#linuxcnc Logs

Sep 28 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:54 AM MrSun: https://snipboard.io/sWMFdx.jpg sensors like these, anyone know what they are named in english ? its a detector for small parts falling by them =)
01:01 AM XXCoder: can be serveral possiblities
01:01 AM XXCoder: metal induction detector foir example
01:01 AM XXCoder: it could be measuring tool, though i doubt that, that picture looks too old for laser measuring system
01:03 AM XXCoder: alternate would be weight sensor
01:03 AM MrSun: have to be very precise as the parts is very small
01:03 AM XXCoder: yeah. i have scale here that can go .001 gram
01:04 AM MrSun: feels like the vibrtions for the machine when it presses would set it off quite easily =)
01:05 AM XXCoder: hmm probably
01:06 AM Deejay: moin
01:06 AM MrSun: frame light barrier it seems would be a name for it as i find very many on that name =)
01:12 AM MrSun: yey found one for half the price of all others :P
01:12 AM MrSun: detects objects of 1mm .. should be enough =)
01:13 AM XXCoder: awesome
01:13 AM XXCoder: how much was cheapest?
01:13 AM MrSun: 380 euros aprox
01:13 AM XXCoder: ouch but then shop thats not too expenive
01:13 AM XXCoder: not when good endmill large one is double that
01:15 AM MrSun: rebuilding the control of an excenterpress with plc, encoder for infeed measurement and light barrier for part detection .. for full automation of the machine =) also thinking of replacing the compressed air feed for an servo feed mechanism insted =)
01:16 AM MrSun: so much lighter and would totaly get rid of the need of compressed air in the machine
01:18 AM MrSun: as its a used machine the membranes etc in the clamps is going wack and new ones cost more than a full servo system with drivers ... just for the frekkin membranes :P
01:18 AM XXCoder: lol ok
01:19 AM MrSun: industrial stuff that is ment to work 24/7 365 isnt cheap directly :P
01:20 AM XXCoder: of course
01:20 AM XXCoder: i worked at large prod shop for years
01:21 AM MrSun: but for a small business trying to get into the game on some corner its very hard earned money that goes into it =)
01:22 AM MrSun: bought tooling for aprox 35k$ this year .. that is all my income including what i would buy food for :P
01:22 AM MrSun: just to make a frekkin lamp holder :P
01:22 AM XXCoder: lol
01:24 AM MrSun: my competitors bought up the tooling for the lamp holders a couple of years ago ... let us order but never delivered what we ordered .. so controlling our sales in an very uggly way... so got tired of it and developed my own stuff =)
01:25 AM XXCoder: yeah. did they ever return money or what
01:25 AM MrSun: return money ?
01:26 AM XXCoder: yeah if you ordered and paid, but didnt get items?
01:26 AM MrSun: if we ordered 200 pieces, they delivered 200 lamp holders but only contacts for like 150 of them .. leaving us not able to complete our orders .. just saying that the tooling was broken etc .. each year but they kept selling stuff ..
01:27 AM MrSun: XXCoder, only got invoiced the actual amounts that they delivered so no money to repay for them .. but we lost customers all the time due to it .. not able to expand
01:27 AM XXCoder: jeez sounds like just bad shop
01:28 AM MrSun: been going on for years .. then i got tired of it and invested everything i got in crushing them to the ground :P
01:30 AM MrSun: only problem is that the gf will have leverage to get kids now ... sigh ... :P
01:31 AM XXCoder: oh well
01:32 AM MrSun: so, end of my rant =) thanks for getting me in the right direction with the sensor .. saved a hell of alot of money for me =)
01:32 AM XXCoder: no problem :) hopefully will work well
02:10 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:29 AM t4nk_freenode: I was in great doubt about what bits to buy.. still am ;) But I decided to just go ahead and test the single flutes I have on metal...
05:30 AM t4nk_freenode: for some reason my board started disconnecting from usb.. emi interference somehow
05:30 AM t4nk_freenode: it went away after I took out the hub and connected directly
05:31 AM t4nk_freenode: ... I let the flute run through 5mm thick alu.... I think it can work
05:31 AM t4nk_freenode: don't know how good this is for the flute.. I let it run without cooling
05:31 AM t4nk_freenode: but it doesn't seem to get so hot
05:32 AM t4nk_freenode: ordered some more bits online, ball-nose too, and some 2-flutes
05:33 AM t4nk_freenode: but the confusing part is that they never state what materials you can cut with the bits..
05:38 AM t4nk_freenode: anyhow, I made some holes, and a square pocket. the piece of stock looks like a battlefield after all the failed attempts
05:38 AM t4nk_freenode: but the bottom of the pocket is actually quite nifty, pretty smooth finish
05:39 AM t4nk_freenode: though there are some marks where I think the center passed
05:39 AM t4nk_freenode: maybe that's the overlap orsth
05:40 AM t4nk_freenode: I'll just wait for the new bits, and see how things go with those
05:45 AM t4nk_freenode: -----
05:46 AM t4nk_freenode: oh, and I tried to drill a hole through another bolt
05:46 AM t4nk_freenode: with the 3mm drill and I pushed through a bit faster
05:47 AM t4nk_freenode: .... so.. from the last attempt.. the piece of wood and bolts had become loose and wouldn't tighten anymore
05:47 AM t4nk_freenode: I decided to go ahead anyhow
05:47 AM t4nk_freenode: it went fine
05:47 AM t4nk_freenode: ...
05:47 AM t4nk_freenode: until the drill came out through the side somehow ;)
05:48 AM t4nk_freenode: lot of noise, and movement, I was too busy to try and shut the machine down..
05:48 AM t4nk_freenode: but the dril was spinning round the outside of the bolt
05:48 AM t4nk_freenode: not 'round', but along the outside
05:49 AM t4nk_freenode: hehe.. the whole damned carriage was wobbeling along, crazy sight
06:06 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:07 AM XXCoder: yo
06:28 AM JT-Cave: hmm I better get those logs I cut up Sunday cut into rounds and split and stacked today and tomorrow looks like rain after that for a while
06:47 AM snakedGT is now known as snaked
08:55 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:32 AM Eric_ is now known as unterhausen
09:32 AM unterhausen: second half of the 10 day forecast is rain for 5 days
09:39 AM roycroft: it should clear up here after today, and we're due for <1mm today
09:40 AM roycroft: things are starting to green up a wee bit
11:07 AM JT-Cave: if I can get all the rounds split and stacked today I'm taking tomorrow off
01:16 PM roycroft: are you about, jt-cave/shop/wherever?
01:52 PM JT-Shop: here for a moment
01:52 PM * JT-Shop is glad whirlpool didn't pick his quote!
01:52 PM JT-Shop: be back in 45 minutes
02:04 PM roycroft: ok, i'll catch up with you whenever
02:04 PM roycroft: nothing urgent
02:08 PM AlexLR784: Hi !
02:10 PM AlexLR784: When using LinuxCNC with a raspberry pi, do I have to use a mesa board to control motors ? or is there a cheaper way ?
02:16 PM roycroft: i don't know if you have to use a mesa board, but i don't think anything less expensive than a mesa board will likely work
02:19 PM AlexLR784: Thank you for your answer
02:22 PM roycroft: you can get a 7i96 for US$119, which should be fine if you're doing step/dir
02:22 PM * roycroft has one on the way that he will use with a rpi4
02:24 PM AlexLR784: I'm actually building a 6 axis robot with rc servos, that's not step/dir unfortunately
02:25 PM AlexLR784: I was wondering if I could control the signal pin of the servos directly from the Rpi
02:25 PM roycroft: there are servo controllers, but i'm not sure which would be the most cost effetive
02:25 PM roycroft: jt is a mesa reseller, and he should be back on-channel within a half hour or so
02:26 PM roycroft: he can probably point you to the best mesa board for your application
02:27 PM AlexLR784: Thank you, I'll try to see that with him
02:28 PM roycroft: it might be the 7i97, which is a lot more money
02:28 PM roycroft: but he'll be happy to advise you upon his return
02:46 PM * JT-Shop is back from town
02:47 PM JT-Shop: don't rc servos need pwm?
02:51 PM JT-Shop: there probably is some boards that are for rc servos
02:52 PM AlexLR784: Yes they need pwm
02:53 PM AlexLR784: They can probably be controlled via the raspberry pi itself, but I don't know how to assign the signal pins of the servos on linuxCNC
02:55 PM JT-Shop: I have no clue, that's above my pay grade
02:56 PM AlexLR784: That's alright, I'll keep looking :)
02:56 PM pcw-home: Pretty sure you could use a RPI directly for RC servos but the position resolution would be pretty poor
02:58 PM pcw-home: RC servos us a narrow pulse width range (1 to 2 ms typically an a 50 Hz frequency) for their full scale position range
02:59 PM pcw-home: this means that you would want a very high base thread rate to have many position steps in that 1 ms pulse width range
02:59 PM roycroft: jt-shop: just fyi, i attempted to contact epson about their software yesterday
03:00 PM pcw-home: a base thread rate of 100 KHz (10 usec) would only give 100 positions
03:00 PM roycroft: they did not respond to my email, so i phoned them this morning
03:00 PM roycroft: the sales person said "i don't know the difference between the lite version and the full version - just install it and see if it works"
03:01 PM roycroft: installing from the app store, i can't do anything with it until i install the correct driver and connect the printer to it
03:01 PM pcw-home: a RPI is probably limited to a 20 KHz (50 usec) or so base thread rate so only 20 settable positions
03:01 PM roycroft: i know you're not a mac person, but this demonstrates their customer service attitude
03:01 PM JT-Shop: sounds like a catch 22
03:01 PM roycroft: which would be a factor for anyone, regardless of platform
03:01 PM JT-Shop: yep]
03:02 PM roycroft: their printers do look a lot better than the brother
03:02 PM CloudEvil: pcw-home: It'snot
03:02 PM JT-Shop: so you can't even look at the software unless you have a printer?
03:02 PM CloudEvil: https://pythonhosted.org/RPIO/pwm_py.html
03:02 PM CloudEvil: forone
03:02 PM roycroft: i open it but i can't do anything with it until i connect the printer
03:02 PM roycroft: that's semi-understandable
03:03 PM roycroft: it needs to know the capabilities of the particular printer model before it offers me any menu choices
03:03 PM JT-Shop: I guess it configures itself for each printer?
03:03 PM roycroft: the brother software is the same way
03:03 PM roycroft: i can't format something until i choose the media size
03:04 PM roycroft: because it doesn't know how to format if it doesn't know the size
03:04 PM roycroft: i can't choose the media size until i connect the printer, because it doesn't know what sizes are available until it knows which printer i'm using
03:04 PM JT-Shop: they should have a demo mode...
03:04 PM roycroft: so i can kind of see what the software might do, but i can't really give it a test drive
03:04 PM roycroft: yes
03:05 PM roycroft: i want to know about fonts and symbols and justification and stuff
03:05 PM roycroft: i want to know how to feed a spreadsheet to the software
03:05 PM pcw-home: CloudEvil That would require porting that DMA driver to LinuxCNC and its still only 100 KHz so only 100 positions
03:05 PM roycroft: i guess my option, if i'm still interested in the epson, is to buy one on amazon, try it, and return it if it doesn't do what i need it to do
03:06 PM roycroft: but that's a hassle for me and for them
03:06 PM roycroft: and btw, there are third party shrink tube cartridges for the brother that are a lot cheaper than the oem ones
03:07 PM AlexLR784: pcw-home thank you for your insight ! That was helpful
03:10 PM JT-Shop: electrical supply houses usually have printers for wire...
03:33 PM roycroft: if i think i might have to return it i'd rather buy it on amazon than from a local supplier
03:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: be different, use color codes http://www.umarkers.com/Products/specialty-markers/u-phase-large.htm
03:44 PM roycroft: that seems mostly silly, however there is one good application for those markers
03:45 PM roycroft: when i buy sj cable for power cords, 3 conductor sj is only available (that i can find) with black, white, and green inner wire colors
03:45 PM roycroft: when i make a 250v power cable, i have to color the white wire red
03:45 PM roycroft: just at the ends, of course
03:46 PM roycroft: i usually use a red laquer pen or a red sharpie
03:46 PM roycroft: a piece of red electrical tape if i don't have either of the above handy
03:46 PM roycroft: that umark thing would be great for that
03:47 PM roycroft: but i prefer proper labels that can match documentation in a schematic diagram or cable plant database
03:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://nassaunationalcable.com/products/12-3-bus-drop-600v
03:52 PM roycroft: that still doesn't work
03:52 PM roycroft: it needs to be black, red, and green
03:52 PM roycroft: or black, not white, and green
03:53 PM roycroft: black, red, and white doesn't work
03:53 PM roycroft: actually, it would be ok for a split phase drop, if the bar copper wires are used for ground, but standard 4 conductor sj wire is already black, red, white, and green
03:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ground is bare
03:54 PM roycroft: sometimes
03:54 PM roycroft: sometimes it's green
03:54 PM roycroft: sometimes it's brown
03:54 PM roycroft: sometimes it's yellowish
03:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: uh huh
04:25 PM unterhausen: why does a bus drop cable have multiple grounds?
04:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: likely to have it be >the gauge of the other conductors and keep flexibility
04:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 12ga 6530 circular mil
04:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 3 x 16ga = 3 x 2583 = 7749
04:48 PM roycroft: i just talked to a different person at epson and they're sending me a printer to try
04:49 PM roycroft: and when i read the owner's manual, it looks like the built-in functions on the printer alone are enough to make it worth having, even if the 'lite' mac sofware does not work at all, but i anticipate it will work to some degree
04:55 PM roycroft: the real selling point of the epson line, btw, is that they will rewind the label material after cutting - margins can be as narrow as 4mm
04:56 PM roycroft: shrink tubing cartridges for every brand are really expensive
04:56 PM roycroft: the brother wastes a full 25mm on each cut
04:56 PM roycroft: that adds up fast, especially when printing labels that may be only 4-6mm wide
04:57 PM JT-Shop: wow that's much better service
04:57 PM JT-Shop: the epson cartridges have twice as much tubing as ptouch
04:58 PM roycroft: they're still expensive
04:58 PM roycroft: $31 for 9'
04:58 PM roycroft: and i know how to talk to sales people :)
04:59 PM roycroft: i was calling them on behalf of my business
04:59 PM roycroft: and i said that "we" are looking to replace our cable printing equipment
04:59 PM roycroft: which is true
04:59 PM roycroft: i did not say that our "cable printing equipment" currently consists of one printer
05:00 PM roycroft: i said that we currently have several brother p-touch printers, and were looking at the brother line for compatiblity, but think the epson may have a better feature set
05:00 PM roycroft: also true
05:01 PM roycroft: mentioning the competition usually gets sales critters interested
05:02 PM roycroft: and btw, those wrap-around labels for the panduit are also really expensive, and i'm almost out of two sizes
05:02 PM roycroft: i have a lifetime supply of big ones, but for small wire gauges i'm almost out
05:02 PM roycroft: which is one reason i've been thinking about a new printer
05:02 PM roycroft: consumables cost way more than the printer in the very short term
05:04 PM JT-Shop: yup
05:04 PM roycroft: the one they're sending me is the lw-px700, which goes for $115 if i buy it
05:04 PM roycroft: and ti
05:04 PM roycroft: and they're giving me a 20% off coupon, so it's really only $92
05:04 PM roycroft: the cartridges are $31.95 each
05:05 PM roycroft: i'll need two just to get started - one for 8-12ga, and one for 14-2ga
05:05 PM roycroft: 14-22ga
05:05 PM roycroft: by the time i buy a third cartrige consumables will have cost more than the device
05:06 PM roycroft: they also just sent me a link to the user's guide for the software
05:06 PM roycroft: i guess i got the wrong person the first time
05:06 PM JT-Shop: yep that happens
05:08 PM roycroft: the lite version doesn't let one do the fancy block editing that the full version does
05:08 PM roycroft: which is one of the really great features of the printer
05:09 PM roycroft: if you have a panel that you want to label, and the jacks or whatever are spaced x distance apart, you can set the printer up to print a strip of labels where each is centered over the jack/whatever, with a separator such as s | in between each one
05:09 PM roycroft: that can all be programmed on the printer itself, but it looks like it can't be done with the lite software on a mac
05:10 PM roycroft: for right now i'll only be using it with shrink tubing anyway, so that doesn't matter
05:10 PM roycroft: i'll use my p-touch printers for panel labels, at least until i run out of p-touch labels, which will be a while
05:13 PM JT-Shop: the 700 looks pretty cost effective, I might order one just because I can't get tubing for the kroy anymore and I'm out of smaller sizes
05:13 PM JT-Shop: but I'll wait for your report
05:13 PM roycroft: the 900 has the same features for over twice the price, but it supports 38mm labels, while the 700 only supports 24mm
05:13 PM roycroft: i'm fine with that
05:14 PM roycroft: i could not find any other feature differences other than media size
05:14 PM roycroft: oh, the 900 is a little faster
05:14 PM JT-Shop: yeah I don't need 38mm labels
05:14 PM roycroft: my older brothers only support 18mm
05:14 PM roycroft: the newest ones can handle 24mm
05:15 PM roycroft: and i rarely use anything wider than 18mm
05:15 PM roycroft: 9mm and 12mm are what i use most commonly
05:15 PM Nick-Shop: On Axis manual control (F3) what controls the rapid over ride bar. I want it at 0 or eliminate it.
05:15 PM JT-Shop: my hookup wire is 22 gauge for PLC's
05:15 PM roycroft: the brother would not work for you then
05:16 PM roycroft: their smallest shrink tube is 9/32", which would only shrink tightly on 20ga
05:16 PM JT-Shop: I use up to 12 gauge in panels usually for power
05:16 PM roycroft: but the epson will do 22ga
05:17 PM roycroft: for large cables, such as 6ga power cords and the like, i have a lifetime supply of wrap-around labels for the panduit
05:17 PM roycroft: and since i'll likely not be using the panduit for small labels any more, the printer should also last a lifetime
05:17 PM JT-Shop: it always cracks me up when I open a panel and see it wired with 14 ga and all the wires won't fit in the plc door
05:17 PM roycroft: i tend to use the appropriate wire size for the application at hand
05:18 PM JT-Shop: yep
05:18 PM roycroft: which does not mean using whatever i have laying around
05:18 PM JT-Shop: Nick-Shop, you should be able to set that in the ini IIRC
05:19 PM roycroft: and inside a panel, one uses a size smaller than in an exteral cable or conduit
05:19 PM JT-Shop: I keep a stock of 22 ga and 14, 16, 18 for power applications
05:19 PM roycroft: so 12ga can handle 30a inside a panel
05:19 PM roycroft: this is before any derating, of course
05:19 PM roycroft: you're an electrician, though, i don't need to tell you any of this
05:19 PM JT-Shop: I tend to oversize wire that has a load
05:20 PM roycroft: i derate intentionally, not as a matter of course
05:21 PM JT-Shop: somewhere I have a box marked square d homeline breakers... going to look again for it
05:22 PM roycroft: epson had a third-party test their labels, btw
05:23 PM roycroft: the shrink tubes test to 200c just fine before they losing image
05:23 PM roycroft: i cannot think of an application where i'd want to apply a label that can withstand that high a temperature
05:24 PM CloudEvil: I'd want to know the temp they lose image at 10000 hours at
05:27 PM roycroft: that would take a long time to test
05:28 PM roycroft: https://labelworks.epson.com/amfile/file/download/file/106/product/817/
05:28 PM roycroft: that's their in-house testing results
05:28 PM roycroft: https://labelworks.epson.com/amfile/file/download/file/37/product/818/
05:28 PM roycroft: the third-party test results
05:30 PM Nick-Shop: <JT-Shop> I figured that - what line or what are they calling the command for that
05:32 PM roycroft: oh, sorry, the shrink tubing only tested to 150c before label discoloration, although the text was still readable up to 250c
05:32 PM JT-Shop: Nick-Shop, you want it at 100% for no override
05:34 PM JT-Shop: odd I don't see a max rapid override setting
05:35 PM JT-Shop: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/gui/axis.html#_modify_rapid_rate_with_keyboard_shortcuts
05:38 PM * JT-Shop goes to make burger patties
05:39 PM Nick-Shop: <JT-Shop> that's why I having trouble. Thanks for the link. nuf for today
06:33 PM XXCoder: tried to do some yard work
06:33 PM XXCoder: then rain happened
06:33 PM XXCoder: removed peach tree regrow, small amount of nightale and blackberry vines
06:34 PM XXCoder: i planned to do a lot more
06:55 PM roycroft: it has stopped raining here
06:55 PM roycroft: for a few days, it appears
07:47 PM XXCoder: man love this channel https://youtu.be/tlH0xFCcO48
08:56 PM t4nk_freenode: seen some of those vids before
08:56 PM t4nk_freenode: too bad he only makes silly toys
08:56 PM t4nk_freenode: but I'd sure like some of his skills and equiptment
08:56 PM XXCoder: sure
08:57 PM XXCoder: he uses mill and such though
08:57 PM XXCoder: he shows setup and such too
08:57 PM t4nk_freenode: ... I skipped through the vid, but watched all of the lathe in action ;)
08:57 PM XXCoder: no mill lol
08:57 PM XXCoder: he used mill to flatten and parallize some stuff, as well as drill some spots
08:58 PM t4nk_freenode: musta skipped past that
08:58 PM XXCoder: really? its pretty good chunk of video
09:03 PM roycroft: joe pieczynski is a good machinist and a good instrutor
09:03 PM roycroft: instructor
09:04 PM XXCoder: yep
09:04 PM roycroft: i don't watch his videos much these days, but when i do i always learn from him
09:04 PM roycroft: i guarantee he does not just make "silly toys"
09:05 PM roycroft: but he uses those projects for his teaching
09:11 PM t4nk_freenode: heh, he didn't take any chances and centered and pre-drilled the holes
09:11 PM XXCoder: yep and made all faces equal in height
10:40 PM FinboySlick: XXCoder: Nice suggestion. He speaks with purpose.
10:41 PM XXCoder: welcome
10:41 PM FinboySlick: XXCoder: I'd offer the Crafsman, but it's a pretty different vibe.
10:42 PM XXCoder: thanks. looking
10:42 PM FinboySlick: I may suggest an episode to start with, it's a bit of an aquired taste.
10:42 PM XXCoder: yeah saw that one
10:43 PM XXCoder: seemed like a good channel, just not really subject im strongly interested on
10:43 PM FinboySlick: His injection molding experiments are what sold me.
10:44 PM FinboySlick: Learned a lot about epoxy casting too.
10:44 PM XXCoder: that was interesting, i saw videos on his 3d printed molds injection
10:45 PM JavaBean: does he do "epoxy granite"?
10:45 PM FinboySlick: No. He's more of an artsy type. Sculpts figurines, etc.
10:46 PM JavaBean: thanks
10:49 PM FinboySlick: Smoot, chill voice. Just relaxing to watch. I like the sillyness of it all too.
10:49 PM XXCoder: yeah
10:49 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/feeds/videos.xml?channel_id=UCzsjHlc0WRwZYwlinsmtM4w rss feed if you guys use it
10:50 PM FinboySlick: Interesting. I didn't know those still existed.
10:50 PM XXCoder: its bit tricky
10:50 PM XXCoder: I made a firefox/chrome plugin to get url from user page
10:51 PM XXCoder: i also made youtube export data to opml convertor
10:52 PM XXCoder: https://github.com/rredford/YouTubeDataToRSS and https://github.com/rredford/YouTubeRSS
11:14 PM perry_j1987: evenin everyone
11:15 PM XXCoder: yo