#linuxcnc Logs
Sep 27 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:15 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:22 AM Deejay: moin
05:39 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:44 AM hazzy[m]: Morning
09:45 AM Eric__ is now known as unterhausen
09:48 AM unterhausen: I guess there is no such thing as a travel adapter that goes from Nema 120v to Nema 240 v
09:50 AM unterhausen: actually, there is, but they are $14. Which seems a bit high
09:55 AM roycroft: a bit high? that seems pretty cheap to me
11:10 AM JT-Cave: customer just called they are super happy with the copy lathe I converted and said I can start on the next one as soon as I like
11:10 AM roycroft: nice
11:19 AM JT-Cave: lunch minute is up
11:26 AM unterhausen: I recovered some white oak from a cabinet (sadly had been painted pink) and there was some water damage, which is dark black
11:26 AM unterhausen: I'd like to turn all of it black, but I don't really want to use ammonia
11:26 AM Connor: Why not?
11:26 AM Connor: That's the go-to method.
11:26 AM unterhausen: the water worked great
11:27 AM Connor: Probably takes longer.. Did it penetrate all the way?
11:27 AM unterhausen: is the only advantage of ammonia the speed? It looks like it was wet for some time
11:28 AM Connor: Ammonia colors the wood all the way through..
11:28 AM unterhausen: cool, okay ammonia it is
11:29 AM roycroft: unterhausen: you can also try the steel wool and vinegar method
11:29 AM Connor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVgWrYThdxI
11:29 AM Connor: Take a look at my pale, Mark's video on it.
11:30 AM roycroft: take a steel wool pad, make sure it's oil and soap free (acetone will remove the oil, and rinsing in warm water will remove the soap), soak it in a jar of white vinegar until it's mostly broken down, then filter it into a clean jar through a coffee filter or something similar
11:30 AM roycroft: the resulting liquid will almost instanly blacken wood that contains high amounts of tannins, such as white oak
11:31 AM roycroft: and ammonia will not color the wood all the way through, but it will penetrate better than most dyes and all stains
11:32 AM roycroft: household ammonia will take so long you'll probably give up
11:32 AM roycroft: but industrial ammonia, such as used to develop blueprints, works pretty well
11:32 AM roycroft: it turns the wood brown, though, while the iron vinegar method will blacken it
12:18 PM solarwind: Hi all, does anyone know of a supplier of industrial water cooled induction motors?
12:22 PM solarwind: Standard NEMA induction motors in the 10-30kW range would be nice
12:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: How many do you need per year?
12:37 PM solarwind: Just one to prototype with and if that goes well, about 10/year
12:43 PM solarwind: https://www.baldor.com/catalog/ECR9154T their "crusher duty" motors seem to be priced similar to their general purpose ones but have a 1.25 service factor rating as opposed to 1.15. They also have a much higher "max speed" rating almost double the nominal speed.
12:43 PM solarwind: Almost double the weight, but that doesn't matter for me. Looks like they're built much tougher and somehow not any more expensive than their regular ODP motors
12:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Bearing Grease Type Polyrex EM (-20F +300F)
12:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: easy enough to water cool, just make a block
12:55 PM solarwind: I have a cartridge of Polyrex EM
12:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I bet it is slippery
12:56 PM solarwind: All greases have oil separation, so I keep this in a dedicated grease gun in a sealed bag
12:56 PM solarwind: I have to stir the cartridge before using it since I lubricate the bearings every few months
12:57 PM solarwind: They really need to come up with a way to stir the grease inside the grease gun
12:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.baldor.com/api/products/ECR9154T/drawings/09LYL575
12:57 PM solarwind: Because the only practical way to store grease guns is with the pump side downwards so the oil doesn't leak out of the spring end
12:58 PM solarwind: But then you end up with too much oil in the top part and too much thickener in the bottom part. There's just no winning
12:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I keep mine in a champagne fermentation rack. They get automatically rotated
12:58 PM solarwind: I have to take the cartridge out, stir it manually and then degas it in a vacuum chamber
12:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.vigoltd.com/Catalogue/Disgorging-dosage/Automatic-riddling-machines
12:59 PM solarwind: It's a non issue if you go through a cartridge every day or so in an industrial environment, but a hobbyist doesn't use anywhere near that much grease
12:59 PM solarwind: Polyrex EM is expensive so can't have it lose all its oil :(
12:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://psuwineandgrapes.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/riddling.jpg old manual way
01:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: cut all the fins off the iron body, make an aluminum water block that the motor slides into
01:01 PM solarwind: ODP motors have a smooth body
01:02 PM solarwind: But yeah I could do that. Should be able to push the motor harder
01:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the iron body will slow down the time constant
01:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so if you need faster response make a new body out of aluminum
01:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-metals-d_858.html
01:08 PM solarwind: https://www.baldorvip.com/Drawing/ACPerformance?productNumber=ECR91004TR-4&url=http%3a%2f%2fusmghwebapps.baldor.abb.com%2fmotors%2fsoftrepo%2fwebsite%2fac%2fA40WG0454-R002.pdf
01:08 PM solarwind: I may not need to bother. Even at 500% full load current and 300% full load torque, it can easily sustain that for more than a minute
01:09 PM solarwind: damn, these things are built insanely tough
01:09 PM solarwind: This is the 100hp crusher duty model, but I'm just browsing
01:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: drip cool with liquid nitrogen
01:11 PM solarwind: 500% full load current for 60s is still well below thermal limit at 40ºC ambient temperatures
01:11 PM solarwind: That's impressive
01:11 PM solarwind: Of course insulation class F isn't the best available, so insulation lifetime will suffer, but I doubt it'll be an issue
01:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: set up a fan farm https://media.wired.com/photos/59548ac98e8cc150fa8ec379/master/pass/GettyImages-56196238.jpg
01:12 PM solarwind: It can do > 800 ft•lbs torque and still costs less than a new powerstroke turbo diesel
01:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just needs a longer cord
01:13 PM solarwind: 1,400 lbs isn't obscenely heavy either
01:14 PM NoGodDamnIdea: hey guys
01:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: howdy
01:17 PM solarwind: Looks like these things can easily scale well past their design power with linear torque
01:18 PM solarwind: Well that settles it. Looks like I know exactly what kind of motor is going in my Allis Chalmers forklift restoration project
01:20 PM solarwind: It'll be smaller than the existing engine block (which still runs fine but it's old and inefficient) and easily couple to the existing drive shaft
01:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: better than a steam engine
01:22 PM solarwind: Or is it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVxByLO_6cA
01:23 PM solarwind: I don't know why people bother with crazy boosts on their diesel engines for tractor pull competitions when you can just put a huge gear reduction and be done with it
01:35 PM CloudEvil: It's not static tyre.
01:36 PM * roycroft doesn't understand why people bother with crazy things such as tractor pull competitions :)
01:46 PM roycroft: my power supplies finally arrived
01:52 PM unterhaus: I think some mice are chewing on the cable that goes to my modem
01:55 PM roycroft: if you put a braided stainless steel sleeve over the cable that will slow them down
01:57 PM unterhaus: it's a bit late for that, fully buried in the ceiling of my shop
01:58 PM unterhaus: I'm running a new cable rn. Probably won't armor this one either
01:58 PM unterhaus: if mankind could harness the energy from cables getting tangled, we could power the world for free
02:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: my neighbors
02:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: honestly it is because they are monkey see, monkey do. It's group think vs having a grasp of sciences and engineering.
02:11 PM * JT-Shop wonders how you loose something as big as a pair of log tongs...
02:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://ntpapull.com/publications/ntpa-rulebook
02:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Auxiliary transmission will be permitted.
02:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: https://c8.alamy.com/comp/E721DA/tractor-pulling-puller-with-4-jest-engines-pullers-four-internal-combustion-E721DA.jpg
02:24 PM unterhaus: I always thought it was funny that stock farm tractors could pull more than the heavily modified ones
02:29 PM unterhaus: apparently using vinegar and ferric solution is called ebonizing, not fuming
02:29 PM unterhaus: maybe I should have searched for "turning oak black"
02:30 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, choppin wood today?
02:34 PM unterhaus: okay, back in the attic to straiten out some tangled wire
02:45 PM t4nk_freenode: yeah, JT-Shop, I went really slow and used wd-40 on the tap. I guess I could have snapped the tap easily if I wanted to, but all in all I must say it went very smooth. Gave me to think actually... all these rpms and violence with a drill bit are 'necessary', but the tap did clear out material too, and without violence.. it even made me look at the 'steel' as actually being soft material.. if a tap can do that
02:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hardness is relative
02:47 PM t4nk_freenode: ohyeah, and I guess that's what 3.2mm drill bits could be for, to give it that extra size to ease the tap
02:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: a wood tap goes through butter, like itself
02:50 PM t4nk_freenode: the tap must have resembled a knife through butter I guess
02:51 PM NoGodDamnIdea: anyone here from europe got screws for sale?
02:52 PM NoGodDamnIdea: I need a bunch of different ones
03:01 PM roycroft: there are these places called "stores" where such items can often be procured
03:02 PM roycroft: m3.2 is the correct drill for an m4 tap hole
03:02 PM roycroft: is that what you're doing, t4nk_freenode?
03:03 PM t4nk_freenode: if I had bought a 3.2mm drill, yes. I just saw them at the hardware store, but at the time I didn't know what to use it for yet
03:05 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, moving a few logs from the ground hornets so I could get the hoe out
03:06 PM * hazzy[m] uploaded an image: (4282KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/WjIaAxMIQaMAyWFUngpOccDk/ima_e078179.jpeg >
03:06 PM hazzy[m]: damn it! 😂
03:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: been in that situation once
03:08 PM hazzy[m]: Unfortunately I’ve been in this situation far more than once lol
03:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: step 5) solder wires to terminals.............................................................. after running cable through collar
03:09 PM roycroft: next time you want to tap a hole, look up the proper tap drill size before you go to the store
03:09 PM hazzy[m]: at least these aren’t soldered
03:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hazzy: nice looking connector, what brand?
03:10 PM roycroft: don't take this as anything but constructive criticism, t4nk_freenode, but when it comes to working with metal, it's not like working with wood - you can't just play around and expect things to work out ok
03:10 PM roycroft: wood is a lot more forgiving
03:10 PM roycroft: with metals, you need to have the proper tooling to get things done, so a bit of research before you start a job would be a good idea
03:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: would I or wood eye?
03:11 PM t4nk_freenode: I think I'm starting to develop an interest now... I had a taste, but I want more
03:12 PM roycroft: and even the charts/calculators require a bit of understanding, and should not be followed blindly
03:12 PM roycroft: for example, that m4 hole you're trying to tap
03:12 PM roycroft: in mild steel you need an m3.2 drill
03:12 PM hazzy[m]: CaptHindsight: i’m not sure what brand, it came with a BEI sensors encoder
03:12 PM roycroft: for aluminium or brass you might get away with m3.1
03:12 PM roycroft: maybe even m3.0, if you're really careful
03:13 PM roycroft: but if you're tapping stainless steel, you may need an m3.3 to avoid serious frustration
03:13 PM roycroft: if you drill the hole oversize like that, your thread fit will not be as good
03:13 PM roycroft: but you will have a better chance of not breaking the tap
03:13 PM t4nk_freenode: heh
03:14 PM roycroft: you should always start with the recommended size - m3.2 in this case
03:14 PM JT-Shop: the thread fit will be the same, just less engagement
03:14 PM roycroft: experience will guide you on how to adjust that for different materials/conditions
03:14 PM roycroft: ok, yes
03:14 PM roycroft: the thread fit will be the same
03:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.physics.wisc.edu/ishop/tapdrillchart.html I lie this chart since it says Physics on the top
03:15 PM roycroft: but it will not have the same holding ability
03:15 PM roycroft: feeds, speeds, and clearances are very important when machining metal
03:15 PM roycroft: they are important, but more forgiving, when machining wood
03:16 PM JT-Shop: hmm I can't make a 1.250" part from a 1.2445" blank :(
03:16 PM roycroft: sure you can
03:16 PM roycroft: get it hot and upset it
03:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: machining wood should not even be in this channel, the dust gets everywhere
03:17 PM roycroft: well this will be ok
03:17 PM roycroft: i bought two power supplies
03:17 PM roycroft: i need one, but the price was good, so i got a spare
03:17 PM roycroft: one works
03:17 PM roycroft: the other does not
03:18 PM roycroft: if the seller does not have a replacement i guess i get half my money back
03:18 PM roycroft: one way or another
03:18 PM roycroft: the seller only has 47 feedbacks, which violates my rule of >100
03:18 PM roycroft: but it's 100% positive, and they were not expensive
03:18 PM roycroft: so i took a chance
03:21 PM JT-Shop: if I upset it then it would not be 0.500" thick any more...
03:22 PM roycroft: unless you upset the length
03:22 PM roycroft: in which case it will be shorter
03:23 PM roycroft: or is 1.25" the length?
03:23 PM roycroft: if so, then leave it outside in the rain for a few weeks and it will measure >1.25" long
03:23 PM roycroft: be sure to remove any traces of oil before you do so
03:24 PM roycroft: or spray weld the ends
03:25 PM roycroft: you can build up the ends quickly with that method
03:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT-Shop: you could plate the part
03:26 PM JT-Shop: much easier to just grab the stick of stock from the rack and cut another piece and toss the other one in the McCoy's box
03:26 PM roycroft: or powder coat it
03:26 PM roycroft: do many/most of you put your spindle vfds inside the same enclosure as the rest of the electrics?
03:31 PM roycroft: and on another, but semi-related note, does anyone have a recommendatino for a good, but not too expensive, shrink tube printer?
03:31 PM roycroft: i've been using a nice panduit cable printer for years and years, but i get tired of applying the label and the having to put clear shrink tubing over it
03:31 PM JT-Shop: I put my noisy GS2 in the other enclosure just because it was empty after removing Anilam
03:31 PM roycroft: one of the ones that prints directly on the tubing would be great
03:32 PM JT-Shop: I have one but they went out of business so you can't get supplies any more
03:32 PM roycroft: i don't mind putting it outside the primary enclosure, but because of the dust i would need to put it in a filtered, ventilated enclosure
03:33 PM roycroft: i would not feel good about just mounting it inside the router table cabinet
03:33 PM roycroft: yes, one that has supplies currently available would be nice :)
03:33 PM roycroft: there several in the $100-$300 price range, and then some in the $1k and up range
03:33 PM roycroft: i'd prefer to stick to the lower end of the $100-$300 range
03:34 PM roycroft: and i don't think i mind if it's not hand-held
03:34 PM roycroft: if it needs a computer and usb cable, that would be fine
03:58 PM roycroft: sweet
03:58 PM roycroft: brother make label printers that handle shrink tubing as well as their standard p-touch labels
03:58 PM roycroft: i have several p-touch printers, and a buttload of label cartridges
03:59 PM roycroft: so that may be the best way to go
04:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: use your laser market/cutter
04:09 PM roycroft: i am currently looking at this: https://www.amazon.com//dp/B00L9Y3UX0
04:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: laser mark the shrinky dink, slide over wire, apply heat
04:29 PM JT-Shop: just don't drop the p touch e550w, if you think you might drop it look at the epson lw-px900 which offers more colors of heat shrink tubing
04:29 PM JT-Shop: LW-PX900 into a rugged body that meets MILSPEC drop test specifications
04:32 PM roycroft: the epson does not have decent software for mac os
04:32 PM JT-Shop: epsom heat shrink cartridge is twice as long as p touch
04:32 PM roycroft: and i also have a large investment in tz labels for my other brother printers
04:32 PM JT-Shop: I have 2 p-touch printers and only need one
04:32 PM roycroft: the epson looks like a better printer, but i'm concerned about software for it
04:33 PM roycroft: i have four or five p-touch printers
04:33 PM roycroft: i wish brother had a desktop printer that handled the shrink tubing
04:33 PM roycroft: but they don't - just hand-held
04:34 PM roycroft: i'll look at the epson some more
04:34 PM JT-Shop: https://labelworks.epson.com/downloads
04:34 PM roycroft: my main concern is that their mac software is a watered-down version
04:34 PM JT-Shop: looks like it has a lite edition for a mac
04:34 PM roycroft: and i don't know what that entails
04:34 PM JT-Shop: download it and try it
04:34 PM roycroft: the printer looks nicer than the brother
04:35 PM roycroft: and while being able to use both my tz labels and shrink tube labels in the same machine might be nice, i have plenty of p-touch machines already
04:35 PM roycroft: my panduit label printer only prints cable labels
04:35 PM JT-Shop: yep me too
04:35 PM roycroft: the epson would be the same
04:35 PM JT-Shop: I can't get tubing for my kroy any more
04:35 PM roycroft: i'm not buying one today
04:36 PM JT-Shop: me neither but you made me look lol
04:36 PM roycroft: i have a huge investment in label cartridges for the panduit, but they're mostly large labels
04:36 PM roycroft: i'm running low on the smaller sizes
04:36 PM roycroft: and if i'm going to have to buy labels for this next build, i might as well look into a machine that prints on shrink tubing directly
04:37 PM roycroft: especially since my panduit is close to 20 years old now
04:37 PM JT-Shop: panduit is wrap type?
04:37 PM roycroft: it could die any time
04:37 PM roycroft: yes
04:37 PM roycroft: it's been a great machine
04:37 PM roycroft: i've printed thousands, probably tens of thousands, of labels on it
04:38 PM JT-Shop: I should drill some studs and run some wire in the garage
04:38 PM roycroft: https://www.cdw.com/product/Panduit-PanTher-LS8E-Hand-Held-Thermal-Transfer-Printer-and-Accessories-l/2050584
04:41 PM roycroft: labels are expensive for the panduit too
04:41 PM roycroft: but i must say, i use them on fiber optic cables that sit in utility vaults and get covered with mud and water for years, and they are still legible when we pull them out
04:42 PM XXCoder: high end, roy
04:43 PM XXCoder: though for business its probably usual
04:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001885576145.html laser marked dragons on shrink film
04:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you already have the laser marker
05:17 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:30 PM roycroft: well that was interesting
07:31 PM roycroft: i was just visiting my dentist for a crown prep
07:31 PM roycroft: they do not make impressions any more
07:31 PM XXCoder: hows they do it now?
07:31 PM roycroft: they have a hand-held 3d scanner that they use now, and she told me that they don't make molds and castings at the lab
07:31 PM roycroft: they send the file to the lab and the lab machines the gold directly on a cnc mill
07:32 PM roycroft: i bet they don't use flood coolant on that mill
07:32 PM roycroft: or blast it with air
07:33 PM solarwind: "It also provides wear protection and prevents corrosion." on the label of a jug of oil for my air compressor. Literally the job of every oil ever made.
07:35 PM XXCoder: interesting. i bet its very controlled cnc shop because of value of gold
07:36 PM XXCoder: i still remember seeing miliary grade gold capped capactor chips bag. in room with big bag of it is miliary guy and bored coworker
07:36 PM XXCoder: must have 2 person in room with batch being made
07:37 PM roycroft: they still had to take an impression for the temporary filling
07:37 PM roycroft: but not for the crown itself
07:38 PM roycroft: who ever thought that a visit to the dentist would be on-topic here?
07:38 PM XXCoder: fun isnt it
07:40 PM roycroft: the dentist said that when they first started doing this (and i got a crown a year ago where they took impressions, so it wasn't too long ago) the lab work was traditional - instead of sending the impressions, they would send the file and the lab would 3d print the impressions
07:40 PM roycroft: then make a plaster mold of the impressions, and cast the gold in the mold
07:40 PM roycroft: she said that at first they were using a low-resolution printer, and her crowns were not fitting very well
07:41 PM roycroft: but then they got a higher resolution 3d printer, and it got better
07:41 PM roycroft: but now they bypass the whole impression/mold/casting bit
07:42 PM CloudEvil: solarwind: I don't see that on my jug of olive oil.
08:01 PM unterhaus: my dentist machined a crown for me a long time ago. I think they always scanned at this dentist, and I have been going to them for 15 years
08:02 PM unterhaus: granted, the one they machined was not good
08:02 PM unterhaus: IIRC, it was temporary
08:05 PM roycroft: i've had a temporary stainless steel crown that was "machined"
08:05 PM roycroft: i.e. they took one that was close to the right size and ground on it until it fit
09:22 PM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/V_f8Q2_Q_J0
09:22 PM XXCoder: making ones own electric bicycle using cnc