#linuxcnc Logs
May 02 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:11 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:53 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:57 AM Deejay: moin
02:08 AM mrec_: so finally the spindle speed is also interfaced of my cheap chinese lathe
02:08 AM mrec_: that will improve parting a lot again
02:08 AM XXCoder: nice
02:09 AM mrec_: either the chinese will give me a controller update to allow stopping the spindle or I'll design a VFD for it by myself.
02:10 AM mrec_: the min RPM is 20
02:13 AM XXCoder: wow nice
02:13 AM XXCoder: mine is rather high rpm
02:13 AM XXCoder: 24000
02:13 AM XXCoder: lower the rpm, weaker it is, though i had added "encoder"
02:13 AM XXCoder: so it could add more volts if its spinning too slow when cutting
02:32 AM mrec_: I want to have a speed profile on parting
02:33 AM mrec_: outer radius with lower rpm and inner one with faster one of course
02:33 AM mrec_: I only finished the profile for parting 22mm steel yesterday (but I was using the potentiometer manually)
02:34 AM mrec_: too high rpm on the outside will give a screaming noise, too low will make it stall
03:03 AM Bleepshop: CaptHindsight: Ah. So the system is blind as a bat like I am when it comes to SMD parts and the solution is the same, lots of light and magnification. LOL
03:03 AM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/4ZEHNbmz_9A printing press history. very good videpo
03:03 AM XXCoder: JT-Cave: you might like it
03:05 AM Bleepshop|2 is now known as Bleep-CNC
03:06 AM Bleep-CNC: Hurray! The monitor arm works and it's not too terribly bendy.
03:06 AM XXCoder: yay!
03:06 AM XXCoder: pics or it didnt happen
03:07 AM Bleep-CNC: Yeah, I need to fab a keyboard/mouse tray for it tomorrow so I can get them of the table too.
03:09 AM Bleep-CNC: Pics later. I may rip all this out tomorrow and burn up most of my 8020 odds and ends because the old aluminum power pole I used for the upright is a little bit spagetti whel I pull the monitor to the far corner and it'll be worse with teh keyobard tray on it.
03:09 AM XXCoder: :)
03:12 AM Bleep-CNC: I already had to pull the arm back off and replace the short center spacer with a full length spline to stiffen it up so it didn't droop 30 degrees with the monitor rotated +/- 45 of center.
03:15 AM Bleep-CNC: But that's what I get for using 2 - 5' lengths of old track lighting bolted together with spacers and massive Acetron cap blocks on both ends as the bearings.
03:15 AM XXCoder: man
03:16 AM XXCoder: that video is AMAZING\
03:16 AM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/4ZEHNbmz_9A btw if curiois
03:28 AM Bleep-CNC: XXCoder: Plus I'm gonna have to clean up the pile of leftover parts behind me before I can back up far enough to get a picture. LOL
03:29 AM XXCoder: lol
03:31 AM * Bleep-CNC made a bit of a mess dragging out bins of hardware, chunks of stock to try for fit and there's still that damn parachute pack taking up space.
03:32 AM Bleep-CNC: Anybody want enough material for a large tent and a bunch of unfasionable robes to start a cult with ? ;D
03:33 AM XXCoder: the church of holy oarachute
03:33 AM XXCoder: good chance im way too far from you lol
03:33 AM Bleep-CNC: 64' cargo chute is a shitton of fabric. LOL
03:34 AM * Bleep-CNC is in Northern New Mexico
03:34 AM XXCoder: yep LOL
03:34 AM XXCoder: im all way to corner of usa
03:34 AM XXCoder: tacoma, wa
03:34 AM Bleep-CNC: And I may already have my first paying gig lined up for this thing. got a friend that wants a new set of house numbers.
03:35 AM XXCoder: awesome! :D
03:37 AM Bleep-CNC: XXCoder: Shit, if I was up there I'd be looking for anyplace that ends up with surplus from Boeing and seeing what goodies I could score.
03:37 AM XXCoder: i suck real bad on connections
03:37 AM XXCoder: plus people tend to be not willing to listen to deaf guy
03:38 AM Bleep-CNC: Ah, So you need to be able to track things down and set things up via web/e-mail
03:39 AM Bleep-CNC: Crap! It's 02:30 here. I need to go fall over and deal with the cleanup tomorrow.
03:40 AM XXCoder: lol later
03:40 AM Bleep-CNC: Laters.
04:50 AM ronox: hey, on ali theres a flash sale for some 2040 v slot and i was wondering how significant are the differences in the axis i can make with 2040 vs just 2020?
04:51 AM ronox: im not exactly flush with cash right now though so its actually a somewhat significant decision right now
04:51 AM XXCoder: it woul certainly be far stiffer in one direction
04:51 AM ronox: for a cnc router would it matter at all?
04:52 AM ronox: on a router it wouldnt have an active z-axis mind you
04:54 AM XXCoder: actually yeah
04:54 AM XXCoder: if you design it with wider part in direction of stress it would disort less
04:57 AM ronox: would i only really see the benefits usint the 2040 for the given axis, or do people also just make the whole frame out of it also?
04:57 AM ronox: im only gonna be getting 2x 600mm cuts
04:57 AM ronox: the price difference between 600 and 700 is $12 going up to $18
04:57 AM XXCoder: watch out on shipping
04:57 AM ronox: im guessing thats where postage hikes up
04:57 AM ronox: its free
04:57 AM XXCoder: i had to make 4 seperate orders of 550mm extrusions due to shipping
04:57 AM ronox: and epacket so ill have it in like 2 weeks
04:58 AM XXCoder: add 2 and see if still free
05:00 AM ronox: seems so
05:00 AM XXCoder: thats good
05:00 AM ronox: i mean, its free for 1 as well, the price is postage inclusive
05:00 AM ronox: if theres any trouble i would imagine they will just split the order
05:00 AM XXCoder: in my case i could add 2 for free
05:00 AM XXCoder: then it gets expensive shipping fast
05:00 AM XXCoder: thats why i had to make few orders
05:01 AM XXCoder: pone
05:03 AM ronox: i can still buy v slot locally but not this cheap
05:03 AM ronox: well, i could probably get it nice and cheap if only i could find it somewhere its physically sold at without adding postage into the equation XD
05:04 AM ronox: looks like ill just get the 2 600mm lengths of 2040 and see what i can do with it
05:04 AM ronox: btw, what is so special about the v-slot wheels with the triangular notch cut out of them?
05:04 AM ronox: https://ae04.alicdn.com/kf/H8f8b2f8148cd4a1db41abf1fdd94faaf6.jpg
05:04 AM ronox: these
05:05 AM XXCoder: im not sure
05:05 AM XXCoder: better precision and centering i would guess but besides that dunno
05:05 AM XXCoder: what router will cut?
05:12 AM ronox: wood and plastic
05:12 AM ronox: aluminum if i can make it do it
05:12 AM ronox: but not really holding my breath for that
05:13 AM XXCoder: extrusions have to be very stiff for alum
05:13 AM XXCoder: meaning 4040 and such
05:13 AM XXCoder: 2040 can do it, if you frame em well
05:13 AM ronox: mostly it will be cutting out usable flat sections from scrap
05:13 AM XXCoder: cool :)
05:13 AM XXCoder: no melt and casting?
05:13 AM ronox: nah
05:14 AM ronox: i mean eventually ill be cutting down those large boards into smaller ones for application specific purposes but ill more or less just be cutting out squares
05:16 AM ronox: do you think it would be able to cut alu, but just not very accurately? or not at all?
05:16 AM ronox: because if i was cutting alu with it, it would probably just be for cutting a thick baseplate that doesnt really need any sort of precision aside from the location of drilled holes
05:17 AM ronox: hmm
05:17 AM XXCoder: yeah drilling shouldnt be big issue if thin
05:18 AM ronox: i guess though in that case i could just stick an engraver on it to mark where i need to cut with angle grinder and just use the router for precisely placing mounting holes in there
05:18 AM ronox: often the holes just need to be placed accurately relative to one another but not really relative to the plate itself
05:19 AM ronox: but its not easy to measure a hole out and put it an exact distance from the last one
05:19 AM ronox: unless you have a nice measuring cross slide perhaps
05:19 AM ronox: a router though is perfect for the job
05:20 AM ronox: hmm, since ill be engraving with it too i guess i probably will need to make it have a Z axis after all
05:20 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:21 AM XXCoder: you can make pretty small one easy to make
05:21 AM ronox: the point of this though is for large cuts
05:21 AM ronox: large frame-like stuff youd otherwise need a chonky lasercutter for
05:22 AM ronox: it bothers me i still cant readily pump out parts for axial machines like a 3D printer is
05:22 AM ronox: https://hackaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/DIY-Arduiuno-based-Toroid-coil-winding-Machine-_-Arduino-project-22-52-screenshot.png?w=800
05:22 AM ronox: like look at this thing here
05:23 AM ronox: i wanna just be able to casually cut some scraps and make the frame for that no big deal
05:31 AM ronox: 3D printers are pretty trash at making large structural objects
05:32 AM XXCoder: theres always luban
05:32 AM XXCoder: but its quite expensive
05:32 AM ronox: and its not exactly fun either to try adhering a 3D printed part to a slab of wood to finish the specific 2D profile seperating the basic cuts as wood and the complex / precise ones as plastic
05:33 AM ronox: whats luban?
05:35 AM XXCoder: its program that cuts big model into smaller parts
05:36 AM XXCoder: with pegs etc
05:36 AM ronox: ah
05:36 AM XXCoder: with many other features
05:36 AM XXCoder: its NOT luban cad, thats different program
05:36 AM ronox: yeah i have no issue with that, its moreso i dont like to do it since it makes the thing overall weaker
05:37 AM ronox: im kinda sick and tired of having to needlessly screw bolt and glue things together just because the printer cant deal with the size or shape
05:37 AM XXCoder: someone made 500x1000mm printer
05:37 AM XXCoder: crazy
05:38 AM XXCoder: theres video on it if curious. he sells plans
05:41 AM ronoxx: oh
05:42 AM ronoxx: whats the Z, or missing 3rd dimension?
05:42 AM XXCoder: actually not sure
05:42 AM XXCoder: something like 300?
05:42 AM XXCoder: maybe 400'
05:43 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhBdMpEGH0o
05:43 AM ronoxx: stil that thing must take weeks to complete a print
05:44 AM XXCoder: my mistake, height is way more
05:44 AM XXCoder: bigger nozzle actually
05:48 AM ronoxx: jeez
05:48 AM ronoxx: thats big
05:48 AM ronoxx: at that point though it seems like a better idea to just print the shapes out hollow, then fill them up with filler-foam
05:49 AM XXCoder: indeed
05:49 AM ronoxx: oh
05:49 AM ronoxx: that reminds me
05:49 AM ronoxx: i still need to test out my can of filler foam
05:50 AM ronoxx: my i2 has a nice rigid frame so i figure it should be cool to put my dremel on that via a flexible shaft for some foam milling
05:50 AM ronoxx: just for nice shapes to then paint
05:51 AM XXCoder: im considering converting my el crapo into plotter and cutter
05:52 AM ronoxx: if filler foam works like i think it does, its gonna be SOOOO useful for large projects, im just gonna spam the shit out of
05:53 AM XXCoder: i just had a tought
05:53 AM XXCoder: hollow 3d printed frame
05:53 AM XXCoder: foam fill it
05:53 AM XXCoder: or make it mold for foam fill, remove cast then paint stuff
05:53 AM XXCoder: need some good seperaror though
06:12 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:23 AM Tom_L: morning
06:54 AM JT-Cave: I've not been waking up as early as usual lately...
08:36 AM Tom_L: one day i get to sleep in
10:42 AM JT-Cave: there goes my easy day the fridge is broken
10:44 AM pcw_home: Not fun especially if its stopped cooling...
11:00 AM SquirrelMan5k: especially because you only notice it after everything in the fridge has warmed up. and is no longer good eating
11:26 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:27 AM JT-Cave: hmm... dunno seems to be working now
11:40 AM roycroft: easy fix
11:40 AM roycroft: just wait a few minutes
11:43 AM JT-Cave: now my menus and desktop items are missing on debian 10...
11:49 AM Tom_L: got a bug wandering from appliance to appliance there?
11:51 AM Eric__: missing menus used to be a common occurrence for me with one iteration of ubuntu
11:52 AM Eric__: not so common that I would remember how to fix it when it happened again
12:03 PM JT-Cave: the cat broke the fridge...
12:09 PM Bleepshop: JT-Cave: Stealing the mice out of the wheel powering it ? ;D
12:10 PM mrec_: did anyone do a motor controller by himself already? I wonder if the spindle has some load - once the load disappears the speed is overshooting quite a lot. Is this something that can be solved with a better controller or does that need a better mechanical solution?
12:11 PM Bleepshop: mrec_: PID loop for speed control ?
12:12 PM mrec_: Bleepshop: I don't really know I have to check if there's some feedback at all from the motor (I did not pay attention to it yet)
12:12 PM mrec_: but I wonder if that kind of overshooting from higher load to lower load is something "natural" or what options are available to fix this
12:13 PM Bleepshop: You'll need an oscilloscope or frquency counter to check the output of your spindle speed sensor if it's a high-speed spindle .
12:15 PM * Bleepshop is running a 21K RPM Porter Cable router for a cutter head and will have to get creative to get spindle speed feedback.
12:17 PM sensille: mrec_: is that a BLDC?
12:18 PM sensille: (a 'yes' would be somewhat surprising to me)
12:18 PM Bleepshop: sensille: My router is up and running. I found out it cuts steel like butter when I took a chunk out of an 1/8" plate holddown clamp accidentally. LOL
12:20 PM sensille: already crippling itself?
12:23 PM Bleepshop: sensille: Nope, I'm using cheap sink mounting hardware since I found a handfull of them at Habitat. They make great holddowns for the tapped holes in the table. https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/FKYAAOSwqdVc3uFo/s-l300.jpg
12:23 PM rs[m]: mrec_: do you know stmbl?
12:28 PM mrec_: sensille: it is yes
12:28 PM mrec_: a cheap chinese lathe
12:29 PM mrec_: rs[m]: never heard about it
12:29 PM sensille: i'm no expert on motor controls, but the only reason i can think of that a bldc overshoots on load change is that with the load it wasn't able to run at the set speed
12:30 PM sensille: or the load change is very rapid?
12:30 PM mrec_: yes
12:31 PM mrec_: the controller is a cheap chinese one, the manufacturer of the lathe is buying it from another company
12:32 PM Bleepshop: mrec_: Sounds like you've got teh most basic model of controller. Build or buy a better one ?
12:33 PM mrec_: Bleepshop: I think I better have a look at it and ask more precise questions in a few days
12:33 PM sensille: a BLDC can't really run without feedback
12:34 PM Bleepshop: mrec_: I'vegot an old treadmill motor on my lathe and it's set up with an encoder wheel for speed feedback and a PID loop to try to maintain a constant speed.
12:34 PM sensille: and is the overshooting a problem?
12:34 PM mrec_: I'd like to understand the problem, the controller works ok with an NC program, I just have to fiddle around with some parameters to get the result I'm looking for.
12:34 PM Bleepshop: seb_kuzminsky: On a lathe ? Yeah. Overshhot can be a reall problem.
12:35 PM mrec_: I just have no experience at the moment about overshooting on a lathe
12:35 PM * Bleepshop curses allergies, watering eyes and tab completion if nicks.
12:35 PM sensille: mine does not overshoot, though, of i've never noticed
12:36 PM mrec_: it's overshooting a lot when the load is changing, and it goes back again.
12:36 PM mrec_: when the load appears the RPM is going down, once the load is getting less it overshoots.
12:37 PM Bleepshop: It sounds like they've measuring the current on the windings to do speed control like a cheap E-bike.
12:37 PM sensille: RPM going down sounds like the bigger problem
12:37 PM sensille: or more to the core of the problem
12:37 PM mrec_: the controller is cheap.
12:38 PM mrec_: but that's ok I like to learn
12:39 PM sensille: hm. there are indeed sensorless bldc controllers
12:39 PM mrec_: that's what I think actually
12:40 PM mrec_: but I have no idea at the moment I'll take some pictures in a few days
12:40 PM Bleepshop: mrec_: If your head doesn't explode while reading it you'll get a good explanation and ideas for implementation. https://www.einfochips.com/images/partners/xilinx/Speed-Control-for-Brushless-DC-Motor-Using-PID-Algorithm.pdf
12:41 PM sensille: it measures back-EMF ...
12:41 PM mrec_: https://snipboard.io/x3qdp7.jpg
12:41 PM mrec_: I have seen a reference design from Texas Instruments, they also explain quite a bit
12:42 PM sensille: sweet, left-handed
12:42 PM mrec_: mirrored picture sorry ;-)
12:44 PM Bleepshop: mrec_: If you're feeling ambitious you could try to roll your own. https://simple-circuit.com/arduino-sensorless-bldc-motor-controller-esc/
12:45 PM mrec_: I'd prefer to have an encoder there
12:45 PM mrec_: anyway I'll continue on wednesday evening.
01:19 PM rs[m]: mrec_: https://www.st.com/resource/en/data_brief/steval-esc001v1.pdf
01:25 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:50 PM miss0r: I have a setup where one battery bank is charged by a solar array. and nother battery bank is charged by the generator on the engine in the car. I would like a unit that allows the two to be connected together, in such a way that when the solar battery bank is full, it spills over into the starter battery - and when the starter battery is charged by the generator that can spill over into the solar array batteries.
01:50 PM miss0r: BUT (theres always a but) the solar batteries are AGM batteries while the starter battery is a lead acid - so the absorbtion charging stage is not allowed on the AGM side of things, so I would want a programmable or a realy smart VSR relay. Do you guys know of such a unit?
01:53 PM DaViruz: i can't say that i do, but i would recommend investigating victron energys products, they have a lot of stuff along those lines
01:53 PM miss0r: I will google that, thanks :)
02:04 PM miss0r: god this is a jungle of ALOT of different units :) It does not seem like theres one with the specs I need, though
02:06 PM Tom_L: seems like an odd combination to charge
02:07 PM miss0r: I know. I have AGM batteries for the solar and a regular battery for the starter. I would just like for the two circuits to be able to maintain eachother
02:10 PM miss0r: Also, bright red boxes with the name KickAss written on it does not make me feel like it is a good product
02:10 PM miss0r: I don't know who would
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: https://h3cnc.github.io/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N7UBLOjsFo
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxCK5eWYymU
03:19 PM rs[m]: CaptHindsight: it doesn't look like they put the step generation into arisc driver
03:24 PM rs[m]: maybe i'm not seeing something...
03:32 PM rs[m]: seems they are using PWM generator for step generation
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: rs[m]: https://github.com/h3cnc is his latest branch, I've only run the installer on a 512MB version H3 board
03:41 PM rs[m]: it can work with PWM generation, but you have to be careful with updates of frequency
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/h3cnc/cli/blob/master/arisc.c
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: TomP has run it with motors
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: he said it throws RT errors when he starts a browser
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: not sure why if it only uses a servo threat with preempt_rt
03:44 PM CaptHindsight: threat/thread
03:44 PM rs[m]: no idea
03:45 PM CaptHindsight: i ran the latency test for servo thread at 1mS with his kernel and it was ~200uS worst case
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: running a browser just sucked up all the 512MB of RAM left and froze the system
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: will try again when I have a >1GB H3 board
03:48 PM rs[m]: maybe using a browser is not a useful test on a 512mb board
03:48 PM colten: anyone using multi-tool in qtplasmac?
03:54 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: rs[m]: sure it is, Browser test: FAIL
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: the Armbian devs actually leave compositing on as the default setting so they don't even try to tweak the settings for an ARM board
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: OTOH the Arnbian devs have fixed the broken network manager in Debian
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: you can configure networking graphically after the install
04:12 PM rs[m]: it seems rt preempt isn't that well supported on that board if it has 200µS worst case latencies on a 1ms thread
04:13 PM CaptHindsight: yeah dog of a kernel
04:13 PM CaptHindsight: haven't heard the latency results from tomp yet on his 1-2GB version Opi
04:17 PM robotustra: but why?
04:18 PM robotustra: Notebook with linuxcnc + allwiner with rtos to drive a motor?
04:18 PM robotustra: I think it's overkill
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: robotustra: don't need a notebook
04:20 PM robotustra: 500 khz? arduino + AD9833 can give it
04:20 PM robotustra: even 1Mhz
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: just H3 board and stepper drivers
04:21 PM robotustra: H3 board with linuxcnc?
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: H3 board runs Linuxcnc and software steps
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: yes, LCNC runs on the H3 board
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: no laptop needed
04:22 PM robotustra: ok then, I thought they need a laptop
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: yeah the video doesn't make it clear
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: but laptop and ESP32 should also work with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Goi4YVU0js over Ethernet
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/Deotti-cl/linuxcnc-esp32
04:24 PM robotustra: so, they need laptop anyway to see somehow the graphical output
04:26 PM rs[m]: laptop is a bad idea for rtos
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: many work well enough with Mesa over UDP
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: ESP32 is similar
04:31 PM robotustra: in the summer I come back to my lathe
04:31 PM robotustra: not now
04:45 PM roycroft: summer began yesterday
05:19 PM robotustra: Summer in Canada starts July 1st :)
05:19 PM robotustra: don't want to switch from code writing to atoms moving
05:42 PM roycroft: and summer in canada ends on 31 july
05:48 PM robotustra: captain obvious
05:51 PM robotustra: the wormest temperature today is 15C
05:52 PM robotustra: it's not a summer for sure
06:29 PM veegee: my ultrasonic cleaner brings all the dogs to the yard
06:36 PM veegee: https://www.grainger.com/product/SANDPIPER-Double-Diaphragm-Pump-6WY65
06:36 PM veegee: what the hell is this
06:37 PM veegee: "natural gas operated" diaphragm pump? '
06:37 PM veegee: Is it combusting the natural gas or what?
06:38 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:54 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:04 PM veegee: Anyone have experience using this? https://www.geckodrive.com/g540-4-axis-digital-stepper-drive.html
08:08 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:18 PM roycroft: veegee: i don't personally have experience with it, but it's probably the highest selling gecko product
08:18 PM roycroft: heaps of people use it
08:29 PM Tom_L: there _is_ something different about it and the others but i forget what it is
08:30 PM Tom_L: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/27751-gecko-g540
08:35 PM Tom_L: i'm not personally using the 540 either, i've got 203v
08:46 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:53 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:09 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:44 PM roycroft: i needed a toggle clamp with axial motion for a fixture i'm making
09:45 PM roycroft: i usually use bessey toggle clamps, as they work really well, are self-adjusting, and use a common thread - 5/16"-18
09:45 PM roycroft: but woodcraft were out of the bessey, so i got an armor brand clamp, which looks similar to the bessey, and it self-adjusting (and costs $2 more than the bessey)
09:46 PM roycroft: i needed to replace the foot with a custom piece, and figured that would be no problem
09:46 PM roycroft: i could use a piece of 5/16"-18 threaded rod and weld it onto the "foot" that i need for the fixture
09:47 PM roycroft: but the armor was not 5/16"-18
09:47 PM roycroft: ok, so it's m8-1.25
09:47 PM roycroft: i grabbed a thread gauge, and it does have a thread pitch of 1.25mm
09:47 PM roycroft: but an m8-1.25 screw will not fit
09:47 PM roycroft: so i measured, and it's actually m7.5
09:48 PM roycroft: i've never seen nor heard of an m7.5x1.25 fastener
09:50 PM roycroft: i should probably drill out the socket and tap it to m8-1.25
09:50 PM roycroft: i hate doing those kinds of mods, though
09:50 PM roycroft: so i'll probably end up making some m7.5-1.25 threaded rod
09:51 PM * roycroft just doesn't understand why manufacturers do things like this
09:53 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: HF sells toggle clamps with M8x1.25. I bought several and then had to exchange the 5/16-18 coupling nuts I had gotten to mod them for metric ones.
09:53 PM roycroft: i'd be fine with m8-1.25
09:53 PM roycroft: that's easy to work with
09:53 PM roycroft: that's a standard thread
09:53 PM roycroft: m7.5-1.25 is a bizarro alternate universe thread
09:55 PM roycroft: what if i needed a custom nose (for an inline clamp i guess it's a "nose", not a "foot") and did not have a lathe and the ability to single-point cut threads?
09:55 PM Bleepshop: It's a "Fuck you. You'll never find anything to fit this unless you buy it from us." thread size.
09:55 PM roycroft: yeah, but why?
09:55 PM roycroft: they don't make any accessories
09:56 PM roycroft: they would lose zero money by making it a standard thread size
09:56 PM roycroft: in fact, it has to cost them more to tool up for the custom thread
09:56 PM roycroft: i'll do what i need to do with this one
09:57 PM roycroft: but i'll never buy another of their clamps
09:57 PM roycroft: so the proprietary thread burns them in two ways, at least
09:57 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: That probably was a M8x1.25 tap they used for the hole when they put it on hte machine 30 years ago and it's just worn down. LOL
09:58 PM roycroft: sure
09:58 PM roycroft: but the "nose" that screws into the hole is m7.5
09:58 PM roycroft: not m8
09:59 PM roycroft: and if they use a die to make that, the die wears bigger, not smaller
09:59 PM Bleepshop: So they recycled an old M6x1.25 die for the nose ? LOL
09:59 PM roycroft: and that tap that wore down did not take 30 years to do so, unless they only make like 5 clamps/year
10:00 PM roycroft: no, this is not due to worn tooling
10:00 PM roycroft: it may be due to sloppy process control
10:00 PM Bleepshop: Did you check that against a #14 fine thread?
10:01 PM roycroft: but the major diameter of the "nose" measured 7.49mm
10:01 PM roycroft: it looked like 5/16"-18
10:01 PM roycroft: which is the common thread for such things
10:01 PM roycroft: m8-1.25 looks almost indentical
10:02 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: Yeah, I know. I've got 2 known bolt/nut pairs I keep handy for differentiating between the SAE and Metric.
10:02 PM roycroft: it's only about 0.003" larger in diameter, and the thread pitch is so close that a 5/16-18 screw can usually screw into an m8-1.25 tapped hole for a couple turns
10:03 PM Bleepshop: Run a 5/16-18 tap up it and call it good?
10:03 PM roycroft: that would seriously damage the threads
10:03 PM roycroft: it would be better to drill it for m8 and retap at m8-1.25
10:04 PM Bleepshop: Nose screws into the clamp ?
10:04 PM roycroft: yes
10:04 PM roycroft: but i don't like altering the tool
10:04 PM Bleepshop: It'll be under tension and tyou can get away with adding a nut to the nose as a hard stop.
10:04 PM roycroft: even though there's about a 0% chance i'll ever repurpose this clamp, i just don't like altering the tool
10:04 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:05 PM roycroft: so i'll probably end up turning a piece of m7.5-1.25 rod for this
10:05 PM roycroft: but none of that is relevant
10:05 PM roycroft: what i don't get is why someone would make a tool with a proprietary thread like that
10:07 PM * Bleepshop got the first chunk of 8020-40 bolted to the back of the CNC and the monitor arm mounted to it.
10:07 PM Tom_L: they thought it be superior and nobody should copy / mod it without great pains
10:07 PM roycroft: what engineer thought "hey, i can design this with a non-standard thread that is close to the standard thread, will cost more to manufacture, and will preclude customers from modifiying the clamp, making it less desirable, and will lower sales, so why not?"
10:07 PM roycroft: and what manager signed off on that?
10:07 PM Bleepshop: It does not twist along the long axis like the Hubbel pole did.
10:11 PM roycroft: there is an m7-1.0 standard thread
10:11 PM roycroft: and m8-1.25
10:11 PM roycroft: but there is no iso standard thread that is 7.5mm
10:11 PM Bleepshop: M7 semi-fine thread ?
10:11 PM roycroft: m7-0.7 would be fine thread
10:11 PM roycroft: m7-1 is coarse thread
10:12 PM roycroft: and even m7 fasteners are uncommon
10:12 PM roycroft: not from bizarro universe, but uncommon
10:13 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: Did they massively fuck up a 12-32 screw?
10:13 PM roycroft: not at al
10:13 PM roycroft: l
10:13 PM roycroft: not even a 12-24
10:13 PM roycroft: which would be a lot closer than 12-32
10:14 PM roycroft: it's not an oversize m7
10:14 PM Bleepshop: Only other thing I can think of that would be close is a 1/4-28.
10:14 PM roycroft: which is a lot smaller and a lot finer thread
10:14 PM roycroft: again, 1/4-20 would be closer
10:14 PM Tom_L: we will never know as we don't have access to the mechanical drawings
10:14 PM roycroft: the thread pitch is 1.25mm
10:14 PM Bleepshop: Roedy: Redrill and retap for M8 and call it good.
10:15 PM roycroft: which is close to 20tpi
10:15 PM Tom_L: they all seem 'close'
10:15 PM roycroft: but 1/4" is 6.35mm
10:15 PM roycroft: a fill mm smaller than this
10:15 PM * Bleepshop tries to figure out a flat spot for the scroll saw to sit while he cuts notches in Acetron blocks.
10:16 PM roycroft: again, i don't like modifying tools like that
10:16 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:16 PM roycroft: i prefer keeing the tool stock, and making the accessory to fit it
10:16 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: Then send it to me and I'll torture it's nonstandard ass... LOL
10:16 PM roycroft: i won't claim there's a rational reason to do this
10:16 PM roycroft: but it's how my brain works
10:17 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: Rational thinking is one of the last things I expect to find in a channel devoted to CNC on linux... xD
10:17 PM roycroft: i should try to track this company down, and ask them why the hell they did this
10:18 PM Tom_L: if you want to spend your time like that yeah
10:19 PM roycroft: it will take me less time to turn a piece of 5/16" rod down to m7.5 and single point thread it than i've spent discussing this right now
10:19 PM Tom_L: uh huh
10:19 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: Gonna laugh if they say they thought nobody would notice...
10:19 PM roycroft: it just bugs me that people do things like this for no reason
10:19 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:19 PM roycroft: and i can't see any reason to do it
10:19 PM roycroft: well
10:19 PM roycroft: maybe
10:19 PM roycroft: they did a big production run and the sockets were out of spec
10:20 PM roycroft: so they decided that it would be cheaper to modify the nose inserts than to toss the batch and remake it
10:20 PM XXCoder: and it was their fault
10:20 PM roycroft: i could see that as their "reason"
10:21 PM roycroft: and in fairness, for an axial motion clamp like this, probably 99.99% of users will not need to modify the nose
10:23 PM roycroft: https://armor-tool.com/product/stc-ihh15-in-line-toggle-clamp-with-horizontal-base-plate/
10:23 PM roycroft: that is the device, btw
10:29 PM XXCoder: for holding stock in?
10:30 PM roycroft: it's for attaching a fixture to my table saw
10:32 PM roycroft: i need to attach it to the fence rail, which is a piece of 1.75" diamter round tubing
10:33 PM roycroft: so i had to make a custom nose with a convex curve to get enough surface area to press against
10:34 PM XXCoder: cool :)
10:45 PM roycroft: er, a concave curve to press against the convex curve
10:45 PM XXCoder: yea m,akes sense
10:45 PM XXCoder: im 3d printing la forge visor now
10:48 PM * roycroft is watching a ds9 episode at the moment
10:49 PM XXCoder: :)
10:49 PM roycroft: i'm getting a little tired of ds9
10:49 PM roycroft: i forgot how much emphasis there is on bajoran religion
10:50 PM XXCoder: isnt it bit less focused later?
10:50 PM XXCoder: expecially the war part
10:51 PM roycroft: yeah, but i'm on season 3 right now
10:51 PM XXCoder: ok
10:51 PM roycroft: and every time a kai shows up i cringe
10:51 PM Valen: The religion bits get a bit dull. Especially that kai part.
10:51 PM roycroft: it's not that i'm anti-religion
10:52 PM XXCoder: i forgot a lot of it, but i do remember relihion bits being dull too
10:52 PM roycroft: it just gets tedious
10:52 PM Valen: I am a little. But the on and on and on about it.
10:52 PM Valen: I think "a bit tedious" describes DS9 as a whole thinking about it lol
10:53 PM Valen: Like it's got good parts. It's got great parts. But they get kinda widely spaced.
10:53 PM roycroft: every time kai winn calls kira "my child" i want to slap her
10:53 PM roycroft: the first time i saw ds9 i really disliked odo
10:53 PM roycroft: but now he's one of my favorite characters
10:54 PM Valen: every time she does something duplicitous I'd just chuck her out an airlock and save everybody a whole lot of trouble.
10:54 PM roycroft: which is every time she does anything
10:54 PM roycroft: she's definitely of jerry falwell's ilk
10:55 PM Valen: I think that's the real thing, like you can have somebody like that, but they should get their comeuppance
10:56 PM Valen: It's why I stopped watching lost in space. The "Dr smith" Kept making stupid short sighted selfish decisions over and over to drive the story along and I just got over it.
10:56 PM XXCoder: real life comeuppance usually dont happen :( sucks but well
10:56 PM roycroft: i've only watched the first few episodes of the rehash
10:56 PM roycroft: the original lost in space was great
10:57 PM roycroft: i was a little kid
10:57 PM Valen: Yeah but real life I can fantasise about punching people in the face lol
10:57 PM roycroft: and it was exceedingly campy
10:57 PM XXCoder: roy tropeific too lol
10:58 PM Valen: I liked the start of the new one. I haven't really seen the old one. I liked the premise and the characters and the whole alien robot thing was neat. But yeah just kinda turned to meh over time.
10:58 PM roycroft: the robot is nowhere near as good as the original
10:58 PM XXCoder: i loved lost in space movie
10:58 PM roycroft: they don't make robots like they did in the '60s any more
10:58 PM XXCoder: sure it was annoying at spots but great
10:59 PM Valen: The movie was pretty good.
11:00 PM Valen: I don't think you could get away with a "danger will robinson, my arms are flailing wildly" type robot today lol
11:00 PM roycroft: no, but that really was the best kind of robot
11:00 PM roycroft: and rosie, from the jetsons
11:00 PM roycroft: another great robot
11:00 PM Valen: Now rosie I can see, sasy house cleaning? sign me up
11:01 PM roycroft: i don't know
11:01 PM roycroft: i saw a video of a chicken riding a rumba the other day
11:01 PM roycroft: i don't think rosie would abide by that
11:01 PM roycroft: she doesn't seem like the chicken perching allowing type
11:02 PM XXCoder: we cant even make 60s robots now lol
11:02 PM XXCoder: (real ai
11:02 PM Valen: I have vauge recollections of that actually happening in one episode
11:02 PM roycroft: and then there was hal
11:02 PM roycroft: not a robot, but a '60s computer
11:02 PM roycroft: the likes of which we won't ever have again
11:03 PM roycroft: a modern day hal wouldn't even have a good name - it would have to be named lzb, which is lame
11:05 PM roycroft: actually, if the computer did not have to have a 3 letter name, it could be named go
11:05 PM roycroft: (rot -1 of hp)
11:06 PM roycroft: i suppose it could be qoh
11:37 PM Bleepshop: XXCoder, roycroft: Pics of the new arm with an Acer monitor, a Logitech Trackman Marble and an iMac keyboard. Yes I have a somewhat comeplete junkpile to pull parts out of. LOL
11:37 PM Bleepshop: https://imgur.com/a/dBApPR9
11:37 PM XXCoder: looking
11:37 PM XXCoder: making progress
11:38 PM Bleepshop: The sign sitting there is the test piece that came out on the money.
11:39 PM XXCoder: burn ahead or accu-cut?
11:41 PM Bleepshop: Burn ahead. The 45 angle to the lettering made it have to work to get the 3 passes on the border to line up since they were cut at 3 different points in the program.
11:42 PM * Bleepshop is going to sit down some afternoon and write a torture test for routers and mills.
11:44 PM Bleepshop: houghts? Comments? Complaints [like I'd listen] ? ;D
11:44 PM XXCoder: you need some tool holding selves but dunno otherwise
11:47 PM Bleepshop: I need to recut the Acetron blocks in the arm tomorrow and put in steps for the alloy rails to jam against as It still wants to twist if I rotate the monitor away from center.
11:49 PM Bleepshop: XXCoder: They're behind me in that shot. Bench with shelves for the lathe and machinist's boxes which I need to unpack and set up now that I have space again.
11:50 PM XXCoder: cool :)
11:51 PM Bleepshop: Right now there's one of the boxes, 2 bench grinders, 2 belt sanders and an old Craftsman benchtop drill press waiting for conversion to a magnetic base sitting where the lathe belongs.
11:53 PM * Bleepshop drags all kinds of things home from the scrapyard and rehabilitates them.
11:56 PM Bleepshop: XXCoder: What's funny is the little shelf the Xbox controller is sitting on was for the original 8 button jog pendant.
11:56 PM XXCoder: :) though there is fairly cheap pendants