#linuxcnc Logs

May 11 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:01 AM roycroft: it depends on the screw size and the wood it's going into
12:08 AM XXCoder: yea
12:08 AM XXCoder: just want "standard" lol designing a wire holder mount
12:08 AM roycroft: for hardwoods i drill a pilot hole about 2/3 to 3/4 the diameter of the tap drill size for that size fastener
12:08 AM roycroft: for softwoods, 1/2 the diameter or less
12:08 AM XXCoder: yeah im making a mount, it would break if screw though, i need OD so screw dont touch mount besides taper
12:11 AM XXCoder: roy what ya think
12:39 AM XXCoder: roycroft: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/763323422746345472/841546748145172510/unknown.png
12:47 AM XXCoder: wow no more lag
01:13 AM Deejay: moin
01:17 AM roycroft: i'm not sure what that's supposed to do, xxcoder
01:17 AM XXCoder: its to hold up cable
01:18 AM XXCoder: it would pull on cable, so this takes up tension and is lot stronger way to hold cable
01:18 AM roycroft: well it looks like it would do that
01:20 AM XXCoder: yeah
02:14 AM Bleepshop: roycroft: Do it the easy way and add this line to your next sale posting after 'Price is Firm'... '10% Surcharge will be added if you want to haggle about the price.' ;D
04:10 AM Tom_L: morning
04:11 AM Tom_L: XXCoder, on wood screws i just eyeball the drill up against the screw shank
04:11 AM Tom_L: or 'root'
04:12 AM XXCoder: lol ok. i didnt have one in hand so need to get one before finalizing print
04:12 AM XXCoder: its pretty close to done tho
04:12 AM Tom_L: if it's really hard wood i'll wax the screw depending how big it is
04:12 AM Tom_L: ie hard maple or beech etc
05:38 AM JT-Cave: morning
07:53 AM jymmmm: morning
08:12 AM JT-Cave: yo
10:00 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:52 AM roycroft: so to add further the the mystery that are the nielsen ratings folks, their return address is in maryland, they are mailing me their daily letters from st louis, those letters include crisp new $1 bills from the federal reserve bank in boston, and the new interesting point - they are calling me to remind me to fill out my diary every single day (most of the calls go to voicemail)
11:52 AM roycroft: it's a different person every time, but every person who has called has a strong new jersey accent
12:45 PM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
12:54 PM roycroft: yikes
12:55 PM roycroft: does it take like 20 hours to rewind a motor?
12:55 PM roycroft: the motor shop just called and said it's not cost effective to repair my motor, as the windings are bad
12:55 PM roycroft: they said it's cheaper to just get a new motor, and then quoted me $950 for a new motor
12:57 PM roycroft: i can get a new motor for a small fraction of that price, but that's beside the point
12:58 PM JT-Shop: hmm a 1 7/16" bushing won't work on a 1 3/8" shaft...
01:00 PM roycroft: it will be a slip fit, to be sure
01:02 PM JT-Shop: what size motor?
01:02 PM roycroft: 3hp 3 phase
01:04 PM JT-Shop: that price sounds a bit high, check automation direct they have good motors
01:04 PM roycroft: it's an odd frame size
01:04 PM JT-Shop: what frame size?
01:04 PM roycroft: but i can get a replacement in a more standard frame size
01:05 PM roycroft: i forget
01:05 PM roycroft: maybe 145t
01:05 PM roycroft: but i can replace it with a 56c
01:05 PM JT-Shop: you can get a 3hp motor in single phase if you want
01:05 PM roycroft: i need 3 phase
01:06 PM roycroft: this motor has a 7/8" shaft
01:06 PM roycroft: but it's for my belt grinder, and i can get a replacement drive wheel with a 5/8" hole for $40
01:06 PM JT-Shop: https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/motors/ac_motors_-_general_purpose/open_drip_proof/mtdp-003-3bd36
01:06 PM JT-Shop: 3hp 3ph 145t
01:06 PM roycroft: i can also get a 5/8" to 7/8" bushing with a stepped key for $40
01:06 PM JT-Shop: $335 and free shipping when they get them back in stock
01:07 PM roycroft: the current motor is odp
01:07 PM * JT-Shop goes to cut the 1 7/16" bushing off the arm
01:07 PM roycroft: and that's probably why it fried
01:07 PM roycroft: tefc would be better for a belt grinder
01:07 PM JT-Shop: aye
01:07 PM roycroft: so this is an opportunity to improve the system
01:07 PM roycroft: i used what i had when i built the machine
01:08 PM roycroft: and i can get a tefc motor for around $300
01:09 PM roycroft: i actually have a nice, brand-new american made dayton motor that would work fine, except it's flange mount only
01:09 PM roycroft: and i need mounting feet
01:09 PM roycroft: i may consider fabricating a mounting bracket
01:10 PM roycroft: more likely, though, i'll sell the dayton and get something with the mounting feet already attached
01:13 PM rs[m]: roycroft: get a proper motor protection contactor and thermal protection, a 3 phase motor should be unkillable if you don't overheat it
01:13 PM roycroft: https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/motors/ac_motors_-_general_purpose/general_purpose/mtrp-003-3bd36
01:13 PM roycroft: that would be a better motor for my application
01:14 PM roycroft: rs[m]: i suspect that a bunch of metal dust got inside the motor
01:14 PM roycroft: it's an odp frame, and although i built a shroud to protect it, it's likely some metal bits still got inside it
01:14 PM roycroft: tefc would be much better for the application
01:14 PM roycroft: it did not overheat
01:15 PM roycroft: at least, the killing event was not due to overheating
01:15 PM roycroft: it had been running for maybe 45 seconds when i heard a "pop", and then the vfd started throwing load side errors
01:15 PM rs[m]: you managed to damage the windings with dust buildup?
01:15 PM roycroft: the motor shop said the windings are damaged
01:15 PM roycroft: i haven't picked it up from them yet
01:16 PM roycroft: it's entirely possible that they were just trying to sell me a new, way overpriced motor
01:16 PM roycroft: i'll pick it up today or tomorrow and check it out myself before i purchase a new motor
01:17 PM rs[m]: maybe the bearings are damaged
01:18 PM JT-Shop: I think my cummings h frame press is a few notches below horrible freight
01:20 PM roycroft: the motor spun freelly by hand with no crunchiness after the incident
01:20 PM roycroft: freely
01:20 PM roycroft: that doesn't mean there are not bearing problems, but it's not obvious that there are
01:23 PM roycroft: automation direct don't seem to provide shipping costs until i actually purchase the item
01:23 PM roycroft: so i have no idea if their pricing is good or not
01:23 PM roycroft: that depends on whether shipping is $20 or $120
01:24 PM roycroft: oh, it says "free 2 day delivery $49 and over"
01:25 PM roycroft: that makes it a good deal
01:28 PM JT-Shop: over $75 free
01:28 PM JT-Shop: or something like that
01:29 PM JT-Shop: $49
01:29 PM roycroft: i bought stuff from them years ago, but my login does not work any more
01:29 PM roycroft: they think i no longer exist
01:30 PM JT-Shop: I think that happened to me years ago and an email and they fixed it
01:32 PM roycroft: i'm just creating a new account
01:32 PM roycroft: i've changed my mind about checking out the old motor first
01:32 PM roycroft: i shall still check it out, but if i get free shipping on a new motor i'm going to buy the new tefc motor
01:35 PM roycroft: the new motor is also inverter duty rated, which the old one was not
01:36 PM roycroft: i almost always ran the motor at full speed, so that's not really much of an issue, but it's nice to have one that's inverter rated
01:36 PM JT-Shop: aye
01:39 PM roycroft: the enclosed frame is a bigger issue
01:41 PM roycroft: so it looks like the belt grinder will be back in service this weekend
01:42 PM roycroft: and now i know how to price the dayton motor :)
01:45 PM JT-Shop: dayton motors are more expensive, look it up at grangers
01:46 PM roycroft: yes, they are
01:46 PM roycroft: but i just paid $235 for this motor, with free shipping
01:46 PM roycroft: so i need to sell the dayton for $235 plus shipping
01:47 PM roycroft: it will be a wash for me, and the buyer will get a good deal
03:59 PM drdoc: zowie
03:59 PM drdoc: Sanity check: Baldor Sez my motor is 56C TEFC
04:00 PM drdoc: the grinder frame bolts directly to the face
04:00 PM drdoc: I should be able to replace that with a 56C/CH motor, yes?
04:01 PM drdoc: *56C/HC
04:02 PM drdoc: ASSuming I can match the shaft
04:04 PM roycroft: the shaft size is part of the frame specification
04:05 PM roycroft: all 56 series motors will have a 5/8" shaft diameter
04:05 PM drdoc: ah
04:08 PM roycroft: the bolt circle and registration flange diameters are the same on all 56 series motors as well
04:09 PM roycroft: the distance between the mounting feet differs, though, but if yours is flange mount that does not matter
04:09 PM drdoc: right
04:10 PM drdoc: I think I'm looking at the motor you just bought
04:10 PM drdoc: https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/motors/ac_motors_-_general_purpose/general_purpose/mtrp-003-3bd36
04:10 PM drdoc: that one?
04:11 PM drdoc: that's pretty tempting
04:14 PM roycroft: yes, that's the one i just ordered
04:16 PM roycroft: i should know by this weekend whether it's a good motor or not
04:16 PM drdoc: know anything about Ironhorse brand?
04:16 PM roycroft: i'm going to have to modify the mounting plate on my grinder, but that should not take long
04:16 PM drdoc: ah
04:16 PM roycroft: no
04:16 PM roycroft: i know that automationdirect don't generally sell junk
04:17 PM drdoc: I'd love to stick a Baldor 3ph in there, but $$$$$
04:18 PM roycroft: the ironhorse motors have a 2 year arranty
04:18 PM roycroft: warranty
04:18 PM roycroft: and yeah
04:18 PM roycroft: a baldor would be more like $600
04:19 PM drdoc: yep
04:19 PM roycroft: i looked back at my records, and i paid $99 for the motor that just blew up
04:19 PM roycroft: i ran it for 3 years before it blew up
04:19 PM roycroft: that's not a bad value
04:20 PM roycroft: this one is $235, so i expect it to last about 7 years :)
04:20 PM JT-Shop: well the easy part is done... now for the tacho
04:20 PM JT-Shop: which one did you end up getting?
04:20 PM roycroft: actually, since it's brand new, and since it's a tefc frame, it will hopefully last longer
04:20 PM roycroft: the one that drdoc just linked to above
04:20 PM roycroft: a 56c frame
04:21 PM roycroft: i also found a keyed bushing for $19.99, which is cheaper than getting a new drive wheel
04:21 PM roycroft: it's 5/8" to 7/8", with a stepped key
04:21 PM roycroft: i think that will work ok for this application
04:21 PM roycroft: https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/motors/ac_motors_-_general_purpose/general_purpose/mtrp-003-3bd36
04:21 PM roycroft: in case you don't have drdoc's link
04:22 PM drdoc: roycroft: I bet a donut you end up replacing the drive wheel
04:25 PM JT-Shop: nice
04:26 PM roycroft: perhaps, drdoc
04:26 PM roycroft: i'm willing to gamble on the bushing for now
04:26 PM roycroft: 1. it's half the price of a new drive wheel
04:26 PM roycroft: 2. i'll have it by week's end, while a new drive wheel will take a few more days
04:26 PM drdoc: right
04:27 PM drdoc: I'd do the same, but I doubt that I'd ever be really satisfied with it
04:27 PM roycroft: but if the bushing and key are made well they may last indefinitely
04:27 PM drdoc: true
04:28 PM roycroft: this is not one of those two key bushings - there's not enough difference in the diameters for that
04:28 PM roycroft: the bushing has a single slot in it
04:28 PM drdoc: ah
04:28 PM drdoc: man, I've never spent any time on a grooved contact wheel
04:28 PM roycroft: and the key fits on the motor shaft, passes through the bushing, and fits directly to the drive wheel
04:29 PM drdoc: talk about moving some metal...
04:29 PM roycroft: i have a 10" grooved contact wheel that i've never installed
04:29 PM roycroft: i need to make a tool arm for it
04:29 PM roycroft: that's actually on my short list
04:29 PM roycroft: but i need a belt grinder to make the tool arm for it
04:29 PM drdoc: this one's 7", and something like a 3/4" pitch on the grooves
04:29 PM roycroft: so the new motor is the higher priority
04:30 PM drdoc: it rattles my branes
04:30 PM roycroft: i also have a set of small contact wheels that i never installed
04:30 PM drdoc: 2"?
04:30 PM roycroft: less than that
04:30 PM roycroft: i think the smallest one is 1/2"
04:30 PM drdoc: ah
04:31 PM drdoc: for awhile is was all the rage to use skateboard wheels for the platen arm
04:31 PM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm/262032103307
04:31 PM roycroft: like those
04:31 PM drdoc: right
04:32 PM drdoc: I like the small-wheel setup in that Schmidt design
04:32 PM roycroft: when i finished the build of the belt grinder, i had just made the platen arm for it, a horizontal table, and a 45 degree table
04:32 PM drdoc: which I bought yesterday darn you
04:32 PM roycroft: i intended to make an adjustable angle table, a grooved contact wheel arm, and a small wheel arm
04:32 PM roycroft: but never got around to those things
04:33 PM roycroft: i have the parts
04:33 PM roycroft: you'll like the grinder
04:33 PM roycroft: and his new design has some distinct improvements over the old one
04:33 PM drdoc: it'll be a year or more before it's built
04:33 PM roycroft: i have to decide really soon whether i am going to build a new one per his new design or just stick with what i have
04:33 PM roycroft: because the tables/contact wheels will not migrate
04:34 PM roycroft: and i intend to make the other components soon
04:34 PM roycroft: i'll probably stick with what i have
04:34 PM roycroft: when i built the grinder i took a week of vacation time and it took me most of that week to build it
04:34 PM roycroft: probably 35 hours or so
04:34 PM drdoc: will v2 give you capacity you don't already have?
04:35 PM roycroft: no
04:35 PM roycroft: just a bit more ease of use
04:35 PM roycroft: and if i'm honest, one of the big improvements is meaningless to me
04:35 PM drdoc: which?
04:35 PM roycroft: he built it up higher so the motor does not stick down below the base level when it's rotated
04:35 PM drdoc: oh
04:36 PM roycroft: and i already built a stand for it with a recess for the motor to swivel down into
04:36 PM drdoc: heh
04:36 PM roycroft: the new motor is not as long as the old one
04:36 PM roycroft: so i could have built a smaller recess
04:36 PM roycroft: but oh well
04:36 PM drdoc: I need to get a couple of new wire wheels and clean up that pedestal
04:37 PM drdoc: better airflow, man
04:37 PM drdoc: the only wheel I have left is a harbor freight radial, nearly brand new
04:37 PM roycroft: i still haven't figured out how to fixture chisels for grinding on the belt grinder
04:38 PM roycroft: it's not something i need to do often
04:38 PM roycroft: so i'm not too concerned about it
04:38 PM drdoc: the last time I used it was on a bbq pit, and I caught a loose wire in a VERY tender spot
04:38 PM roycroft: ouch
04:38 PM drdoc: through a denim apron and my jeans
04:39 PM drdoc: Man, I knew better
04:39 PM roycroft: i'm not a big fan of wire wheels for that very reason
04:39 PM drdoc: I don't use anything HF that turns faster than 8rpm
04:39 PM roycroft: even with guards around the wheel, the wires like to come off and find a way to travel to very painful places
04:40 PM roycroft: even premium wire wheels will occasionally shed
04:40 PM drdoc: well, I *have* a leather apron for that
04:40 PM XXCoder: whats up all
04:40 PM drdoc: it was just real hot in Texas that day
04:40 PM roycroft: i bet that in retrospect you'd rather have sweated a bit more
04:40 PM drdoc: and I did the thing that's nearly as bad as "hold my beer"
04:41 PM drdoc: "I kin get away with this once, right?"
04:41 PM roycroft: i find the twisted knot ones tend to shed less than the loose wire ones
04:41 PM drdoc: yes
04:41 PM drdoc: i.e. not HF
04:41 PM roycroft: and they are more aggressive
04:41 PM roycroft: which can be good, or not, depending on what you're doing
04:42 PM drdoc: I might just throw a gallon of Marine Orange on the thing and let it sit a couple of days
04:44 PM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm/254649983338
04:44 PM drdoc: I rarely get out the wire wheel if aggressive isn't what I want
04:44 PM roycroft: that's the bushing i ordered, btw
04:45 PM roycroft: i do think there's a good chance it will work for a long while
04:45 PM roycroft: i could make one, as well, but it would cost more than $20 worth of my time to do so
04:45 PM drdoc: if the tolerance is tight, that oughta do ya
04:46 PM drdoc: yeah, I wouldn't make one to save $20
04:46 PM drdoc: dammit
04:46 PM drdoc: Rab!
04:46 PM roycroft: yes, and the listing has the magic words "made in usa" and "cnc machined", which to me indicate a good chance the tolerance is tight
04:46 PM drdoc: yes
04:47 PM drdoc: I guess it's time to sell the Griz
04:47 PM roycroft: i'll be sad if it vibrates
04:48 PM roycroft: don't sell the griz until you've built the new one
04:48 PM drdoc: well
04:48 PM roycroft: it's a lot easier to build a belt grinder if you have a belt grinder
04:48 PM drdoc: the tentative plan is to be homeless for the next 8-9 months
04:49 PM Rab: drdoc, yes?
04:49 PM drdoc: wanna buy the Grizzly?
04:49 PM Rab: Alas, no room!
04:49 PM drdoc: G1015 irrc
04:49 PM drdoc: the stand is 18x18"
04:50 PM roycroft: there's an option
04:50 PM roycroft: sell your current one to rab
04:50 PM roycroft: and then use rab's when you build your new one
04:50 PM drdoc: roycroft: remember I have *2* now
04:50 PM roycroft: oh, you're good to go then
04:51 PM drdoc: yeah
04:51 PM roycroft: when i built my 2x72 i ended up using the little 1x30 to help with the build
04:51 PM roycroft: the 2x72 is like 100x faster than the 1x30, but i got the job done
04:52 PM drdoc: I wish the Baldor was 2x72 instead of 2x48, but the selection of belts for the 48 has gotten a lot better
04:52 PM roycroft: you'll be impressed with the power of the 2x72, assuming you get a 3hp motor for it
04:52 PM drdoc: and everything else about it runs circles around the Grizzly
04:52 PM roycroft: it saves so much time
04:53 PM drdoc: roycroft: I've used 3hp 2x72s at hammer-ins
04:53 PM roycroft: ok, so you know about the power
04:53 PM drdoc: oh yes
04:53 PM roycroft: you feed it thick metal and it eats it up and spits out dust
04:54 PM drdoc: and occasionally a knuckle
04:54 PM roycroft: don't do that
04:54 PM drdoc: too late
04:54 PM roycroft: i've never had a body part come in contact with the belt on my 2x72
04:54 PM roycroft: i've had it happen on my 6x80 edge sander
04:54 PM roycroft: once
04:54 PM roycroft: lightly
04:54 PM drdoc: getting whacked in the face with a busted 36 grit was worse
04:55 PM roycroft: and that was enough to make me really careful
04:55 PM roycroft: yes, i learned early on to stand off to the side when grinding
04:55 PM Rab: This is all the room I have, you can see the 1x30: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/mill/image/workshop.jpg
04:55 PM drdoc: I *was*
04:55 PM roycroft: and i've had several belts break and miss me by fractions of an inch
04:55 PM Rab: The other side is even worse, electronics bench and CNC.
04:55 PM drdoc: heh
04:56 PM roycroft: my 1x30 is in the trash can
04:56 PM Rab: I really need a pedestal grinder, but there's nowhere for it to go but in the way.
04:56 PM roycroft: which means i am without belt grinder at the moment
04:56 PM roycroft: and that's a scary state of affairs
04:56 PM drdoc: Rab: I haven't put a stone wheel on my bench grinder in years
04:56 PM roycroft: i actually had to use a 6" stone grinder the other day
04:57 PM roycroft: i hadn't turned that machine on in years
04:57 PM drdoc: *shudder*
04:57 PM drdoc: My neighbor across the street is terrified of that grizzly
04:57 PM drdoc: and he's a cabinetmaker!
04:58 PM roycroft: years and years ago i was considering that grizzly grinder
04:58 PM Rab: Someday I hope to fit in a lathe, probably by throwing half of everything out.
04:58 PM roycroft: but then i discovered 2x72 grinders, with the interchangeable arms and tables
04:58 PM roycroft: and decided that would be a lot better than the grizzly
04:58 PM drdoc: I bought it on the premise that I didn't know enough to know which *good* belt grinder to get
04:59 PM roycroft: this was before the jeremy schmidt design
04:59 PM drdoc: so I got the cheap one, expecting to upgrade.
04:59 PM roycroft: i spent several years trying to decide which 2x72 design was the best, and then jeremy published his, and i knew right away that's the one to build
04:59 PM drdoc: yeah
05:00 PM drdoc: there are a bunch of DIY designs out there, and some are just terrifying
05:00 PM roycroft: i was even looking at purchasing a grinder pre-built, but i liked jeremy's design better than any of the commercial ones
05:02 PM drdoc: man, who let it be 5?
05:02 PM drdoc: I gotta go Do Stuff
05:04 PM JT-Shop: hmm the servo jumps when I turn on power... something is wrong
05:07 PM Tom_L: encoder off?
05:07 PM JT-Shop: dunno, gotta go back in the encoder end and see what I can figure out
05:07 PM Tom_L: i know next to nothing about servos
05:08 PM Tom_L: i do know it's not a good idea to spill juice on a keyboard
05:08 PM JT-Shop: I know more than I knew the other day
05:08 PM JT-Shop: that I know for sure
05:08 PM Tom_L: 2nd time
05:08 PM Tom_L: you think i'd learn
05:08 PM Tom_L: i had a spare
05:09 PM Tom_L: it's the old 'cherry' key type
05:11 PM JT-Shop: I'm not familiar with that type
05:12 PM Tom_L: like the old ibm kbd
05:13 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Omnikey_key/alps4.jpg
05:13 PM Tom_L: that's the inside of the actual switch
05:13 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Omnikey_key/alps3.jpg
05:14 PM JT-Shop: bunch of parts for a key
05:15 PM Tom_L: built to last
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08:23 PM veegee: Tom_L why port 81?
08:23 PM veegee: Tom_L Is your ISP blocking incoming connections on port 80?
08:23 PM Tom_L: isp blocks 80
08:23 PM veegee: Should use SSL anyway
08:24 PM veegee: Do they block 443?
08:31 PM Tom_L: i dunno
09:04 PM roycroft: on a residential internet connection i'd run well-known services on non-standard ports
09:05 PM roycroft: although what i do is park a cisco asa behind my cablemodem and access my internal network remotely via a vpn
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10:47 PM roycroft: the guy who just bought my sheet metal machine was having problems figuring out how to use one of the functions, so i went over to show him how it works
10:48 PM roycroft: it turns out that he's well-known metal sculptor, and he has a pretty cool studio
10:48 PM XXCoder: nice
10:48 PM roycroft: yeah
10:49 PM roycroft: he repurposes a lot of things in his scuptures
10:49 PM roycroft: judturner.com
10:49 PM roycroft: i like his work
11:03 PM veegee: What would be the equivalent of Fusion360 from Autodesk as a combination of their other tools?
11:04 PM veegee: Would it be AutoCAD + Inventor?
11:23 PM veegee: What CAM tools do you guys use?
11:23 PM XXCoder: im not much for statues like that
11:24 PM XXCoder: but cool though, i like to see skill
11:24 PM roycroft: different folks have differing tastes
11:24 PM XXCoder: yep
11:25 PM roycroft: soon there will be lots of rolled sheet metal in his sculptures :)
11:29 PM XXCoder: :)
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