Aug 19 2021
01:10 AM Deejay: moin
01:36 AM randy: morning
05:21 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:22 AM XXCoder: yo
06:31 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:31 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:00 AM * JT-Cave thinks it's silly and stupid for a us based company to list recommended structural steel sizes in mm I just see calling up the steel yard and asking for some 88.9mm round tubing
08:02 AM JavaBean: they will just figure out how to import such tubing from europe
08:18 AM enleth: JT-Cave: listed in mm, but actually inch tubing?
08:23 AM enleth: it could make sense if they listed actual metric tubing sizes, subcontractors doing stuff for the US military are among potential users of this information
08:24 AM JT-Cave: enleth, yes inch steel
08:25 AM enleth: well that's just dumb
08:53 AM JT-Cave: https://shadesails.com/information/posts-2
09:04 AM roycroft: their square tubing seems to actually be metric
09:04 AM roycroft: but their round tubing is in american customary units
09:04 AM roycroft: if it were me, and my products were mixed like that, i'd probably use both units in the specs
09:11 AM CloudEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaZcyq7YsNA tangentially related only.
09:11 AM CloudEvil: Design changes and issues with the building that lead to overloading in the as-built state of the recent california building collapse.
09:15 AM JT-Shop: roy exactly if you ship to both inch and metric countries list both
09:17 AM roycroft: this won't happen in my lifetime, but i wish we would just get on with metrification in the us
09:17 AM roycroft: these kinds of issues are ridiculous
09:21 AM roycroft: and specifying 88.9mm tubing is completely counterproductive
09:21 AM roycroft: it shouts at people "if you want to use metric you have to do a lot of complex math"
09:21 AM CloudEvil: Quite.
09:22 AM CloudEvil: This is why you specify it as 90mm.
09:22 AM CloudEvil: (please no)
09:22 AM roycroft: i'll not go on a rant about how remedial arithmetic is considered complex math in this country
09:22 AM roycroft: specify it at 3.5" tubing, or specify actual metric dimensioned tubing
09:23 AM CloudEvil: is 3.5" tubing actually 3.5"? or is it like wood.
09:23 AM roycroft: the thing that is hardest to convince people of is that converting to metric does not mean mathematically converting us customary units to metric and vice versa
09:23 AM roycroft: it means just using the new units
09:23 AM roycroft: tubing is actual size
09:23 AM roycroft: pipe is nomimal size
09:23 AM roycroft: and wood is wood
09:24 AM roycroft: it is variable size :)
09:54 AM roycroft: the pcb repair guy thinks i may have bad mosfets
09:54 AM roycroft: i'm going to send him the board at this point - mosfets are pretty static-sensitive, and there are surface mount components on the board
09:55 AM roycroft: i'm not equipped to solder surface mounted stuff and he is
09:57 AM perry_j1987: you have a hot plate?
09:58 AM roycroft: i do
09:58 AM perry_j1987: check on youtube to see it done with hotplates
09:58 AM roycroft: this guy will fix it for $50 or not charge me anything if he can't fix it
09:59 AM perry_j1987: ah well thats not bad
09:59 AM perry_j1987: FETS included in the price?
09:59 AM roycroft: but he won't fix it if i've messed with it
09:59 AM roycroft: he says "normal repairs"
09:59 AM roycroft: i'm not sure, but that's somewhat irrelevant
09:59 AM roycroft: if i try to fix it myself and determine it's a mosfet problem, i still have to buy them myself
10:00 AM roycroft: if i damage the board it's $200 for a new one
10:00 AM roycroft: so to me, sending it to this guy for repair seems prudent
10:00 AM roycroft: his turnaround time is <48 hours, so most of the time will be transit
10:01 AM roycroft: my biggest concern right now is finding the right size box
10:01 AM roycroft: it won't fit in a standard priority mail box, because it has some really long heatsinks
10:04 AM firephoto__ is now known as firephoto_
10:18 AM perry_j1987: youtube videos on cutting boxes down to make custom sized boxes
10:18 AM perry_j1987: its actually pretty cool trick
10:19 AM CloudEvil: 'we cut this regular house into a tiny house'
10:21 AM roycroft: i've made custom size boxes many times
10:21 AM roycroft: iirc, though, usps charge a lot more for priority mail using not their boxes
10:23 AM roycroft: and while i'm not a a big hurry to get this fixed, the guy is going on vacation starting the first of september, so if i don't get it to him soon it will take quite a while to get it turned around
10:23 AM roycroft: so priority mail is the way to go
10:24 AM roycroft: there is an active bomb threat near the capitol
10:24 AM roycroft: parts of the capitol office buldings, the supreme court, and the library of congress have been evacuated
10:25 AM roycroft: it's a guy in a van who claims there's a bomb in his van
10:37 AM Roguish: nuke him
10:48 AM roycroft: i think the objective is to keep any possible explosive device in the van from detonating
10:49 AM CloudEvil: Have they tried getting lawmakers to declare that it is not actually explosive?
10:50 AM roycroft: they're on august recess
10:50 AM roycroft: besides, this is the us capitol, not indiana or kansas
10:51 AM roycroft: (the two states that attempted to legislate the value of pi)
10:54 AM roycroft: more than the box issue, it occurs to me that i need to find an anti-static bag big enough for this board, which may be a bigger challenge
10:57 AM CaptHindsight[m]: CloudEvil: they would more likely legislate that inches, Fahrenheit and pounds are now metric
10:58 AM CaptHindsight[m]: perception is reality is the main force here
11:22 AM roycroft: we already did that, in the 1870s and again in the 1970s
11:22 AM roycroft: our american customary units have been defined in terms of si units for over 150 years
11:47 AM perry_j1987: roycroft anti-static bag from old motherboard purchase
11:57 AM roycroft: i found an old processor blade for a cisco router that was in a ginormous anti-static bag
11:57 AM roycroft: it's about 5x as large as i need, but it will work
12:12 PM Tom_itx: roycroft, mark your board so you know you're getting it back
12:14 PM JT-Cave: roycroft, for priority the box doesn't matter, for flat rate and regional it does
12:15 PM roycroft: i took a picture of the serial number
12:15 PM roycroft: and i found a box that will suffice, thanks
12:16 PM JT-Cave: I found out today that Honda is building my truck in October
12:17 PM Tom_itx: didn't like the one the dealer had?
12:17 PM JT-Cave: no dealer had one
12:18 PM Tom_itx: oh, i thought you said the dealer had one in a different color
12:18 PM JT-Cave: I've been looking since march
12:18 PM JT-Cave: yes it's in transit and I plan on checking it out before the sell it but I don't want a red truck
12:18 PM Tom_itx: i knew it'd been a while
12:19 PM Tom_itx: yeah i wouldn't want red either
12:19 PM JT-Cave: the red one is the first one they have in transit since I started looking
12:21 PM Tom_itx: put a fancy wrap on it :)
12:22 PM JT-Cave: I finally figured out why I couldn't trace the wiring from the electrical to the valves... some went to several places
12:22 PM Tom_itx: on?
12:22 PM JT-Cave: 4 up copy lathe
12:22 PM Tom_itx: the copier?
12:23 PM JT-Cave: some of the wires went to the push button panel and I had hooked them up to the plc so I was getting weird meter reading till I spotted the second wire on the terminal blocks
12:24 PM Tom_itx: fun
12:25 PM JT-Cave: http://cpg-image-cdn.cheappartsguy.com/PRV_UPLOAD/origin/CDG_PH_150532001_Bacci%20Copy%20Lathe%20T4MO%20-%201-1.jpg
12:25 PM JT-Cave: the electrical panel is crammed with stuff
12:26 PM Tom_itx: why are they converting it? not working?
12:26 PM JT-Cave: yep, they can only get 1 of the 4 to run
12:27 PM JT-Cave: the one I'm working on now would run sometimes
12:27 PM Tom_itx: figure out why yet?
12:27 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
12:36 PM unterhaus: CaptHindsight[m] do you think something like this is what I want for my linear delta 3d printer https://www.amazon.com/Printer-Extruder-Upgraded-Extrusion-Makernot/dp/B08Z7SJFF2/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=Haldis+3D&qid=1629393566&sr=8-3
12:48 PM JT-Shop: I didn't bother with the old controls, putting a plc in
12:52 PM Tom_L: just curious how you figure out all the logic for it all
01:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhaus: sure
01:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: heh all metal but the pic is of an FDM printed version
01:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Delrin is lower cost at McMaster than ebay! The world is upside down!
01:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 1 piece shipped in a box that holds 20 pcs, they are more amazon like every time
01:20 PM unterhaus: ebay really wants to be amazon
01:20 PM unterhaus: amazon wants to be walmart. Time is a flat circle
01:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: will be experimenting with my loss of taste and smell later, took a week
01:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: coffee tastes like hot water
01:25 PM unterhaus: you got the 'rona?
01:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.alro.com/locations/location.aspx?loc=EZ outlet store
01:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they have 12"pieces of some heavy I-beam for $12ea, advertised as anvils
01:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ~25kg ea (50lbs)
01:27 PM unterhaus: anvils went through the roof. I remember when you could get one at a junkyard for $1 a pound
01:27 PM unterhaus: Of course, it's not uncommon that they weigh a couple hundred pounds
01:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the guy there said they can cut to size at the same price
01:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so it's ~25 cents per pound
01:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they have a piece in the remnant rack maybe 20ft long
01:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: looked like maybe 1/2in I and 10 x 10 in
01:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 18-24 in should be a good all around size
01:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or time to build that really heavy duty table that you've wanted
01:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I got a steel layout table used for typesetting years ago for $100, it must be 2000lbs
01:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: flat, no holes or slots
01:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: should have it ground one of these days
01:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: too nice to weld on
01:46 PM roycroft: the would-be capitol bomber has surrendered, so he won't be blowing anything up today
01:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: alleged
01:48 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:50 PM unterhaus: given the truck he was in, I imagine he's rather ineffectual and the fact he was still alive argued against an explosive device
01:50 PM unterhaus: I have a friend that calls those "tonka toy trucks"
01:51 PM unterhaus: the most danger he posed was driving there in a vehicle too tall to see pedestrians
01:52 PM unterhaus: If I ever pull a stunt like that, I'm pulling my tonka truck diagonally across the road instead of parking on the sidewalk like a cuck
01:53 PM roycroft: my plan is to never become a deranged lunatic who threatens to bomb anything
01:53 PM unterhaus: aim higher
01:53 PM roycroft: that's not my only plan
01:53 PM roycroft: it's my plan regarding personal bomb threats
01:54 PM unterhaus: right, bomb threats are pathetic
01:54 PM Roguish: oh roycroft, you're no fun.....
01:55 PM unterhaus: terroristic threats are not my style anyway
01:55 PM unterhaus: I'm just critiquing this guy's style
01:57 PM unterhaus: although maybe they should have terroristic threat day on the national mall where everybody gets to get it out of their system. It could be like american Idol, with judges in an explosion proof bunker
02:06 PM unterhaus: Amazon shipped my pi4 and the heatsink separately, cue sad trombones
02:08 PM snakedGT is now known as snaked
02:18 PM unterhaus: Brave looks interesting, maybe I'll try it. Is there motto, "don't do evil?"
02:18 PM unterhaus: ^their motto
02:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you just redefine "evil"
02:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: a real threat might be taking away Twitter, facebook and Instagram
02:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: $1 million or I render your smartphones useless
02:29 PM roycroft: in my case, it would be "$1 million or i won't render your smartphones useless"
02:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it was fun hearing about the anti-vaxers worried about trackers with no concern about their phones and computers
02:58 PM Tom_L: unterhaus, which one did you get?
03:53 PM Tom_L: yay
04:13 PM unterhaus: Tom_L I got the one you linked at amazon
04:13 PM Tom_L: nice
04:13 PM Tom_L: nice thing about that kit is it comes with the supply and it's got a switch on the cord
04:14 PM Tom_L: that other heat sink was optional
04:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: since I can't smell how do I tell if it is Polypropylene or not? Flame is yellow center with blue shell
04:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.craftechind.com/identify-plastic-material-using-burn-test/
04:23 PM CloudEvil: softening point?
04:24 PM unterhaus: Tom_L, I'll have to look at the case that comes with the kit to decide if I think it's good enough. My plan was to put the pi in a box with the other electronics, so the heat sink case would be better
04:29 PM JT-Shop: I used a din rail mount for a rpi in a machine at the industrial park
04:35 PM unterhaus: industrial computers are such low production quantities that a pi is probably more battle tested
04:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: different animals
04:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: industrial PC's are designed with industrial in mind
04:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Rpi was "what can we get away with"
04:42 PM unterhaus: not sure, I think the same of the industrial computers I have used. It boots? Ship it
04:43 PM unterhaus: I wish the pi had been around when I was building mobile robots
04:49 PM roycroft: and the number of senators who have just tested positive is up to seven
04:49 PM roycroft: including members of both parties, and angus king
04:49 PM unterhaus: were they all on the boat?
04:50 PM unterhaus: Manchin's boat?
04:50 PM roycroft: i doubt it
04:51 PM roycroft: i don't think senators hickenlooper and wicker would want to be in the same town as each other if they could help it
04:51 PM JT-Shop: trying to do anything with verizon is a huge pia
04:51 PM roycroft: can they hear you now?
04:52 PM JT-Shop: https://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/resources/faq/#should-i-heat-up-the-finish-before-trying-to-apply-it
04:53 PM roycroft: interesting
04:53 PM roycroft: i've never had a problem with drying time
04:54 PM roycroft: but i'm really good about wiping it competely dry after application
04:54 PM JT-Shop: I was just looking for clean up solvent
04:56 PM unterhaus: I doubt my under saw cabinet is going to be finished. Wash coat of shellac maybe
04:56 PM roycroft: if you're having trouble with other solvents, you might try turpentine, jt-shop
04:57 PM JT-Shop: I've not tried that but google seems to think it will work
05:01 PM roycroft: since the varnish oil contains pine resin there's a good chance that turpentine will work
05:08 PM JT-Shop: I need to find a better lint free rag to apply it, the ones I got from menards wear out pretty quick and start leaving threads
05:08 PM unterhaus: I'll have to see if I have any din rail mounts that could be adapted. Would be nice to have both the mesa and the pi on a rail
05:09 PM unterhaus: JT-Shop, where do you get the plastic bits for your din rail mounts?
05:09 PM JT-Shop: china
05:11 PM JT-Shop: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EYT8TZU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
05:11 PM JT-Shop: what do you need a couple of 3.7" din rail mounts?
05:12 PM unterhaus: well, that would work if you had any
05:12 PM JT-Shop: I should be able to make some in the next few days
05:13 PM unterhaus: I could use 10, probably
05:13 PM JT-Shop: ok
05:14 PM unterhaus: lmk
05:35 PM unterhaus: the dog dug out a baby bunny out of the bushes. Dunnow what's wrong with mama, there are plenty of places with no dogs
05:35 PM unterhaus: I thought he found a squeaky toy, but no
05:36 PM unterhaus: now I got to go find a shovel and finish it off.
06:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhaus: his mounts work well
06:08 PM JT-Shop: ok 150 3.7" din rail mounts in production
06:09 PM unterhaus: great, thanks
06:09 PM * JT-Shop calls it a day
06:34 PM unterhaus: I always got them from Mesa, but since I decided to keep the boards I ordered by mistake I need more
06:34 PM unterhaus: bunny must have been in better shape than I thought. By the time I made it back from the shed with a shovel, it was gone
06:34 PM Tom_L: you'll find use for them
06:35 PM Tom_L: maybe it got wind of the shovel
06:35 PM unterhaus: didn't want to be used as a squeaky toy for the dogs again, I bet
06:50 PM unterhaus: Tom_L is it okay to run the pi4 without any heatsinks for a day?
06:51 PM Tom_L: i'd want some sort of heatsink i think
06:53 PM unterhaus: so if my plan is to use the heatsink case, I should just wait a day until it gets here?
06:54 PM Tom_L: i would
06:55 PM Tom_L: of course that's not what you wanted to hear :)
06:56 PM unterhaus: I'll get over my disappointment
06:56 PM unterhaus: I can always hook it up to the pc and then switch
06:56 PM unterhaus: it's just an ethernet cable
06:57 PM Tom_L: you saw jt's page for setting it up?
06:57 PM Tom_L: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/
07:00 PM unterhaus: there is an image I can install, isnt' there? There is a current thread on the forum
07:00 PM unterhaus: left me a little confused though
07:02 PM Tom_L: yes on the image
07:02 PM unterhaus: I'm all about d/l an image instead of doing any building
07:03 PM Tom_L: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/dists/buster/2.8-rtpreempt/binary-armhf/
07:04 PM Tom_L: [ ] linuxcnc-uspace_18.104.22.168.g3c61dfc26_armhf.deb
07:05 PM Tom_L: or the one just below that is slightly newer
07:05 PM Tom_L: just noticed
07:12 PM Tom_L: his page is helpful for setthing network etc up though
07:13 PM Tom_L: you'll want a static ip for the mesa card
07:19 PM Tom_L: it's pretty simple... just ask if you get stuck
07:21 PM unterhaus: hopefully won't have any problems, already did it for the pc
07:21 PM unterhaus: this windows pc has a sd card writer, so I d/l it here
07:23 PM Tom_L: i might have to dust off my pi skilz but it's not hard to figure out
07:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhaus: if the power magement is still on the Rpi will underclock when it gets too hot
07:34 PM unterhaus: that makes sense, but it won't hurt me to wait a day
07:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so without a heatsink it will run really slow all the time
07:40 PM unterhaus: my heatsink would have gotten here tomorrow if they had just bothered to ship it
07:41 PM Tom_L: the one in the kit should be adequate, i personally wanted fanless
07:44 PM unterhaus: there's no reason to have a box within a box
07:44 PM unterhaus: I actually had the heatsink case in my saved items because Andy recommended it
07:48 PM Tom_L: the only downside to it is you can't put a plug on the header
07:49 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Rpi4/Case_top2.jpg
07:49 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Rpi4/Case_top_idc.jpg
07:50 PM Tom_L: even if you milled it wider, it would get into the screw hole mounts
07:50 PM Tom_L: but you do have access to the pins
07:51 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Rpi4/Rpi4_top.jpg
07:51 PM Tom_L: with ethernet, it's no big deal
07:51 PM Tom_L: if you used one of the rpi specific mesa boards it could be
07:53 PM unterhaus: not a problem right now. I remember there was a similar heatsink with an extender for the pins
07:54 PM Tom_L: i tested it also with spi and made a crude cable for that for the 7i90
07:55 PM Tom_L: pretty sure those rpi specific boards use spi (not positive)
07:56 PM Tom_L: i looked for extenders like pc104 use but didn't find one
07:59 PM unterhaus: I have sockets like the ones included in this product https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085XPHY77/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_9?smid=AOP0CH6UTUPHT&psc=1
07:59 PM unterhaus: just a socket used upside-down
08:01 PM Tom_L: yeah that's what i was looking for at the time
08:02 PM Tom_L: are those full size pins?
08:03 PM unterhaus: standard header socket
08:04 PM unterhaus: .1
08:04 PM unterhaus: I got some for the beaglebone
08:44 PM unterhaus: Fam is at the beach, so it's just me and the dogs studying french
08:47 PM unterhaus: they aren't too good at French, but there isn't much for a dog to learn