#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 03 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

02:54 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROK6iR9f2Rc&t
03:03 AM CaptHindsight[m]: LinuxCNC on Orange Pi One
03:12 AM XXCoder: http://image.auction.co.kr/itemimage/1f/6f/4f/1f6f4fc296.jpg
03:12 AM XXCoder: looks like this
03:12 AM XXCoder: tiny lol
03:29 AM XXCoder: https://m.tb.cn/h.fWSoMTL?sm=bd8f61
03:29 AM XXCoder: found it again finally lol
05:00 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:24 AM Tom_itx: morning
05:28 AM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
05:50 AM t4nk_freenode: heh, CaptHindsight[m] ... thought about buying a pi4.. saw one, went to have a shower and decided I'd buy it
05:50 AM t4nk_freenode: ... gone ;)
05:51 AM XXCoder: you washed out on chances lol
05:51 AM t4nk_freenode: hehe...
05:52 AM t4nk_freenode: oh btw, XXCoder .... i did glue those 40mmX15mm pieces of wood together into a larger board
05:53 AM t4nk_freenode: and I tried to plane it a bit yesterday... by hand... it grabbed hold of me twice ;)
05:53 AM XXCoder: lol
05:56 AM t4nk_freenode: but all in all it's amazing. and since my cnc is a drive through... I can theoretically make 30cmX4m planks
05:57 AM t4nk_freenode: I got a whole bunch of thicker beams lying around, I could make a cabinet or a piece of furniture from it
05:58 AM t4nk_freenode: but uh..... I'm currently printing a concept-dust shoe... :b
05:58 AM t4nk_freenode: it won't be luxury
05:58 AM t4nk_freenode: man what a mess.
05:58 AM XXCoder: lol
06:18 AM t4nk_freenode: well, I found another pi, 8G, bought it with a power supply
06:18 AM t4nk_freenode: see if I can get linuxcnc to work
06:18 AM t4nk_freenode: :b
06:18 AM XXCoder: :)
12:02 PM roycroft: hi, folks
12:02 PM roycroft: my mill has a 3/4hp motor, and i'll be replacing it
12:03 PM roycroft: i have an otherwise suitable motor in stock, but it's 2hp
12:04 PM roycroft: i don't mind upping the motor power on a machine somewhat, and was thinking about a 1hp motor for the mill already, but would 2hp likely be a bad idea?
12:04 PM enleth: what type of mill is that?
12:04 PM roycroft: it's a sieg x3
12:04 PM roycroft: mill/drill
12:05 PM enleth: won't hurt, might help
12:05 PM roycroft: the motor i have is brand new, inverter rated, mountable without too much trouble, and the right speed
12:05 PM roycroft: the controller board was damaaged a few months ago on my current setup
12:06 PM roycroft: i had it repaired, and it lasted a month, and last night failed again
12:06 PM Tom_L: if it's heavy you may consider a counterbalance on Z
12:06 PM enleth: if you install a VFD later, the higher nominal power might help getting torque out of it at low speeds
12:06 PM roycroft: i'll install a vfd right away
12:06 PM roycroft: that's one reason for the swap
12:07 PM enleth: then go for it, you'll benefit at low speeds
12:07 PM roycroft: i can't control the spindle with linuxcnc with the current setup
12:07 PM roycroft: the z is already too heavy
12:07 PM Tom_L: make sure the vfd is compatible with lcnc or you may have to write a driver for it
12:07 PM roycroft: and i've already thought about a counterbalance when i do the cnc conversion, so that i don't have to mount a giant motor for the z
12:08 PM roycroft: i'll get a huan yang, which is what i use for my other 3 phase stuff
12:08 PM roycroft: and that's pretty well supported with linuxcnc
12:08 PM Tom_L: good
12:08 PM enleth: I've seen people install gas springs in Sieg mills and report success
12:08 PM roycroft: when i got the controller board repaired the guy told me the motor might be bad
12:09 PM roycroft: i decided to give it a go, and if it fails again, i'll just replace the motor and controller
12:09 PM roycroft: i hate the current setup anyway
12:09 PM roycroft: the controls are on the side of the mill at the top of the column
12:09 PM roycroft: i have to reach up there every time i use it to turn it on and adjust speed
12:10 PM roycroft: i'd much rather have a control panel in the front
12:10 PM roycroft: and now i can
12:10 PM roycroft: i bought this 2hp motor years ago for my belt grinder project, but then decided i'd rather have a 3hp motor for that
12:11 PM roycroft: i'm just concerned that the spindle gears/bearings aren't rated for a 2hp motor
12:11 PM roycroft: having better lower end torque would be nice, for sure
12:11 PM roycroft: i just don't want to rip the spindle apart
12:12 PM roycroft: but i do like the idea of being able to fix the machine for $150, and that it will be not just a fix, but a major improvement
12:12 PM roycroft: when i got the board repaired i said, and intended, that i would sort out the long-term solution and machine the mounting plate for the motor before the current set up died again
12:13 PM roycroft: and i was getting ready to do that, but i guess i should have done it immediately
12:13 PM roycroft: now it's going to be hard to make a mounting plate
12:13 PM enleth: bearings will be fine, gears can be replaced with properly rated toothed belts
12:13 PM roycroft: i figure i'll end up making two
12:13 PM enleth: when, if, they break
12:13 PM roycroft: the motor to spindle drive is already belt drive
12:14 PM roycroft: but the spindle has a high/low transmission, and that's geared
12:14 PM roycroft: with the vfd that may not be necessary
12:14 PM roycroft: and i may be able to bypass the transmission
12:15 PM enleth: is the 1:1 gear clutch-coupled or gear-coupled?
12:15 PM roycroft: anyway, i'll end up making a temporary mounting plate with a drill press and a lot of filing, and once it's working again make a proper mounting plate using the mill
12:15 PM roycroft: gear-coupled
12:15 PM enleth: Bridgeports use a dog clutch for 1:1 and gears for 1:9, for the exact reason you're worried about
12:16 PM roycroft: the belt drive is going to be interesting
12:16 PM roycroft: the motor shaft is 5/8", and the spindle transmission shaft is m12
12:17 PM enleth: roycroft: you can install a switch that senses the current gear and adjusts the VFD configuration to protect the gearbox in 1st gear
12:17 PM roycroft: so i'm going to have to find a belt drive that has both metric and us customary bores available
12:17 PM Tom_L: you may wind up reaming your own
12:17 PM Tom_L: i had to
12:18 PM roycroft: although i do have a lathe, so i could bore an m12 hole to 5/8"
12:18 PM enleth: roycroft: many VFDs allow for several motor profiles and can be configured to switch them by the means of a digital input
12:18 PM roycroft: enleth: that might be interesting, if i need to do that
12:18 PM roycroft: i'm not sure if the huan yang can do that
12:19 PM roycroft: and i have several of those same vfds already, so i'm likely going to stick with that
12:19 PM roycroft: it cuts down on the cost of sparing
12:20 PM enleth: my bridgeport (as most do) has a second gear that reverses spindle roration, so I'm using that feature to adjust the VFD's notion of CW/CCW depending on the gear
12:20 PM roycroft: the hardest part of this, i think, is going to be boring the hole for the motor flange
12:20 PM roycroft: it's fairly large, and i'll have to do it on a drill press with a hole saw
12:20 PM enleth: as well as the multiplier for displayed RPMs
12:20 PM roycroft: and i'll be using 1/4" steel for that
12:21 PM enleth: roycroft: what VFD model is that?
12:22 PM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm/143729805142
12:24 PM roycroft: one nice thing about that vfd is that i can mount the vfd wherever it's convenient, and just locate the control panel on the front of the mill
12:28 PM roycroft: sweet
12:28 PM roycroft: the vfd is on sale on amazon, and since it's october, i get 5% cash back on amazon if i use my discover card
12:29 PM roycroft: i need to go measure to make sure that the motor i have will reasonably fit, and then i should be ready to go
12:30 PM roycroft: i like that this is a cheap fix, as i need the mill to make parts for the cnc router, and i don't have budget to repair the mill, and would be taking money from the cnc router budget to pay for the repair
12:30 PM enleth: roycroft: some INVT models also do this
12:30 PM enleth: anyway, I don't see motor profiles in the manual
12:31 PM roycroft: i don't think the huan yang supports multiple motor profiles
12:31 PM roycroft: but i really do want to stick with that brand
12:31 PM enleth: still, you could get linuxcnc to readjust limits over rs485
12:31 PM roycroft: i have a spare 5hp model
12:31 PM roycroft: my belt grinder is 3hp
12:31 PM roycroft: i can swap a 5hp vfd in for any of the others if one fails
12:32 PM roycroft: yeah, and the huanyang supports rs485 control
12:32 PM roycroft: a big reason i picked that vfd in the first place is that it's easy to control with linuxcnc
12:33 PM roycroft: if the existing motor shaft is m12, and i think it is, i should be able to bore the belt pulley to 5/8" easily
12:33 PM roycroft: although i would need to recut the keyway after
12:34 PM roycroft: i guess that's opportunity to get another broach
12:34 PM roycroft: not that i'm looking for tooling opportunities right now
12:34 PM roycroft: i guess it's time to do some measuring
12:35 PM roycroft: including weighing both the old and new motors to figure what the weight difference will be
12:35 PM roycroft: i'm not going to deal with a counterweight or gas shock or anything right now, so the z may just be a lot harder to operate
12:36 PM roycroft: when i do the cnc conversion, that will be the time to counterbalance the z
12:42 PM Tom_L: z doesn't need much speed as far as feed, i went with a 3:1 ratio on it and has plenty of torque
12:51 PM roycroft: mine is already 2:1, which makes things interesting
12:51 PM roycroft: it's like the opposite of a lathe cross-feed - one revolution of the dial reads 0.100" travel, but it really only travels 0.050"
12:52 PM roycroft: it's still tiresome to do "manual rapids"
12:52 PM roycroft: when raising it
12:52 PM roycroft: some kind of counterbalance would be useful even in manual mode
12:53 PM roycroft: the only reason i haven't done it is that i've always planned on doing a cnc conversion, and wanted to wait until i did that work
12:53 PM roycroft: i wasn't expecting the cnc conversion to take over 10 years, though
12:58 PM Tom_L: make a pendant for it and that will simplify manual mode
12:59 PM Tom_L: i cut lots of stuff manually
12:59 PM roycroft: i'm talking about pre-conversion
12:59 PM roycroft: once it's converted the handwheels will be gone
12:59 PM roycroft: and i'll let the z motor worry about moving it
12:59 PM Tom_L: they're just clothes hooks anyway
01:00 PM roycroft: i think i have a spare remote panel for a huangyang already
01:01 PM roycroft: and there are remote panel housing files on thingiverse
01:01 PM roycroft: so this should be a pretty easy conversion, other than making that mounting plate without having a mill
01:03 PM roycroft: anyway, it's time to go measure to see if the motor will reasonably fit
01:04 PM roycroft: i was looking at bldc motors because they're smaller in diameter than standard 3 phase ac motors, but i did not like the idea of using a different type of controller
01:04 PM roycroft: and i really don't like the idea of buying a new motor when i have a likely suitable brand new motor sitting here
01:28 PM roycroft: fitting that motor is going to be interesting
01:29 PM roycroft: it hangs down too low, so i'll have to relocate it, which means an l-shaped mounting bracket
01:30 PM roycroft: i thought about mounting it upside down, so it is sticking up,but it would hit the garage door track when i raise the z more than about halfway
01:30 PM roycroft: not to mention having to build some sturdy standoffs to support it
01:31 PM roycroft: but the belt pulley on the current motor is m12, so that should be adaptable to 5/8" pretty easily
01:55 PM solarwind: Hi all, what's the cheapest way to "paint" a concrete floor to help with dust control?
01:55 PM solarwind: I just want a smooth surface to make it easier to sweep up saw dust. I don't think I'll be driving the car into the garage
02:03 PM MrSunshine: c
02:06 PM roguish[m]1: solarwind: there are some pretty good epoxy paints just for garage type floors. also, lots for heavy duty industrial floors.
02:20 PM Roedy- is now known as Roedy
03:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: how long do you want it to last?
03:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: cheap oil based alkyd and add some japan drier
03:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the more you prep the floor, the longer it will adhere
03:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: with an alkyd you can mop over it with solvent to clean and spread it out again every few months/years
03:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: no smoking while the solvent dries
03:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/armor-coat-alkyd-porch-and-floor-paint-0489710p.html
03:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: even lower priced https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/armor-coat-grey-porch-floor-paint-946-ml-0489722p.html?rrec=true#spc
03:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh sorry that is the 1L
04:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: well quart
04:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/contractor-grade-porch-floor-paint-grey-1-gallon-0489772p.html?rrec=true#spc
04:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: epoxy will be 2x the price
04:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and won't last any longer unless you prep properly
04:19 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:46 PM Tom_L: acid wash the floor first
05:15 PM XXCoder: theres new #crafting channel if you guys is interested in it
05:15 PM XXCoder: its about making things, from many ways from 3d printing, cnc, expoxy etc
06:22 PM roycroft: what a hassle this motor is turning out to be
06:23 PM roycroft: if i hang it down like the current one is it will interfere with the mill table because it's a lot longer than the current motor
06:23 PM roycroft: if i have it stick up it interferes with my garage door track, although i think i can work around that
06:23 PM roycroft: but i have to figure out how to mount it and be able to adjust it
06:23 PM roycroft: it's flange mount, so that's kind of a hassle
06:27 PM roycroft: i spent an hour trying to pull a t-post, and broke my t-post puller again
06:27 PM roycroft: i had a temporary fenced in area about 15 years ago that i took down, and this was the last t post - it proved difficult to pull before
06:28 PM roycroft: i finally dug down to see what was happening, and it was firmly embedded in a giant root from a large cedar tree
06:28 PM roycroft: so i ended up cutting it off at the top of the root
06:28 PM roycroft: but i've broken my t post puller three times trying to pull that one, with more robust repairs each time
06:29 PM roycroft: i think it was easier to pull excalibur out of the stone than to pull this t post
06:37 PM Tom_L: roycroft 0 cedar 1
06:38 PM roycroft: i'm sure the root was tiny when i drove the post in all those years ago
06:38 PM roycroft: there's no way i'd have been able to drive it down through a big root
06:38 PM roycroft: but yeah, i lost that one
06:39 PM Tom_L: maybe wasn't even there then
06:39 PM roycroft: it may not have been
06:39 PM roycroft: but roots don't normally grow around things and embed them
06:39 PM roycroft: they usually bypass them
06:39 PM roycroft: but i can't claim to be able to speak for trees and how they decide to behave
06:55 PM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/wDt05bF4iAs
06:56 PM XXCoder: make your own injection mold machine
07:26 PM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/isVQMHmzHNo nice one. hidden screws of precision
07:26 PM XXCoder: i downloaded that first known mic 3d model can 3d print it
07:27 PM XXCoder: 1776. none known before it, and no designs based on it afterwards, though theres something similiar now with mics
07:38 PM roycroft: if i swap locations of my lathe and my mill i won't have to worry about headroom for the motor, and i've thought about moving the lathe to where the mill lives befor
07:38 PM roycroft: i'd just need to convert the circuit for the mill to 240v
07:39 PM roycroft: but that's not a big deal
07:40 PM roycroft: there are heaps of reasons that it would be good to swap the two, not even considering the headroom issue that has recently cropped up
07:40 PM XXCoder: man i love that channel
07:40 PM roycroft: and the only drawback is that it is a lot of work moving those things around
07:45 PM Tom_L: you seem to be one that doesn't mine alot of work
07:46 PM Tom_L: besides, you can clean around them while they're moving :)
07:57 PM roycroft: i just cleaned around the mill when i pulled it out a month ago to replace the controller board
07:57 PM roycroft: but i can do some tidying up underneath the lathe
07:58 PM roycroft: and while i don't look forward to a lot of work, i also don't avoid it when it is necessary
07:58 PM roycroft: i would love it if life were easy
07:58 PM roycroft: but it's not
07:59 PM roycroft: my mill sits against a wall right now, and i need access to the back of it occasionally
08:00 PM roycroft: my lathe sits in the middle of the shop right now, and i never need access to the back of it, although when i replace the motor i shall
08:00 PM roycroft: but that's not going to happen for a while if i can help it
08:01 PM roycroft: when i pulled the mill out a month ago i pondered moving the lathe at the same time, but was kind of pressed for time and did not
08:01 PM roycroft: i was kind of stressed about the country fair election then, and getting the mail merge to work
08:01 PM roycroft: that's all behind me now
08:03 PM roycroft: i think i want to keep the 120v circuit where the mill lives, so i'll have to see if i have enough wire to pull a new 240v circuit there
09:20 PM skunkwor1s: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipM7fjQXXH8FymsGOjJw9FhiEYEp16-HjcouCMsBWgQksYf9tW2e5ZFwCw3FM7gYuQ?key=RzNoeUdRM1FkdDRBOUplSDFhSHVKemtZVHUyY3Vn
09:21 PM skunkwor1s: https://photos.app.goo.gl/WZicf2CX75uLtunGA
09:21 PM skunkwor1s: should be the same thing...
09:22 PM skunkwor1s: https://photos.app.goo.gl/zwsLrHd75kLdTVTf7
09:22 PM Tom_L: nice big cutter
09:25 PM skunkwor1s: only 10 inches...
09:25 PM Tom_L: putting a new surface on the press table?
09:27 PM skunkwor1s: https://photos.app.goo.gl/k4cqduLo8BiCgHFw9
09:27 PM skunkwor1s: yes - it was a bit used.. (from a school..P
09:27 PM Tom_L: not bad :)
09:27 PM skunkwor1s: we are selling it - but wanted it to look a bit better.
09:28 PM skunkwor1s: we got it for the tilting table on the back side - mine didn't come with it..
09:28 PM skunkwor1s: it is the consumer version of our drill press.. So the table isn't quite as nice..
09:29 PM skunkwor1s: not perfect - but better
09:30 PM skunkwor1s: this is the better table.. http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20210330_195316.jpg
09:30 PM skunkwor1s: coolant troughs and such
09:33 PM skunkwor1s is now known as skunkworks
09:34 PM skunkworks: hey
09:34 PM skunkworks: there we go
09:34 PM Tom_L: you notice a new mesaflash released?
09:34 PM skunkworks: I heard them talking about it..
09:34 PM skunkworks: not tried it
09:34 PM Tom_L: didn't know if you kept up on those or not
09:34 PM skunkworks: it is hit or miss... lol
09:35 PM Tom_L: same here, i don't need it but like to stay fairly current if possible
10:31 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] thanks for the info
10:31 PM solarwind: Unrelated, but going through the spec sheets of the generac portable generators shows how horribly inefficient small engines are
10:32 PM solarwind: the bigger ones have > 2x the efficiency of the small ones
10:34 PM CloudEvil: If big ones are 'inverter' - that's not really a fair race.
10:34 PM solarwind: They're not
10:34 PM solarwind: the small ones actually have an inverter and are still half the efficiency
10:34 PM solarwind: I'm making a spreadsheet to generate normalized kWh/L data
10:45 PM CloudEvil: Do they have output graphs?
10:45 PM solarwind: what the hell, the regular carburetor 8kW models have 0.65L/kWh efficiency
10:45 PM solarwind: No, I'm making a spreadsheet based on the spec sheet
10:46 PM solarwind: the 8kW EFI models do 0.8L/kWh
10:46 PM solarwind: why is the EFI model _worse_?
10:46 PM solarwind: the 17.5kW model is the most efficient
10:46 PM solarwind: This is all based on their 50% rated load run time spec
10:47 PM solarwind: the diesel one actually is the most efficient at 0.56L/kWh
10:47 PM solarwind: but that doesn't seem like much with the best gasoline one at 0.65L/kWh
10:48 PM XXCoder: skunkworks: nice
10:48 PM XXCoder: is it mill then grind or just mill?
11:00 PM solarwind: Wow that's pathetic. A bigger engine with a carb vastly outperforms a much smaller engine with an inverter
11:01 PM solarwind: Even when the inverter is optimizing RPM to keep the engine under load
11:02 PM solarwind: The tier 4 diesel one is of course the way to go for efficiency at the expense of weight, much more noise, and cost
11:05 PM solarwind: But for the ones with the same engine, the variable speed inverter models are definitely more efficient
11:15 PM skunkworks: XXCoder: probably maybe touch it with some sand paper.\
11:16 PM skunkworks: I don't think our grinder is big enough..
11:16 PM skunkworks: plus there is nothing flat on it.. we used the pole to tram it
11:27 PM XXCoder: interesting. ok'
11:27 PM XXCoder: i remember that guy using former surface as sanding surface
11:27 PM XXCoder: by just covering it with sndpaper
11:28 PM XXCoder: while it lost grade, its still extremely flat compared to most stuff
11:47 PM roycroft: my main surface plate, which i use for almost all layout work, is grade 2, and it's 18x24"
11:48 PM XXCoder: 2 interesting
11:48 PM XXCoder: all I see is A and B
11:48 PM roycroft: but i also have a 12x18" grade 0 that i use to glue abrasive sheets to for making things flat and sharp
11:48 PM roycroft: oh, there's both an alphabetic system and a numeral system
11:48 PM XXCoder: only other ratings I know of is AA and failed
11:48 PM roycroft: grade 2 is shop grade
11:48 PM roycroft: grade 0 is inspection grade
11:48 PM roycroft: grade 1 is toolroom grade
11:49 PM XXCoder: ok