#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 16 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:07 AM Deejay: moin
01:37 AM randy: morning
02:15 AM XXCoder: moauing
04:15 AM Tom_L: morning
05:35 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:35 AM XXCoder: yo
07:55 AM JT-Cave: what is a nema 17 bolt?
08:02 AM CloudEvil: A bolt for a NEMA 17 stepper?
08:14 AM alex_joni: a bolt the size of a NEMA17 stepper
08:32 AM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
08:57 AM enleth: XXCoder: mcmaster carr? those are normal allen bolts, just quite long, aren't they?
09:02 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:38 AM glguy_ is now known as glguy
10:54 AM {HD}: anyone running one of those small/cheap chinese machines? I want something to run small parts on while the big machine is running big/long jobs.
10:54 AM {HD}: I want something that isn't just an engraver though.
11:02 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:13 AM enleth: {HD}: plotter or actual mill?
11:14 AM enleth: {HD}: anyway look for stuff used by some youtuber, you'll basically get an extended video review of the machine in the form of youtube project videos
11:14 AM enleth: then hope the unit you get from aliexpress is the same thing they got x years/months earlier
11:17 AM {HD}: Yea thats the prob since they are all called the same thing unless they specify the seller your just guessing.
12:10 PM roycroft: hi folks
12:11 PM roycroft: i have spent a fair amount of time looking at the lowrider cnc router, and i think a design similar to that would work well for me
12:11 PM roycroft: the lowrider uses an arduino with a driver board piggybacked on it, which i would rather not use
12:12 PM roycroft: i already have a linuxcnc computer and the components to drive my mill/drill when i finally get that converted to cnc, and i'd rather just use that machine - i designed it such that it's on a roll-around 19" rack, and would be able to be plugged into mulitple machines to save floor space and expense
12:13 PM roycroft: my question is this: the lowrider has a self-squaring/self-leveling feature, where it adjusts the gantry ends at each end of the machine to square things up
12:13 PM roycroft: is that easy to do with linuxcnc?
12:15 PM roycroft: this machine will be assembled/disassembled with almost every use, so squaring it up quickly and easily is rather important, and since the bed itself is the x or y axis (depending on how you look at it), it will need adjustment every time it's assembled
12:19 PM {HD}: roycroft: looks like an interesting build. Why did you go that route? Whats a build cost for something like that?
12:20 PM roycroft: i don't have room for a cnc router
12:20 PM roycroft: but i have a big router table that it could sit on top of
12:20 PM burklefoo: Gantry homing is built-in in linuxCNC 2.8 and >
12:20 PM roycroft: cool, that gets me over a big hurdle
12:20 PM roycroft: thanks
12:21 PM roycroft: i haven't calculated a built cost yet, {hd}
12:21 PM roycroft: but if i can use the electronics that i already have for my mill/drill cnc conversion the cost should be minimal
12:21 PM roycroft: probably <$500
12:22 PM roycroft: i have a dewalt trim router that i could use as the spindle initially, but i'd probably want to get an 80mm 3phase spindle and vfd eventually, so that adds another $350
12:23 PM roycroft: i don't know how often i'll use it, but if it's really rarely, i might even consider pulling the spindle out of my router table and installing it in the cnc router when i need to cnc something
12:24 PM roycroft: that would be a fair amount of work, so a dedicated spindle would probably be what i want to do
12:25 PM roycroft: i have a solution for tracking the gantry - my initial thought was to add a little toe-in to the gantry rollers to keep them tracking straight, but i realised that the toe-in would also be toe-out half the time
12:25 PM roycroft: but i could route some parallel v grooves in the base, top and bottom, and the gantry wheels could track in those
12:26 PM roycroft: i need very little z height, so i could build the gantry low for stability
12:30 PM {HD}: Seems like a cool build and would probably solve my problem too. I have all the parts except the pipe to make one of those now…
12:30 PM {HD}: Neat…
12:30 PM roycroft: my use will be for making jigs and fixtures, not finished parts
12:31 PM roycroft: so even if it's not dead accurate it should be able to do what i need
12:31 PM roycroft: it's so far the only solution i've seen that requires zero extra real estate in the shop
12:34 PM roycroft: i don't like all the 3d-printed parts on it, and would never build exactly that machine, but the basic design is interesting and, i think, something i can use
12:40 PM JT-Shop: you going to mount a spoil board on top of the router table?
12:43 PM roycroft: of course
12:44 PM roycroft: i'll probably install some threaded inserts into the router table top, and then i can easily install and remove a spoil board repeatedly
12:45 PM JT-Shop: cool
12:45 PM roycroft: yeah, if i can get the details worked out, this should be easy to install/remove, and store very compactly
12:46 PM roycroft: i think aiming for a 10 minute installation/calibration time is where i want to be, and that should be doable if it's designed well
12:50 PM roycroft: i just remembered that i have a roto-zip that i haven't used in probably 20 years
12:51 PM roycroft: that might make a good temporary spindle
12:51 PM roycroft: if it still works
12:51 PM _methods: those damn things are so loud
12:51 PM roycroft: they are
12:51 PM roycroft: i have good noise-cancelling earmuffs
12:51 PM _methods: that works
12:51 PM roycroft: i think the roto-zip has a 1/8" spindle
12:51 PM _methods: it always amazes me how loud they are
12:52 PM roycroft: so i'd be somewhat limited in mycutters
12:52 PM roycroft: universal motors like teh noise
12:52 PM roycroft: they're like the harley-davidsons of spindles
12:52 PM _methods: used to work with a guy who insisted on using one of those damn things to do outlet cut outs in cabinets
12:52 PM roycroft: except not built as well
12:53 PM _methods: he would drive me insane with that thing instead of just using a jigsaw like a normal human being
12:53 PM roycroft: my router table is just a mock-up that made several years ago
12:53 PM _methods: unfortunately for him his motor burned out on it
12:53 PM roycroft: intending to rebuild it properly, with nice drawers and the like
12:53 PM _methods: and luckily for me
12:54 PM roycroft: i haven't gotten around to that yet, but i have a few hundred dollars stashed away in a bank account for the rebuild
12:54 PM roycroft: roto-zips are nice if you're installing sheet goods over a wall that already has receptacle boxes
12:55 PM roycroft: quick and easy, and no measuring required
12:55 PM roycroft: but loud and messy
12:55 PM roycroft: that's the tradeoff
12:57 PM roycroft: the thing is with the router table, the table top is the one part that i built really well, and intended to migrate to the new base when i did the final build, and i'd probably want to rebuild the top if i use it for the cnc router
12:57 PM roycroft: but there are a couple things i'd have done differently if i rebuilt the top, so this could be the opportunity to make those improvements
01:13 PM roycroft: the big reason i'd want to remake the top is that the edge pieces, where i would route the gantry tracking grooves, are made of ash, and that's a very open grain wood that's hard to make really smooth
01:14 PM roycroft: but if i milled the v grooves a bit deeper i could line them with aluminium or stainless steel angle, and that should track beautifully
01:14 PM * roycroft sees many hours of cad work in his near future
02:22 PM * Tom_L clocks out for the week
02:32 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:32 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:01 PM perry_j1987: hmm
03:01 PM perry_j1987: should i just drill and ream some holes in the t-slot bed of this 6040
03:02 PM perry_j1987: for these fixtures
03:14 PM roycroft: a bit over a week ago my garage door opener started grinding
03:14 PM roycroft: i determined that the main drive gear was stripping out, so i ordered a new one
03:15 PM roycroft: it arrived yesterday, and i went out to install it a short while ago, only to have the gear housing crumble when i touched it
03:15 PM roycroft: i can't find any garage door openers for <$200 that are rated for a single panel door, like mine, so i ordered a new gear housing
03:16 PM roycroft: i can open/close the door if i need to, with manual assistance, but i'm trying to avoid that as much as possible, as it's a hassle, and the grinding gets worse
03:16 PM roycroft: and now that the gear housing has crumbled, i don't even think that would work
03:17 PM roycroft: i wanted to work on my mill/drill last weekend, but could not because i needed to move some equipment outside to do the work, and now i can't do it this weekend either
03:21 PM {HD}: roycroft: I just watched a video about that v1 that makes me want to try a different project.
03:30 PM roycroft: a couple weeks ago i wasn't even considering a cnc router, due to my space limitations, but someone here pointed me at the lowrider design, and now it's looking more and more like i'll actually build something similar to that, and soon
03:31 PM roycroft: i had just finished making some custom drawer pulls that required some fairly precise jigs, and while that went well, it took me quite a while to design and make the jigs
03:32 PM roycroft: i immediately realized that i needed multiple sets of jigs, as every length of drawer pull would benefit from a custom curvature
03:33 PM roycroft: and casually mentioned that a cnc router would come in handy for making those jigs, at which point i was directed to the lowerider design
03:37 PM {HD}: roycroft: I like the concept but I wan't something that is truly open source. This one guy on YT had issues making improvements to his because of the licensing.
03:37 PM {HD}: Now I would never run into that because I don't publicly display those types of things but still the principle of something like that seems like it should be full open.
03:51 PM roycroft: well if i build one it will be my own design
03:51 PM roycroft: i would not use any of the 3d printed parts from that particular machine
03:52 PM roycroft: unless some of the design elements are patented i don't think i should have any issues with licenses
03:58 PM roycroft: i don't see anything about patents on the website, so i doubt there are any patents on the design, pending or awarded
04:02 PM {HD}: The youtuber made some parts for the machine and made a video about it. The guy claimed that he made money from designing those parts because yt revenue and complained about it.
04:03 PM {HD}: anyway its not like the machine is anything special at all.
04:03 PM {HD}: I have some ball screw and linear bearing laying around so I would prob build something on top of that.
04:06 PM roycroft: the lowrider folks apparently did not patent the design, possibly because it is all based on prior art, so they really have no recourse if they publish the design openly without any patent protection and someone profits from a derivative work based on the original design
04:06 PM {HD}: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
04:09 PM Tom_L: roycroft, my housing also cracked so i got a new opener
04:10 PM Tom_L: tried fixing it once but no go
04:15 PM roycroft: well the least expensive one i found that is rated for my garage door was over $200
04:15 PM roycroft: and i'm thinking about getting rid of the door and framing in the opening anyway, so i don't want to spend much on the opener
04:16 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +o by ChanServ
04:16 PM roycroft: framing in the opening would not gain me any floor space, but i'd get some wall space that would be nice
04:16 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by Tom_L
04:16 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to -o by ChanServ
04:16 PM roycroft: i could put a 4' wide door in it and have plenty of room for moving machinery/materials in and out
04:17 PM roycroft: i'll see how it goes with the new gear housing
04:17 PM roycroft: it cost me $12 including shipping
04:17 PM roycroft: it will work or it won't
04:17 PM Tom_L: it won't last long
04:17 PM JT-Shop: what did you break?
04:17 PM Tom_L: chamberlain/liftmaster?
04:17 PM roycroft: genie
04:17 PM JT-Shop: ah
04:17 PM roycroft: then i should probably make up my mind about framing in the opening soon
04:17 PM JT-Shop: I have 3 of them and one liftmaster
04:18 PM Tom_L: i got a belt drive last time
04:18 PM Tom_L: actually i think the one that kept cracking was sears branded
04:18 PM Tom_L: forgot who actually made them
04:19 PM Tom_L: maybe your springs are too light
04:20 PM JT-Shop: the garage has screw drives and the machine shop is belt drive liftmaster
04:20 PM Tom_L: i've had screw drives in the past too
04:20 PM JT-Shop: you can test the springs easy enough just lift the door by hand
04:20 PM Tom_L: yeah, side mount are color coded by weight
04:20 PM Tom_L: dunno about the end mount type
04:21 PM JT-Shop: the liftmaster is very close to the ceiling as I have a 9' door in a 10' building
04:21 PM Tom_L: mine is too
04:21 PM JT-Shop: both shop doors are torsion spring type
04:21 PM Tom_L: i've never had that type
04:22 PM JT-Shop: it took me quite a few tries to get the big door springs set right...
04:23 PM roycroft: almost all the ones i found at the local stores and online state they're for sectional doors only, and mine is a single panel door
04:24 PM JT-Shop: I've not seen one like that in quite a while
04:24 PM * JT-Shop goes back to making wood chips
04:24 PM Tom_L: me either
04:24 PM roycroft: from an opener's perspective i think the big difference is that a single panel door moves vertically a lot more than a sectional when opening
04:25 PM roycroft: my house was built in the early '70s
04:25 PM roycroft: single panel doors were by far the most common back then
04:25 PM XXCoder: JT-Shop: hows those stokes machines? done now?
04:25 PM roycroft: except on real high-end houses
04:25 PM roycroft: a single panel door needs a lot more clearance than a sectional
04:26 PM roycroft: all the more reason to just get rid of it and frame in the opening
04:26 PM Tom_L: or get a sectional door
04:26 PM Tom_L: you might want to move something big in/out of it
04:27 PM roycroft: the other issue is that the foundation is cracked, and part of it has sunk a little
04:27 PM roycroft: it would be hard to install a new door and square it up
04:28 PM roycroft: and that's more of an issue with a sectional door than a single panel one
04:28 PM roycroft: plus, i don't want to spend $2k or so on a garage door
04:28 PM roycroft: a 4' wide person door would be big enough for anything i need to move in or out
04:29 PM roycroft: i'd locate that door on the side that's not sinking
04:29 PM roycroft: anyway, the first thing is to get the current opener working, if possible
05:00 PM JT-Shop: XXCoder, still waiting on them to make a modification to the spoke machine
05:00 PM JT-Shop: I'll be gone all next week...
05:00 PM XXCoder: cool :)
05:00 PM XXCoder: to install it, or is it unreated trip?
05:02 PM JT-Shop: the spoke machines are local, we are going with another couple to Gatlinburg
05:02 PM XXCoder: cool
05:02 PM Connor: Hey. JT-SHop, That's not far from me. :)
05:02 PM * JT-Shop has never seen any door wider than 3' except french doors
05:02 PM Connor: I'm in Knoxville.
05:03 PM JT-Shop: cool, we are staying a bit east of Gatlinburg
05:03 PM XXCoder: man I wish theres a plastic extruder thats between filastruder and $5000 machine
05:04 PM JT-Shop: Wednesday we are going across to Cherokee and west along the mountain then across the pass and back through Wears Valley to Pidgen Forge
05:05 PM JT-Shop: well back to the other shop to finish up the oak
05:05 PM JT-Shop: or rather work some more on it lol
05:12 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: you'd have to built it since most are just interested in cheap/low cost
05:12 PM XXCoder: yeah. too bad my skills isnt that amazing
05:12 PM CaptHindsight: and they won't get any better if yah donts try :)
05:14 PM XXCoder: lol that $5000 machine is interesting. it measures and adjust how hard it pulls on extruding plastic to size filament. CaptHindsight[m]
05:17 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: have a link to it?
05:17 PM XXCoder: a sec
05:17 PM CaptHindsight: cameras are so cheap now, it's easy to measure things quickly with them
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: how do they measure the thickness of the extruded strand?
05:18 PM XXCoder: trying to find video
05:18 PM XXCoder: it explains better than i can
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: mmmkay
05:19 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLF5-voMTYk
05:22 PM XXCoder: better one https://youtu.be/Dwlr2yKlq6w
05:22 PM XXCoder: last link just rushes though
05:25 PM CaptHindsight: yeah looks optical
05:25 PM CaptHindsight: similar to a laser micrometer
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: and since the target range is just 1.7-1.8mm it makes it really easy
05:26 PM XXCoder: more tight range is the better
05:26 PM XXCoder: 0.05 is bit rough but workable
05:27 PM XXCoder: tol
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: 1.75mm +- 0.05mm is easy to measure
05:33 PM XXCoder: yeah
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: light source --> filament --> camera
05:33 PM XXCoder: most of machine isnt too complex, but compression screw is hard
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: a good efficient screw is one thing, what they use is another story
05:36 PM CaptHindsight: camera has a field of view from 1.9 - 1.6mm, with 1000 line camera that works out to shorter than the wavelength of light used, so 1/3 micron
05:36 PM CaptHindsight: per pixel
05:37 PM CaptHindsight: so measuring +- 50 micron is easy
05:37 PM XXCoder: cool :)
05:37 PM XXCoder: sounds like you can make one
05:38 PM XXCoder: i suppose i can, using argur as screw, though it lacks compression part
05:38 PM CaptHindsight: they don't rely on the screw for generating heat, like a real extruder
05:39 PM XXCoder: compression is still needed for mixing
05:39 PM CaptHindsight: they use some type of electric heater
05:39 PM CaptHindsight: it's a lowbrow compounding extruder
05:40 PM CaptHindsight: a real extruder would use twin screws and combine the color and plastic in the barrel
05:41 PM CaptHindsight: for a low budget version that runs slowly compared to a real production extruder...
05:41 PM CaptHindsight: you can just melt the pellets and then mix and extrude using the budget screw
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: it works, just slowly and inefficiently
05:44 PM XXCoder: yeah
05:44 PM XXCoder: though for home recycling it'd serve well enough
05:44 PM XXCoder: plus i want to be able to mix up custom plastics lol
05:46 PM CaptHindsight: what happened to low cost SLS printers, I though the reprappers were going to make cheapo SLS units
05:47 PM XXCoder: companies.
05:47 PM XXCoder: eleego is just 200 usd
05:47 PM XXCoder: for fairly decent one, another $100 for wash and cure machine
05:47 PM XXCoder: its pretty hard to be able to go cheaper
05:48 PM CloudEvil: SLS is not quite resin
05:48 PM XXCoder: oops i misread it as sla
05:48 PM CaptHindsight: SLS is power and a laser
05:48 PM XXCoder: yeah no luck there so far
05:48 PM XXCoder: I know
05:48 PM CaptHindsight: heh powder
05:49 PM XXCoder: so far i know, there was $1000 one
05:49 PM XXCoder: very cheap
05:49 PM CloudEvil: wiping your balls over the surface evenly is hard.
05:49 PM XXCoder: for sls
05:49 PM XXCoder: but if i have sls i want to be able to use nylon and titanium powder
05:49 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: have a link to the $1k SLS?
05:49 PM XXCoder: nah project disappeared if i recall right
05:50 PM CaptHindsight: SLS for plastics and metals are two different beasts
05:50 PM XXCoder: yup
05:50 PM XXCoder: latter you need 30k machine
05:51 PM CaptHindsight: well Chinaco laser tubes are cheap
05:51 PM CaptHindsight: and don't always last very long
05:52 PM XXCoder: fun isnt it
05:52 PM CaptHindsight: 100-200w CO2 tubes aren't that much
05:52 PM CaptHindsight: galvo heads are cheap now
05:53 PM XXCoder: cheap to a given value of cheap
05:53 PM XXCoder: $100 to $200
05:53 PM XXCoder: it probably is possible to make $1000 sls but not really easy
05:54 PM CaptHindsight: for plastics
05:54 PM XXCoder: yep. no metal
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: lowbrow version could use a XY gantry vs galvo
05:56 PM CaptHindsight: $230 https://www.amazon.com/Scanner-RC1001-Aperture-Wavelength-Marking/dp/B093V5R64W/ref=sr_1_1
05:56 PM XXCoder: interesting
05:57 PM CaptHindsight: but since you need a powder spreader
05:57 PM CaptHindsight: 2 birds, 1 stone with a gantry for laser and spreader
05:58 PM XXCoder: yeah though if its to be wiper only it wont be too complex
06:01 PM CaptHindsight: powder hopper and spreader/levelererer
06:02 PM XXCoder: i wonder if can use hopper and screw to evenly make long pile against spreader
06:02 PM CaptHindsight: also needs to be filled with inert gas
06:02 PM XXCoder: then spreader just moves across
06:02 PM CaptHindsight: and it needs a powder bed heater
06:02 PM XXCoder: im pretty sure gas part is why theres no real sls hobby level
06:03 PM XXCoder: theres cheaper machines, but no "homemade"
06:03 PM CaptHindsight: you can do it without inert gas with plastic and without a heat but then the results aren't as spectacular
06:03 PM CaptHindsight: heat/heater
06:04 PM CaptHindsight: hasta banana
07:00 PM roycroft: i have completed round of the bramble offensive
07:01 PM roycroft: today i cleared out 3 more garden beds of blackberries, removed the beds, and mowed the area close to the ground
07:01 PM roycroft: that makes five beds done, with three left to go
07:01 PM roycroft: i'm actually ahead of schedule
07:01 PM XXCoder: nice. though blackberry is very hard to get rid of forever :(
07:01 PM roycroft: yes, but if i can mow it won't grow
07:01 PM XXCoder: true
07:02 PM roycroft: it's been such a problem in this part of my property because i used to garden there, and i had raised beds still there
07:02 PM roycroft: i could not mow that area at all
07:02 PM roycroft: i've made attempts over the past few years to cut back the blackberries, but they always had the upper hand
07:03 PM roycroft: now i'm removing the beds as i go, and i shall prevail
07:04 PM roycroft: my plan was, starting last friday, to clear 1/4 of the brambles per week, on successive fridays
07:05 PM roycroft: but i made so much progress today, i may try to push to get the rest done tomorrow
07:05 PM roycroft: especially since the temperature is only in the upper 20s today, and shall be tomorrow as well
07:05 PM roycroft: by friday next it could be in the mid 30s again
07:09 PM roycroft: well, the current forecast calls for a high of 31 on friday, but it will start warming mid-week, so that could easily go up by then
07:09 PM roycroft: and it's 28 right now, with a high of 28 again tomorrow
07:11 PM roycroft: besides just cleaning that area up once and for all, i have other incentive to get rid of the brambles - my '65 split window vw bus is parked back there amongst them, and i want to sell it
07:11 PM roycroft: i have to clear the blackberries before i can pull it out to clean it up and prepare it for sale
07:14 PM XXCoder: makes sense
07:16 PM roycroft: the bootleg fire is growing like crazy
07:17 PM roycroft: a thousand acres per hour
07:18 PM roycroft: it's only 7% contained, and firefighters have had to fall back from the firebreak lines several times because it's so hot and furious it's jumping the fire lines
07:19 PM roycroft: fortunately only 54 buildings have been destroyed so far, but over 5000 are still threatened, and that number continues to grow
07:19 PM XXCoder: man hope they contain it before those are destroyed
07:19 PM roycroft: it's a quarter million acres now
07:20 PM roycroft: it's not going to be contained for months
07:20 PM XXCoder: likely "naturally contained" then
07:20 PM XXCoder: with rains and such
07:20 PM roycroft: and fire season is just starting
07:20 PM roycroft: yes, that's what may finally contain it - the rains in late november
07:22 PM roycroft: that part of the state is rather arid though, so even in the winter there's not much rain, and it may not be contained until a very long time from now
07:23 PM roycroft: there is a desert just east of the fire
07:23 PM XXCoder: fire breaks may be only way to stop it
07:23 PM XXCoder: or backfires if thats controllable
07:23 PM roycroft: oregon, btw, is the only state in the country with both a desert and a rain forest
07:23 PM XXCoder: you sure? dont calfornia have it.. and wa state
07:24 PM XXCoder: wa i guess isnt arid enough on east side
07:24 PM roycroft: washington has rain forests but no desert
07:24 PM roycroft: california has deserts but no rain forest
07:25 PM XXCoder: youre right
07:25 PM XXCoder: i remember north calfornia being bit green but hardly rainforest
07:25 PM roycroft: parts of the coastal redwood forests in northern cali are pretty wet, but don't qualify as rain forest
07:28 PM XXCoder: ohh myfordboy reworking his heat fan thing
07:28 PM XXCoder: kyko fan
07:28 PM roycroft: i was able to tack on an extra day to my camping trip next month, where i'll stay on the southern oregon coast
07:29 PM roycroft: i may make a day trip to cali, since i'll be down there an extra day
07:29 PM roycroft: i haven't been down to arcata in 3 years
07:29 PM XXCoder: i last went to calfornia few months ago, but last time before that was when i was 13
07:33 PM roycroft: i usually make a trip down to humbolt/mendicino every other year or so
07:33 PM roycroft: pandemic times threw a monkey wrench into that
07:34 PM roycroft: since i got no vacation time last year, i have a lot accrued, and may take another camping trip in september or october
07:34 PM XXCoder: nice
07:34 PM roycroft: yeah
07:34 PM XXCoder: i had 200 days when i was laid off lol
07:34 PM roycroft: and camping in humbolt county in the fall is fine
07:34 PM XXCoder: so they paid all of it
07:35 PM roycroft: i get three weeks/year, but my boss didn't let me take any vacation time last year
07:35 PM roycroft: we were struggling to keep the business alive
07:35 PM roycroft: but he's letting me "catch up" on it
07:35 PM roycroft: so i get six weeks this year
07:35 PM roycroft: i've taken a week of fridays already, and i'm working on my second week of fridays
07:36 PM roycroft: next month i'll take a whole week off for my camping trip
07:36 PM roycroft: so i know you're a big advocate of keeping the drive system below the bed on a cnc router
07:36 PM roycroft: this lowrider design doesn't do that
07:36 PM roycroft: but i think i can make it work ok
07:37 PM XXCoder: got pic?
07:37 PM roycroft: i get your point of view on it
07:37 PM roycroft: https://www.v1engineering.com/lowrider-cnc/
07:37 PM XXCoder: yeah cnc router isnt a complex machine, my design is simply to simplify cleaning, by making design little bit more complex
07:37 PM roycroft: it uses the bed as the x or y axis, depending on how you look at it
07:38 PM roycroft: i need really low profile, and easily removable/installable
07:38 PM XXCoder: interesting design
07:38 PM roycroft: my plan is to mount the cnc router on top of my router table
07:38 PM roycroft: i want to be able to install/calibrate it in 10 minutes or so
07:38 PM roycroft: and remove it and store it just as quickly
07:39 PM roycroft: it's belt drive, and the belts are on the sides of the bed
07:39 PM roycroft: which, while not below the bed, is still better than on top, like many designs
07:39 PM roycroft: i just don't have the room for a cnc router
07:40 PM XXCoder: i still find it funny that bromsgrove greensand is red sand
07:40 PM roycroft: but if i can quickly and easily mount one on top of my router table, i have the room
07:40 PM XXCoder: yeah makes sense
07:40 PM roycroft: i would not build that machine
07:41 PM roycroft: but i would base my design on it, the main feature being using the bed as an axis
07:41 PM XXCoder: you could make movement system permently there and you mount or dismount gantru
07:41 PM XXCoder: similiar to lowrider but even easier
07:41 PM roycroft: the gantry is pretty much the router
07:41 PM XXCoder: yeah
07:42 PM roycroft: i'm thinking of milling some v grooves in my router table on the sides, top and bottom, and epoxying in some aluminium or stainless steel angle in the grooves, so i can easily and reliably align the gantry wheels
07:44 PM roycroft: and folks tell me that linuxcnc can now do auto bed levelling/squaring, so i'd ditch the arduino/merlin control system and just connect it to my linuxcnc computer and electronics
07:45 PM roycroft: i already have all that hardware
07:45 PM XXCoder: theres apparently MESA made to work with rpi4
07:45 PM XXCoder: so you could run lcnc on rpi4
07:45 PM roycroft: yeah, i've heard that there is now
07:45 PM roycroft: but i have a pc already for that
07:45 PM XXCoder: couple years now apparently
07:46 PM roycroft: i have an old 19" rack cart on wheels from an ancient ibm computer that is for my linuxcnc machine, power supplies/drivers, and control panel
07:47 PM roycroft: my plan all along has been to use that to control multiple cnc machines, one at a time, but just rolling it around the shop and plugging it into whatever i need to operate at the moment
07:47 PM XXCoder: cool :)
07:47 PM roycroft: so the router would be easy to add to the mix
07:47 PM XXCoder: limits to one machine a time but yeah
07:47 PM roycroft: i'm a one person shop at the moment
07:47 PM roycroft: and if i get to a point where i need to run more than one machine at a time i can always add something else
07:48 PM XXCoder: yeah though you can always upgrade to mesa with rpi4 in future for more simpler machine
07:48 PM roycroft: i do like having the rpi4 running octoprint to control my 3d printer
07:48 PM roycroft: and when i get another 3d printer i'll do the same thing
07:48 PM roycroft: there is a lot to be said for having dedicated electronics on each machine
07:48 PM XXCoder: i just setup rpi4 with octoprint. its pretty cool!
07:50 PM roycroft: yeah, i'm pretty happy with that setup
07:50 PM roycroft: my 3d printer lives in my fermentation room/electronics lab
07:50 PM roycroft: and i don't
07:50 PM roycroft: and i don't like hanging out there
07:50 PM roycroft: so i set up a webcam to monitor the printer, and i don't ever have to go there except to set up for a print and pick up the print when it's done
07:50 PM XXCoder: you can print abs asa or nylon just fine then (assuming machine can do it)
07:51 PM roycroft: i can sit in my office and spool a job, and monitor it
07:53 PM XXCoder: nice
07:55 PM roycroft: octoprint is supposed to be able to handle multiple printers, but i'm not sure how that will work, especially if i'm running a dedicated octoprint server on each printer
07:55 PM roycroft: i'm going to get 1 or 2 more 3d printers, and i'll eventually be running jobs on all of them simultaneously
08:01 PM XXCoder: nice!
08:01 PM XXCoder: im not sure how to make and sell stuyff from printer
08:01 PM CloudEvil: One firm I forget the name of made all your parts inside a 3dp dispatch envelope
08:02 PM roycroft: i'm not planning on selling parts made with the printer at this point in time, but i do have an idea that i think would work
08:02 PM XXCoder: cool :)
08:03 PM roycroft: i'd have to set up for printing nylon, but there are a lot of old car mechanisms such as wiper motors and the like that have nylon gears that wear out over time
08:03 PM roycroft: and there's really not much of an aftermarket for those, and when oem parts dry up, folks are stuck
08:04 PM roycroft: the market is not big enough to cost justify making in injection molds to reproduce those gears, but 3d printing seems a viable way to do it in small quantities
08:04 PM roycroft: i've probably shared too much of that idea already
08:04 PM roycroft: i have a list of parts that folks ask for that are nla, and i'll not share that list :)
08:05 PM Tom_L: awwww c'mon
08:05 PM XXCoder: work hard and probably will be successful
08:06 PM roycroft: but for right now i just have some stuff i want to print for in-house projects
08:06 PM CloudEvil: Imagine if right to repair meant once you stopped making parts you had to release the design files.
08:06 PM roycroft: i do want to be able to print nylon at some point
08:07 PM XXCoder: from what i learned nylon isnt too bad with full enclosure, and full sealed pathway from roll to hotend
08:07 PM roycroft: i'm so happy steve wozniack is pushing for right to repair legislation
08:07 PM roycroft: he has the clout to make it happen
08:07 PM XXCoder: indeed
08:07 PM XXCoder: i want it to be law
08:07 PM roycroft: and he's in the state that would be most likely to enact it first
08:08 PM XXCoder: not just gloss by president order
08:08 PM XXCoder: biden did a good thing, but we need more
08:08 PM roycroft: if it becomes law in california it will be de facto law in the rest of the nation
08:09 PM roycroft: i should go make pizza sauce
08:10 PM CloudEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4QUYuG_J5I - related
08:10 PM roycroft: it's almost time to make dinner
08:10 PM CloudEvil: Rossman has been doing good stuff on this
08:10 PM XXCoder: not captioned sadly
08:12 PM roycroft: i'll watch it after dinner
08:12 PM CloudEvil: tl;dl = influencial State senator walked into repair shop, getting old PC fixed, talked to repair guy, conversation got onto right to repair, and the guy said 'you should talk to' - and he was on the phone with the senator the same hour.
08:12 PM CloudEvil: Very productive discussion on the practical aspects of influencing legislation and how much bullshit the corporations are spouting.
08:12 PM CloudEvil: 'but mah intellectual propertae'
08:13 PM XXCoder: thanks for summary :)
08:36 PM roycroft: i don't have an inherent issue with intellectual property
08:36 PM roycroft: i believe in patents, but to a limited degree
08:36 PM roycroft: however, "right to repair" does not need to open source everything
08:37 PM XXCoder: yep, just makes parts reasonably priced, and make it repairable!
08:37 PM CloudEvil: I would argue that a right to software repair is also important.
08:37 PM roycroft: making things modular, creating standard interfaces, and requiring manufacturers to sell replacement parts directly to end users does not infringe in intellectual property rights
08:38 PM CloudEvil: Also reloading firmware.
08:38 PM roycroft: a right to software repair can mean a published api, so that third party software could replace the distributed software
08:39 PM roycroft: i still have not watched that video, and still won't until after dinner
08:40 PM roycroft: i got dinner started, and i have a break for a bit while things are cooking, but i'll probably want to give that video my undivided attention when i watch it, and that can't be right now
08:40 PM roycroft: i already have some pretty well-defined ideas about right to repair, though
08:41 PM roycroft: and btw, i rank right to repair as equivalent to cradle to grave ownership of the resources in terms of corporate responsibilities/requirements
08:41 PM roycroft: equivalent in importance, that is
08:41 PM roycroft: of course they are not exactly the same thing
08:42 PM roycroft: if you build it, you are responsible for it when it's finished serving its useful life
08:42 PM roycroft: it doesn't go to a landfill
08:42 PM roycroft: you get it back, so build it such that you can reuse/recycle it
08:42 PM roycroft: right to repair means you won't get it back as quickly
08:43 PM roycroft: so that's how the two things are tied together
08:43 PM roycroft: in economic terms, if you build it you do not get to externalize the cost of disposal
08:51 PM roycroft: btw, i think this is an apt discussion for this channel, as linuxcnc is in part about manufacturing, including product design, but if others think it inappropriate, say so and i'll defer to those wishes
08:52 PM XXCoder: im usually pretty flexable when no more in topic discussion is happening
08:53 PM CloudEvil: The video in no sense goes into the details of the case for right to repair.
08:54 PM roycroft: i don't think myself as the second coming of dr. bronowski by any means, but i do see and appreciate the connections between things, and find that studying something in isolation is not beneficial in the end
08:55 PM CloudEvil: It would very ovbiously be useful for ripping out controls and replacing them in old machines.
08:57 PM roycroft: the eu mandated years ago standard usb connectors for charging phones and the like
08:57 PM roycroft: so that a person did not have to use proprietary connectors to do that
08:57 PM XXCoder: yeah that was great
08:57 PM roycroft: that's the kind of thing that we need
08:57 PM XXCoder: usa benefite from that indirectly
08:57 PM roycroft: it does not impede innovation in any way
08:58 PM roycroft: and if you want to use something like a wireless inductive charging system, you can do so
08:59 PM roycroft: you can either build that directly into the device, and also add a usb charging interface, or you can make a usb charging interface for the inducting charging system
08:59 PM roycroft: what you should not be able to do is require end users to use *your* charger to charge your product
09:00 PM roycroft: besides the monopolistic aspects of that, your end user may be away from home and need to charge their device
09:00 PM roycroft: the user should not have to carry a proprietary charger around everywhere to be able to doso
09:01 PM roycroft: i deal with this at the country fair every year
09:01 PM roycroft: i bring a big battery pack to our booth, with an inverter and a bunch of usb ports
09:01 PM roycroft: we use it to operate some lights at night, and to charge phones/tablets
09:02 PM roycroft: because a lot of the booth workers are kind of flaky, i have some octopus cables with multiple types of connectors so that people who don't bring a charging cable can charge their phone
09:02 PM roycroft: i do what i can, but there's always someone who has some weird device for which i don't have a cable
09:02 PM roycroft: and they whine and complain that they can't charge their device
09:03 PM roycroft: my only promise to anyone is that i will provide power via a usb port
09:03 PM Tom_L: you should provide for all
09:03 PM roycroft: but i try to bring cables that will work for as many folks as possible anyway
09:03 PM roycroft: i try, tom_l
09:04 PM roycroft: keep in mind that i have absolutely no obligation to do any of this at all, and was never asked to do it
09:04 PM roycroft: but i saw a need one year, and the next year i provided a solution
09:05 PM roycroft: and i'm not complaining, nor suggesting that people are generally ungrateful for what i'm doing
09:06 PM roycroft: i'm pointing out the insanity of proprietary connectors for a standard and should be completely interchangeable interface
09:06 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +o by ChanServ
09:06 PM XXCoder: i interned for fbi once
09:06 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by Tom_L
09:06 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to -o by ChanServ
09:06 PM roycroft: that must have been interesting
09:06 PM XXCoder: they showed me strap of phone connectors
09:06 PM XXCoder: man they had over 30 connector types
09:06 PM roycroft: and i bet you can't talk about a lot of it
09:06 PM XXCoder: it was in early 2000s
09:07 PM XXCoder: oh i could in most case. it was basic internship, nothing scret about it
09:07 PM roycroft: i've done a number of projects with law enforcement
09:07 PM roycroft: a few with other first responders as well
09:07 PM roycroft: those are different universes
09:07 PM XXCoder: i learned fun stuff, and saw computer evidence room. i wasnt allowed in due to evidence access control
09:08 PM XXCoder: they have massive server racks to store disk images
09:08 PM roycroft: and their data centers pale, i'm sure, in comparison to the nsa's
09:08 PM XXCoder: my internship, most of it was done at my home, it was cofiguring linux evidence analsys computer
09:09 PM XXCoder: it took me 2 months as it was literally too hot for that danged computer to run at all
09:09 PM roycroft: i've only worked with local law enforcement - city police and sheriff's offices
09:14 PM XXCoder: thats a lot more than me :)
09:21 PM XXCoder: https://gacc.nifc.gov/nwcc/information/firemap.aspx
09:21 PM XXCoder: man thats big fire
09:37 PM roycroft: if you're talking about the bootleg fire, it's growing by the size of a football field every 30 secnds
09:37 PM roycroft: seconds
09:37 PM roycroft: and has been donig so for 10 days
09:38 PM XXCoder: its its bigger than most cities now
09:42 PM roycroft: fortunately for me, it's unlikely that the smoke from that storm will ever reach hear
09:42 PM roycroft: it would take sustained southeasterly winds, and we *never* get southleasterly winds
09:42 PM XXCoder: "dome" is gone for now i think
09:42 PM roycroft: northeasterly, a lot more than we used to, but southeasterly, no way
09:42 PM XXCoder: so yeah it wont build up smoke here yet
09:42 PM roycroft: well, there is a "dome"
09:43 PM roycroft: but it's moved east, over the mountains
09:43 PM XXCoder: yeah like i said, gone ftrom here for now :)
09:43 PM roycroft: which is both contributing to the ferocity of the fires, and is responsible for the unusual northeasterly winds that we're getting
11:09 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:15 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L