Aug 14 2021
12:00 AM roycroft: $26.95 at hf, and $21.95 at hd
12:07 AM roycroft: er, $21.97 at hd
12:07 AM perry_j1987: ok ty
12:07 AM roycroft: $958 for a 55 gallon drum at lowe's
12:07 AM roycroft: that's way cheaper
12:07 AM roycroft: but it might take you a while to go through that much
12:07 AM perry_j1987: want to go in on it with me
12:07 AM perry_j1987: heh
12:07 AM roycroft: a gallon lasts me a couple years
12:07 AM roycroft: so probably not
12:07 AM roycroft: although when i finally get my cnc mill conversion done, i'll probably go through a lot more than i currently do
12:17 AM enleth: roycroft: at that point it might make sense to try doing your own mix
12:18 AM enleth: it should be possible to mix an approximation of WD-40 that works well as a coolant and is way cheaper
12:22 AM roycroft: i'm not sure if wd-40 will even be the best thing to use when i'm doing cnc operations
12:22 AM roycroft: but i like it for non-ferrous metals when manually machining
12:23 AM roycroft: i know i won't have flood coolant capability
12:23 AM roycroft: so it will be mist coolant or manualy squirting
12:23 AM roycroft: i'll sort that when i get closer to the point of needing it
01:44 AM Deejay: moin
04:16 AM Tom_L: morning
05:41 AM JT-Cave: morning
07:41 AM * JT-Cave searches for a linux pdf viewer that doesn't suck
08:24 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, i'm sure glad you've got your lcnc help pages up. it's been so long since i had the rpi4 out i'd forgotten
08:24 AM Tom_L: removed the pre'release lcnc from it and installed the latest .dep and updated to my current mill config
08:26 AM Tom_L: bench tested the config with a 7i80
08:30 AM JT-Cave: thanks for telling me they are helpful
09:28 AM roycroft: acrobat reader supposedly runs well using wine
09:53 AM perry_j1987: morning
09:55 AM roycroft: aye, that it is
10:08 AM unterhaus: I thought you could get acrobat reader for linux
10:08 AM unterhaus: oh, I see, "could" in the past
10:14 AM perry_j1987: if adobe products ran on linux there would be a mass exodus
10:14 AM perry_j1987: adobe and autodesk have the power to shift a lot of money out of microsofts hands heh
10:18 AM perry_j1987: JT-Cave you looking for chromium browser extension to handle pdf viewing?
10:26 AM JT-Cave: no, I finally figured out that Atril defaults to page view and changed it to more normal continuous view
10:37 AM perry_j1987: k
10:48 AM perry_j1987: i seem to have brought fusion 360 to its knees
10:51 AM Thorhian: RIP
10:51 AM unterhaus: I have found that bringing f360 to its knees isn't difficult
10:51 AM perry_j1987: i tried to press C and draw a circle lol
10:51 AM unterhaus: But they really want you to have a better graphics card than I have, even though my computer is fine
10:52 AM roycroft: does fusion not properly support the autocad cli?
10:52 AM unterhaus: I swear I saw there was a better way to rotate the drawing in freecad
11:17 AM unterhaus: f360 acts like a browser app inside its own mostly hidden browser
11:17 AM unterhaus: I seem to recall that msft was pushing that idea years ago
11:33 AM Tom_L: perry_j1987, a rookie could do that to f360
11:36 AM unterhaus: I hear the undergrads love f360
11:46 AM roycroft: undergrads are overrated
11:47 AM roycroft: i think one of the reasons that i was able to be so productive while on my vacation is that windows did not once impose updates on me while i was trying to get work done
11:48 AM * roycroft just synched all his data from the laptop to the imac, and is trying to add some dimensions to a drawing before heading out to the shop, but windows decided instead that it's update time and is refusing to let him work until it has finished its business
11:55 AM Roguish: roycroft, undergrads are inexperience. usually only know what they've been shown in class.
12:17 PM unterhaus: I think our undergrads are only shown how to use solidworks, so the fact that they like f360 means they are too cheap to pay $20 for solidworks
12:17 PM unterhaus: I also think they like reshaping things with a mouse
12:18 PM roycroft: correct, on the inexperience bit
12:18 PM roycroft: when hiring recent college grads, it usually takes about six month of "unlearning" before they become useful
12:20 PM * roycroft finds that certain things are done faster and more efficiently with a pointing device, but most things he does are faster and more efficient from the command line
12:22 PM Roguish: unterhaus, you may be right about the $20....... and roycroft, the first full year of a new grad with no prior experience working is very dodgy
12:24 PM roycroft: they have a lot of background knowledge
12:24 PM roycroft: but ivory towers do not translate well to the real world
12:24 PM roycroft: and college professors absolutely live in ivory towers
12:59 PM Thorhian: roycroft I like fusion360 because it has decent CAM while being somewhat accessible in terms of cost. That's it.
01:00 PM roycroft: it seems a decent app, but the pricing model is constantly changing, it requires calling home on a regular basis, and autocad claim ownership of all one's files created with it
01:00 PM roycroft: er, autodesk, not autocad
01:02 PM Thorhian: Lol, I still hate it accept for the CAM aspect. I'd use FreeCAD but's the path workbench just isn't there yet. Also, how do you get solidworks for $20 in a commercial setting???
01:02 PM roycroft: anyway, windows finally finished its thing, so i was able to finally dimension my drawings
01:02 PM roycroft: you don't, thorian
01:02 PM roycroft: if you want to use solidworks commercially it's about $5k
01:02 PM roycroft: $20 is for the student version
01:03 PM roycroft: i'll use freecad when it has an official assembly workbench
01:03 PM roycroft: i don't know if the path workbench would work for me in its present form
01:03 PM roycroft: my needs are not that great, so it may be fine
01:03 PM Thorhian: Yeah, that's what I thought. Right now the closest you will get to an official one is using Real Thunder's fork of freecad.
01:04 PM roycroft: i sound like a broken record when i discuss freecad here
01:04 PM roycroft: so i'll stop discussing it and refer folks to the channel logs if they want to know what i have to say about it
01:04 PM roycroft: most of which i just said :)
01:05 PM roycroft: right now it's time to head to the shop, put the camping gear away, and then get some work done
01:06 PM Thorhian: In 0.19, Freecad's path workbench changed it's toolbit system. Under the hood it seems to be a better system by far but creating new tools with it is extremely clunky and still limited. 2.5D stuff works somewhat well. Anything beyond that is a nightmare. F360 and other commercial CAM stuff is still lightyears beyond it unfortunately.
01:19 PM Thorhian: So right now I'm trying to tinker with the gmoccapy example in LCNC, and I was wondering where the loadrt statement for the spindle component is located? I'm pretty new at this and I would like to use the "gears=" parameter to adjust the RPM scale coming from my spindle encoder (There is gearing between the spindle servo and the spindle itself).
01:31 PM roycroft: the vast majority of cnc work i intend to do will be 2d, with a small amount of 2.5d
01:31 PM roycroft: of course, once i have a cnc mill and/or router that may change
01:32 PM Tom_L: what's the difference between 2d and 2.5d?
01:33 PM Thorhian: I think 2.5D is different from 2D because of pockets and features that are different depths. 2D is essentially what you get from a laser or plasma cutter.
01:33 PM Tom_L: i still consider that 2d
01:34 PM Thorhian: *shrug* There is a difference.
01:34 PM Tom_L: i get it
01:34 PM Tom_L: flat patterns opposed to flat pockets etc
01:34 PM roycroft: i consider 2d where all the z axis features are at the same depth
01:35 PM roycroft: either blind milled/routed or through milled/routed
01:36 PM roycroft: i'm not saying my definition is the best
01:36 PM roycroft: or even the most common
01:36 PM roycroft: but it's how i understand the processes
01:36 PM Tom_L: i think most cad is either 2.5d or full 3d
01:38 PM Rab: Wikipedia has an opinion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.5D_(machining)
01:39 PM Tom_L: i just brought it up for conversation
01:39 PM Tom_L: i'm aware
01:40 PM Rab: I guess the .5D is because with standard milling, you can operate in the positive coordinate space over the plane of the machine, but not in the negative space (obviously).
01:40 PM Tom_L: i've never used it but sheetcam is probably purely 2d
01:43 PM roycroft: i think the wikipedia opinion mostly jives with how i look at it
01:49 PM MrHindsight[m]: New 4d and 5d CAM with hyperspace! 100% enclosed spaces are a problem no more.
03:07 PM Thorhian: Does anyone know how to change loadrt params for the spindle component? It seems to be loaded automatically by some other component in a typical config.
03:27 PM burklefoo: man spindle?
03:28 PM burklefoo: there is a spindle component (made to contrl spindle gearing and acceleration)
03:29 PM burklefoo: also motion itself creates the basic spindle pins and parameters
03:44 PM Tom_L: is that a new comp?
04:01 PM Thorhian: burklefoo: I learned about the component param because "man spindle". Maybe I am getting screwed up by motion and the spindle compenent never gets loaded at all.
04:03 PM burklefoo: Its confusing because both make pins/params that start with "spindle"
04:04 PM Thorhian: That is obnoxious... Now I'm wondering how I would use the spindle comp. when motion is already creating those pins.
04:05 PM W1N9Zr0: right, if you don't have a gearbox, you don't need the spindle component
04:05 PM JT-Shop: for a list of all pins in your configuration while it's running in a terminal do halcmd show pin > pins.txt
04:09 PM roycroft: i just ordered a new wood lathe
04:09 PM roycroft: i suppose i should pull out the old one and cl it
04:11 PM Thorhian: Will the spindle Comp and motion comp fight over control of the spindle if both are loaded?
04:12 PM burklefoo: No the full pin/param names are different
04:12 PM Thorhian: So just make sure I don't use motion's pins and I will be okay?
04:12 PM burklefoo: Actually you should use motions pins
04:13 PM burklefoo: the spindle comp adds acceleration limiting and gearing support, you need motions pins in any case
04:14 PM Thorhian: Ah, so it's basically a middle man comp. You use it and then connect it to the motion pins?
04:14 PM burklefoo: the actual control of the spindle is done with motion, and yes, the spindle comp is a "passthrough" comp
04:15 PM Thorhian: I see.
04:16 PM burklefoo: motion is not like most other comps since it has hidden connections to internal LinuxCNC functions
04:16 PM Thorhian: Makes sense, it needs lower level connections to actually drive the machine.
04:19 PM MrHindsight[m]: burklefoo: no Mesa cards available in China?
04:20 PM Thorhian: Aren't Mesa cards made in the USA?
04:20 PM MrHindsight[m]: I know they charge ~10% import duties there on anything and 10% of the shipping costs if that is more than the value of the items
04:21 PM MrHindsight[m]: jthornton-: yes
04:22 PM Tom_L: Thorhian, yes
04:22 PM Tom_L: afik
04:22 PM Tom_L: designed here anyway
04:24 PM MrHindsight[m]: maybe throw the Chinese a bone and give them a Ethernet STM32 card to make that just works with LinuxCNC
04:24 PM MrHindsight[m]: make/copy poorly
04:25 PM MrHindsight[m]: then someone there will port machinekit to run on windows to control the card
04:26 PM MrHindsight[m]: just my prediction, I might be wrong
04:42 PM burklefoo: We ship to China, though other than some OEM FPGA stuff I think we have more sales in Vietnam
04:43 PM burklefoo: (we have a new dealer there)
04:43 PM roycroft: do the chinese add a tracking chip as the boards go through customs? :)
04:44 PM * roycroft assumes that us customs replace the chinese tracking ship with the us tracking ship when pcbs arrive from china
04:46 PM roycroft: and chip, not ship, of course :)
04:46 PM Roguish: Oh Roycroft, you're off into the conspiracy land......
04:46 PM burklefoo: Ha! not that I have noticed. Not enjoying the 25% tariff on PCBs and connectors though
04:46 PM roycroft: i'm just mocking conspiracy land
04:46 PM burklefoo: might be some bamboo fibers
04:47 PM * JT-Shop takes a break from unloading the elm the heat index is 90°F
04:48 PM roycroft: it's 32 here, but i'm staying indoors today as much as possible
04:48 PM burklefoo: been cool and humid most of the summer here. Really bad for our garden (powdery mildew everywhere)
04:48 PM roycroft: our forecast high has been lowered to 35, thank goodness
04:49 PM JT-Shop: humidity is 55% so that helps a tiny bit
04:49 PM roycroft: it's been unusually humid here
04:49 PM JT-Shop: didn't get any work done on the cabinet today :(
04:49 PM roycroft: only 27% at the moment, but we've had hot days above 60% humidity
04:50 PM Roguish: we were up to 36, now down a bit to 33.3
04:50 PM roycroft: contrary to back east, in my part of the world the humidity is high in the winter and low in the summer
04:50 PM roycroft: it was 41 in eugene on wednesday
04:50 PM JT-Shop: speaking of gardens I have a whitefly infestation in the tomatoes
04:50 PM roycroft: i was on the southern oregon coast on wednesday - it was 17 there
04:51 PM roycroft: i really liked not being in eugene that day
04:52 PM burklefoo: We have whitefly on our tree collards. First time I've ever seen them in the garden
04:54 PM roycroft: i should haul a few things up to the attic
04:54 PM roycroft: i don't think i'll put everything away at once
04:54 PM roycroft: i would overheat if i tried doing so
04:55 PM roycroft: it's probably 50+ degrees up there
04:57 PM _unreal_: solarwind, sup
04:57 PM _unreal_: trying to figure out what I want to do
04:58 PM _unreal_: also found more PLC hardware at work the other day
04:58 PM _unreal_: god I have so many PLC units and add on's
04:58 PM _unreal_: anyone looking to use PLC hardware?$$??
05:06 PM JT-Shop: I stopped putting stuff in attics...
05:08 PM _unreal_: so you to the basement now?
05:10 PM roycroft: were that i had a basement
05:10 PM roycroft: i've thought about adding one
05:10 PM roycroft: it's a lot of work, and rather expensive
05:10 PM _unreal_: sigh
05:10 PM _unreal_: raining like a mofo suddenly
05:10 PM _unreal_: that storm is heading are way "florida"
05:10 PM roycroft: although perhaps not as expensive as it used to be
05:11 PM roycroft: the water table used to be just below the surface here
05:11 PM roycroft: it's much lower now
05:11 PM Tom_L: likely the cheapest addition you can do
05:11 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, added a basement to his house
05:11 PM roycroft: debian 11 was just released
05:12 PM roycroft: my house's foundation is cracked and need repair
05:12 PM roycroft: a basement would be a perfect way to effect that repair
05:12 PM roycroft: a basement would solve so many problems
05:12 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/house/1.jpg
05:12 PM Tom_L: dozer drove right thru!
05:12 PM roycroft: i'd have heaps of additional storage, and i could build a nice machine shop down there
05:13 PM roycroft: and have more room for the wood shop
05:13 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/house/9.jpg
05:14 PM Tom_L: they put posts under and pinned into the exhisting foundation
05:15 PM Tom_L: 12-15" thick
05:15 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/house/11.jpg
05:25 PM JT-Shop: damn wasp stung my wrist and it's a bit swollen
05:31 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, pretty small dozer?
05:32 PM JT-Shop: my guess is it was a loader with a bucket to dig out the dirt
05:32 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/house/2.jpg
05:32 PM Tom_L: yeah
05:36 PM Tom_L: certainly no D10
05:39 PM unterhaus: my criteria for a house is a walk-out basement, but that's no issue in Pennsylvania
05:40 PM Tom_L: too flat here for that
05:40 PM Tom_L: i'd have to build a hill first
05:42 PM JT-Shop: was that a JD 450?
05:43 PM Tom_L: i've no idea.. that was quite a long time ago
05:43 PM Tom_L: those pics were film :)
05:45 PM roycroft: basements are almost unknown around here
05:46 PM Tom_L: same back east
05:46 PM roycroft: primarily, i believe, because the water table was traditionally just below the surface
05:46 PM roycroft: in the chicago area, where i grew up, almost all the older homes had basements
05:47 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, looks like it may have been
05:47 PM roycroft: if i had a full basement i'd have room for a bridgeport class mill
05:49 PM roycroft: i found the manual for my old lathe
05:49 PM roycroft: now i just have to find the faceplate and sanding disc, and i'll be ready to sell it
05:50 PM roycroft: and i think i know where that stuff is
05:51 PM roycroft: i suppose i should upgrade one of my machies to debian 11 soon
05:52 PM JT-Shop: yeah it looked just like my 350 but tad bigger
05:52 PM roycroft: i have several vms that are not mission-critical, and can easily go back to a snapshot if the upgrade does not work, or some of the apps don't work
05:53 PM * JT-Shop has a few more things to put away after the logging adventure this afternoon
05:53 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, what you gonna do with elm?
05:54 PM JT-Shop: when it dries firewood, grows too fast in the summer so huge summer rings
05:54 PM JT-Shop: looks kinda cool with yellow wood
05:55 PM Tom_L: didn't think it made for good firewood
05:55 PM JT-Shop: well you can burn any wood that is dry, some are better than others
05:55 PM Tom_L: i've got an elm here with ~10' diameter trunk
05:55 PM JT-Shop: that's a bit one
05:55 PM JT-Shop: big
05:55 PM Tom_L: yeah
05:56 PM JT-Shop: just helped a buddy get it out of his yard
05:56 PM roycroft: try burning redwood some time
05:56 PM JT-Shop: otherwise I would not bother with it
05:57 PM JT-Shop: I have a bunch of red oak kindling and tiny bit of western red cedar kindling
05:57 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/patio/patio11.jpg
05:57 PM Tom_L: it's hiding in the background
05:57 PM JT-Shop: I'm going to use the crap red oak for rough projects
05:57 PM Tom_L: not in the greatest spot
05:58 PM JT-Shop: not possible to drop that in one piece for sure
05:58 PM JT-Shop: is that wood plastic coated?
05:58 PM Tom_L: i hope that never happens :)
05:58 PM roycroft: probably more like 50-100 pieces
05:58 PM Tom_L: no i painted it
05:58 PM Tom_L: ahead of assembly
05:59 PM JT-Shop: cool
06:00 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/patio/patio15.jpg
06:00 PM JT-Shop: it's pretty neat to watch a good arborist bring down a big tree from the top down
06:00 PM Tom_L: elm in foreground
06:00 PM Tom_L: i've done it but not for quite a while
06:00 PM JT-Shop: climbing trees is not in my vocabulary any more
06:00 PM Tom_L: nor mine
06:01 PM Tom_L: still have the ropes and harness..
06:01 PM Tom_L: and saws
06:01 PM JT-Shop: patio roof looks real nice
06:01 PM _unreal_: we dont climb treens in the south
06:01 PM _unreal_: to many "scarry" things
06:01 PM Tom_L: they would likely fall over
06:01 PM Tom_L: all that swampland
06:02 PM _unreal_: ? everything is hardwood
06:02 PM _unreal_: or palm
06:02 PM * JT-Shop goes to put the trailer away and park the truck
06:02 PM _unreal_: palms are a MOFO to remove
06:02 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, afterward i added a 3-4" I beam down the middle
06:02 PM _unreal_: are you irc'ing and driving?
06:02 PM JT-Shop: under the blocking?
06:02 PM Tom_L: yeah
06:03 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/patio/patio23.jpg
06:03 PM Tom_L: probably didn't need it but...
06:04 PM Tom_L: all the metal from the scrap yard
06:04 PM Tom_L: just happened to see that beam
06:06 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/patio/patio21.jpg
06:06 PM Tom_L: that covers the patio project, the tree and the basement after being closed in
06:09 PM _unreal_: can you guys access etsy.com
06:09 PM _unreal_: ?
06:10 PM Tom_L: i don't see why not
06:10 PM roycroft: i was there a short while ago
06:10 PM _unreal_: oh there it is
06:10 PM _unreal_: it was not loading
06:15 PM JT-Shop: that's stout
06:49 PM Tom_L: built to JT standards?
06:49 PM Tom_L: :)
06:50 PM JT-Shop: over built heh
09:54 PM snakedLX is now known as snaked