#linuxcnc Logs

Jun 26 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:05 AM roycroft: wenatchee is going to disintegrate
12:12 AM XXCoder: it'd be transformed to glass plains
12:28 AM snakedLX is now known as snaked
12:39 AM veegee: fuck me sideways
12:39 AM veegee: running the lathe at top speed with a carbide insert
12:39 AM veegee: shirtless
12:40 AM veegee: smoking hot chips flying at my bare chest
12:58 AM veegee: This might be a stupid question because I had a few drinks
12:58 AM veegee: But what is the dial on the cross slide telling me? Depth of cut? Or amount of shaving off the _diameter_
12:59 AM veegee: My DRO is currently sitting on my electronics bench for repair, so I have to resort to old school dials
12:59 AM veegee: I dialed in 1mm, and it's taking off 1mm off the diameter of the part, not the radiuis
01:00 AM veegee: Or am I just being incredibly stupid right now?
01:00 AM veegee: I did this test again with 0.5mm and 2mm and got the same result
01:01 AM veegee: I expected it to represent depth of cut, therefore taking off 2x that value from the diameter
01:04 AM veegee: The mix of alcohol + xanax + diphenhydramine + one that says DO NOT OPERATE HEAVY MACHINERY might be slightly messing with my head right about now
01:28 AM CaptHindsight[m]: safety first, at least your clothing won't get caught in it
01:30 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://youtu.be/o5AXKYctOMs?t=84
01:31 AM XXCoder: safety squint time
01:34 AM CaptHindsight[m]: well they don't clarify what HEAVY is
01:34 AM CaptHindsight[m]: to a child that might be 20lbs
01:34 AM CaptHindsight[m]: equipment operator 20,000
01:35 AM Deejay: moin
01:35 AM CaptHindsight[m]: when I'm tired a 10lb hammer feels heavy
01:38 AM CaptHindsight[m]: veegee: I'd say stay away from anything over 25Kg or has a motor/engine
01:39 AM CaptHindsight[m]: and lawn darts
01:40 AM XXCoder: i dented my dads truck with lawn dart
02:30 AM enleth: veegee: this can actually differ from lathe to lathe depending on place and time of manufacture
02:31 AM enleth: frankly, I don't even remember what mine does, the DRO takes care of this
03:37 AM veegee: Yeah mine indicates diameter, not depth of cut
03:50 AM rs[m]: also, IRC and social media should be classified as either having a motor or heavy
03:51 AM XXCoder: true, all internet root servers and other servers total in weight is very very heavy
04:23 AM Tom_L: morning
04:23 AM XXCoder: yo
05:06 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:07 AM XXCoder: lo
05:56 AM JT-Cave: replacement dro board for my drum sander will ship on 8/17/21 :(
05:57 AM XXCoder: ow
06:18 AM mrec: Spida: there are a few issues with small dovetails, the bigger they are the more accurate they will be
06:20 AM mrec: I think the accuracy of my machine is good, 0.05mm at least the problem is it's really a very individual machine the drilled holes from the manufacturer are +/- 1mm off sometimes
08:40 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, i wonder if they have to make one
08:44 AM JT-Cave: ain't no telling...
08:49 AM Tom_L: you send that note to Au?
08:55 AM JT-Cave: Au?
08:56 AM Tom_L: australia
08:56 AM JT-Cave: you mean PayPal? no, I'll do that this weekend
08:59 AM JT-Cave: I have until the 30th so make the bitch wait lol
08:59 AM Tom_L: heh
10:05 AM _unreal_: man I hate high face count images
10:06 AM _unreal_: dont have a choice
10:06 AM _unreal_: takes for ever to get operations done
10:19 AM roycroft: it's only 8am, and it's 23 degrees already
10:19 AM * roycroft braces for the mother of all heat waves
10:19 AM roycroft: 40 today, 46 tomorrow, upper 30s through independence day
10:25 AM Tom_L: maybe it will rain on that day
10:25 AM Tom_L: my pets' most unfavorite day
10:26 AM _unreal_: all we have been getting as of late is rain
10:26 AM _unreal_: then again we have had more or less 6 months of drought
10:30 AM JT-Shop: Tom_L, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/kD2MbRWgCT/
10:30 AM JT-Shop: I think that's what I'm going to say
10:31 AM _unreal_: FINALLLLY got it.
10:31 AM _unreal_: been trying to close faces in this cad drawing for ever
10:31 AM JT-Shop: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Qn4z32MwgK/
10:31 AM _unreal_: I cant print it till I can join all of the faces
10:31 AM _unreal_: cura just freaks out
10:32 AM _unreal_: the one time I thought I had it again CURA looked fine everything seemsed to be fine but when I wnet to print it. it started fine. then the print head went crazy and ran off into the side no idea why?'
10:32 AM roycroft: it probably won't rain again until september
10:35 AM roycroft: i've had a partial load of tree trimmings on my pickup for a couple weeks
10:35 AM roycroft: i've been waiting for the new tabs to arrive for the truck before hauling it off to recycling
10:35 AM roycroft: they finally arrived yesterday (it took six weeks for the state to send them)
10:36 AM roycroft: so i should probably fill the load with some blackberry brambles and haul the stuff off before it gets too unbearably hot
10:54 AM Tom_L: JT-Shop, i would make mention that they _DID_ receive their package as ordered
10:56 AM Tom_L: _unreal_, some cad deal with that ALOT better than others
11:00 AM _unreal_: ok just swapped keyboards WTF
11:00 AM _unreal_: every time I type with that keyboard it puts up jiberish on the sceen
11:00 AM _unreal_: screen
11:00 AM _unreal_: I press t I get t, I press k I get /k/
11:00 AM _unreal_: and its just random when it does it
11:00 AM _unreal_: and the combos are random WTF
11:01 AM buzzmarshall: _unreal if you have access to netfabb its one of the best for making sure everythings closed when doing additive processes like 3d printing
11:01 AM buzzmarshall: thats all i use netfabb for
11:01 AM _unreal_: design spark mechanical 5 is total garbage
11:01 AM _unreal_: I'm reverting back to ve3rsion 4
11:01 AM _unreal_: they clearly have a lot of coding issues and have broken most of the software in the latest release
11:02 AM _unreal_: I just did some tests with 4 and the same objects just CLOSE
11:02 AM JT-Shop: tom, I have a screenshot of the delivery conformation and I'm including a screenshot of her order with the shipping charge circled
11:20 AM _unreal_: FINALLY got it!!!
11:20 AM _unreal_: been trying to include this thread from the 3d design
11:21 AM _unreal_: but I kept running into issues of it not wanting to close all faces
11:21 AM _unreal_: ok NOW I can rebuild the rest of it
11:21 AM _unreal_: OMG what a pain in the ass that was
11:22 AM _unreal_: more or less what I'm doing is rebuilding the top half of this cyclone because the original design is wrong
11:23 AM _unreal_: the proportions are all wrong on the upper cyclones. so the flow is very restrictive
11:56 AM Tom_L: went to get a box store item not to mention any names..(HD). shelf says one thing, website says the same thing, register says something $20 higher. checkout clerk says this is mis'marked and went and pulled all the items
11:57 AM Tom_L: did however get it for the marked price
11:58 AM Tom_L: she was nice but an old bitty that should be sitting with her knitting
12:00 PM Tom_L: i took notice because the additional $20 not quite doubled the cost
12:03 PM Tom_L: fwiw JT-Shop, not lumber :)
12:32 PM roycroft: lumber is going way down in price
12:33 PM * roycroft is back from recycling, and aims to stay in his shop or office for the rest of the day, as those spaces have ac
12:34 PM XXCoder: finally. though jt got lumber fairly cheaply except for sheets
12:34 PM XXCoder: it was 110
12:34 PM JT-Shop: timber price is down but not lumber or usb
12:34 PM roycroft: fortunately hardwoods did not go up as much as construction lumber
12:35 PM CloudEvil: 'this is why my house is framed in padauk, it was cheaper than pine at the time'
12:36 PM JT-Shop: I've not priced any hardwood at our local place... I should see if an oak 2x4 is cheaper than pine lol
12:37 PM JT-Shop: menards took all the lumber prices off in the lumber yard
12:37 PM JT-Shop: speaking of hardwood, I'm going out to the other shop to mill some oak
12:40 PM roycroft: i'm going out to work on my drawer pulls again
12:40 PM roycroft: i destroyed the first one yesterday - my jig was not rigid enough
12:41 PM roycroft: and i got discouraged and quit for the day
12:41 PM roycroft: fortunately i made some extra blanks, anticipating that i may destroy one or two
01:51 PM * JT-Shop takes five with Dave Brubeck
02:45 PM roycroft: i was privileged to be able see dave brubeck perform about 20 years ago
02:45 PM roycroft: it was his first performance in eugene since 1978
02:46 PM roycroft: and he told stories of how he and john belushi got drunk together while belushi was filming here
02:46 PM roycroft: seems like an odd couple, eh?
02:47 PM roycroft: he told a lot of other stories, but that was the least expected
03:04 PM JT-Shop: I remember you telling this
03:08 PM roycroft: it's a fond memory
03:08 PM roycroft: i'm sure i've told it many times over the years
03:09 PM roycroft: today's challenge:
03:09 PM roycroft: make a drawer template jig with a curve that has a 13+ foot radius
03:09 PM roycroft: not a difficult task, generally
03:10 PM roycroft: however, i need a 13+ foot stick
03:10 PM roycroft: and it is too hot to work outside or even open my garage door
03:10 PM roycroft: so i have to construct the stick inside my small shop without opening the door
03:11 PM roycroft: i tried making it freehand already and that is a major part of the problem with my jig that is destroying parts
03:11 PM roycroft: i need the curve to be close to perfect
03:12 PM roycroft: i need to turn my shop into a sliding squares puzzle so i can make room to build this jig
03:13 PM roycroft: and i wonder if even then there will be enough room
03:13 PM * roycroft needs a bigger shop
03:16 PM Vq: roycroft: That's a constant
03:16 PM JT-Cave: https://www.finewoodworking.com/2019/08/27/a-trick-for-drawing-shallow-curves
03:21 PM roycroft: drawing them is no problem
03:21 PM roycroft: i did that in autocad, and glued a printout on the mdf to make the jig
03:21 PM roycroft: but i could not get the curve perfectly smooth
03:22 PM roycroft: i need matching concave and convex jigs that mate perfectly
03:23 PM roycroft: i even tried cutting them as accurately as possible, then attaching self-adhesive sandpaper to one piece and sanding the other with it, then switching the sandpaper to the other piece and sanding the first one
03:23 PM roycroft: they curves were good, but not perfect
03:23 PM roycroft: so now i'm going to make a radius jig for a router and make the curves with the router
03:23 PM JT-Shop: I wonder if you can use something like that with a sander or router to get the curve perfect?
03:24 PM roycroft: hmm
03:24 PM roycroft: that's a thought
03:24 PM * JT-Shop goes out to the other shop to separate firewood from lumber
03:24 PM roycroft: firewood is box material
03:27 PM roycroft: i think i might be able to make a router jig using that technique
03:28 PM roycroft: i've hand drawn arcs using essentially that method before, btw
03:29 PM roycroft: drive nails into the template at the outer two points, and use a flexible rule to lay out the arc, pushing the middle of the rule to the middle point, then tracing along the rule
03:58 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:01 PM JT-Shop: I make stickers and other stuff from the firewood until it gets too small then it goes in the kindling buckets
04:22 PM roycroft: are you familiar with matt cremona, jt-shop?
04:37 PM JT-Shop: no
04:38 PM JT-Shop: looking
04:40 PM JT-Shop: interesting character for sure
04:46 PM JT-Shop: https://mattcremona.com/woodworking-projects/small-projects/live-face-bench
04:49 PM roycroft: he makes his stickers out of cherry
04:49 PM roycroft: and yeah, he's pretty well known for his bench slabs
04:50 PM roycroft: i considered getting a couple slabs from him for my bench, but it would have cost way too much and taken way too long to get them
04:50 PM roycroft: i'm happy with my laminated bench top
04:50 PM roycroft: but big slabs would have been nice
04:51 PM roycroft: if i had a bigger property i'd be interested in a sawmill like his
04:51 PM roycroft: and doing my own urban lumber thing
05:05 PM puff: Whatever happened to #cnczone?
05:07 PM JT-Shop: I only managed to get one 2x12x12 SYP #1 home before the crap hit the fan
05:17 PM Eric_: I wonder how long it will take for lumber prices to go back down, futures are pre-bubble now
05:18 PM Eric_: I don't see many people buying lumber at the borgs, but they have plenty of it
05:18 PM Eric_: two college aged guys had a cart full of 16' long boards the other day, no idea what they were building
05:28 PM roycroft: they are down in many parts of the country already, by as much as 40%
05:29 PM roycroft: i suspect futures will go down shortly, as the supply chain improves
05:30 PM roycroft: i've no idea what's going on with the resin shortage, though
05:32 PM rs[m]: resin shortage is a consequence of decreased jet fuel production
05:33 PM rs[m]: according to one of our suppliers
05:34 PM roycroft: in large part it's a consequence of the complete shutdown of ethylene production in texas due to the freeze last winter
05:34 PM roycroft: pvc generally is in short supply because of that
05:34 PM roycroft: and for some reason, those plants are still not back up to full production
05:34 PM roycroft: perhaps they were actually damaged because of the freeze
05:35 PM roycroft: something like 70% of the ethylene produced in the us was from texas
05:36 PM roycroft: it is now 38 degrees, and we're still on target to hit 40 today
05:36 PM roycroft: then it gets hot tomorrow
05:36 PM rs[m]: F or C?
05:37 PM roycroft: the latter
05:37 PM Tom_L: talking to a lumberyard owner the increased use of rail to haul oil instead of wood has partially caused the recent increases in lumber
05:37 PM roycroft: if i ever use archaic units i'll stipulate them :)
05:37 PM roycroft: that could be, tom_l
05:37 PM roycroft: or it could be a bunch of hooey
05:37 PM Tom_L: they should have left the pipe open
05:37 PM roycroft: i don't know either way
05:38 PM roycroft: but if the lumberyard owner has a political agenda, that story could fit into it nicely
05:38 PM Tom_L: he's in the business and has been for quite a few decades
05:38 PM roycroft: that doesn't mean anything
05:38 PM Tom_L: i think he would know
05:38 PM roycroft: i don't know this person
05:38 PM roycroft: he may know
05:38 PM roycroft: but he may also be lying to support his agenda
05:38 PM roycroft: it's been known to happen
05:39 PM Tom_L: didn't sound like it
05:39 PM roycroft: as i said, i don't know him
05:39 PM Tom_L: he's actually retired but still sitting on the board
05:39 PM rs[m]: CEO of our supplier sent out email detailing that refineries shut down because of low jet fuel consumption, therefore a shortage of all sorts of by-products needed for plastics and resins developed
05:39 PM roycroft: and i'm not making any assumptions
05:39 PM roycroft: but i'm also not going to just take the word of someone and believe it as fact
05:39 PM roycroft: he may be completely correct
05:39 PM roycroft: what i've read is that it's a combination of factors
05:40 PM roycroft: increased demand due to people spending money on home improvements instead of recreation and travel
05:40 PM roycroft: the "stimulus" checks as well account for that increase in demand
05:40 PM roycroft: a lot of mills cut back on production at the beginning of the pandemic, anticipating a recession
05:41 PM roycroft: and have had a hard time ramping back up
05:41 PM roycroft: for manufactured lumber products, its the resin shortage that is the primary factor
05:41 PM roycroft: and we're discussing the causes of that
05:42 PM roycroft: rs[m]'s argument makes a lot of sense
05:42 PM roycroft: and i've read about the texas production ceasing from multiple reputable sources
05:42 PM roycroft: we are probably both correct
05:43 PM rs[m]: i'm in europe, so maybe the texas plant should not affect us that much
05:43 PM roycroft: if the pipeline shutdown you're talking about is the keystone one, that should not have had any effect at all on anything domestic
05:43 PM rs[m]: but i'm pretty sure it's not a singular reason
05:43 PM roycroft: none of that oil was to be used in this country
05:44 PM roycroft: the pandemic caused all sorts of havoc
05:44 PM roycroft: in ways that even people who make their living anticipating such things could not predict
05:45 PM rs[m]: there is a kind of a traffic jam. the cause of the traffic jam is mostly remedied but the jam takes time to dissolve
05:45 PM roycroft: we're never going back to the before times
05:45 PM roycroft: we had a pre-pandemic economy
05:45 PM roycroft: a pandemic economy
05:46 PM roycroft: and now a post-pandemic economy is emerging, that kind of resembles the pre-pandemic one, but is going to be a lot different
05:46 PM rs[m]: whatever. it's late and austria just lost to italy so time for bed. good night
05:46 PM roycroft: people who are unwilling to or incapable of changing are not going to survive
05:46 PM roycroft: ciaoder
05:46 PM * roycroft heads back to the shop
05:47 PM norias: Roycroft: now there's a statement
06:13 PM veegee: Other than her annoying voice, blondihacks is pretty cool
06:13 PM veegee: Until I read this: https://blondihacks.com/commenting-policy/
06:14 PM veegee: Something about that is really offputting, especially the "no mansplaining" part
06:15 PM XXCoder: author of manplaining had some guy try to manplain her about writing and publishing.
06:15 PM XXCoder: manplainers exist everywhere.
06:15 PM veegee: "Despite being female, I do actually know what I’m doing sometimes." yeah we get it, no one cared. It actually took me several days to figure out that she was actually a woman
06:15 PM XXCoder: if you know shes expert, then that section is not for you
06:16 PM roycroft: in the interest of abiding by the new linuxcnc guidelines, i'll not explain that to veegee
06:16 PM veegee: LOL!
06:18 PM veegee: All I'm saying is I don't care if she's a man/woman/cat/dog. That section was just a cringey read
06:18 PM veegee: Actually it would be pretty cool if she were a cat
06:18 PM roycroft: we have now officially tied the all-time high temperature for the month of june
06:18 PM roycroft: and there's another 90 minutes of warming yet to go
06:19 PM roycroft: we passed the record for the day some hours ago
06:19 PM XXCoder: roy i dont look forward to money
06:19 PM XXCoder: monday
06:19 PM roycroft: sunday is the hot day here
06:19 PM roycroft: 46 is the forecast still
06:19 PM XXCoder: 105f.
06:19 PM roycroft: we're at 39 right now
06:19 PM veegee: You're all hot days in my eyes ;)
06:19 PM roycroft: and should get up to 40
06:19 PM XXCoder: vee aww thanks, but im not in dating game now
06:19 PM roycroft: 39 is the record for june and august
06:19 PM roycroft: 42 for july
06:20 PM veegee: especially if you use metric
06:20 PM roycroft: so we will tomorrow blow away the all-time record high for eugene
06:20 PM XXCoder: fun
06:20 PM roycroft: yesterday it was warmer in eugene than in death valley
06:20 PM XXCoder: lets see. today 95f, tomorrow 96f, monday 105f
06:20 PM roycroft: but death valley is forecast to be in the upper 40s all of next week
06:21 PM roycroft: we'll thankfully drop down to the mid to upper 30s after tomorrow
06:21 PM XXCoder: it wont here till friday at 76f
06:21 PM roycroft: actually, low to mid 30s now - the forecast was just updated
06:21 PM veegee: like roycroft is right now. Making me all hot and bothered
06:21 PM roycroft: xxcoder: 46 degrees is 115f
06:21 PM XXCoder: insane
06:22 PM veegee: It's 27 in Toronto right now and that's too much for me
06:22 PM roycroft: seattle will be like an ice cube compared to here
06:22 PM roycroft: my shop and my office have ac
06:22 PM roycroft: so guess where i've been hanging out and will continue to hang out
06:22 PM XXCoder: i love my 2 hose ac
06:23 PM roycroft: my cat is miserable, so i opened my office door and let her in
06:23 PM roycroft: she came in, spent a couple minutes, then went back to the living room and is whining about the heat
06:23 PM roycroft: i don't get it
06:23 PM roycroft: it's nice and cool in here
06:23 PM roycroft: she wants it to be cool in the living room, and i can't make that happen
06:24 PM roycroft: anyway, i should get back to working on some drawers
06:24 PM XXCoder: ac and cooling is very abstract concept
06:28 PM veegee: XXCoder how so?
06:28 PM veegee: It's very well understood
06:28 PM XXCoder: to us humans yes
06:29 PM veegee: Well shade and cool surfaces are normal in nature
06:29 PM veegee: rocks by the lake sprayed with splashes of water on a hot day
06:29 PM veegee: in the shade by a tree
06:30 PM XXCoder: cats understand shades is cool yes
06:30 PM XXCoder: living room and ac cooled room is equally "shaded"
06:30 PM Tom_L: some animals dig trenches to lay in to keep cool
06:31 PM veegee: Tom_L some animals live in the water to keep even cooler!
06:32 PM veegee: Like 100% of the time
06:37 PM veegee: where do you buy blocks of cast iron for machining purposes?
06:37 PM veegee: The local metal suppliers sell everything except cast iron
06:40 PM enleth: veegee: search around for small foundries
06:40 PM enleth: a box-shaped cast piece is trivial to make inbetween pours
06:40 PM enleth: a small iron casting place will happily make it for you
06:41 PM veegee: enleth will do, thanks
06:42 PM enleth: there might be a whole small city in your general area that used to be an iron processing hub and still hosts a few artisanal foundries
06:42 PM veegee: blondihacks: "this is a DC lathe, so it can run in reverse" ...ok completely unrelated and an AC motor can run in reverse just as easily
06:43 PM veegee: blondihacks: "but it doesn't have the same power in reverse" ...why not? That's not how motors work
06:43 PM veegee: enleth yeah there's definitely _some_ place in Toronto that will pour cast iron
06:47 PM enleth: veegee: even brushed DC motors can be a bit more complex than that - did you know that the commutator can be designed to be "biased" for a specific running direction and does, in fact, give you less torque when run in reverse?
06:48 PM veegee: Yeah brushed DC motors can be biased like that
06:48 PM veegee: But if you run it long enough, the brushes form to it again
06:48 PM enleth: no, it's not just about brush offset
06:49 PM veegee: OH my bad, also forgot about armature reaction
06:50 PM enleth: the whole commutator can be rotated slightly relative to the rotor windings to give "advance" switchover
06:50 PM enleth: so the magnetic plane is better aligned with armature
06:51 PM veegee: ah yeah, I know what you're talking about
06:52 PM enleth: but if you do it, you also screw up the magnetic plane position for reverse direction
06:52 PM enleth: I'
06:53 PM enleth: I'm pretty sure blondihacks' lathe is an older PM model with a brushed motor
06:53 PM veegee: Yeah it's a PM 1022V
06:54 PM enleth: so it sucks at low speeds, and in this case, it sucks in reverse too, because they used commutator advance to squeeze a little bit more torque out of it
06:54 PM enleth: probably to help with low speed torque
06:55 PM veegee: Yeah it is a brushed motor
06:55 PM veegee: That makes sense. My bad
06:57 PM veegee: PM has a weird flex: "Leadscrews Are True Inch Pitch Screws (Not Metric Conversions Like Many)"
06:57 PM puff: Good afternoon. Is it okay to ask questions about using vcarve here?
06:57 PM puff: There used to be #cnczone but it appears to be gone from freenode and, I'm guessing, never existed here on Libera.
06:57 PM veegee: puff, no you'll be immediately hunted down and executed. Completely inexcusable crime
06:58 PM puff: okay then.
06:58 PM veegee: puff lol ask whatever you want. If someone knows the answer, they'll respond
06:59 PM tiwake[m]: don't ask to ask, just ask
06:59 PM veegee: tiwake[m] YES THAT ^
06:59 PM tiwake[m]: https://derpicdn.net/img/view/2019/9/25/2153118.jpg
07:02 PM puff: Well, I've done maybe a dozen projects on a laser CNC, using corel and lasercut pro. I'm doing my first real project with a Forest Scientific router CNC. I drew a design in Inkscape and now I'm trying to figure out what next.
07:03 PM veegee: puff what are you using for your CAD/CAM?
07:03 PM veegee: puff Fusion360 can import SVG
07:04 PM puff: My makerspace has a vcarve pro license. I used Inkscape Save As... plain SVG, opened that in vcarve, it looks like the drawing, but won't let me interact with it. I used cloudconvert to convert the inkscape plain SVG export to DXF, opened that in vcarve, same thing.
07:04 PM veegee: It works a lot better than I expected
07:04 PM XXCoder: puff: maybe convert all objects to paths
07:04 PM puff: We do have Fusion360. I've never used it, but then again I've never used vcarve.
07:04 PM veegee: Use Fusion360
07:04 PM XXCoder: in know i ran into similiar trouble till i did that
07:04 PM veegee: and yes, convert everything into "paths"
07:05 PM veegee: when you export your SVG
07:05 PM puff: I'm trying to make this https://web.archive.org/web/20130828153440/http:/www.housebarra.com/projects/talschair/
07:05 PM veegee: Next step is to import your SVG into your CAD tool
07:05 PM puff: Basically a slot together plywood chair. I imported the image into inkscape, did trace bitmap, cleaned it up, etc.
07:05 PM XXCoder: honestly with size sensivity of that, i would import svg into freecad
07:05 PM XXCoder: use sketcher
07:05 PM puff: size sensitivity?
07:06 PM XXCoder: yeah for joints, slots etc
07:06 PM XXCoder: anyway sketcher you can set exact sizes etc
07:06 PM XXCoder: then export it back out as svg
07:06 PM veegee: XXCoder he already did the work to make it into a vector
07:07 PM XXCoder: I didnt say otherwise veegee .
07:07 PM puff: Hm, no sketcher install on the makerspace PC.
07:07 PM XXCoder: its in freecad
07:07 PM puff: Ah
07:07 PM XXCoder: its a 3d cad, but you can abuse it to make precision engineering vector files
07:08 PM XXCoder: i did bunch of times
07:08 PM XXCoder: i always wanted to rip sketcher out and turn it into program on its own
07:09 PM puff: Hm, okay, well I have freecade 0.8.14 installed but I've never done anything with it. I think I installed it to try to open some weird file format.
07:10 PM veegee: puff it's a nightmare to use
07:10 PM puff: Okay, so it's asking me if I want to open the DFX file as a drawing or SVG geometry.
07:10 PM XXCoder: 0.8??
07:10 PM XXCoder: thats ancient
07:10 PM XXCoder: current stable release is 0.19
07:11 PM XXCoder: .8 wow. earliest version I used was 0.13 which was crashy
07:11 PM veegee: But I do wonder why you don't just recreate it
07:11 PM puff: I'll see if there's a newer version in the repo.
07:11 PM puff: veegee: Recreate it in what?
07:11 PM veegee: That part looks pretty simple
07:12 PM veegee: Just in Fusion360
07:12 PM puff: ah.
07:12 PM veegee: Then you'll have full control of all paths
07:12 PM veegee: And you have the CAM tool integrated in there as well
07:12 PM puff: I'm not adamantly opposed to it, what's the learning curve like for 360?
07:13 PM puff: I'm just trying to figure out how to get cutting and try this out.
07:13 PM veegee: Very good
07:13 PM XXCoder: keep in mind licensing and cloud storage on fusion 360
07:13 PM veegee: Compared to freecad, it's so much better
07:13 PM veegee: and I hate admitting that because I hate closed source
07:13 PM puff: XXCoder: Yeah, that's a limitation, basically I'd have to do all my editing at my makerspace.
07:13 PM veegee: But freecad is just such a disappointment
07:13 PM veegee: puff how is that a limitation?
07:13 PM XXCoder: whats last version you used vee?
07:13 PM veegee: just make an account and you can save it and edit at home
07:13 PM puff: veegee: I couldn't do any editing at home?
07:13 PM veegee: ... what?
07:14 PM veegee: Of course you can
07:14 PM puff: veegee: I don't have a license, or can you get free licenses?
07:14 PM veegee: fusion360 is free
07:14 PM puff: Also, is it supported on linux?
07:14 PM puff: Aha.
07:14 PM XXCoder: its not free, but it has limited free mode yes
07:14 PM puff: What're the limitations?
07:14 PM enleth: veegee: you still need to apply for a "maker" license
07:14 PM XXCoder: they recently cut down on that pretty hard
07:14 PM enleth: it's free but there are hoops to be jumped
07:14 PM XXCoder: something like 10 files?
07:14 PM veegee: I know, but the free version is good enough for his purpose
07:14 PM XXCoder: thats why i recommand freecad
07:15 PM puff: I'm very much in favor of open source, but fusion seems to come up very often when I ask other folks at the makerspace about CNC.
07:15 PM norias: puff: fusion 360 is windows / mac
07:15 PM puff: Aha.
07:15 PM veegee: you can run it on linux with WINE
07:15 PM XXCoder: open soruce, free and not limited, not required network, not required account nor cloud
07:15 PM XXCoder: last time i tried, no, you cant
07:15 PM norias: veegee: really?
07:15 PM veegee: norias Yes
07:15 PM veegee: I have in the past
07:16 PM norias: I'm running win 10 in a VM for it
07:16 PM veegee: I haven't tried recently because my design workstation is Mac OS
07:16 PM veegee: a VM is just fine too
07:16 PM veegee: Keep in mind the CAM engine is the same as Inventor CAM
07:16 PM puff: After doing sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude install freecad, it now says 0.18.4.
07:16 PM XXCoder: last i tried, it was windows 7 in VM
07:16 PM veegee: so just pirate autodesk inventor, it's very easy
07:16 PM XXCoder: it needed more video card memory than vm could provide
07:17 PM veegee: like freecad is so bad, that I'd rather pirate autodesk
07:17 PM norias: puff: aren't you just doing 2d?
07:17 PM puff: norias: Yeah.
07:17 PM puff: Slot together plywood furniture.
07:17 PM XXCoder: tried to ask devs, they basically said "you will never need mroe than 128 mb vram"
07:17 PM XXCoder: dumb.
07:17 PM norias: Fusion seems like overkill
07:17 PM norias: Dxf2gcode?
07:18 PM XXCoder: puf needs to edit file
07:18 PM puff: Do I actually need to edit it?
07:18 PM norias: Autocadish stuff?
07:18 PM puff: Hang on, let me stick it on my web server.
07:18 PM norias: There's 2d free software dxf editors
07:21 PM veegee: why freecad didn't copy autodesk workflow is beyond me
07:21 PM veegee: so much wasted effort
07:22 PM norias: veegee: go do it
07:22 PM veegee: I know that is generally the response when you complain about open source software
07:22 PM veegee: I have a lot of open source contribution
07:23 PM veegee: But it really is wasted effort. Same problem with the million Linux distributions
07:23 PM XXCoder: honestly dont care, i like freecad
07:24 PM veegee: I really really want to like it
07:24 PM XXCoder: been using it fopr years now
07:24 PM XXCoder: even 0.13 days lol
07:26 PM roycroft: they still need to decide on an offical assembly workbench before it will be truly useful software
07:26 PM roycroft: official
07:27 PM roycroft: there are like a zillion other features it needs before it can really compete with the commercial stuff, but most of those features are for efficiency
07:28 PM roycroft: lack of an assmebly workbench is a show stopper
07:28 PM roycroft: it's a fatal functional flaw
07:28 PM norias: I haven't touched it in a while
07:28 PM norias: I think it tries to do too much poorly
07:28 PM roycroft: well my argument is that it doesn't quite try to do enough :)
07:29 PM norias: Do one thing well before you move to the next
07:29 PM roycroft: it's not very efficient, that's for sure
07:29 PM roycroft: but that's been slowly improving over time
07:29 PM norias: It just doesn't do things well
07:29 PM norias: Which is fine whatever
07:29 PM norias: I think cam is a mistake
07:29 PM XXCoder: nor did you try 0.18, 0.19 or .20?
07:29 PM roycroft: and it has hit 40 degrees
07:30 PM XXCoder: its a LOT better on those versions
07:30 PM * roycroft is on 0.19
07:30 PM roycroft: afiak they haven't picked an assembly workbench yet for 0.20, though
07:30 PM roycroft: so it still cannot be used for anything real
07:30 PM XXCoder: yeah 4 assxembly versions sigh
07:31 PM roycroft: none of which are official
07:31 PM roycroft: none of which can interoperate
07:31 PM XXCoder: one being changing system so much that it cant be addon and are compiled seperate version
07:31 PM roycroft: and no translation tools have been planned to migrate from any of them to whatever the official one ends up being
07:31 PM XXCoder: yeah good thing i dont use assembly
07:32 PM XXCoder: anyway yeah its why its still not 1.0
07:32 PM roycroft: in fact, they're pretty adamant that if you use an assembly workbench now, all your assembly drawings will be orphaned when they decide on an official one
07:32 PM XXCoder: 0.20 fixes one of BIG long running issue with freecad
07:32 PM roycroft: and from what i can tell it may be decades before they decide on an assembly workbench
07:32 PM norias: Freecad is two things combined I'm not excited about...
07:33 PM norias: Python and opencascade
07:33 PM XXCoder: it adds EDGE id so theres no breaking stuff with certain changes now
07:33 PM roycroft: it's inconceivable to me that the freecad developers think that assemblies are not a critical part of a parametric 3d design suite
07:34 PM XXCoder: roy i wouldnt say "they think its not critical"
07:34 PM XXCoder: its very very diffult thing to program for, and most cant
07:34 PM roycroft: the attitude seems to be "oh, yeah, some people like to make assemblies. they can play with some things if they want, but we're more concered about other issues"
07:34 PM XXCoder: and people who can lost interest and move on before its done
07:34 PM roycroft: yet there are several assembly workbenches that work rather well right now
07:34 PM XXCoder: thats why theres 4 versions :(
07:35 PM XXCoder: i heard assembly3 is best one so far
07:35 PM roycroft: all the freecad folks need to do is decide which one they want to officially integrate into the distro
07:35 PM roycroft: and lock that in
07:35 PM roycroft: they don't need to write their own from scratch
07:35 PM puff: Sorry, I went off and made a web page for this project: http://www.darksleep.com/puff/woodworking/cnc/talorgen/
07:35 PM roycroft: just pick the existing one that they think fits their vision of the project best, and declare that the official one
07:35 PM roycroft: and then promise to support it going forward
07:36 PM XXCoder: roy i dont know what its like in backend
07:36 PM XXCoder: maybe it breaks some of freecad stuff? maybe not?
07:36 PM XXCoder: maintainability is a concern
07:37 PM roycroft: i don't know the gory details either
07:37 PM XXCoder: dont get me wrong, i worry about assembly, i want to try it
07:37 PM roycroft: and i'm not saying it's trivial to decide what to do
07:37 PM XXCoder: but i want it to be well ingerated and ease of maintance high
07:37 PM roycroft: but there's been assembly workbenches for at least a decade
07:37 PM roycroft: and it's a really critical part of software that claims to do 3d design
07:38 PM roycroft: they've had a long, long, long, long time to figure out what would work best
07:38 PM XXCoder: it probably wont be 1.0 for decade
07:38 PM roycroft: they need to pick oen
07:38 PM roycroft: period
07:38 PM roycroft: they need to pick one
07:38 PM XXCoder: thing is they just changed major stuff on .20
07:38 PM XXCoder: like adding edge id
07:38 PM roycroft: if they don't like any of the existing ones, then they need to say why
07:38 PM XXCoder: that alone would make designs massively more stable
07:38 PM roycroft: and define an assembly api
07:39 PM roycroft: so that folks can adapt their assembly workbenches to the new, official api
07:39 PM roycroft: i should go back to sanding
07:39 PM roycroft: i haven't had a good freecad-lacking-assmblies rant for a while, so i've made up for lost time :)
07:40 PM XXCoder: :)
07:40 PM XXCoder: its understandable
07:40 PM XXCoder: its a hard issue
07:41 PM XXCoder: puff: anyway yeah what I'd do, which probably isnt best way, is just import SVG into freecad sketches then make sizes more firm
07:41 PM XXCoder: make it fully constranted, then save freecad file, then export sketch as svg again
07:41 PM XXCoder: then once youre done with all parts, make it at 10% scale using scrap wood, making sure that thickness is also scaled properly
07:42 PM XXCoder: or whatever scale thats good for what thin sheets of wood you have
07:45 PM _unreal_: SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET ok so the 24v psu I purchased for my vacuum setup. I have not installed it yet. I'm still using the 19v one
07:45 PM _unreal_: but I just tested the two boat LCD monitor control panels I have
07:45 PM _unreal_: one is worth $7k NEW. the other $3k new
07:46 PM _unreal_: both used so lets say 1k and 3k :)
07:46 PM _unreal_: both work
07:46 PM _unreal_: I just have to see if I can clear up some minor scratches on the bigger one's touch screen :S
07:47 PM _unreal_: minor but still will be a big negative
07:47 PM _unreal_: if I can buff the scratches out O.M.G.. :) pay day
07:47 PM snakedLX is now known as snaked
08:05 PM XXCoder: puff: https://inkscape.org/~arpruss/%E2%98%85openscad-cookie-cutter-file-output LOL
08:05 PM XXCoder: if sized correctly, can make cookie chair out of your project
08:15 PM roycroft: it's up to 33 degrees in my shop now
08:15 PM roycroft: so my office is my only option for not overheating
08:15 PM XXCoder: ow
08:15 PM XXCoder: my ac is barely keeping my room ok
08:15 PM XXCoder: 83f now
08:15 PM XXCoder: outside is 95f?
08:16 PM XXCoder: 97f now
08:16 PM XXCoder: ouch google is predicting 110f for monday
08:16 PM roycroft: i think i'll watch dave stanton on my computer today instead of on my tv
08:17 PM roycroft: i'm having cold food for dinner tonight, but part of that is shrimp, and i have to boil them briefly first
08:17 PM roycroft: so i'll have to turn on the cooker no matter what
08:17 PM roycroft: but only for a few minutes
08:21 PM pcw_home: /msg nickserv register blackbelly pcw@mesanet.com
08:22 PM pcw_home: well that want what I wanted to do...
08:22 PM pcw_home: interesting vise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeOgGt_oWU
08:24 PM XXCoder: ok ill accept your distraction lol
08:24 PM XXCoder: btw that is why I made custom command to identify. zero chance of acciently eposing password
08:24 PM roycroft: that vise looks lie it's alive
08:25 PM XXCoder: or email
08:25 PM XXCoder: yeah saw that video, amazing but dunno on usercase
08:25 PM XXCoder: probably why its not common
08:48 PM roycroft: it's probably rather fiddly, xxcoder
08:48 PM roycroft: useful, but high maintenance
08:48 PM roycroft: like a boat
08:49 PM XXCoder: yeah. i guess in cases where its useful, its REALLY useful
08:49 PM XXCoder: its supposed to have rotating base too but missing
08:49 PM XXCoder: with that, it'd be more useful because then you can align part to mill.
08:49 PM Tom_L: got a bazillion screws holding it together
08:51 PM XXCoder: many but not insanely many
08:51 PM Tom_L: more than a vise needs
08:56 PM XXCoder: I suppose, but i can envision a usercase for it
08:56 PM XXCoder: probably anyway
09:09 PM roycroft: it's down to 39 now
09:09 PM roycroft: so i survived the heat of the day
09:10 PM roycroft: tomorrow is another story altogether
09:11 PM XXCoder: then monday funday
09:14 PM roycroft: tomorrow is the hottest day here
09:14 PM XXCoder: oh
09:14 PM roycroft: monday in the puget sound region
09:14 PM roycroft: tuesday in british columbia
09:14 PM roycroft: our bubble will burst before yours!
09:19 PM n283: ugh
09:19 PM n283: is anyone familiar with ASME B59.2 ?
09:19 PM XXCoder: lol roy
09:21 PM Tom_L: n283, what about it?
09:22 PM n283: i can find no refference for it
09:22 PM n283: other than it being mentioned in some stuff about step-nc
09:22 PM Tom_L: it should be open source since it's NIST
09:25 PM Tom_L: https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/SP/nistspecialpublication810-2002.pdf
09:25 PM Tom_L: you might scan that
09:25 PM Tom_L: not sure...
09:26 PM Tom_L: https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/SP/nistspecialpublication810-1998.pdf
09:26 PM Tom_L: a previous one that also may mention it
09:27 PM n283: thanks
09:27 PM Tom_L: https://www.steptools.com/stds/stepnc/2012_stockholm/minutes.html
09:27 PM Tom_L: minutes from the stockholm meeting
09:28 PM Tom_L: contains an xml file mentioning it
09:29 PM Tom_L: https://themanufacturingconnection.com/category/operations-management/standards/page/14/
09:29 PM n283: yeah
09:29 PM n283: that stochholm thing is where i got it from
09:31 PM Tom_L: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270621808_Prediction_of_machining_accuracy_based_on_a_geometric_error_model_in_five-axis_peripheral_milling_process
09:31 PM Tom_L: must request full txt
09:32 PM Tom_L: i'll let you do your own homework from here
09:33 PM n283: ahhh, that last one is good.
09:33 PM n283: nicely done
09:33 PM Tom_L: https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=
09:33 PM Tom_L: dunnno if it's the same or not
09:34 PM Tom_L: you're not capn are you?
09:35 PM n283: capn?
09:36 PM Tom_L: someone else was researching this topic
09:37 PM Tom_L: seemed suspicious
09:37 PM n283: ha. no
09:37 PM n283: oh, i know who you mean
09:38 PM n283: no, he's messing with freecad
09:38 PM n283: i have no interest in that
09:39 PM Tom_L: if you dig long enough you should find the NIST software. NIST software is open source iirc
09:39 PM n283: yeah
09:39 PM n283: sometimes it's not out there, though
09:39 PM n283: but i've emailed folks and gotten it
09:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: nah freecad is just the GUI
09:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: KimK follows that, ask him when he's around during the week
09:52 PM n283: follows what?
09:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: that stuff ^^
09:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: math, 4+ axis CAM, precision machining etc
09:56 PM n283: ah, gotcha
09:56 PM Tom_L: was he helping Stuart on the cincinatti?
09:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he worked for or with him for a while
09:57 PM Tom_L: i knew that
09:57 PM Tom_L: just didn't know if the cincinatti was part of it
09:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i think Stuart worked on the big Cincinnati himself
09:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Kim cam in after but may have made additions or mods
10:00 PM Tom_L: i wonder if that thing is still in use
10:00 PM Tom_L: i know it was moved
10:10 PM roycroft: isn't "big Cincinnati" redundant?
10:10 PM * roycroft has never seen a not big cincinnati machine
10:16 PM Tom_L: roycroft, unfortunately i can't show you since stuart took down his YT
10:21 PM n283: CaptHindsight[m]: if freecad is just the gui, what is the geometry kernel?
10:22 PM n283: CaptHindsight[m]: still opencascade?
10:55 PM _unreal_: I tried playing with freecad and openscad etc.... gave up fast... way to much effort.
10:56 PM _unreal_: some of the complex designs I generate. I'd hate to see how much effort it would take to do them :S
10:57 PM Tom_L: i just hop into catia when the need arises
10:58 PM Tom_L: dammit! been trying to check the trueness of my mill since it's been a while
10:59 PM _unreal_: catia?
10:59 PM Tom_L: verifying X & Y were perpendicular and was getting nowhere
10:59 PM Tom_L: come to find out the vise edge i was using wasn't straight
11:00 PM Tom_L: after messin with it most of the day
11:00 PM _unreal_: lol
11:00 PM Tom_L: tried couple other edges and it's very close
11:00 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, just went to the catia web site and my anti virus popped up.
11:00 PM Tom_L: made by dassault systems, the same ones that have solidworks
11:00 PM _unreal_: https://www.3ds.com/products-services/catia/products/
11:01 PM Tom_L: only a higher end product
11:01 PM Tom_L: if you have to ask, you can't afford it
11:02 PM Tom_L: i took some classes for it as did my kids
11:03 PM Tom_L: the cloud version sucks but the one prior to that is nice
11:04 PM _unreal_: have to ask? heh I have just never heard of it
11:04 PM _unreal_: looks interesting
11:04 PM _unreal_: so annoyed my 3d printer has an issue
11:04 PM Tom_L: it's mostly for OEM
11:04 PM _unreal_: prints the first layer then goes nuts and runs into a wall'
11:04 PM Tom_L: most aircraft ppl here use it
11:05 PM _unreal_: I've only had it a few weeks :(
11:05 PM Tom_L: noise?
11:05 PM Tom_L: check the grounding
11:06 PM _unreal_: its an out of the box machine
11:06 PM _unreal_: so I have no idea
11:06 PM Tom_L: i'd be putting it back in the box right about now
11:06 PM _unreal_: and it prints the first layer of any design. then goes hay wire and runs into a wall
11:06 PM _unreal_: monday I'm calling
11:07 PM Tom_L: they had some at the vo'tech that were nice but i can't remember what brand
11:07 PM _unreal_: I spent all day today for nothing "fixing" my cad drawings thinking I was screwing something up. and kept reading reports and being told that if there are errors in the drawing it can do "just" what I am talking about.
11:07 PM _unreal_: I finally tried the default gcode that shipped wit the unit
11:07 PM _unreal_: and it did the same thing
11:08 PM _unreal_: that was the DING DING DING. somethings extra wrong here
11:08 PM _unreal_: I purchased an MPMD MONOPRICE Mini Delta
11:08 PM Tom_L: oh... dremel
11:08 PM _unreal_: endless storyies about how the psu that comes with it is under powered
11:08 PM Tom_L: i'm pretty sure they had several of those
11:08 PM _unreal_: dremel?
11:08 PM Tom_L: $$$ but they work
11:09 PM _unreal_: I'm talking about a 3d printer
11:09 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-Digilab-Winning-Printer-Resolution/dp/B073MRVXN5?tag=p00935-20&ascsubtag=04HUOVZzMQwnBom5fKlKOs5
11:09 PM Tom_L: so am i
11:09 PM _unreal_: 1800 wowzaaa
11:10 PM Tom_L: cloud monitoring etc
11:10 PM _unreal_: o,O
11:10 PM _unreal_: last thing I need is more monitoring
11:10 PM _unreal_: already bad enough with fusion
11:11 PM _unreal_: heh I dont even use fusion any more
11:11 PM Tom_L: they got money to burn... so they do
11:11 PM _unreal_: except for complex milling jobs
11:11 PM Tom_L: they are nice though
11:11 PM _unreal_: f'ers keep changing the layout of the UI on fusion360
11:11 PM _unreal_: I start to solve how to do stuff then they change it over and over
11:12 PM _unreal_: so I've been sticking to designspark
11:12 PM Tom_L: https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-3d-printers
11:12 PM _unreal_: has issues with closing faces though. if the design is too complex
11:13 PM XXCoder: prusa takes 2 spots. not surpised
11:14 PM Tom_L: they kinda started the craze
11:14 PM XXCoder: depends. you could say darwin started it
11:14 PM XXCoder: reprap darwin. i certainly first discovered 3d printing with darwin. though i didnt start till 2016 with elcrapo
11:15 PM XXCoder: stalled till 2020 with mp mini select
11:19 PM _unreal_: hum