrow
09:04 PM roycroft: yeah, grub screws
09:05 PM Tom_L: just be aware of that
09:05 PM roycroft: and by thin, in this case i mean axial height
09:05 PM roycroft: not radial
09:05 PM Tom_L: ok
09:06 PM Tom_L: still if there is undue load it could do the same thing
09:06 PM roycroft: the way i made them, i only have a couple mm of adjustment along the shaft, which means i have to make my motor mounts almost perfect in length
09:06 PM roycroft: they were 3/8" thick
09:06 PM roycroft: i'm thinking 5/16"
09:06 PM roycroft: so not wafa thin
09:07 PM Tom_L: one of my encoder pulleys might be a little thin but there is no load on it
09:08 PM Tom_L: it gets abused though
09:08 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Spindle/Pulley2.jpg
09:08 PM Tom_L: i had no spare room on the shaft
09:09 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Spindle/Pulley1.jpg
09:09 PM Tom_L: i had to pocket the bottom one to get that much
09:09 PM roycroft: the pulley on the motor shaft also has a hub which is not needed
09:10 PM roycroft: so i could turn part or all of that off to make it more adjustable
09:10 PM roycroft: but yeah, really tight quarters there
09:11 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Spindle/Encoder1.jpg
09:11 PM roycroft: and i really did not want to go down to a 12mm belt
09:11 PM Tom_L: it all worked out
09:11 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Spindle/Belt_Guard2.jpg
09:11 PM roycroft: almost tripling the horsepower and using a smaller belt just doesn't make much sense to me
09:11 PM Tom_L: i made a guard for it but i don't like it
09:12 PM Tom_L: chips don't really get that far up
09:12 PM Tom_L: and i'm not so stupid that i'd get caught in it
09:12 PM roycroft: my mill already has a cover that goes over the transmission/spindle side
09:12 PM roycroft: the belt will not be exposed at all
09:13 PM flyback: JT-Cave, how did the imaging go?
09:13 PM Tom_L: he's probably tucked in bed
09:13 PM flyback: ok
09:14 PM Tom_L: catch him at 5am
09:14 PM Tom_L: cst
09:14 PM flyback: wel if he did the dd image right. he has exactely the same bits as the ssd so he can have his ssd now
09:14 PM roycroft: cdt, for now
09:14 PM flyback: also means he can try several recovery programs over time
09:14 PM flyback: to see which works best
09:14 PM roycroft: probably, flyback
09:15 PM flyback: making a raw dump is great when you need the orgional source back in production in a hurry
09:15 PM roycroft: i don't know what happened, but ssds do an awful lot of sector remapping, because they are not very reliable
09:16 PM flyback: hell i've even converted the existing win10 install into a vm to allow me to immediately start rebuildig th ebox while being able to bootup the old install to extract passwords etc
09:16 PM roycroft: the error correction is very good, and most remapping is done on writes, not reads
09:16 PM flyback: roycroft, that won't matter
09:16 PM flyback: he has a logical recovery
09:16 PM flyback: the ssd is fine
09:16 PM roycroft: but a dd image of an ssd does is not always the same as the original
09:16 PM flyback: he over write the drive with a new install
09:16 PM Tom_L: you can monitor that on the ssd
09:16 PM flyback: yes it will be roycroft in this case
09:17 PM roycroft: again, i don't know what he did or what his problem is
09:17 PM flyback: he installed a new os to the wrong drive
09:17 PM Tom_L: lost the boot sector
09:17 PM roycroft: i was pretty busy today, and did notice that he's trying to recover some data
09:17 PM roycroft: aah
09:17 PM Tom_L: or boot partition
09:18 PM Tom_L: then he probably wrote something on part of it
09:22 PM flyback: well he over wrote a data drive
09:22 PM roycroft: well that's easy to deal with
09:23 PM roycroft: xfsrestore (8) - XFS filesystem incremental restore utility
09:23 PM roycroft: :)
09:23 PM flyback: if he used xfs
09:23 PM roycroft: or ufs
09:23 PM * flyback is moving everything to btrfs
09:23 PM flyback: BTRFS OWNS YOUR "CANUCK"
09:23 PM * flyback dropkicks roycroft
09:23 PM roycroft: i think ext[2-4] has a restore facility as well
09:24 PM roycroft: i happen to like xfs
09:25 PM flyback: it's ok
09:25 PM roycroft: i've been using dump/restore for over 40 years now
09:25 PM flyback: but it doesn't have error checking on file contents
09:25 PM roycroft: my backup software works very well with dump/restore
09:25 PM flyback: and doesn't have intergrated raid
09:25 PM roycroft: so i'm fine with that
09:25 PM roycroft: i store most of my data on a nas
09:25 PM roycroft: and the filesystem there is zfs
09:26 PM flyback: I have a freenas also
09:26 PM flyback: llittle hp microserver
09:26 PM skunkworks: still running proxmox in production.. It has failed over a few times now without anyone knowing...
09:26 PM roycroft: but what's great in this world is that there are almost always choices
09:26 PM roycroft: and each of us can use what works best for our situation
09:27 PM roycroft: i only have a couple vms left on vmware esxi
09:27 PM roycroft: everything else is on proxmox pve
09:27 PM roycroft: on the servers, that is
09:27 PM roycroft: on my macs i use vmware fusion
09:28 PM skunkworks: it has been pretty nice... have had a few ssd's fail and no issues replacing/
09:28 PM roycroft: yeah, proxmox is pretty drama-free
09:28 PM roycroft: if a drive fails i get an email and i mosey over to the data center when i have a chance
09:28 PM skunkworks: yep.
09:29 PM skunkworks: There is a replication that fails every so often when the vm is doing its own sql backup - other than that..
09:29 PM flyback: btrs like zfs does integrity on data
09:29 PM skunkworks: (I get an email when that happens too)
09:29 PM flyback: but for vm's you might be better off with xfs
09:29 PM flyback: because cow aren't great for vm's
09:30 PM roycroft: for my vms, the underlying storage is zfs for the virtual disks
09:30 PM roycroft: and xfs is what i use for the virtual filesystems
09:30 PM skunkworks: yes. zfs here too..
09:30 PM skunkworks: then replication works between servers.
09:30 PM flyback: I think in zfs you can map a file non-cow
09:30 PM flyback: for things like vm's
09:33 PM solarwind: enleth thanks, did not know that about the tips
09:33 PM solarwind: So I should be fine with testing out propane on my acetylene tips
09:37 PM solarwind: flyback for heating, propane may actually be far more efficient. It produces more energy for volume of gas and it releases it in its secondary flame
09:38 PM solarwind: That might actually be good for brazing too. I don't want to burn the zinc out of the brazing rod like I tend to do sometimes with oxy acetylene
09:38 PM flyback: oh I thought acty was like 5x hotter
09:38 PM solarwind: Flame temperature and energy are two different things
09:39 PM solarwind: Acetylene is indeed a few hundred degrees hotter and it releases ~40% of that heat in the primary sharp tip cone
09:39 PM solarwind: It also has a reducing zone which is needed for welding steel
09:39 PM solarwind: Propane and other fuels release most of the heat in the secondary flame cone. The flame temperature is lower too, but the total energy released is higher
09:40 PM solarwind: Also propane has no reducing zone in the flame, so can't weld with it (properly)
09:40 PM solarwind: Doesn't matter for brazing since you need flux anyway
09:41 PM enleth: solarwind: well, you should be safe insofar as "using high-power high-temperature gas equipment with pure oxygen supply in a way not intended and indicated by the manufacturer" can ever be considered "safe"
09:41 PM solarwind: Yeah I know what you mean
09:41 PM solarwind: They don't seem to make specific single hole nozzles for other fuels
09:41 PM solarwind: They make heating tips for propane specifically though
09:42 PM solarwind: Either way, I have two sets of flashback arrestors, proper hoses and all that
09:42 PM flyback: nice
09:43 PM enleth: I don't trust an oxygen tank any further than I can throw it and this extends to anything connected to it, so I tend to throw away any gas equipment I deem suspect, buy it new and use it only as indicated
09:43 PM flyback: *whew* $24 for a set of halloween videos for my projector
09:43 PM flyback: oh well
09:43 PM enleth: seeing as I'm not a superhuman, I can't throw it any distance
09:43 PM flyback: pus cost of a cheap shower curtain
09:43 PM enleth: and that's exactly how much I trust it
09:43 PM flyback: next year I am going projection mapping :P
09:43 PM solarwind: I see it more like a motorcycle
09:43 PM solarwind: If you don't trust it, don't ride it
09:43 PM flyback: have you guys seen this shit
09:43 PM solarwind: If you're riding it, trust it
09:44 PM solarwind: By why specifically the oxygen?
09:44 PM solarwind: The acetylene is more dangerous
09:44 PM enleth: solarwind: can't smell it, the concept of "not flammable" becomes moot when there's too much of it
09:44 PM solarwind: I'm going to buy a few oxygen concentrators whenever I see one being sold for a low price and build my own oxygen supply.
09:44 PM flyback: enleth, solarwind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FJBfBTOOsQ
09:45 PM solarwind: lol nice
09:45 PM flyback: done with a normal projector and some special software to map the house and render the video the right shape
09:45 PM enleth: solarwind: when the acetylene tank has a leak, I'm facing an acetylene fire and possible decomposition; when an oxygen tank has a leak, I'm facing an *EVERYTHING* fire
09:46 PM solarwind: I mean it's pretty hard to hurt those tanks
09:46 PM enleth: also, I guess there's two kinds of "trust"
09:46 PM solarwind: I'm going to build this though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zN6aUKlhZI
09:46 PM flyback: bbl
09:47 PM enleth: sure, I "trust" the equipment - *if* it's not damaged, well maintained and used properly - to work as intended
09:47 PM solarwind: Yeah
09:47 PM enleth: but I don't ever consider it something I can "trust" as in lower my guard
09:47 PM solarwind: Well yeah
09:47 PM solarwind: That applies to all machinery that can kill you
09:47 PM enleth: and for me, this includes any misuse or unintended use
09:48 PM enleth: I've done weird things with various equipment
09:48 PM solarwind: My torch and flashback arrestors are designed for all fuel gasses and my hose is far away from the tank
09:48 PM enleth: but not in this case, no thanks
09:51 PM enleth: most of my attitude here comes from the fact that you can't ever "turn it off" when it comes to chemical energy, only contain it
09:52 PM solarwind: You can render it inert
09:52 PM solarwind: "deactivate" it that is
09:52 PM solarwind: if you have an oxygen leak, spray nearby items with a fire extinguisher and ventilate the area
09:52 PM solarwind: and wait for the tank to empty, that's all
09:54 PM enleth: two other classes of dangerous systems I work with all the time are electrical and mechanical and in both cases, I trust them way more as in their case, a huge majority of failues first and foremost render them unable to acquire more energy
09:55 PM enleth: but chemical energy systems are all about containment and all failures are containment failures
09:55 PM solarwind: At the end of the day, just have to remember that it's ok, because you're definitely going to die
09:55 PM solarwind: Like, I'm 100% sure of that
09:57 PM enleth: solarwind: "in a fire" is not the way I'd prefer it
10:04 PM flyback: <enleth> most of my attitude here comes from the fact that you can't ever "turn it off" when it comes to chemical energy, only contain it
10:04 PM flyback: "oh lets build my own lithium ion charger for a first electronic project"
10:05 PM flyback: and your line is exactely why I start screaming and biting peope on irc who ask about building one
10:05 PM solarwind: LOL
10:05 PM solarwind: flyback you know how I am on the electronics channel to people like that
10:05 PM flyback: cause they don't reazlie how fucked up a lithium fire is
10:05 PM flyback: YOU AIN'T GOING TO STOP IT ONCE IT GETS GOING
10:06 PM flyback: HELL even telsa is switching to lifepo
10:07 PM flyback: probably for durability as much as safety
10:07 PM solarwind: durability
10:07 PM solarwind: I've been saying it forever that LiFePO4 is the way to go
10:07 PM flyback: well their density is about 20% lower but they won't shed any for a very long time
10:08 PM flyback: vs ion and poly that shed pretty quick
10:08 PM solarwind: Yeah the volumetric and gravimetric energy density is lower, but they're better in every way
10:09 PM flyback: I rather eat the runtime loss up front and have a lot cycle life 9/10 times
10:10 PM flyback: lot/long
10:11 PM enleth: flyback: that's still chemical storage, if you want to get technical
10:12 PM flyback: I didn't say it wasn;t
10:12 PM enleth: ah, ok
10:13 PM enleth: well then, yes, it doesn't matter if it comes out as gas or electrons, if it's stored chemically, you can't "turn it off"
10:13 PM flyback: yep
10:14 PM enleth: fun fact: we've had a pretty big li-po battery pack swell up almost to the point of bursting and tried to depressurize it safely
10:15 PM flyback: hopefully in a flower pot
10:15 PM enleth: it was "safe" as in, when it did go off it was outside, on concrete, far from anything else
10:15 PM enleth: but it did go off
10:15 PM flyback: or some brick lined enclosure
10:15 PM flyback: here you go
10:16 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdDi1haA71Q
10:16 PM enleth: hope was, the nail on the end of the prod stick would only penetrate the outer layer, but it shorted immediately anyway
10:16 PM Kevin`: yeah, nail through a few plates is a good recipe for excitement
10:16 PM enleth: the thing burned out without hurting anyone, but the smell lingered for two days and we had a fire brigade show up to check what's up with the smoke and smell
10:18 PM enleth: the guys were very pleasant to talk to, as soon as they made sure no one was in danger they eased up, chatted for a while and admitted that they don't even get any training on what to do with lithium-based battery fires
10:18 PM enleth: but it was still a nasty mess
10:18 PM enleth: Kevin`: unfortunately, there just isn't much you can do about a lipo pack that's swollen up this much
10:19 PM Kevin`: if the cell connections aren't broken you can discharge it first (also outside)
10:19 PM enleth: Kevin`: you can wait, or try to puncture it very gently in hopes that it'll just gas off without shorting and setting itself ablaze
10:19 PM enleth: they were
10:20 PM Tom_L: they better get training with all the electric cars coming out
10:20 PM enleth: by the way, I'm amazed that battery recycling bin fires aren't a common thing
10:20 PM enleth: you know, the bins at shopping malls and electronic stores where you dispose of your dead batteries
10:21 PM enleth: people chuck dead-ish rechargeable batteries in there too
10:21 PM Kevin`: yeah, I doubt many people make batteries inert before disposing of them
10:21 PM Tom_L: surprised someone hasn't tried to set them off
10:21 PM enleth: so there's a bunch of batteries rubbing conductive surfaces over contacts of other batteries
10:22 PM Tom_L: i doubt many ppl know you need to
10:22 PM enleth: and yet, those things don't go up in flames every week
10:22 PM roycroft: i recycle batteries at a local battery store
10:22 PM roycroft: i go in and set them down on the counter
10:22 PM roycroft: those bins at best buy and the like always seemed rather sketchy to me
10:23 PM Tom_L: chuck em in the disposal and let em clean out yer drains
10:23 PM enleth: Tom_L: you know this actually has like half ounce of something resembling logic in it?
10:23 PM solarwind: Hmm looks like cutting tips can also be used for brazing
10:24 PM Tom_L: they got warnings on everything else
10:24 PM flyback: QAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
10:24 PM flyback: I D
10:24 PM flyback: DID
10:24 PM flyback: NOT
10:24 PM Tom_L: don't use a hairdryer in the shower... etc
10:24 PM flyback: NEED
10:24 PM flyback: TO
10:24 PM enleth: Tom_L: drain cleaners are pure sodium, batteries contain lithium, that's like almost the same thing, right?
10:24 PM flyback: KNOW THAT
10:24 PM flyback: UGH
10:24 PM flyback: rich rebuilds "I make $1500/month wanking into a cup"
10:25 PM enleth: Tom_L: how come we haven't heard of any smartass coming to this conclusion and doing that?
10:25 PM Tom_L: he probably forgot to take his hand out
10:26 PM enleth: I'm trying to imagine the headline now
10:26 PM enleth: it starts with "Florida man ..."
10:26 PM Tom_L: could think of any number of states for a dumbass headliner
10:27 PM enleth: supposedly, the "Florida man" is overrepresented among idiot shenanigans headlines
10:27 PM enleth: flyback: but you did, and then you decided that you don't want to suffer alone?
10:28 PM Tom_L: florida man lives matter too?