#linuxcnc Logs

Jun 07 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:05 AM Deejay: moin
01:17 AM mrec: W1N9Zr0: thanks!
01:17 AM mrec: roycroft: surely but a 3mm endmill is a 3mm endmill and the machine only seems to be one factor the endmill certainly is weaker than the entire machine
01:18 AM mrec: next topic would be how to use a 0.5mm endmill :-) I still have 3 here after breaking the first one yesterday.
01:18 AM mrec: it seems to work though I was just testing various feed rates yesterday
01:18 AM mrec: I know what not to use in terms of feed rate at least.
01:27 AM W1N9Zr0: https://www.harveytool.com/resources/speeds-feeds#miniature_end_mills
01:37 AM roycroft: sure
01:38 AM roycroft: now teach your cam software what you have learned about your machine
04:29 AM Tom_L: mrec, 80% diameter on depth 20% diameter for width is the " new thang "
04:29 AM Tom_L: as a guideline
04:29 AM Tom_L: instead of wider shallower cuts
04:29 AM Tom_L: supposedly more efficient
09:25 AM drdoc: Tom_L: how many spring passes, though? ;^)
11:18 AM veegee: So a while ago I bought some cheap chinese machine skates
11:18 AM veegee: I should have known better
11:18 AM veegee: The rollers were coated with some kind of plastic that forms a flat spot if you look at it funny
11:18 AM veegee: which then makes it impossible to move the machine
11:19 AM veegee: Anyway, tried to fix it by turning the rollers on the lathe. Whatever plastic is on there is super rubbery and comes off in a single limp stretchy chip
11:20 AM veegee: steep positive rake HSS obviously; carbide would have made a mess
11:21 AM veegee: depth of cut can be the entire thickness of the plastic layer. That was fun
11:22 AM veegee: At least they used cast iron for the metal on the roller itself. The bearings are trash though
11:24 AM roycroft: a half dozen pieces of 1" steel round bar would be great for moving machines
11:25 AM roycroft: or 25mm steel round bar, if that's what is common where you are
11:26 AM roycroft: a toe jack and a nice, long, sturdy pry bar would also be useful
11:26 AM veegee: I have these: https://www.vestil.com/images/i1200/VHMS-30_A.jpg
11:26 AM veegee: Expensive, but _totally_ worth it
11:26 AM veegee: They're essentially round bar that picks itself up
11:27 AM veegee: No bearings needed
11:27 AM veegee: Also they look like battle tanks so you can be 6 years old again and sit on the ground and play with them
11:27 AM veegee: They weigh like 40kg each though
11:30 AM roycroft: i think you're overengineering your machine moves, unless you're moving things around every day
11:31 AM roycroft: round bar rollers work fine, are relatively cheap, and are used in machine shops all over the world to move machines
11:41 AM Rab: I have seen frail old men move very heavy equipment with pipes and a rock bar, it's certainly effective. But if the machine has feet then I would prefer skates, otherwise you have to contrive some pretty stiff skids.
11:44 AM roycroft: it all depends on how often you move machines around
11:44 AM roycroft: if you move a machine once/year, pipe/rod and a big lever are fine, imo
11:44 AM roycroft: if you do it once/month, something a bit more sophisticated may be in order
11:45 AM veegee: About once a month
11:45 AM veegee: it was worth it for me
11:45 AM veegee: those things rotate and make it easy to steer
11:45 AM Rab: I have an antique press that stands on cast iron legs, with a very high center of gravity. I have some low-profile skates partway finished. There is no good way to secure skids to the feet, and I think even 4x4s might crack...while raising the center of gravity too high for safety.
11:45 AM roycroft: if you do it every day, unless you're a machine dealer/flipper, something is wrong with you :)
11:45 AM veegee: I have machines that weigh over 5,000 kg
11:49 AM veegee: LOLLL JT https://forum.linuxcnc.org/images/comprofiler/405_583defae9de01.jpg
11:49 AM veegee: Was not expecting that
11:50 AM roycroft: what?
11:50 AM roycroft: that's just a pic of jt on a motorcycle
11:50 AM Rab: No chickens in frame?
11:51 AM roycroft: it's probably from his pre-chicken days
11:51 AM roycroft: iirc chickens have only been a thing for him for the past 2-3 years or so
11:52 AM roycroft: or maybe he's been a closet chicken raiser for years, and only came out a couple or three years ago
12:08 PM * drdoc is an idiot
12:09 PM drdoc: We have a sudden mouse & rat problem in the garage, so I ordered some traps.
12:10 PM drdoc: they came in, I set one of the small ones to test, as I've never used the new ones with plastic bait plate
12:11 PM drdoc: then stuck my finger in there and triggered it, apparently believing that I'm quick enough to get my finger out of the way
12:11 PM drdoc: Of course, I am not.
12:11 PM drdoc: Now I gotta drill a hole in that nail
12:22 PM roycroft: you need a big cat
12:29 PM drdoc: I have a big cat
12:30 PM drdoc: one of the biggest domestics I've ever seen
12:30 PM drdoc: He couldn't care less
12:41 PM Tom_L: drdoc, i did actually try it and it's not as bad as you might think
12:41 PM Tom_L: it's a different way of thinking for sure but i honestly think it's more efficient
12:42 PM Tom_L: the same material removal cut at a higher rate with lower hp
12:45 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trzO8H6tKW8
12:45 PM Tom_L: there's one short test cut i did
12:46 PM Tom_L: using the 80 20 cut ratio
12:46 PM Tom_L: approx
12:47 PM Tom_L: you're just using more of the cutter instead of wasting the flute length and taking a lighter side cut
12:52 PM veegee: Get humane traps and keep them as pets, that's what I do
12:53 PM veegee: My cat also brings them to me (alive)
12:53 PM Tom_L: this from the one that was being violent toward wildlife of recent :)
12:54 PM veegee: No, I defend myself against aggressors, simple as that
12:54 PM veegee: If a goose attacks me, I will put it in its place, that's all
12:54 PM Tom_L: heh
12:54 PM veegee: If a wasp attacks me and I find its nest nearby, I will destroy it
12:54 PM Tom_L: we got plenty of those around here
12:54 PM veegee: But anything that is not aggressive towards me will not see any harm from me
12:54 PM Tom_L: and i thought they were CANADIAN geese!
12:55 PM Tom_L: go home!
12:55 PM veegee: Mice and rats are also easily domesticated
12:56 PM veegee: You just have to keep mice, rats, and cats separate. Cats will attack either, rats will kill mice on sight
01:08 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:14 PM roycroft: my guests and myself were enjoying ourselves in the living room when i heard the sound of gushing water in the kitchen
01:15 PM roycroft: i went out to investigate, and found that the floor was flooded
01:15 PM roycroft: i quickly shut off the main water supply, sent everybody home, then did further investigation
01:15 PM roycroft: it turned out that a rat had chewed through the water supply hose to my dishwasher
01:15 PM roycroft: that hose was wrapped in stainless steel braid
01:16 PM roycroft: i was actually rather impressed at the ability of a rat to chew through stainless steel
01:16 PM roycroft: that was a cheap and easy fix
01:16 PM andypugh: Was it a Stainless Steel Rat? (cf Harry Harrison)
01:16 PM roycroft: then a few years later the brakes did not work on my van after it had sat over the winter
01:16 PM roycroft: i never saw the rat
01:17 PM roycroft: just the droppings and the hole in the wall from which it had emerged
01:17 PM roycroft: anyway
01:17 PM roycroft: the repair bill for the brake lines the rat(s) had chewed through, which were also wrapped with ss braid, was over $200
01:18 PM roycroft: in the kitchen, i ended up instaling some hardware cloth inside the wall that the rad had chewed through before repairing the hole
01:18 PM roycroft: and i've seen no sign of rats there ever since
01:19 PM roycroft: i also dropped some rat poison inside the wall before sealing it up
01:30 PM veegee: roycroft does your lathe have a cross slide lock?
01:30 PM veegee: Or carriage lock
01:36 PM roycroft: carriage lock
01:36 PM roycroft: it would be easy to add a cross slide lock
01:37 PM roycroft: or tighten one of the cross slide gib adjust screws, when necessary
01:43 PM veegee: roycroft yeah mine doesn't have any locks which is really weird because there's obviously going to be backlash. I'm going to add a cross slide lock and figure out a way to make a carriage lock
01:44 PM roycroft: it's usually pretty easy to add a carriage lock
01:44 PM roycroft: and you'll use the carriage lock 99% more often than the cross slide lock, so i'd focus on that first
01:45 PM roycroft: plus, as i said, it's usually really easy to just tighten a gib adjust screw when you really need to lock the cross slide
01:46 PM veegee: roycroft I'm going to get a collet set for it. 5C or ER?
01:47 PM roycroft: that's not a good question to ask me, as i'm still trying to decided which would be best for my lathe, myself
01:47 PM veegee: ER have slits on the front and back but people are saying that's a bad thing when trying to grab just a short part of the workpiece
01:47 PM roycroft: i'm leaning towards er, as they're a little more forgiving, but 5c is pretty standard on lathes
01:48 PM veegee: "If you can afford it, go for conventional split collets instead of ERs for lathe work. I find using ER collets on a lathe to be a royal PITA compared to conventional split collets (e.g., 5C). ERs are slow and clumsy to operate, they lack feel, you can't grab short stuff, you can't get the tool close enough to the collet face (it's recessed into the nut a little), and they can mark finished workpieces. I
01:48 PM veegee: have an ER16 chuck with a straight shank that I grab in a 5C, for those times when I don't have the right size 5C, such as when working on some sizes of machine screws. I use it as little as possible."
01:49 PM veegee: "slow and clumsy to operate" needs some explanation
01:49 PM roycroft: i'll say that i understand all of those criticisms of er collets
01:49 PM roycroft: but i have never used 5c
01:49 PM roycroft: er collets fit on a collar
01:50 PM roycroft: you have to completely remove the collar from the chuck to change collets
01:50 PM roycroft: or clean collets
01:50 PM roycroft: 5c are held in by a drawbar on the lathe, usually
01:50 PM roycroft: it's a quick operation to loosen them or remove them
01:51 PM roycroft: another advantage of 5c collets is that you can get "blank" collets and machine them to fit the part you need to hold
01:51 PM roycroft: such as a square or rectangular bar
01:51 PM roycroft: or maybe a 5-sided bar
01:52 PM roycroft: most machinists who use 5c colletc keep at least one the blanks on-hand, as an "emergency" collet
01:52 PM roycroft: even if your part is round, if you don't have the correct size collet for it you can bore out the emergency collet and use it in a pinch
01:54 PM roycroft: with an er collet you can get around the short piece problem by inserting another short piece of the same material in the back of the collet
01:54 PM roycroft: that can be a bit fiddly, but it would work fine
01:54 PM roycroft: you'll still have some clearance issues with the collar, though
01:54 PM veegee: Sounds like I'm going 5C
01:55 PM roycroft: my thinking is that 5c is probably better for the lathe, for the most part
01:55 PM veegee: The blank collet sold me
01:55 PM roycroft: but it's also a bigger investment
01:55 PM roycroft: especially if one already has some er collets for other machines
01:56 PM veegee: Not too bad from what I'm seeing, especially used
01:56 PM roycroft: i'm sure others here will have better insights into 5c collets, but i think i have a fairly good understanding of the advantages and disadvantages of each type
01:56 PM roycroft: well, er collets have a greater gripping range than 5c, so you would need fewer collets to complete a "set"
01:57 PM roycroft: you can get 5c collet blocks for other uses as well
01:57 PM veegee: yeah that's the plan
01:57 PM roycroft: you can get a square and hexagonal one, that you can use in the mill vise
01:58 PM veegee: yup that's one of my requirements
01:58 PM roycroft: and some indexing heads directly accept 5c collets
01:59 PM roycroft: so that's my non-answer on the subject :)
02:00 PM veegee: roycroft that's the perfect answer, exactly what I was looking for, thanks!
02:02 PM roycroft: i don't like to tell people what to do, because i'm not them
02:02 PM roycroft: i prefer just giving them information and telling them what i would do, and why
02:12 PM roycroft: well, the new saw shop called - my blade is ready
02:12 PM roycroft: i hope they did not destroy it like the last shop did
02:31 PM veegee: I know why the 4 jaw chuck is vibrating - some idiot drilled a hole in the back to try to balance it but balanced it wrong
02:31 PM veegee: So I just have to balance it properly
02:39 PM veegee: https://accusizetools.com/products/5c-lathe-chucks-3-jaw-self-centering-scroll?variant=35245863633050
02:40 PM veegee: lol 3 jaw chuck that fits in a 5C holder
02:40 PM veegee: perfect
02:40 PM veegee: there's your reusable "emergency" collet
03:49 PM roycroft: my saw blade cuts brilliantly
03:49 PM roycroft: i'm happy with the new saw shop
03:49 PM roycroft: i'll be bringing them some more saw blades soon
03:51 PM roycroft: i needed a 0.080" wide, dead flat kerf
03:51 PM roycroft: i got a 0.080" wide, dead flat kerf
03:58 PM veegee: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-other-business-industrial/london/leblond-makino-fnc40-a16-16-x-24-vertical-cnc-project/1559145924
03:58 PM veegee: Whoah is this a steal or what
03:59 PM veegee: Depending on what he did (hopefully he didn't wreck it), that's an amazing price
03:59 PM Tom_L: all the collets we ran on the multi spindle were front split only
04:00 PM veegee: "disassembled for a refit project" what does that mean? What would you refit a CNC mill with?
04:00 PM Tom_L: dunno what series they were
04:00 PM Tom_L: BIG
04:19 PM roycroft: that's almost melt price, veegee
04:24 PM veegee: I just called the guy
04:24 PM veegee: He just stripped out the electronics to modernize it
04:25 PM veegee: Everything else is in place and it was running before he removed the motherboard. It can still be reassembled
04:25 PM veegee: He said it has 1.1kW servos, weighs 8,000 lbs, has analog servo drives
04:25 PM veegee: Only pain in the ass is he has a rural property and I have to rent a forklift to load it onto the trailer
04:27 PM veegee: He bought if rom a machine shop. The monitor broke and the machine shop had the monitor replaced but then the owner retired so it wasn't used again after that. So it should be fine
04:29 PM veegee: One of them mesa analog servo interfaces should be a drop in fit. Looks like everything is standard. CAT40 spindle taper
04:30 PM Tom_L: meh i wouldn't get it. it's not CAT50
04:31 PM veegee: Tom_L why is that such a big deal?
04:32 PM veegee: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-other-business-industrial/london/first-cnc-bed-mill/1565926098 Here's another one for $800
04:47 PM Tom_L: it was a joke
04:47 PM Tom_L: 50 will carry more load though
05:11 PM veegee: The guy just messaged me and told me he was planning to use linuxcnc and has mesa cards for it
05:14 PM Tom_L: haha
05:15 PM Rab: Is that included in the $1,500?
05:22 PM roycroft: i think you should get it, veegee
05:22 PM roycroft: if for no other reason, it will make a good test load for your machine moving skates
05:22 PM veegee: THe guy just said I can have the mesa boards if I buy the machine
05:23 PM roycroft: well there you go
05:23 PM roycroft: that knocks a couple or three hundred dollars off the cost
05:23 PM veegee: I already tested the machine skates a while ago with machines way heavier than that
05:23 PM roycroft: you could keep the boards, sell the rest for scrap, and maybe make a small profit
05:24 PM Tom_L: or put it on your list of retrofits
05:24 PM veegee: The machine is in working condition
05:24 PM veegee: It just needs to be plugged in
05:24 PM Tom_L: then plug it in and use it
05:24 PM veegee: Yeah that's the plan
05:24 PM veegee: I told him consider it sold
05:25 PM Tom_L: with the mesa cards of course
05:25 PM Tom_L: he would likely have no use for them now anyway
05:25 PM veegee: Yeah, he said he'll throw in the cards for free if I buy the machine
05:25 PM Rab: Seems like a screaming deal to me, with the caveat that it's pretty elderly. Looks clean though.
05:26 PM veegee: Yeah he started a machining business and apparently it took off so he had to buy working machines and had no time to continue the project
05:26 PM Tom_L: oo i just saw the pics
05:27 PM Tom_L: makino are good machines faik
05:27 PM veegee: It's 8,000 lbs which is decent for that size. Should be rigid
05:27 PM veegee: Also automatic tool changer is nice
05:30 PM Tom_L: even a better bonus if he has the books for it
05:31 PM veegee: He does
05:31 PM veegee: He sent me some of the specs from the manual
05:32 PM veegee: funniest part I saw was "Tool selection system: Random" lol
05:33 PM veegee: I'm sure it means random access to any tool as in Random Access Memory, but the first thought was it choses the next tool randomly
05:34 PM veegee: Much better picture: https://images2.imgbox.com/12/bf/q6e21qbl_o.jpg
05:35 PM veegee: Damn, it does look really clean
05:35 PM veegee: Not sure where the other half of the table is though
05:36 PM veegee: He got a 5i25 + 7i77, totally worth it
05:45 PM Rab: Seems like an interesting guy, from the sense of organization displayed in that photo.
05:46 PM veegee: The oscilloscope is the only thing I needed to see to know that he knows what he's doing
05:46 PM Rab: Bud Light, check. Canned air, check. Tape measures (2), check. Pastel sunglasses, check.
05:46 PM veegee: And the 2 manuals for the machine beside the scope
05:46 PM Tom_L: 2 piece table??
05:51 PM veegee: No idea, but I'm going to be riding there this week to see it in person and plan a strategy to transport it
05:52 PM Tom_L: damn, you get all this stuff in your shop i might consider moving next door
05:54 PM veegee: Still missing a surface grinder and cylindrical grinder and tool and cutter grinder
06:03 PM veegee: "Aside from its ineffectiveness, there are many other reasons why you shouldn't use kerosene in your parts washer" lol wtf this guy smoking
06:04 PM veegee: "ineffective"? It's better than _any_ water based/polar solvent for cleaning grease and non-polar substances
06:05 PM veegee: I've just been recirculating it through an automotive oil filter with an air diaphragm pump and it's cheap and reusable
07:55 PM veegee: roycroft what spindle mount does your lathe have? Mine is D1-4 camlock. Not sure what the norm is
07:56 PM roycroft: i don't want to talk about it
07:57 PM roycroft: not only is it a threaded mount, it's a mongrel - metric diameter and us customary thread pitch
07:57 PM roycroft: d1-4 is quite common on a lathe of your size
07:59 PM Tom_L: "custom"
07:59 PM roycroft: my lathe doesn't even have a lock for the chuck, so i can't run the machine backwards unless i'm using a live center in the tailstock to keep the chuck from spinning off
08:00 PM roycroft: i've been thinking for a while about getting a different lathe
08:00 PM roycroft: it all depends on how much lathe work i end up doing - i've not done a lot since i got it, but i have some product ideas that would require considerable time on the lathe
08:02 PM veegee: I'm contemplating getting a D1-4 chuck or a plain back chuck + D1-4 backplate
08:05 PM veegee: As for your lathe, you can definitely machine a back plate or some kind of adapter. I don't know why they make odd mounting mechanisms like that. The fewer the variations, the better
08:06 PM veegee: Even D1-3 D1-4 D1-5 D1-6, You can probably just get away with D1-3, 6, 8 or something like that
09:08 PM roycroft: threaded spindles were commonplace on lathes the size of mine back in the '80s, when mine was made
09:08 PM roycroft: and still are fairly common
09:08 PM roycroft: yours is the smallest size where camlock mounts are common
09:08 PM roycroft: your lathe is just a bit larger than mine
09:09 PM roycroft: but it's in a whole different class of lathe
10:55 PM flyback: speaking of crazy spindles and lathes
10:55 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpt-GgRejNc
10:55 PM flyback: how did he not shred his bearings spinning that mass
11:08 PM veegee: flyback speaking of out of balance mass, I balanced my 4 jaw chuck with magnets
11:08 PM flyback: neat
11:08 PM veegee: now it runs smooth without vibrating the whole machine
11:09 PM flyback: good job
11:10 PM veegee: as an Indian, I have to say that India has the ugliest fucking trucks in the world
11:10 PM veegee: and the way they do things is so ass backwards
11:10 PM veegee: Rolling that truck axle onto a shitty old cart like amateurs
11:11 PM veegee: wearing sandals lol
11:12 PM flyback: oh so you are an indian-canadian?
11:12 PM flyback: engineirNUCK
11:12 PM veegee: Yes
11:12 PM flyback: :P
11:12 PM veegee: Oh look at that he found a chain hoist. Didn't think they knew such things existed
11:13 PM flyback: yeah some of their stuff did seem a little stupid
11:13 PM veegee: That jib crane is the sketchiest thing I've seen
11:13 PM flyback: I couldn't believe the guys bare handed rebuilding lead acid batteries
11:14 PM veegee: I can. It doesn't surprise me at all
11:15 PM flyback: I mean that acid smarts
11:15 PM flyback: I got cooked taking apart a ups battery module
11:15 PM flyback: after the stupid thing detonated 19 of 20 packs inside
11:15 PM flyback: even the screws were acidic
11:16 PM veegee: They choose to be retards and it's embarrassing
11:17 PM veegee: His HSS(?) tool is super dull
11:17 PM flyback: yeah I saw
11:17 PM flyback: he had to keep regrinding it
11:17 PM veegee: oh he found the bench grinder
11:18 PM veegee: I could see it was dull before he even mounted it
11:18 PM flyback: I cringed when they were hamming on the piece when it's still in the lathee
11:18 PM flyback: do you not care about your lathe bearings?
11:18 PM veegee: LOL I just saw that
11:18 PM veegee: wtf
11:19 PM flyback: for god sake
11:19 PM flyback: a piece of wood
11:19 PM flyback: $0
11:19 PM flyback: under it
11:19 PM veegee: He's taken a sledge hammer to a mounted workpiece
11:19 PM veegee: And he rests his hardened wrench on the slide ways lol
11:20 PM veegee: They're hammering the workpiece now on the lathe bed as if it were a work table or vise
11:21 PM veegee: and people ask me why I'm racist towards my own race
11:21 PM veegee: This. This is why
11:21 PM flyback: heh
11:22 PM flyback: yeah I was screaming "this lathe is your fucking meal ticket and you do that?"
11:22 PM veegee: Yup, I knew he was going to stick weld it right on the lathe
11:23 PM veegee: As soon as I saw him fit the pieces together, I knew he was going to do it
11:23 PM veegee: Of course he doesn't have a welding helmet. You can bet your ass he's not using the right electrode for that case either (cast iron?)
11:24 PM flyback: he'll pay the price for that one
11:24 PM veegee: No tack welds either, he just goes straight for it, as if warping doesn't matter for an axle
11:25 PM veegee: You can see the handle on the tailstock jumping with every hammer blow
11:25 PM flyback: yeah just put a old log under it ffs
11:25 PM veegee: The top comment: "I can only say that these gentlemen do an outstanding job with used parts, basic machinery and a ton of good old fashioned, practical engineering, it really is a credit to them."
11:26 PM veegee: Master troll or doesn't know how to do sarcasm properly
11:27 PM veegee: LOL at the guy right beside him just looking away when he starts welding
11:28 PM veegee: I forgot to cover my arms just above the elbow the other day and freaked out because of the mild sunburn I got from TIG welding
11:28 PM flyback: the driveshaft one isn't much better
11:30 PM veegee: are they seriously eyeballing for straightness on the press?
11:32 PM veegee: They're really a fan of the "a sledgehammer is the only tool you need" philosophy
11:33 PM flyback: https://youtu.be/uqzWk_fIxEc?t=69
11:33 PM flyback: another channel did the same thing
11:35 PM flyback: man look at the cracks
11:35 PM veegee: Of course he painted his toolpost handle just like they paint their ugly fucking trucks
11:36 PM veegee: I just don't understand that paint job. Do they really think it looks good?
11:36 PM flyback: my ass doesn't have cracks that big
11:36 PM veegee: At least this guy covered the slide way when using the toolpost mounted grinder
11:36 PM flyback: that includes the fissures
11:37 PM veegee: Yeah that's a throwaway part
11:38 PM veegee: no eye protection, obviously
11:39 PM flyback: I mean it's split wtf