#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 12 2021

12:59 AM Deejay: moin
04:58 AM JT-Cave: morning
07:12 AM LuminaxWk is now known as Luminax
07:27 AM Tom_L: morning
07:28 AM CloudEvil: hey
08:46 AM Eric__ is now known as unterhausen
10:20 AM roycroft: good morning, folks
10:20 AM roycroft: have any of you ever used a relay 'hat' on a rpi?
10:21 AM roycroft: i need to switch some 24v signals, and would prefer to do it on the rpi instead of the mesa card
10:21 AM JT-Shop: I've used several relay cards with rpi's
10:21 AM roycroft: it looks like the 'hat' just sits on top of the pi, and the gpio pins work as expected, but control the relays instead of controlling the devices directly
10:22 AM roycroft: is that correct?
10:22 AM JT-Shop: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KTEN3TM I used this kind
10:24 AM roycroft: i could use something like that, but the cabinet i'm using to mount everything i thought was rather large, but is filling up quickly
10:24 AM JT-Shop: the only board I've used that sits on top of the rpi is a breakout board
10:24 AM roycroft: i'm more interested in one that connects directly to the pi
10:24 AM JT-Shop: I control the relays with a python program
10:26 AM roycroft: i thought that linuxcnc has a hal interface to the rpi gpio pins
10:27 AM JT-Shop: I've not seen that but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist
10:28 AM roycroft: there's discussion on the forum about hal_pi_gpio being part of 2.8
10:29 AM roguish[m]: JT-Shop: good morning. which of your nice tutorials is most applicable for Qtvcp ?
10:31 AM roycroft: i don't intend to do any real time stuff with the pi gpio pins, but i thought it would be good to use the pi to control my indicator light stack
10:31 AM roycroft: save the mesa board for things that are more urgent
10:31 AM JT-Shop: roycroft, none... I've never looked at Qtvcp
10:32 AM * roycroft redirects that to roguish
10:33 AM roguish[m]: thanks
10:51 AM snakedLX is now known as snaked
12:03 PM unterhausen: I couldn't find hal_pi_gpio in the docs for 2.8
12:04 PM unterhausen: probably because I'm doing it wrong again
12:11 PM Tom_L: i haven't heard of that one
12:23 PM unterhausen: if you search google for it, it shows up in the source for master
12:24 PM unterhausen: otherwise I got no idear
12:26 PM Tom_L: then that wouldn't be 2.8
12:27 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:28 PM Tom_L: i found a couple threads on it
12:31 PM roycroft: i've decided to see if i can find a straightforward way to use the transmission on my mill with the new motor
12:32 PM roycroft: i have concerns about slowing a 3750rpm motor down to 200rpm and having it still be at all useful
12:32 PM unterhausen: my bridgeport had a pneumatic cylinder on the brake and an air motor on the speed control
12:32 PM unterhausen: but you had to change to back gears by hand
12:32 PM roycroft: i don't mind doing that
12:33 PM roycroft: nor whatever i have to do with linuxcnc to let it know i have two speed rangs
12:33 PM roycroft: the concern is getting a timing gear to fit the transmission
12:33 PM unterhausen: I did think about changing the air motor out for a stepper motor
12:33 PM unterhausen: needs air to hold up the knee though
12:35 PM roycroft: the folks who bypass the transmission on their x3 mills are generally looking for higher spindle speeds anyway
12:36 PM roycroft: which makes sense, as a machine of that class is better suited to working aluminium and plastics than steel and iron
12:36 PM roycroft: but i need mine to do it all
12:41 PM roycroft: so i have a question for which there is no one right answer, but i'd like people's opinions and rationale for them
12:42 PM roycroft: i generally install hour meters on my machines, which helps track not only how much they're used, but help trigger preventive maintenance
12:42 PM roycroft: on my cnc router, i'm not sure what is the best "ontime" to track
12:42 PM roycroft: i have it down to three states:
12:43 PM roycroft: 1. when the 48v bus is powered on (motion control enabled, but not doing anything)
12:43 PM roycroft: 2. vfd is powered on (spindle enabled, but not doing anything)
12:43 PM roycroft: 3. spindle on
12:43 PM roycroft: there's kind of a fourth state - actually running code
12:44 PM roycroft: but i think that i should accrue hours whenever the spindle is on, at least, even if it's not cutting anythhing
12:44 PM roycroft: anything
12:44 PM roycroft: my inclination is to accrue time whenever there is power to the vfd, as i think i would tend to turn the vfd on shortly before running a job, and turn it off when i'm done with the job
12:45 PM roycroft: any other opinions on that?
12:47 PM roycroft: i figure i'll probably power up the controller, load programs or whatever, then power up the 48v power supply so i can home/jog/whatever i need to do while setting up for a job, load the initial tool and home, then power up the vfd right before actually performing work, so that would give the most useful number on actual usage of the machine
12:48 PM unterhausen: I thought you were having trouble with pulleys
12:55 PM roycroft: yes, on my mill
12:56 PM roycroft: and i'm still sorting out what to do about that
12:56 PM roycroft: but i'm working on my cnc router project concurrently
12:56 PM roycroft: i don't know if i'm slow, or if it's just a lot of work, but it takes me a long time to draw schematics for control systems
12:57 PM roycroft: so i don't want to wait until the day before i start the main build to do that
01:20 PM JT-Shop: on my BP I cycle the oiler after motion.current-vel is > 0 for a time which indicates movement
01:20 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, what does your stack light indicate?
01:28 PM roycroft: it will have five lights and an annunciator
01:29 PM roycroft: the five states it will indicate are: low voltage power (rpi and 24v on), 48v (motion control system) on, vfd power on, spindle on, and e-stop
01:29 PM roycroft: e-stop will also be accompanied by an audible alarm
01:30 PM roycroft: i may change that slightly
01:30 PM roycroft: i may change spindle on to program running
01:36 PM JT-Shop: looks like all that can be done with just relays
01:37 PM JT-Shop: well maybe not program running
01:46 PM JT-Shop: halui.program.is-running could be used for your hour meter with an output
01:48 PM JT-Shop: hmm rain the rest of the week, I better get all the rounds cut and stacked under the carport
01:48 PM roycroft: so that would make it easy if i decide to log program run times
01:48 PM roycroft: i figured that would be the case
01:48 PM roycroft: i'm planning on letting linuxcnc control the light tree and the hour meter
01:48 PM JT-Shop: for program run time there is http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man9/time.9.html
01:48 PM roycroft: other than the low voltage on indicator, which will be directly driven by the 24v power supply
01:56 PM JT-Shop: if you run out of I/O you can add https://mesaus.com/product/7i84/
01:56 PM JT-Shop: it's magic and just shows up when you plug it in
02:09 PM roycroft: yeah, that's an option
02:09 PM roycroft: but i should be able to use the gpio pins on the pi
02:10 PM roycroft: i don't think i'll run out of i/o on the current mesa board, but i figure i should try to use the pi gpio pins for non-real time stuff, and reserve the ones on the mesa board as much as possible
02:10 PM roycroft: besides, it's an interesting configuration, i think
02:14 PM JT-Shop: the only way I know to use the gpio pins is to write a python program and import linuxcnc and use the stat module
02:14 PM JT-Shop: I briefly looked at gstat and it might be a better choice dunno
02:16 PM roycroft: i'm not trying to take business away from you and pcw, but i look at the pi and i see all those gpio pins not doing anything, and i figure i should try to do something with them
02:19 PM roycroft: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/27-driver-boards/37700-hal-driver-for-raspberry-pi-gpios
02:24 PM JT-Shop: cool, I see andy's reply about the hal_pi_gpio component in 2.8
02:24 PM roycroft: yeah
02:24 PM roycroft: that's what made me think i can use the gpio pins
02:24 PM roycroft: someone saying they did it
02:24 PM roycroft: and someone i "know" saying it should work
02:25 PM JT-Shop: hmm I'm not seeing it but I have my label printer in my lap and left the Kubota tractor running
02:26 PM roycroft: cool
02:26 PM roycroft: i'm not impressed with the wrap-around labels for the epson
02:26 PM roycroft: but i only plan on using those for large cables now
02:27 PM roycroft: and i have a lifetime supply of large wrap-around lables for my panduit panther
02:31 PM Tom_L: roycroft, i keep time on the current tool and overall program run time
02:31 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/screenshot.png
04:03 PM andypugh: I have some dymo label cartridges that are actually heat-shrink tube. Pretty cool for labelling wires. Example: https://photos.app.goo.gl/SLqMadc3zyQXndR46
04:06 PM pere: hi
04:07 PM andypugh: Hi
04:07 PM Tom_L: hi
04:08 PM Tom_L: andypugh, what's that control for?
04:08 PM Tom_L: lots of what looks like relays
04:09 PM andypugh: It’s a central heating controller for my mum’s house. Which has 5 zones and 3 pumps….
04:09 PM Tom_L: ahh i remember that display you did
04:09 PM andypugh: Software here:
04:10 PM andypugh: https://github.com/andypugh/ESP-Heat
04:11 PM pere: I'm considering converting a Mazak VQC-15/40 to LinuxCNC, but it is a bit unclear to me what the concrete advantages will be. I've already found <URL: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/47-hal-examples/39456-mazak-vqc-15-40-integration >. Anyone here with experience of such conversion?
04:13 PM Tom_L: is the Mazak control working?
04:14 PM pere: I believe so.
04:15 PM Tom_L: why are you considering the change then?
04:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what is keeping 3D scanners from dropping below ~$30K for scanning parts <1m^3 to at least down to 50um res?
04:16 PM andypugh: Possible reasons would include the Mazak controller being limited to one axis at a time, or 2000 lines of G-code. (I am not saying that either of these is true, but some older controls have those sorts of limits)
04:17 PM pere: Tom_L: because I like linux. :)
04:17 PM Tom_L: well there you go! get busy :)
04:17 PM andypugh: That’s not a terrible reason. And you will almost certainly feel more “in control” of your controller.
04:17 PM Tom_L: plenty of community help around
04:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pere: low cost and available parts after converting
04:18 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, hal_pi_gpio is indeed in 2.8 but there must not be a man page yet
04:18 PM roycroft: thanks, that's good to know
04:18 PM roycroft: i think i should be able to figure it out from the forum post
04:19 PM pere: CaptHindsight[m]: what is the high cost before conversion? and do you mean the PC and pci card parts
04:19 PM andypugh: JT-Shop: Indeed, there is no manpage. The only docs seem to be in a commented sample config.
04:19 PM JT-Shop: looking
04:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 30 year old controls?
04:20 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop needs another project anyway
04:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pere: Mazak parts are expensive
04:21 PM andypugh: JT-Shop: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/e0dc3a0bb9e9ff4b283f52586d505f4b9bcda60d#diff-73558ef5596afa50f1c21a9a3ba5e48a7f9c7362c0997b345919661d02a287b7
04:21 PM pere: CaptHindsight[m]: mill is from 1987.
04:21 PM andypugh: JT-Shop: Or, maybe just src/hal/drivers/hal_pi_gpio_demo.hal
04:21 PM JT-Shop: aye reading that now
04:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pere: I have a similar matsuura from '89
04:21 PM andypugh: pere: Analog servo drives?
04:22 PM pere: andypugh: I'm too new with this, no idea yet. :)
04:22 PM andypugh: If so, then that’s an easy conversion. And you can probably arrange to be able to unplug one controller and plug in the other.
04:23 PM JT-Shop: I feel like my BP Discovery 308 is a young gal it's only 1993
04:23 PM andypugh: (Though that might mean finding some odd and expensive connectors. Possibly Honda connectors, though I am not sure that Mazak used those)
04:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if you are not used to rewiring machines it can look intimidating
04:24 PM andypugh: I missed my bikes birthday. It was probably made around 1st September 1921
04:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: lots of IO to also deal with besides the servo control, limit and home switches, hydraulic pumps and valves etc
04:24 PM pere: CaptHindsight[m]: I take it as a challenge, but have no idea what I get myself into. :)
04:24 PM JT-Shop: that beats my Ferguson F40 from 1956... crap I'm older than my tractor
04:25 PM andypugh: It’s fun. It’s so much fun that you might find yourself not making things any more, but just making machines to make things. :-)
04:25 PM JT-Shop: hmm the dir mask and exclude mask may take some study
04:26 PM andypugh: JT-Shop: I did ask someone to create docs on the forum, and they almost agreed to.
04:26 PM JT-Shop: I'll give it a shot
04:26 PM roycroft: so if i want to test the rpi gpio pins isolated and not connect/configure my mesa board, will linuxcnc be ok with that, or is it pretty much impossible to configure without a sense that it's going to be doing some motion control?
04:35 PM roycroft: i.e. can i configure a zero axis spindleless machine?
04:35 PM JT-Shop: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/hal/drivers/hal_pi_gpio_demo.hal
04:35 PM JT-Shop: example of connecting to the gpio
04:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pere: will certainly be a learning experience
04:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: star grounds, power supplies, differential signals, wire marking, etc etc
04:38 PM roycroft: oh cool, thanks
04:38 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight[m]: I would be guessing that the types you describe who would give their motivation as “I like Linux”, though :-)
04:38 PM roycroft: i suspected linuxcnc would not "require" any minimal configuration like that
04:38 PM andypugh: Err, that was a bit of a word salad.
04:39 PM roycroft: i just want to test the gpio pins on the pi isolated from anything else
04:39 PM andypugh: “would not” should be between “describe” and “give”
04:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I often just use the out of the box 3-axis config and test the GPIO's
04:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or test while running stepconf
04:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/halshow.html
04:42 PM roycroft: i have found the answer to the relay hats on a pi
04:42 PM roycroft: it is "it depends on what you get"
04:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/halshow.html#_watch_tab watch the IO change states as you interact with the external hardware
04:43 PM roycroft: and "try to make sure that whatever you get has documentation"
04:44 PM roycroft: i have my linuxcnc pi offline at the moment
04:45 PM roycroft: i'm waiting for some piece of din rail and some circuit breakers to arrive, then i'll start assembling the control box and i'll be able to start testing
04:45 PM roycroft: so probably by week's end
04:46 PM roycroft: the stuff i want to do with the gpio pins comes before any of the motion control stuff
04:47 PM roycroft: i'm not sure this is the best approach, but i'm planning on building and testing the control box incrementally, instead of building the whole thing and then testing to see if it works
04:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: andypugh: https://www.reddit.com/r/CNC/ I skim the forums trying to see what drives people to choose the retrofit controller they choose
04:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if they are more a machinist or shop they choose Centroid or mach, if they have engineering skills they tend to choose LCNC
04:51 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, should the text be centered on the heat shrink tape? mine is on the right
04:55 PM roycroft: check on the left and you'll see about a 4mm stub that's half-cut
04:55 PM roycroft: pull it off and it will be centered
04:55 PM JT-Shop: I see now, thanks
04:56 PM roycroft: i finally cloned a windows vm and installed their windows desktop software
04:57 PM roycroft: it's pretty poor - even worse than the brother software
04:57 PM roycroft: but it looks like it will do the things i have to do with it - let me download custom symbols to the printer and do firmware upgrades
04:58 PM roycroft: the printer itself can handle all the other functions without the desktop link, as far as i can tell
04:58 PM roycroft: which is way different than the brother software - with my p-touch printers i cannot do anything but the most simple layouts with the printer itself
04:58 PM JT-Shop: can you download fonts to the printer?
04:58 PM roycroft: i need the desktop software for anything "fancy"
04:58 PM roycroft: and "fancy" includes centering text instead of flush lefting it
04:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsHcxUkT1N0 doesn't look very rigid
04:59 PM roycroft: i don't see how one can download fonts, but if you need a custom font you can use the desktop software and have access to all the windows fonts
04:59 PM roycroft: whatever you've installed
04:59 PM JT-Shop: yeah I see that, you can download the labels to the printer
05:00 PM roycroft: i wish i could download fonts
05:00 PM roycroft: i'd really like to install news gothic on the printer
05:00 PM roycroft: it's a sans-serif proportional space font, but it's narrower than arial yet easier to read than arial
05:00 PM roycroft: it's my go-to for anthing i print that's small
05:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: much better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl7FKy9vGdw
05:02 PM JT-Shop: Epson is sending me the pdf of the label software manual
05:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: maybe convert an old engine lathe to line boring lathe
05:03 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight[m]: I disagree. The first mounts the guide bearings to the actual engine case. That’s about as good as you can get.
05:03 PM unterhausen: I have heard of people going into car engine machine shops and seeing that they have dropped their mill on its side doing machining like that
05:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: andypugh: are they in the plates?
05:03 PM andypugh: I see no other reason to have the plates.
05:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i didn't see apart
05:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah if you have decent bearings and you align the plates properly
05:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have to find a video of it actually boring and how they change the tooling
05:06 PM unterhausen: yeah, I wanted to see it cutting
05:07 PM unterhausen: it's boring for the crankshaft?
05:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: looks like placement for the cam
05:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: some blocks don't give you much access to the cam bearing locations
05:09 PM JT-Shop: I just installed news gothic
05:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: that V6 block has to be at least 300mm long but the boring bar is not 2x that
05:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so do they cut one bearing location at a time and then you have to slide the cutting tool down the bar to the next location?
05:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the bar sticks out maybe 70mm from each end of the block https://youtu.be/qsHcxUkT1N0?t=418
05:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: lowest cost than a dedicated machine, saves floor space in exchange for time spent moving the cutting tool around
05:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhausen: the title says CAM, so maybe it's not rigid enough to handle cranks
05:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: looks like ~0.5 in plate
05:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: make a plate that extends down from the mounting holes on the block to the fixture below or the table below
05:27 PM unterhausen: it says "main and cams"
05:29 PM roycroft: it's time to go figure out what i can do about the timing gear on my mill transmission
05:30 PM roycroft: hopefully i can figure something out
05:33 PM JT-Shop: wow these PHD slides and reed switches I'm using off my shelf is worth $1k...
05:33 PM JT-Shop: gotta find out what the JVL servo and nano plc ad Tolomatic actuator is worth
05:33 PM roycroft: so what do you think of your label printer so far, jt-shop?
05:34 PM JT-Shop: I like it, the software is taking a bit of time to understand
05:35 PM roycroft: i don't like the software at all
05:35 PM roycroft: but i don't think i'll need to use it often
05:35 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, any word on your Honda build? was out to the dealer today and the lot is bare
05:36 PM JT-Shop: I do like you can import a spreadsheet of labels
05:36 PM Tom_L: as are most others
05:36 PM roycroft: yes, that is nice
05:36 PM roycroft: and something i may use for some things
05:36 PM JT-Shop: it's still on the build list for this month as of Saturday
05:36 PM roycroft: like all the wires on the mesa board
05:36 PM Tom_L: hope they have enough parts to make a complete one
05:37 PM JT-Shop: lol me too
05:37 PM roycroft: that would be a lot easier to do in a spreadsheet than typing them in individually on the printer
05:37 PM JT-Shop: tired of driving worn out vehicles
05:37 PM Tom_L: her sis had a small accident in hers last month and it will be mid november before they even look at it
05:37 PM JT-Shop: might make sense to download them to the printer then print
05:38 PM JT-Shop: jeez, that busy?
05:38 PM Tom_L: no parts
05:38 PM Tom_L: the ports are backed up with ships and nobody to unload them
05:39 PM Tom_L: starting to be the same on both ends now
05:39 PM JT-Shop: longshoremen are on strike?
05:39 PM Tom_L: nobody wants to be in large groups
05:40 PM Tom_L: no strike that i know of
05:40 PM Tom_L: better stock up while you can
05:40 PM roycroft: so a few months ago i signed up for a "free" account at woodworkers guild of america's website so i could watch a video
05:41 PM JT-Shop: container ships are unloaded by a guy in a crane
05:41 PM Tom_L: we had a 42" water main break and had to boil water last week. everybody was out of bottled water in a couple hours
05:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the ports won't invest in any temporary infrastructure
05:41 PM roycroft: of course, they use the free accounts to pitch their premium membership, and of course, they started spamming me
05:41 PM roycroft: only $60/year for a full membership
05:41 PM roycroft: but then i got some spam for $50/year
05:41 PM roycroft: then $40
05:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and they won't get people involved to manage the unloading to increase efficiency
05:41 PM Tom_L: so now autos will come with a 10k price increase no haggling
05:41 PM roycroft: it's been going down constantly
05:42 PM roycroft: yesterday they wanted $2.99 for a full year
05:42 PM roycroft: today it's $2.29
05:42 PM JT-Shop: lol
05:42 PM roycroft: i wonder how low they will go
05:42 PM roycroft: i wonder when they will start offering me money if i upgrade
05:42 PM JT-Shop: maybe they will pay you to take a full year
05:43 PM roycroft: i usually just delete the spam addresses when this stuff starts, but i'm curious now what their rock bottom price is
05:43 PM roycroft: to go from $60 to $2.29 is a pretty steep discount
05:43 PM JT-Shop: what do you get?
05:43 PM roycroft: the ability to view their "premium" videos
05:43 PM JT-Shop: ah
05:43 PM roycroft: i don't know if there's anything else
05:44 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight[m]: Typically when line-boring you use one cutter per bearing and have only enough travel to cut one bearing journal. (and you move the cutter along the bar, rather than cut them all at the same time.
05:44 PM roycroft: i only ever was interested in the one free video
05:44 PM roycroft: but i had to sign up to watch it
05:44 PM JT-Shop: VW line boring was done all at once
05:44 PM roycroft: doesn't that make setup a lot more fiddly, andypugh?
05:44 PM JT-Shop: for over size bearings
05:45 PM roycroft: and yeah, when i've seen vw cases line bored it was all in one go with one cutter
05:45 PM JT-Shop: one cutter per bearing
05:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: andypugh: seems like a slow process for production
05:45 PM roycroft: i don't remember that, but perhaps
05:45 PM roycroft: it's been a long time
05:46 PM roycroft: which reminds me
05:46 PM roycroft: i have a half dozen vw engines in various states of disassembly that i'd really like to get rid of soon
05:46 PM andypugh: I am talking about rework.
05:46 PM roycroft: yes, rework
05:47 PM andypugh: For production, yes they do them all at the same time, and scrap a dozen cases setting it all up.
05:47 PM andypugh: Reworking you don’t have that option.
05:47 PM roycroft: the upright vw engines needed to be line bored semi-frequently
05:47 PM JT-Shop: aye for oversize bearing rework the VW boring bar had a cutter for each bearing
05:47 PM roycroft: the pancake engines were more durable
05:47 PM andypugh: https://ajinkyaindustries.com/micro-bore-units.html
05:48 PM andypugh: (clones, but decent pictures)
05:48 PM andypugh: You move one of those down the bar.
05:48 PM roycroft: fortunately, i've only ever owned vw buses, and usually newer ones (excluding my water-cooled vws), so i have very little personal experience working with the upright engines
05:49 PM Tom_L: yeah i've done quite a few VW align bore jobs
05:49 PM Tom_L: nice tool they had for those back then
05:49 PM roycroft: with vw engines it's almost a backyard mechanic thing
05:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://i.imgur.com/HLd2x7I.jpg the only access to the cam journals is from each end or through the lifter bores
05:49 PM Tom_L: just about
05:50 PM Tom_L: can you mount the tool to the freeze plug cap hole in the back?
05:50 PM Tom_L: it probably has a cap on the back
05:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so to bore that would take hours using the above
06:00 PM Tom_L: does it need to be bored?
06:00 PM Tom_L: have you checked it
06:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: a freshly poured engine block would need the cam and crank journals align bored
06:04 PM Tom_L: well yeah
06:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it would be nice if sand casting could produce suitable aligned and finished bores without the secondary machining typically reuired
06:06 PM Tom_L: not sure that will ever be possible
06:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the scenario is, using the power of LCNC and sand and resin, one can go from CAD to cast engine block in the same day, even 10 blocks in a day
06:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: which align boring machines are available for lower volume production applications ?
06:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gxKOvZeNi0
06:12 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Unknown-TDG40-Line-Boring-Machine/dp/B01N4MUYAN
06:12 PM Tom_L: :)
06:14 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-inYCr-fV3Q
06:14 PM roycroft: and here's a high tech crankshaft factory
06:14 PM roycroft: i'm sure some of you have seen that video
06:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: crank journals are usually pretty easy to access
06:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: cam journals typically are not
06:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: on most older push rod engines
06:25 PM roycroft: i just got another email from wwga reminding me that their $2.29 special is only valid for today
06:25 PM roycroft: does that mean it goes down to $1.99 tomorrow?
06:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://youtu.be/_aumADpI5gc?t=278 with a fixture like this at least you can access the boring bar
06:41 PM {HD}: any air compress nerds here? I have an 80gal 25scfm compressor and I drop down to 3/8 pretty quickly. Should I replumb with 1/2 and only drop to 3/8 (or even 1/4) right at the tools?
06:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and in 2 more days they pay you $4 to join
06:43 PM {HD}: and is it like a chain where it is only as good as the weakest link? or if I plumb with 1/2 hose but have a 3/8 bottleneck does that mean the whole system might as well be 3/8?
06:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's a short restriction vs a long length of 3/8, similar to a sharp 90 deg bend
06:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the longer the restriction, the more it will restrict!
06:45 PM {HD}: so I should avoid sharp 90˚ bends... I just a sharp 90 right at the tank.
06:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-flow-compressed-air-pipe-line-d_1280.html
06:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/compressed-air-pressure-drop-fittings-d_1279.html
06:49 PM {HD}: that is interesting.
06:50 PM {HD}: so my 1 90˚ is only 6" of pipe...that isn't that bad.
06:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you should be able to find all your answers using their cahrts and calculators
06:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: charts even
06:51 PM {HD}: I will check it out. I have everything plumbed with 3/8 now but I wanted to match the "dryer" to the scfm of the compressor. So I might replumb with 1/2"
06:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.rapidairproducts.com/technical-faq/flow-rate-calculator
06:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://theworkshopcompressor.com/learn/compressed-air-systems/compressed-air-piping/compressed-air-pipe-sizing-calculation/
06:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.engineersedge.com/fluid_flow/flow_of_compressed_air_14030.htm
06:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.engineersedge.com/fluid_flow/flow_of_air_in_pipes_14029.htm
06:56 PM {HD}: those are getting too complicated. Some of the earlier tables I thought made sense but I don't know the ounces/in^2
06:58 PM {HD}: I guess I will run the compressor, ,regulator, filter, refrigerator, filter with 1/2 and then drop to 3/8... seems like I can run 1/2 for hundreds of feet and still be okay.
07:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sure it helps to keep all the fittings to 1/2 in
07:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: {HD}: don't confuse 90 deg bend with 90 deg elbow
07:11 PM {HD}: 😬
07:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: an elbow has a very short radius
07:12 PM {HD}: that is what I have
07:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 0.8ft of 1/2in pipe per 90 deg elbow
07:13 PM {HD}: not awful since I only have the 1...
07:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: vs 0.5ft of 1/2 pipe per 90 deg bend, you still have plenty of margin
07:13 PM {HD}: what is the radius of a bend?
07:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but it adds up if you have lots more of them
07:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I don't think that calculator has the radius used for each pipe size
07:16 PM {HD}: I don't think I will actually need 25scfm for anythign I am doing but I might as well match the refrigerator dryer to compressor capability...
07:17 PM roycroft: tight radius bends will be constrictive
07:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.thermopedia.com/content/577/
07:17 PM roycroft: if you replace elbows with sweeps you'll get more air out the other end
07:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oldy but goodie paper on it https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/jres/21/jresv21n1p1_A1b.pdf
07:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Part of Journal of Research of the National Bureau of Standards, Volume 21,
07:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: July 1938
07:18 PM {HD}: wow, some people are really smart and/or clever.
07:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the Romans thought it was most likely due to theft
07:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they didn't understand the flow through a pipe
07:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Frontinus/De_Aquis/home.html
07:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they invented plumbing even though they didn't fully understand it
07:39 PM {HD}: I think I am going to plumb with pex... 😱
07:44 PM roycroft: well this is encouraging
07:44 PM roycroft: i got the timing gear off of the transmission shaft in the mill, and it looks like something i can probably replace
07:45 PM roycroft: plus, the shaft of transmission is m12 with a 4mm keyway, which is the same as the broach and collar i purchased a while back for the handwheel on my thicknesser
08:59 PM Tom_L: that'll save ya $100
08:59 PM roycroft: yes, but now i'm having trouble finding gears that will work
09:00 PM roycroft: if i could figure out what the current timing belt is and get a longer one i could modify the existing motor gear
09:00 PM roycroft: but i can't find any belts like what i have
09:01 PM XXCoder: 3d print em ;)
09:01 PM roycroft: a timing belt?
09:01 PM XXCoder: kidding, but can you make one?
09:01 PM roycroft: if i had a working mill i might be able to make the gears
09:01 PM roycroft: but i don't
09:02 PM roycroft: btw, the aurora borealis will be visible as far south as washington state tonight
09:02 PM roycroft: i don't know how far south in washington
09:02 PM roycroft: nor whether you have any cloud cover
09:02 PM XXCoder: gears I wonder if you could make them by this method - drill lot of small holes that match size to belt teeth, then lathe it down to size
09:02 PM roycroft: but it might be worth taking a look outside late tonight
09:02 PM XXCoder: its raining here now
09:02 PM XXCoder: might clear later dunno
09:02 PM roycroft: yes, it will clear later
09:03 PM roycroft: but "later" might mean june
09:03 PM XXCoder: ah time to start forgetting what color roads etc is when dry
09:03 PM roycroft: and yes, i could make the gears by hand
09:03 PM roycroft: but it would take tens of hours to make them decently
09:04 PM XXCoder: i found something interesting few days ago, rose machine
09:04 PM roycroft: rose machines are neat
09:04 PM XXCoder: its how you can make fancy patterns in old times
09:04 PM roycroft: i'd like to have one
09:04 PM XXCoder: and its 3d printable
09:04 PM roycroft: but i don't have $10k-$90k to spare
09:04 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/rotary/mount/Rotary_mount_path.jpg
09:04 PM Tom_L: dry run looks good
09:04 PM XXCoder: heh ui looks like windows 95 forgot that
09:05 PM XXCoder: i guess its more important to update engine than ui
09:05 PM Tom_L: the software is probably that old too :)
09:05 PM Tom_L: tried and true so i keep using it
09:06 PM XXCoder: roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmDqBDoYQ_U
09:06 PM Tom_L: i did the model in catia though
09:07 PM XXCoder: roy some of stuff is wood, some 3d printed, some bought stiff
09:07 PM XXCoder: i guess maybe thoyusand dollar at most?
09:08 PM XXCoder: catina v5 looks like its from 2000s
09:08 PM XXCoder: maybe 2005s
09:09 PM XXCoder: it looks like similiar as freecad, just different actions for same
09:10 PM roycroft: that looks like a neat design, but i don't see a change gear system on it
09:15 PM roycroft: although it would be incredibly noisy, at this point i might consider a chain drive for the mill
09:16 PM Tom_L: probably stretch more than a belt
09:16 PM Tom_L: wear quicker
09:17 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, you mean catia v5?
09:17 PM Tom_L: it was used up until a year or 2 ago then they went cloud based
09:18 PM Tom_L: 6 (they call it something else) isn't as good
09:18 PM Tom_L: especially if your server goes down
09:27 PM XXCoder: roy probbaly more backlash too i think for chain
09:28 PM XXCoder: tom jeez :( cloud isnt always best
09:38 PM roycroft: that does not matter, xxcoder
09:38 PM roycroft: this is for power transmission, not motion control
09:39 PM Tom_L: you can't find belts/pulleys to fit?
09:39 PM roycroft: so far, no
09:40 PM roycroft: the belt is ~14.5mm wide, and the pitch is 5.8mm
09:40 PM roycroft: i can't find anything remotely like that
09:40 PM XXCoder: true, you dont plan to do taps right?
09:40 PM roycroft: not immediately
09:40 PM XXCoder: or just use it with that special collet that "floats" tap tool
09:41 PM roycroft: there has to be more timing gears on the market than what i'm finding, but i apparently don't know the magic incantation to get the search engines to show them to me
09:42 PM roycroft: and i find it hard to believe that this particular gear pitch is *only* made by sieg for their gear
09:42 PM roycroft: nobody does that - they design for off-the-shelf components whenever posssible
09:42 PM XXCoder: possible, for market lock in
09:42 PM roycroft: i'm not even sure this is a sieg thing
09:42 PM roycroft: it may be a grizzly thing
09:44 PM mrec_: ok I have the situation again where the 3d view is not updating with linuxcnc 2.9, does anyone have experience with the 3d view and axis?
09:44 PM mrec_: I need to click into it and drag the window around -- then it will update
09:44 PM roycroft: it's a sieg thing
09:45 PM roycroft: the same gears work on the grizzly, hf, sieg, woodstock intl, and other versions of the x3
09:46 PM roycroft: now that i have easy access to all sides of my mill, i'll set the new motor up and see if there's any way it can install with the shaft in the same position as the existing motor shaft
09:46 PM roycroft: if i can figure out a way to do that i can use the existing belt, and just modify the motor gear
10:03 PM roycroft: aah, the "old style" timing belt, which i have, is a 1/4" pitch, which i suspected may be the case
10:04 PM roycroft: there is a newer style that is 5mm pitch
10:04 PM roycroft: if i can find the gears for that, those belts are pretty common
10:17 PM roycroft: i think i'm close to finding something that will work
10:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just found this in a box, used once, original batteries still in box https://www.imagesupply.com/products/k-sun-labelshop-bee3-ez-shrink-tube-label-printer?variant=1013503235
10:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ** Item discontinued and replaced with Epson LW-PX350 - Click Here **
10:36 PM XXCoder: MOS
10:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: do it use the same labels as the Epson?
10:36 PM XXCoder: **NOS
10:39 PM roycroft: the epson shrink label printers were k-sun products originally
10:39 PM roycroft: i'd say there's a chance the labels will work
10:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: looks like some do and some don't
10:41 PM roycroft: https://www.imagesupply.com/collections/best-selling/products/ksun-203stbw
10:41 PM roycroft: https://www.alliedelec.com/product/epson-label-works-px/203stbwpx/70676771/
10:41 PM roycroft: you tell me if you you think they will work
10:43 PM roycroft: the part numbers are even almost identical
10:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.imagesupply.com/collections/k-sun-bee3-ez/products/ksun-205stbw
10:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Not Compatible with Epson LW-PX700, LW-PX800 or LW-PX900 printers
10:44 PM roycroft: that's odd
10:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: info might not be 100% accurate
10:46 PM roycroft: the old epson part number - 205stbwpx - is compatible with the lw-px700
10:47 PM roycroft: the k-sun stuff is old and discontinued, though
10:47 PM roycroft: and costs the same as the current epson labels
10:47 PM roycroft: so for me, i'd never use them
10:47 PM roycroft: but i think the epson labels will probably work with the k-sun printer
10:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: huh, wax ribbon
10:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we worked on thermal inkjet inks to replace wax ribbon
10:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 8ft of shrink wrap in the cartridge is $25-30ea
10:49 PM roycroft: i used to have a tektronix laser printer that used a wax-based toner
10:49 PM roycroft: the color prints were gorgeous
10:49 PM roycroft: they are expensive
10:50 PM roycroft: the epson label printers will retract the shrink tube after cutting, so you can have a 4mm margin
10:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: laser or wax inkjet?
10:50 PM roycroft: which really saves a lot of tubing
10:50 PM roycroft: wax laser
10:50 PM roycroft: the toner was wax micropellets
10:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: adding a 5V power port to my Dymo printer
10:52 PM roycroft: i guess it's actually not either laser or inkjet
10:52 PM roycroft: they called it laser
10:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what model #, recall?
10:53 PM roycroft: but the official name of the technology was "solid-ink"
10:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tek made wax inkjet that used wax sticks as well
10:53 PM roycroft: it was a phaser, but i don't remember the model number
10:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah those are high temp inkjet
10:53 PM roycroft: it could handle b size paper and had a duplexer
10:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solid wax ink at room temp
10:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: liquid ink at 90C
10:55 PM roycroft: it's one of my favorite printers
10:55 PM roycroft: even though it weighed a ton
10:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: inkjet tech evolved, slowly
10:57 PM roycroft: i'm pretty happy with my current machine
10:57 PM roycroft: a konica c220
10:57 PM roycroft: it's small, but perfect for a home office
10:58 PM roycroft: i don't have the fax option, but i also am using a vfax service these days, so that doesn't matter
10:58 PM roycroft: and i don't have a finisher
10:58 PM roycroft: but i rarely need one
10:59 PM roycroft: and, i was able to get rid of three other printers when i bought it, so it's saving space
11:02 PM roycroft: cool, i have found some gears that i think will work
11:02 PM roycroft: i'm not going back out to the shop tonight, but i'll do some final measurements tomorrow
11:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: looks like i can refill the old shrink film cartridges
11:18 PM roycroft: epson sell bulk printer media as well
11:19 PM roycroft: i don't know if they would work on your printer
11:20 PM roycroft: personally, since the printer has the rewind feature, i don't think the cost of the cartridges is out of line
11:20 PM roycroft: 8' of shrink tubing is a fair amount if there's no waste
11:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I can fill with shrink tube and wax ribbon
11:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: don't see an rfid inside the cartrdige
11:22 PM roycroft: that sounds like $30 worth of work every time :)
11:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 25 cents a foot for shrink tube
11:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i can slit wider wax ribbon to 1/2 in.
11:24 PM roycroft: now we're talking $45 worth of time to refill
11:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: $2.50 per refill in lower volume
11:25 PM roycroft: i would probably never try refilling a cartridge
11:25 PM roycroft: but if you do, let me know how it went
11:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 1000% markup to list price sounds about right
11:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it will work, you just have to do it
11:26 PM roycroft: it probably costs at least $1 to manufacture the cartridge itself
11:26 PM roycroft: and there is some kind of rfid chip or something in the cartridge, because when you plug a cartridge in the printer knows what you inserted
11:26 PM roycroft: so that's probably another $1
11:27 PM roycroft: there may be close to $5 in manufacturing cost
11:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: shrink tube in 250ft lengths is $0.15/foot
11:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: this printer is dumb
11:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'm sure Epson added the RFID
11:29 PM roycroft: this shrink tubing is not like what i usually use
11:29 PM roycroft: it's folded in half and hard creased
11:29 PM roycroft: it's thinner than most that i've used, and more flexible than most that i've used
11:30 PM roycroft: i should think you would need to get pretty much the same stuff if you want to refill
11:30 PM roycroft: the rfid chip may be why the k-sun cartridges say they won't work in the current epson models
11:31 PM roycroft: which makes it more likely that the current epson cartridges will work in your printer