#linuxcnc Logs
Jun 09 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:23 AM Deejay: moin
04:12 AM Tom_L: morning
09:35 AM roycroft: my county just permanently moved to the low risk category
09:35 AM roycroft: we finally met our vaccination goal
11:52 AM veegee: Hmmm I hope these guys really can custom make my slide way covers for a reasonable price https://www.ebay.com/itm/124082458294
12:00 PM veegee: Unfortunately the height of each member is too short, which makes the minimum length quite large
12:01 PM veegee: If they just make it a bit taller, they could significantly reduce the fully retracted length
12:09 PM Tom_L: have some metal ones made
12:09 PM roycroft: or make them yourself
12:10 PM Tom_L: i used neoprene on mine
12:11 PM roycroft: telescoping metal ones seem like a good idea, but i wonder if chips get caught up in them occasionally
12:11 PM roycroft: that wouldn't happen with a bellows type
12:11 PM roycroft: i guess one would have to install wipers with the telescoping type
12:12 PM Tom_L: most of them have wipers
12:13 PM Rab: Tom_L, just flat sheets of neoprene?
12:13 PM Tom_L: yes
12:13 PM roycroft: i've seen a number of machines with neoprene covers like that
12:13 PM roycroft: that's the simple, cheap, easy way to do it
12:13 PM Tom_L: best of all i got it free
12:13 PM Tom_L: from my friendly elevator supply guy
12:13 PM roycroft: and while it may not be aesthecially the best looking solution, it should be just as effective as the other ways
12:13 PM Tom_L: cutoffs they can't use
12:14 PM roycroft: even better
12:14 PM Tom_L: i got my garden hose from him too
12:14 PM Tom_L: buy it once for life
12:14 PM Tom_L: put machined ends on for me
12:15 PM roycroft: i don't have an elevator, so i've never established a relationship with an elevator supply guy
12:15 PM Tom_L: grain elevator
12:15 PM Rab: Yeah, I see those on knee mills where there's not a lot of travel. Not perfect for isolating ballscrews and linear slides, but it's nice to be able to wipe it off for cleaning. Bellows, I guess you use a vacuum.
12:15 PM Tom_L: we _are_ the breadbasket of the world ya know
12:15 PM roycroft: i buy my grain in 20kg sacks
12:15 PM roycroft: i don't need an elevator to haul them
12:16 PM Tom_L: we've got the biggest elevator in the world here i believe
12:16 PM Tom_L: one end of it blew up once
12:16 PM Tom_L: took off ~3-4 sections
12:16 PM roycroft: the biggest ball of string in the world is in your general vicinity as well, iirc
12:16 PM Tom_L: unless it's rotted away
12:17 PM roycroft: oh, that is in missouri
12:17 PM roycroft: i'm a bit off
12:17 PM roycroft: unless it's in western missouri
12:17 PM roycroft: the internet is not quite fully back yet, so it's slow checking up on things like that today
12:17 PM Tom_L: https://www.taproot.com/remembering-an-accident-debruce-grain/
12:18 PM Tom_L: notice the right half is missing the "hat"
12:18 PM roycroft: and it is in extreme western missouri
12:18 PM roycroft: northwest of kansas city, right next to the border
12:21 PM Tom_L: there were alot of highway attractions put up back when the highway system was built
12:21 PM roycroft: i remember hearing about that explosion
12:21 PM roycroft: it blowed up real good
12:22 PM Tom_L: it sounded like a bomb going off
12:22 PM Tom_L: and we're probably 10-15 mi from it
12:22 PM roycroft: are there temperature sensors on moving parts in larges silos now?
12:23 PM Tom_L: i dunno, they did things like adding oil to reduce the dust
12:23 PM roycroft: that would seem a logical safety requirement
12:23 PM Tom_L: i think it was caused by an overheated belt bearing or something
12:23 PM roycroft: yes
12:23 PM roycroft: seized bearing
12:24 PM roycroft: and if you install a thermal overload shut down circuit, you can avoid that kind of explosion
12:24 PM Tom_L: anyway, we've got quite a few elevators around here but that one is by far the biggest
12:25 PM roycroft: i've driven by some pretty large ones, but none nearly as large as that
12:25 PM Tom_L: i dunno if there's a pic there with the train sitting by it but it makes the train look like a toy
12:25 PM roycroft: actually maybe i have, but i don't remember
12:25 PM roycroft: we drove down i35 once on our way to mexico
12:26 PM roycroft: is it visible from the freeway?
12:26 PM Tom_L: i don't think so
12:26 PM Tom_L: more in a rural area
12:26 PM roycroft: then i haven't seen it
12:26 PM roycroft: it would have been in the mid '70s anyway
12:26 PM roycroft: so i probably wouldn't remember if i had
12:26 PM Tom_L: it was garvey back then
01:09 PM veegee: Tom_L the metal sheets are a great idea, do you have any resources for designs?
01:09 PM veegee: Or examples?
01:10 PM veegee: I really hate anything getting on my slide ways and even going to make a constant pressure oil system so it's like they're floating on a film of pressurized oil which gets filtered and recirculated
01:10 PM veegee: With 1µm hydraulic filters
01:11 PM veegee: same idea as automotive engine pressure lube systems but with much finer filters
01:33 PM Tom_L: https://dynatect.com/product/protective-covers/telescopic-steel-covers/
01:33 PM Tom_L: shapes 2/3 the way down
02:04 PM veegee: Tom_L oh I remember checking out their site. Insanely expensive, but good ideas
02:31 PM roycroft: another day
02:31 PM roycroft: another forced windows update while i need to dash out a quick cad file
02:32 PM roycroft: it almost makes me think about giving autodesk ~$5k for a current version of autocad for mac os
02:34 PM roycroft: when they unabandoned the mac os version years ago i inquired about migrating my license from windows to mac os and they essentially told me they'd be happy to, for the full cost of the mac os version
02:34 PM roycroft: this was shortly after i gave them $5k for the windows version, complaining at the time that they had abandoned mac os
02:36 PM * roycroft waits patiently for windows to finish doing its thing
02:36 PM Vq: We are/were running the LTSC version on all the machines in our quality test lab.
02:37 PM Vq: They are on the expensive side but we have long running tests (life-time, etc) so it was deemed to be worth it.
02:37 PM Vq: It has been an absolute mess. They upgrade when they want to anyway and things break.
02:38 PM roycroft: my only real problem is the forced updates
02:38 PM roycroft: and i've done the magic registry settings thing to disable them multiple times
02:38 PM roycroft: that works for a while, but then, one day, windows starts updating itself
02:39 PM roycroft: and it's usually like it is happening right now - i unsuspend a virtual machine, and as soon as it unsuspends i get the "do not turn off your computer - windows is doing updates" message
02:39 PM roycroft: before i log in or anything
02:41 PM Vq: We started a life-time test a little while ago. I used the pause updates for 35 days (it's just enough) feature and started the test.
02:42 PM Vq: One or two days later we had to take the entire system offline and make it powerless for a little while and when we powered it again the Windows LTSC box decided to upgrade.
02:42 PM Vq: Which took a good while, rebooted a couple of times, failed, rolled back the upgrades, etc.
02:42 PM Vq: We lost an entire day.
02:43 PM roycroft: that's the other thing
02:43 PM roycroft: if you don't upgrade regularly, which for virtual machines that are suspended 99+% of the time is the case, when it does decide to upgrade, it has a lot of catching up to do
02:43 PM roycroft: and it often requires multiple reboots
02:43 PM roycroft: windows is just not a good fit for virtual machines
02:44 PM roycroft: and it's too horrible to deal with to use as a primary os
02:44 PM Vq: I always make sure I upgrade these machines before I start the test. Bad luck this time I guess.
02:46 PM roycroft: like i said, for me it is typical that as soon as i unsuspend the vm it does its upgrades, before i even get a chance to log in
02:46 PM Vq: The only good thing is that I've been allowed to convert them to GNU/Linux.
02:47 PM Vq: I've made a NixOS conf and a pinned version of it that works with the test software. Replaced one box so far.
02:47 PM roycroft: i'm happy using mac os for my workstations
02:47 PM roycroft: it's unix with apps, and it works pretty well
02:47 PM roycroft: i use linux in the back room
02:47 PM roycroft: but i have a few apps that only run on windows, so i need to run that in vms
02:47 PM Vq: I've been running Debian on my main machine and NixOS on my laptop for a while but I converted to only NixOS last week.
02:48 PM Vq: OSX is not an alternative for me.
02:48 PM Rab: Does AutoCAD have to contact a license server? I have networking disabled for all my Windows VMs.
02:48 PM roycroft: i've been using mac os as my primary workstation os since os x first came out
02:49 PM roycroft: i think most folks use a license server these days, rab
02:49 PM roycroft: autodesk have a bunch of different licensing systems
02:49 PM roycroft: back when i bought my copy, the online license server did not exist
02:49 PM roycroft: that came with autocad 2010, and i have 2008
02:50 PM roycroft: there's a portable license utility with my version
02:50 PM roycroft: which is a pain in the butt to deal with, but i can deal with it
02:50 PM roycroft: basically, i have to run the utility on the licensed machine to export the license
02:50 PM roycroft: it generates a license file that i can then import onto the new machine
02:51 PM roycroft: the problem is that, unlike other vendors such as adobe who use a schema like that, i can't export it from the new machine and then import it back to the old machine
02:51 PM roycroft: it knows it was already exported from the old machine, and refuses
02:51 PM roycroft: i'm not sure if they still have that mechanism
02:52 PM roycroft: but they have a lan-based license server, and a cloud-based license server
02:52 PM roycroft: and you can still activate over the phone, if you need to install autocad somewhere that doesn't have internet access
02:53 PM drdoc: roycroft: I have a calendar (well, cron) email that tells me to start all the Win10 VMs
02:53 PM roycroft: i should probably do that
02:53 PM roycroft: and i'm also starting to be not so paranoid about my windows vms
02:53 PM drdoc: do it once a month or so and let them wail while I don't need them
02:53 PM roycroft: windows has tradionally been rather flaky when installing a bunch of large apps
02:54 PM roycroft: i.e. install one big app, then install a second one, and the first doesn't behave properly any more
02:54 PM drdoc: yeah
02:54 PM drdoc: it's getting better about that
02:54 PM roycroft: so my strategy for the past 20 or so years that i've been doing vms is to clone a "master" windows vm, install a single app on it, and run it that way
02:54 PM roycroft: if i need another windows app i make another clone of the master and install on that
02:55 PM drdoc: right
02:55 PM roycroft: windows 10 seems to actually work pretty well, though, so i'm changing my strategy slowlyl
02:55 PM roycroft: for example, i recently created a "cad software" vm
02:55 PM roycroft: and i
02:55 PM roycroft: have installed autocad on that
02:55 PM roycroft: i'm about to move solidworks to that vm
02:56 PM Vq: drdoc: Cadence is a software that doesn't play well with others on a Windows box.
02:56 PM roycroft: and when they're both working reliably, i can nuke the old autocad and solidworks vms
02:56 PM roycroft: i also have a number of cisco apps, almost all java-based, that have never played well together on windows vms
02:56 PM roycroft: and yes, they are java, the portable language, but they don't work at all on mac os or linux
02:56 PM roycroft: only on windows
02:56 PM Vq: You install it, it breaks something else and there is a high risk of interference with other programs.
02:57 PM roycroft: because not all javas are created equal
02:57 PM roycroft: anyway, i'm going to try to start combining them on a single windows 10 vm
02:57 PM drdoc: Vq: anyone who can afford Cadence can afford to give it a dedicated workstation
02:57 PM roycroft: thank goodness for snapshots - i can always roll back if/when something breaks
02:58 PM Vq: drdoc: Not if we're being stupid about it we can't.
02:59 PM drdoc: being stupid about it invalidates most anything
02:59 PM Vq: We're finally getting dedicated machines for COMSOL Multiphysics (FEM-software).
02:59 PM Vq: Those licenses are not cheap.
02:59 PM roycroft: the internet continues to kick my butt
03:00 PM roycroft: ever since yesterday's big outage it's been slow as molassas
03:00 PM roycroft: i'm wondering if the geo-caching servers that i talk to haven't been fixed yet
03:00 PM drdoc: roycroft: how fluent are you with old-ish Cisco hardware?
03:00 PM roycroft: i have piles of it :)
03:00 PM drdoc: lol
03:01 PM roycroft: the one aspect of that stuff i'm not fluent with is efficient disposal techniques
03:01 PM drdoc: I picked up a couple of POWER5 IBM boxes that came with a Cisco 6509
03:01 PM roycroft: oh
03:01 PM roycroft: i only have one catos machine here
03:01 PM roycroft: it's been years since i've dealt with catos
03:01 PM drdoc: supervisor module and 24-port gigE
03:02 PM roycroft: or do you have an ios supervisor blade?
03:02 PM drdoc: no idea
03:02 PM drdoc: it's been 10-12 since I messed with anything Cisco
03:02 PM roycroft: connect to the console and do a sh ver
03:02 PM roycroft: it will tell you what you have
03:02 PM drdoc: ok
03:02 PM roycroft: the 6509 is a nice machine
03:02 PM roycroft: well, it was
03:03 PM drdoc: first main question is does the supervisor require the storage cards?
03:03 PM roycroft: it's huge and will negate the need for central heating if you live in north dakota
03:03 PM drdoc: PCMCIA
03:03 PM roycroft: if you live in texas it will require additional ac
03:03 PM drdoc: yes
03:03 PM roycroft: iirc, there is a small amount of flash memory on the super blade
03:03 PM drdoc: and for me, it would be a virility replacement item
03:03 PM roycroft: but not enough to do much intersting
03:03 PM roycroft: and not enough to store redundant images/configs
03:03 PM drdoc: I don't care
03:04 PM roycroft: so you probably do need the pcmcia card
03:04 PM drdoc: I want to do basic diags and sell it
03:04 PM roycroft: however, you can only use a cisco one
03:04 PM roycroft: because cisco pcmcia is different to the rest of the universe's pcmcia
03:04 PM drdoc: I might *have* a couple of Cisco cards
03:04 PM drdoc: yes
03:04 PM roycroft: as in electrically different
03:04 PM drdoc: I know
03:05 PM roycroft: there's no way to get a non-cisco one to work
03:05 PM roycroft: ok
03:05 PM roycroft: if it has an ios supervisor blade it's worth a little money
03:05 PM drdoc: hold on a sec
03:05 PM roycroft: if it's just catos you might not have to pay too much to have someone take it away
03:08 PM veegee: Any harm in upgrading my lathe's motor from 3hp to something bigger and faster?
03:09 PM veegee: The surface speed is critical for that mirror like surface finish, but it becomes impossible below a certain diameter
03:09 PM veegee: I have a pretty standard upper RPM limit of 2,300 RPM
03:09 PM roycroft: those motors are usually paired fairly closely to the machine
03:09 PM veegee: I have several motors lying around I can drop in and replace
03:09 PM roycroft: i.e. more power is usually not necessary nor helpful
03:10 PM veegee: don't care for _power_, need the speed
03:10 PM roycroft: faster can be useful for small diameter turning
03:10 PM veegee: yeah that's the entire reason for this
03:10 PM veegee: But is it bad for the spindle?
03:10 PM roycroft: but if you get a faster motor and use the gearbox to change speeds, you severely limit the capacity of parts you can turn
03:10 PM veegee: It has a VFD
03:10 PM roycroft: i.e. you will not be able to go slow enough for large parts
03:10 PM roycroft: if it has a vfd then you're probably ok
03:10 PM veegee: I can go down to 1 RPM if I want
03:11 PM veegee: My only concern is for the spindle and if high RPM will hurt the bearings or whatever
03:11 PM roycroft: if you're at 2300rpm now, and you want to go to 4000rpm, you're probably fine
03:11 PM veegee: roycroft sounds good, thanks
03:11 PM roycroft: if you want to go to 7500rpm, check the specs for your bearings
03:11 PM roycroft: and consider upgrading them
03:12 PM roycroft: if you do run something faster, don't run at high speeds for long periods of time, at least not at first
03:12 PM roycroft: and check to see if the bearings get hot
03:12 PM veegee: Yeah that's the plan
03:15 PM drdoc: roycroft: sorry, had to help catch a cat
03:15 PM drdoc: "WS-SUP720-3BXL supports Cisco IOS 12.2(17b)SXB and later"
03:15 PM roycroft: ok, great
03:15 PM roycroft: it's an ios blade
03:15 PM roycroft: so you won't have to pay someone to haul it away
03:16 PM veegee: drdoc here's the important question: your cat? friend's cat? alley cat?
03:17 PM drdoc: veegee: our cat
03:17 PM drdoc: sweetest girl in the world till it's time to go to the vet
03:18 PM drdoc: I literally put on welding sleeves & gloves
03:20 PM veegee: Clip the nails
03:21 PM veegee: I want to bring my fluffy baby to the workshop, but I'm worried about metal chips getting stuck in the paws
03:21 PM drdoc: her nails are clips, but not her teeth
03:21 PM drdoc: she panics and goes crazy
03:22 PM roycroft: kitty booties
03:32 PM roycroft: oh for fuck's sake
03:32 PM roycroft: windows seemed to be all finished with its upgrade crap, so i fired up autocad
03:33 PM drdoc: but nooooo
03:33 PM roycroft: i made a few changes to a drawing, but before i could save them it started upgrading again
03:33 PM roycroft: i think i need to disable the network adapter when it starts rebooting the nex time
03:34 PM roycroft: and hopefully it won't have already downloaded a bunch of updates that it will force on me
03:35 PM roycroft: this is on my new "cad vm" where i intend to install all my windows-based cad tools
03:35 PM roycroft: and i just cloned that vm from the master a couple or three weeks ago, and told windows to have its way with updates before i ever installed autocad
03:36 PM roycroft: so it's not like the vms that have sat around for months, suspended, just waiting with bated breath to call home and update themselves
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