#linuxcnc Logs
May 25 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:00 AM mrec_: is there a way to temporarily disable the M6 remapping?
01:07 AM mrec_: I have one program where I'd prefer to use the tool table offset instead m6 however, other programs should still use the remapping
01:12 AM mrec_: maybe M61 and M0
01:12 AM CaptHindsight: last coat finally on https://i.imgur.com/NyaYy1W.jpg
01:12 AM XXCoder: sparky
01:13 AM CaptHindsight: now for assembly and + 2 days of buffing and polishing
01:22 AM roycroft: nice paint job
01:22 AM CaptHindsight: was near 90F today
01:22 AM CaptHindsight: had the AC on to cool it down
01:22 AM CaptHindsight: i prefer to lay down base and clear when it's <70F
01:35 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-norfolk-57180904 Deaf campaigner calls for clear mask research
01:36 AM CaptHindsight: ps
01:37 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeVaFuzct4M
01:37 AM CaptHindsight: problem solved
01:37 AM XXCoder: hah
01:38 AM XXCoder: try to lipread that :P
01:52 AM CaptHindsight: "ha ha ho hoooh haha hoha
01:53 AM XXCoder: cheater
02:56 AM rs[m]: mrec_: what does M6 have to do with tool offsets
04:01 AM Tom_L: morning
04:44 AM mrec_: rs[m]: I'm remapping M6 for measuring automatic measuring of the tool offset
04:45 AM mrec_: I usually measure if I need 4-5 tools, but if I only need 2 tools I prefer to use the table
04:45 AM mrec_: I'm now just using M61, G43 and M0
05:35 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by tildes.freenode.net
05:39 AM c-log is now known as Guest31543
06:47 AM jymmmm: morning
07:07 AM jthornton: morning
07:09 AM Tom_L: morning
07:09 AM XXCoder: morning
07:15 AM mrec_: hmm I have had the situation with linuxcnc 2.9 that G1 command just stopped all operations without any error
07:15 AM mrec_: after adding the feed rate it continued
07:16 AM mrec_: but even during the runtime the "play" button in linuxcnc was not toggled
07:16 AM mrec_: the job stopped after some time again, so I just restarted linuxcnc
07:16 AM jthornton: master is always subject to breaking...
07:30 AM jthornton: Tom_L, do you have a 7i80?
07:32 AM mrec_: certainly but I'm sure that no one committed code for breaking it so the issue should still be there.
07:32 AM Tom_L: yessir
07:32 AM mrec_: is there any problem known if defect g-code is loaded, and reloaded with fixed g-code?
07:32 AM Tom_L: not on the mill
07:32 AM jthornton: is there any trick to connecting to it? a chap on the forum can't but it looks ok to me
07:32 AM mrec_: could damaged g-code cause any issue (if linuxcnc already found out it's damaged)?
07:33 AM Tom_L: connecting which way? there are 3
07:33 AM jthornton: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/42659-connect-to-7i80
07:33 AM mrec_: the question is ... is the g-code parser solid or are there any issues known with it?
07:33 AM Tom_L: it's been a while...
07:33 AM jthornton: I've never had an issue with the parser since 2.1
07:33 AM Tom_L: i think the default is the 192.
07:34 AM Tom_L: i can look when i get back later if i need to
07:34 AM jthornton: ok
07:35 AM Tom_L: i forget which is the default ip now
07:35 AM Tom_L: make sure he's not on 10.10.10.10 on both ends :)
07:36 AM Tom_L: and some take the 10.10.10.10/24 ? for the net mask now too
07:36 AM Tom_L: i forget the exact syntax
07:37 AM Tom_L: oh on the rpi i think you do it that way
07:37 AM jthornton: yea I think the /24 is needed on the rpi
07:37 AM Tom_L: that might be it
07:38 AM Tom_L: i didn't edit any file on the rpi, just using the gui for that
07:39 AM jthornton: it's been a while for me too
07:39 AM Tom_L: i can hook it up later if that doesn't get it
07:39 AM jthornton: I won't know till I get home
07:39 AM Tom_L: i'm out the door
07:39 AM jthornton: k
07:40 AM Tom_L: i bet that's it though
07:40 AM Tom_L: i assumed rpi4 also
07:41 AM Tom_L: the chips are different on it iirc
07:51 AM tirex: Hi, I have a small linuxcnc issue: After setup stepper with mm units, I check my configuration in linuxcnc application. When I manually move my axis with jog velocity speed as 600mm/s then units on my linuxcnc display change like 1mm/s instead of 10mm/s and my machine actually move like 10mm/s. What could be the problem?
07:51 AM jthornton: what gui?
07:53 AM tirex: And when I'm using gcode with mm units like 100mm (100) then my stepper moves about 1000mm
07:53 AM tirex: default gui
07:53 AM jthornton: there is no default gui
07:53 AM jthornton: sounds like your scale is wrong
07:56 AM tirex: axis gui
07:59 AM tirex: which options/parameters I should to check?
08:04 AM miss0r2: I just installed a gas alarm on my RV. I used the same wires that feeds the water pump... Turns out the noise comming from the water pump makes the gas sensor restart and do a 5-sec sound test each time.. That makes it kind of hard to sneak a glass of water in the middle of the night without waking up the family. *sigh*
08:15 AM jthornton: tirex, check the scale in your ini, depending on how you created the config the exact wording may be different
08:16 AM jthornton: miss0r2, that's weird
08:16 AM jthornton: can you put a dc to dc converter in between
08:17 AM miss0r2: yup. I've measured the voltage. It only drops 0.4 volts from 13.7 to 13.3
08:17 AM jthornton: wow and that little drop resets the alarm?
08:17 AM miss0r2: I could... Or I could perhaps put in a cap to try'n filter out the noise a bit
08:18 AM miss0r2: I wouldn't think its the drop. I'm thinking it has something to do with the noise from the brushed motor in the pump
08:18 AM jthornton: I wonder if there is some kind of wave that you can't see with a multimeter
08:18 AM miss0r2: I measured it with a scope, to test if my multimeter got it right
08:18 AM miss0r2: and that is when I saw the spikes
08:18 AM jthornton: ah
08:19 AM miss0r2: Perhaps I can just add a cap and be done with it :D
08:19 AM jthornton: be worth a try
08:19 AM miss0r2: I don't want to route a new set of wires to it.. its not realy easy to get there
08:20 AM jthornton: one of my bigger quads I had to put caps on each motor across the two wires
08:20 AM jthornton: to reduce the noise
08:21 AM miss0r2: Yeah. Those can be noisy. It just somewhat baffles me that the pump manufactures haven't done anything to midigate this
08:21 AM miss0r2: 10.000uF should do it....
08:21 AM miss0r2: I'll see if I have something a bit smaller
08:22 AM jthornton: last day on the road for us, be back home with the chickens today
08:22 AM miss0r2: Good on you :)
08:22 AM miss0r2: long trip?
08:23 AM jthornton: not too long left home Thursday
08:23 AM jthornton: only 3.5 hours to the house from here so an easy last day
08:23 AM miss0r2: not too bad
08:24 AM miss0r2: damnit. I don't seem to have any 'small' caps
08:24 AM miss0r2: the small ones I have are REALY small
08:34 AM tirex: jthornton the value of scale looks like steps per mm
08:34 AM tirex: And I don't know what I can change here because configuration is similar to my old mach3 configuration which was good
08:37 AM jthornton: are your units set to mm in the G code?
08:37 AM jthornton: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g20-g21
08:39 AM jthornton: in the MDI window what happens if you issue G21 G0 X0 then X100
09:20 AM tirex: okay, I checked and the problem was with scale
09:22 AM tirex: I'm looking for gcode exporter from plt or dxf files with option to change corner of base point. Are you able to recommend one to me?
09:23 AM tirex: and thanks jthornton
09:40 AM Rab: tirex, Inkscape with the gcodetools extension should be able to do that, although the workflow may take some effort to figure out. FreeCAD can open DXF and run CAM with the Path workbench, but I haven't used it.
09:47 AM veegee: I need to readjust my tailstock after rebuilding it
09:47 AM veegee: Apparently the way to do that is with a gauge pin between centres
09:48 AM veegee: So now I need to buy a big gauge pin and make a centre for the headstock
09:48 AM roycroft: turn a piece of rod between centers and measure the taper
09:49 AM veegee: Yeah the rod has to be precision ground though doesn't it?
09:49 AM roycroft: no
09:49 AM roycroft: you turn it between centers and measure the taper
09:49 AM veegee: Ah ok
09:50 AM roycroft: and you can use a 3 jaw chuck for this
09:50 AM veegee: Oh so you keep turning it until the taper goes away
09:50 AM roycroft: turn the center in the chuck and don't remove it until you're done adjusting the tail stock
09:50 AM roycroft: which is the standard thing to do when turning between centers
09:50 AM roycroft: you true the headstock center every time you use it
09:51 AM veegee: I don't have a headstock center
09:51 AM roycroft: and yes, you can keep turning it until there is no taper
09:51 AM roycroft: you make one
09:51 AM veegee: I guess a center punch will do
09:51 AM roycroft: huh?
09:51 AM roycroft: that's hardened
09:51 AM roycroft: how are you going to turn it?
09:51 AM veegee: Already did
09:52 AM roycroft: not while mounted in the chuck
09:52 AM roycroft: for the current operation
09:52 AM roycroft: just take a piece of 19mm or so round bar about 100mm long
09:52 AM roycroft: turn a shoulder on it
09:52 AM roycroft: flip it around and remount it
09:52 AM roycroft: turn a point on it
09:53 AM roycroft: don't touch the chuck
09:53 AM roycroft: now it's perfectly centered
09:53 AM veegee: Ok yeah I did that, but instead of a 19mm round bar, I used a center punch
09:53 AM veegee: Yes it's hardened, but it turned fine with carbide inserts
09:55 AM veegee: But yeah I get the process you're explaining
09:55 AM roycroft: it should take about 3 goes to get the tailstock lined up closely
09:55 AM veegee: What if the tailstock has a vertical offset? It has adjustment screws for lateral sliding (in the same way the cross slide moves) and screws for adjusting angle on the same plane
09:55 AM veegee: But nothing to adjust vertical tilt or height adjustment
09:56 AM veegee: Only way I can see that happening is putting in shims
09:56 AM roycroft: that's much more difficult to measure and fix
09:56 AM veegee: I don't think it does, just considering the possibility
09:57 AM roycroft: if you have a good center for the tailstock, turn your headstock center like i described above
09:57 AM roycroft: get a 150mm rule
09:57 AM roycroft: gently hold it vertically between the headstock center and tailstock center
09:57 AM roycroft: if it remains vertical you're pretty much good to go
09:57 AM veegee: Got it, will do, thank you!
09:58 AM roycroft: that's not dead accurate, but it's accurate enough for most work
09:59 AM * jthornton heads home
12:11 PM skunkwor1s is now known as skunkworks
12:11 PM skunkworks: yay
12:12 PM skunkworks: linux is awesome
12:12 PM skunkworks: screen /dev/ttyUSB0 115200
12:12 PM skunkworks: ^ so simple and easy...
12:14 PM Tom_L: :)
12:14 PM Tom_L: got my spindle working nice yesterday
12:14 PM skunkworks: I saw the video
12:14 PM skunkworks: what are your tuning parameters for the pid?
12:17 PM Tom_L: i changed 3 in the vfd and a handfull in linuxcnc
12:18 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, very last page for the vfd: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/NEW_MILL_SHOP_2.8.1/New_Mill_IO_Pinout.pdf
12:18 PM Tom_L: setp pid.0.Pgain 2.20
12:18 PM Tom_L: setp pid.0.Igain 4.5
12:18 PM Tom_L: setp pid.0.FF0 1.0
12:18 PM Tom_L: setp pid.0.FF1 1.0
12:19 PM Tom_L: for lcnc analog out
12:20 PM Tom_L: KP 870 KI 100 and the scale from 12000 to 5934 in the vfd
12:21 PM Tom_L: wasn't quite getting a full 10v out is why the scale is an odd number
12:22 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure what they had in mind with the 12000
12:28 PM roycroft: well, that's that
12:28 PM roycroft: i'm not going back to libera.chat
12:28 PM roycroft: i hope this channel doesn't end up migrating there
12:28 PM Tom_L: pray tell why?
12:28 PM Tom_L: oh i missed the "not"
12:28 PM Tom_L: several have moved their stuff to dalnet
12:28 PM roycroft: 1. some folks on other channels on freenode that i use refuse to help people here, and insist that they go to libera.chat
12:29 PM roycroft: 2. i keep getting privmsgs from bots telling me that freenode is "abusive" and that i must go to libera.chat
12:29 PM Tom_L: i'm gonna hold out a while and wait for the shxx to settle
12:29 PM Tom_L: roycroft, they are coming from the freenode owners
12:30 PM roycroft: to me it seems like any "abuse" is coming from the libera tribe, not the freenode tribe
12:30 PM roycroft: trying to coerce me to leave this network and join the other one
12:30 PM Tom_L: it's hard to say but there have been issues for years
12:30 PM roycroft: i'm not taking kindly to that
12:30 PM roycroft: i put a client on libera.chat for a while to see how things were going to unfold
12:31 PM roycroft: i just killed that client
12:31 PM Tom_L: well i got set up on that and riot and neither one are active here
12:31 PM roycroft: while i get caught up in national politics, i have zero taste for irc politics
12:31 PM Tom_L: hahaha
12:32 PM roycroft: and if i'm honest, very little taste for national politics any more
12:32 PM roycroft: i don't care what side you're on, just be decent and treat people kindly
12:32 PM roycroft: that's mainly what i care about these days
12:43 PM Tom_L: pcw_home, do you know what OS that guy on the forum is using? now that i reread it, it looks like he's trying to go from a rpi to a pc as the host
12:44 PM Tom_L: doesn't look like he has it set up though
12:45 PM Tom_L: not sure what eno1 is unless that's a typo for eth1
12:51 PM veegee: Whatever the hell happened to QNX neutrino?
12:51 PM veegee: I loved messing around with QNX4 and QNX6 when it was "open source"
12:51 PM veegee: Such a great real time OS
12:53 PM Tom_L: the loch ness monster at it
12:53 PM Tom_L: ate
12:53 PM veegee: aka business assholes
12:53 PM veegee: they ruin everything
12:59 PM roycroft: nessie does nae fancy neutrinos
12:59 PM roycroft: she's a particular lass
01:20 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:26 PM * JT-Cave is home now
01:36 PM jymmmm: any suggestions on an adhesive to mount granite tile to a steel plate that might be under 4ft of snow seasonally?
01:43 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, https://www.scigripadhesives.com/
01:45 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: thanks but their selector doesn't mention stone
01:45 PM Tom_L: yeah i see
01:46 PM roycroft: not a specific product, but granite has less than half the linear expansion coefficient compared to steel, so i'd definitely use something flexible
01:46 PM Tom_L: When bonding steel to granite, steel to quartz, steel to solid surface and other countertop surfaces, the best options are SCIGRIP adhesives. ... These methacrylate adhesives will form a strong bond where epoxy and urethane based products will not, such as slightly oily metal surfaces.
01:46 PM Tom_L: https://gluewarehouse.com/products/bonding_results/granite/steel
01:46 PM roycroft: i'm assuming that where there will be 4 feet of snow seasonally there will be a lot of seasonal temperature variation
01:47 PM Tom_L: same company
01:47 PM roycroft: that product discusses bonding countertops
01:47 PM roycroft: thermal expension is not usually an issue with countertops
01:48 PM Tom_L: might be worth a call to them
01:48 PM roycroft: expansion
01:48 PM roycroft: yes
01:48 PM roycroft: if the stuff sets up like concrete the granite could easily crack when it gets really cold or hot
01:49 PM Tom_L: https://adiseal.com/stick-stone/
01:51 PM Tom_L: if it sounds too good to be true it probably is
01:53 PM drdoc: we were discussing hammer wrenches the other day....
01:53 PM drdoc: https://www.allsurplus.com/asset/1532/12796
01:54 PM drdoc: veegee: QNX is still alive & well. QNX 6 was never open source. It was trial-ware and afaik, never cracked for full use
02:03 PM rs[m]: https://blog.adafruit.com/2021/05/17/siemens-acquires-supplyframe-hackaday-tindie-too/
02:04 PM drdoc: Tom_L: this is one of my dream items:
02:04 PM drdoc: https://www.springer.com/us/book/9783319554105
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: granite to steel depends on the loads and stress
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: if water gets between the two and freezes that is different than thermal expansion/contraction
03:49 PM roycroft: the grout is supposed to take care of that
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: you assume
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: he makes no deatils of how they are attached to each other
03:50 PM roycroft: he also did not ask about water
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: he didn't ask about a lot of things
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: he gave nearly no info
03:51 PM roycroft: correct
03:51 PM roycroft: and i did not offer a complete answer, either
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: use some kinda bonding stuff, that'll work
03:52 PM roycroft: i just pointed out a critical consideration that is likely ignored as irrelevant by adhesive manufacturers for most use cases
03:53 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: your mind reading skills are much better than mine
03:53 PM roycroft: he said it will be under 4 feet of snow for a good part of the year
03:54 PM roycroft: that tells me this is an external application, and where he lives there are extreme temperature swings over the course of a year
03:54 PM Tom_L: well insulated then :)
03:55 PM * roycroft knows where jymmm lives, and the climate there
03:56 PM Tom_L: yeah
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: I'd use nothing other than mass for 100kg of steel plate 20cm thick placed on a granite slab 1 km^3
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: same for the other way around
03:56 PM roycroft: you still would want to keep water from getting between the two materials
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: i don't
03:57 PM CaptHindsight: maybe he does
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: my application is decorative and oxides are parts of the allure
03:58 PM * roycroft decides the conersation has moved on to the utterly ridiculous, and goes back to focusing on things that are only somewhat ridiculous
03:59 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:37 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:39 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:11 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:30 PM Tom_L: pre vfd tuning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7PcbEKrtkI
07:30 PM Tom_L: after vfd tuning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trzO8H6tKW8
08:20 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:30 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:35 PM roycroft: my new sander disc arrived today
08:36 PM roycroft: this one has 0.007" runout
08:36 PM roycroft: that's at the very outer edge of the disc
08:36 PM roycroft: i was hoping for 0.005", but i think i can live with this
08:36 PM Tom_L: i'm guessin you may have to unless you can true it up
08:37 PM roycroft: well i could return the machine
08:37 PM Tom_L: on the flat?
08:37 PM Tom_L: the paper will vary that much
08:37 PM roycroft: yes, it probably will
08:37 PM roycroft: especially the abrasives for this machine
08:38 PM roycroft: i think the adhesive alone is >0.010" thick
08:39 PM roycroft: the old disc won't fit on the motor i was thinking of putting it on
08:39 PM Tom_L: why not?
08:39 PM roycroft: i'm trying to sort out what grizzly/shopfox did when they designed the thing
08:39 PM roycroft: the bore is 14.93mm in diameter
08:39 PM roycroft: not 15.00mm
08:40 PM roycroft: the motor shaft is 5/8"
08:40 PM roycroft: so i can bore it out to fit
08:40 PM roycroft: and probably get rid of the runout by boring it straight
08:40 PM roycroft: but who builds motors with ~14.93 shafts?
08:41 PM roycroft: i measured three times, because i could not believe the number i was getting
08:41 PM Tom_L: it's a slip fit tolerance
08:41 PM roycroft: no, it's a very tight interference fit tolereance
08:41 PM roycroft: because the bore on the disc is <15mm
08:41 PM roycroft: yet it fits the motor shaft fine
08:42 PM Tom_L: ok
08:42 PM roycroft: so the motor shaft is also <15mm
08:42 PM roycroft: and it's a tight slip fit
08:42 PM roycroft: as in difficult to remove the disc
08:43 PM roycroft: but there are 2 m6 holes bored and tapped in the center of the disc, so i was able to insert some m6 screws and pull it off that way
08:44 PM roycroft: when i kept getting that weird number i went over to the motor i want to use and measured the shaft, and those same calipers measured 0.6245"
08:44 PM roycroft: so i'm pretty sure the calipers are accurate
09:00 PM _unreal_: what the hell are yall doing here? I thought we are all jumping server ship
09:04 PM Tom_L: not without a life jacket
09:20 PM roycroft: i don't think many freenode users are moving
09:20 PM roycroft: mostly disgruntled management
09:22 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:23 PM Rab: All the freenode channels I'm in are mirrored at libera.chat, many of the same users are registered and idling there. But I think inertia will keep the actual chatting here unless freenode outright fails on a technical level.
09:24 PM roycroft: there are still close to 70,000 users on freenode
09:24 PM roycroft: and last i checked, less than 14,000 on libera
09:24 PM roycroft: and it was the same situation with me
09:24 PM Tom_L: a good percent are lurkers or bots
09:24 PM roycroft: most of the channels i'm on here are also set up there
09:24 PM roycroft: but not much chatting is going on there
09:25 PM Rab: Well, I do know a couple of small but highly political channels which left in a rage and probably aren't coming back.
09:25 PM roycroft: "political rage" seems to be the key operative when discussing libera
09:25 PM Tom_L: well that's what they do isn't it?
09:30 PM Rab: I wonder if either side has some kind of rule against bridging freenode+libera channels.
09:31 PM Tom_L: i dare you try :)
09:31 PM norias: haha
09:40 PM roycroft: there's a good chance the overlord of each network will commit a hostile takeover of the channel on their own respective networks and use it to disseminate horrible propoganda about the other network
09:40 PM roycroft: and the former owner of the channel will be reduced to tears
09:40 PM roycroft: at least that's what i hear each side saying about the other side's behavior
09:42 PM norias: well, luckily everyone here are machinists of some stripe
09:42 PM norias: because machinists are never prone to emotional outbursts or drama
09:43 PM roycroft: or at least play machinists on irc
09:43 PM Tom_L: norias, not the ones with all 10 digits
09:44 PM norias: Tom_L, you know...
09:44 PM norias: I have all 10 digits
09:44 PM norias: just one of them is permanently crooked
09:44 PM norias: i will note that it wasn't a machining incident
09:44 PM norias: it was a landscaping incident
09:45 PM Tom_L: :)
09:45 PM norias: and i will never perform landscaping again
09:45 PM norias: it is amazing that after over a decade of machining, traveling to some sketchy places and participating in a war
09:46 PM norias: it was some garden implement that permanently deformed part of me
09:46 PM norias: lesson learned. leave the landscaping to pros. shit's dangerous.
09:46 PM Tom_L: you weren't expecting it
09:47 PM XXCoder: roycroft: ubuntu just moved
09:47 PM XXCoder: other linux channel is planning to now
09:47 PM Tom_L: i think ppl are getting excited over not that much
09:48 PM XXCoder: odd thing though
09:48 PM XXCoder: freenode new staff is considering changing law so using libera in title is considering spamming, even if topic is changed by owner of channel
09:48 PM Tom_L: they can duel each other for all i care as long as i can still chat here
09:49 PM XXCoder: *considered as
09:52 PM Tom_L: if i were founder here and had to choose, i'd move to a completely neutral network
09:53 PM Tom_L: especially not one that drew a battle line in the sand
09:53 PM XXCoder: me, ill just follow staff
09:53 PM XXCoder: they did very good job foir decade
09:53 PM Tom_L: i moved here ages ago from chatjunkies because it was falling apart
09:54 PM Tom_L: been so long i even forgot why now
09:55 PM Tom_L: those channels survived the move just fine
09:56 PM Tom_L: until it directly affects me i likely won't do anything
09:57 PM Tom_L: it was however kinda fun ddosing rucas long time back
09:57 PM Tom_L: kinda pissed him off a bit
09:58 PM roycroft: my impression so far is that the management on libra.chat are at least as bad as they claim management on freenode are
09:59 PM XXCoder: in what way
09:59 PM flyback: <Tom_L> it was however kinda fun ddosing rucas long time back
09:59 PM roycroft: i'm rather annoyed that so many channels are so wrapped up in this political bullshit that they won't tolerate on-topic discussions in the channels - all they want is for people to declare loyalty to one network or the other
10:00 PM flyback: wow
10:00 PM flyback: congrats
10:00 PM Tom_L: you missed out on that?
10:00 PM roycroft: and to move to the one they declare as the legitimate one
10:00 PM flyback: yes
10:00 PM flyback: I know rucas btw
10:00 PM Tom_L: i'm sure you are buddies
10:00 PM flyback: not exactely
10:00 PM XXCoder: who is rucas
10:00 PM Tom_L: an asshole
10:00 PM flyback: hacker from efnet
10:00 PM flyback: how the hell did you ddos him
10:01 PM Tom_L: i don't remember now but rue was in on it
10:01 PM Tom_L: several of us
10:01 PM flyback: wiw didn't think you guys had it in you
10:01 PM XXCoder: younger, more hotblooded
10:02 PM Tom_L: back an animal in a corner and watch it's demeanor change
10:07 PM roycroft: xxcoder: i was on two other channels on freenode, asking technical questions within the scope of the channel, and was told to move to libre.chat
10:07 PM roycroft: hardly anyone was on those channels on libre.chat, and nobody was talking on them at all
10:07 PM XXCoder: i leave here as soon as it gets busy enough. i left 3 channels so far
10:08 PM XXCoder: fairly soon 4th
10:08 PM CaptHindsight: well the Discord LCNC sever owner won't bridge to LCNC on matrix
10:08 PM roycroft: on one other channel, the same kind of thing happened, except the channel ops started spewing hateful stories about the new "owners", and they reprogrammed their bot to order anyone who speaks on the channel to go to libre.chat
10:08 PM CaptHindsight: lots of petty tyranny
10:09 PM XXCoder: none of channels i was in was like that
10:09 PM XXCoder: just "we have moved" an thats it
10:09 PM Tom_L: i'll wait til they run outta piss
10:09 PM roycroft: i'm not going to leave one network because of the alleged actions of some alleged asshole because real people who are real assholes are orering me to do so
10:09 PM roycroft: and i'm certainly not going to move to the network that is run by those real assholes
10:09 PM roycroft: everything they say about the guy who is in charge of freenode now may be true
10:10 PM roycroft: i've no evidence that it is or it isn't
10:10 PM XXCoder: channels owners arent admins of servers in general
10:10 PM XXCoder: exception being server channel of course
10:10 PM CaptHindsight: IRC is for old people anyway
10:10 PM roycroft: but the behavior of the folks trying to force everyone to leave freenode makes me want to have nothing at all to do with libre.chat
10:10 PM XXCoder: yes, old captain
10:10 PM CaptHindsight: in 30-40 more years nobody will care
10:10 PM roycroft: i shut down my client that was on libre.chat earlier today, and i do not intend to join it again
10:11 PM Tom_L: it will be cloud based then
10:11 PM roycroft: i'll either be dead or senile in 30-40 years
10:11 PM roycroft: so i won't care :)
10:12 PM roycroft: xxcoder: if you want to start a new irc network, here's how you should do it:
10:12 PM roycroft: start a new irc network
10:12 PM CaptHindsight: i want a chat service that lets me share text, binary files, JS, phone/voice, SMS, Skype, Zoom and SSH
10:12 PM roycroft: go hang out there and make it as great as you can
10:12 PM roycroft: and leave this one alone
10:12 PM XXCoder: even if channel owner have moved to new serverr?
10:13 PM CaptHindsight: and everyone has root to everyone else
10:13 PM roycroft: these so-called "libre" people don't seem to want to start a new network so much as destroy this one
10:13 PM Tom_L: roycroft, nothing new
10:13 PM CaptHindsight: oh and it should servo videos without commercials
10:13 PM roycroft: that's the impression i got almost everywhere i went on libre.chat, and on the channels here that i had to leave because of the bullshit
10:14 PM roycroft: i'm trying as hard as i can not to get wrapped up in this dispute - i really don't care
10:14 PM roycroft: at all
10:14 PM Tom_L: it seems to be affecting you though
10:14 PM roycroft: i just want to be able to chat with some folks about things that interest me and, hopefully, them
10:14 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:15 PM roycroft: yes, because it's thrown in my face all the time
10:15 PM roycroft: not on this channel, thank goodness
10:15 PM Tom_L: to a degree
10:15 PM roycroft: well, it's more of a meta-discussion here
10:15 PM roycroft: nobody is trying to force everyone to leave this channel and join the new one on libera.chat
10:16 PM Tom_L: matrix isn't so bad, i'm used to irc
10:16 PM roycroft: and i don't know that much of anyone has actually completely left this channel for libera
10:16 PM roycroft: but i don't know everyone here, and don't keep track of everyone
10:16 PM XXCoder: 33 on libera linuxcnc currently
10:16 PM Tom_L: if they did, i didn't notice if they completely left here
10:16 PM roycroft: and how many of those 33 are also here?
10:16 PM roycroft: i'd wager about 33 of them
10:17 PM XXCoder: 4 known
10:17 PM Tom_L: those fence riders are just waiting to see which way it falls
10:17 PM roycroft: i was idling there myself until i got fed up with the whole situation and signed off that network
10:17 PM XXCoder: me, owner, jt, dt, and couple others actually
10:18 PM Tom_L: it would be quite a chore i imagine to reconfigure the buildbot messaging etc
10:18 PM XXCoder: shouldnt be
10:19 PM Tom_L: and he's not that active as it is now
10:19 PM XXCoder: but hey xthx, an excellent info bot is there lol
10:19 PM XXCoder: it can be amazing useful
10:19 PM Tom_L: yeah those tend to get abused too
10:20 PM XXCoder: not expecially so, gthx in reprap this server isnt abused too bad
10:20 PM XXCoder: uhh
10:20 PM XXCoder: reprap have been taken over!
10:22 PM XXCoder: ubuntu have been taken over also
10:23 PM XXCoder: freenode is not free now.
10:24 PM Tom_L: carry on with the crusade. i'm goin to bed
10:24 PM XXCoder: Tom_L: its freenode doing that
10:26 PM roycroft: i don't know if freenode is "free" or not
10:26 PM roycroft: i do know that libre.chat is being run by assholes
10:27 PM roycroft: and is certainly not "free"
10:27 PM XXCoder: you say that when freenode just took over channels. ok
10:27 PM roycroft: as they're trying to force people to leave freenode
10:27 PM XXCoder: youre saying moving OFFICAL servers is forcing?
10:28 PM roycroft: he doesn't seem to get that i don't care if people start another network
10:28 PM roycroft: i care when they leave this one but come back to wreak havoc here
10:29 PM roycroft: oh well
10:29 PM * roycroft thinks it's time to not be looking at the screen any more for a while
10:32 PM snakedLX is now known as snaked
10:38 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:06 PM norias: ok. so.
11:06 PM norias: yet another shop owner emailing me about their troubles recruiting machinists
11:06 PM norias: i'm brining this up here because i feel like ya'll know enough about the industry to tell me if it's a local problem
11:06 PM norias: or i'm insane
11:07 PM norias: but i feel like, if you aren't a white dude with a stay at home wife to watch the kids
11:07 PM norias: machining isn't really a career option
11:07 PM norias: and i can't understand why we can't adapt the work to fit people's lifestyles and get new blood in the trade
11:10 PM CaptHindsight: norias: companies that pay enough have no problems finding workers
11:11 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.businessinsider.com/ice-cream-shop-doubles-minimum-wage-pay-flooded-with-applications-2021-5
11:16 PM norias: CaptHindsight: i feel like that works in the near term, for ice cream shops
11:16 PM norias: whereas machining appears to have a longer term problem
11:17 PM norias: i also think machine shops have 'stickier' prices because of international competition
11:17 PM norias: but, yes, agreed compensation seems to often be an issue
11:17 PM norias: i just don't think it's the only one, or the only solution
11:19 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:24 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ