#linuxcnc Logs
Jun 29 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:10 AM drdoc: My spanky new steppers sound like a cheap coffee grinder
12:24 AM drdoc: roycroft: that's how you fixed your backplate, right?
12:24 AM XXCoder: mauybe its from cheap grinder?
12:24 AM XXCoder: ;)
12:24 AM drdoc: well, they're cheap...
12:24 AM drdoc: I think it's a wiring problem, to tell the truth
12:24 AM drdoc: the "documentation" shows which wires are paired to coils, but not polarity
12:24 AM drdoc: I guess the easiest way to check that is just reverse one pair
12:42 AM roycroft: yes, drdoc, that's how i fixed my back plate
12:43 AM roycroft: because i'm filthy rich and don't have to work, so i can spend all my time playing and spending money on shiny tools that i don't need
01:11 AM Deejay: moin
02:18 AM veegee: How do they make every single bench grinder wheel consistently shitty
02:18 AM veegee: plastic bushings
02:18 AM veegee: wheel isn't concentric
02:18 AM veegee: rotates off axis
02:19 AM veegee: I have four bench grinders: a 6", 8", 10", 12" and the shafts on them are all good
04:06 AM Tom_L: morning
04:07 AM XXCoder: yo
04:07 AM enleth: veegee: regrinding inserts for weird geometry and/or brazing them onto shanks is a perfectly valid thing to do in a job shop environment
04:07 AM enleth: veegee: Stefan Gotteswinter has a full video on his techniques for this
04:08 AM enleth: veegee: note that you can buy completely flat, plain inserts, no chip breaker at all
04:08 AM enleth: I think they're meant for cast iron?
04:08 AM veegee: enleth yeah I was watching that specific video actually
04:09 AM veegee: And y eah that makes sense, the flat ones ate through the cast iron beautifully
04:09 AM veegee: I'm starting to become a real fan of Stefan's videos. He has a lot of content that pertains specifically to what I'm doing
04:09 AM veegee: I need a cutter grinder like his
04:10 AM veegee: Also need a slow speed diamond grinder like his
04:11 AM enleth: Steve Summers is building a slow speed grinder for carbide right now
04:12 AM enleth: a simple thing for hand grinding
04:12 AM veegee: But first need to make some metal bushings for these grinding wheels
04:12 AM veegee: Shame on Norton
04:13 AM veegee: $50 for an 8" grinding wheel and it doesn't spin true. Every time I get vibration in any kind of bonded grinding wheel, I get super nervous about it exploding
04:14 AM veegee: I've been using carbide coated metal wheels instead of abrasive cutoff wheels on my angle grinders and such recently for that reason
04:14 AM veegee: And other such wheels made of solid metal and just coated with diamond or some other carbide
04:14 AM veegee: Exploding wheels are scary.
04:43 AM enleth: and rare, fortunately
04:45 AM enleth: I've had many grinder wheels ripped to shreds or twisted off the hub while engaged with the material, so at a significantly lower speed than nominal - but no explosions
04:47 AM enleth: the former caused by catching while cutting in an inconvenient position, and the material clamping on the wheel due to internal stresses, respectively
04:48 AM enleth: the twisted off ones are funny, wheel is intact on the perimeter but the whole center section is missing
05:09 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:09 AM XXCoder: yo
05:33 AM Deejay: noon
05:34 AM XXCoder: night
08:45 AM sync: veegee: why would you get nervous? you can just true the OD, if it is out of balance you can just drill the side with a masonry bit to get it balanced
09:17 AM jthornton: guy on the forum is frustrated trying to get a 7i92 to work and is trying to return the card... nope
09:30 AM roycroft: taking returns on such things would be rather risky, i should think
09:30 AM roycroft: you never know what the purchaser fed the board
09:32 AM jthornton: exactly
09:33 AM jthornton: Peter is trying to help the guy but he doesn't seem to be listening
09:33 AM roycroft: at best, accepting the return conditionally with a restocking fee and recertification fee if it tests good
09:33 AM roycroft: i would not even begin to mess with that though
09:34 AM jthornton: I'm not setup to test any cards
09:45 AM Roguish: jthornton, Peter has some pretty good diagnostic software (and hardware) to test boards with.... been on that road.
09:46 AM Roguish: but it's quite time consuming.
09:47 AM Roguish: hey, we had a pretty good little shake yesterday evening. about a 4.0 down in Castro Valley, about 25 miles as the crow flys
09:48 AM Roguish: quakes are sooo cool.
09:48 AM Roguish: roycroft, you're probably still sweltering.....
09:51 AM jthornton: we have a fault near here and a long time ago the ground dropped 50' down the fault line
09:51 AM Roguish: a very, very long time ago? millions?
09:52 AM Roguish: of years?
09:52 AM _methods: femtoseconds
09:52 AM roycroft: no, it's cooled off here
09:52 AM Roguish: millionth of a billionth.........
09:53 AM roycroft: and a phrase that i never thought would escape my lips is "it's hot here, but at least we're not in british columbia"
09:53 AM roycroft: it got up to 46.7 degrees in the interior of bc yesterday, and today will be even hotter
09:56 AM Roguish: _methods, I worked on a turbo charger for a free electron laser that operated at that frequency. sort of a strobe light, except the light was high energy xrays. pulses were in femtosecond bursts.
09:56 AM Roguish: you could count the photons, and they did. at SLAC.
09:57 AM _methods: i can barely work a timing chain gun
10:09 AM mrec_: I guess there's no one who knows about g71 with linuxcnc here?
10:09 AM mrec_: https://snipboard.io/AyOfm6.jpg
10:10 AM * jthornton decides it's not a good idea to run the hot plate in the machine shop
10:10 AM mrec_: I would like to slow down the yellow part of the canned cycle
10:10 AM mrec_: since this is the part where the parting tool fully cuts into the material
10:10 AM jthornton: hmm that's only in master?
10:10 AM mrec_: yes
10:11 AM mrec_: it's very nice
10:11 AM mrec_: but needs some fine tuning it seems
10:20 AM jthornton: Roguish, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Madrid_Seismic_Zone
10:22 AM jthornton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1811%E2%80%931812_New_Madrid_earthquakes
10:26 AM skunkworks: Andy would probably be the expert on the turning cycles..
10:26 AM skunkworks: I have not played with them yet.
10:29 AM Roguish: jthornton, oh, yeah, I know about the New Madrid fault. it's a significant one.....
10:33 AM jthornton: it's about 75 miles from me
10:33 AM jthornton: opps 60 miles as the crow flys
10:34 AM roycroft: or as the earth cracks
10:34 AM roycroft: we're way overdue for a major earthquake here
10:38 AM roycroft: jt - i was looking at the incra i-box some more, and i'm correct - you cannot vary the spacing between the fingers within a joint
10:38 AM roycroft: you can vary the overall thickness/spacing of them
10:39 AM roycroft: but you can't do what i was talking about - making the finger at the lid joint a saw kerf wider than the rest
10:39 AM roycroft: that doesn't mean it's not useful, of course
10:40 AM roycroft: but it's not as flexible as the ls positioner
10:41 AM roycroft: and i have to say, pyrouterjig has been an amazingly useful tool for me - i use it every time i cut box joints, and that software doesn't work with the i-box
10:45 AM jthornton: do you use the ls positioner on your router table or table saw?
10:47 AM roycroft: on my router table
10:47 AM roycroft: it could be used on a table saw as well
10:47 AM roycroft: i guess you'd set up a dado stack, measure it carefully, and enter that measurement into pyrouterjig
10:48 AM roycroft: i don't see why that would not work brilliantly
10:48 AM roycroft: i've considered getting a ts positioner
10:49 AM roycroft: i replaced my biesemeyer fence (bump and pray set) with a vega a couple years ago, as i had a vega on my old tablesaw and really liked it
10:49 AM roycroft: but the old vega was the "pro" model, and the new one the standard model, and while it functions the same, it's not as robust as the pro version
10:49 AM roycroft: i'm a bit disappointed with it
10:50 AM jthornton: the fence seems to be pretty good on the sawstop, but what do I know?
10:50 AM roycroft: the ts positioner would be even more precise and would be repeatable, which virtually no other table saw fences are
10:51 AM roycroft: but it takes up a lot of space, and i find myself needing to remove the fence on a regular basis, which is trivial with a biesemeyer or vega, but not so much with the incra ts
10:51 AM roycroft: i get where you're coming from though
10:52 AM roycroft: box joints are a lot faster to cut on a table saw than on a router table, especially big ones
10:52 AM roycroft: setup is so much easier with the ls positioner and pyrouterjig, though
10:53 AM roycroft: i just open up the app, fill in the parameters, and print the strips for the jig
10:53 AM roycroft: i put the router bit in the spindle, line up the front of the bit with the fence (which can be adjusted to 0.001" with the ls positioner), then insert the strip
10:54 AM roycroft: line up the "align" mark with the cursor, and it's ready to go
10:54 AM roycroft: well, i also have to set the height, but that is also trivial
10:54 AM roycroft: no test pieces needed
10:58 AM jthornton: for me I've made one drawer with finger joints and need to make 2 more... when I'll make another no one knows
10:59 AM roycroft: my experience is that once you get a tool that makes them trivial to make, you'll make them more often
11:00 AM roycroft: for fine furniture, dovetail joints are still the way to go, and always will be, but for shop/utility fixtures, finger joints are fine
11:00 AM roycroft: there is plenty of long grain to long grain contact in a finger joint, so if it fits well it's incredibly strong
11:01 AM jthornton: actually when I acquire some 3/4 plywood I want to make a storage cabinet for under the table saw wing
11:01 AM jthornton: so a few more drawers there but I might make them using the 1/4, 1/4, 1/4 method
11:01 AM roycroft: for what you're doing, the i-box might be fine
11:02 AM roycroft: the only disadvantage to that for what you've described is that you can't use pyrouterjig
11:02 AM roycroft: and setup is a bit more fiddly
11:04 AM roycroft: for me, i can say "i want to make finger joints for these drawers, using a 3/8" router bit, the drawers are 4-13/64" high, and i'm using 12mm bb plywood", pump that into pyrouter jig in about 30 seconds, print out the strips, and i'm ready to make perfectly centered finger joints in the drawers
11:04 AM roycroft: i like that a lot
11:05 AM roycroft: but if you're making them once in a blue moon, the time you save doesn't justify the added expense of the ls positioner over the i-box
11:07 AM roycroft: if you want variable spacing of the fingers, or you want the fingers on the sides to be, say, 1-1/2 times as wide as on the fronts, then pyrouterjig + ls positioner is needed
11:07 AM roycroft: and you can cut dovetails with the ls positioner, which you can't do with the i-box
11:07 AM roycroft: and pyrouterjig can make dovetail templates
11:29 AM Roguish: roycroft, yeah, you're up in the Pac NW.... you have the Pacific Subduction Zone.....
11:31 AM roycroft: yup
11:31 AM roycroft: we're in an earthquake 4 zone, and we haven't had a major earthquake in over 100 years
11:33 AM Roguish: i'm right near the Hayward fault. it's almost as big as the San Andreas. and way overdue. used to live right on the San Andreas in the Oakland hills.
11:33 AM roycroft: seattle had a 6.2 a few years ago, but that did nothing to release stress down here
11:33 AM roycroft: we get 5+ quakes well off the coast on a regular basis, but nothing more than 3.2 or so here in the valley
11:36 AM Roguish: check this out. coolest website. https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/map/?extent=19.31114,-125.46387&extent=53.51418,-64.55566
11:37 AM roycroft: i know that website well :)
11:37 AM Roguish: love it. at least one worth my tax money.........
11:38 AM roycroft: and the map is eerily quiet today
11:38 AM Roguish: goto go. bbl. ttfn
12:15 PM Joe_Hildreth: JT, you around?
12:17 PM jthornton: kinda
12:18 PM Joe_Hildreth: JT, I just ordered a few bits from mesaus.com. In the order was two sff brackets. Will these fit the DB25F-IDC26-BRACKET?
12:19 PM Joe_Hildreth: sff bracket is the DB25 Low Profile Bracket
12:22 PM jthornton: yep the low profile brackets fit the db25-idc26
12:23 PM jthornton: hmm no photo of the low profile bracket
12:29 PM Joe_Hildreth: No phote. Thank you sir. Just wanted to make sure.
12:35 PM jthornton: https://mesaus.com/product-category/hardware/
12:35 PM jthornton: no problem
12:35 PM jthornton: Tom_L, paypal closed the case
12:35 PM * jthornton dances around the machine shop lol
12:37 PM Joe_Hildreth: John, do you manage the mesaus site?
12:38 PM Tom_L: yay
12:39 PM jthornton: Joe_Hildreth, mesaus.com is me
12:40 PM Joe_Hildreth: ok, do you plan on offering the software from your site too? I see manuals but didn't notice links to software.
12:41 PM _methods: heheh i can't wait for jthornton to start doing software support too
12:42 PM jthornton: I already do my software support
01:00 PM drdoc: XXCoder: the crunchy steppers smoothed right out when I loosened up the driver timing
01:00 PM Tom_L: were you the one with the squealing stepper?
01:00 PM Tom_L: nema17
01:01 PM drdoc: no, nema23, they sounded like a cheap coffee grinder
01:01 PM Tom_L: step timing?
01:01 PM drdoc: yes
01:02 PM drdoc: well, no
01:02 PM drdoc: dir hold, etc
01:03 PM drdoc: step time, space, direction hold & setup
01:03 PM Tom_L: probably mostly step time & space
01:04 PM drdoc: I have ChinaCo DM542T drives and made the mistake of using Leadshine's timing
01:05 PM drdoc: 2000ns across the board, basically
01:06 PM drdoc: set it to whatever pncconf uses for Gecko 540 and they sing like a bird
01:06 PM jthornton: Joe_Hildreth, looks like some pretty country around you
01:06 PM drdoc: 5k for step and 10k for dir I think
01:08 PM drdoc: Tom_L: and yes, I know it's called "tramming"
01:09 PM drdoc: I spent 40 years doing fab work and the last 5 or so in machine shops
01:17 PM jthornton: damn a package to canada just left miami for who know where...
01:20 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:26 PM Joe_Hildreth: John, Yes I live on the western rim in middle Tennessee very near KY Lake. Humidity sucks, but the area is clean and fertile!
01:28 PM Joe_Hildreth: jthornton, I know you have compiled preempt-rt kernels. Have you had issues with uefi and the compiled kernel?
01:30 PM Joe_Hildreth: Dang John, you got that out the door pretty quick!
01:33 PM roycroft: when i was a kid we used to vacation in the land between the lakes every other year or so
01:33 PM roycroft: up in kentucky
01:33 PM roycroft: it's a nice area
01:34 PM Joe_Hildreth: I am just south of there.
01:34 PM Joe_Hildreth: Waverly, TN
01:35 PM roycroft: i don't remember the name of the place we used to camp
01:35 PM roycroft: that was 50 years ago
01:36 PM roycroft: i do remember that it was owned by a kentucky colonel, who wore the white suit and had the goatee beard with the handlebar moustache
01:37 PM Joe_Hildreth: HAHA Awesome. I have only been to the Land Between the Lakes park.
01:39 PM roycroft: i have vague, but fond memories of that area
02:30 PM _methods: https://fractalvise.com/
02:30 PM _methods: cool vise
02:33 PM andypugh_: Based on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeOgGt_oWU but I rather imagine that you know that.
02:34 PM _methods: ah the little jaws on that one are diff
02:34 PM andypugh_: Looks even more fractally.
02:34 PM _methods: and much bigger
02:39 PM _methods: man i wonder how much it would cost to make one of those now
02:39 PM _methods: all those dovetails and ground
02:40 PM _methods: radius dovetails
02:42 PM robotustra: to fix not rectangular part in the vise it's enough 3 points of contact
02:43 PM robotustra: this vise is just an overkill imho
02:43 PM _methods: definitely
02:43 PM _methods: still cool though
02:45 PM robotustra: but if somebody give me such vise, I will not refuse :)
02:45 PM robotustra: for free of cause
02:47 PM robotustra: anybody in here has a laser waterjet?
02:47 PM _methods: not a laser waterjet
02:47 PM _methods: laser
02:47 PM _methods: and we have a waterjet
02:47 PM Rab: That vise is cool, but I think with all the component clearances stacked up it's probably not very reproducable. I wouldn't rely on the positioning for production work.
02:49 PM robotustra: yeah, and basement of the part is also problematic
02:49 PM _methods: yeah there's no way you could repeat position i would think
02:49 PM Rab: (Not an issue for hand engraving)
02:49 PM _methods: but for a one off op holding a weird shaped part
02:49 PM _methods: repair work
02:49 PM _methods: or castings
02:51 PM jthornton: we ride the Spyder to land between the lakes every october
02:52 PM jthornton: Joe_Hildreth, can't say I've ever had any issue compiling a preempt-rt kernel but I don't do that anymore just too easy with Debian 10, you just select the rt kernel and go
02:52 PM jthornton: now that debian has mate the desktop is more friendly
02:54 PM * robotustra added an editor to the cad
02:58 PM * robotustra thinking is it better to update model after saving the file or after entering a command.
03:01 PM robotustra: https://imgur.com/UmF8qmv
03:23 PM Joe_Hildreth: jthornton, you are installing mate after the initial install fo Debian 10?
03:37 PM jthornton: no, debian 10 if you pick the right one has the mate desktop
03:38 PM jthornton: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/debian10-rt.htmluspace/debian10-rt.html
03:38 PM Tom_L: he's not here
03:38 PM jthornton: :\
03:38 PM jthornton: he'll be back
03:38 PM Tom_L: yup
03:38 PM * jthornton goes back to stripping
03:39 PM Rab: Malformed URL, looks like double-pasted.
03:39 PM Rab: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/debian10-rt.html
03:39 PM Tom_L: in case you wanna view it in 3d
03:40 PM jthornton: yep the mouse keeps doing that...
03:40 PM Tom_L: damn rodent
03:41 PM Tom_L: jthornton, you finish the spoke machine?
03:43 PM jthornton: waiting on them to move the cam shaft for the tail end
03:44 PM veegee: Tom_L I'm going to get more pet mice
03:44 PM veegee: They're adorable
03:45 PM veegee: They're also fun to release in restaurants
04:10 PM Joe_Hildreth: what command do you issue to see previous posts?
04:13 PM Joe_Hildreth: Kewl. Thank you.
04:13 PM Joe_Hildreth: Thanks John for the link
04:35 PM jthornton: np
06:21 PM XXCoder: lol https://nypost.com/2021/06/24/police-stop-exorcism-in-home-depot-lumber-aisle/amp/
06:28 PM XXCoder: nice https://www.wikihouse.cc/Projects
06:28 PM XXCoder: too bad plywood is so expensive!
06:57 PM roycroft: i stopped at nypost.com :)
06:58 PM XXCoder: hmm yeah pretty shitty newsguard says
06:58 PM XXCoder: that specfic news i can trust to have happend though
07:00 PM XXCoder: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/763323422746345472/859580593780293682/unknown.png
07:26 PM veegee: Is there a specific reason that bench grinding wheels have plastic bushings?
07:27 PM veegee: They have a lot of play. Is that intentional?
07:27 PM veegee: Perhaps to absorb shock?
07:27 PM veegee: Because I'm about to turn some metal bushings with a large flange to keep the grinding wheels as straight as possible on the bench grinder
07:28 PM veegee: The little 6" one looks like it's going to make the perfect direct mount toolpost grinder
07:28 PM veegee: These aren't random sum-ting-wong brand wheels. These are Norton wheels, which are supposed to be good
07:29 PM Tom_L: cheaper to mfg
07:29 PM veegee: Yeah that's what I was hoping
07:29 PM Tom_L: i experienced the same thing recently
07:30 PM veegee: No reason a bench grinder should have any vibration whatsoever
07:30 PM Tom_L: made a bushing and went on with things
07:30 PM veegee: Without the wheels, it's so quiet I can't even tell that it's on
07:30 PM Tom_L: they MUST be made from tool steel though
07:30 PM Tom_L: :)
07:31 PM veegee: I was thinking just mild steel since it's cheap
07:31 PM * Tom_L waits to see if veegee buys that
07:31 PM CloudEvil: Aluminium is probably just fine
07:31 PM veegee: But was also contemplating brass because it's easier to machine to tolerance
07:31 PM Tom_L: i dunno what i used, alum or brass probably
07:31 PM veegee: Brass is expensive, so I generally don't keep a stock of that
07:32 PM Tom_L: whatever i had that was closest to the size i needed
07:32 PM veegee: And aluminum is pretty useless for most of what I do so I don't stock that either
07:32 PM Tom_L: i try to keep a little brass on hand
07:32 PM veegee: With A36 being the cheapest thing, I just have loads of that
07:32 PM veegee: And 1045 and some 4140
07:33 PM veegee: Plastic bushings also make it impossible to true the wheel with a diamond dresser
07:34 PM veegee: They just cause the wheel to move back and never let you get a perfectly circular wheel
07:34 PM veegee: The difference between a perfect grinding wheel and one that causes a lot of vibration is immense
07:39 PM roycroft: i rarely use a grinding wheel
07:39 PM roycroft: i have one for lathe tooling that i do use
07:39 PM roycroft: but most of my other stuff i do on the belt grinder these days
07:40 PM * roycroft wonders when veegee is ever going to get a decent belt grinder
07:40 PM veegee: It's on the list
07:40 PM veegee: But tool and cutter grinder is a higher priority
09:02 PM roycroft: well that was fun
09:03 PM roycroft: i needed to make a shallow drawer for my new sander cabinet, so i grabbed some ash scraps, milled them square, and made drawer sides out out of them using hand-cut dovetails for the joinery
09:04 PM roycroft: i'm not the greatest at hand cut dovetails, and my dovetail saw started falling apart mid-project (literally - the back came off and the blade started wobbling in the handle)
09:04 PM roycroft: but they turned out ok - a little ugly, but accurate on dimensions, and a tight fit
09:05 PM roycroft: fortunately they will be invisible in the cabinet, so the ugliness will not be apparent to anyone but me
09:24 PM {HD}: what do you people use for footware in the shop? Standing on concrete in what I thought were nice shoes is starting to get to me. I have mats at the stations but just walking/standing other places is starting to get to me.
10:01 PM Tom_L: mats just collect chips
10:03 PM Tom_L: when i _was_ in the shop all day every day, i just wore regular shoes
10:04 PM Tom_L: roycroft, we will know it's there
10:08 PM Tom_L: {HD}, you _could_ wear steel toes but depending on how big the material is you work with, that may not be the greatest idea
10:09 PM {HD}: Yea, I don't need protection I need comfort
10:09 PM Tom_L: if a 25' slab of 6" aluminum landed on them they would permanently smash into your toes
10:09 PM Tom_L: either way you're hurt, but at least you can get your boot off
10:14 PM roycroft: my garage shop has a concrete floor
10:14 PM roycroft: i use stall mats around the machines/benches
10:22 PM roycroft: and know you think you may, tom_l, but prove you may not
10:24 PM Tom_L: huh?
11:07 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:20 PM veegee: I've been considering an engine swap for my 2007 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited
11:20 PM veegee: These gas prices are ridiculous
11:21 PM veegee: I spent $200 on a nice tool, but forgot that it was located a 4 hour drive away. Now I'm contemplating whether I should just forfeit it because the cost of gas to get there and back is likely going to be almost as much as I paid for the tool
11:23 PM veegee: It's a 3 phase Baldor bench grinder I bought from the government several months ago but been putting off picking it up because of the 800km total driving distance
11:24 PM veegee: It's probably too heavy to carry on my motorcycle
11:28 PM veegee: 800km • 12L/100km * $1.30/L = $125 :(