Sep 15 2021
01:04 AM Deejay: moin
03:39 AM rs[m]: fdarling: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/rtapi/uspace_rtapi_app.cc
03:39 AM rs[m]: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/rtapi/uspace_rtapi_app.cc#L1112
03:40 AM fdarling: that's rtapi... does this apply to PREEMPT_RT vs rtai?
03:41 AM rs[m]: rtapi is the linuxcnc real time framework abstraction layer AFAIK
03:42 AM rs[m]: the posix stuff uses plain old posix threads, rt preempt in the kernel and scheduler priority "FIFO" makes it kinda realtime
03:55 AM rs[m]: fdarling: are you using FIFO priority in your thread? do you bind it to your the cpu isolated with "isolcpu"?
04:17 AM Tom_L: morning
05:05 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:05 AM XXCoder: heys
08:46 AM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
09:06 AM unterhaus: I'm sorely tempted to just use sheet metal screws to attach my new computer to the door of my control cabinet.
09:06 AM unterhaus: I'm not sure I have the patience to get rid of the chips from drilling. I can get another one for $25
09:20 AM CaptHindsight[m]: tack weld, no chips
09:23 AM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: I was wondering why he was so out of the spotlight the past decade, he was battling cancer
09:28 AM CaptHindsight[m]: made it to Fabtech yesterday, Hazzy was giving out steel toolboxes
09:29 AM CaptHindsight[m]: Rapid was colocated this year
09:31 AM CaptHindsight[m]: metal powder upstairs at Fabtech for blasting $5/Kg, downstairs at Rapid $50/Kg
09:36 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7m9_jWMJ9k
09:41 AM CloudEvil: CaptHindsight[m]: He specifically said battling was an unhelpful concept,and I agree. https://i.imgur.com/6puaSbH.png - one of the most painful things about my mothers death was that she thought she did not fight hard enough against cancer and that's why she died.
10:33 AM roycroft: we have a 100% chance of rain starting friday night now
10:33 AM roycroft: and 21mm expected on saturday
10:33 AM roycroft: drought to deluge overnight
10:33 AM CaptHindsight[m]: “I’m pretty sure, I’m not a doctor, but I’m pretty sure if you die, the cancer dies at the same time. That’s not a loss. That’s a draw.”
10:35 AM unterhaus: physicians are much less likely to take extreme measures when they have cancer
10:38 AM roycroft: a lot of cancer treatment is for the benefit of the family, not the patient
10:44 AM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhaus: (missed point response) if a doctor has cancer they probably don't have energy to do so
10:46 AM unterhaus: physicians have the same amount of energy as anyone else
10:46 AM unterhaus: they just have a more realistic view of outcomes. If something is high reward, then obviously they do it
12:33 PM solarwind: My friend is looking for a lathe that he can put in his house. Any recommendations?
12:33 PM solarwind: So it has to be small enough to get through a standard residential doorway. Worst case scenario, I guess it can be kept in his garage
12:33 PM solarwind: A lathe and a mill
12:34 PM solarwind: He was thinking about something not too big from Grizzly
12:35 PM roycroft: there's a grizzly 10x20something that's fairly popular
12:36 PM roycroft: g0602
12:36 PM roycroft: look at precision mathews as well
12:36 PM roycroft: the fit and finish of those machines is generally a little better than grizzly
12:40 PM roycroft: the g0602 is a very popular lathe, though, especially for cnc conversions
12:42 PM roycroft: https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1022v-pm-1030v/
12:42 PM roycroft: have your friend look at that
12:52 PM Rab: I think the G0704 is the bog-standard home shop mill: https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-7-x-27-1-hp-mill-drill-with-stand/g0704
12:53 PM roycroft: he asked about a lathe, not a mill
12:54 PM Rab: <solarwind> A lathe and a mill
12:54 PM roycroft: the g0463 (sieg x3) was the pretty standard home shop mill until the g0704 came out
12:54 PM roycroft: oh, i guess i got bored and did not read that line :)
12:55 PM roycroft: precison matthews also have some bench mills that are nice
12:55 PM roycroft: again, the fit and finish generally being a bit better than grizzly
12:56 PM Rab: I guess the Precision Matthews version would be something like the PM-25MV, with the floor stand option.
12:56 PM roycroft: yes, approximately
12:56 PM unterhaus: lathes will go through any door. Mills probably have to be disassembled. I helped get a bridgeport series 1 into someone's basement
12:56 PM roycroft: and that machine is also popular with the cnc conversion crowd
12:57 PM roycroft: when i see "in his house" i think more "near a living area" than "in a dedicated shop space"
12:57 PM roycroft: and that makes me think benchtop machines, not floor-standing machines
12:57 PM Rab: Yes, I get the impression that the machines are basically the same Chinese castings etc but that PM has better QC. The price difference isn't huge, so I would lean toward PM.
12:57 PM roycroft: i may be projecting
12:57 PM unterhaus: around here, everyone has a basement
12:57 PM unterhaus: I have lived in places where that wasn't true
12:57 PM roycroft: around here basements are very rare
12:58 PM Rab: Very rare here, too, on account of shifting clay soil and deadly radon.
12:58 PM unterhaus: we have the deadly radon, doesn't stop anyone
12:58 PM roycroft: deadly radon?
12:58 PM roycroft: you must be mistaken
12:58 PM unterhaus: our house has a mitigation system though
12:59 PM roycroft: we have a perpetual candidate for congress in my district whose solution to the nuclear waste problem is to mix small amounts of it in foundation walls for new houses
12:59 PM unterhaus: vaguely related to an increased possibility of cancer
12:59 PM roycroft: he claims that the low-elevel radiation is beneficial to good health
12:59 PM Rab: roycroft, his first, I'm sure.
12:59 PM roycroft: how can radon be deadly if that is the case?
12:59 PM roycroft: he's the one who sends us postcards asking for pee samples to be sent to his lab
01:00 PM unterhaus: those beliefs are a problem, people are going to nuclear test sites for similar reasons
01:00 PM roycroft: but this guy is a scientist
01:00 PM roycroft: not a nutcase
01:00 PM unterhaus: "scientist"
01:00 PM roycroft: scientists cannot be nutcases, because the are scientists
01:01 PM Rab: solarwind, doorway could be a problem for a full-size knee mill, but not for a bench mill on a stand like the G0704.
01:01 PM unterhaus: my phd advisor has some really nutty ideas
01:01 PM unterhaus: he might consider himself a scientist, but he's not
01:01 PM Rab: For a lathe, you just want to make sure you don't have to turn any sharp corners.
01:02 PM Tom_L: they do come apart ya know
01:02 PM unterhaus: for my lathe, I got a boom forklift and just shoved it through the door
01:02 PM roycroft: well if it's a 10x26 it can be stood up on end to go down the stairs or around sharp corners
01:02 PM unterhaus: no doorways were harmed in this effort
01:03 PM Rab: Tom_L, sure, but that would be quite a bit of disassembly for a knee mill.
01:03 PM unterhaus: I sometimes feel guilty thinking about how hard it is going to be fore my kids to get that stuff out
01:03 PM unterhaus: it really isn't that bad to dissemble a knee mill enough to get it through a door
01:04 PM unterhaus: we took off the knee because of the weight though, that starts to be a chore
01:04 PM unterhaus: also need to take the head off
01:05 PM roycroft: the bridgport taliban
01:05 PM roycroft: cut the mill off at the knees, and decapitate it
01:06 PM roycroft: we have no idea what the intended use is for these house-based machines, so whatever we're suggesting is pure speculation
01:08 PM roycroft: if the purpose is to have machines in the house, and not to use them, i'd get an old south bend benchtop lathe and restore it to new condition
01:08 PM roycroft: it would look really cool
01:08 PM roycroft: or maybe a sheldon
01:09 PM Rab: I stand to inherit a Heavy 10 at some point, I'm not sure whether to make it a restoration project since it will need to come apart for transport.
01:10 PM roycroft: if it has to come apart anyway then restoration is the thing to do
01:11 PM Rab: And the paint on the stand, at least, is in pretty gross shape.
01:11 PM roycroft: does it come with the desk stand?
01:12 PM Rab: This stand only longer, I think it's 10x40: http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/img10.gif
01:13 PM roycroft: that's a pretty common south bend stand
01:13 PM roycroft: the one with drawers on both sides is more common
01:14 PM unterhaus: I wanted a heavy 10 at one point, then I got my sheldon. Which is a much more useful lathe for me.
01:14 PM Rab: It's certainly a weird, distinctive thing...not a fan of that style. But I'll be grateful to have it.
01:15 PM unterhaus: there was a better looking stand for the heavy 10. Might be easier to level that old one though
01:16 PM unterhaus: my sheldon has 8 contact points with the floor, it's a real pain to level
01:18 PM Rab: roycroft, what's the major difference for you? I had a tentative line on a Sheldon EXL-56, but I haven't pursued it.
01:19 PM Rab: EXL-56B
01:41 PM unterhaus: I think I would take a heavy 10 over one of the lesser sheldons
01:41 PM unterhaus: but the sheldon user base is incredibly helpful
01:44 PM roycroft: sheldon users are kind of cultish
01:45 PM roycroft: and i do not mean that in a bad way
01:59 PM unterhaus: unfortunately, the guy that had the engineering drawings severely injured himself and I don't think we will have access anymore
02:00 PM unterhaus: yardwork is a curse
02:01 PM roycroft: i am about to go out and work on my gazebo roof
02:02 PM roycroft: i really want to finish it today
02:02 PM roycroft: i've been doing maintenance in the evenings, so i get off at noon this week
02:30 PM unterhaus: I'm not sure having hundreds of t-storms on the weather map really qualifies for "scattered thunderstorms"
03:28 PM Topy is now known as Topy44
03:38 PM perry_j1987: you guys watching the spacex stream
03:38 PM perry_j1987: civilian mission to space
03:51 PM unterhaus: My new-to-me dell refuses to recognize my (admittedly weird) hard drive -- controller not supported
03:57 PM unterhaus: we just had a really severe thunderstorm. Knocked over a barn, for example
04:04 PM * JT-Shop found out today he won't get a 2021 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E Obsidian Blue Pearl...
04:10 PM Tom_L: :/
04:12 PM JT-Shop: they quit making them this month...
04:12 PM JT-Shop: mine is a 2022 :)
04:12 PM JT-Shop: being built next month
04:12 PM Tom_L: nice
04:12 PM Tom_L: new features over the 21?
04:13 PM JT-Shop: don't know what if anything changed yet
04:13 PM Tom_L: you drive the white one?
04:15 PM JT-Shop: no, it's sold
04:15 PM Tom_L: https://www.hotcars.com/honda-ridgeline-2022-everything-we-know/
04:16 PM JT-Shop: cool
04:17 PM JT-Shop: gotta get busy clearing out the 3rd bay in the garage... that vehicle is not staying outside with the wood rats
04:17 PM Tom_L: good idea
04:24 PM Tom_L: i wonder how long it takes to switch out a production line
04:24 PM Tom_L: won't have too far to go.. made in Alabama
04:25 PM JT-Shop: the switch should go pretty fast I'd think with not much changing on the body
04:26 PM Tom_L: just E of Birmingham
04:26 PM Tom_L: W?
04:27 PM Tom_L: we drive right by a toyota plant when we go south
04:38 PM JT-Shop: I wonder if the new transmission will get even better fuel mileage
04:44 PM JT-Shop: when you drive into the service receiving area at honda a machine measures your tire tread depth and sends you a text
05:14 PM JT-Shop: the text is a link to a page that shows all the things checked with pictures of your tires
05:45 PM perry_j1987: this mission today is the farthest humans will have ventured from earth since the Apollo missions
05:45 PM perry_j1987: wow
05:45 PM hazzy[m]: perry_j1987: did you make it to FABTECH?
05:46 PM perry_j1987: no
05:46 PM XXCoder: what mission?
05:46 PM Tom_L: spacex
05:46 PM perry_j1987: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pv01sSq44w
05:46 PM XXCoder: thanks
05:54 PM Tom_L: rpi4 powered?
06:09 PM fdarling: is this the "main loop" for the 1kHz servo thread on a uspace (PREEMPT_RT) LinuxCNC setup?: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/7447445b2f8f7f672c1eb324e196f026d6a8337f/src/hal/hal_lib.c#L2825
06:16 PM fdarling: this function seems to use the RTAI API call rt_task_wait_period(): https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/2e75b091a23e3312b9e57a88941714701f3709b8/src/rtapi/rtai_rtapi.c#L830
06:17 PM Tom_L: might be better asked in the -devel channel
06:17 PM fdarling: where is the version for PREEMPT_RT where it's not actually using RTAI?
06:17 PM roycroft: yay! i finished my gazebo roof!
06:17 PM fdarling: I forgot that there was a -devel channel! I'll continue this there
06:17 PM roycroft: with minutes to spare
06:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/7447445b2f8f7f672c1eb324e196f026d6a8337f/src/rtapi/README
06:30 PM _unreal_: fdarling, wholy crap you exist
06:39 PM perry_j1987: getting down to the last half hour before launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pv01sSq44w
06:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: reminds me of watching the space missions in the 60's and 70's
06:42 PM fdarling: unreal: yeah I do :-) I have been working on a lot of stuff, and apparently FreeNode had a hostile takeover or something? I only recently got on Libera.Chat
06:47 PM roycroft: the last part of the roofing work was pretty sketchy
06:47 PM roycroft: the gazebo is a dodecahedron, and as i was installing the roofing boards in each section i could stand in the next section to reach
06:47 PM roycroft: but on the last one i could not do that, of course
06:48 PM roycroft: i had to lean a ladder against the roof and crawl up to reach to the top part
06:53 PM _unreal_: I can see the launch from my roof
06:53 PM _unreal_: considering I live in south florida
06:53 PM _unreal_: and if there is no real cloud cover
07:14 PM XXCoder: 4 min to launch
07:33 PM _unreal_: that was one of the best launches I've seen
07:33 PM _unreal_: in a long time
07:39 PM Eric_ is now known as unterhausen
11:18 PM roycroft: wow
11:18 PM roycroft: now the forecast is for 33mm of rain in saturday
11:18 PM XXCoder: pretty lot
11:18 PM roycroft: yes, especially since we've had zero mm since memorial day
11:24 PM XXCoder: here did rain but very small amount
11:26 PM roycroft: i finished my gazebo roof today
11:26 PM roycroft: so i'm fine with rain coming
11:26 PM XXCoder: yay
11:29 PM roycroft: i bet if we get 33mm of rain on saturday and 11mm on sunday, by the end of the day monday the ground will be totally dry again as though it had not rained at all
11:29 PM XXCoder: or humidity too low, which means rain happens but ground barely get wet, then ionstantly dries after rain
11:39 PM fdarling: is there a known issue where LinuxCNC 2.8.2 has issues with jitter, but LinuxCNC 2.8.0 doesn't? I reinstalled a computer recently and the jitter is horrible, and it's happening to my friend. We both reverted to a LinuxCNC 2.7.14 LiveUSB and the jitter is waaaay better