#linuxcnc Logs
May 28 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:55 AM veegee: pcw_home how are you interfacing spartan 6 fpgas to pcie? Through the GTP transceivers?
01:11 AM Deejay: moin
01:16 AM Vq: Good morning
04:11 AM Tom_L: morning
05:35 AM JT-Cave: morning
07:12 AM veegee: Tom_L are you using steppers or servos?
07:22 AM Tom_L: steppers
07:24 AM veegee: Tom_L ok cool. I'm also going to be buying some closed loop steppers. Thinking about low inductance NEMA 34 so I can get decent rapids
07:26 AM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/253223632606?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
07:32 AM veegee: Tom_L need _waaaaaayy_ more torque than that. Minimum this: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema34-closed-loop-stepper-motor-system-hybrid-servo-kit/nema-34-hybrid-servo-motor-kl34-8n-1000-rated-torque-1128-oz-in
07:32 AM veegee: 7 N•m at least
07:33 AM Tom_L: those are what i used
07:33 AM veegee: ah ok
07:36 AM JT-Cave: yippie it's Friday
07:41 AM veegee: Any reason to _not_ use stainless steel machine screws?
07:42 AM veegee: Does stainless steel have a tendency to gall and cold weld to aluminum or regular steel?
09:04 AM Loetmichel: *giggle* coworker is out in the backyard, welding a new workbench for the bending brake to sit on. cussing all the way "Maan, those welds look like crap, whats wrong?"... ne listenes to him welding for a moment... *crackle* *sputter* then opens the valve at the corgon(r) gas cylinder... "better?" :)
09:15 AM roycroft: i can't say that's the only time that's ever happened to someone
09:16 AM Loetmichel: indeed
09:17 AM Loetmichel: i could hear the missing gas
09:17 AM Loetmichel: because i did that particular blunder all the time
09:17 AM Loetmichel: back when i was welding more often
09:20 AM drdoc: morning, all
09:25 AM roycroft: i can tell pretty quickly when i've forgotten to turn the gas on
09:25 AM roycroft: and yes, it's more by sound
09:26 AM roycroft: my weld quality is not that great even when i have the has on
09:31 AM drdoc: there are places in the world where you can MIG weld outside????
09:32 AM veegee: drdoc it's just a matter of how windy it is
09:32 AM drdoc: veegee: I'm well aware of that
09:32 AM veegee: but mig welding outside is stupid anyway
09:32 AM veegee: it shows they either don't have a stick welder or don't know how to weld
09:32 AM drdoc: in Texas it's rarely an option
09:33 AM veegee: Well you can do flux core, but it still shows you don't know how to weld
09:33 AM veegee: Especially something as thick as a base for a press brake
09:34 AM drdoc: that's a pretty tall horse you're riding there, veegee
09:36 AM veegee: You can spray transfer but everything about that story screams DON'T LET THE NOOB WELD STRUCTURAL COMPONENTS FOR MACHINE TOOLS
09:38 AM Loetmichel: [16:17] <drdoc> there are places in the world where you can MIG weld outside???? backyard, covered on three sides by high concrete walls
09:38 AM Loetmichel: no wind
09:38 AM drdoc: Loetmichel: that works
09:39 AM drdoc: We used to keep tents with the floor cut out in west TX
09:39 AM drdoc: even stick welding is pretty iffy in a 30mph wind
09:39 AM Loetmichel: better than welding on ESD PVC floor in the electronics workshop :)
09:40 AM drdoc: yes, yes it is
09:41 AM drdoc: veegee: how old are you, if I may ask?
09:42 AM veegee: drdoc you first
09:42 AM drdoc: I'm 62
09:42 AM veegee: really?
09:42 AM drdoc: yep
09:42 AM veegee: 30
09:43 AM Loetmichel: hehe, even a decade older than me.
09:43 AM Loetmichel: another old fart.
09:43 AM Loetmichel: welcome to the club
09:43 AM drdoc: veegee: there are people on this channel who were certified welders before you were born
09:43 AM drdoc: you might wanna cool your jets.
09:43 AM veegee: I'm sure there are
09:44 AM veegee: But what does that have anything to do with letting a noob weld structural components?
09:44 AM veegee: That's a safety hazard on so many levels
09:45 AM Loetmichel: veegee: the amount of weld he puts on that stand is sufficient even with all the sputtering and splattery to be structurally sound.
09:45 AM Loetmichel: i have no fears the bending brake will fall on my feet.
09:46 AM Loetmichel: and that particular failure with forgetting to turn on the gas is common, even with seasoned welders. Made that blunder myself a few hundred times in my life. Thats why i could tell the problem from the sound
09:46 AM drdoc: veegee: there's more ASSumption than understanding in those statements
09:48 AM veegee: drdoc ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
09:48 AM drdoc: Loetmichel: true fact, man
09:48 AM veegee: as opposed to a false fact?
09:50 AM drdoc: the Miller at my last job had a pressure sensor rigged to a Big Red Light bolted to the cabinet
09:50 AM Loetmichel: drdoc: well, you'll learn a thing or two in ~40 years of welding.
09:50 AM drdoc: yessirt
09:50 AM drdoc: I got my first cert in 1978
09:51 AM drdoc: none of us at that machine shop welded regularly and we all kept forgetting the gas
09:51 AM Loetmichel: nice, welder with a low pressure warning. not my level of tools. can only afford the "harborfreight" quality.
09:51 AM drdoc: oh, no, that was a homemade job
09:52 AM Loetmichel: and have to bring my private wlder for such jobs to the company, boss isnt to keen on buying one, considering we are a computer manufacturer
09:52 AM drdoc: $20 sensor and a $5 light
09:53 AM drdoc: if you power up the welder before turning on the argon the light burns
09:53 AM drdoc: I think every welder should come equipped with that
10:07 AM norias: drdoc: makes sense. I have a tendency to attempt to weld without cover gas
10:07 AM norias: usually with TIG
10:07 AM * roycroft makes a point to never stand near anything norias has welded
10:08 AM jymmmm: lol
10:08 AM jymmmm: morning
10:15 AM roycroft: it's friday, and it's a holiday weekend
10:16 AM * roycroft really needs a long weekend
10:20 AM veegee: what holiday?
10:20 AM pcw_home: interesting tech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9sXbpwF_yY
10:21 AM norias: roycroft: I tend to notice quickly. and yeah, i'm not a great welder, so probably a good idea
10:21 AM norias: veegee: memorial day, if in the US
10:22 AM veegee: norias ah ok, thanks
10:22 AM veegee: norias and yeah, one does tend to notice very quickly if there's no gas
10:22 AM veegee: like within a few seconds
10:23 AM veegee: Which is why I say the noob MIG welding the thing outside shouldn't be allowed to weld anything structural, especially if other people will be around the equipment
10:23 AM roycroft: it's memorial day in the usa
10:23 AM roycroft: on monday
10:24 AM roycroft: we don't celebrate victoria day late
10:24 AM roycroft: we don't celebrate it at all
10:25 AM norias: veegee: i really like the flux core for outdoor structural
10:25 AM norias: veegee: no gas to blow away. or stick.
10:26 AM norias: I find myself falling back on stick as my go-to unless there's a reason to use something else.
10:26 AM veegee: Yeah as long as you use spray transfer for thick stuff, flux core is fine
10:27 AM veegee: And same here, stick is my go-to for thick stuff. I use TIG for anything small
10:27 AM veegee: I almost always use 7018 unless I specifically need something else
10:29 AM roycroft: and stick welding is my worst welding
10:29 AM roycroft: i suppose it's what one is used to
10:29 AM veegee: People say use 6011 for the root pass, but I've practiced _a lot_ and cut and check every time and I never had penetration issues with 7018
10:30 AM norias: veegee: i avoid 7018 simply because I don't have a rod oven
10:30 AM roycroft: that's probably my problem with stick welding
10:31 AM veegee: I have a PowerTIG 325 EXT though and it has an "arc force" setting which compensates for the voltage change when the arc length varies
10:31 AM veegee: norias any oven will do, I just converted an old toaster oven
10:31 AM skunkworks: pcw_home: that is cool!
10:31 AM veegee: Also, you don't need to bake them if they're sealed
10:31 AM veegee: Only if they've been sitting out for a while in a humid environment
10:31 AM norias: veegee: yeah i just haven't done it
10:31 AM veegee: Also don't need to bake them for practicing
10:31 AM veegee: It only matters for serious things
10:32 AM norias: i just use 6010 / 6013 alot of the time
10:32 AM roycroft: i have a powertig 250ex, and it has the arc force setting as well
10:32 AM pcw_home: Yeah, I thought using a water jet as an optical fiber is really clever
10:33 AM veegee: the powertig really is a great welder for the price. Same with their water cooler
10:33 AM norias: pcw_home: it is. it makes you wonder how the water needs to be processed first
10:33 AM veegee: I did a lot of research before buying, and nothing else comes close
10:33 AM roycroft: and perhaps you don't need to bake your rods in your climate
10:33 AM roycroft: i assure you, it's necessary here
10:33 AM roycroft: i've been very happy with my everlast welder
10:34 AM roycroft: i also did a lot of research first, and it was the obvious choice
10:34 AM roycroft: they get a lot of push back from the "buy 'murican - buy blue or red" crowd
10:34 AM veegee: always need to bake for anything requiring certified welds. Low hydrogen rods like that must not be exposed to any humidity at all
10:34 AM veegee: or you can get hydrogen induced cracking
10:34 AM roycroft: but the blue and red inverter machines are made overseas, just as the everlast ones are
10:35 AM veegee: And the overwhelming majority of semiconductors are made in places like TSMC in Taiwan
10:35 AM roycroft: but most of the "buy 'murican - buy blue or red" crowd are simpletons
10:35 AM norias: roycroft: my stick welder is a $120 machine i bought on sale for $80
10:35 AM roycroft: yes, but everlast use german igbts
10:35 AM pcw_home: norias: there may well be some magic in the water mix, but it doesn't use much (1 liter/hour I think he said)
10:36 AM veegee: Even if they didn't, I wouldn't hold it against them
10:36 AM veegee: country of origin doesn't determine quality
10:36 AM norias: roycroft: then, i bought a tig torch and bottle / regulator setup to add to it
10:36 AM veegee: but it _is_ fun to be casually racist eh CaptHindsight
10:36 AM norias: roycroft: i spent more on the tig stuff than the machine.
10:36 AM veegee: damn, he's not online
10:37 AM norias: my el cheapo machine does pretty good, though. So far my trailer hasn't fallen apart.
10:37 AM roycroft: all i know is that i got a nice tig welder + water cooler for about 1/3 the cost of blue or red, and it works every bit as well as those other colors,if not better
10:37 AM norias: yeah, i don't weld enough to justify a nice machine
10:38 AM veegee: norias I have a shitty AC transformer welder and a cheap inverter welder and there is a _huge_ difference
10:38 AM roycroft: the funny thing is, i bought that machine for tig welding, but i don't do much tig welding
10:38 AM norias: the only reason i got the tig stuff was it takes forever to stick weld sheet metal
10:38 AM veegee: things like arc force and "hot start" have a huge effect
10:38 AM roycroft: however, i have hired folks to do sanitary tig welds on ss for me, and they use my machine and love it
10:38 AM norias: i kinda want to get that "arc pig" product
10:39 AM norias: that said, fucking around at home has helped. The welder called off one day and I had to tig some stuff
10:39 AM norias: and boy was it easy with a pedal and all the nice stuff
10:39 AM roycroft: i'd say that third parties have probably used that machine more than i have
10:39 AM roycroft: i'm not a fan of a foot pedal
10:39 AM norias: right now, i have to scratch start
10:40 AM roycroft: i like the little knob right on the torch
10:40 AM veegee: foot pedal helps a lot for pulse on aluminum
10:40 AM roycroft: but i don't have a torch with a knob, so i have to deal with the foot pedal at the moment
10:40 AM veegee: or on very thin stuff
10:40 AM roycroft: the control is nice, veegee
10:40 AM roycroft: i'd just rather do it with my thumb than my foot
10:40 AM norias: i'm thinking about getting one of the AC/DC buzz boxes and converting it in to an old-school tig machine
10:40 AM roycroft: i've used torches with thumb knobs and i really like them a lot better than foot pedals
10:41 AM norias: roycroft: for the gas?
10:41 AM veegee: norias current control
10:42 AM norias: oh. huh
10:42 AM roycroft: yeah
10:42 AM veegee: You don't _need_ it, but part of what makes TIG let you get perfect welds is the precision and control you have
10:42 AM roycroft: it puts the foot pedal functionality on a potentiometer on the torch itself
10:43 AM norias: i need to actually study the science of welding
10:43 AM norias: after i'm done with school
10:45 AM veegee: norias the electric arc is the core concept, it creates the super high temperature needed to melt the metal
10:45 AM veegee: other things like shielding gas determine how the arc behaves and heat transfer etc.
10:46 AM norias: yeah. i've done a small amount of reading
10:46 AM norias: but i'd like to actually know wtf i'm talking about at some point
10:46 AM norias: for now i just like sticking stuff together and not thinking about math
10:47 AM veegee: There's very little math involved
10:47 AM norias: exactly
10:47 AM veegee: oh you mean you're studying mathematics in university?
10:47 AM norias: sort of. it comes up in everything i do, it seems
10:47 AM norias: i'm _minoring_ in math
10:48 AM veegee: what major?
10:48 AM norias: computer science
10:48 AM veegee: I own a software engineering company and know pretty much every language if you have any questions ;)
10:48 AM norias: nice
10:48 AM norias: what sort of software do you engineer?
10:49 AM veegee: Anything from embedded systems firmware to complete application servers, web frontends, iOS/Android apps
10:49 AM norias: wow, neat.
10:49 AM veegee: Highly depends on the client, but we have a team of software engineers
10:50 AM norias: I'm a machinst, and working on software related to that was my first impetus
10:50 AM norias: but i'm trying to keep an open mind on what i end up doing, at least at first
10:50 AM norias: i feel like you can't be too picky when you are starting out
10:51 AM norias: i'm interested in embedded, scientific / mathematical computing, and manfuacturing applications
10:51 AM veegee: You definitely want to take electrical engineering if you're heading in that direction
10:51 AM norias: that's my thinking
10:52 AM norias: the manufacturing stuff i'm mostly interested in is higher level
10:52 AM norias: messing with step files, etc
10:52 AM veegee: like CAM?
10:53 AM norias: yeah, basically
10:53 AM norias: i have a few sub-interests, there.
10:54 AM norias: i think working on toolpath algorithms is a little overdone
10:54 AM norias: i'm interested in process planning support
10:54 AM norias: and higher level feedback loops
10:54 AM veegee: That is indeed very specific, but you'll definitely need to take EE for that
10:54 AM veegee: like control systems theory
10:54 AM norias: i.e. taking CMM results and feeding them in to CAM
10:57 AM norias: yeah
11:01 AM norias: which is why i'll do whatever to pay the bills when i get out of school
11:01 AM norias: because being too niche doesn't seem to pay
11:01 AM norias: (at first)
11:01 AM norias: or at least, i feel like that's what i learned in machining
11:02 AM norias: i just did whatever people would pay me for until i got good in certain things
11:02 AM roycroft: process control engineering is a lucrative field
11:03 AM norias: no doubt
11:03 AM roycroft: well, i just heard an anticipated but disappointing report on the radio
11:04 AM norias: oh?
11:04 AM roycroft: we're officially in our worst drought in over 100 years
11:06 AM norias: where?
11:06 AM roycroft: oregon
11:06 AM norias: yikes
11:06 AM roycroft: and this is coming right after we had our first normal snowpack in a decade
11:06 AM norias: huh
11:06 AM roycroft: we thought we'd be ok on water this year after the winter
11:06 AM roycroft: and then the spring rains never happened
11:06 AM norias: those two seem to contradict each other
11:07 AM roycroft: wet winter, dry spring
11:07 AM norias: yeah
11:07 AM norias: but where did the moisture go?
11:07 AM norias: i.e. when the temp changed, why did the air suddenly dry up?
11:09 AM roycroft: the snow stores the water - it doesn't evaporate and create rain
11:09 AM roycroft: the water comes in from the ocean to the west
11:09 AM roycroft: and gets stored in the mountains to the east
11:09 AM roycroft: the water is not coming in from the ocean now
11:12 AM veegee: roycroft what's the slowest longitudinal feed on your lathe?
11:13 AM veegee: I just don't understand it. The lowest setting on mine is still too fast and creating a thread
11:14 AM veegee: The cross feed is fine and is geared at 1:3 of the long. feed
11:14 AM veegee: Is the long. feed only meant for threading, or is it possible to use it for finish passes too?
11:18 AM JT-Cave: another irate customer in au or nz wants me to refund their postage lol
11:18 AM roycroft: it must be frustrating
11:18 AM JT-Cave: very
11:18 AM roycroft: i think 0.002"/rev, veegee
11:19 AM roycroft: maybe 0.0015"/rev
11:19 AM veegee: Mine is 0.0026"/rev
11:19 AM veegee: Time to verify if that's actually tru
11:20 AM roycroft: i was about to check on something in the shop anway, so i'll look when i'm out there
11:20 AM veegee: Ok thanks
11:21 AM roycroft: 0.0012"/rev
11:22 AM roycroft: and my jigs are not ready for wax yet
11:22 AM roycroft: the one drawback of tried and true varnish oil
11:22 AM roycroft: it takes several days to dry
11:29 AM veegee: Oh wow that's a very fine feed. As far as my lathe goes, there's definitely something wrong with the gears. It's not doing what it's supposed to
11:31 AM roycroft: the gearing for feeding and threading is different
11:31 AM roycroft: and there's a lever to switch betewen feed mode and threading mode
11:31 AM roycroft: are you using that?
11:31 AM roycroft: threading mode moves a lot more than feed mode
11:32 AM roycroft: so if you're engaging the longitudinal feed while in threading mode you're going to be moving way too fast
11:32 AM roycroft: the feed/thread lever is usually near the quick change gear box
12:02 PM jymmmm: JT-Cave: cradek andypugh seb_kuzm1nsky Just a big heads up... https://fridge.ubuntu.com/ https://lwn.net/Articles/857252/ https://mastodon.sdf.org/@kline/106299403921451814
12:02 PM jymmmm: over 700 channels
12:04 PM jymmmm: One option (as a backup) could be discord
12:10 PM roycroft: i'm even less inclined to have anything to do with libera.chat after reading the links above
12:11 PM jymmmm: why's that?
12:11 PM roycroft: freenode's policy is that a channel must be open and allow users to join and chat
12:12 PM roycroft: that's not an unreasonable policy
12:12 PM roycroft: a bunch of channels moved to libera.net
12:12 PM roycroft: and when they did so they removed voice from their channel, thus violating policy
12:12 PM roycroft: and redirected to libera.chat in their /topic
12:13 PM roycroft: so they violated policy, and now are whining about the policy's being enforced
12:13 PM jymmmm: ah
12:13 PM roycroft: as i've said here multiple times, i don't care if a channel moves elsewhere
12:13 PM roycroft: but if i join a channel here and cannot speak, or whenver i speak am ordered by a bot to move to the other network, i take issue
12:14 PM roycroft: if you want to abandon freenode, fine
12:14 PM roycroft: if i join your abandoned channel, leave me alone
12:14 PM roycroft: i don't expect you to help me if you've abandoned it
12:15 PM roycroft: but i expect to be able to speak, and to not be told that i have to move to your new network
12:15 PM roycroft: i don't think that's an unreasonable expectation on my part
12:15 PM Tom_L: damn hippies and their free speech ideas....
12:15 PM Tom_L: gawd!
12:15 PM roycroft: this is not a first amendment issue
12:16 PM Tom_L: yeah i know
12:16 PM roycroft: as far as i know, freenode is not owned or operated by the government
12:16 PM roycroft: but freenode's policies say that users should be able to speak in channels
12:16 PM roycroft: so my expectation is that channels will abide by freenode policy
12:17 PM jymmmm: Heh, a wee bit dated... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LinuxCNC
12:20 PM Tom_L: pcw_home, cool tech
12:35 PM veegee: roycroft yeah the label was worn off and that particular gear is the odd notch between other gears. It's not engaging for some reason. Have to open it up now. Thanks
12:44 PM roycroft: good luck
12:45 PM roycroft: the drive shaft is a smooth, keyed shaft that's generally below the lead screw
12:45 PM roycroft: when you're set to threading mode the lead screw will rotate, and when you're set to feed mode the feed shaft should rotate
12:45 PM roycroft: that's how most lathes of your class work
12:46 PM roycroft: some small lathes have a combination lead/feed screw, which is an acme thread screw with a key running the length of the screw
12:47 PM roycroft: usually you have to mess with the change gears to switch from feed to thread mode on those
12:47 PM roycroft: but i've never seen a 14" swing lathe with that setup
12:51 PM enleth: roycroft: some of those bots were probably left here with the intent of letting people know where everyone else is. Normally this could be handled by settimg a topic such as "we've moved to #whatever on libera.chat, you're welcome to join us", but two days ago Andrew Lee ran a script that swooped over any and all channels with "libera.chat" in the topics, taking them over at ChanServ level
12:52 PM enleth: setting up a bot that tells you that you *must* move is bit much
12:52 PM enleth: But setting up a bot is the only way now for those channels to let you *know* where everyone went
12:53 PM enleth: And, yes, Andrew did that to channels that still had hundreds of active participants and did not move yet, simply considered the possibility openly
12:54 PM enleth: Needless to say, he helped them finalize their decisions
12:56 PM enleth: It's hardly a wonder why some former channel operators were extremely pissed off while setting up a bot and might have gone overboard out of anger
12:57 PM enleth: Don't blame them, blame Mr. Clown Prince of Korea
12:58 PM enleth: R
12:58 PM enleth: damn
01:00 PM enleth: roycroft: btw, citing "freenode policy" is a crapshoot right now - rasengan changes it on a whim and retroactively, marks changes as "draft" after having acted upon the new rules, etc., etc.
01:00 PM enleth: r
01:00 PM enleth: shit, this phone keyboard
01:02 PM enleth: roycroft: the concerns you raise would be absolutely valid and reasonable in a normal situation, but what's happening right now is anything but normal
01:03 PM roycroft: the best way for folks to know where to go to get support for a foss project is to go to the foss project's website and follow the link to the irc channel there
01:03 PM enleth: again, not a normal situation
01:03 PM roycroft: that should be a normal situation
01:04 PM roycroft: but again, i'll reiterate that i'm not taking sides on this issue
01:04 PM enleth: but it's not, and it's rasengan's fault
01:04 PM roycroft: i just don't see the point of leaving a network run by a childish tyrant and joining a network full of childish tyrants
01:05 PM roycroft: if there were another option that was actually better i'd be open to moving there
01:05 PM Tom_L: but they're different ones !
01:05 PM roycroft: meet the new boss
01:05 PM roycroft: same as the old boss
01:05 PM enleth: I asked this last time - have you actually seen any libera NETWORK ops act like childish tyrants?
01:06 PM roycroft: it doesn't matter
01:06 PM roycroft: i'm not an oper any more
01:06 PM enleth: what
01:06 PM roycroft: i'm a user
01:06 PM roycroft: i join channels
01:06 PM roycroft: i deal with chanops
01:06 PM enleth: but you're not an ignorant dumb fuck
01:06 PM roycroft: i can't say that i've ever encounter a feenode oper
01:06 PM roycroft: i don't even know who the freenode opers are
01:07 PM Tom_L: join #freenode and ask em
01:07 PM roycroft: the network doesn't matter to me
01:07 PM roycroft: the channels i'm in do
01:07 PM roycroft: so i can only react to the behavior i see in the channels
01:07 PM roycroft: i'm not sure how i can explain that any more clearly
01:08 PM enleth: you're being childish yourself right now - "I understand the difference between netops and chanops but I choose to ignore it to place blame and support my argument"
01:08 PM roycroft: it also appears, from a couple of the posts that i've seen, that a large number of the "hostile takeovers" of channels were the result of a script gone amok
01:08 PM roycroft: i'm not looking to place blame for anything
01:09 PM roycroft: i'm saying that my experience with the folks who run the channels on libre.chat make me not want to go to those channels on libre.net
01:09 PM roycroft: there's no reason to connect to that network except to join the channels i want to be in
01:09 PM enleth: but you've repeatedly called libera ops just as bad while never having anything to do with them
01:10 PM enleth: This would be simply ignorant if you didn't know the difference
01:10 PM Tom_L: i think he joined there briefly for a taste
01:10 PM enleth: But you do
01:10 PM roycroft: yes, i did
01:10 PM Tom_L: it was like being really thirsty and drinking some curtled milk
01:10 PM roycroft: and when those very same chanops who run the channels there became hostile towards me for still being there i was done
01:11 PM roycroft: i don't want to have to choose between one or the other
01:11 PM roycroft: and i felt i was being forced to choose
01:11 PM enleth: but they were CHANops, for fucks sake
01:11 PM roycroft: again, that's who i deal with
01:11 PM Tom_L: if you do not choose you still have made a choice
01:11 PM roycroft: not opers
01:11 PM Tom_L: i forgot the rest of the song :)
01:11 PM enleth: and you are aware of the difference
01:12 PM roycroft: i've not been impressed by the posts the management of the new network have made
01:12 PM roycroft: anyway, i may have some time this weekend to get a matrix client working, and see if it will link to freenode
01:12 PM roycroft: and possibly libre.chat
01:12 PM roycroft: some folks have left linuxcnc for that network
01:12 PM enleth: made after being strongarmed and fucked over by rasengan
01:12 PM roycroft: some are on both, i think
01:13 PM roycroft: see, this is where i think you're confused about me
01:13 PM roycroft: i'm not defending the management of this network at all
01:13 PM roycroft: i don't care about the management of this network
01:13 PM roycroft: nor the management of the new network
01:14 PM roycroft: all i care about is the "user experience" on the channels i'm on
01:15 PM roycroft: and what i experienced, for the most part, is a bunch of channels moving to the other network and becoming very hostile here
01:15 PM roycroft: if they're mad a management, fine
01:15 PM roycroft: it's not necessary to not only show your dirty laundry to the world in general, but smother the world with it
01:15 PM enleth: that's like complaining about loud noise in a coffee shop when a war has broken out after you entered and the noise was bombs falling
01:16 PM roycroft: if i go to the other network and join the channels i frequent, i'll have to deal with those same chanops who were hostile here
01:16 PM roycroft: i don't want to deal with them
01:16 PM roycroft: so there's no reason for me to go there
01:17 PM * roycroft thinks he's explained himself in every way possible, and is still completely misunderstood, so gives up
01:18 PM buzzmarshall: no matter where anyone goes for irc its really nothing more then a social crap shoot, you go where the people you want to talk to or don't bother with irc... its like complaining about places like facebook either go and put up with horseshit on it or dont go
01:18 PM buzzmarshall: but i get your point
01:18 PM enleth: I'm pretty sure many of them appear and act hostile because they a) are pissed off, tired and fed up with this, and b) want to remove their channels from freenode because they no longer wish to legitimize that network with their project's name
01:19 PM enleth: Have you thought of the latter?
01:19 PM enleth: I am in that situation right now as a co-owner of a project
01:19 PM roycroft: then they should have kicked everyone off the channel and set it to invite only
01:19 PM buzzmarshall: alot of the old places like novernet and others eventually died as well because in some cases chan ops can be arogan asses so i get his poin
01:19 PM enleth: r
01:19 PM enleth: roycroft: and they did!
01:19 PM roycroft: and not kept the channel open, and harass every user who joins or talks there
01:20 PM roycroft: which is what happened to me on several channels
01:20 PM enleth: Then His Royal Shittiness came and took over those channels to "give them back to the community"
01:20 PM roycroft: what's the point of having a channel with 100+ users on it, and having a bot flood anyone who speaks with messages to move to the other network?
01:20 PM roycroft: just shut the fucking thing down and be done with it
01:21 PM enleth: that's the pont: THEY CAN'T!
01:21 PM roycroft: i'm fine with that
01:21 PM roycroft: they could when i was there
01:21 PM roycroft: their channels had not been "taken over"
01:21 PM roycroft: they were still in control
01:21 PM roycroft: they kept their channels open so they could recruit users to their new network
01:22 PM roycroft: when i would respectfully decline moving i was not ignored
01:22 PM enleth: Because they did not set +m and info in the topic yet
01:22 PM roycroft: that would have been ok
01:22 PM roycroft: i was chastises
01:22 PM roycroft: chastised
01:22 PM Tom_L: hopefully soon we can get back to talking about cnc stuff
01:22 PM roycroft: i was told what a horrible person the new management are
01:22 PM enleth: I was on a channel that did, and it got taken over
01:22 PM * roycroft notes that he did not bring this topic up today
01:23 PM enleth: I was fucking there and saw it, I have the logs
01:23 PM * roycroft notes that he would rather not discuss this topic at all
01:23 PM Tom_L: all the ot banter makes _me_ wanna leave
01:23 PM enleth: Want to see them?
01:23 PM * roycroft just wants to be left in peace
01:23 PM roycroft: no, enleth
01:23 PM roycroft: I DO NOT GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT FREENODE POLITICS
01:23 PM roycroft: do you get that?
01:23 PM roycroft: do you understand that?
01:23 PM enleth: but you keep saying "libera just as bad"
01:24 PM enleth: Why?
01:24 PM roycroft: no, i don't keep saying it
01:24 PM roycroft: i've said what i have to day
01:24 PM roycroft: you keep bringing it up again
01:24 PM enleth: Even after being told that your premise is flawed
01:24 PM roycroft: please drop it
01:24 PM Tom_L: that or go to PM
01:24 PM roycroft: it seems you won't stop discussing this until i change my mind
01:24 PM roycroft: and i'm not going to do so
01:24 PM roycroft: because i don't care
01:24 PM Tom_L: doesn't belong here
01:25 PM roycroft: so please stop
01:25 PM roycroft: we'll just have to agree to disagree on this
01:27 PM enleth: the only reason I started explaining why the bots do what they do is because you reacted to jymmm in a way that definitely is bringing up this topic
01:28 PM enleth: so you say you don't care and don't want to talk about it, then still talk about it, then point out that you don't want to when someone responds
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: http://linuxgizmos.com/banana-pi-with-quad-a55-amlogic-s905x3-launches-at-61/ has an integrated microcontroller for software stepping
01:28 PM enleth: If you don't want to, then don't
01:29 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002661831086.html
01:29 PM roycroft: i hope that new microcontroller doesn't have any m***** or s**** pins
01:29 PM enleth: But if you do, don't be surprised if someone calls you out
01:29 PM * roycroft would rather not put enleth on /ignore, but may have to in order to maintain some semblence of harmony on the channel
01:31 PM CaptHindsight: gay master and queer servant pins, for trans-ferring data, take the power away from the words vs give them power
01:34 PM enleth: roycroft: FYI I've never, ever put anyone on ignore as I consider this way more insulting than even openly telling someone to fuck off
01:35 PM enleth: Just stick to your word of not wanting to talk about this, and don't - I won't have a reason to pick up the conversation
01:35 PM enleth: If it's not there to be picked y
01:36 PM enleth: *Up
01:36 PM enleth: All I did, twice, was respond, I did not bring it up on my own.
01:37 PM roycroft: i agree about /ignore being rude, but if you insist on poking me until i react, and i do not want to react, i may feel i need to resort to that
01:37 PM enleth: But I never poked, I responded.
01:39 PM enleth: Mostly because this is personal for me right now, as my community has been affected directly and in a disruptive manner
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: can't you just watch WWE or similar?
01:44 PM * roycroft has granted enleth the last wort, the penultimate word, the antepenultimate word, and the preantepenultimate word, and does not know what else he can do
01:45 PM enleth: roycroft: I'm not bringing this up, you're not bringing this up, we both stick to this. Deal?
01:46 PM roycroft: that is all i've asked for the past 20 minutes
01:47 PM enleth: didn't really look like it when jymmm posted those links, but I have no idea how to get that fact across so I'll stop trying
01:51 PM roycroft: it appears that only has mdf gone way up in price, it's now being made of unobtanium
01:51 PM roycroft: so it doesn't matter that it's gone up in price
01:52 PM roycroft: and thank goodness i don't use osb much these days
01:53 PM roycroft: when i was just trying to get a quote for mdf, i was told they do have osb, but a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" osb is $106
01:53 PM enleth: I would absolutely love to have a calm meta-discussion on why we seem to have a different impression of our argument, as it always pains me to "agree to disagree" (I see it as a failure to communicate on my part), but I imagine you don't have any eason to want to do that
01:54 PM roycroft: apparently i have to go to seattle to get mdf today
01:54 PM enleth: as for wood-derived product prices, this looks like it's a US thing
01:54 PM enleth: I haven't noticed a major increase here
01:54 PM roycroft: lumber has gone way up
01:54 PM roycroft: but manufactured wood products have gone to the moon
01:55 PM roycroft: there's apparently a shortage of resin
01:55 PM roycroft: i unfortunately need some manufactured wood products
01:55 PM roycroft: and don't want to wait several months for the price to go back down
01:56 PM roycroft: this is for some in-house projects, so there's no cost recovery option
01:58 PM enleth: I've seen someone on reddit say it's now cheaper for him to buy sheet steel and angle iron, buy a welder and pay for a welding lesson to make his stuff out of steel than to make it out of wood as originally planned
01:59 PM roycroft: that's somewhat of an exaggeration
01:59 PM enleth: This may have been a slight hyperbole, but at $100 for a sheet of OSB, maybe not that big
01:59 PM roycroft: but even if it were cheaper, i would not want to build these projects out of steel
02:00 PM roycroft: the one i'm working on right now is a roll-around cabinet for two sanding machines
02:00 PM roycroft: mdf is a good sound and vibration dampener
02:00 PM roycroft: steel would be unpleasant
02:01 PM roycroft: plus, it will have several drawers, and it's a lot easier to install drawers in a wood carcase than a metal carcase
02:02 PM roycroft: i was going to use 3/4" mdf for the project, but i would have to go to seattle to get it (a 5 hour drive each way)
02:02 PM roycroft: but i can still get 1/2" mdf locally, so i'll just use that, and sandwich two pieces together to get 1" total thickness, which will have better dampening capability than 3/4" anyway
02:03 PM roycroft: and the 1/2" stuff is about $24/sheet my cost, so not too bad
02:03 PM enleth: MDF in wood frame?
02:03 PM roycroft: it should be half that, but oh well
02:03 PM enleth: *on
02:03 PM roycroft: i'll make a solid wood face frame out of poplar
02:04 PM roycroft: but the sides and back will just be mdf
02:04 PM roycroft: if i join it with dowels it will be very sturdy
02:04 PM roycroft: i've done this many times
02:04 PM enleth: and quite heavy, it seems
02:05 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Bandsaw/
02:05 PM enleth: not a bad thing in this case
02:05 PM roycroft: that's the most recent one i made using that technique
02:05 PM enleth: it's even painted Wandel green
02:05 PM roycroft: it's a pleasant gree
02:05 PM roycroft: n
02:06 PM roycroft: much more pleasant than the forest green/hunter green that is so commonly used
02:07 PM enleth: BTW, you can get reasonable dampening in steel frames or plinths by using square tubing and filling it up with sand
02:11 PM enleth: that gets very heavy very fast and needs really heavy duty castes (or pallet jack cutouts) to be moved, though
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: embed steel or aluminum frames in epoxy granite/sand
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aBVAbfxLJw
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: Build Epoxy Granite Machine Base
02:20 PM roycroft: or just pay the piper and get the mdf
02:20 PM enleth: Sand-filled tubing is kinda this, but inside-out
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: inside and outside
02:20 PM roycroft: for what i'm doing mdf is really the correct choice
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: depends on your desired metal frame to epoxy/sand ratio
02:21 PM roycroft: for metalworking machines i do tend to build metal stands
02:21 PM roycroft: but for woodworking machines, mdf is usually best for me
02:22 PM roycroft: i built my lathe stand out of square steel tubing
02:22 PM roycroft: but i built the cabinets with drawers that fit in the stand out of mdf
02:23 PM roycroft: my new jointer sits really high, since i put it on a better mobile base, and i'm not terribly happy with that
02:24 PM roycroft: if ever have some spare time, i may replace the factory stand with a shop-made mdf one that sits lower
02:24 PM enleth: I have a lot of 120mm square tubing left over from making the base for the robot, planning to make a few grinder pedestals out of it, but still looking for a nice base
02:25 PM Tom_L: i need/want a decent 1" belt sander
02:25 PM roycroft: i'd recommend a 2"x72"
02:25 PM Tom_L: same bench space?
02:25 PM roycroft: you'll find a wider range of abrasives in that size
02:25 PM Tom_L: bench space is a premium here
02:25 PM roycroft: it doesn't need to take up a lot of extra space
02:26 PM enleth: Tom_L: if 2" is ok and you can weld, go for Jeremy Schmidt's design
02:26 PM roycroft: if you're looking at geting a 1"x30", those can be really compact
02:26 PM roycroft: that's what i made, enleth
02:26 PM Tom_L: 'can weld' is rather subjective :)
02:26 PM enleth: I'm finishing up mine
02:26 PM roycroft: but i build mine a few years ago, so it's his original design
02:26 PM roycroft: the new design is much improved
02:26 PM roycroft: but i'm not going to rebuild mine
02:26 PM Tom_L: i considered making one
02:27 PM enleth: Gen2 metric here, the design and instructions are fantastic
02:27 PM Tom_L: but haven't the foggiest idea on the design right now
02:27 PM roycroft: the problem is not really rebuilding the machine itself
02:27 PM roycroft: it's that the fixtures that i built for the old one won't fit on the new one
02:27 PM roycroft: so the tables and platen i'd have to remake
02:27 PM enleth: This thing is built like a tank, the video doesn't really properly convey how massive it is
02:28 PM roycroft: it's a great design
02:28 PM roycroft: and yes, it is built like a tank
02:28 PM roycroft: absolutely zero vibratin
02:28 PM roycroft: vibration
02:28 PM roycroft: it's overbuilt, but this is one of those rare cases where overbuilding is a feature
02:29 PM * roycroft notes that he and enleth don't disagree about everything :)
02:29 PM enleth: I'm fed up with grinders that shake themselves apart, so it's what I wanted
02:29 PM roycroft: i also built a stand for mine using jeremy's design
02:29 PM enleth: and it was cheap to build as I made my own pulleys
02:29 PM roycroft: i used 1-1/2" square tubing, and 1/4" steel plate for the top
02:29 PM roycroft: the stand is also built like a tank
02:29 PM Tom_L: what is used for the belt tracking?
02:30 PM roycroft: there's a crowned tracking wheel with an adjuster
02:30 PM enleth: Tom_L: power and tracking pulleys are crowned, tracking pulley is on a hinge
02:30 PM Tom_L: k
02:30 PM roycroft: the design of the tracking wheel changed significantly from v1 to v2
02:30 PM roycroft: and v2 is much better
02:31 PM roycroft: as i said, i'm not going to rebuild mine
02:31 PM roycroft: but if i were building a new one today, i would absolutely go with v2
02:31 PM roycroft: for one thing, v2 does not require making one's own tensioning spring
02:31 PM roycroft: which was one of the most difficult parts of the build for me
02:32 PM enleth: the platen attachment is much easier to build, too
02:32 PM roycroft: yes
02:32 PM roycroft: what i don't like about v2 is how high it sits on its legs
02:32 PM roycroft: the stand i built for v1 has a cutout in the back for the motor to swing down into
02:33 PM roycroft: and i don't mind that
02:33 PM enleth: that's trivial to change if you prefer the cutout stand
02:33 PM roycroft: i do wish mine stood a wee bit higher though
02:33 PM roycroft: i built the base exactly according to jeremy's plans, and i find that the belt snags on the mounting bolts when i install a new belt
02:33 PM enleth: Jeremy said he changed this because many people did mind the need for a special workbench
02:33 PM roycroft: if it were like 1" taller there would be plenty of clearance for that
02:34 PM roycroft: yeah, and i get that
02:34 PM roycroft: but
02:34 PM roycroft: 1. i wanted/needed storage for my belts, contact wheels, and tables
02:34 PM roycroft: and 2. i wanted some extra bench space anyway
02:34 PM roycroft: so it made sense to me to build a stand with a cutout in the back
02:35 PM Tom_L: he made it on hackaday
02:35 PM roycroft: it just happened to fit both a need and the available space perfectly
02:35 PM Tom_L: https://hackaday.com/2017/04/29/the-mother-of-all-belt-grinders/
02:36 PM roycroft: nice
02:36 PM enleth: I think the new plans even had a note to the effect of "look at gen1 if you want it lower and don't mind a special bench"
02:36 PM roycroft: i had spent several years studying belt grinder designs and trying to figure out what i wanted
02:36 PM roycroft: the minute i saw jeremy schmidt's design i knew that was the one
02:37 PM roycroft: the one feature of having the drivetrain rotating while the table stays stationary sold me
02:37 PM roycroft: and as far as i know, his is the only design that has that feature
02:38 PM roycroft: the hackaday article brings up that feature right away, i see
02:41 PM enleth: That was the same for me, one look at it and I knew this had been *designed*, not just fabricobbled together until it kinda worked
02:41 PM roycroft: tom_l: if your bench is fairly deep, the schmidt design won't take up a whole lot of real estate at the front of the bench
02:42 PM roycroft: enleth: i have a 10" serrated contact wheel and a small wheel set that i've never fabbed up to fit to the machine
02:42 PM roycroft: i was getting ready to finally do that when gen2 came out
02:42 PM roycroft: then i paused to think about whether i wanted to start over with gen2 or not
02:42 PM roycroft: 'cuz i did not want build those, and then immediately have to rebuild them
02:43 PM enleth: I'm probably going to start building a second one right away, using the first one to make parts look and fit much better
02:43 PM roycroft: one thing i found interesting in his discussion of gen2 is that he did not rebuild the radiusing table for it, as he found it unuseful
02:44 PM roycroft: i've wanted a radiusing table since day one
02:44 PM enleth: doesn't that table actually fit into gen2?
02:44 PM roycroft: but if i'm honest, a few years of using this one without that fixture has made me pretty skilled at making smooth radii
02:44 PM roycroft: no
02:45 PM roycroft: none of them do, afaik
02:45 PM roycroft: he altered the height of the platen, and that affected the way the tables mount
02:45 PM roycroft: i forget the details, but he discusses the changes
02:45 PM enleth: ah, ok
02:45 PM roycroft: i just had to replace the motor and vfd on mine
02:45 PM roycroft: like a week ago
02:45 PM roycroft: and the new motor is a lot shorter than the old one
02:46 PM roycroft: i had decided not to build a gen2 grinder, but now i'm rethinking that somewhat again
02:46 PM roycroft: i could make a smaller motor mount
02:46 PM roycroft: i could raise it an inch to get rid of that belt/bolt interference issue
02:46 PM enleth: short-legged gen2 then?
02:46 PM roycroft: and just as you said, i could use the gen1 machine to make the gen2 one look better
02:46 PM roycroft: yes
02:46 PM roycroft: i already have the stand with the cutout
02:47 PM roycroft: i could probably build it for about $150 in metal
02:47 PM buzzmarshall: the amlogic 905 x3's been around for awhile now and with amlogic and its closed source stuff are pretty much useless for gpio stuff unless you want to do a bunch of board level reworking
02:47 PM roycroft: and reuse most of the hardware
02:47 PM roycroft: enleth: one thing i did that jeremey does not do is use shoulder bolts with distorted thread lock nuts instead of generic hex bolts for the pivots
02:48 PM roycroft: i highly recommend doing that
02:48 PM roycroft: the hardware is more expensive, but it works better and looks better
02:48 PM enleth: I just turned some of the parts he made out of stock hardware
02:48 PM roycroft: that works too
02:49 PM roycroft: shoulder bolts are hardened, so i anticipate they'll last longer
02:49 PM roycroft: i just made a long table for edge sanding wood
02:49 PM roycroft: i wish i hadn't done that
02:49 PM roycroft: i have that, the stock table, a 45 degree table for welding prep, and the standard platen
02:49 PM enleth: He designed it to be buildable with an angle grinder and a cordless drill, which is cool, but that's no reason not to change the process to useba lathe
02:50 PM roycroft: those are the only accessories i've made to date
02:50 PM roycroft: so if i'm to build a gen2, now is the time
02:50 PM roycroft: before i do the radius table (if i even make it), adjustable angle table, and the arms for the small wheels and the 10" contact wheel
02:51 PM * roycroft thinks he'll buy the gen2 plans, study them, and decide
02:51 PM enleth: If I go through with the second unit, the first will probably get donated to another hackerspace in the area
02:51 PM roycroft: i could do that
02:51 PM roycroft: that's actually a really good idea
02:57 PM roycroft: that's making me lean towards rebuilding the grinder, dammit
02:58 PM roycroft: i don't have time for this :)
02:59 PM roycroft: and donating the old one would make the new one more expensive, as i would not be able to cannibalise the old one as much as i'd like
02:59 PM roycroft: i don't want to give the makerspace a pile of welded metal - i want to give them a belt grinder that just needs a motor and a vfd
03:25 PM JT-Shop: well that was tough... 4 whole rungs of code
03:46 PM JT-Shop: lol it cost them $56.25 per line of code... well I did help wire up the PLC
03:58 PM Tom_L: good you earned your keep today
04:24 PM roycroft: *chuckle*
04:24 PM roycroft: and now my boss is all pissed off at me again
04:24 PM roycroft: he has a customer who needs some cad work done and asked me if i'd be interested
04:24 PM roycroft: i said "sure, but i don't have time to do that right now"
04:25 PM roycroft: he said "oh, i mean on off-hours, not during the normal work day"
04:25 PM roycroft: and i said "sure, i can do that, and i'll bill them directly"
04:25 PM roycroft: and he said "no, this is a company job - they'll be paying me, not you"
04:26 PM roycroft: and i said "well i'm not going to do it off-hours if i'm not getting paid"
04:26 PM roycroft: that's what pissed him off
04:27 PM * roycroft wonders how people can even begin to think that's acceptable behavior
04:35 PM Vq: roycroft: Is this your employer?
04:36 PM roycroft: yes
04:37 PM Tom_L: i think you should just do him a favor
04:37 PM roycroft: his thinking is that since it's his customer and they called him, i should do all the work and he should get all the money
04:37 PM roycroft: i'd have been happy to give him a commission or referral fee
04:39 PM Tom_L: let him do it
04:39 PM Tom_L: what cad do you use at work?
04:40 PM roycroft: we don't have cad software at work
04:40 PM roycroft: i personally own the cad software
04:40 PM Tom_L: you use use fusion or something else?
04:40 PM roycroft: no, i have great modern tools
04:41 PM roycroft: autocad 2008 and solidworks 2012
04:41 PM Tom_L: what?
04:41 PM Tom_L: k
04:41 PM roycroft: :)
04:41 PM Tom_L: just curious what you used
04:41 PM Tom_L: i don't like acad
04:41 PM roycroft: that's what i use
04:41 PM Tom_L: sw is ok but i prefer catia
04:41 PM roycroft: and i don't upgrade because i have no need to do so
04:41 PM Tom_L: same with my cad cam
04:41 PM roycroft: i'm not even sure if i could do this cad job with those tools
04:42 PM Tom_L: it's very old but very functional too
04:42 PM Tom_L: what type of part?
04:42 PM roycroft: i don't know the details
04:42 PM roycroft: i was told it's a "schematic drawing"
04:42 PM roycroft: but i know the customer
04:43 PM roycroft: they make solar-powered stoves and ovens that are easy to make out of common materials
04:43 PM roycroft: they ship the design to third-world countries
04:44 PM roycroft: so this "schematic drawing" is likely not an electrial schematic
04:44 PM Tom_L: doesn't sound like it
04:45 PM roycroft: i've never used catia
04:45 PM roycroft: my very limited impression of it is that it's similar to solidworks, but a lot more feature-rich
04:46 PM roycroft: and scales to large projects like jet airplanes better than solidworks
04:46 PM Tom_L: i took a couple classes on it and really like it, my kids both took alot more than i did
04:46 PM Tom_L: that about sizes it up yes
04:46 PM Tom_L: put out by the same company
04:46 PM roycroft: the price tag is also scaled up accordingly
04:46 PM roycroft: yes, both by d'assault systems
04:47 PM roycroft: solidworks was overkill for what i was doing
04:47 PM roycroft: i probably could have just upgraded autocad to 2010 or so and would have been fine
04:47 PM roycroft: i needed some fairly basic 3d features
04:47 PM roycroft: and there is limited 3d capability in autocad 2008
04:48 PM roycroft: much more starting in autocad 2010
04:48 PM Tom_L: most of what i do i just draw in my cad cam, once in a while i'll bring something in from catia
04:48 PM roycroft: but i was doing civil engineering drawings at the time
04:48 PM roycroft: underground utilities
04:48 PM roycroft: mostly 2d worked
04:48 PM Tom_L: acad would likely be better for that
04:48 PM roycroft: yes
04:49 PM roycroft: where there were a lot of utilities converging in one spot, which is common near intersections and near utility vaults, we needed some 3d views
04:49 PM Tom_L: i did a little bit with table driven parameters etc just to get a feel for it
04:50 PM roycroft: when you have a dozen conduits literally on top of each other it's hard to render them in 2d in a way that contractors will understand
04:50 PM roycroft: with a typical 2d drawing, even exploded out into a detail, you end up with a big fat blob of a line instead of all the individual utilities
04:51 PM roycroft: and even if you do an elevation view, they're often in in the same horizontal plane, packed close together
04:52 PM roycroft: solidworks was never a good solution for that though
04:52 PM roycroft: it's just not designed to do that easily
04:52 PM roycroft: that was a $5k investement that really did not pay off
04:53 PM roycroft: but it's nice for the mechanical stuff i'm doing now
04:53 PM Tom_L: i've never looked at that part of catia but i think it handles it
04:53 PM Tom_L: i know you can do wiring etc with it
04:53 PM roycroft: i'd bet it does
04:53 PM Tom_L: i never have
04:53 PM roycroft: airplanes have a lot of hydraulic lines
04:53 PM roycroft: and everything it packed in tightly in an airplane
04:54 PM Tom_L: any more it's pretty much used exclusively around here
04:54 PM roycroft: anyway, i never ended up using solidworks all that much
04:54 PM Tom_L: years back a few factories used cadam
04:54 PM roycroft: and when i bought it, the nearest school that had solidworks classes at night was in portland
04:55 PM roycroft: oregon state university, up in corvallis (45 minutes from here) have solidworks classes, but only during the day
04:55 PM roycroft: portland is a 2 hour drive each way
04:55 PM roycroft: so i never took solidworks classes
04:55 PM roycroft: i did take autocad classes, and am fairly adept with autocad
04:55 PM Tom_L: i don't even know if the vo'tech here teaches solidworks
04:55 PM Tom_L: they're big on catia
04:56 PM roycroft: so i find myself falling back to autocad for most things i draw these days, even 3d parts
04:56 PM Tom_L: they teach autocad and mastercam as well
04:56 PM roycroft: well i'm not even going to think about catia
04:56 PM Tom_L: no point really
04:57 PM roycroft: i've been spending a little time with freecad lately, and if i need to do parametric drawings it will probably work for me, once i figure it out
04:57 PM roycroft: and once they decide on an assembly workbench :)
04:57 PM Tom_L: i dunno if sw has ft&a or not but that's big in the factories here as they're going paperless
04:57 PM roycroft: so, maybe like 10 years after i'm dead, if that second qualifier is a real show stopper
04:58 PM Tom_L: functional toleranceing & annotation
04:58 PM Tom_L: done in layers for the various trades etc
04:58 PM Tom_L: can be limited access
04:59 PM roycroft: i don't keep up with solidworks features, so i don't know if they've implemented it or not
05:00 PM roycroft: and i'm not very familiar with ft&a, other than knowing the acronym
05:00 PM roycroft: i think it's some kind of standards-based dimensioning/documentation system
05:01 PM roycroft: but i'm not even sure about that
05:10 PM Tom_L: it is
05:12 PM roycroft: i wish there were a standard for naming/managing layers that people would actually use
05:13 PM roycroft: one of the big problems i always had with autocad was getting drawings with like 1200 layers on them, because every company has its own layer template, and whenever they get a file to work on they overlay their layers on top of all the existing layers
05:14 PM Tom_L: eagle, pads and the like do for electronic schematics
05:14 PM roycroft: pass that file around to a dozen companies and you get a whole buttload of layers
05:14 PM Tom_L: yeah
05:14 PM roycroft: and with all the government work i was doing, drawings did get passed around to a lot of different companies
05:14 PM Tom_L: time consuming figuring out which ones you actually need
05:14 PM roycroft: yup
05:15 PM roycroft: the answer to that problem was not to standardize
05:15 PM JT-Shop: spammers banned, messages deleted, rest marked read... time for a glass of vino with the chickens
05:15 PM Tom_L: we were doing some parts that went on a wing and were sent the whole wing asembly once
05:15 PM roycroft: it was to buy bigger computers for the cad people and stuff oodles of ram in the machines
06:26 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:34 PM skunkworks: The turco is running the printer port and the rotary axis toped out at like 6 rpm.. (which isn't bad - totally usable.
06:35 PM skunkworks: I was playing with the green machine with mesa stepgen - It was going fast enough that the rotory axis was vibrating around the table...
06:35 PM skunkworks: (wasn't bolted down yet)
06:35 PM skunkworks: so jitter does make a difference.. ;)
06:49 PM * skunkworks needs to balance it
07:14 PM Tom_L: cool
07:44 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, https://photos.app.goo.gl/1ejmwQjHGskbBvob9
07:45 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:49 PM Bleepshop: JT-Shop: That's funny, one of the things I need to do to find a piece of >10mm or thicker acrylic/lexan big enough to make a new window for our chickenhouse. I want to edgelight it and have it read "Casa de Pollos. Food, Fun, Dancing" with some carvings like an old saloon.