#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 19 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:03 AM Deejay: moin
05:06 AM JT-Cave: morning
07:28 AM Tom_L: morning
07:30 AM JT-Cave: building 64 bit on the rpi4
07:31 AM Tom_L: nice
07:34 AM Tom_L: rewired a little in the cabinet and built a new bitfile for the A axis
07:34 AM JT-Cave: I saw that
07:35 AM Tom_L: been so long it took a couple tries :)
07:36 AM JT-Cave: I looked at doing that once or twice but didn't get very far
07:37 AM Tom_L: it's not difficult as long as you have the function you want
07:37 AM Tom_L: keep 32 entries in the top array fill them with gpio if needed
07:38 AM Tom_L: sserial is a little tricky
07:38 AM Tom_L: one instance will support i think 4 or 8 channels
07:38 AM JT-Cave: I can't even remember what program you use lol
07:39 AM Tom_L: xilinx webpack 14.7 (the last one available)
07:39 AM Tom_L: it's in archives now
07:39 AM Tom_L: huge download
07:39 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx14_install_index.php
07:43 AM JT-Cave: I don't think I'll finish downloading dependencies before 8
07:44 AM JT-Cave: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/39779-rpi4-raspbian-64-bit-linuxcnc-gmoccapy-problem?start=0
07:47 AM JT-Cave: hmm I made it...
07:49 AM Tom_L: heh
07:53 AM JT-Cave: pretty good instructions for modifying a bit file
07:56 AM Tom_L: it's on the wiki too
07:57 AM JT-Cave: I'm going to add a sample configuration to the rpi tool that uses what i/o is selected kinda like the parallel port tester I did years ago
08:01 AM Tom_L: that would be helpful
08:01 AM Tom_L: alot of lower end cnc would be attracted to the rpi and their experience level is probably around the same level
08:02 AM JT-Cave: lol
09:27 AM JT-Shop: roycroft, UPS or USPS?
10:54 AM Rhine_Labs: Schematics Of Control Boards Etc.
12:13 PM Loetmichel: Hey, any jet engine knowing folks here=? I Live right under the main appoach vector of german Frankfurt airport. close enough that i sometimes feel i can pet the 747s and airbus's on the belly. Every now and then i hear one of the landing big jets make a loud "MooooooUUUUUuu" sound, maybe 1 or two seconds long. Anyone any idea what causes that?
12:20 PM Tom_L: jt pony express might be quicker
12:22 PM Tom_L: Loetmichel, possibly breaking a bit?
12:22 PM Tom_L: braking
12:22 PM Tom_L: we don't need em to break
12:23 PM Tom_L: flaps etc would be deploying then most likely
12:23 PM Loetmichel: breaking would be bad indeed
12:23 PM Loetmichel: hmm, do flaps make a sound like a big organ pipe when deployed? and only for a very short time?
12:24 PM Tom_L: not that i'm aware of but during that time i'm sure they're also adjusting the engine speeds
12:25 PM Tom_L: i doubt they would be applying air brakes during flight but certainly after they touch down
12:28 PM Loetmichel: i am still about 10km from FFM airport
12:29 PM Loetmichel: the planes here are still clearly in the air and not touched down. At least i hope so ;)
12:33 PM Tom_L: just approach adjustments most likely
12:36 PM Loetmichel: yeah, i am just curious what creates that "big whirly tube" sound and why only sometimes.
12:38 PM enleth: at that point they're still stabilizing the approach, your house might be close to the point where some aircraft, at some airlines, tend to do a glide slope correction that requires a momentary thrust increase
12:39 PM enleth: depending on autopilot settings, type of approach and crew decisions
12:44 PM Loetmichel: probably. But should a throttle adjustment make "hooting" noises?
12:48 PM Tom_L: probably
12:48 PM Tom_L: i know what you're talking about
12:51 PM Tom_L: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/23701/what-causes-descending-aircraft-to-make-a-noise-like-a-giant-blown-bottle
12:52 PM roycroft: hello, folks
12:53 PM Loetmichel: thanks Tom_L!
12:53 PM Tom_L: roycroft, did you note jt's shipping question
12:53 PM roycroft: is there a good reason that such an old preempt-rt kernel is being used for linuxcnc?
12:53 PM roycroft: tom_l: he emailed me and i responded
12:53 PM roycroft: thanks, though
01:08 PM unterhaus: local school system raised the daily pay for substitutes to $105
01:08 PM unterhaus: seems inadequate
01:08 PM unterhaus: they are spoiled because of all the spouses of grad students/professors
01:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qacPndhY5PA
01:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: because debian?
01:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: build a newer one
01:28 PM Loetmichel: unterhaus: thats about $2000 a month. Sounds like enough to not die but not enough to live if we talking USA living standards.
01:30 PM unterhaus: they pay $25 a day more to retired teachers
01:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Loetmichel: closer to $1600/mo after taxes
01:31 PM unterhaus: they pay more once you have taught 20 days cumulative
01:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: well sorting this out would require the use of math and stuff, so it's hopeless
01:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: taxes vs salaries in public schools
01:33 PM unterhaus: I'm pretty sure I would have trouble talking for 6 hours a day
01:33 PM unterhaus: I used to only have to talk for 3 hours a day twice a week and it just about wore me out
01:34 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight[m]: yeah, people here confuse "cash flow" and "disposable income" here, too. Sadly.
01:34 PM Loetmichel: -here
01:39 PM roycroft: not to mention getting death threats because your forcing children to wear masks in the classroom
01:39 PM JT-Shop: emails must be going via the USPS I've not received any
01:39 PM roycroft: teaching has always been a difficult profession in this country
01:40 PM roycroft: i did send it at 8:42 this morning pdt
01:40 PM roycroft: and it did not bounce
01:40 PM roycroft: at any rate, ups is fine
01:40 PM JT-Shop: ok
01:40 PM roycroft: it's cheaper and it will be faster
01:40 PM JT-Shop: yup
01:40 PM roycroft: "3 day priority mail" means 10+ days now
01:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: you take attendance 6 times a day, and pass kids for showing up, how hard is that?
01:42 PM roycroft: i realised that our president has a lot of pressing matters to deal with, but he really needs to get some nominees confirmed to the usps board of governors, so that dejoy can be told to take a hike
01:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: can't we just pretend that it's all good?
01:47 PM roycroft: i prefer reality to fantasyland
01:47 PM roycroft: but sure, if that's what works for you :)
01:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i find the experiment interesting
01:47 PM roycroft: but back to my on-topic earlier question:
01:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: half the country just pretends
01:48 PM roycroft: is there a good reason that linuxcnc folks use the 4.19 preempt kernel?
01:48 PM Tom_L: volunteers haven't worked out a new one?
01:49 PM roycroft: i'm working with some folks who have a nice rpi build tool that may make a linuxcnc install on a pi a lot easier to maintain, but their tool does not work with a kernel that old
01:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: LTS
01:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and deban
01:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just build on x86
01:50 PM roycroft: so if i get a 5.10 or 5.15 preempt kernel built and working, linuxcnc will probably be fine with that?
01:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: up to whomever post the debs
01:50 PM Tom_L: depends if you share or not :)
01:51 PM Tom_L: probably seb or jepler
01:51 PM roycroft: my intent is to share, if i come up with something worth sharing
01:51 PM Tom_L: you could mention it in the devel channel
01:51 PM roycroft: Linux rpi4-5 5.10.73-rt54-rpi4-v8 #1 SMP PREEMPT_RT
01:51 PM roycroft: +Tue Oct 19 14:16:48 EDT 2021 aarch64
01:51 PM roycroft: Linux rpi4-5 5.10.73-rt54-rpi4-v8 #1 SMP PREEMPT_RT
01:51 PM roycroft: +Tue Oct 19 14:16:48 EDT 2021 aarch64
01:51 PM roycroft: and one of the folks i'm working with just built a kernel for a pi
01:52 PM pcw-home: My experience is that the 4.19 kernel have better latency than 5.x
01:52 PM pcw-home: (on x86 at least )
01:53 PM roycroft: i've heard from some folks that a 64 bit kernel has less latency in their experience than a 32 bit kernel, all other factors being equal
01:53 PM Tom_L: pcw-home, do you happen to know how much current a spartin6 pin can sink?
01:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: see what works for you, post the config
01:53 PM roycroft: well i have a 4.19 preempt kernel now
01:54 PM roycroft: i can do a latency test on it, and then install a 5.10 preempt kernel on the same pi and do the same test
01:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unfortunately you also will have differences in latency test results based on your firmware settings
01:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and broadcom will never cooperate and use u-boot
01:57 PM pcw-home: Tom_L: 24 mA if setup that way in the .ucf file
01:57 PM Tom_L: is there something i need to do for that?
01:57 PM Tom_L: it seems to be working driving an opto but i wanted to check to be sure
01:58 PM pcw-home: On Mesa cards the GPIO pins are all set for 24 mA drive
01:58 PM Tom_L: thanks
01:58 PM Tom_L: they don't source near as much do they?
01:59 PM pcw-home: They do, but only to about +2.5V
01:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: assuming that you have an adequate power supply and heatsink, we don't know what the firmware does when the cores get hot even if you force the core clocks to some max speed
01:59 PM pcw-home: (due to the increasing resistance of the bus switches)
02:01 PM pcw-home: as the voltage gets closer the the switch cutoff at about 3.2V
02:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: in some instances the power management still kicks in and throttles down the core clocks
02:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: GPU clock speed also has an effect on core temp
02:02 PM roycroft: i have a 10a power supply that only powers the pi and the 7i96
02:02 PM roycroft: no heat sink on the pi, though, and it will be wearing a hat, so it would be hard to install one
02:03 PM roycroft: but i'll be moving plenty of air over the pi
02:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if the Rpi devs either gave a damn about real time or were allowed to post all the firmware source we might be able to fix this
02:05 PM roycroft: well i'm prepared for the pi to be a complete fail when it's running a real machine, and will be able to substitute an intel-based computer if necessary
02:05 PM roycroft: but i'm hoping it will work out
02:06 PM roycroft: i'm even going to install an ethernet jack on the controller box so that if i have to use an external computer i can just disconnect the ethernet cable from the pi to the mesa board and plug the external jack into the mesa board
02:08 PM roycroft: all that said, my pi is currently sitting on a bench next to me, mostly idling, and the cpu is almost too hot to touch
02:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: servo thread performance tends to be adequate
02:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they need heatsinks, just like x86
02:10 PM roycroft: if i get another din rail pi holder, i can mount the relay hat on that, and use a ribbon cable to connect it to the pi
02:10 PM roycroft: leaving room for a proper heat sink on the pi
02:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: $25 Rpi + $20 enclosure and heatsink and $20 power supply...... since they don't include those
02:11 PM roycroft: the electronics already don't fit into the space i allocated for them, so one more device isn't going to make any difference
02:15 PM roycroft: a cpu cooling fan might be nice, but all the ones i find have leds that light up when the fan is on
02:15 PM enleth: roycroft: what we really need is an ARM SoC board that is *not* rpi and is known to work well
02:15 PM roycroft: as a matter of principle i refuse to add that kind of bling to my electronics
02:16 PM roycroft: yes, enleth, that would be nice
02:16 PM roycroft: and i'm sure there will be one that is made to work some day
02:16 PM roycroft: but today we have the pi
02:16 PM enleth: using a CPU haphazardly duct taped onto a SmartTV GPU for realtime machine control is asking for trouble
02:17 PM roycroft: having a mesa board doing all the real time heavy lifting ameliorates some of the shortcomings of a pi
02:17 PM enleth: but the ARM architecture and ISA itself is perfectly suitable for machine control
02:17 PM pcw-home: You definately need a heatsink on the PI or it will throttle the CPU freq
02:18 PM roycroft: yeah, i can see that now
02:18 PM enleth: roycroft: not strictly all of it, unfortunately
02:18 PM roycroft: or feel it now, since i just put my finger on my mostly-idle cpu
02:18 PM roycroft: too bad i can't buy a heatsink for the pi
02:18 PM roycroft: it looks like i have to buy a dozen
02:18 PM roycroft: but still i can get a dozen for <$5, with free shipping
02:18 PM pcw-home: I've had my PI4 running LinuxCNC for a year or so now full time
02:18 PM roycroft: so i guess i should not complain about that too much
02:19 PM roycroft: it's the relay hat that is the issue
02:19 PM pcw-home: I just used a little stick on type, works fine
02:19 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Metal-Raspberry-Heatsink-Thermal-Adhesive/dp/B07VMD25SK
02:19 PM roycroft: perhaps i should have just bought the relay that jt suggested
02:20 PM roycroft: my pi is din mounted
02:20 PM roycroft: i don't have, don't need, and don't want a case for it
02:22 PM pcw-home: My HS is just a finned ALU type maybe 1.25" sq
02:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pcw-home: i have one here that has been on 24/7 for 53 weeks
02:23 PM roycroft: the pi4 that i use as an octoprint server for my 3d printer does not have a heat sink, and it's on 24/7
02:24 PM roycroft: but it usually doesn't do much work
02:24 PM roycroft: it's been up for 108 days now
02:27 PM roycroft: now to find a proper wire wrap header for an rpi
02:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.newegg.com/p/1B4-04TR-00022 using this heatsink
02:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if i don't need access to the headers then I use something like these https://www.newegg.com/p/1B4-090P-02JS7
02:29 PM roycroft: oh, the gpio pins are square
02:29 PM roycroft: i can probably wire wrap directly to them
02:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or use header connectors :)
02:30 PM roycroft: for doing individual random pins wire wrap seems a cleaner approach
02:31 PM roycroft: the pins are square, and they look hard, so wire wrap will probably work just fine
02:32 PM roycroft: i do not plan on moving the wires around once they're connected
02:33 PM roycroft: and i have a lot of wire wrap wire laying around
02:33 PM roycroft: i have a box of those dupont header pin connectors too
02:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://www.simplerobot.net/2018/06/rpi-ethercat-master-picat.html
02:40 PM roycroft: i just looked and there are no single pin connectors in that box, so wire wrap it is
02:52 PM JT-Shop: https://www.amazon.com/DIGITNOW-Capture-Grabber-Cassette-Converter/dp/B079CBGDST
02:53 PM JT-Shop: I wonder if that is worth a flip for recording from my record player?
03:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT-Shop: I'd say it should work even for your 78's :)
03:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT-Shop: where did you get your 5.10 kernel for the Rpi?
03:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sorry 5.4
03:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/39779-rpi4-raspbian-64-bit-linuxcnc-gmoccapy-problem?start=110#223572
03:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: ^^
03:16 PM roycroft: if i get this build tool working well, and order some more microsd cards online so i don't have to get irritated going to best buy any more, i should be able to pretty easily test a number of kernel/distro combinations on the pi and benchmark them
03:16 PM JT-Shop: which build tool are you using
03:16 PM roycroft: i should probably get another pi for this, so that i can actually keep using the one i have right now for the cnc router
03:17 PM roycroft: rpi-img-builder is what i got
03:17 PM roycroft: and i've been chatting with the developers of that tool
03:17 PM JT-Shop: https://github.com/pyavitz/rpi-img-builder
03:17 PM JT-Shop: that one?
03:17 PM roycroft: the docs for the tool say it runs on ubuntu, but they're doing it on debian
03:17 PM roycroft: yes
03:18 PM roycroft: and when i did an ubuntu install in a vm last night it took three hours to install
03:18 PM roycroft: i can install debian on an identical vm in 10 minutes
03:18 PM roycroft: and debian is not all weird like ubuntu
03:18 PM roycroft: so i'm going to give debian a go
03:18 PM JT-Shop: yep I think debian is much better than ubuntu
03:18 PM roycroft: but that builder does not support the 4.19 kernel any more
03:19 PM JT-Shop: 10.04 was the last decent ubuntu
03:19 PM roycroft: which is why i was asking about newer preempt kernels
03:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Ubuntu is similar to Linux
03:19 PM roycroft: ubuntu is derived from debian
03:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: some apps are compatible
03:19 PM roycroft: and i really don't know why it exists
03:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh I do
03:19 PM roycroft: the claim is that it runs better on desktop machines
03:20 PM * JT-Shop heads to UPS
03:20 PM roycroft: that may be true, but it's a pain in the butt to install, and it's just weird
03:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's just Linux with every system file renamed and moved to a different location
03:20 PM roycroft: yeah, it's the solaris of debian forks :)
03:21 PM roycroft: i don't think it has the ginormous symlink farm that sun created to obfuscate things, and that sco perfected
03:22 PM enleth: now I'm wondering if I can get linuxcnc to work on nixos
03:22 PM roycroft: oh, you can be more daring that that
03:22 PM roycroft: try to run it on minix!
03:23 PM enleth: the difference is that I actually use nixos as my main workstation OS
03:26 PM enleth: nixos devs took LSB and FHS, got a long, hard look at them - and yeeted both right out the window to never again see them
03:30 PM enleth: there are many valid and significant advantages to it, but some applications take a whole lot of effort to get working in an environment as weird as that of nix/nixos
03:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: https://imgur.com/a/qGS0xYl#MmS4Wwq you're not missing much by having left the area
03:35 PM roycroft: yeah, i've heard that chicago's finest are pretty much chicago's kookiest now
03:35 PM roycroft: and may be chicago's sickest
03:35 PM roycroft: i feel absolutely zero connection to that part of the world now
03:36 PM roycroft: if i went back today, i would not recognise it
03:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: those stats explain a lot to me
03:36 PM roycroft: the last time i was there was in 1996 or so, and i barely recognised it then
03:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah I'm only in the city for a few hours a month
03:37 PM roycroft: i remember i was on randolph street, near michigan avenue, around 5:30 in the afternoon, and the entire loop was going home
03:38 PM roycroft: when i lived there, downtown was crowded until 2am, later on weekends
03:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: '96 is the old grant park
03:38 PM roycroft: there's a new grant park?
03:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they tried to revitalize the nightlife down there
03:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: a few times
03:38 PM roycroft: the one i remember is the one where the cops were beating people up during the convention
03:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: yes the $1B parking lot with a new lawn on top
03:39 PM * roycroft remembers when the hancock center was being built, and was the tallest building in the city
03:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah we used to go on Sundays and follow the construction
03:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: same for Aon and Sears
03:42 PM roycroft: i have a lot of good memories growing up there
03:42 PM roycroft: but there was a lot of crap, too, and i never felt like i fit in there
03:42 PM roycroft: the northwet felt like home the minute i arrived in seattle in 1980
03:42 PM roycroft: so i guess this is where i am supposed to be
03:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's all falling apart here
03:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it looks so old now when coming back from abroad
03:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: like NYC in the 80's
03:43 PM roycroft: i had a layover in midway airport in the summer of 2001
03:43 PM roycroft: the end of august 2001, actually - that's the last time i was on an airplane
03:44 PM roycroft: anyway, i remember flying in and remarking how flat and brown it was there
03:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I flew in and out of Midway several times back around 2000
03:44 PM roycroft: i also remember that there was a thunderstorm while i was at midway
03:45 PM roycroft: and they closed down the airport for serveral hours
03:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: still lived in the city then
03:45 PM roycroft: when i lived in chicago, midway and o'hare were closed once - during the blizzard of '67
03:45 PM roycroft: miegs field closed all the time, but that doesn't really count as an airport :)
03:46 PM roycroft: it seems that ord closes down often these days, though
03:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they tore that up back in the 90's
03:46 PM roycroft: i wasn't aware
03:46 PM roycroft: it was built on landfill anyway
03:47 PM roycroft: best to let the lake reclaim it, i guess
03:47 PM roycroft: if that's what happened
03:47 PM roycroft: or are there luxury condos there now?
03:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: '03, and they tore out sections of the runway one night
03:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: big scandal
03:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://willystreetblog.com/wp/2013/03/31/the-day-meigs-field-died/
03:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Chicago's dictator
03:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: anyway, Xenomai on the Rpi again would be handy
03:50 PM roycroft: like father, like son
03:51 PM * roycroft used to live between comiskey park and mayor daley's house
03:51 PM roycroft: i moved away long before junior took power
03:51 PM roycroft: but i lived through senior's reign
03:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: even that is old history now
03:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but the stats really paint a good pic of why the city is a mess
03:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: especially the police farce
03:56 PM roycroft: i'm not at all impressed with the current mayor
03:56 PM roycroft: although she's a 1000% improvement over mayor rahm
03:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: americans want this crap
03:58 PM roycroft: most members are both tribes have their heads shoved so far up their arses they are not capable of knowing what they want
03:58 PM roycroft: s/are both/of both/
03:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'm an outsider
03:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: when you go anti-intellectual this is what you get
04:00 PM roycroft: "i love the poorly educated"
04:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: easier to manipulate
04:00 PM roycroft: that's the one thing that our former president said that is 100% in lockstep with the party leadership before he took over
04:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://www.simplerobot.net/2019/11/raspberry-pi-4-support.html
04:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they used rpi4-4.19.58-rt
04:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcwE6rPyD7g
04:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: already working with LCNC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ-HnrusGJo
04:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: since April
04:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: have to build some Ethercat motors now
04:38 PM Tom_L: anyone ever try to contact gecko?
04:38 PM Tom_L: seems unresponsive last few days
04:49 PM JT-Shop: about 10 years ago I did
04:50 PM Tom_itx: i wanted to find out if it's ok to power a 203v with no motor attached
04:50 PM Tom_itx: with the enable enabled
04:55 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
05:03 PM Tom_L: since i won't have that A axis hooked up most of the time
05:03 PM Tom_L: i could run a separate enable if i have to
05:03 PM JT-Shop: or a switch on the power
05:03 PM Tom_L: but he hasn't replied
05:03 PM Tom_L: they're supposed to be bullet proof :)
05:03 PM JT-Shop: I think his name is Marris IIRC
05:05 PM JT-Shop: no
05:05 PM JT-Shop: let me look on my site
05:05 PM roycroft: maybe you think i'm a spammer
05:05 PM roycroft: maybe i am a spammer
05:06 PM Tom_L: maybe it _is_ a spammer :)
05:08 PM JT-Shop: not on my webmail thingy either
05:08 PM Tom_L: must have sent it to another JT-Shop
05:10 PM Tom_L: his description of the 203v says it will survive accidental motor disconnects while powered
05:10 PM Tom_L: what if it's on purpose?
05:14 PM Tom_L: mmm NEVER put a switch on the DC side of the power supply. This will damage if not destroy your drive.
05:14 PM JT-Shop: there's only one JT-Shop and I broke the mold on the way out... my Mom told all her relatives that John was taken and they could not name their kids that
05:14 PM roycroft: Oct 19 08:42:29 mail sm-mta[10216]: 19JFgNxR010211: to=<***@****>, ctladdr=<***@***> (1000/1000), delay=00:00:03, xdelay=00:00:03, mailer=esmtp, pri=61287, relay=mx2.mailchannels.net. [34.211.194.95], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
05:15 PM Tom_L: heh
05:15 PM roycroft: it let the building
05:15 PM roycroft: left
05:15 PM Tom_L: elvis has left the building
05:15 PM JT-Shop: must have got scrambled out in space
05:15 PM roycroft: oh well
05:15 PM Tom_L: it will hit a satelite eventually and beam back to earth
05:16 PM roycroft: i had to pay $28 for 50' of 18awg stranded wire the other day
05:17 PM roycroft: that seemed rather excessive, and the store where i bought it is usually very competetive on price
05:17 PM Tom_L: single?
05:17 PM roycroft: yes
05:17 PM roycroft: but i find things like southwire (a quality brand) on amazon at $15 for 100'
05:17 PM Tom_L: i got a spool for something like 100 for 4cond
05:18 PM roycroft: 500' for $28
05:18 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Wiring/Wire1.jpg
05:18 PM roycroft: i guess i'm going to have to start buying wire online now
05:18 PM roycroft: :(
05:18 PM Tom_L: i used that on the steppers
05:18 PM roycroft: alpha wire is good stuff
05:24 PM JT-Shop: starlink order just placed
05:25 PM XXCoder: nice
05:25 PM XXCoder: no more worrying about caps
05:26 PM JT-Shop: yea, they say 2021 so not much of that left
05:27 PM * JT-Shop goes to change a brake line
05:28 PM enleth: Tom_L: this makes sense - the power supply output capacitance is a critical part of the drive's energy flow and storage handling
05:30 PM jepler[m]: roycroft: It's andypugh who did the last full image builds for raspberry pi, I think. The main headache is how poorly our packages interact with raspbian / "raspberry pi os" official kernels & firmwares. I am not motivated enough to put time into it right now. It might be worth pinging andy.
05:30 PM jepler[m]: (I wish we could use vanilla debian, because it boots on pi4 and they HAVE a -rt kernel available .. but graphics acceleration doesn't work, which is a big bummer for all the preview-oriented UIs that use OpenGL heavily)
05:31 PM enleth: Tom_L: the drive juggles energy back and forth between the motor and the DC bus, but of the two, only the motor has inertia - so if you leave the drive with just the supply connected, not much happens; just the motor connected and now it's getting energy dumped into it that it might not be able to shed
05:33 PM solarwind: When using oxygen/argon/other cylinders, you can safely fully deplete the cylinder
05:33 PM solarwind: But what about acetylene?
05:33 PM solarwind: How low is "safe"?
05:34 PM solarwind: It'll start spitting out acetone once the acetylene is depleted right? Well at least at low pressure since acetone has a low vapour pressure
05:37 PM enleth: solarwind: yes, you'll get acetone gushing out through the regulator if you overdraw, possibly damaging equipment
05:38 PM enleth: besides, some vendors will charge you an extra fee when they find out you've given them *completely* empty cylinders as they're now contaminated with air, including moisture
05:39 PM enleth: and it's still an asshole thing to do even if they have no recourse
05:49 PM JT-Shop: figures I have everything loose except one clip bolt to change the brake line... going to let it soak in break free for a while
05:52 PM roycroft: i'm off to apply the last bit of paint to my sanding cart repair
05:53 PM roycroft: when it's dry i can reinstall the caster and reassemble the cabinet
05:53 PM roycroft: and have access to my lathe again
05:53 PM roycroft: the pulleys for my mill have arrived, so i'll need to use the lathe very soon
05:56 PM roycroft: i was about to say i'll be happy when i'm finally caught up on all these little projects, but i know that by the time i'm caught up there will be a number of other little projects that have come up
05:56 PM * JT-Shop listens to Kraftwerk
05:57 PM JT-Shop: skunkworks, do you mount the starlink dish on the roof?
06:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT-Shop: whenever I've pinged Skunkworks about Starlink he says it just gets better and faster
06:02 PM JT-Shop: yep
06:03 PM XXCoder: think it can be anywhere as long as it gets power, ability to be connected to, and has sight to as large slice of sky as possible?
06:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: my concern is when it becomes available for mobile that it will have layers of crap attached to it for "security concerns"
06:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the current stationary accounts only work within a few miles of your registered address
06:05 PM JT-Shop: that's not a problem for me
06:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: will be a big change for you
06:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: over the current low data caps
06:10 PM JT-Shop: aye
06:11 PM JT-Shop: anyhow chow time here, time to lock up and toss the cat out
06:12 PM Tom_L: count the chickens
06:12 PM JT-Shop: tuck them in in about an hour
06:12 PM JT-Shop: and read them a bed time story
07:27 PM skunkworks: JT-Shop: it is currently mounted to the shop roof
07:27 PM skunkworks: Let me see if I have a picture
07:29 PM skunkworks: JT-Shop: you can download the starlink app and it will show you if you have any obstructions..
07:38 PM skunkworks: (used the camera on your phone and gives you a 'horizon' that needs to be clear)
07:48 PM skunkworks: JT-Shop:
07:48 PM skunkworks: https://photos.app.goo.gl/zA4LWzaaNfNzCeEz8
07:49 PM XXCoder: snowy already?
07:49 PM skunkworks: lol - that is when dad first got it..
07:49 PM XXCoder: oh
07:49 PM skunkworks: somewhere is febuary maybe?
07:49 PM skunkworks: february?
07:51 PM roycroft: i have power to my 48v power supply now
07:52 PM roycroft: not a lot of progress today, but progress nevertheless
07:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: are they out scanning license plates now on private property? One of our 20 year old cars had a tag placed on the wiper arm informing us of a safety recall for it
07:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the tag had a print of the license plate
07:53 PM roycroft: it's those amazon drones using google databases
07:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: was not parked at home
07:53 PM roycroft: all your data are belong to them
07:53 PM roycroft: that's why they used the drone
07:53 PM roycroft: to find it
07:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah, seems to be so
07:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they had to walk onto private property from the street as well
07:54 PM roycroft: so they are criminals as well
07:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how does one make $ by performing this service?
07:55 PM roycroft: i don't suppose you are supposed to meet them in a wal*mart parking lot so they can effect the repair, are you?
07:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: some sort of bounty on tracking down vehicles with unserviced recalls?
07:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tag says call any dealer
07:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so it's not like they are trying to get the business
07:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: seems awfully paranoid
07:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: for your benefit
07:57 PM tiwake[m]: why does it matter?
07:58 PM tiwake[m]: also, where does it matter? lol
07:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: in your pants it matters
07:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: also in theaters
08:02 PM skunkworks: could it be the car companies did a cost analysis and decided it was cheaper to pay someone to find these cars than it is to get sued when something goes wrong?
08:02 PM skunkworks: that is the only thing I can think of..
08:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if it is a safety recall then they might cancel your insurance
08:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: interesting
08:03 PM skunkworks: and now the car is in a db saying they did find the car and did their part to find you?
08:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: takata air bags
08:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh man they have had to replace those a few times
08:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the replacements of the replacements still had shrapnel
08:08 PM roycroft: yeah, but they will still prevent you from being killed by the person who ran into you
08:08 PM roycroft: instead, you'll be killed by your airbag
08:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's more consistent that way
08:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: easier just to swap VIN from a different make and model
08:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh yeah they frown on that as well
08:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we used to have a drawer filled with tags and titles from cars we would buy for parts
08:10 PM roycroft: that's actually pretty hard to do these days, as the vin is usually in multiple locations on the car
08:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: restorations might be 20 different vehicles
08:11 PM * roycroft needs to figure out what is for dinner
08:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: when you do a frame off project you discover all the hidden places
08:12 PM roycroft: sure, but to change the vin you have to change it in all those hidden places
08:12 PM roycroft: which is why it is harder than it used to be
08:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bring in your Toyota for a recall but the entire drive train is custom
08:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: wonder what they would do if we had swapped interiors?
08:14 PM tiwake[m]: just do a kit car and call it good
08:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: same thing
08:14 PM tiwake[m]: https://www.factoryfive.com/
08:15 PM tiwake[m]: or similar
08:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: used to do that decades ago
08:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: looking into making out of production parts again
08:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: casting engine parts maybe to start
08:16 PM tiwake[m]: oh, manufacturing your own cars?
08:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: no, making parts that are long out of production
08:16 PM tiwake[m]: hmm
08:17 PM tiwake[m]: I talked with a friend about doing that maybe
08:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: considered offering electric conversions as well a few years ago
08:17 PM roycroft: you should come do one for me
08:18 PM roycroft: i have a '65 vw bus that i have been wanting to convert to an ev
08:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you can't afford me
08:18 PM roycroft: perhaps not
08:18 PM roycroft: but you never know
08:18 PM roycroft: it would be a perfect ev project though
08:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: fill the back with batteries
08:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: could go to the moon
08:19 PM roycroft: it's not aerodynamic, but it has plent of room for batteries
08:19 PM roycroft: and it can haul literally a ton
08:19 PM tiwake[m]: >old cop cars
08:19 PM roycroft: most people are not aware of the hauling capacity of a vw bus
08:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: talked about doing a VW bus sleeper dragster years ago, never built it
08:20 PM roycroft: it's been done
08:20 PM roycroft: they can be wicked fast
08:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: had other silly ones as well, double decker version
08:21 PM roycroft: around here it was common for a while to put a vw bus body on top of a school bus
08:22 PM roycroft: as well, folks would put a vw beetle body on top of a vw bus, but that did not work well, imo
08:22 PM roycroft: the beetle and the bus are almost the same width, and it's hard to blend them together
08:23 PM roycroft: but this is eugene, where there are lots of weird people with weird vehicles
08:23 PM roycroft: there are still three repair shops of which i'm aware in the eugene area that specialize in air-cooled vws
08:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: friends dad as a kid had a few, I recall one trip was to pick up enough gravel to re-pour a garage floor
08:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: had a hard time stopping going downhill on a bridge
08:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we were standing in the back on top of the gravel
08:24 PM roycroft: most folks put passenger tires on vw buses
08:24 PM roycroft: they really need light truck tires
08:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: those were the days
08:24 PM tiwake[m]: does the raspberry pie work with linuxCNC?
08:24 PM roycroft: that's the biggest reason that people ay they don't handle well
08:24 PM roycroft: they have the wrong tires on them
08:25 PM Tom_L: tiwake[m], rpi4
08:25 PM roycroft: some folks use an rpi3 with linuxcnc
08:25 PM roycroft: but rpi4 is certainly better
08:25 PM roycroft: with an fpga board to do the real time stuff
08:26 PM roycroft: i am building such a machine currently
08:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: don't forget Orangepi's and Bananapi's
08:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Opis do the real time stuff as well without an FPGA
08:26 PM roycroft: how to defend yourself against someone attacking you with a raspberry pi
08:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pointed sticks?
08:27 PM Tom_L: tiwake[m], https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0OLIth_cOI
08:27 PM roycroft: there will be time for that later
08:27 PM roycroft: you likely watched monty python at the same time i did initially
08:27 PM roycroft: at 10:30 pm sunday nights on wttw
08:28 PM tiwake[m]: Tom_L: thanks
08:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tiwake: http://linuxcnc.org/downloads/ look right in the first section :)
08:28 PM Tom_L: that's an old iso but it does work
08:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: LinuxCNC 2.8.1 Raspberry Pi OS based on Debian 10 Buster
08:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Raspberry Pi 4 Uspace compatible with Mesa Ethernet and SPI interface boards.
08:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc-2.8.1-pi4.zip
08:29 PM roycroft: i've run it headless on an rpi4, doing x forwarding over ssh
08:29 PM roycroft: but just for testing - not controlling a machine
08:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: even better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ-HnrusGJo
08:30 PM mrec: I have some steel block here where I'd like to mill out some stub, https://snipboard.io/6k4pTg.jpg
08:30 PM mrec: how would you guys do that?
08:30 PM Tom_L: wedm
08:30 PM mrec: FreeCAD has no stepping support for contours it seems, so should I put G01/G02 into a loop to mill that out?
08:31 PM Tom_L: i probably would
08:31 PM Tom_L: why G2?
08:31 PM Tom_L: i don't see an arc
08:31 PM mrec: sorry G0/G1
08:32 PM mrec: I mean the entire T stub not the small edge stubs there (just to avoid confusion)
08:32 PM Tom_L: lay it flat the other way so you don't have to go so deep with the EM
08:32 PM mrec: it's only 15mm
08:32 PM Tom_L: then take it in 2 passes on a real mill
08:33 PM mrec: I'd use a 4mm endmill (well that's the biggest carbide which I have here I think)
08:33 PM mrec: my other ones are HSS-AL and they'll break for sure.
08:33 PM Tom_L: yeah, i'd lay it sideways though
08:33 PM mrec: it's only 18.5mm thick in total
08:33 PM Tom_L: the longer the shank the more trouble you'll get into
08:33 PM mrec: the T stub itself is 7.5mm
08:34 PM mrec: ok well I'll put G0/G1 into a loop then.
08:34 PM mrec: taking 0.6mm from the side 10mm deep
08:36 PM Tom_L: use the 20% 75-80% rule as a guide
08:36 PM Tom_L: width/depth
08:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how deep can i cut with a 4" long length of cut 1/4" end mill?
08:59 PM tiwake[m]: kek
08:59 PM tiwake[m]: grind all the flutes down so only about 1/4" of the end can cut
09:00 PM tiwake[m]: then... maybe
09:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: look at this one https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/76488774
09:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 3/8", 3" LOC, 3/8" Shank Diam, 6" OAL, 3 Flute, Solid Carbide Square End Mill
09:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.harveytool.com/products/miniature-end-mills---square---extra-long-length
09:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Up to 10” overall length
09:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "doctor ordered me to stay away from work"
09:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tiwake: https://allwincnc.github.io/index.html configuring is still tricky but it works without an FPGA
09:13 PM tiwake[m]: thanks
09:13 PM tiwake[m]: I need to bed though :(
09:13 PM tiwake[m]: got another 12 hours of work tomorrow
09:13 PM tiwake[m]: maybe more
09:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I passed out a couple of hours ago
09:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I might still be asleep right now