#linuxcnc Logs
Sep 07 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:56 AM t4nk_freenode: Good morning, Derreck-John
02:07 AM TurBoss: good morning
02:08 AM XXCoder: o/
02:08 AM TurBoss: \o
03:54 AM t4nk_freenode: took some doing, but I managed to get the clamp onto the front plate
03:57 AM t4nk_freenode: got a bit lucky because the clamp fits inbetween the upper and lower bushings with not a mm to spare
04:38 AM Tom_L: morning
04:38 AM XXCoder: o/
04:45 AM enleth: solarwind: sounds like some high alloy steels, but why would anyone use that to weld mild
05:45 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:45 AM XXCoder: o/
07:34 AM JT-Cave: should be a short work day for me today... I hope
07:46 AM XXCoder: :)
07:48 AM perry_j1987: morning
07:56 AM Eric_: Penn State surplus just got a large number of computers in.
07:56 AM Eric_: not sure it's worth going over there though
08:09 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, what you workin on today?
08:19 AM JT-Cave: they got the spindle motor repaired on the copy lathe so some last bits of ladder testing
08:33 AM t4nk_freenode: I have no idea how to remove this collet from the nut.. it is locked in there good
08:35 AM t4nk_freenode: er11, there are no markings to align.. tried squeezing it and pulling, tried pushing with a flat screw head
08:36 AM t4nk_freenode: it's so small too, can't grip it with my fingers
08:38 AM perry_j1987: kick it to one side
08:39 AM perry_j1987: comes out at angle
08:43 AM t4nk_freenode: the collet hits the side before it can do some action
08:46 AM t4nk_freenode: pffffff got it
08:47 AM t4nk_freenode: put a screw into a piece of wood, then the nut on top with pressure
08:47 AM t4nk_freenode: then tilt, .... and then I tapped it with a piece of wood
08:48 AM t4nk_freenode: that was pretty hard
08:52 AM perry_j1987: look for burs
08:53 AM perry_j1987: cheep collets will have burrs left from the slitting saws
08:53 AM perry_j1987: may need to spend some time with a pick and get them cleared out
08:56 AM t4nk_freenode: say... I want to use that 1/4" bit... it's pretty stiff into 6mm... but it's a loose fit in a 6.5mm collet
08:57 AM t4nk_freenode: guess I'd still need to use the 6.5mm ey
09:03 AM enleth: t4nk_freenode: it's only loose until you tighten it down, 6.35mm in a 6.5 collet is perfectly good
09:04 AM enleth: BTW, why "freenode"?
09:05 AM t4nk_freenode: so basically it's a tolerance of .5mm either way ey? so thechnically a 6mm collet would also work if needed
09:05 AM t4nk_freenode: I tightened it up with some wrenches now, seems good
09:06 AM enleth: for all collet systems I know of, it's down only
09:06 AM enleth: and often 1mm down
09:06 AM enleth: although you do get a better grip if you have the inbetween sizes
09:07 AM t4nk_freenode: ow euh... I have no idea really, enleth ... just happened in the registration process on freenode, and when we went to libera I decided to keep the nick ;)
09:07 AM perry_j1987: you dont fit bigger items into collets only smaller items t4nk_freenode
09:07 AM t4nk_freenode: yeah, down only, that sounds good, I'll go with that
09:08 AM enleth: I would not try anything larger than 6.1 in a 6 collet and even that in a serious pinch only
09:08 AM perry_j1987: also order some more nuts
09:08 AM perry_j1987: its nice to have quite a few with collets and tools loaded up ready to swap
09:08 AM enleth: might be very hard to remove, with a non-zero chance of collet damage
09:09 AM t4nk_freenode: that would be nice, yes, perry_j1987 .... but maybe for when I actually know what I'm doing in a while
09:11 AM perry_j1987: a bit setter like this https://amzn.to/2VrPgRW
09:11 AM perry_j1987: makes you very happy
09:11 AM perry_j1987: every time you swap tools it will go over and touch off and update the tool table z length
09:17 AM t4nk_freenode: I should be all set.. all I need to do is move the carriage out of the way and fix a plate of mdf down
09:18 AM t4nk_freenode: I want to use screws for that, so for my mdf waste board
09:18 AM t4nk_freenode: so I'll have to sink the holes pretty deep or I'll head straight for an accident when I start planing
09:19 AM t4nk_freenode: or perhaps I should test the thing on a smaller piece of wood
09:48 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:00 AM t4nk_freenode: I'm about setup to go
10:00 AM t4nk_freenode: need to have a break, get som food, relax
10:02 AM t4nk_freenode: better look up some video's on how this planing actually works too ;)
10:25 AM t4nk_freenode: mmm still need that breal :b
10:26 AM t4nk_freenode: break.
10:27 AM t4nk_freenode: well, I got a 30cm² mdf board setup and that 1" planer bit covers all of it
10:27 AM t4nk_freenode: and that's really about the limit of my machine
10:28 AM t4nk_freenode: I can come out past the front of the machine a couple of cm's too... might be handy if I want to try dovetails
10:29 AM t4nk_freenode: now I think all I need to know is what rates to use
10:31 AM t4nk_freenode: 500W spindle, does 12000 rpm I got no idea what I'd need
10:31 AM t4nk_freenode: I'm thinking of taking off 1mm
10:32 AM t4nk_freenode: maybe .5 to start with
10:33 AM t4nk_freenode: spindle is quiet, but gets louder if I crank it up to the max, but still way, way way less noise than the dremel
10:45 AM perry_j1987: t4nk_freenode download gwizard
10:46 AM perry_j1987: its got settings calculators for routers in wood
10:50 AM t4nk_freenode: mmmm looks nice, but I don't have windows
10:51 AM t4nk_freenode: and I most certainly don't like logging in to use it
10:55 AM t4nk_freenode: I'm having a dry run now in bCNC
11:04 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:04 AM Tom_itx: Log
11:05 AM * t4nk_freenode drops dead from shame
11:07 AM t4nk_freenode: I'll need to start making some pcb so I can put all the electronics in a box and get some cooling going
11:07 AM t4nk_freenode: the x driver is getting pretty hot on that breadboard
12:01 PM t4nk_freenode: ok, I got sth setup... gonna just run and see what happens ;)
12:02 PM t4nk_freenode: holy smokes...... dust
12:17 PM JT-Cave: mmmm lunch was good... now back to work
12:24 PM roguish[m]: JT-Cave: who does the docs within the build? the stuff about installing QTVCP is way out of date........
12:25 PM roguish[m]: I think mainly because of the mess and confusion of the Python 3 and QT 5 upgrades....
12:37 PM t4nk_freenode: well, that was my first operation, XXCoder .... I took off .5mm in the end
12:38 PM t4nk_freenode: played around a bit with the feeds and rpms
12:53 PM t4nk_freenode: it took off some everywhere, so I guess it should be ok
12:53 PM t4nk_freenode: I took a piece of sandpaper to finish
12:56 PM t4nk_freenode: best clean up, vacuum ..... vacuum, and call it a night
01:11 PM t4nk_freenode: yeah, uhh, so thanks for getting me to buy that planer bit... it was the first bit I needed ;)
01:12 PM t4nk_freenode: I did set an overlap of 50% for the bit
01:28 PM Tom_L: need that much?
01:30 PM t4nk_freenode: I don't really know how it worked ;)
01:31 PM t4nk_freenode: so I thought it would be safe
01:31 PM t4nk_freenode: but there were track marks left, I assume that's normal
01:31 PM t4nk_freenode: you can see and feel the track marks
01:32 PM Tom_L: they will be minimal the closer to being trammed the mill is
01:32 PM Tom_L: 'you can see' is normal. 'you can feel' isn't
01:33 PM t4nk_freenode: at some point I noticed the bit bouncing on and off the mdf when I agitated the table it is sat on
01:34 PM t4nk_freenode: so that probably tells something about my machine ;)
01:35 PM t4nk_freenode: however, I have been messing around with the settings as I was going along
01:40 PM t4nk_freenode: I just looked up.. trammed
01:41 PM t4nk_freenode: let's just say.... some people come home and find certain types of stains on their clothes after having traveled by tram.
01:42 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/G0704%20Tramming%20Part%201.mp4
01:42 PM Tom_L: 2 & 3 are there as well
01:45 PM t4nk_freenode: yeah, it is most definitely grosely out of alignment
01:47 PM t4nk_freenode: I'm hoping to improve that by machining the next front plate. For this one I 3d printed a stencil to put on the wood, drilled by hand and it's all a big mess
01:48 PM t4nk_freenode: but I didn't put in many adjustment options in my design either
02:09 PM roguish[m]: Tom_L: put thosse on YouTude...................
02:09 PM t4nk_freenode: Tom_L, https://postimg.cc/gallery/1R899bz ... I'm not so pictury-takingy, but this sort of is the fierce competition you get from me
02:10 PM t4nk_freenode: *cough*
02:10 PM t4nk_freenode: ;)
02:11 PM roguish[m]: i'm doing that on my new little mill. have watched a few youtubes. yours are every bit as good.
02:17 PM t4nk_freenode: I think I'd like to buy some aluminium extrusions and make something better
02:18 PM t4nk_freenode: well I actually don't know what this thing can do, but I just know it is rubbish
02:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: t4nk_freenode: your linear bearing supports are only held in place by the wood screws, you could square it up and lock it in place with concrete or granite resin
02:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.adambender.info/post/2017/03/25/epoxy-granite-machine-frame-how-to following this method
03:19 PM Tom_L: roguish[m], i would but i didn't shoot them
03:21 PM Tom_L: but i also didn't want to lose track of them
03:27 PM Rhine_Labs: new reworks stations.. https://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/20210907_1258391-1024x576.jpg
04:13 PM t4nk_freenode: heh, I actually have 2 bags of concrete mixtures in the basement, CaptHindsight[m], wanted to experiment a while back
04:19 PM t4nk_freenode: I got all the good will in the world, but I just can't produce that kind of accuracy
04:20 PM t4nk_freenode: anyhow, I didn't want to close up the machine because I want to start producing commercial fire stairs for fire fighting squads
04:20 PM t4nk_freenode: but.... I was amazed at how stiff it became after everything was put together
04:21 PM t4nk_freenode: I expected the worst, but it is probably the most stiff part of the machine
04:36 PM Tom_L: t4nk_freenode, mine is not perfect either but close
04:37 PM roycroft: i have some real concerns about the design i've been looking at, and spent a fair amount of time over the weekend having a rethink on how i should build my cnc router
04:37 PM roycroft: i'll be fine if i can hold 0.005" with it, but i'm not at all convinced that the original design would do nearly that well
04:38 PM roycroft: one of the concerns i have about the design is that nobody talks about how accurate their machines are
04:39 PM t4nk_freenode: they can't put a pen in without a spring mechanism to act as a forgiver... perhaps that says something ;)
04:41 PM t4nk_freenode: -a
04:41 PM Tom_L: i had a full design done and started over on mine...
04:42 PM roycroft: i'm actually not at all concerned about accuracy along the z axis
04:42 PM roycroft: perhaps i should be, but when i build the machine 100% of the work will be through cutting of parts
04:43 PM roycroft: i think i've figured out a way to mount the gantry support rails pretty repeatably, though, so the z should be pretty good
04:43 PM roycroft: smf o
04:44 PM roycroft: and i'm not averse to redisigning from scratch after i get my design done, if that's what is needed to make it work
04:44 PM roycroft: i'd rather redo it all in cad than redo it all in iron
04:44 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Bad_idea_design.jpg
04:44 PM Tom_L: that was my first idea that got scrapped
04:46 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Column_Mill_VMC.jpg
04:46 PM Tom_L: i feel that is alot more rigid
04:47 PM Tom_L: aside from doing any structural anaysis on it
04:47 PM roycroft: yeah, it looks like it would be a lot more rigid
04:47 PM roycroft: the first design would be pretty hard to build, anyway
04:47 PM Tom_L: i had most of it cut
04:47 PM roycroft: lots of small pieces that have to be assembled very accurately
04:49 PM Tom_L: i think maybe i deleted those pics since i didn't build it
04:49 PM roycroft: i was going to do a variant of the low rider design, but with vee grooves for the wheels to ride in, but that whole idea seems too sketchy for me
04:49 PM roycroft: i'm leaning towards using some 80/20 or similar extruded metal for the y axis/gantry rails
04:50 PM t4nk_freenode: I want to put some holes into the waste board tomorrow... see if I can put some nuts in and then use them to tighten some clamp
04:50 PM t4nk_freenode: but I guess I should have done that before I fixed it and planed it
04:51 PM perry_j1987: well that was fun
04:51 PM perry_j1987: truck wouldnt start after goin to get groceries just clickin relay
04:51 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: you mentioned vee grooves. what da ya mean?
04:52 PM t4nk_freenode: I could either drill from the bottom side and make the hole bigger for the nut to sit in
04:52 PM t4nk_freenode: or I might drill holes from the top, not through and through, and drop some nuts in with glue
04:53 PM Tom_L: roycroft, found a mockup of it: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Steel6.jpg
04:53 PM t4nk_freenode: just want to get something going
04:53 PM Tom_L: but it all got reused
04:55 PM t4nk_freenode: lol, I always have plans like that... looks so simple, dunnit?
04:55 PM t4nk_freenode: but I would mess that up beyond belief
04:59 PM roycroft: roguish[m]: i was going to use some angle iron
04:59 PM roycroft: the lowrider design uses inline skate wheels to move the gantry
04:59 PM roycroft: the wheels generally run directly on the benchtop
04:59 PM Tom_L: 80/20 might be ok for a router
05:00 PM roycroft: with no constraintw
05:00 PM roycroft: constraints
05:00 PM Tom_L: i wouldn't use it for a mill personally
05:00 PM roycroft: this is a router that will be used for wood, mostly mdf and baltic birch plywood
05:01 PM Tom_L: well there you go then :)
05:01 PM roycroft: and keep in mind that a primary design requirement is that i can disassemble and reassemble it quickly
05:01 PM roycroft: so a heavy, rigid steel or cast iron design would not be very practical
05:01 PM t4nk_freenode: that'll come in handy when you throw it in the bin later ;)
05:01 PM roycroft: hopefully that will not be the case
05:02 PM roycroft: i think if i set realistic expectations i have a chance of meeting those expectations
05:02 PM Tom_L: agreed
05:03 PM roycroft: and one of the expectations is that it does not have to be fast at all
05:03 PM Tom_L: mine was to outperform a sherline :)
05:03 PM Tom_L: fairly easy to do
05:03 PM roycroft: this is for making jigs/fixtures
05:03 PM roycroft: not for production parts production
05:03 PM roycroft: i'll do the production work on the router table that the cnc router sits on
05:03 PM roycroft: using the jigs i make with the cnc router
05:04 PM t4nk_freenode: I want to start producing new and different parts for the machine, hopefully improving it
05:06 PM t4nk_freenode: might buy some squared steel tubing and make a new x-axis, that'll be more rigid, perhaps running on bearings this time
05:06 PM t4nk_freenode: and maybe do the same for the y axes if it works
05:07 PM roycroft: i'm even starting to wonder if i should bother getting a 2.2kw spindle for this router
05:07 PM roycroft: just because of the weight of the spindle
05:07 PM t4nk_freenode: I feel like I'm generating a lot of unnecessary friction with my current design
05:09 PM roycroft: hmm, the smaller spindle motors mostly have er11 collets, and that won't work
05:09 PM roycroft: and they don't weigh much less than the bigger motors
05:11 PM t4nk_freenode: the 500W one I bought weighs some 900 grams, a little over 1kg with the clamp
05:11 PM Tom_L: for your wood shop
05:13 PM roycroft: i wonder if should just plan on using 1/4" and 1/8" cutters on the cnc router
05:13 PM roycroft: i use 1/2" shank router cutters whenever possible, but perhaps that's not so necessary on the cnc router
05:14 PM roycroft: if i could reduce the weight of the spindle by 75% that would help a lot
05:19 PM Tom_L: smaller cutters create more machine time too
05:20 PM roycroft: i found a 1.5kw spindle that weighs significantly less than the 2.2kw spindle, and still has an er20 collet
05:20 PM roycroft: tom_l: if the job is cookie cutter work, smaller cutters can mean less machine time and less waste
05:20 PM Tom_L: probably fine for what you're doing
05:21 PM roycroft: and perhaps most importantly, less sawdust
05:25 PM t4nk_freenode: could I use a single flute to cut sunken holes into mdf?
05:26 PM Tom_L: how do you plan to plunge into it?
05:26 PM Tom_L: pilot hole?
05:26 PM Tom_L: those cutters likely are not center cutting
05:27 PM t4nk_freenode: mmmm
05:28 PM t4nk_freenode: I think they'll go down straight
05:29 PM Tom_L: you'll be the first to know :)
05:32 PM t4nk_freenode: otherwise, apart from the flutes, I only got these
05:32 PM t4nk_freenode: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H9c01dfcd697d4e009b76a5c6e9645b87A/10pcs-0-8-3-175mm-Carbide-PCB-Milling-Cutter-Set-3-175mm-Shank-Corn-End-Mill.jpg
05:32 PM t4nk_freenode: and my v bit thingies
05:33 PM t4nk_freenode: some .5mm pcb bits
05:33 PM t4nk_freenode: and some pcb drills
05:35 PM t4nk_freenode: but apart from the 'center cutting' problem, which I wasn't even aware about ;), my concern was if a single flute would tear the mdf or something
05:35 PM t4nk_freenode: leave ragged edges
05:37 PM t4nk_freenode: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07D6GJVYW these are the flutes
05:39 PM CloudEvil: Spiralling in should work fine.
05:39 PM Tom_L: what are those designed for?
05:40 PM Tom_L: yeah if you do a helix entering the hole it would be ok
05:40 PM Tom_L: i would question a straight plunge
05:45 PM t4nk_freenode: I'll have a go tomorrow
05:47 PM CloudEvil: Or just plunge at high RPm and slow feed, and ignore the fire
05:47 PM t4nk_freenode: nah, I'm pretty sure they will cut straight down
05:48 PM t4nk_freenode: when I unpacked the spindle, I put a flute in, let it down on some wood, and turned the top fan with my mand
05:48 PM t4nk_freenode: hand
05:48 PM t4nk_freenode: it went in straight away
05:49 PM t4nk_freenode: I let it rest on the wood I mean
05:49 PM t4nk_freenode: t
06:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: t4nk_freenode: how is your router out of square now?
10:55 PM Rhine_Labs: I need to learn how to do PCB's on the tormach.
11:17 PM enleth: Rhine_Labs: first and foremost figure out dust extraction
11:18 PM Rhine_Labs: Thats not an issue lol
11:18 PM enleth: FR4 dust is pretty bad for humans and outright murderous to anything mechanical
11:18 PM Rhine_Labs: Shop Vac..
11:20 PM Rhine_Labs: I have a rather large Collector with heppa filter on my blast cab used it for other fiberglass.
11:21 PM enleth: consider milling inside a shallow box to stop anything that escapes the vac nozzle from getting into t-slots, bolt holes, etc. where it might wait for an opportunity to get blown onto the ways
11:30 PM Rhine_Labs: https://youtu.be/3GdcYVumcF8
11:30 PM Rhine_Labs: Atten Vs Quick.
11:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: FR4 is mostly epoxy resin with silica. Just run the dust through a water pipe / hookah.
11:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: dedicate a cheap Chinaco router to FR4 and just replace the cheap bearings whenever they get even crunchier than when new