#linuxcnc Logs

Sep 30 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:29 AM Deejay: moin
01:37 AM TurBoss: morning
01:37 AM hazzy[m]: Morning
05:01 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:01 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:24 AM JT-Cave: morning
07:39 AM Loetmichel: hehe, just checked. Can confirm: 0.3mm thick black UV resin for the elgoo mars is IR permeable enough to reduce the IR remote range of the TV less than 30% :)
08:34 AM JT-Cave: Honda Insight map update done... only took 4 hours
10:41 AM perry_j1987: mornin
10:42 AM roycroft: hello
10:42 AM perry_j1987: found myself in a coffee shop in Minnesota this mornin lol
10:43 AM * roycroft has not eaten inside a restaurant since the beginning of the pandemic
10:43 AM roycroft: fortunately most of the places where i like to go have outdoor tables, and tents with heaters in the rainy season
10:45 AM perry_j1987: not a single mask in sight here
10:46 AM perry_j1987: pandemic hasnt made it this far aparently heh
10:49 AM roycroft: i'm sure it has
10:49 AM roycroft: but people who care may not have made it that far
10:50 AM roycroft: oh well, i guess the people who complain about it the most and claim to want it to end the most are the same ones who are intentionally prolonging it
10:51 AM roycroft: and speaking of tribalism and division
10:52 AM roycroft: when i research estop wiring for a cnc router, about half the articles say to kill the power to anything that moves, and the other half say to wire the estop to the bob or whatever sends signals to the motors/spindle and let that signal the drivers to stop
10:53 AM roycroft: it makes it really hard to get it sorted, as neither side like to explain why they do what they do
10:54 AM perry_j1987: wire to a contactor for the main building power supply :)
10:54 AM perry_j1987: kill it all
10:54 AM roycroft: i want to keep linuxcnc running if i mash the estop
10:55 AM roycroft: i know i will keep power running to the pi and the mesa board
10:55 AM roycroft: i'm just not sure what to do beyond that
10:56 AM perry_j1987: ya keep power going to linuxcnc and set it up so it knows the estop is triggered so it can stop trying
10:58 AM roycroft: this is what confuses me
10:58 AM roycroft: my motors will run on ~48vdc
10:59 AM roycroft: i know i should not cut power to the motors after the drivers
10:59 AM roycroft: but some folks tell me that if i kill the 48v input to the drivers it will damage the drivers
11:00 AM JT-Shop: depends on the driver
11:03 AM roycroft: i'm using gecko drivers
11:03 AM roycroft: 201x
11:03 AM roycroft: i also will kill the spindle, and my plan was to just kill the mains to the vfd
11:03 AM perry_j1987: is there an enable pin on the drivers
11:03 AM JT-Shop: you can't hurt them :) I use 203v
11:03 AM roycroft: there's a disable pin
11:04 AM roycroft: jt-shop: they are supposed to be very bullet-proof
11:04 AM JT-Shop: yea no problem killing the mains to the vfd
11:04 AM perry_j1987: what if you tie into that to disable the drivers through their built in mechanism
11:04 AM JT-Shop: they are bullet proof!
11:04 AM roycroft: that's why i paid the extra money for them
11:04 AM perry_j1987: JT-Shop even when you feed them 203v? :P
11:04 AM roycroft: my brain is not bullet-proof
11:04 AM roycroft: i was actually able to get one of my power supplies to put out 58v
11:04 AM roycroft: which is nice
11:04 AM roycroft: i'm not sure i want to run it at its max
11:05 AM roycroft: but if i dial it down to 54v i'll still be able to move things a lot faster than 48v
11:05 AM roycroft: and if i'm not satisfied with performance in the end, i can always get a 72v ps
11:05 AM JT-Shop: stepper power supply voltage = speed and power
11:05 AM perry_j1987: less cost in copper too the higher voltage
11:06 AM roycroft: but since this is not going to be a production machine, i'm not all that concerned about sped
11:06 AM roycroft: speed
11:06 AM roycroft: i thought it was amps = power and volts = speed
11:08 AM JT-Shop: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Formulas
11:08 AM roycroft: perry_j1987 i'll look into toggling the disable pin in the drivers - that was already in my plan (i can do that with linuxcnc), but for my peace of mind i'd feel best if 48vdc immediately turned into 0vdc when i mash the estop
11:09 AM JT-Shop: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Mechanical_Spreadsheet
11:09 AM JT-Shop: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Motor_Speed_Limitations
11:09 AM roycroft: my plan, btw, is to *never* have to mash the estop
11:09 AM JT-Shop: all good information
11:09 AM roycroft: thanks
11:09 AM perry_j1987: i've still never had to use an estop
11:09 AM roycroft: actually, my plan is to mash it once
11:09 AM roycroft: or may be a very few times
11:10 AM roycroft: just to make sure it does what it's supposed to do
11:10 AM * JT-Shop has yet to finish this part and lunch minute is almost here
11:10 AM roycroft: and i'll do that mashing while the motors are still sitting on the bench
11:10 AM roycroft: my mesa board is out for delivery today
11:10 AM roycroft: a whole day before the usps intentionally slows down mail delivery
11:15 AM JT-Shop: I try and get to the po before the truck leaves for the dist center as that saves a day in transit
11:16 AM JT-Shop: part done time for lunch
11:16 AM roycroft: well they're intentionally adding at least a day to deliveries starting tomorrow
11:17 AM roycroft: all part of the "improvements"
11:53 AM * JT-Shop listens to Sam the Sham & the Pharaohs
11:54 AM roycroft: if the rpi does not work out for me for my router, i might end up getting a laptop for it
11:54 AM roycroft: would something like this be a good fit?
11:54 AM roycroft: https://eugene.craigslist.org/syd/d/eugene-dell-e5470-laptopintel-core-i5/7384954155.html
11:55 AM roycroft: assuming it has an ethernet port, which is not specfied in the ad (but no ads i've looked at list ethernet, even when it's there)
11:56 AM JT-Shop: generally laptops are not good for real time due to hardware power saving "features"
11:56 AM JT-Shop: sometimes you can find one that allows you to turn all that off...
11:56 AM roycroft: even with the mesa ethernet card?
11:56 AM roycroft: a lot of the commercial cnc routers are run from laptops
11:57 AM roycroft: but perhaps they use specific models where the power saving stuff is disabled or not present
11:57 AM JT-Shop: they might not have real time step generation
11:57 AM JT-Shop: or have special laptops
11:58 AM roycroft: one of the reasons i got the mesa board was to not have to worry about real time stuff so much
11:58 AM JT-Shop: better to find a small footprint pc
11:58 AM JT-Shop: you won't need as good of latency with the mesa card but you can't have the laptop stopping to take a nap...
11:58 AM roycroft: i am still planning on getting the rpi to work
11:59 AM roycroft: yeah
11:59 AM roycroft: that particular ad is from a guy who flips/refurbishes laptops for a living
12:00 PM roycroft: he should be somewhat tech savvy, so if i ask him if the power saving features can be disabled he might actually know what i'm talking about and might be able to answer
12:00 PM roycroft: the ps for my laptop will be here tomorrow, though, unless the postal service slowdown delays it
12:00 PM roycroft: and i should have a better idea then if x forwarding is going to work or not
12:01 PM roycroft: i'll just hold off until then before making contingency plans
12:08 PM roycroft: a pc is the last thing i want to consider, though
12:09 PM roycroft: whatever the user interface for the machine is, it needs to be able to disappear completely when i'm not using the machine
12:10 PM JT-Shop: unplug the ethernet and power and put away
12:13 PM roycroft: sure, but that would mean computer, display, keyboard mouse
12:13 PM roycroft: four things
12:13 PM roycroft: a laptop is one thing
12:13 PM * roycroft will just plan on getting x forwarding working properly
12:37 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:37 PM roycroft: i'm not sure i want to use machinekit
12:37 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by copper.libera.chat
12:37 PM roycroft: right now i just want to test x forwarding with my linux laptop :)
12:38 PM Eric_: you don't want to use machinekit. I'm not sure they got the network part to work fully
12:38 PM Eric_ is now known as unterhausen
12:47 PM unterhausen: seems like it was a good idea, too bad they took the idea of a branch a little too literally
12:47 PM roycroft: all i know about it is that it exists, and that it's a spinoff of linuxcnc
01:00 PM papagno-source: Greetings to all.Ivrei need help with ToolEtit.tcl.
01:00 PM papagno-source: I use the TKLINUXCNC graphical interface.
01:00 PM papagno-source: To change the tool value, recall from the TOOLEDIT menu.
01:00 PM papagno-source: When I modified a value in the table, I am costing to press the Save button to ToolEtit and select the Reload Tool Table item from the TK menu.
01:00 PM papagno-source: If you use the AXIS graphical interface, another key appears in ToolEtit: Reload Table.
01:00 PM papagno-source: Very comfortable and safe, with a single key you save the file and recharge the table values.
01:00 PM papagno-source: My operator forgot to update the table with TK and has crasks.
01:00 PM papagno-source: Could you help me change ToolEt.tcl so that the reload button appears even with non-axis interfaces or to create a new dedicated tool?
01:07 PM unterhausen: I don't know if there are any tktcl developers left
01:07 PM unterhausen: maybe ask in linuxcnc-devel
01:08 PM rs[m]: papagno-source: i think you would have to change tklinuxcnc
01:25 PM JT-Shop: Dewey is the only tktcl developer I know of, you can ask on the forum he sometimes answers there
01:27 PM papagno-source: ok thanks
01:36 PM roguish[m]: JT-Shop: good morning JT. hey, when you rigid tap on your BP, 38.1?, do you use a totally rigid tap holder, or a springy type?
01:39 PM JT-Shop: on the BP 308 and knee mill I use a rigid holder, I do have a floating tap holder for the 308 but have never used it
01:40 PM JT-Shop: having said that the G84 tapping cycle is for a floating tap holder only
01:41 PM JT-Shop: so I use G33.1
01:43 PM Tom_itx: as do i
01:43 PM Tom_itx: nice t-storm blew thru this am
01:45 PM roguish[m]: and g33.1 works oki with the rigid?
01:45 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
01:45 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, get all your wood chopped before the rain?
01:46 PM roguish[m]: that G84 has a dwell at the bottom.........
01:46 PM Tom_L: i think it's intended for a tap holder
01:46 PM JT-Shop: g33.1 works perfectly with a rigid holder, just understand how it works
01:46 PM roguish[m]: Tom_itx: what kind of holder do you use?
01:46 PM Tom_L: you just gotta make sure you calculate the pitch right
01:46 PM JT-Shop: g84 has no spindle sync...
01:46 PM Tom_L: solid holder
01:46 PM JT-Shop: I use tap collets
01:47 PM Tom_L: roguish[m], https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV7crK24eCE
01:49 PM roguish[m]: Tom_L: how is the spindle controlled?
01:49 PM Tom_L: not sure what you mean
01:49 PM roguish[m]: VFD?
01:49 PM Tom_L: oh yes
01:50 PM Tom_L: encoder feedback from the spindle is used on the G33.1
01:50 PM roguish[m]: ok. that's what I have too. guess i'll try it. like the wood test........safe.
01:51 PM JT-Shop: try butter second... air first
01:51 PM roguish[m]: ha ha....
01:51 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, yes I finished that tree Tuesday
01:52 PM JT-Shop: roguish[m], I'm not kidding about the air part
01:52 PM roguish[m]: i have done the air test looks ok
01:52 PM JT-Shop: ok
01:52 PM roycroft: if you're unsure about the wood test, try the butter test
01:52 PM JT-Shop: the main thing to remember about g33.1 is you must pre-position the tap before g33.1
01:52 PM roycroft: or the marshmallow test
01:52 PM roguish[m]: and the peanut gallery chimes in....
01:53 PM JT-Shop: peanuts would not work well
01:53 PM roycroft: the giant gummi bear test might not work out so well
01:53 PM roycroft: if you try the jello test you will be able to see what it's doing
01:54 PM roguish[m]: you guys are too much.
01:55 PM Tom_L: yeah if i'm unsure, i cut air the first time too
01:59 PM Tom_L: also
01:59 PM JT-Shop: I wonder if my duo-mite will bend 3/16x1 mild steel... the 11ga press break fractured the corner as the bend radius is too sharp and getting near the box and pan brake reminds me of roycrofts description of his shop
01:59 PM Tom_L: in 2.8 G33.1 added rapid retract
01:59 PM Tom_L: so it will come out of the hole faster than the regular feedrate
02:00 PM JT-Shop: I - optional spindle speed multiplier for faster return move
02:00 PM JT-Shop: not a rapid
02:00 PM Tom_L: it's a multiple number and i'm not sure i plan to use it much
02:00 PM JT-Shop: if you ran a production shop we might use it...
02:00 PM Tom_L: right
02:00 PM Tom_L: i did try it
02:01 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL2zajQw2Rg
02:01 PM JT-Shop: is L2 twice the commanded spindle speed?
02:01 PM Tom_L: hard to tell visually, more a sound change in the spindle
02:01 PM JT-Shop: last day of the month so watching videos is ok
02:02 PM JT-Shop: I can tell the spindle speed changing
02:02 PM Tom_L: L on what gcode?
02:02 PM JT-Shop: g33.1
02:02 PM Tom_L: i don't see L
02:02 PM Tom_L: I is the multiplier
02:02 PM JT-Shop: is it i
02:02 PM Tom_L: and 2 would be 2x
02:03 PM Tom_L: so use small numbers :)
02:03 PM Tom_L: i tried larger numbers and the steppers wouldn't keep up
02:04 PM Tom_L: i used 1.xx something
02:05 PM JT-Shop: just tried it with the sim
02:06 PM Tom_L: do you do much tapping?
02:06 PM Tom_L: i noticed you got the copy lathe done
02:08 PM roguish[m]: hey bright sun shiny day https://g1.ipcamlive.com/player/player.php?alias=5e863c6e0e66d
02:09 PM JT-Shop: from time to time depends on what I'm making, I keep 1/4-20, 5/16-18 and 3/8-16 taps and drills in holders
02:09 PM JT-Shop: yeah and he wants me to start on the next one
02:09 PM Tom_L: roguish[m], where is that?
02:10 PM JT-Shop: gotta finish the spoke lathe first and work in some cad work for the plastic factory
02:10 PM Tom_L: i thought you retired :)
02:10 PM roguish[m]: that is from the deck of the St. Francis Yacht Club,
02:10 PM JT-Shop: duo-mite says 1/8 x 1 max so I guess it's time to clear a path to the box and pan brake
02:11 PM JT-Shop: looks like a rough place to land a yacht...
02:12 PM roguish[m]: https://www.google.com/maps/place/St.+Francis+Yacht+Club/@37.8073805,-122.4475035,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x808586d351f1a75b:0x5699be1e5e16f0ff!8m2!3d37.8072079!4d-122.4468284?hl=en
02:52 PM miss0r2: Earlier today I was handed a box with three schneider HMIGTO5310 (its a touchscreen HMI)... I don't have any PLCs running in my home, but I was wondering if you guys know of any other usages for these(cool hacks) whatever. Two of them have never been used.
02:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: miss0r2: they do a very good job of hiding what they actually are
02:58 PM miss0r2: what do you mean?
02:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's a display, touch screen and a controller of some sort
02:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: might be x86
02:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but you just get to know that it has some ports and a tool to configure a GUI
03:00 PM miss0r2: yeah
03:00 PM miss0r2: I use it as some sort of access controll :)
03:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_enDocType=User+guide&p_File_Name=EIO0000002339.02.pdf&p_Doc_Ref=EIO0000002339 page 18
03:01 PM miss0r2: yeah. it has a host of options
03:02 PM miss0r2: neither of which I am particular interrested in :)
03:02 PM miss0r2: but they were free... :D
03:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: IF you can see what it uses for a CPU then you might be able to replace the firmware a do what you wish with it
03:02 PM miss0r2: sounds like alot of work :D
03:02 PM miss0r2: I just looked up the new price... Damn
03:03 PM miss0r2: ~1700$us
03:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah I have a bunch of heidenhain CNC controllers
03:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes thousand of $ ea
03:04 PM miss0r2: holy... why they were throwing them out is beyound me :)
03:04 PM miss0r2: They all power up
03:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but I really don't have the time to dig into their software
03:04 PM miss0r2: same here
03:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: might be old models
03:04 PM miss0r2: wish I did, though
03:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or since they only work with their PLC's and similar they are of limited use as is
03:04 PM miss0r2: anyway, speaking of time. I have to call it a night.
03:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hasta banana
03:04 PM miss0r2: something something dark side... something some force..
03:05 PM miss0r2: See you around
03:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: only 14:50 here
03:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just getting started
03:05 PM miss0r2: 21:50 here, and I have a kitchen that looks like a grenade went off
03:05 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:05 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:05 PM miss0r2: Cya
03:12 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:16 PM JT-Shop: box and pan brake unblocked and part made
03:17 PM JT-Shop: only took an hour to get to it
05:11 PM XXCoder: interesting!
05:11 PM XXCoder: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-and-history/machinalia-boris-artzybasheff-272368/
05:11 PM XXCoder: boris liked to draw machines as people
05:22 PM JT-Shop: one more tiny part to make and one to remake
05:34 PM JT-Shop: rainy here for the next 5 days or so
05:34 PM XXCoder: same
05:36 PM t4nk_freenode: it's getting a bit colder out
05:37 PM XXCoder: yep. 50s f all week
05:39 PM t4nk_freenode: wearing a sweater since yesterday
05:41 PM JT-Shop: still warm for this time of year here, wearing my summer carhartt t shirt
05:54 PM * JT-Shop calls it a day
06:24 PM roycroft: it's starting to rain here
06:24 PM roycroft: it was supposed to be cloudy today, but no rain
06:25 PM roycroft: it's still tshirt weather here, though, but i've taken to carrying a jacket with me if i go out later in the day
07:04 PM roycroft: if this is not appropriate to discuss, that's fine, but what's the story with beaglebrainz?
07:04 PM roycroft: i see he used to post frequently on the forum, but now is blocked
07:08 PM roguish[m]: still 85 here
08:03 PM roycroft: my mesa board arrived
08:03 PM roycroft: i have almost everything i need to start testing the electronics
08:06 PM Tom_L: which one did you get?
08:13 PM roycroft: 7i96
08:15 PM roycroft: i was going to get a 7i76e, but jt suggested that the 7i96 might work fine, and i think he's right
08:15 PM roycroft: it's considerably less expensive
08:15 PM Tom_L: what's the difference?
08:15 PM Tom_L: i know the e is ethernet
08:15 PM Tom_L: what's the plain one?
08:16 PM roycroft: fewer pins
08:16 PM roycroft: i have a 7i76 for the mill already
08:16 PM Tom_L: but still ethernet?
08:16 PM roycroft: but i need ethernet for this application
08:16 PM roycroft: yes, the 7i96 has ethernet
08:16 PM Tom_L: k
08:17 PM roycroft: it will be fine - 5 axis stepper, 17 io ports
08:17 PM roycroft: and if i run out of pins i can add a daughter board
08:17 PM Tom_L: sserial?
08:18 PM roycroft: yes it has an rs-442/rs-485 port for expansion
08:18 PM roycroft: the big difference between the two is $80
08:19 PM roycroft: the 7i76e has 48 io pins
08:20 PM roycroft: i think what i have will work just fine
09:23 PM Rab_ is now known as Rab