#linuxcnc Logs
May 03 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:49 AM mrec_: https://snipboard.io/dAoiWD.jpg step chart of possible speeds of a cheap chinese mini lathe
01:03 AM Deejay: moin
02:33 AM veegee: For a very infrequently used engine, it's not necessary to change the oil filter for years, right?
02:33 AM veegee: The oil should be changed because it degrades of course
02:33 AM veegee: But I'm not sure if the filter media degrades that quickly
02:34 AM veegee: This is for my internal combustion forklifts, generator, etc. The number of engine hours I put on them is next to nothing
04:14 AM Tom_L: morning
04:18 AM veegee: My lathe's slowest longitudinal feed is too fast
04:18 AM veegee: Time to mount steppers I guess
04:20 AM veegee: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/30/technology/google-back-to-office-workers.html everything about this is fucking depressing
04:20 AM veegee: all these clowns with their shitty masks pretending like it actually does something
04:52 AM ar: even shitty masks have been proven to work time and time again
04:53 AM XXCoder: ione nosemask other than that it seems ok
04:53 AM XXCoder: *one
04:54 AM XXCoder: remember, masks is to protect *others*
05:45 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:42 AM miss0r2: 'ello
07:25 AM perry_j1987: mornin all
07:25 AM perry_j1987: everybody got their coffee yet?
09:10 AM * JT-Shop wonders if he should allow shipping to Latvia?
09:10 AM drdoc: No
09:10 AM drdoc: Nor Italy
09:11 AM JT-Shop: ok thanks
09:12 AM drdoc: Nothing against Italian bidders, but if there's a dispute, Ebay Italia *always* blames the Yankee
09:13 AM roycroft: s/ebay//
09:14 AM roycroft: the amanda knox case comes to mind
09:18 AM JT-Shop: I don't sell on fleabay
09:18 AM JT-Shop: https://mesaus.com/ is my store
09:27 AM roycroft: jt-shop: i would check with your merchant bank to see what protections you have against chargebacks and the like from those countries
09:38 AM JT-Shop: I use paypal
09:39 AM JT-Shop: I only ship to a few countries anymore... NZ AU CA mostly
09:53 AM roycroft: any opinions on spi rules?
09:54 AM roycroft: i need a long, accurate rule, and i can get an spi for less than 1/5 the cost of starrett
09:54 AM drdoc: JT-Shop: Oh. Yeah. I was on my first cup.
10:00 AM drdoc: roycroft: check with Ideal?
10:01 AM drdoc: they sell refurbs and overstock at decent prices
10:01 AM drdoc: http://idealprec.com/
10:03 AM roycroft: the spi i'm looking at is now
10:03 AM roycroft: nos, rather
10:05 AM drdoc: how long?
10:05 AM roycroft: 72"
10:06 AM roycroft: which is why i'm tempted to get an spi
10:06 AM drdoc: ah
10:06 AM roycroft: a 72" 4r starrett goes for around $800
10:06 AM roycroft: i can get the spi for <$100
10:06 AM roycroft: so more like 1/8 the cost of starrett
10:07 AM roycroft: which is still <1/5, so i was not wrong above :)
10:07 AM drdoc: lol
10:07 AM roycroft: it would primarily be used for woodworking, but i still need it to be accurate
10:07 AM drdoc: looks like Ideal doesn't have anything that long
10:07 AM roycroft: spi are etched, and probably pretty accurate
10:08 AM drdoc: what's your tolerance?
10:08 AM roycroft: the big question is: do the offset from the end accurately?
10:08 AM drdoc: yes it is
10:08 AM roycroft: well, as i said, it's for woodworking, so probably 1/64" would be fine
10:08 AM drdoc: the big question
10:08 AM drdoc: can you return the spi?
10:08 AM roycroft: some of the cheap rules either have a '0' mark towards the end, or they chop the end off semi-randomly
10:09 AM drdoc: I know
10:09 AM roycroft: it's from ebay, and i cannot, unless it is not as described
10:09 AM drdoc: I have one that started life with a zero
10:09 AM roycroft: that can be fixed
10:09 AM drdoc: It met the belt grinder soon after
10:09 AM roycroft: chopping off randomly cannot be fixed of the random chop is too short
10:09 AM drdoc: yup
10:10 AM roycroft: and if the end is not accurate the rule isn't very useful
10:10 AM roycroft: if i have to offset everything by 1" so i can line it up at the 1" mark i might as well use a tape measure
10:10 AM drdoc: hmm
10:10 AM drdoc: MSC gets $150 for that
10:11 AM drdoc: no reviews though
10:11 AM roycroft: yeah, but msc bought spi and moved production to china
10:11 AM roycroft: the one i'm looking at is pre-msc
10:11 AM drdoc: ah
10:11 AM roycroft: and msc is $215.16 for me
10:12 AM roycroft: because i don't give them tens of thousands of dollars per year
10:12 AM roycroft: i don't buy anything from them - i am pissed off at them forever
10:12 AM drdoc: yeah, I need to fix that
10:12 AM roycroft: when they borged enco they promised me enco pricing for a year on the items i've purchased within the past year from enco
10:12 AM roycroft: and then immediately jacked those prices up by over 30%
10:13 AM roycroft: i totally get tiered pricing when you're dealing with a sales person all the time
10:14 AM drdoc: or something like Mouser
10:14 AM roycroft: but for web-based sales, it's just screwing the small customers over, unless the tiers are very close
10:14 AM roycroft: but 30% is not close
10:14 AM drdoc: where a human has to go count 8 resistors
10:14 AM roycroft: i mean, i can see a 5% discount on big orders
10:14 AM drdoc: right
10:14 AM roycroft: but 30+% difference
10:14 AM roycroft: that's just saying "we don't want to deal with small customers"
10:14 AM drdoc: me, I'd probably gamble on that SPI
10:15 AM roycroft: and i heard that
10:15 AM roycroft: and have acted accordingly
10:16 AM roycroft: i really like my starrett rules, with the nice numbering and satin finish
10:16 AM roycroft: but i don't like them enough to pay >$700 more for one
10:17 AM drdoc: my standard for that sort of thing is "How much is this thing going to earn me?"
10:17 AM roycroft: yeah, and it will take a long time to make up that $700
10:17 AM drdoc: sounds like the difference between SPI and Starrett isn't that much earning
10:17 AM roycroft: but if the spi is inaccurate it's just pissing money down the toilet
10:17 AM drdoc: yeah, what you said
10:18 AM drdoc: well, I'd probably gamble
10:18 AM roycroft: it's not really a case of spi vs. starrett
10:18 AM roycroft: it's a case of spi vs. nothing
10:18 AM drdoc: ah
10:18 AM roycroft: since it's nos i'm leaning towards getting it
10:18 AM drdoc: I would
10:18 AM roycroft: if it were the current version i'd be more hesitant
10:19 AM drdoc: if it's US made I'd be pretty comfortable
10:19 AM roycroft: this should be the last precision rule i need
10:19 AM drdoc: one would hope
10:19 AM roycroft: my longest metric one is 1m, but i don't do enough metric work that i think i'd need a 2m rule
10:20 AM drdoc: I bought a digital Mitu from Ideal last year, a refurb
10:20 AM roycroft: and in us customary i have several 6", 12", and 18", and a 24", 36", and 48", all starrett
10:20 AM drdoc: I'd been resisting that for several years because I already had 3 good dial calipers
10:20 AM roycroft: i bought a 4" mitutoyo digitcal caliper from amazon's "factory warehouse" a few years ago
10:20 AM drdoc: an 8" mitutoyo and a 6" Browne & Sharp
10:21 AM roycroft: which is basically just their returns center
10:21 AM drdoc: right
10:21 AM roycroft: it appears to be genuine
10:21 AM roycroft: it has certs and the like and looks exactly like a mitutoyo
10:21 AM roycroft: and it works beautifully
10:21 AM drdoc: Ideal had a sale and this 8" digital was $75 shipped
10:21 AM roycroft: and is still on the first battery
10:21 AM drdoc: yeah, it's genuine then
10:22 AM drdoc: that's always the tell
10:22 AM roycroft: it's my most used caliper
10:22 AM roycroft: 4" is such a convenient size
10:22 AM drdoc: I wish I'd spent the money on it years ago
10:22 AM roycroft: i can put it in an apron pocket and not worry about it getting snagged or falling out
10:22 AM drdoc: Hmm.
10:22 AM drdoc: damn you
10:22 AM roycroft: now your collection is going to grow again :)
10:23 AM drdoc: I did not need to start thinking about that
10:23 AM drdoc: We sent Ideal a depth gauge that had belonged to the master machinist's grandpa
10:24 AM roycroft: actually, 3" would be fantastic, but i've not seen any that size that's a premium brand
10:24 AM drdoc: and Charlie's 65...
10:24 AM roycroft: and the cheap ones are way too expensive, since they need a new battery every third time or so you use them
10:24 AM drdoc: the bezel was bent, the crytal was scratchewd up, and the dial was waaay off calibration
10:25 AM drdoc: they charged Charlie $92 and sent it back looking and wirking like new
10:25 AM roycroft: that sounds like a good deal
10:25 AM drdoc: and dude, they *had* to have fabbed parts for that
10:26 AM drdoc: it was a beautiful job
10:26 AM drdoc: and they sent a note back thanking Charlie for letting them work on his heirloom
10:26 AM drdoc: They have my business.
10:28 AM drdoc: I'd honestly rather buy a refurb from them than a new one from Amazon or Ebay
10:28 AM drdoc: even for the same money - I know Ideal has weeded out the knockoffs
10:29 AM * roycroft pulls the trigger
10:29 AM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/SPIRule.jpeg
10:29 AM roycroft: it looks like it was chopped properly
10:30 AM drdoc: now if the carrier just doesn't bend it...
10:30 AM roycroft: it's 10R, not 4R, but i can live with that
10:30 AM drdoc: yeah
10:30 AM drdoc: that looks well within 1/128th of correct
10:30 AM drdoc: to my semi-trained eye
10:32 AM roycroft: and it's actually not a bad looking rule
10:32 AM drdoc: roycroft: that looks like a good rule
10:32 AM drdoc: hah!
10:32 AM roycroft: the numbers are not too ugly
10:32 AM roycroft: the gradations nice and crisp - not too fat
10:32 AM drdoc: was going to say, it looks very readable
10:32 AM roycroft: yes
10:32 AM roycroft: it's no starrett
10:32 AM roycroft: but it's 1/8 the cost
10:33 AM roycroft: and it's 90% of the quality
10:33 AM drdoc: it's no $800 Starrett
10:33 AM drdoc: I dunno about you, but I think the rifleman's standard for accuracy applies here
10:34 AM drdoc: "It's more accurate than I am."
10:34 AM * drdoc needs to go feed the Overlords
10:34 AM drdoc: hasta
10:35 AM roycroft: i do have a starrett 299, but my longest rules currently are 48" and 36", so i can only get 84" in a go by joining them
10:35 AM roycroft: now i'll be able to get 120"
10:54 AM Rab: I've heard horror stories about Mitutoyo via Amazon...I would never do it these days.
10:56 AM Loetmichel: *grin* German EMTs. Positively insane. I just drove home on the highway at 100 mph/160kph on the right lane when i got overtaken by a mercedes box car and a mercedes station wagon with blue lights and emergency horn... with at LEAST 20kph surplus. Never knew those box trucks can go that fast with all that EMT equipment... Lets hope they reached their target without accident and in time for
10:56 AM Loetmichel: the patient to be saved. True r/HFY material IMHO!
10:56 AM roycroft: i got lucky, i guess
10:57 AM roycroft: but i avoid amazon marketplace sellers
10:57 AM roycroft: i think that's the problem
10:57 AM roycroft: i don't think amazon would sell counterfeit mitutoyo calipers directly
10:59 AM roycroft: loetmichel: and i was in france once, in the alsace-lorraine region, and we passed a french police officer with a radar gun clocking people on the autoroute
10:59 AM roycroft: iirc the speed limit was 120km/h then
10:59 AM roycroft: his pursuit vehicle was an air-cooled vw beetle
10:59 AM Loetmichel: harhar
11:00 AM roycroft: first of all, were citroen and renault so crappy then that the french actually used german cars?
11:00 AM roycroft: (this was the 1970s, so yes)
11:00 AM aaroncnc: they have a mixed inventory system, i hate it. a good seller can get screwed because they mixed in other sellers inventory into the same box. it only takes 1 bad seller mixing in fakes to kill all the good ones and there is little recourse.
11:00 AM Loetmichel: point i wanted to make: To risk his neck for a total stranger is really noble. And make no mistake: even on german autobahns: 180kph in an overloaded mercedes box car IS dangerous, especially in heavy end of work traffic.
11:00 AM roycroft: second, a beetle takes like 5 minutes to go from 0-100km/h
11:02 AM roycroft: by which time the speeder is almost to luxembourg
11:03 AM Loetmichel: roycroft: my wife drives a new mercedes GLC350e. 2 tons of SUV... but 211 petrol HP and 85kw electric on top.
11:03 AM Loetmichel: THAT thing can RUN. ;)
11:03 AM Loetmichel: But a box car?
11:03 AM roycroft: i've driven on the autobahn at 140km/h, which was pretty fast for me
11:03 AM roycroft: people were flying by in the passing lane like i was standing still
11:04 AM Loetmichel: those: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rettungswagen#/media/Datei:Peter_Stehlik_2010.08.22_005b.jpg
11:05 AM Loetmichel: imagine driving 160kph and getting overtaken by that thing in seconds.
11:05 AM roycroft: i see that going 180, with a big, turbocharged engine
11:05 AM Loetmichel: they truely have nerves of steel
11:06 AM roycroft: as long as the center of gravity is low, and it has good tires (10 ply), it should be able to handle the speed fine
11:06 AM roycroft: it's probably as aerodynamic as a box vehicle can be
11:52 AM aaroncnc: can pwmgen be ran in the servo thread?
11:52 AM aaroncnc: maybe can is not the best but any side effects of doing so?
01:33 PM pcw_home: aaroncnc: You can use software PWM with just a servo thread but either the resolution or frequency will be limited
01:34 PM pcw_home: So for example 100 HZ PWM would be limited to 10 discrete steps at a 1 KHz update rate
01:37 PM pcw_home: At 10 Hz you could get 1 % resolution but this would require a quite low frequency filter.
01:39 PM pcw_home: You can improve the situation by using PDM which is easier to filter: a 50% duty cycle PWM at 10 Hz would be 50 ms on, 50 ms off, but a 50% duty cycle PDM waveform at 1 KHz update rate would be 1 ms on, 1 ms off = much easier to filter
03:12 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by tepper.freenode.net
03:59 PM aaroncnc: pcw_home, thanks
04:21 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:41 PM veegee: fucking canada post
04:41 PM veegee: They have this phone number for use with "telecommunication devices for the deaf"
04:41 PM veegee: I don't want to wait on hold forever. How do I use this number instead?
04:42 PM XXCoder: use real tty
04:42 PM XXCoder: keep in mind you'll be blocking deaf people for your convience but yeah
04:46 PM veegee: That's on canada post for being shitty
04:46 PM XXCoder: no its on you if you decide to block deaf people
04:47 PM veegee: It's not blocking them
04:47 PM XXCoder: its like parking at disabled parking spot because parking is full
04:47 PM XXCoder: sure store have too small parking lot, but you still parked at disabled parking spot
04:47 PM XXCoder: tty lines do not have waiting system
04:49 PM veegee: Eh that's on them
04:49 PM veegee: https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT207033
04:49 PM veegee: Deaf dude can try again in 10 minutes
04:52 PM roycroft: you really are an asshole, veegee
04:52 PM roycroft: you don't just play one on irc
04:52 PM XXCoder: people will assume weird things about you veegee when they think you are deaf.
04:53 PM XXCoder: and if you tell them you are not deaf, they will correctly assume that you are an asshole.
04:53 PM veegee: Why would I tell them anything?
04:53 PM XXCoder: then you get to enjoy weird assumations then
04:54 PM veegee: That's fine with me
04:54 PM XXCoder: what a perfect asshole
04:56 PM veegee: This is cool
04:56 PM veegee: All calls should be like this
04:56 PM veegee: And FYI, there is call waiting
04:56 PM veegee: of course there is...
04:56 PM veegee: This is 2021, they have routing software, obviously
04:57 PM XXCoder: i doubt you got a tty
04:57 PM veegee: It's telling me to "please hold"
04:57 PM XXCoder: i very very much doubt it
04:57 PM veegee: I literally see it on my phone
04:57 PM veegee: exactly like the apple support document shows
04:57 PM veegee: it's sending it to me character by character
04:58 PM XXCoder: lol you went the asshole way and STILL gets wait time same as phonbe call
04:58 PM XXCoder: congats man
04:58 PM veegee: Totally worth it, I don't have to listen to hold music
04:59 PM veegee: And I get to learn that you have a crazy holier than thou complex
05:00 PM XXCoder: lol nah
05:00 PM XXCoder: just that i get tired with people using services intended for specific people
05:01 PM veegee: are you deaf?
05:01 PM XXCoder: does that change anything? no.
05:01 PM roycroft: go fuck yourself, veegee
05:01 PM roycroft: having consideration for other people is not being "holier than thou"
05:01 PM rs[m]: +1
05:02 PM veegee: it's funny because you _think_ you have consideration for other people
05:02 PM roycroft: i don't think i have consideration for assholes like you
05:02 PM roycroft: i know that i don't
05:03 PM roycroft: i'll shut up now
05:03 PM veegee: it's definitely self image issues
05:03 PM roycroft: this isn't helping anyone
05:03 PM XXCoder: agreed, its self image issues for you. you feel you deserve a way to bypass waiting line
05:03 PM XXCoder: ie privileged over others.
05:04 PM veegee: no, I'm totally fine with waiting
05:04 PM XXCoder: lying
05:04 PM veegee: They offer a service, I have just as much a right to use it as anyone else
05:05 PM XXCoder: <veegee> I don't want to wait on hold forever. How do I use this number instead?
05:05 PM veegee: Well waiting via audio
05:05 PM XXCoder: lying
05:05 PM veegee: Text is fine
05:05 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, you don't have blocking on your irc client?
05:05 PM roycroft: i prefer not to put people on /ignore
05:05 PM roycroft: i do when necessary
05:06 PM XXCoder: man jt needs better network connection heh
05:06 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:07 PM perry_j1987: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iIsibuIs08
05:07 PM perry_j1987: interesting
05:08 PM XXCoder: saw that, its pretty cool
05:08 PM XXCoder: plenty of backlash but should be fine for many applications
05:12 PM veegee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKXc7EzgJh4
05:17 PM JT-Shop: yeah I wonder why it keeps dropping out when it's not even raining here
05:18 PM roycroft: it's all those people with their 5g vaccination chips
05:18 PM XXCoder: if i become billionaire im running a fiber line to your home jt
05:18 PM roycroft: they're overwhelming the network
05:18 PM XXCoder: roy yeppers though my phone never dropped from 5 bar ever since i got second vaccine... ;)
05:19 PM JT-Shop: there is fiber 1.5 miles from my house and it's not connected to anything on either end
05:20 PM XXCoder: yeah it was from dumb program in goverment. they paid isps to build fiber lines, but didnt require them to USE em
05:20 PM XXCoder: so theres tons of dark fiber everywhere
05:20 PM JT-Shop: it runs up and down most highways around here for sure
05:21 PM XXCoder: google tried to buy into and use those fibers
05:21 PM JT-Shop: fiber installers only install the cable
05:21 PM XXCoder: but it seems to have hugely stalled now
05:22 PM JT-Shop: I'm pretty sure my dish is not pointed exactly right because the slab settled a bit in one corner
05:22 PM XXCoder: adjustment time
05:22 PM JT-Shop: need to jack it back up level and pour more concrete under the concrete
05:22 PM roycroft: the grant we got was worse
05:22 PM roycroft: this was one of the 2008 stimulus grants
05:23 PM roycroft: it paide for installing the fiber optic cables
05:23 PM roycroft: but required that 1/2 the strands be reserved for the government agency who installed it
05:24 PM roycroft: we installed several miles and the city (not the owner/installer) immediately lit up 1/2 of the strands
05:24 PM JT-Shop: is it even being used?
05:24 PM roycroft: but legally could not gain access to the other half
05:24 PM roycroft: the 1/2 that were reserved are still there, unlit
05:24 PM JT-Shop: that just sucks
05:24 PM roycroft: and the city had to go find money to install more fiber optic cable parallel to the original
05:24 PM roycroft: it does
05:25 PM roycroft: i'm not anti-government
05:25 PM XXCoder: does they cover entire cost of installation (one half reserved)?
05:25 PM roycroft: but government bureaucracy sometimes really sucks
05:25 PM roycroft: the grant paid for all of it
05:25 PM roycroft: so the city definitely got benefit from it
05:26 PM roycroft: what sucks worse is that when the city needed more fiber, it was for an economic stimulus project
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: I think we are really going to see some rebuilding of infrastructure since the cost of building materials has doubled
05:27 PM roycroft: unemployment was about 15%, and they were trying to bring in a big call center
05:27 PM roycroft: which they almost did
05:27 PM roycroft: but they needed more fiber to feed the call center
05:27 PM CaptHindsight: don't be surprised of fiber doubles in price as well
05:27 PM roycroft: and it took a year and a half to get the money to install the fiber
05:27 PM roycroft: by which time all the call center prospects (there were three of them) had moved on to other cities
05:28 PM roycroft: the other government agency, who actually owned the fiber, wanted to give the city use of more, but the feds would not allow it
05:28 PM roycroft: this is a small town, btw
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: do you recall how many pairs of fiber they installed per run?
05:29 PM roycroft: 150 jobs would have made a big dent in the unemployment rate
05:29 PM roycroft: they installed 48 strands
05:29 PM roycroft: the fiber that *i* installed for the city was always 288 strands on the backbones
05:29 PM roycroft: but this grant was only 48
05:29 PM roycroft: i did not get it
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: all single mode stuff?
05:29 PM roycroft: yes
05:30 PM roycroft: the overwhelming majority of the cost installing fiber underground is in the design and trenching/boring/installation
05:30 PM roycroft: the cost of the fiber itself is almost nothing compared to the rest of the cost
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: 24 is a shitload, are they runnimng them at 10Gb?
05:31 PM roycroft: it's mostly 1Gb/s
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: ok then
05:31 PM roycroft: when we installed it, 1Gb/s was pretty standard
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: makes sense why they need more
05:31 PM roycroft: 10Gb/s is standard now, but they never upgraded anything
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: yes, those were the days
05:32 PM roycroft: when i do back of the napkin cost estimating i figure between $20 and $30/foot for putting conduit in the ground and installing vaults
05:32 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:32 PM roycroft: and a penny per strand*foot for the fiber
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: in a former life I used to do that work
05:32 PM roycroft: so 288 strand fiber adds $3/foot to a $20-$30/foot cost
05:33 PM roycroft: 48 strand fiber adds $0.50/foot
05:33 PM roycroft: so it's a $2.50/foot upgrade
05:33 PM roycroft: which is around 10% of the total cost
05:33 PM roycroft: except when you don't pull enough fiber, it's a $100% or more upgrade to pull the rest
05:33 PM roycroft: s/$//
05:34 PM roycroft: before they started that build i already had a splice plan for splicing the 24 city strands, and the city already had prospects for more fiber
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: when electronic trading took off they tore up the streets to run new fiber downtown
05:34 PM roycroft: so we knew before they started that we'd be short on fiber almost on day one
05:35 PM roycroft: we don't do that
05:35 PM roycroft: when the streets are being torn up anyway it's a good time to lay new conduits in the ground
05:35 PM roycroft: but we mostly do horizontal boring
05:35 PM roycroft: it's a lot cheaper than tearing up the streets, and much less disruptive
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: it's gambling with the odds towards whoever has the fastest connection
05:36 PM roycroft: the trading data centers are crazy
05:36 PM roycroft: they have to make every cable the exact same length, no matter where it runs, so that nobody has a sub-millisecond advantage
05:36 PM CaptHindsight: it's not really trading if you can see the other offers and then place yours milliseconds before theirs arrive
05:37 PM roycroft: i get why they have to do it
05:37 PM roycroft: it's still crazy though
05:37 PM roycroft: and very expensive
05:37 PM roycroft: and wasteful of materials
05:37 PM roycroft: but yeah, i totally understand why
05:40 PM roycroft: wow
05:40 PM roycroft: bill and melinda gates are divorcing
05:42 PM veegee: LOL
05:42 PM veegee: I'm surprised it took that long
05:42 PM veegee: and really what's the point at this age
05:43 PM veegee: is he going to go out and get himself a new girl?
06:18 PM NoGodDamnIdea: _unreal_, as an update before i go to sleep
06:18 PM NoGodDamnIdea: i fixed it
06:18 PM NoGodDamnIdea: i had to invert the homing direction
06:18 PM NoGodDamnIdea: that was the problem
06:18 PM NoGodDamnIdea: night yall
06:22 PM roycroft: well, i don't know what's going on
06:23 PM roycroft: the other day when i was using my belt grinder there was a "pop" and the circuit breaker blew
06:23 PM roycroft: no blue smoke though
06:23 PM roycroft: i just checked the wiring and everything looks good
06:23 PM roycroft: the vfd powers up, but when i try to engage the motor the vfd makes a beeping noise and throws up two undocumented error codes in sequenece
06:24 PM Tom_L: ohm the motor wires
06:24 PM roycroft: one of them starts with "e.o.", which is a load side problem
06:25 PM Tom_L: maybe one leg is bad
06:25 PM roycroft: yes, i'm starting to suspect the motor
06:25 PM roycroft: i have a project to work on today
06:25 PM roycroft: not a repair to effect
06:25 PM roycroft: and i need the belt grinder for the project
06:25 PM Tom_L: one step --> two steps <----
06:25 PM roycroft: well, i could do some hand filing
06:25 PM roycroft: i'll do a bit more checking first
06:26 PM roycroft: if i can't figure it out in a half hour i'll move on to the other project
06:27 PM XXCoder: roycroft: yeah sometimes feelings for each other just fades away
06:27 PM roycroft: the motor is open frame, but i did build a shield around it, and it's not dusty
06:27 PM XXCoder: and whats left isnt worthy of keep going
06:27 PM roycroft: xxcoder: yes, that is true
06:27 PM roycroft: they still appear together frequently, and seem happy
06:28 PM roycroft: but they are reasonable, mature people both
06:28 PM roycroft: i don't know anything about their relationship or what happened, but they don't strike me as the "bitter divorce" type of couple
06:28 PM XXCoder: almost for sure they have nup agreement, and they definitely arent children in adult bodies so i bet seperation would be very smooth
06:28 PM roycroft: they will probably just move on and remian friends
06:28 PM XXCoder: yeah
06:29 PM roycroft: they are giving away most of their money via the gates foundation
06:29 PM roycroft: there won't be any greedy bastardism involved, i would bet
06:29 PM XXCoder: yea
06:29 PM XXCoder: ms may be pretty asshole company back then, but it doesnt always mean owner was assho;le
06:30 PM * roycroft heads out to see what's going on with the belt grinder, having found no useful information in the vfd manual
06:30 PM roycroft: i never had any problem with bill gates
06:30 PM XXCoder: me either
06:30 PM roycroft: i think he was a mediocre coder, but he was the right guy in the right place at the right time, and built a hugely successfull business
06:30 PM XXCoder: i dont belive those bullshit people about 5g and vaccine stuff
06:30 PM roycroft: and has managed his money very well
06:31 PM XXCoder: ironically there is people who think bill gates want to kill people
06:31 PM roycroft: well you can't, because what they're talking about is physically impossible :)
06:31 PM XXCoder: uhhh what lol
06:31 PM roycroft: anyway, i'm off to the shop again
06:31 PM XXCoder: later :)
06:32 PM XXCoder: roy indeed its laughable, because actual chip inject syrenge is MUCH thicker rod
06:32 PM XXCoder: no way to miss that
06:34 PM XXCoder: roycroft: https://twitter.com/melgillman/status/1282516458166255618
06:35 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, so they say :D
06:35 PM XXCoder: lol
06:41 PM * JT-Cave has a bunch of stuff loaded in the van to start installing the spoke machine automation
06:44 PM roycroft: xxcoder: not to mention that there are 5-7 doses in a vial
06:44 PM roycroft: there's no way one could suck up exactly one chip per dose
06:44 PM roycroft: anyway
06:44 PM XXCoder: JT-Cave: nice! finished second one and installing now?
06:45 PM roycroft: i took the cover off the vfd to see if it was trying to send any current to the motor, before pulling the motor
06:45 PM XXCoder: roy yea i suppose can have chip in syrenge lol but then it'd be big like one i linked to lol
06:45 PM roycroft: and this time the blue smoke escaped
06:45 PM XXCoder: aw. expensive smoke, that
06:45 PM roycroft: so at the very least, i need a new vfd
06:45 PM roycroft: and i still don't know about the motor
06:45 PM * roycroft wonders if he still has a spare vfd
06:46 PM roycroft: but i just remembered that i still have my old, tiny, wimpy 1x30 belt grinder
06:46 PM roycroft: and all i need to do is minor shaping on some aluminium angle, so i'll use that
06:46 PM roycroft: i almost put it on cl last summer - i'm glad i didn't
06:47 PM roycroft: btw, the circuit breaker did not pop this time
06:47 PM roycroft: but i'll have plenty of time to pull the motor and diagnose it on the bench, instead of trying to do so with it installed
06:47 PM roycroft: and maybe it's time to upgrade to a better vfd
06:47 PM roycroft: if the motor is ok that is what i might do
06:48 PM XXCoder: cool :)
06:49 PM Tom_L: one of my local industrial shops started carrying vfds recently
06:49 PM XXCoder: variable freq driver right?
06:50 PM roycroft: yes
06:51 PM roycroft: i actually can't remember the last time i ran the belt grinder at less than full speed
06:51 PM roycroft: it's entirely possible that, should it turn out to be both the motor and the vfd that have gone bad, i'll just stick a single phase fixe speed motor on it and call it dne
06:51 PM roycroft: done
06:52 PM roycroft: of course, the day after i do that i'll need to grind something at slow speed
06:53 PM XXCoder: have 2 single drivers
06:53 PM XXCoder: one for high speed and one for low
06:53 PM XXCoder: use a switch for low, off, high
06:56 PM Tom_L: low, high, warp
06:56 PM XXCoder: plaid
06:56 PM XXCoder: "they have gone plaid!
06:57 PM XXCoder: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/spaceballs/images/f/fc/Plaid_Ludicrous_Speed.gif/revision/latest?cb=20181205222512
07:24 PM roycroft: i think it's time to give up for the day
07:24 PM roycroft: the blue smoke just made an escape from my 1x30 grinder
07:25 PM roycroft: all i was doing was deburring a small piece of steel
07:25 PM XXCoder: :(
07:25 PM roycroft: oh well, that grinder will no longer occupy precious real estate
07:26 PM roycroft: i do have some 6" and 8" bench grinders, but i don't like using them
07:26 PM roycroft: and i won't use them on aluminium
07:26 PM roycroft: but i can finish the steel part with one
07:27 PM roycroft: i hadn't used that 1x30 in many years until just now, so it may have been waiting to blow up
07:34 PM Tom_L: seems they both were
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09:39 PM _unreal_: wholy hell took him 3 weeks to figure that out? <NoGodDamnIdea> i had to invert the homing direction
09:39 PM _unreal_: well at least he fixed it
09:49 PM snakedGT is now known as snaked
11:15 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: Get an old PMDC treadmill motor and stick a $20 PWM controller on it.
11:15 PM * Bleepshop has 90% of the parts needed and has been too busy with the CNC to work on the sander and too short on steel to finish it.
11:21 PM roycroft: i'm actually thinking that if the motor needs replacement as well that i might upgrade it from 2hp to 3hp
11:21 PM roycroft: 2hp has been nice, but i have been able to bog it down a bit when i grind really hard
11:21 PM roycroft: i almost went with 3hp when i built it
11:21 PM roycroft: i can't see ever needing more power than that though
11:22 PM roycroft: that also depends on whether or not i have a spare vfd, and i think i might, but i haven't run across it yet
11:23 PM roycroft: it will be this weekend before i have any time to get back to the belt grinder problem
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