#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 20 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:19 AM Deejay: moin
01:39 AM randy: morning
04:03 AM Tom_L: morning
04:06 AM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
04:08 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:11 AM XXCoder: man that c-log keeps slacking off heh
06:07 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:21 AM JT-Mobile: morning
06:21 AM XXCoder: heys
06:39 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:39 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:04 PM roycroft: the bootleg fire is growing rapidly now
01:05 PM CloudEvil: :/
01:06 PM roycroft: almost 400,000 acres now - half the size of rhode island
01:27 PM solarwind: If I have a regular spring made out of spring steel (for example a garage door spring), does leaving it in the "compressed" position anyhow affect its spring constant or its ability to store energy?
01:28 PM solarwind: Let's say I'm storing it in the compressed position for 100 years and I'm operating within its operating parameters. That is, not exceeding the yield point
01:29 PM solarwind: I know aluminum doesn't work that way and has limited fatigue cycles, but not sure about steel
01:30 PM roycroft: things like car/truck springs operate compressed sometimes for decades - they usually outlast the rest of the vehicle
01:30 PM roycroft: coil springs, that is
01:30 PM roycroft: leaf springs tend to crack over time, but that time is again measured in decades
01:31 PM solarwind: roycroft is that because of the shape or is there something else going on?
01:32 PM roycroft: i'm not an expert on vehicle springs, but i'd speculate that leaf springs are generally somewhat harder than coil springs, which would make them more prone to cracking
01:32 PM roycroft: it's not a function of the shape, per se, but the metallurgy and heat treatment process
01:33 PM solarwind: Ah ok, I'm guessing they make them harder because of the travel distance of each leaf is much more than each "layer" of the coil
01:33 PM roycroft: with leaf springs it may also be due to more localized stresses
01:34 PM solarwind: But thanks, that makes me feel better overall
01:34 PM roycroft: but again, i'm no expert
01:34 PM roycroft: i'm just making observations and speculating
01:37 PM Roguish_shop: solarwind, is the spring just compressed, or is it being cycled?
01:38 PM solarwind: Roguish_shop just sitting compressed, cycled occasionally. But again, always within its operating range, not beyond the yield point
01:39 PM solarwind: I have an old recurve bow from the 1970s and you're supposed to keep that unstrung, but that's because it's made of wood
01:39 PM Roguish_shop: if just compressed. shouldn't bother it. if cycled then fatigue comes in.
01:39 PM roycroft: this is assuming that it's a spring designed for compression, not for tension
01:40 PM Roguish_shop: steel, will depending upon type, allow, etc. creep over time. but that is very related to the stored stored condition.
01:40 PM solarwind: Roguish_shop I've read that steel has "infinite" fatigue cycles
01:40 PM roycroft: some steels, perhaps
01:40 PM roycroft: but not all
01:40 PM solarwind: When operated in in the first part of stress/strain graph
01:41 PM Roguish_shop: fatigue life is dependent upon the stress/strain level. the closer to yield strength, the lower the fatigue limit.
01:41 PM solarwind: Roguish_shop oh, so so the yield point isn't like a relatively hard limit? It's a soft gradient approaching the yield point?
01:42 PM Roguish_shop: if very lightly stressed, then yes, could well be infinite life.
01:42 PM solarwind: Ok! I think I understand it now
01:42 PM solarwind: Thanks all!
01:43 PM Roguish_shop: stress strain curve goes up linear then bends over. the bend ppoint is the yield level.
01:43 PM solarwind: Another OT question: I see cast iron welding electrodes are mostly nickel, like nickel 55 and nickel 99 which is 99% (!?!?) nickel
01:43 PM Roguish_shop: check wikipedia
01:43 PM solarwind: Then I see other ones that are "nickel-free" and also labelled as not carcinogenic
01:43 PM solarwind: Does that mean the nickel ones are carcinogenic?
01:43 PM Roguish_shop: don't know too much on weld rods....
01:44 PM Roguish_shop: yeah, don't shoot em up.
01:45 PM Roguish_shop: in California, almost everything is carcinogenic....lol
01:45 PM solarwind: I don't intend to shoot them or subject them to any kind of stress that could fracture them. I just want to fill in some worn areas on my old vise
01:45 PM Roguish_shop: go for it.
01:46 PM solarwind: I've never heard anything about the ER70 fillers being carcinogenic. Not sure why the word came up in the description specifically for cast iron rods
01:47 PM Roguish_shop: don't know. just know all the fumes are nasty. blow 'em away.... hold your breath.
01:48 PM solarwind: Sorry, should have clarified this is TIG. I don't get any fumes in general. I also have a PAPR helmet. My concern is for lingering fumes after I take the helmet off. For example, I know stainless steel welding carries a risk of inhaling hexavalent chromium
01:49 PM Roguish_shop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress%E2%80%93strain_curve
01:49 PM solarwind: Yup, I read that. Just wanted to clarify
02:00 PM Roguish_shop: no problem, all good questions...
02:55 PM perry_j1987: g'afternoon
03:02 PM perry_j1987: https://www.amazon.com/GBJ-SPB26-2-Grooving-Slotting-Cut-Off/dp/B08MXLM146/ref=sr_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=Gtn-2&qid=1626810459&sr=8-13 how does this hold these inserts...
03:08 PM roycroft: i haven't used a cutoff tool like that, but it looks like there are keys in the edges of the inserts - i should imagine they just wedge into the tool
03:20 PM perry_j1987: looks like it could just slide back in more
03:21 PM roycroft: until it bottoms out
03:31 PM enleth: perry_j1987: it's a wedge, the top and bottom edges are not parallel
03:31 PM perry_j1987: ya i know how it retains side to side
03:31 PM perry_j1987: but front and back im wondering
03:32 PM enleth: no, I was talking about front and back
03:32 PM enleth: the seat in the holder is tapered
03:33 PM enleth: tge more it tries to slide back in, the more it expands the holder, which causes it to grip with more force
03:34 PM enleth: it stops sliding in when those forces balance out each other
03:39 PM perry_j1987: ah
03:39 PM perry_j1987: that sounds like your measurement would change in x then heh
03:41 PM skunkworks: andypugh: great video!
03:42 PM skunkworks: I asked a question on the video too..
03:44 PM andypugh: perry_j1987: I am rather a fan of: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124811498113
03:44 PM andypugh: Though I ended up making my own shank on a Multifix blank.
03:44 PM enleth: perry_j1987: yes, it would, but it's strictly a cutoff tool, so it should be inconsequential
03:45 PM XXCoder: did i miss a video by andy
03:46 PM perry_j1987: https://amzn.to/3eziqVx i have ones like this right now
03:46 PM perry_j1987: they say they are useable for sideways cutting too
03:46 PM enleth: perry_j1987: it's not even meant for grooving, and definitely not for any operations that induce sideways forces
03:46 PM perry_j1987: "enlargening" a groove etc
03:47 PM enleth: but they can take more abuse than some screw-locked cutoff tool styles
03:47 PM andypugh: XXCoder: You did, and I even uploaded a transcript for you.
03:48 PM XXCoder: odd, it didnt show up in rss feed, or did you mean I didnt miss it? :)
03:49 PM andypugh: It was posted several seconds ago.
03:51 PM enleth: perry_j1987: I don't have good experience with MGMN, the insert tip likesbto snap off and get pulled between the holder's heel and the workpiece, chewing up the heel
03:52 PM perry_j1987: i've had that experience too with them
03:53 PM XXCoder: oh no wonder, rss feed check each 2 hours. lemme refresh
03:54 PM enleth: also, the other side of a broken MGMN insert is close to useless, the thing is easily pushed too far into the holder
03:54 PM XXCoder: awesome start to video
03:55 PM XXCoder: odd, video just stops for a bit
03:56 PM XXCoder: captions keeps going
03:57 PM andypugh: Yes, I had more to say than I had footage to say it over.
03:57 PM XXCoder: no problem at all
03:58 PM andypugh: Though, really, it should be byte-age rather than foot-age
03:58 PM perry_j1987: enleth ya i was thinking of ordering one of these https://amzn.to/3zhews5 for that reason
03:58 PM XXCoder: some terms will be forever and confuse future generations
04:00 PM XXCoder: lately youtube is so late on autocaptions :(
04:00 PM XXCoder: i have to save video links till captions comes in
04:01 PM XXCoder: if they are autocaptioning only "popular" videos, which means they are essentally saying "nah deaf dont watch those"
04:01 PM XXCoder: though olviously its not actually the case its just annoying
04:01 PM andypugh: It struggles a but with my voice anyway (though it has got a _lot_ better sice my first video, where the autocaptions made literaly no sense at all. At one point it thought that I said “wrinkled popes” when I said “encoder”)
04:01 PM XXCoder: heh few years ago yeah it was bad
04:02 PM CloudEvil: XXCoder: I have a pixel 4a. On it, and I assume later pixels, the inbuilt autocaptioning is really, really, really good.
04:02 PM XXCoder: yea though my pc dont have speakers :D
04:02 PM CloudEvil: You can caption both viewed video, or anything that hits the mic.
04:19 PM _unreal_: so whats new
04:20 PM Tom_L: andypugh, i missed the link...
04:20 PM _unreal_: I could be wrong but it looks like SNDL is finally getting ready to TAKE OFF (stocks)
04:21 PM andypugh: Tom_L There was no link. https://youtu.be/t48TnJQtbCw
04:22 PM Tom_L: i found it, thanks
04:22 PM XXCoder: https://pressemitteilungen.pr.uni-halle.de/index.php?modus=pmanzeige&pm_id=5273
04:23 PM XXCoder: thats a lot of power
04:23 PM XXCoder: lets see if it comes to exist
04:30 PM CloudEvil: Does that fail to provide an actual %?
04:30 PM XXCoder: factor of 1000
04:49 PM CloudEvil: From 1ppm, or 1%.
05:14 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:48 PM perry_j1987: thinking i should finally order those er collet holders straight shank
05:48 PM perry_j1987: and finish making a full blown gang tooling block for this lathe
05:49 PM CloudEvil: :)
05:50 PM perry_j1987: need to take a look at how they did the axis cause im sure i could get quite a bit more travel out of X
05:57 PM roycroft: more travel can mean more wobble
06:06 PM perry_j1987: lathe is always cutting on most supported portion though
06:14 PM perry_j1987: well interesting..
06:14 PM perry_j1987: found a pneumatic 5c collet chuck for under 200
06:14 PM perry_j1987: *thinks to himself about having that and a bar puller on the lathe haha
06:41 PM JT-Mobile: interesting andypugh used a jointers mallet to assemble a gill punch
07:07 PM * roycroft just survived a semi-scary table saw cut, and can still count to ten using only his fingers
07:07 PM XXCoder: whew
07:08 PM roycroft: the workpiece was clamped to the miter gauge, but i still had to kind of support it with my fingers fairly near the blade
07:08 PM roycroft: it probably wasn't that scary, but i like to keep my fingers at least 100mm away from the blade while the saw is running
07:09 PM roycroft: and i was a little closer than that just now
07:09 PM roycroft: but i could not figure out a way to fixture it better in a reasonable amount of time
07:09 PM roycroft: in other news, smoke from the bootleg fire has reached the eastern seaboard
07:10 PM roycroft: and the fire is now creating its own weather system
07:12 PM JT-Mobile: wow
07:12 PM roycroft: yeah
07:12 PM XXCoder: sucks
07:12 PM roycroft: it's the third largest fire in oregon history, and will probably become the largest by the time it's contained
07:13 PM roycroft: and i remember the two larger ones - the largest was only 20 years ago
07:14 PM JT-Mobile: I cut my hand pretty bad on my crapsman table saw when I was packing to move to Missouri
07:14 PM roycroft: so my advise to you ,jt-mobile, is to keep heading east
07:14 PM JT-Mobile: 1/8" ply went under the fence and sucked my hand across the blade
07:14 PM roycroft: i haven't injured myself on a table saw since i was working in a boat factory in the '80s
07:14 PM roycroft: eek
07:15 PM XXCoder: ow
07:15 PM JT-Mobile: blade was pretty low so only a dozen or so stitches
07:15 PM roycroft: i have a lot of respect for teble saws
07:15 PM XXCoder: im always concerned with injuries to my hands
07:15 PM XXCoder: i do stuff with it, like lift stuff, talk with people
07:16 PM roycroft: and i did spend about 10 minutes thinking about this particular cut before i went ahead and made it
07:16 PM JT-Mobile: for me anymore if it looks dicey I find another way
07:16 PM roycroft: it was an extremely acute angle - 67.5 degrees
07:17 PM roycroft: that was the main issue
07:17 PM roycroft: at an angle like that the workpiece tends to slide down in the miter gauge
07:17 PM roycroft: i clamped it at the far end, but because of the angle i could not clamp it at the blade end
07:18 PM JT-Mobile: my miter thingy has non slip stuff with tiny rock chips it looks like
07:18 PM roycroft: the chance of it getting grabbed and sucked down by the blade was almost nil
07:18 PM roycroft: but the chance of it vibrating a little and messing up the cut a bit was real, and i needed it to be as perfect as possible
07:20 PM roycroft: what i had going for me is that it was beech that i was cutting, and there's no grain issues that would tend to make the blade grabby - that wood is very consistent in density and texture
07:21 PM JT-Mobile: I've never seen any beech I don't thin
07:21 PM JT-Mobile: k
07:21 PM roycroft: you have
07:21 PM roycroft: i promise
07:21 PM roycroft: many wooden planes were made of beechwood
07:21 PM roycroft: a lot of laminated wood furniture is beech
07:22 PM roycroft: a lot of workbenches are beech
07:22 PM JT-Mobile: I thought they used sika spruce for planes
07:22 PM roycroft: beech is really common
07:22 PM JT-Mobile: planes as in bench plane or planes as in flying
07:22 PM roycroft: if you've ever seen any german planes made by ece, they are beech on top and lignum vitae on the bottom
07:22 PM roycroft: woodworking planes
07:23 PM roycroft: i wasn't even thinking about airplanes :)
07:23 PM JT-Mobile: I watched Roy use a lot of wooden planes
07:23 PM roycroft: but you're correct, sitka spruce was common for wooden airplanes
07:23 PM Tom_L: beech is a pretty hard wood
07:23 PM roycroft: it is
07:23 PM roycroft: it's also very stable
07:23 PM Tom_L: spruce is alot more grainy
07:23 PM roycroft: and very even density
07:24 PM roycroft: properties that are desirable when making things like woodworking planes
07:24 PM Tom_L: sitka spruce is known for it's desireable musical properties
07:24 PM JT-Mobile: I built some ribs for a plane with sika spruce... hmm it was a corben baby ace single seater
07:24 PM roycroft: yes, it's used for soundboards a lot
07:25 PM roycroft: it has very even grain
07:25 PM Tom_L: my friend i talk about quite often.. his dad had the largest stearman parts supply around and when he was around, rebuilt stearman planes
07:25 PM JT-Mobile: I made a planing stop from two 5/16" flat head socket cap screws
07:25 PM Tom_L: he had a gal that would come in and do all the needlework on them
07:26 PM roycroft: that would work great, jt-mobile
07:26 PM roycroft: and really easy to recess
07:26 PM JT-Mobile: on my 5' x 5' 1" thick steel workbench
07:26 PM JT-Mobile: it did work very well
07:27 PM roycroft: i got a planing stop from benchcrafted, but i've not installed it yet
07:27 PM JT-Mobile: trying to break down the red oak to as much decent wood as I can
07:27 PM roycroft: i got it when i got my vise hardware, but decided i wanted to let the bench "settle in" for a couple years before installing the planing stop
07:27 PM JT-Mobile: the table was a machine base in a previous life
07:28 PM roycroft: the bench hasn't moved very much
07:28 PM JT-Mobile: so plenty of tapped holes in it
07:28 PM roycroft: last winter i could not pull the filler out that i use between the two halves for a planing stop
07:28 PM roycroft: this spring i could remove it again
07:29 PM roycroft: but the bench dogs are fairly tight to their holes, and i've had no problem popping them up and down, not even during the middle of winter, when it's the wettest around here
07:29 PM JT-Mobile: nice
07:30 PM roycroft: the filler strip i should probably run through the thicknesser to take off a tiny bit, like 1/16" or less, so that maybe i can remove it in the winter
07:30 PM roycroft: or i could just take it out in the fall, when the rainy season starts, and not use it again until spring
07:31 PM roycroft: it kind of sucked last winter because one of the really great features of the bench i built, and really the main reason i built that design, was the split in the middle
07:32 PM roycroft: i use that for clamping all the time, but i could not use it at all last winter
07:33 PM JT-Mobile: make one filler for dry season and one for wet season
07:35 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:45 PM roycroft: the one i have fits fairly snugly in the dry season
07:45 PM roycroft: planing it down a wee bit will probably be fine
07:46 PM XXCoder: cant seal it fully?
07:46 PM roycroft: it's not the filler that moves - it's the bench
07:46 PM roycroft: and nothing is going to stop the bench from moving
07:47 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Bench/Bench-Finished-1.jpeg
07:47 PM roycroft: that is my workbench
07:47 PM roycroft: the walnut piece in the middle is the filler
07:48 PM roycroft: the two halves are secured very firmly to the legs
07:48 PM roycroft: so when the top moves seasonally, the two halves move towards each other, pinching the filler
07:49 PM roycroft: the way the filler is installed, it's flush with the top, and i can use the slots to hold tools while i'm working
07:49 PM roycroft: if i remove the filler and rotate it 180 degrees and set it ack in, it stands proud of the benchtop by about 1/4", and i can use it as a planing stop
07:50 PM XXCoder: ahh ok
07:51 PM roycroft: the end cap is secured to the benchtop by the dovetails on the outer ends, and with a couple bolts on the inside
07:51 PM roycroft: the bolt holes have elongated slots so they can move
07:51 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Bench/End-Cap-Bolt-1.jpeg
07:52 PM roycroft: in that picture the bench top is upside down - the steel cylinder is the "nut" for the bolt, and it is inserted through the bottom of the bench top
07:53 PM Tom_L: one would hate to do work on that bench for fear of marring it
07:54 PM roycroft: it has battle scars
07:54 PM roycroft: fortunately it took the first hit a few days after i put it in service
07:54 PM roycroft: so i did not worry about that for long
07:54 PM roycroft: i really like it though
07:54 PM roycroft: it is very very heavy
07:55 PM XXCoder: very nice
07:55 PM roycroft: i do not feel i'm wasting my energy when i pound on something - the bench does not move at all
07:55 PM roycroft: with my old bench if i were cutting a mortise i'd waste half my energy moving the bench instead of the mortise chisel
07:57 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Bench/Bench-Top-Installed-1.jpeg
07:57 PM roycroft: i don't have any pictures of the bench top without the filler strip after it was finished
07:57 PM roycroft: but there it is right after i installed the top pieces
07:59 PM roycroft: i thought about using beech for the primary wood for my bench, but i'm really happy i decided to use ash instead
09:45 PM skunkworks: out of all the machines I have used - the table saw is still the scariest for me...
09:47 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, how about a 1" shank table router
10:16 PM roycroft: i'd rather use a shaper than a funky molding knife setup in a table saw, from a safety perspective
10:16 PM roycroft: but the most dangerous tool in a shop, and the one that causes the most injuries, is not what any you likely think
10:16 PM roycroft: it is a box cutter
10:19 PM t4nk_freenode: in the hands of Gus Fring it most certainly is.
10:21 PM Tom_L: roycroft, that's exactly what i was thinking
10:36 PM roycroft: you are someone i would expect to think that, if anyone here, tom_l
10:40 PM roycroft: i ordered a book that was shipped from los angeles on 6 july
10:40 PM roycroft: it just arrived back in los angeles
10:40 PM roycroft: i wonder where it snuck off to for 2+ weeks
10:41 PM Tom_L: on vacation
10:41 PM roycroft: that's what i'm thinking
10:42 PM roycroft: it took a trip down the baja peninsula
11:44 PM XXCoder: took a wonderful swim?