#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 02 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:01 AM roycroft: i thought we already had this discussion
12:11 AM veegee: lol!
12:11 AM veegee: Yeah I know, I already ordered a replacement
12:12 AM veegee: Actually I ordered a replacement off of ebay that had the chuck and D1-4 mount combined
12:12 AM veegee: so now I have an extra chuck for other purposes like a rotary table or whatever, I don't mind
01:59 AM Deejay: moin
02:36 AM veegee: A cheap sum-ting-wong file makes for a great hardness tester
02:37 AM veegee: not as hard as a proper file, but not as soft as mild steel
03:02 AM veegee: What's that principle called where a belt or a bandsaw blade or similar doesn't fall off its roller because the roller is shaped such that the diameter is largest in the middle
03:03 AM veegee: somewhat counterintuitive, you'd expect it to work like a V belt sheave, but that would actually make the belt walk off the roller
03:06 AM veegee: Ah found the exact video I watched a decade ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sM0Qjumyro
03:06 AM veegee: crowned pulley is the key word
04:07 AM Tom_L: morning
05:44 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:44 AM XXCoder: heys
06:48 AM Tom_L: tgif
07:05 AM JT-Cave: one more box of wire to strip then a roll of 4-4 SO that should be fun
07:06 AM XXCoder: fun
07:07 AM XXCoder: for a given value of fun lol
07:08 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/A9_New/A9-A10-profile2.jpg
07:09 AM XXCoder: interesting
07:09 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/A9_New/A9-A10-profile1.jpg
07:10 AM Tom_L: later..
07:43 AM JT-Cave: Effective July 1, 2021, EU member states will collect value added tax (VAT) for all goods entering the EU. The VAT ranges from 17% to 27% depending on the EU member state, not including any applicable duties or fees.
08:11 AM drdoc: morning, all
08:11 AM drdoc: do I understand correctly that the 7i96 does not provide PWM?
08:16 AM drdoc: Hmmm, apparently I did not understand correctly
08:48 AM pcw_home: There is a 7I96 config that does provide PWM instead of the 5th stepgen output
08:58 AM JT-Cave: drdoc, you can use my 7i96 configuration tool to flash the pwm and build your configuration files
09:58 AM JT-Shop: I had several packages that got stuck in Japan waiting for a flight down under and they finally made it to NZ an AU...
10:10 AM JT-Shop: I shipped one package on April 22nd
10:18 AM Roguish: good morning......
10:19 AM Roguish: JT-Shop, how are your chickens donin?
10:20 AM JT-Shop: my favorite hen Monique passed the other day, the rest are doing good and only one hen is in the Chicken Clink and that's Miss Behaving
10:21 AM Roguish: ah, condolences.....
10:22 AM JT-Shop: thanks, she got the royal treatment the last few weeks of her life with every kind of treat she wanted and private accommodations when she could not walk much
10:24 AM Roguish: that's cool. good Dad.
10:29 AM JT-Shop: and the next 3 days are high of 80°F and sunny!
10:46 AM roycroft: it's going to be sunny here until probably september
10:46 AM roycroft: except at night, of course
10:47 AM roycroft: can we still call it a drought if it's the new normal?
10:53 AM Roguish: it's not a drought..... the other years are just extra wet years.....
10:57 AM roycroft: we base our climate definitions over a 30 year average, and we're over a decade into the drought, so we should actually be redefining what a drought is here
11:04 AM Roguish: our 'history' is just a blink of an eye in the world history..... consider the climate swings over the previous couple million years and ya get a better sense of reality.
11:26 AM CaptHindsight[m]: is this anti-science morning? Asking for a friend.
11:28 AM roycroft: for roughly half of this country, it's anti-science century
11:29 AM aaroncnc: @CaptHindsight[m], i found out why my VFD signal is backwards. this cheap china bob uses a active low to make the 0-10v signal so it inverts the pwm logic... So no bug in remora
11:31 AM CaptHindsight[m]: that is what Chinese BOB's so much fun
11:31 AM CaptHindsight[m]: no specs and full of surprises
11:35 AM aaroncnc: i made a comment to scott to see if he can add a invert function to the PWM. As i was looking for ways to drive the 0-10v these bobs kept coming up and for only 4-5$ for some protection for the main board for input outputs and the VFD its not to bad of a deal. i would not lose any sleep if somenthing fried this little bob but i would be a bit miffed if i lost the SKR or RPI
11:35 AM CaptHindsight[m]: which BOB is this?
11:38 AM CaptHindsight[m]: Archivist had a few pages of specs and RE info on the many available
11:39 AM CaptHindsight[m]: someone on Discord had a few cheap BOB's that didn't even work, one was just a passive pass through
11:48 AM aaroncnc: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08QMPQ5BD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
11:54 AM CaptHindsight[m]: looks familiar, I might have that in my box of random BOB's
12:31 PM JT-Shop: looks like an explosion in a paper factory in here after stripping that pile of 6-4 SO cord
12:32 PM aaroncnc: why are you doing that?
12:32 PM JT-Shop: I don't need any 6-4 SO cord
12:35 PM * JT-Shop takes a break before starting in on the 4-4 SEOW Cord
12:35 PM Tom_L: what you gonna do with all the plastic?
12:35 PM roycroft: what are you doing with all your copper?
12:35 PM Tom_L: what you doin!
12:36 PM JT-Shop: copper goes to the scrap yard
12:36 PM JT-Shop: plastic in the trash unfortunately
12:37 PM roycroft: what are they paying for scrap copper these days?
12:38 PM JT-Shop: I don't know, the price of copper wire at the store is at a 10 year high
12:41 PM roycroft: yes, and it's going to stay high
12:54 PM aaroncnc: that reminds me i have some 3in copper pipe stashed somewhere in my shop i wonder how much 9ft of that would get me right now.
12:55 PM JT-Shop: I'm glad I don't have anything bigger than #4 to strip... my stripper only takes up to 3/8" diameter
12:56 PM aaroncnc: how much copper wire do you have so that the tool became worth it? how do you get so much?
12:57 PM aaroncnc: mine is from friends who do office remodels so i dont get much power but i have never had to buy cat6 cable in my life.
01:01 PM JT-Shop: I work on machinery and in a previous life I was an electrician, I have a lot of wire!
01:02 PM aaroncnc: if i wanted an inverted spindle output signal in software what would be the best way to do that? the value i use now is s0-s2000 = 0-100 but i need s0-s2000 = 100-0
01:02 PM JT-Shop: oh and the tool was free...
01:03 PM JT-Shop: change the scale
01:03 PM Tom_L: on the pwm??
01:04 PM Tom_L: i think his analog signal is reversed
01:07 PM JT-Shop: hmmm
01:11 PM Tom_L: anyone know the average cost of alum / lb?
01:12 PM Tom_L: (new) not scrap
01:12 PM CloudEvil: https://www.lme.com/en-GB/Metals/Non-ferrous/Aluminium#tabIndex=0 is an answer.
01:13 PM CloudEvil: ($2.5/kg)
01:14 PM Tom_L: $5/lb?
01:14 PM Tom_L: 5.5
01:14 PM CloudEvil: Other way round
01:14 PM CloudEvil: ($1.1ish)
01:14 PM CloudEvil: For LARGE quantities
01:15 PM Tom_L: yeah
01:18 PM JT-Shop: so far I have 82 pounds of copper
01:24 PM aaroncnc: could i use lincurve to make an inverted scale?
01:28 PM pcw_home: Can you invert the PWM pin polarity?
01:29 PM pcw_home: another option is to use the offset component
01:30 PM aaroncnc: i cant invert it yet, i could just add a transistor into the hardware to invert but i am trying to avoid that.
01:30 PM aaroncnc: i need a 0-100 number that goes to an external pwm gen. but what i need now is 100-0
01:32 PM pcw_home: the offset component can do that
01:32 PM pcw_home: use a -1 scale and an offset or 100
01:32 PM pcw_home: of 100
01:37 PM aaroncnc: so if i am understanding this. i would take my lets say my spindle out put with a value of 80. then use offset to minus 100. giving me a -20 then route that value into a abs in as they will turn any negative into positive and get 20 at the end. sounds right? or skip the abs and use the -1 scale to fix the negative.
01:44 PM aaroncnc: hmm find out lincurve can go it to. i had it in my file for doing speed fixing as an option vs the pid feeback
01:47 PM aaroncnc: i can then use the lincurve to fix any non linear output from the cheap bob that converting the pwm into 0-10v. might be a2 birds one stone kinda thing.
02:00 PM pcw_home: No you set the offset to 100 and the scale to -1
02:00 PM pcw_home: so 0 *-1 +100 = 100
02:00 PM pcw_home: and 100 * -1 +100 = 0
02:00 PM pcw_home: so 80 * -1 +100 = 20 as you wanted
02:02 PM aaroncnc: pcw_home, so all 3 ways work it would seem all of them will need the abs as the pwm gen can only use positive numbers 0-100
02:04 PM aaroncnc: and if i recall when spindle is reversed it gives a negative number.
02:07 PM Roguish_desk: pcw_home, please see my question on -devel
02:46 PM aaroncnc: man this pwm to 0-10v converter sucks. lincurve is a godsend for fixing the output. but what should i expect when i pay5$...
02:47 PM drdoc: aaroncnc: man, don't say that
02:48 PM * drdoc just bought probably the same doodad
02:48 PM drdoc: 73 different brands, all the same product name
02:49 PM drdoc: "PWM to Voltage Module 0%-100% PWM to 0-10V Voltage"
02:49 PM drdoc: JT-Shop: thanks, I did find that almost as soon as I posted the question
02:49 PM aaroncnc: its going to work for what i need it to and i think most of the opamp based ones have the same flaw that at the low or high end of the scale they fall a bit flat/off
02:50 PM drdoc: that's what opamps do though, right?
02:50 PM aaroncnc: but a quci ksetup with a motor and ecoder and recording the value with lincurve solved it
02:50 PM drdoc: nice
02:51 PM aaroncnc: if i recall correctly there are better setups/ amps that can have less distortion but its been a bit
02:51 PM drdoc: not for $8
02:51 PM drdoc: I think the correct answer is a VFD
02:51 PM aaroncnc: this is true, well maybe 8$ for just a bare opamp then make your won board a vreg and what not....
02:52 PM aaroncnc: yup this is for driving my vfd
02:53 PM drdoc: I misread the Chinglish last night and plugged 110V AC into the PSU's 0-10V DC control connector
02:53 PM drdoc: as is normal with ChinaCo 'Lectric, the circuit protected the fuse
02:54 PM drdoc: https://imgur.com/a/svvRIKJ
02:54 PM drdoc: amazingly, after I bridged those traces, it still works
02:55 PM drdoc: (I didn't peel those at all. They blew like that
02:57 PM drdoc: aaroncnc: I've actually spent a fair part of the day investigating a decent converter
02:58 PM drdoc: so far the best candidate is a servo turning a good pot
02:58 PM drdoc: seriously
03:06 PM enleth: microcontroller with a good DAC
03:06 PM rs[m]: you just need a PWM, level conversion and a filter
03:09 PM enleth: the cheapest STM32 in existence will do just fine as a PWM-to-analog transducer with zero non-linearity near ends of the range
03:10 PM rs[m]: 0-3v3
03:10 PM enleth: on the other hand, a single capacitor will work just right *if* you know the desired frequency response range and it's not too demanding
03:13 PM drdoc: enleth: I'm much more an analog guy
03:13 PM rs[m]: mesa cards also use PWM and lowpass filter for 0-10V outputs.
03:13 PM drdoc: I don't think the 7i96 does 0-10V
03:13 PM drdoc: just PWM
03:14 PM enleth: rs[m]: I think there's an ST application note explaining a reference opamp circuit that scales the DAC output to 0-5V
03:15 PM rs[m]: 7i44
03:15 PM drdoc: rs[m]: yeah
03:15 PM enleth: that wouldn't have any of the problems of a bare opamp setup
03:15 PM drdoc: but that ain't what I have
03:16 PM drdoc: I do have a spare step/dir channel, a nema8 stepper, and some pulleys & belts
03:17 PM drdoc: connect all that to a multi-turn pot and bob's your uncle...
03:17 PM rs[m]: drdoc: if you want to generate 10V from PWM, you need 10V reference voltage, some mosfet that switches those 10V with PWM and a lowpass filter
03:17 PM drdoc: yes
03:18 PM drdoc: I do understand how PWM works
03:19 PM drdoc: but the reality is that with cheap components, you've got flaky bands at the low end and a *lot* of voltage drop at the high end
03:21 PM rs[m]: strange
03:21 PM drdoc: good converters usually don't advertise 0-100%
03:21 PM drdoc: it's usually 20-100 or 30-100%
03:22 PM drdoc: although I'll grant that it's as much on the motor as the power input
03:28 PM rs[m]: nonlinearity and ripple may be caused by latency jitter if you generate PWM from software
03:29 PM enleth: which is probably why industrial servo drive vendors have been dropping analog input support or only keeping it as an absolute last resort in selected models
03:29 PM aaroncnc: @drdoc, a dedicated dac would work technicly the chip the remora board uses has one that could support what we want BUT!@!@! the pins are shorted out on the pcb right below the chip so the only way to even dream of using it is to lift the pins off the pads and solder some bodge wires out. but even then its not yet made it into the software yet but there is a chance in the future.
03:30 PM aaroncnc: so for now with my lincurve setup and this cheap bob i am set
03:30 PM rs[m]: converting DAC output from LPC1769 to 0-10V probably introduces more non-linearites than using PWM and lowpass
03:30 PM rs[m]: esp. near 0V
03:30 PM aaroncnc: also alot of VFDs have a 10v ref signal out
03:31 PM aaroncnc: @rs[m], but you can feed the dac the 10v ref signal from the vfd are are you saying the steps/resolution is to low?
03:31 PM rs[m]: the DAC is limited to 3,3v
03:32 PM JT-Shop: just got my Missouri renewal notice for the Honda Insight and for the first time it says safety inspection if mileage exceeds 149,999
03:32 PM rs[m]: so you would need an opamp that multiplies by 3. rail2rail opamp with 12V supply could do it.
03:32 PM enleth: FWIW, there are "digital potentiometer" style external DACs that take whatever reference voltage
03:33 PM rs[m]: that's not really a DAC but a digital potentiometer ;-), those usually have limited resolution
03:33 PM enleth: but their latency tends to suck
03:34 PM enleth: OTOH a motor-potentiometer setup's latency is going to suck way more
03:35 PM rs[m]: for a 3phase async spindle with VFD without feedback you probably don't need more than 50Hz bandwidth
03:37 PM rs[m]: control voltage +-10V makes sense in an analog servo amplifier
03:37 PM rs[m]: not so much in a digital one
03:37 PM enleth: which is pretty much all modern ones
03:38 PM enleth: even - especially? - the cheap stuff, too
03:39 PM enleth: having to signal a digital drive from a digital controller over an analog line is just silly
03:40 PM rs[m]: yes, doesn't make sense.
03:41 PM enleth: the same kind of silly as printing invoices from your sales software only for the buyer to immediately proceed to type them into their accounting software by hand
03:42 PM enleth: which is what the whole world is doing.
03:43 PM aaroncnc: @enleth, they have scanners that can grab the text for you and enter into your software for you. still makes little sense.
03:47 PM rs[m]: you have to keep paper-invoices (at least around here)
03:52 PM enleth: here too, and it's getting increasingly idiotic - they're being reported to the taxation authorities by the issuer, digitally, at the end of every month, and by the recipient, the following month
03:52 PM enleth: so who needs the piece of dead tree to have ever existed?
03:53 PM enleth: the tax overlords know about its contents anyway
03:58 PM roycroft: our internal revenue service require people to either keep paper financial records or to ensure that nothing ever happens to their electronic ones
03:59 PM roycroft: apparenly if your building burns down and all your paper records go up in flames, they'll be somewhat lenient with you while you're tryin to put your finances back together, but if you keep everything electronically and your hard disk dies and you don't have a good backup, they mercilessly come down on you with the full force of the law
04:01 PM enleth: over here, receipts with the buyer's tax ID are now considered equivalent to regular invoices
04:01 PM enleth: so you need to keep them for however many years
04:01 PM enleth: thermal printer receipts.
04:03 PM enleth: there already have been cases of people presenting those "invoices" to auditors, that have gone completely blank
04:04 PM roycroft: i scan and shred everything
04:05 PM roycroft: all the scans go on my nas as i scan them, which gets replicated to another nas in real time, and backed up offsite every night
04:05 PM roycroft: i used to sneakernet backups of the financial stuff to my safe deposit box once/month, but i've not been doing that since the pandemic began
04:05 PM roycroft: i should probably start doing it again soon
04:07 PM veegee: The ball in the middle of the recessed oil port popped out
04:07 PM CloudEvil: That means it's full.
04:07 PM veegee: well technically popped into its hole and doesn't spring back anymore
04:08 PM * CloudEvil has been pondering the mechanism of the SpacePen recently.
04:08 PM CloudEvil: In related matters.
04:08 PM veegee: This was from when I was using too sharp a tip on my modified grease gun
04:08 PM CloudEvil: Broke the spring?
04:08 PM veegee: I use a flatter tip now and it doesn't damage the rest
04:08 PM veegee: It might have unseated the ball from the spring
04:08 PM veegee: Can't imagine it "broke" the spring
04:09 PM veegee: Not sure how they work or how to replace them, have to look that up
04:09 PM CloudEvil: I mean broke in a functional sense - perhaps buckled it?
04:10 PM veegee: It really looks like the ball just unseated from the spring
04:10 PM veegee: If I apply a vacuum pressure, for example by blowing compressed air across the surface
04:10 PM veegee: the ball comes back up
04:13 PM veegee: I didn't know this until watching this video, but those oil ports are meant to be oiled with one of these: https://youtu.be/x8tx-cBulno?t=144 (blondihacks)
04:13 PM veegee: I instead converted a grease gun into an oil gun for that purpose
04:14 PM veegee: Works great, but I didn't have the flat tip, just a conical one which was just a bit too sharp and unseated the ball on a couple of the ports
04:14 PM veegee: After flattening the tip, had no issues. Bonus with the grease gun: 6,000 psi oil pressure!
04:15 PM veegee: Also advantage is you don't have to be "very square to the face" like she says since the taper seals against the hole
04:16 PM veegee: My tip is exactly like her "pointed tip" in the video. Wish I knew not to press the ball too far earlier :(
04:18 PM veegee: Also her description of "sticky" is not nearly as sticky as way oil should be. She's probably using the shitty new Vactra 2
04:19 PM veegee: I should put out a PSA on all forums informing people that Vactra 2 is not the same as Vactra 2 from 1960. Tackifiers have been removed!!!!!
04:21 PM veegee: Mobil Vacuoline 1409 is what Vactra 2 used to be if you want to stick with Mobil. But I use Petro Canada AccuFlo Tk 68 and it's so great compared to the shitty new Vactra 2
04:21 PM veegee: "Eliminates stick-slip and chatter of ways" yup Vacuoline 1409/accuflo tk 68 do indeed work as advertised
04:22 PM XXCoder: CloudEvil: it works by having pressured nitogen tank push on ink
04:22 PM XXCoder: theres couple doptions but i cant remember what too
04:26 PM veegee: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/mobile-vactra-2-a-86367/ looks like my analysis was right
04:30 PM XXCoder: stickyness as on it stays on surface?
04:31 PM veegee: tackiness
04:31 PM veegee: if you watch the video above, she puts some between her fingers and separates her fingers
04:31 PM veegee: that little string you see for a split second is the tackiness
04:31 PM veegee: kind of like your snot
04:32 PM veegee: unlike water, it sticks to itself
04:32 PM veegee: if you've ever had to sneeze and didn't have tissue, you know what I mean
04:32 PM veegee: But in her demonstration, that's not _nearly_ as tacky as it should be
04:33 PM veegee: Vacuoline 1409 and accuflo tk68 and other proper way oils are _much_ tackier than that. She just thinks what she has is tacky. It's not even close
04:34 PM veegee: It's such a huge difference, you won't believe it until you try it on your own machine. All the slide ways will move MUCH more freely, like they're actually floating on a layer of oil
04:35 PM * Tom_L glances over veegee monologue
04:35 PM XXCoder: ok
04:43 PM * CloudEvil is annoyed again that youtube killed video responses
04:56 PM CloudEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPqAeMIJIxU 'we need to carefully measure the sprocket so that the repair is not undersized' -> 'marks line out with chalk'
05:08 PM roycroft: did you say sprockets?
05:08 PM roycroft: are you happy as a little girl?
05:14 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:28 PM andypugh: We got sent home from work early today, because it is the 4th of July weekend.
05:28 PM andypugh: Odd, as we are in the UK :-)
05:30 PM andypugh: In other news. Yesterday I fitted a DIN rail to my spare bed.
05:36 PM roycroft: i just got off work at the normal time
05:36 PM roycroft: but i have monday off due to the holiday
05:41 PM andypugh: I asked my boss if we can have Badtille day too. (He is French)
05:42 PM andypugh: Err, Bastille day, that is.
05:42 PM * Tom_L wonders how many countries celebrate US holidays
05:43 PM XXCoder: some holidays just leak out
05:43 PM XXCoder: like thankgiving day
05:43 PM XXCoder: its very specific to canada and usa, but other countries have it also
05:43 PM Roguish_desk: hey all. there is a mult2 comp for multiplying. Is there a divid comp for, obviously, division ???
05:43 PM andypugh: Thanksgiving has no carry-over to the UK, bit we seem to have got Black Friday.
05:44 PM XXCoder: "Thanksgiving is a national holiday celebrated on various dates in the United States, Canada, Grenada, Saint Lucia, and Liberia."
05:44 PM andypugh: Roguish: No, but there is an “inv” and then you can use “mult” on that.
05:45 PM andypugh: Roguish: But now you mention it, it probably would make sense to have one.
05:45 PM andypugh: And also an “arbitrary equation” component.
05:46 PM Roguish_desk: been using the invert comp. just have to use 2 functions for 1.
05:46 PM andypugh: loadrt equation equation=“X=43*A+B/C”
05:46 PM Roguish_desk: oh well...... unless you care to write one, hint, hint....
05:46 PM Tom_L: andypugh, do you know where the font size is set for hal_manualtoolchange.py?
05:46 PM andypugh: Where X maps to “out” and ABC etc create inputs.
05:47 PM enleth: XXCoder: huh, that's one more connection between the US and Liberia, the other being the measurement system
05:47 PM andypugh: Roguish: I was about to suggest that you write one :-)
05:47 PM XXCoder: fun isnt it
05:47 PM enleth: (US, Liberia and Myanmar are the only remaining users)
05:47 PM Roguish_desk: andypugh, hey. what's your opinion of using modbus to control a spindle vfd and being able to rigid tap?
05:48 PM andypugh: Liberia is a country mainly populated slaves (He says, without actually checking)
05:48 PM XXCoder: isnt one of those 3 already moved from imperial
05:48 PM andypugh: I missed out some words, how did that happen? “populated by freed slaves”
05:49 PM enleth: XXCoder: oh, and the flag, too
05:49 PM andypugh: enleth: Explain the flag of Hawaii. :-)
05:50 PM enleth: it's literally as if they tried to do a superficial cargo cult copy of the US in the hopes of this doing them any good
05:51 PM andypugh: enleth: Not at all, look up the history of the place.
05:52 PM Roguish_desk: andypugh, modbus vfd and rigid tapping.....does it work.
05:52 PM andypugh: Roguish_desk: I am sure it does, but shouldn’t…
05:52 PM Roguish_desk: shouldn't ?????
05:53 PM Roguish_desk: what, to much unpredictable timing ?
05:53 PM enleth: andypugh: ah, so it was deliberate, one way or another
05:54 PM andypugh: If you can do realtime Modbus (Classic Ladder) then yes. If you are doing Modbus in User-space via USB, then it will work until it doesn’t. It’s probbaly fine, ut I wouldn’t trust it on blind holes.
05:54 PM enleth: andypugh: but more in a "THIS is the land of the free" kinda way
05:54 PM andypugh: It was founded by a bunch of freed slaves from the US.
05:55 PM Roguish_desk: andypugh, ah, now that's a good explanation. thanks.
05:55 PM veegee: https://www.princessauto.com/en/oxy-fuel-gas-saver/product/PA0008836017
05:55 PM enleth: and so that was probably their line of thought
05:55 PM veegee: decent price?
05:56 PM andypugh: As a place for slaves to come back to Africa. (African slaves, that is. Slavery has a much wider scope historically than just the West African slave trade. The horror of that was just how industrialised and large-scale it became.
05:56 PM veegee: Going to add a couple of flashback arrestors and hoses as well
05:57 PM andypugh: I think that at least two hoses is a good idea.
05:57 PM veegee: andypugh well with the gas saver, you need another hose anyway because it sits between the torch and regulators
05:57 PM andypugh: I have never been 100% convinced that you need a flashback on the oxygen. But then I am not a welder.
05:57 PM Roguish_desk: andypugh, where are the comp sources?
05:58 PM veegee: flashback arrestors are cheap, I'm not even going to think about it
05:58 PM andypugh: linuxcnc-dev/src/ha;/components
05:58 PM Roguish_desk: i might take a wack at a divid comp. no promising, but could be a fun challange
05:58 PM Roguish_desk: copy the mult2 and modify....
05:58 PM veegee: $50/set and lets you sleep at night
05:59 PM andypugh: Roguish_desk: Here is mult. It is not complicated: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/hal/components/mult2.comp
05:59 PM veegee: every bloke should have flashback arrestors, even if you don't have an oxy fuel kit!
06:00 PM Roguish_desk: andypugh, holy cow, it was written by jmkasunich....
06:01 PM andypugh: Well, you don’t need flashbacks when not welding. So sleeping at night is not a huge issue, unless you sleep-weld :-)
06:04 PM veegee: Well, MSC lists a Smith gas saver torch holder for $400. Looks like I'm going the princess auto route
06:04 PM veegee: as long as it doesn't blow up on me, I'll be fine with it
06:04 PM Roguish_desk: shit, and invert was written by swpadnos....
06:06 PM veegee: Only reason I use my propane air torch is because it's easier and less anxiety inducing to start and stop the flame
06:07 PM veegee: But the oxy acetylene kit is right next to me and I want to use it more
06:23 PM andypugh: Roguish_desk: If you write a div then you join august company (a month early ).
06:24 PM Roguish_desk: just finished first version..... now gotta figure how to compile
06:24 PM andypugh: But a generic equation parser, that would be a fun challenge. I might try it, I have done it before, just not in C.
06:25 PM andypugh: If we make it reverse-polish, then I think it is easy.
06:25 PM Roguish_desk: rpn is the only way to work.
06:25 PM andypugh: I think that it is in this case.
06:26 PM Roguish_desk: where're instructions to compile...???
06:27 PM andypugh: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/hal/comp.html
06:29 PM andypugh: I might have to write equation.comp. With the idea of using RPN it is suddenly trivial. All Capital lettters become a HAL pin. All operators are parsed in sequence. We can allow sin, cos, pi etc in lower case.
06:33 PM Roguish_desk: poo, halcompile is using a python compiler on my .c file.
06:35 PM andypugh: Write the comp in .comp, like the others.
06:36 PM Roguish: I did.
06:37 PM Roguish_desk: well the extension is .comp
06:37 PM Roguish_desk: is that what you mean?
06:37 PM andypugh: Or perhaps you misunderstand how .comp works? Halcompile parses the .comp and creates a C file (with a scary level of macro substitution) then compiles that C file.
06:39 PM Roguish_desk: ah, i see examples at the bottom of the page.....
06:39 PM andypugh: You probably want to use sudo halcompile — install. (with two dashes, my editor has merged them into an em-dash)
06:47 PM andypugh: I was surprised not to get more bites on the “DIN rail on my spare bed” But it’s one of those kids desk-beds with non-kid desk contents. And now a DIN rail of SMBLs. https://photos.app.goo.gl/VPsKoTVnEFoLMu86A
06:50 PM Roguish_desk: Traceback (most recent call last):
06:50 PM Roguish_desk: File "/usr/bin/halcompile", line 1512, in <module>
06:50 PM Roguish_desk: main()
06:50 PM Roguish_desk: File "/usr/bin/halcompile", line 1482, in main
06:50 PM Roguish_desk: process(f, mode, outfile)
06:50 PM Roguish_desk: File "/usr/bin/halcompile", line 1336, in process
06:50 PM Roguish_desk: a, b = parse(filename)
06:50 PM Roguish_desk: File "/usr/bin/halcompile", line 436, in parse
06:50 PM Roguish_desk: a, b = f.split("\n;;\n", 1)
06:50 PM Roguish_desk: ValueError: need more than 1 value to unpack
06:50 PM Roguish_desk: what????
06:53 PM andypugh: You missed out, or corrupted with a DOS newline, the “;;” separator.
06:55 PM andypugh: It’s trying to split the file into two halves, header and C code, at the “;;” line. And is finding no separator.
06:56 PM andypugh: That’s such a common issue, with such an impenetrable error messagem that we should modify halcompile to check for a ;; separator.
06:57 PM Roguish_desk: header, what header....?
06:57 PM Roguish_desk: oh, now i see the ;;
06:59 PM Roguish_desk: SUCCESS, at least no errors.
07:00 PM Roguish_desk: where should I put the .so to use it????
07:01 PM Roguish_desk: ok, did the --install. it created a link to somewhere.
07:12 PM andypugh: loadrt in HAL should now find it
07:12 PM andypugh: Or:
07:12 PM andypugh: halrun
07:12 PM andypugh: loadrt div
07:12 PM andypugh: loadrt threads
07:12 PM andypugh: addf div.0 thread1
07:13 PM andypugh: start
07:13 PM andypugh: setp div.0.qiotient 100
07:13 PM andypugh: setp div.0.denominator 100
07:13 PM andypugh: setp div.0.numerator 10
07:14 PM andypugh: show pin
07:14 PM Roguish_desk: ok, gettin there. though i have #include <rtapi_math.h>
07:14 PM andypugh: (and ignore “qiotent” as I can neither spell, type nor remember my mathematical nomenclature.
07:14 PM Roguish_desk: which not sure of . i'm using pre-empt not rtapi
07:15 PM Roguish_desk: do I need to include a math library of some sort?
07:15 PM andypugh: You could try
07:15 PM andypugh: include rtapi_math.h;
07:15 PM andypugh: above the ;;
07:16 PM andypugh: Both work most of the time, sometimes one works better than the other.
07:17 PM andypugh: if you need the library at pin-creatiion time, use the ,comp version of include.
07:18 PM andypugh: include (no # but with a ;) is maybe undocumented.
07:19 PM andypugh: What? if you see a smiley, that was meant to be just a semicolon.
07:20 PM Roguish_desk: just left the library out and it compiled w/o complaints
07:21 PM Roguish_desk: WOO HOO. WORKS.
07:22 PM Roguish_desk: ok, now i'm going to use it, but would like to contribute it. how?
07:22 PM Roguish_desk: how about i create a forum topic, and post it.
07:23 PM Roguish_desk: could/would you put it in?
07:24 PM andypugh: Best way is to create a pull-request on github.
07:25 PM Roguish_desk: i'll look into it.
07:25 PM Roguish_desk: thanks for the help.
07:25 PM andypugh: That way you are acknowelded as the author in the history.
07:25 PM Roguish_desk: you must be a night owl. late over there on the rock.
07:25 PM Roguish_desk: ok. wife has dinner. gotta go.
07:26 PM Roguish_desk: THANKS AGAIN.
07:26 PM andypugh: Yes, very much so,
09:04 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:10 PM veegee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBQencBA528
09:10 PM veegee: fucking finally
09:11 PM veegee: I've been waiting forever to upgrade from my HP 603x series power supplies without paying Keysight prices
09:15 PM veegee: But still not worth the price compared to BK precision's 5kW series: https://www.bkprecision.com/products/power-supplies#performance
09:55 PM captain_morgan: in the ini file, are [JOINT_x] sections automatically grouped with the prior [AXIS_y] section?
09:57 PM captain_morgan: for a dual motor gantry I thought I would define an [AXIS_A] to [JOINT_3] but this example shows [AXIS_Y] .. [JOINT_1]...[JOINT_2]...[AXIS_Z]
09:57 PM captain_morgan: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/20876/CNC01_2017-01-29.ini
09:57 PM captain_morgan: I get the joint number is irrelevant and can be set it the .hal
10:02 PM W1N9Zr0: KINEMATICS = trivkins coordinates=XYZY
10:02 PM W1N9Zr0: XYZY is the sequence of the joints 0-3
10:04 PM W1N9Zr0: is that what you mean by grouping?
10:05 PM captain_morgan: ah right, that looks like the association I was missing
10:08 PM captain_morgan: great, I think I'm ready to test endstop at least
10:29 PM captain_morgan: nope. parameter or pin 'stepgen.3.position-scale' not found
10:29 PM captain_morgan: but I do have [JOINT_3]...SCALE=8000.0 in my .ini
10:31 PM captain_morgan: and with XYZY in both [KIN] and [TRAJ]
11:03 PM captain_morgan: dang, I just cannot find anything wrong
11:13 PM captain_morgan: hey! `loadrt stepgen...` needed another 0
11:14 PM captain_morgan: position-scale' not found
11:25 PM captain_morgan: well it loads now but only one motor jogs
11:31 PM captain_morgan: oh.. right.. the GUI now has joint 0-3... less helpful
11:32 PM captain_morgan: and the other motor does work on 3
11:36 PM t4nk_fn: so I got a 'cnc' setup... got real lead-screws on x- and y-axes. 8mm rods, 2mm pitch and 8mm lead
11:37 PM t4nk_fn: if my steppers do 200 turns, 1.8degrees and 8 microsteps, that comes to 200 steps per mm
11:37 PM t4nk_fn: (I guess)
11:37 PM t4nk_fn: but I have some m8 normal threaded rod for my z-axis
11:37 PM t4nk_fn: and I have NO idea what the lead on that is
11:38 PM t4nk_fn: I think I saw some '1.25' somewhere
11:38 PM t4nk_fn: and based on that, I calculated 1280 steps
11:38 PM t4nk_fn: but stuff is giving me a hard time (currently using grbl though)
11:39 PM t4nk_fn: it homes correctly every now and then
11:40 PM t4nk_fn: but when I run some gcode, for example a built-in dowel maker in universal gcode platform... it will fail shortly after starting, it alarms on the z-switch
11:40 PM t4nk_fn: and the switch is triggered of course
11:40 PM t4nk_fn: thing is... I had this working before
11:40 PM t4nk_fn: before I tried setting the steps/mm and such
11:41 PM t4nk_fn: I've homed the machine, and ran the dowel program
11:41 PM t4nk_fn: I don't understand :|
11:43 PM _unreal_: #reprap or ##grbl may know more about GRBL then lcnc
11:43 PM t4nk_fn: 1. it's: more THAN, not more then
11:44 PM _unreal_: I'd try the ##grbl room first ;)
11:44 PM t4nk_fn: shut up you bastard ;)
11:44 PM t4nk_fn: hehe
11:44 PM captain_morgan: wow
11:44 PM t4nk_fn: what's the time over there in the great country of florida btw?
11:44 PM t4nk_fn: is it too late or so?
11:44 PM _unreal_: 12:30am
11:45 PM t4nk_fn: on a friday night, right
11:45 PM _unreal_: sat. morning
11:46 PM t4nk_fn: it's 6.33 here, and I'm about sweating vinegar, such madness is upon me
11:46 PM t4nk_fn: *sigh*
11:47 PM roycroft: the first thing i'd do is measure the thread pitch of the z axis screw
11:47 PM t4nk_fn: I just tried that a few minutes ago, roycroft ... it looks to be 1.5mm from one to the next
11:48 PM _unreal_: you purchased that threaded rod...
11:48 PM roycroft: and it's m8?
11:48 PM _unreal_: you should be able to find out what it is
11:48 PM t4nk_fn: yes it's m8
11:48 PM roycroft: that's an unusual thread pitch for m8
11:48 PM captain_morgan: bah! what dictates the GUI show Joint 0..3 vs Axis XYZ?
11:48 PM roycroft: it should be 1.25 or 1.0
11:49 PM roycroft: maybe 0.75
11:49 PM t4nk_fn: you'd think so, no... but there's no info at all on it...
11:49 PM roycroft: 1.5 is really coarse for that size screw
11:49 PM t4nk_fn: so yeah, I guessed 1.25, I believe I also 'read it on the net somewhere'
11:49 PM roycroft: if it was made as a cnc lead screw i could see that
11:49 PM captain_morgan: I've changed COORDs under TRAJ, coords under KINS and neither seem to change anything
11:50 PM roycroft: but if it's generic threaded rod it's really odd if it actually is 1.5
11:50 PM _unreal_: https://fullerfasteners.com/tech/basic-metric-thread-chart-m1-m100-2/
11:50 PM t4nk_fn: I may have other issues though... homing doesn't always work... right now for instance, I did a hming cycle, and it alarms with " An error was detected while sending '$H': (ALARM:9) Homing fail. Could not find limit switch within search distances. Try increasing max travel, decreasing pull-off distance, or check wiring."
11:50 PM roycroft: did you measure between two thread crests?
11:51 PM roycroft: measure 25 threads and divide by 25
11:51 PM t4nk_fn: yes I did roycroft
11:51 PM t4nk_fn: good idea
11:51 PM _unreal_: sounds like you need to go to the hardware store and buy OR test a known series of nuts till you find the one that threads on. and take note of what the nut is for thread type/size
11:52 PM roycroft: or just do what i just told him
11:52 PM roycroft: and then go online and order a thread gage
11:52 PM t4nk_fn: https://pastebin.com/vFmn762K these are my settings btw, roycroft ...
11:52 PM roycroft: two thread ages if one is in the usa
11:52 PM t4nk_fn: yeah, I'm sorry, I'm dutch, so things are different around here
11:53 PM t4nk_fn: inches give me the creeps too
11:53 PM roycroft: then you only need one thread gage
11:53 PM roycroft: it should cost you 4 euros
11:53 PM roycroft: wait
11:53 PM roycroft: you're in europe
11:53 PM XXCoder: diving error across 25 threads is great idea
11:53 PM roycroft: it should cost you no more than 14 euros :)
11:53 PM XXCoder: better than one thread error
11:56 PM W1N9Zr0: captain_morgan - you will only see only joints on gui until you home because your gantry is not considered aligned at that point. ctrl-f gantry on here https://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/config/ini-homing.html
11:57 PM captain_morgan: ah ok, let me re-enable HOME_SEQ and try that
11:59 PM captain_morgan: oh hey! that's got it homing but still crashing because I don't think I have the second switch pin set correctly....