Jun 01 2021
12:28 AM veegee: Tom_L ready for the hard truth?
12:35 AM veegee: M35 is giving me the best surface finish on mild steel. I tried a whole bunch of different carbide inserts with different nose radii, etc.
12:35 AM veegee: A custom ground M35 with a sharp edge is giving me consistently excellent surface finish across a wide range of feeds and speeds
12:35 AM veegee: Carbide inserts are giving me good results, but it quickly drops off to mediocre at lower speeds. interestingly enough, a sharper nose radius on carbide inserts is giving better surface finish. The large radius WNMG insert is giving me considerable chatter for some reason
12:35 AM veegee: The lathe has more than enough power and speed for these inserts. It looks like mild steel just doesn't like a large contact surface on carbide
01:08 AM Deejay: moin
01:58 AM drdoc: veegee: check idealprec.com's Used/Demo stock for micrometers
02:00 AM drdoc: if you offered me a free Amazon Mitu or the same model Ideal refurb, I'd probably choose the refurb
02:48 AM Loetmichel: *MUHAHAHA* Projectmanager just to a coworker: "How long do you need for that repair?" CW:"30 min tops" PM:"Ok, lets say an hour" ... two hours later he is still working :D
03:17 AM drdoc: Loetmichel: I always say "A week, at least."
03:18 AM drdoc: supervisor screams, claims it should take 20 minutes...
03:19 AM drdoc: I don't do deadlines on repairs. A sane person with experience knows that it's not possible.
04:37 AM Loetmichel: hehe, just went out for a smoke.. coworker mentioned that putting my phone back into the belt holster after reading looks like the original Robocop stowing his gun with a twirl :D
04:46 AM Tom_L: morning
06:11 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:00 AM JT-Cave: usps international has not shipped anything since may 9th
08:04 AM veegee: Loetmichel_ drdoc yeah if it's one thing I've learned, double time estimates lol
08:06 AM veegee: Tom_L finally got excellent surface finish with carbide
08:06 AM veegee: it wants to run _really_ fast
08:07 AM veegee: Tom_L https://www.gadgetbuilder.com/VerticalShearBit.html
08:07 AM veegee: "if speed and feed are sufficient then the shear point is such that the chip flows over the top edge without touching and makes contact some distance back from the edge. Most chip breakers have a flat area preceding them where the chip should not touch the flat but should contact in the depressed area forming the chip breaker"
08:09 AM veegee: I've been trying to understand the physics of what's going on and I think he's nailed it. There's a minimum feed and a minimum speed. If you meet that requirement, looks like the edge doesn't wear at all
08:10 AM veegee: Also explains why HSS with positive rake gives excellent surface finish at very low speeds and feeds as long as you keep your edge sharp
08:11 AM veegee: So I don't think the coating matters _too_ much. But I'll know for sure this afternoon once I buy the CVD coated inserts from the dude
08:25 AM veegee: pcw_home DELIVERY SCHEDULED TODAY SO EXCITED and it was only $30
08:26 AM veegee: import fees are going to be a punch in the gut though
08:27 AM pcw_home: at least you are not in Brazil
08:28 AM pcw_home: their import duty is at least 100%
08:33 AM drdoc: zowie
08:34 AM drdoc: veegee: if you didn't see last night's comment
08:35 AM drdoc: Ideal Precision sells demo & refurb calipers & micrometers. The shop I used to work for bought nearly exclusively from them and their refurbs are literally like new
08:59 AM veegee: drdoc oh I missed that somehow, thank you for that
08:59 AM veegee: the highlighting in textual is a bit confusing and its scrollback buffer is pathetic
09:38 AM drdoc: veegee: their url is totally nonintuitive
09:38 AM drdoc: http://www.idealprec.com
09:43 AM veegee: pcw_home I want to get rid of my dedicated DRO and hook up the glass scales directly to the FPGA. Can the FPGA communicate simultaneously with another program while LinuxCNC is operating it?
09:44 AM veegee: That is, can I make a separate program to communicate with a separate block in the FPGA that just handles the DRO functionality?
09:44 AM veegee: The goal is to just have the dedicated computer monitors at each machine act as the CNC controller as well as the DRO and eventually create a program for simple automated operations. I think they call it "conversational" or whatever
09:44 AM jymmmm: veegee: Just curious, where are you expecting the readout to be?
09:45 AM pcw_home: Probably better to handle that communication via hal
09:45 AM veegee: jymmmm on the computer monitor
09:45 AM veegee: pcw_home ok so through the linuxcnc HAL?
09:45 AM pcw_home: so that the DRO can reflect machine offsets etc in a smart way
09:46 AM veegee: I'm open to making it work via any mechanism, just want to get your thoughts on the best way
09:46 AM veegee: I don't mind having linuxcnc act as a daemon and frontend to the FPGA system
09:46 AM veegee: then it can present the DRO data over ZeroMQ or IPC or whatever
09:47 AM veegee: I haven't had the chance to look into the protocol between LinuxCNC and the FPGA. I guess I have to do that before I do anything else
09:47 AM jymmmm: veegee: will your glass scales keep up during jogging or lcnc operation?
09:47 AM veegee: jymmmm why wouldn't they?
09:48 AM veegee: I don't need them to act as position feedback for LinuxCNC
09:48 AM veegee: I just want to make my computer act as the DRO instead of having the physical DRO as a separate unit
09:48 AM jymmmm: veegee: I just heard that glass scales are a bit slow, could be mistaken.
09:48 AM veegee: no reason the output from the scales' encoders can't be read in realtime
09:48 AM veegee: that doesn't matter
09:49 AM jymmmm: ah ok
09:49 AM veegee: it's for human reading purposes, not for LinuxCNC to care about
09:49 AM veegee: I literally just want to make a software DRO because the keypad on my hardware DRO is dead and I don't want to bother fixing it
09:49 AM jymmmm: I was just thinking you could add a DRO display to lcnc
09:49 AM jymmmm: GUI wise
09:50 AM veegee: that would be fine with me. I have some resources to spare to dedicate to LinuxCNC development
09:50 AM veegee: I have to learn the system architecture of LinuxCNC first, especially the HAL and protocol to the FPGA
09:51 AM jymmmm: Then couldn't you use extra inputs on the mesa card and attach the scales to them?
09:51 AM veegee: Because I also want to add functionality where I can just give it ad hoc "commands"
09:51 AM veegee: jymmmm exactly, that's the plan
09:51 AM veegee: That's why I just dumped $500 into mesa cards for the prototype
09:51 AM veegee: my question for pcw was more related to if linuxCNC somehow locks exclusive access to the FPGA
09:52 AM veegee: because I need this to work while linuxCNC is also doing its own thing
09:52 AM jymmmm: https://www.forum.linuxcnc.org/24-hal-components/36024-precision-automatic-homing-using-an-independent-dro-scale-index#126106
09:52 AM veegee: don't really need that, my servos have absolute position as it is
09:53 AM veegee: but yeah it could use that for the closed loop steppers on the lathe
09:53 AM jymmmm: But it's a start creating your own indeendant DRO
09:54 AM veegee: pcw_home are your board schematics open source as well?
09:54 AM jymmmm: ...within lcnc I mean
09:54 AM veegee: yeah
09:54 AM veegee: pcw_home and what did you use to lay out the PCB? Altium? Also, auto router or manually routed?
09:56 AM jymmmm: https://www.forum.linuxcnc.org/24-hal-components/33104-dro-encoder
09:58 AM pcw_home: We normally do not supply schematics though can on request, Most board lay-outs were done with Mentor (hand routed)
10:36 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:39 AM jymmmm: Hi JT-Shop
10:42 AM JT-Shop: hi
11:14 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform open laptop (i.mx8) with CNC milled enclosure
11:30 AM roycroft: that machine looks like a 1990s vintage ibm, except it has a trackball
11:30 AM roycroft: pretty clunky for this day and age, but i guess clunkiness is part of the cost of repairability
11:31 AM roycroft: the display is way too small to be useful to old people like me :)
11:32 AM roycroft: the concept is great, though, and it's a good first go
11:32 AM roycroft: hopefully, since they raised so much cash, they'll be able to work on refining the design and making the next version better
11:43 AM JT-Shop: another happy customer in AU requested a refund on USPS Priority shipping over 10 days... sorry but Priority is not a guaranteed delivery service
11:48 AM pcw_home: We have been warning international customers that request any USPS service (usually for for cost reasons) to expect up to 6 week delivery times
11:51 AM JT-Shop: I shipped to AU with UPS and it took 6 days, I'm advising against using USPS for now
11:54 AM roycroft: but our postmaster general is a highly successful private businessman in the logistics sector! he knows how to run a shipping company efficiently!
11:54 AM JT-Shop: odd that prior to 4-1 shipping was normal to down under but after that no packages have moved
11:55 AM JT-Shop: I'm sure it's all his fault...
11:56 AM roycroft: it may be on australia, in part, to be fair
11:56 AM roycroft: but a lot of things have broken at the usps since dejoy took over
11:57 AM JT-Shop: no packages to nz have moved either
11:58 AM roycroft: they've had the same kinds of lockdown restrictions as australia
11:58 AM roycroft: i don't keep up on every country's current status, but that has been an issue for over a year
11:58 AM roycroft: some countries impose quarantines on incoming shipments, some don't accept them at all
11:59 AM JT-Shop: like I said prior to 4-1 shipping to au an nz took a normal time
11:59 AM roycroft: right
11:59 AM JT-Shop: is there a new issue in au and nz? I've not seen anything and ups ships fine to au
12:00 PM JT-Shop: so I doubt it is on their end
12:00 PM roycroft: there was a recent covid outreak in one of the australian states, and a bunch of lockdown rules were implemented, but i don't recall the details
12:00 PM roycroft: i'm not saying that's the cause, just that it's possible
12:01 PM roycroft: and it could be that ups ship via different routes than usps, and that could account for the time difference, as those import restrictions are not usually blanket restrictions - they're geographically based
12:01 PM roycroft: it could be that the usps are just doing a lousy job, though
12:02 PM JT-Shop: more like usps can't get a plane and ups has it's own planes
12:02 PM roycroft: usps could always contract with ups to haul the stuff :)
12:11 PM * roycroft needs a 9mm drill, and is afraid he'll have to drive over to springfield to get it
12:12 PM roycroft: i really should just invest in a nice set of metric drills, instead of buying them one-off as i need them
12:21 PM veegee: Tom_L https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qZvUD48cZY
12:22 PM veegee: I no longer need to care about HSS vs carbide for surface finish
12:22 PM veegee: This solved all my surface finish problems
12:22 PM veegee: Now I don't have to care about it at all. I just need to do roughing passes then a final pass with this
12:22 PM veegee: roycroft yes you should invest in a nice set of metric everything
12:28 PM pcw_home: Especially metric clocks with decidays
12:30 PM roycroft: send me some $$ and i'd be happy to do so, veegee
12:30 PM veegee: 'Holy shit that surface finish on copper is impressive
12:30 PM veegee: It's mirror like
12:30 PM roycroft: i'd machine everything in metric were it not for metric tooling being so much more expensive than us customary tooling
12:31 PM veegee: roycroft <3
12:31 PM veegee: that seems to be the case for some reason
12:31 PM roycroft: just as i'd do all my woodworking in metric units, were the metric tooling not so expensive and often made of unobtanium
12:32 PM roycroft: i'm a strong proponent of using si units, but i'm also practical
12:33 PM * Vq is also a strong proponent of using si units, which is practical
12:35 PM roycroft: it
12:35 PM roycroft: is not practical in the usa, sadly
12:36 PM roycroft: once i convert my mill/drill to cnc it won't matter
12:36 PM Vq: A lot of people here when doing woodworking use imperial units (not me)
12:36 PM Vq: It's kind of amusing that you would use metric for that.
12:36 PM roycroft: fractions can be very useful for woodworking
12:37 PM roycroft: i've built cabinets in metric, using the 35mm system, but for most things i still use us customary units
12:38 PM roycroft: people make stupid arguments for retaining us customary units
12:38 PM roycroft: the most ludicrous one is that machining in us customary units is more "accurate" than si, because 0.001" is smaller than 1mm
12:39 PM Vq: Pipes still largely use imperial units here.
12:39 PM roycroft: i've see this argument so many times, and it makes my head spin around every time
12:40 PM Vq: They haven't realised µm are also metric? :o)
12:40 PM roycroft: as i said, it makes my head spin around when i read the argument
12:40 PM roycroft: the si system is decimal-based
12:41 PM roycroft: the us customary system is fraction-based
12:41 PM roycroft: (as far as length meausurements)
12:41 PM * Vq is so SI he uses kelvin for differences between temperatures
12:41 PM roycroft: we can ignore the fractions and use decimal inches to gain precision
12:41 PM roycroft: but the system that is inherently decimal-based can only use whole units
12:42 PM roycroft: and is therefore less precise
12:42 PM roycroft: i fundamentally fail to grasp any sense of logic in any of that
12:42 PM Vq: It's my secret pleasure to convert distances into mega-inches for visiting imperial unit users.
12:42 PM roycroft: yet i've seen that argument made time and time again
12:43 PM roycroft: i've even seen it said that the reason chinese parts are so bad is because they use "imprecise" metric units
12:43 PM roycroft: does that mean that german parts are just as bad as crappy chinese parts?
12:43 PM roycroft: i think any german would take exception to such a claim
12:44 PM Vq: The real difference is when you get into calculation that involve more kinds of physical quantities.
12:45 PM Vq: I'm pretty sure your hypothetical german would.
12:47 PM Vq: Sizes of SMD caps and resistors really confuse me, there are imperial and metric footprint sizes and both are written the exact same way.
01:06 PM roycroft: it doesn't really matter for that kind of stuff
01:06 PM roycroft: it's easy to convert between the two systems
01:07 PM roycroft: they should not be written the exact same way, though
01:08 PM roycroft: and i have to say, that while machinist-types casually using the term "thou" to refer thousandths of an inch annoys me, when they use "mil" for the same thing it absolutely drives me up a wall, especially since casual machinists outwith the usa often use "mil" instead of "millimeter"
01:09 PM roycroft: using the same sloppy term for two different units is an invitation to disaster
01:10 PM Vq: I usually use mil, it's pretty common when doing PCB layout.
01:12 PM roycroft: yes, i know it's common
01:12 PM roycroft: but it's still ambiguous
01:12 PM roycroft: and imo should be strongly discouraged
01:14 PM Vq: It's not that bad here since we don't say "mil" when we mean mm.
01:14 PM roycroft: it's kind of like using "gallon" in the uk to refer to ~4.5l of something and "gallon" in the us to refer to ~3.75l of something
01:14 PM Vq: and "mil" isn't used outside very specific fields.
01:14 PM roycroft: except "gallon" is a standard term
01:14 PM roycroft: "mil" is not
01:15 PM roycroft: i think that using "mil" to refer to mm is more wrong
01:16 PM roycroft: and in my experience it's almost always amateur machinists who use that term
01:19 PM Vq: We either say "millimeter" or nothing at all.
01:22 PM drdoc: roycroft: Eagle doe3s that
01:22 PM drdoc: 1 mil = .001
01:23 PM drdoc: it makes me crazy
01:24 PM drdoc: especially since the Spousal Equivalent is a nurse and she's always talking about mils which equal 1ml
01:24 PM Vq: drdoc: I don't know of any EDA that doesn't.
01:24 PM drdoc: Vq: me neither, sadly
01:24 PM drdoc: and it's Wrong.
01:25 PM drdoc: of course, we could do away with Imperial units altogether and fix that
01:25 PM Vq: Didn't think of that, ml is pronounced mil sometimes.
01:25 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:27 PM drdoc: she gets bent when I say "centigrade" too
01:27 PM drdoc: it's CELSIUS
01:28 PM drdoc: but she quit giving me grief about it when I threatened to learn Kelvin
01:28 PM Vq: degrees celsius
01:28 PM drdoc: yep
01:28 PM drdoc: but degrees centigrade is also correct
01:28 PM Vq: As I wrote earlier, I'm a nutcase who use Kelvin for difference between temperatures.
01:29 PM drdoc: maybe a bit archaic
01:30 PM drdoc: I'm slowly learning to translate fahrenheit to celsius without having to think much about it
01:31 PM Vq: I'm hopeless with Farenheit.
01:31 PM drdoc: it's just as silly as most imperial units
01:32 PM Vq: I know that -40°C = -40°F and that 100°F is somewhere close to body temperature (37°C).
01:32 PM drdoc: yup
01:32 PM Vq: But I can't quickly relate to a temperature expressed in Farenheit.
01:32 PM drdoc: and around 25-28C is comfortable
01:33 PM Vq: I'm scandinavian so I'd say 19-22°C :P
01:33 PM drdoc: heh
01:34 PM drdoc: I'm good with that, as long as I don't have to be still
01:34 PM drdoc: Sara thinks I'm nuts
01:35 PM drdoc: I'm happy at 18-19C until I put on clothes
01:35 PM drdoc: then I get cold
01:35 PM Vq: Below 18°C can feel a bit cold if I only wear a short sleaved shirt.
01:35 PM drdoc: same
01:35 PM drdoc: I grew up in West Texas - the "Great Plains" area
01:36 PM Vq: My manager have compared me to an icelandic fisherman on some occations so I might be more comfortable with the cold than most swedes.
01:36 PM drdoc: winter temps commonly get to -25C, and summer goes to 45 or 45C
01:36 PM drdoc: heh
01:38 PM Vq: Those would be both unusually cold and unusually warm here.
01:38 PM drdoc: it's pretty harsh
01:39 PM drdoc: and windy most of the time
01:40 PM drdoc: there's supposedly a native american legnd trhat when the Great Spirit was making the world, he made the mountains and coastal lands, and the midwest farmlands and all the nice places
01:41 PM drdoc: when he finally got around to the Great Plains he was tired, and out of cool ideas
01:41 PM drdoc: so he said "Whatever. Instead of making it nice, I'll just make men crazy enough to live there."
01:42 PM drdoc: and there's a lot of truth there. Plainsmen tend to be a little different
01:43 PM drdoc: (not me, I'm perfectly normal.)
01:43 PM * drdoc toodles off to get jabbed again
01:43 PM Vq: I think there's some saying like that about where I live too.
01:44 PM drdoc: I believe it
01:44 PM drdoc: hard weather makes hard men
01:44 PM Vq: The Småland highland is pretty rocky and not a very fertile kind of land.
01:44 PM Vq: People had to be pretty thrifty to survive here.
01:45 PM Vq: We're infamous for being cheap-skates but also for being industrious.
01:45 PM drdoc: heh
01:45 PM drdoc: nice
01:45 PM drdoc: OK, I got to go. Doctor time
01:45 PM Vq: IKEA is from Småland btw.
01:46 PM Vq: See you around
03:11 PM * JT-Shop just found a replacement servo for the bp for $200
03:32 PM Vq: JT-Shop: spindle servo?
03:38 PM JT-Shop: X axis
03:51 PM Tom_L: nice
03:51 PM Tom_L: you have to replace the amp too?
03:56 PM Vq: I have one of these in my shop: https://media.exapro.com/product/2014/11/P41106263/ad99585fbbadb3c7208c352d4c1b0538/bridgeport-apc-60020-vertical-machining-centre-p41106263_2.JPG
03:56 PM JT-Shop: no, it's the exact same servo
03:56 PM Vq: BP APC 630
03:57 PM Tom_L: nice, that doesn't always happen
03:57 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, i gave up on that file
03:57 PM Vq: The high-voltage box in front of all the servos burned itself out. We replaced everything electric and LinuxCNCified it.
03:58 PM Tom_L: i tried to join some of the surfaces in catia and there were some with .007- .010" gaps which made it unsucessful
03:59 PM Tom_L: maybe something else would handle it better but i have my doubts
03:59 PM Vq: I still have all the servos lying around, but they are probably not in a good shape.
04:16 PM JT-Shop: I actually have a CATPart file but it won't load error is wrong application level
04:16 PM Tom_L: so do i
04:17 PM Tom_L: i zoomed in on a couple of the spots and measured the gaps
04:17 PM roycroft: sloppy cad operators
04:17 PM JT-Shop: Vq, https://gnipsel.com/shop/unload-308/unload-308.xhtml
04:17 PM JT-Shop: that's my VMC
04:17 PM Tom_L: i can send you mine if you wanna look at it
04:17 PM Tom_L: i may have more than one
04:18 PM JT-Shop: files?
04:18 PM Tom_L: cat part files
04:18 PM roycroft: when i took my first autocad class my instructor really focused on non-intersecting lines like that
04:18 PM JT-Shop: let me grab them in the morning
04:18 PM Tom_L: i was having problems on my main pc importing it
04:18 PM Tom_L: np, ppl are here anyway
04:19 PM roycroft: he taught us several techniques to avoid them, and harshly graded down assignments that had them
04:19 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/discovery-308/
04:19 PM roycroft: i still get an a+ in the class, and developed some skills that fit in well with my general tendency to be very meticulate about things
04:19 PM * JT-Shop had to figure it out on his own... plasma is not forgiving
04:20 PM Vq: JT-Shop: Neat, the electrical cabinet looks very similar to my APC 630. Probably a similar vintage.
04:45 PM JT-Shop: Vq, 386 pc lol
05:15 PM veegee: pcw_home I sent you a direct message on IRC. I should probably have emailed you since it's an "official" matter, but let me know how to proceed when you get a chance. Thanks!
05:16 PM veegee: Tom_L that shear tool for the lathe is the coolest thing I've learned all week
05:16 PM veegee: Tom_L the surface finish I'm getting is phenomenal
05:17 PM veegee: New love for M35 HSS
07:17 PM tris- is now known as tris
09:25 PM Tom_L: yay, spare mill holders arrived usps late (6:30ish pm)
09:33 PM roycroft: well, i'm a little bummed now
09:33 PM roycroft: last summer my new woodworking bench got a few dings almost right away, which was a relief
09:33 PM roycroft: because i did not want to worry about keeping it perfect
09:33 PM roycroft: but i just drilled my first two holes into ti
09:33 PM Tom_L: (secretly you did)
09:33 PM roycroft: a ding is fine
09:34 PM roycroft: a dent is fine
09:34 PM roycroft: but i don't want holes
09:34 PM roycroft: my intent was always to make an overlay surface for doing machine operations like drilling and routing, but i haven't gotten around to that yet
09:35 PM roycroft: i can probably plug them and make them pretty much invisible
09:35 PM roycroft: but still ...
09:35 PM roycroft: i actually didn't, tom_l
09:35 PM Tom_L: how big are the holes?
09:35 PM roycroft: just 1/4" diameter, and very shallow
09:36 PM roycroft: about 1/8" deep
09:36 PM roycroft: i was going to use some 3/4" mdf for this project, but found some 5/8" that worked, and was fine
09:37 PM roycroft: i forgot to adjust the drill depth though
09:37 PM roycroft: i guess the bench has more character now, but not the kind of character i want
09:39 PM Tom_L: in the middle, side, corner...?
09:40 PM roycroft: in the middle
09:41 PM Tom_L: now you can route a square from it and imbed some inlay with a maker's mark or name
09:41 PM roycroft: i could
09:41 PM roycroft: or i could just plug the holes
09:41 PM roycroft: i have plenty of leftover ash from when i built it - i'm sure i can find a piece where the color and grain matches well and cut a couple plugs
09:42 PM roycroft: i'll just drill the holes deeper and plug them
09:42 PM Tom_L: that _was_ a nice looking bench too
09:42 PM roycroft: it still is
09:43 PM roycroft: most folks would never notice the holes
09:43 PM roycroft: or other flaws
09:43 PM Tom_L: no probably not
09:43 PM roycroft: if i suspect someone might, i'll offer them a nice, strong mojito before they inspect the bench
09:45 PM roycroft: and in the irony department, i got some 1/4"-20tpi threaded inserts for the project i'm working on
09:46 PM roycroft: those particular inserts specify drilling a 9mm hole to insert them
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