#linuxcnc Logs

Apr 26 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:00 AM net|: https://netpipe.ca/?page_id=3671 if anyone wants some 7 foot rack and pinion i can probably cut some soon
12:07 AM net|: got all my parts 3 days ago
12:07 AM XXCoder: nice
12:08 AM CaptHindsight: rack and pinion for a MaslowCNC?
12:08 AM CaptHindsight: i though ti was all cable driven
12:08 AM CaptHindsight: thought even
12:12 AM Bleepshop|2: If I've got the latency cmaxed out in the configs I shouldn't be skipping step in a combined X/Y move should I ?
12:12 AM CaptHindsight: Bleepshop|2: what do you mean by "maxed out"?
12:13 AM Bleepshop|2: I'm starting to think this breakout board is bad since I had to invert the step lines to get it to run properly..
12:13 AM Bleepshop|2: 50,000
12:13 AM CaptHindsight: it depends on how the optos are wired
12:13 AM CaptHindsight: ok 50,000ns, and what was the base thread results of your matency test?
12:14 AM Bleepshop|2: If I run them as straight signals the gantry wants to go +x/-Z for a Y- move and other wierdness.
12:16 AM CaptHindsight: I need the decoder ring here :), what does "straight signals" mean?
12:16 AM Bleepshop|2: Currently 341,114 with firefox and an xfce4-term running local and this irc instance displayed on it from a remote box..
12:16 AM Bleepshop|2: Non-inverted vs inverted.
12:17 AM CaptHindsight: ok, that latency test result means that the PC is nearly unusable for softwre stepping
12:17 AM CaptHindsight: have you turned off all power managem,ent in the BIOS as well as killed any virtualization, speed stepping,etc??
12:18 AM CaptHindsight: managem,ent / management
12:18 AM Bleepshop|2: OK. So at least I've learned WTF I need to do to get this configured on a better machine in an hour instead of a month at least. LMAO
12:19 AM CaptHindsight: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Latency-Test
12:19 AM CaptHindsight: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/install/latency-test.html
12:19 AM Bleepshop|2: CaptHindsight: This is the board with the borked bios, the onboard LAN config menu is empty and I'm scared to try to reflash it without a spare EEPROM to fit teh socket.
12:20 AM CaptHindsight: Bleepshop|2: well it would require a mesa card for stepping if you don't fix the BIOS
12:20 AM Bleepshop|2: I was actually wondering how to get to the halui histogram again.
12:21 AM Bleepshop|2: Don't have a Mesa, but I do have a cheap FPGA board and the HostMot2 source. LOL
12:22 AM CaptHindsight: that is a 4-5 banana job
12:22 AM CaptHindsight: all depends on your tech monkey skilz
12:23 AM CaptHindsight: many BIOSes are broken even when properly programmed
12:23 AM CaptHindsight: so you want to try to fix the board you have or just look for another
12:24 AM CaptHindsight: my car analogy here will be: you just have a flat tire and you need to fix that before we start talking about an engine swap
12:25 AM Bleepshop|2: I've also got another couple of PCs I can try, and an RPi4 and level shifter chips so now that I've turned my learning curve into something that looks like it belongs in the genetics section of a treatise on speculative xenobiology I'll figure something out. xD
12:28 AM Bleepshop|2: Hehehe... I've been running F-Engrave remotely over ssh with a local display and using the clipboard to copy the g-code to a local file.
12:37 AM net|: CaptHindsight its to make rack and pinion from maslow yes it uses cables
12:37 AM net|: wanna start building other cncs with it
12:37 AM net|: and arcad cabinets
12:37 AM net|: arcade
12:55 AM Bleepshop|2: CaptHindsight: This thing is a beast and going to be well worth the effort I've put into it. With the head set for 15K RPM it cuts the steel clamp bars I'm using to lock the stock down like styrofoam.
12:59 AM Bleepshop|2: Alright, time to drop this box and try another one. Laters
01:00 AM Deejay: moin
01:43 AM Loetmichel: Grmbl. Dumb as can be... Managed to cut my left thumb while cutting cardboard boxes to fit the recycling box before driving to work. That leatehrman is SHARP... *bleeding again* Now i have to clean the steering wheel as well as getting some bandaids :(
01:43 AM XXCoder: oh no again
01:44 AM enleth: Loetmichel: buy that medical spray CA glue and keep it in your car
01:44 AM Loetmichel: good idea
01:44 AM enleth: with how often you mess yourself up, it'll see some use
01:45 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: nothing serious. just a 1" cut at the base of the thumb. messy and annoying though
01:45 AM XXCoder: yeah
01:45 AM XXCoder: you bled enough for 10 people by now tho ;)_
01:45 AM enleth: it works well when you spring a leak that doesn't want to stop
01:46 AM Loetmichel: nah, i'm used to it. not like i cant spare a few drops every now and then.
01:46 AM Loetmichel: its just messy. Blood sticks like glue to everything
01:46 AM XXCoder: im surpised theres no packs of vampires following you
01:48 AM roycroft: or a pack of inspectors from eu-osha
01:49 AM enleth: quick survey: earmuffs or earplugs for hearing protection?
01:50 AM enleth: (yes, I know, some here don't need any)
01:50 AM roycroft: i use noise-cancelling earmuffs, usually with a radio
01:51 AM Loetmichel: enleth: earmuffs. I dont like the feeling of something in my ear canal.
01:51 AM roycroft: i used earplugs when i was young, but i find earmuffs much more comfortable
01:52 AM roycroft: the only exception is when i'm wearing something like a welding helmet and need hearing protection
01:52 AM roycroft: i continue to use earplugs for that, but that's pretty uncommon
01:52 AM enleth: I hate in-ear headphones and used to hate earplugs for the same reason - hugely uncomfortable after putting them in - but it has changed lately, to my surprise, as I started to weld more and for hours at a time
01:53 AM enleth: earmuffs are a constant annoyance, while I stop noticing earplugs after some time
01:53 AM enleth: it's still hugely uncomfortable to put them in
01:54 AM enleth: but I started seeing that discomfort as worth the effort to endure it
01:54 AM roycroft: i don't usually need hearing protection for prolonged periods of time
01:54 AM roycroft: i'm contantly putting it on and taking it off
01:55 AM XXCoder: i do need ear protection when in very loud vibration area... for protection from abrustive dust in ears
01:55 AM enleth: XXCoder: heh, go figure
01:55 AM XXCoder: funny isnt it
01:56 AM enleth: roycroft: I've done 8 hours straight of some recreational grinding and welding several times over the past two weeks
01:56 AM enleth: overnight, without anyone to talk to, so I kept the earplugs in
01:57 AM roycroft: when i was making my workbench last summer i was milling wood for hours on end
01:57 AM roycroft: but that was exceptional, not the norm
01:57 AM enleth: that turned out to be surprisingly convenient, all things considered
02:28 AM miss0r2: goodmorning
02:34 AM miss0r2: damnit! I know I have a box of odd bearings somewhere. But right now I have no idea where!
02:38 AM net|: its probably in the last place youd look
02:38 AM Bleepshop|2 is now known as Bleep-CNC
02:39 AM Bleep-CNC: Who's awake that understands the jitter figures ?
02:39 AM miss0r2: net| It often is...
02:39 AM miss0r2: Bleep-CNC: Define awake?
02:39 AM Bleep-CNC: miss0r2: Looks like you qualify. LOL
02:40 AM miss0r2: I'll do my best. but I am no expert. What do you want to know?
02:40 AM Bleep-CNC: I'm looking at 40K / 40K for the Max Jitter figures after abusing the hell out of the machine.
02:40 AM net|: https://i.imgur.com/oBRtJft.jpg great keyboard after fixing it with paper between the pcb and back but i only have sidescroll working on one rather than 2 finger scroll
02:41 AM miss0r2: Bleep-CNC: ... yes? :)
02:43 AM Bleep-CNC: Max Interval on hte base thread is 65299 . Decent enough to try this with? I had the /home on a seperate partition to make the swapovers easy.
02:43 AM miss0r2: Bleep-CNC: "If the Max Jitter is more like 30-50 microseconds, you can still get good results, but your maximum step rate might be a little disappointing, especially if you use microstepping or have very fine pitch leadscrews." source: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Latency-Test
02:44 AM miss0r2: Bleep-CNC: I'd say roll with it
02:45 AM miss0r2: Bleep-CNC: Have you disabled stuff in your bios to reduce the jitter?
02:45 AM Bleep-CNC: Hmmm.. It's 01:30... I think the old lady might have a cow or two if I fire up the 3-1/2HP route and the shopvac right now. LOL
02:45 AM miss0r2: hehe
02:46 AM Bleep-CNC: Yeah, I turned off everything but sound and USB.
02:46 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: i'm mostly dripping the red stuff onto the floor or devices... would be awkward if a vampire would follow me to lick the floor ;)
02:46 AM miss0r2: also, certain processor features? (I can't recall which ones, but theres a good tutorial somewhere)
02:46 AM XXCoder: lol
02:46 AM XXCoder: probably put off by machinist smell too
02:46 AM miss0r2: Loetmichel: lol
02:46 AM Bleep-CNC: Power management is set to S1 and Power on after AC loss.
02:46 AM XXCoder: coolant, oils, metal flakes..
02:47 AM miss0r2: XXCoder: I had a HUGE machinist tell me that real machinist spell like piss, sweat'n cutting oil. and so he did - although I had a hard time detecting the cutting oil odor through all that...
02:47 AM Bleep-CNC: XXCoder: She was real unhappy when I fried my hands welding during sub-freezing weather.
02:48 AM Loetmichel: that said: was a bit annoying this morning when it was still bleeding... i am assembling TFT displays at the moment. The copper mesh on the shielding glasses is so thing that when you get stains on the mesh side you can only get a new glass, no chance to get the stains off. slight rubbing and the mesh gets destroyed.
02:48 AM Loetmichel: and such a glass pane is about $300
02:48 AM XXCoder: ouch, I would wear rubber gloves or finger glove
02:48 AM miss0r2: Loetmichel: Stop that bleeding, or I'll give you something to bleed about :-P
02:48 AM Loetmichel: already did stop
02:49 AM Loetmichel: as a said: this morning. read: an hour ago
02:49 AM miss0r2: good. Now that you have that under control: where did I put my bearings?!
02:49 AM miss0r2: what do I know, you might have a bleeder syndrome or something
02:49 AM Loetmichel: you will know when you step on the balls and land on your back
02:49 AM Loetmichel: :)
02:50 AM miss0r2: ffs. :D Its the second time I can't find the bearings and end up ordering a new one. but they always turn up when I don't need'em
02:50 AM Loetmichel: nah, that would be bad more like the oposite. Considering how often i injure myself accidentally i would be dead already if i was a bleeder
02:50 AM miss0r2: and right now where I don't have any particular bearing need it would be nice to find'em
02:51 AM miss0r2: hehe
02:52 AM Bleep-CNC: Not bad, not bad. I didn't get the latency error starting linuxcnc this time and my X homes at ~1"/sec.
02:53 AM Bleep-CNC: Which for a 48"x48" table is tolerable.
02:54 AM miss0r2: if you start at the oposite end :P
02:55 AM miss0r2: okay - not funny anymore! WHERE THE HELL ARE THOSE BEARINGS!
02:55 AM Bleep-CNC: miss0r2: Yeah,, I know. I'm an impatient SOB so I fast jog up close to the Sharpie lines at x0.5 y0.5 z0.5 and tell it to home. LOL
02:56 AM miss0r2: hehe
02:57 AM miss0r2: I found the box of roller bearings. NOT THE ONE I NEED
02:57 AM * miss0r2 is having a braekdown
02:57 AM XXCoder: mis i cant find my damned socket i got couple days ago lol
02:57 AM Bleep-CNC: All I've got for homes/limits is X+/- Y- and Z+
02:58 AM Bleep-CNC: XXCoder: look in the last room you were showing your new toy off to someone in ? ;D
02:58 AM miss0r2: a box of random bearings is 99% useless. If it is lost it is 110% useless (YES, it drags down overall morale with another 10%)
02:58 AM XXCoder: i know where it is roughly
02:59 AM XXCoder: im where i am seated at
02:59 AM Bleep-CNC: Well Z+ and a probe input wired for Z- or tool length compensation.
03:00 AM XXCoder: *its
03:02 AM * miss0r2 gives up and turns a bronze bushing instead
03:03 AM Bleep-CNC: Me being paranoid AF about breaking a bit or scarring the table had a chunk of foil tape stuck to the top of a 1" foam block to test the G38.2 probing command.
03:13 AM Bleep-CNC: Time to go fall over... I'll toss some scrap plywood in this thing in the morning and see if it still misses steps trying to route a sign for the shop wall. Laters all.
04:27 AM Tom_L: morning
05:34 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:01 AM JT-Shop: yo
10:20 AM veegee: Mind still blown about the sum-ting-wong vacuum pump performing to spec
10:20 AM veegee: I guess it earned the nutting-wong name now
10:26 AM veegee: What's a good blasting media to use when you need very light dirt removal
10:27 AM veegee: Like if you want to clean a painted part that is full of small features and is too annoying to scrub with a toothbrush
10:27 AM veegee: Perhaps plastic beads if that's a thing?
10:28 AM roycroft: soda blasting wold work
10:28 AM roycroft: or walnut shells
10:29 AM roycroft: walnut shells are used to clean pigeon poop off of bronze statues without damaging the patina
12:28 PM Tom_L: so on a PID loop with only KP and KI, increasing KP will make it snap to setpoint quicker? as long as it doesn't go past...
12:30 PM Tom_L: i'm wondering which term to start with to get this spindle working a little better (it's not so bad as is)
12:33 PM roycroft: i'm really having trouble finding cast iron round bar for my back plate, other than at places like granger and mcmaster, who are really really expensive
12:34 PM roycroft: none of the local steel hards have any
12:34 PM roycroft: yards
12:34 PM Tom_L: why not steel?
12:34 PM roycroft: would making a back plate out of steel be a terrible idea?
12:34 PM Tom_L: i doubt it will make that much difference in reality
12:34 PM roycroft: cast iron absorbs vibration better, and if it's dinged it chips instead of deforms
12:35 PM Tom_L: unless you're making parts for spacex or something
12:35 PM roycroft: both good qualities for a chuck back plate
12:35 PM roycroft: but that's what i was getting at
12:35 PM roycroft: steel instead of cast iron
12:35 PM Tom_L: have a piece cast to somewhat shape then turn it
12:35 PM roycroft: i can get 4" of 8" diameter cast iron for $85 and change from mcmaster - that's the best price i've found
12:36 PM roycroft: but they would probably charge me that much again for shipping
12:37 PM Tom_L: buy a back plate with an undersize thread then turn it to the one you need
12:37 PM Tom_L: then slightly true up any out of roundness
12:38 PM roycroft: i haven't found one thick enough
12:38 PM roycroft: recall that my lathe has a long nose
12:39 PM roycroft: i really need 3" at the absolute minimum to be able to clean it up and keep the spindle nose from protruding through the face
12:40 PM roycroft: actually, i can find back plates thick enough, but they cost more than the cast iron + shipping from mcmaster
12:46 PM Tom_L: old truck axle
12:46 PM Tom_L: may have too many holes in the wrong places though
12:47 PM roycroft: there are 8" back plates for south bend lathes that would work
12:47 PM roycroft: they are not drilled for the chuck mount, which is nice
12:48 PM roycroft: and they're 2-3/8" thick, which is *barely* thick enough, and only because i would not have to machine the register surface much, if at all
12:48 PM roycroft: and they are 2-1/4"-8 thread
12:48 PM roycroft: the problem is mounting the thing to enlarge the bore and chase the existing threads
12:49 PM roycroft: i'd have to find a way to mount it perfectly concentrically, which would be a challenge for me
12:49 PM roycroft: i like the idea of a chunk of metal, which i would only have to mount close to concentric
12:50 PM roycroft: steel may end up being my best option
12:53 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/9.jpg
12:54 PM Tom_L: you could always come get a chunk of that
12:54 PM Tom_L: bring your hacksaw :)
12:55 PM drdoc: and a tent?
12:56 PM roycroft: steel would cost me almost as much
12:57 PM roycroft: $100 for 3" of 8" 1045 steel
12:58 PM roycroft: we discussed fixturing this chunk of whatever yesterday, and since then i had the brilliant idea of removing my 3 jaw chuck from its back plate and just bolting the new back plate onto the 3 jaw back plate with some spacers for clearance
12:59 PM roycroft: i think that would be more rigid than anything else discussed
12:59 PM Tom_L: i recall that
12:59 PM roycroft: making t nuts for the 3 jaw would work well, but would be a lot more work
01:00 PM Tom_L: turning down 8" isn't a trivial thing either
01:00 PM roycroft: i should probably bite the bullet and get the cast iron
01:00 PM roycroft: yeah
01:00 PM drdoc: roycroft: the south bend back plate
01:00 PM roycroft: the steel yard told me they would give me a deal on a piece of 10" 1018
01:00 PM roycroft: but i do not want to turn that down to 8"
01:01 PM drdoc: could you drill it oversize to mount it as above for machining, then rotate it for the precision mount holes?
01:01 PM Tom_L: you might consider getting a slotting cutter and slot the end then cut the diameter with a cutoff of some type
01:01 PM roycroft: possibly
01:01 PM Tom_L: save removing all that material
01:01 PM Tom_L: just a big steel ring
01:02 PM roycroft: yeah, but at that point i'm into it for more time and money than just buying the cast iron billet
01:02 PM Tom_L: either material you choose...
01:03 PM roycroft: cast iron is the superior material for this
01:03 PM roycroft: so when the cost gets close to the same for both, i'll chose the cast iron
01:04 PM roycroft: besides, i rather enjoy machining cast iron
01:04 PM Tom_L: make sure to age it a few years first :)
01:04 PM roycroft: other than the messy dust, it's really nice to work with
01:04 PM Tom_L: it's dirty messy to machine
01:04 PM roycroft: yeah, i should toss it out in the back yard for a few years first
01:04 PM drdoc: I don't have a great visual reference for what you're after, but it seems to me that if there's any way to fixture it, modding something purpose-built is usually best
01:04 PM roycroft: drdoc: i have a 6" 3 jaw chuck for my lathe
01:05 PM Tom_L: drdoc, not that readily available
01:05 PM roycroft: i have an 8" 4 jaw that needs a back plate
01:05 PM roycroft: so i need to make a back plate for it
01:05 PM roycroft: it's a threaded spindle - m60x8tpi
01:05 PM drdoc: ah, thanks
01:05 PM roycroft: and yes, what i just said is correct
01:05 PM drdoc: right
01:06 PM roycroft: it's a metric size with a us customary thread pitch
01:06 PM drdoc: yes, we had a post-war lathe at Brandt like that
01:06 PM Tom_L: must have been built in the 70's when they were pushing metric on us :)
01:06 PM roycroft: they are very weird
01:06 PM drdoc: I think it was 80mm by 6tpi
01:06 PM roycroft: my lathe was built in the early '80s, in taiwan
01:07 PM drdoc: Tom_L: this one was retrofitted in China
01:07 PM drdoc: nobody had any idea when
01:07 PM roycroft: i need to mount the blank, whatever taht ends up being, with the register face out - backwards to how it will be installed
01:07 PM roycroft: so i can machine the bore, the thread, and the register in a single go
01:07 PM drdoc: right
01:08 PM roycroft: i have already made a copy of the spindle nose so i can check the thread and bore fit
01:08 PM Tom_L: you might want to shave a bit off the backside then too for clearance when you thread it to the spindle
01:08 PM drdoc: you said there are south bend backplates that would work?
01:08 PM roycroft: possibly
01:08 PM drdoc: with work...
01:08 PM drdoc: how far from "done" would that be?
01:08 PM roycroft: i need a tiny bit over 1" from the register shoulder to the tip of the nose
01:09 PM roycroft: there is an 8" south bend plate that is 2-3/8" thick, so there's enough room there
01:09 PM roycroft: and it's threaded 2-1/4-8tpi
01:09 PM roycroft: 2-1/4" is a bit over 57mm
01:09 PM drdoc: right
01:09 PM roycroft: so i'd need to open it up about 3mm
01:09 PM roycroft: and follow the existing threads
01:10 PM drdoc: you'd have to nearly match the thread
01:10 PM roycroft: yes
01:10 PM roycroft: i'm just not sure about mounting it perfectly concentrically
01:10 PM drdoc: that's what I was saying
01:10 PM roycroft: right, i got what you were saying
01:11 PM roycroft: i need to check the 3 jaw and see if the back plate is mounted with 3 screws or 4
01:11 PM roycroft: if it's 4, i could possibly do the oversize hole thing and center it like centering a part in a 4 jaw chuck
01:11 PM roycroft: if it's 3 that gets to be a lot harder to do
01:11 PM drdoc: right
01:12 PM roycroft: but the south bend back plate is going to cost the same as buying a chunk of cast iron
01:12 PM roycroft: so the decision is between more machining or more fiddling with the setup
01:12 PM drdoc: yup
01:12 PM drdoc: I'm trying to remember where my old shop bought cast stock
01:12 PM roycroft: i was trying to make the decision about cost, but every option seems to cost about the same
01:13 PM drdoc: I know McMaster-Carr was nosebleed expensive
01:13 PM roycroft: they're $85 for 3" of oversize 8" cast iron, but shipping is going to be like $50 on that
01:13 PM roycroft: and i'd really like to get 4"
01:14 PM drdoc: 3" max?
01:14 PM roycroft: with 4" i could drill and thread some shallow mounting holes for the turning, and then cut all of that off when i finish the part
01:14 PM roycroft: with 3" i'd have some extra holes, which won't hurt anything, but would be there
01:14 PM drdoc: makes sense
01:15 PM roycroft: but with 4" i'd have to face of an extra inch
01:15 PM roycroft: which would fill my entire shop with iron dust
01:15 PM drdoc: the price from McM doesn't seem terrible for what you're getting
01:15 PM roycroft: no, it's not
01:15 PM roycroft: except for the shipping
01:16 PM roycroft: but if a south bend faceplate is going to cost me clost to $130 anyway, it's a wash
01:16 PM drdoc: get them to send it flat-rate Priority
01:16 PM drdoc: :0
01:16 PM roycroft: the bottom line is that i just want to pay $75 for the back plate
01:16 PM roycroft: not $130
01:17 PM roycroft: but some wise man named mick told me once that i can't always get what i want
01:17 PM roycroft: i should listen to him
01:17 PM drdoc: shame you don't live in oil-field country
01:17 PM drdoc: you should listen to mick regardless
01:20 PM roycroft: btw, i don't know why i hadn't thought of this myself, but one of the things i don't like about my lathe is the threaded spindle
01:20 PM roycroft: it cannot be run backwards safely because of that
01:21 PM drdoc: right
01:21 PM roycroft: i've thought about ways to lock the chuck in place so i can do that when it is desirable to do so, but never came up with a good way
01:21 PM roycroft: but then i read a post where the guy made a drawbar for his chuck
01:21 PM roycroft: that's a pretty simple solution, and i think it would be safe
01:22 PM roycroft: a piece of threaded rod, some nuts, and some big washers are all that would be needed
01:23 PM roycroft: for many operations it should work fine
01:24 PM drdoc: makes sense, but that's way past my expertise
01:25 PM drdoc: I really miss my little watchmaker's lathe
01:26 PM roycroft: now to decide between grey iron and ductile iron
01:26 PM roycroft: i don't think ductile iron is really necessary for this application
01:26 PM roycroft: if i drop the chuck i'll have more to worry about than the back plate cracking
01:26 PM drdoc: which makes the most dust?
01:26 PM roycroft: i don't know
01:27 PM roycroft: if i get this i may have to construct a giant dental dam around my lathe to contain the dust
01:27 PM drdoc: lol
01:28 PM drdoc: I used to hate working on cast iron
01:28 PM roycroft: the dust and mess are the problem
01:28 PM roycroft: it machines beautifully though
01:28 PM drdoc: yes
01:28 PM roycroft: and does not require lubricant
01:28 PM drdoc: maybe mount the shop vac on your tool post?
01:29 PM drdoc: well, the hose...
01:29 PM roycroft: i do have a shop vac for my lathe
01:29 PM roycroft: it never gets used for anything but metal chips
01:30 PM roycroft: i usually use it for tidying up, but i could make a mount for the hose to help keep the dust down
01:30 PM drdoc: it wouldn't get it all, but it ought to help
01:31 PM drdoc: by the way
01:31 PM drdoc: this Baldor 1.5HP came with no plug on the cord and I have no idea whether it was wired for 120 or 240
01:32 PM roycroft: the cover plate should have a wiring diagram on the inside
01:32 PM roycroft: if that's missing, contact baldor
01:32 PM drdoc: there's a diagram, but the wire out of the motor is all white
01:32 PM roycroft: the numbers are gone?
01:33 PM roycroft: that sucks
01:33 PM roycroft: but is not that unusual
01:33 PM drdoc: right
01:33 PM roycroft: plug it into 120v and see if it goes
01:33 PM drdoc: most not-idjits tag the wires though
01:33 PM roycroft: i would test the low voltage first
01:34 PM drdoc: that was going to be the question
01:34 PM drdoc: plugging it into 120 shouldn't do any damage, right?
01:34 PM roycroft: i don't think so
01:34 PM roycroft: but it's not my blue smoke
01:34 PM drdoc: lol
01:34 PM roycroft: plugging it into 240 when it's wired for 120 would almost certainly cause damage
01:34 PM drdoc: time to do some google
01:34 PM drdoc: well yes
01:35 PM drdoc: there ought to be a way to buzz it out with a DMM
01:36 PM drdoc: but that might be one of your mick things
01:48 PM jymmmm: ve7it: hi
01:49 PM roycroft: i just had another idea, which i think is the best yet
01:49 PM roycroft: i have some 3/8" x 8" flat bar
01:49 PM roycroft: i could cut off a chunk of that, make an adapter plate so i can mount my 4 jaw chuck on the 3 jaw back plate
01:50 PM roycroft: and then i would be able to hold a south bend back plate or whatever in the 4 jaw
01:50 PM roycroft: hi jymmmm
01:50 PM jymmmm: roycroft: hello
01:51 PM ve7it: jymmmm, what are ya up to these days?
01:51 PM jymmmm: ve7it: More than I wish to be, lol. Yourself?
01:53 PM ve7it: pretty quiet around here.... another week to get 1st shot... then wait 4 months for the second
01:53 PM jymmmm: oh joy... not
01:53 PM ve7it: relearning morse code with an 8080 cpm tutor program
01:54 PM jymmmm: haha, niiice. how's that coming along?
01:55 PM ve7it: just hacking the program to send random 5 letter code groups... I want to leave it running so my brain gets trained to hear the sounds
01:56 PM ve7it: or maybe a should get an old penhtouse and get it to send me some stories.. might keep the interest UP!
01:56 PM * roycroft has had both shots, and is days away from being as safe as he'll be
01:56 PM roycroft: ve7it must live in canadia
01:58 PM ve7it: yup... the land of promises from a prime minister that likes to give money away
01:58 PM ve7it: (but not for anything useful)
01:59 PM roycroft: i was hearing on the cbc this morning that a new canadian "thing" is to come down to the us for vaccinations
01:59 PM roycroft: truckers are making appointments for themselves and their friends as they make deliveries in the us
02:00 PM ve7it: yes... if North Dakota wasnt a 2 day drive away, I would be there!
02:00 PM roycroft: it's happening a lot in manitoba - there's a serious vaccine shortage in edmonton, so throngs of people are heading down to north dakota
02:00 PM roycroft: and it's happenning in southern ontario - especially near buffalo
02:00 PM ve7it: we are under a no travel rule until May 24 right now
02:01 PM roycroft: washington state still doesn't have enough doses for their own people, so folks in bc are not able to head down at the moment
02:01 PM roycroft: yeah, it's getting pretty bad up there
02:02 PM ve7it: our local vacinne clinic is only open 3 days a week.. the numbers are not encouraging
02:04 PM ve7it: all the supply comes from out of country.... India is not sending any more... Europe is iffy with delays on most shipments... got to get some on shore expertise in the game
02:05 PM ve7it: The US sent us 1.5Million doses... I think those got used in about 3 days!
02:06 PM ve7it: The reserves and the old folks homes have been vacinated... I am 66 and just coming up for a shot.
02:07 PM ve7it: Poor medical staff/cops/most workers are still waiting
02:07 PM drdoc: roycroft: I like the adapter plate idea
02:07 PM roycroft: and btw, i would not blame your prime minister for the vaccine problems in canada
02:07 PM drdoc: is 3/8" gonna be rigid enough?
02:07 PM roycroft: he did a good job of securing contracts for getting vaccines
02:08 PM roycroft: but the european companies pulled out
02:08 PM roycroft: i think so, drdoc
02:08 PM roycroft: i may have some 1/2" - i'm going to check
02:08 PM drdoc: the EU countries got a better offer when the US opened up to youngsters
02:08 PM roycroft: the real problem in canada is that you don't have any domestic vaccine production facilities
02:09 PM roycroft: and mr. trudeau has invested millions in building some
02:09 PM roycroft: but it's going to be years before they're ready
02:09 PM ve7it: I blame him for blabbing that Canada had 80 million doses coming real soon (last Christmas).. and they have been trickling in
02:09 PM roycroft: neither liberal nor conservative governments in the past have expressed any serious concern about that
02:09 PM drdoc: roycroft: I'd want some carbon at 3/8"
02:09 PM roycroft: which to me is a national security issue
02:09 PM roycroft: yes, and he secured contracts for that many doses
02:10 PM roycroft: but then the eu said "oh, we decided to keep the vaccines for ourselves"
02:10 PM roycroft: don't get me wrong
02:10 PM roycroft: he's not the greatest prime minster ever
02:10 PM drdoc: lol
02:10 PM roycroft: he's barley his father's son
02:10 PM roycroft: barely
02:10 PM roycroft: and his father was not the greates prime minister ever
02:11 PM drdoc: I'll say this - the Plague has been useful for learning who your real friends are
02:11 PM drdoc: grom face-to-face up to global scales
02:11 PM drdoc: *from
02:11 PM ve7it: yes.... the US has similar problems with production in general.... too much stuff moved off shore in the last few decades. Global economy is great, but we forgot how to wipe our own arses!
02:12 PM roycroft: i'm not a protectionist, per se
02:12 PM drdoc: US has its usual problem of believing we've bought friends
02:12 PM Bleep-CNC: What would cause me to lose steps on a diagonal move while not cutting? Do I need to take hte feed rate for the rapids down some ?
02:12 PM roycroft: but i am a strong proponent of a good, robust national security policy, which means being able to product critical infrastructure items domestically
02:12 PM drdoc: Bleep-CNC: probably
02:13 PM drdoc: roycroft: or at least not de-funding our emergency health services?
02:13 PM roycroft: bleep-cnc: you may be overtaxing your power supply when you make diagonal moves
02:14 PM drdoc: or the controller
02:14 PM roycroft: monitor your current draw
02:15 PM ve7it: my motto is "If you cant fix it... you dont own it" meaning everyone needs a robust understanding of what we need to keep us happy in life.. a healthy skill set and ability to think critically is a reall asset
02:15 PM roycroft: drdoc: i need to make an 6" round table for my belt grinder at some point
02:16 PM roycroft: so if i use some of that 8" for the adapter plate i can weld up the inner bolt circle holes when i'm done and repurpose it for the belt grinder table
02:17 PM drdoc: heh
02:18 PM drdoc: crap...
02:18 PM drdoc: I need to be 25 miles from here in an hour
02:18 PM roycroft: ciaoder
02:18 PM drdoc: hasty loogie
02:22 PM roycroft: well it's lunch time, so i can go rummage through my chunks of steel and see if i really do have that adapter plate material
02:22 PM roycroft: i wouldn't even mind buying a piece of scrap at the metal purveyor's, if they have something that would work
02:27 PM Bleep-CNC: roycroft: I've got split supplies because I've got dual Y drives. Z / Y1 on one and X / Y2 on the other.
02:29 PM Bleep-CNC: roycroft: But i'm running each 10A supply into 2 4A drivers so I figured I was within margins.
02:31 PM Bleep-CNC: There's the man! ;D
02:31 PM Bleep-CNC: CaptHindsight: And how are you today?
02:33 PM * Bleep-CNC is trying a different machine today and the latency numbers look much better even with random shit being thrown at the machine.
02:34 PM Bleep-CNC: And i'm going to have to continue this after I get back from a run to town for food and parts.
02:40 PM roycroft: well even better - i just found out three things:
02:40 PM roycroft: 1. the bolt hole circle on the 4 jaw is smaller than on the 3 jaw
02:40 PM Bleep-CNC is now known as Bleeptech
02:40 PM roycroft: 2. i found a piece of 1/2" plate that's just big enough to cut a 6" circle out of for an adapter plate
02:41 PM roycroft: 3. there's just enough clearance in the back of the 4 jaw that a 2" thick back plate would work
02:41 PM * roycroft thinks he has a good plan now
02:50 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:52 PM roycroft: and 4. i just found a south bend "extra thick" blank backing plate that is partially machined for $77.95 including shipping, which is almost exactly what i want to pay
02:52 PM roycroft: if it's thick enough i'll order it now
03:01 PM Tom_L: oh..
03:01 PM Tom_L: that was the news for today...
03:01 PM roycroft: except it's not thick enough
03:01 PM Tom_L: they stopped scheduling shots
03:01 PM Tom_L: here
03:01 PM roycroft: why?
03:01 PM Tom_L: now you just go get one
03:01 PM roycroft: we're at a point in oregon where supply is about to outpace demand
03:02 PM roycroft: because most of the smart people have been vaccinated
03:02 PM Tom_L: i'd guess some of the dumb ones have too
03:03 PM roycroft: some of them
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: lets see how we can spin this, 40% of the population in the USA doesn't get vaccinated so herd immunity is not possible...
03:03 PM Tom_L: there goes the neighborhood...
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: "------------" insert theory here
03:04 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, would you start with KP or KI?
03:04 PM roycroft: i've started to think that the real reason the maga people won't get vaccinated is because they like to complain about the pandemic, and if it ends they'll have to find something new to complain about
03:04 PM roycroft: and they hate change
03:05 PM bjorkintosh: they only hate non-maga change.
03:05 PM roycroft: they've found it comfortable to complain about the pandemic
03:05 PM roycroft: see, in their minds, maga changes are not really changes
03:05 PM bjorkintosh: it's a maga-demic. happened right smack dab in the middle of their magadness.
03:05 PM roycroft: they're restorals to the better times that never were
03:06 PM Tom_L: it's CaptHindsight or there's a parameter that i think is acceleration
03:06 PM roycroft: i just don't get why they bitch so much about the vaccine
03:06 PM roycroft: they are the ones who have been complaining the most about the pandemic
03:06 PM roycroft: one would think they would do whatever they could to help end it
03:07 PM Tom_L: sry roycroft, you can go back to talking about your backplate now :)
03:07 PM roycroft: i'm done with the other subject
03:07 PM roycroft: i have accepted that i shall never understand how some people think
03:08 PM Tom_L: i nearly forgot that was announced yesterday
03:08 PM roycroft: and i'm comfortable with that deficiency on my part
03:08 PM roycroft: i'll continue trying to understand, but i won't become distressed if i continue to fail
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compartmentalization_(psychology)
03:09 PM roycroft: i actually took several psychology classes during my undergrad studies
03:10 PM roycroft: i still don't understand a lot of human behavior though
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
03:11 PM roycroft: don't forget to add projection there
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, along with simple ignorance
03:12 PM roycroft: and maybe too much bible reading
03:12 PM roycroft: which requires all of the above
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: I prefer my opiates to be actual opiates
03:28 PM JT-Shop: wow my Foxfire book has a whole chapter on making soap
03:28 PM roycroft: foxfire has a lot of good stuff
03:28 PM roycroft: i used to read those books and the magazine all the time back in the '70s
03:28 PM roycroft: i still have many of the books and a few issues of their magazine
03:29 PM roycroft: along with the whole earth catalogs and the coevolution quarterly were pretty standard hippie/counterculture reading material
03:34 PM JT-Shop: my mom sent me the book years ago, no cover and some pages have pen marks
03:45 PM roycroft: they're really great books
03:45 PM roycroft: they document a way of life that is all but lost
03:48 PM roycroft: one of the things that i really like about them is that most of the interviewers were young students, and most of the interviewees were elders, and the students showed a whole lot of respect towards the elders
03:48 PM roycroft: another part of life that sadly is all but lost now
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: ever been on a website with automation components at it only has a "request pricing" button? And then you press it and it pops up a form to fill out for their sales to contact you? And after they contact you they still don't give you pricing but ask many questions about your application.
04:19 PM roycroft: no, because i leave the website as soon as i get to the "request pricing" page
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: Do you walk away, drag out the process with vague answers, post links to competitors site with pricing and data sheets?
04:20 PM roycroft: if i can't get real-time pricing on the website i either shop elsewhere or ring the vendor up on the phone
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: "oh what is the appliction?"
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: "how dod you plan to use the part?"
04:21 PM roycroft: "it's the one where you answer my questions, and if the answers are satisfactory i give you money"
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: can you hold on while I get an expert on the line?
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: "what is it that you want to do?"
04:21 PM roycroft: "sure - but if you can't find an expert you can also ask the audience or phone a friend"
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: " I think i understand what is is you are looking for"
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: do you have time for shaort phone conference with one of our experts
04:23 PM buzzmarshall: i always tell them I am nsa contractor so stop asking stupid questions
04:23 PM buzzmarshall: that usually makes them shutup or drop the phone call
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: if they don't get constructive feedback then they will not learn
04:24 PM buzzmarshall: everyones so keen on selling ya crap nowadays companies that ive dealt with for years that never had that behaviour are now doing it
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: this time I just sent them links to a competitor with pricing and data sheets so they know what I am looking for
04:24 PM buzzmarshall: everyones after metadata in one form or another
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: see, this is what i want, understand now?
04:25 PM buzzmarshall: ya thats a good fair way to go about it
04:25 PM buzzmarshall: i prototype so much crap these days its getting really hard to not run into that stuff
04:26 PM roycroft: the customer has become the product
04:26 PM buzzmarshall: so i try and use as much off the shelf stuff i can get thru the main distributors which can kinda keep you out of some of the leading edge stuff but i have no time in educating them in their own stuff
04:27 PM buzzmarshall: the only way i put up with that stuff is when i ask for samples
04:27 PM buzzmarshall: then i figure its only fair for them to ask what i am doing
04:27 PM buzzmarshall: i agree the customer is now the comodity
04:27 PM roycroft: sure
04:28 PM roycroft: if you want something for free you need to be willing to give something up
04:28 PM CaptHindsight: this was for $1k components
04:28 PM CaptHindsight: laser displacement sensors, I even see used ones on ebay from Keyence for $5k
04:29 PM roycroft: if you have part numbers and it's for that amount, the only question they should ask is "will this be cash, credit card, or do you have an account with us?"
04:29 PM buzzmarshall: ya thats right
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: what is worse is the first question they ask is "who is your salesperson?"
04:30 PM buzzmarshall: how much and when can i get it are bout the most i will put with
04:30 PM roycroft: "not you, obviously"
04:30 PM CaptHindsight: It is my first time calling, I don't know"
04:30 PM roycroft: but it's still not you
04:30 PM CaptHindsight: and they are stumped
04:30 PM CaptHindsight: like they already have all the customers that they want
04:31 PM roycroft: a lot of the time they assign sales people by territory, so i get tha part out of the way up front
04:31 PM roycroft: "hi, i'm roy from eugene oregon. i'm a new customer and i need to speak to a sales person"
04:31 PM CaptHindsight: that is understandable
04:31 PM buzzmarshall: i used to lie and make them think i was some central purchasing agent for a manufacturing facility and that works sometimes but its to hard trying to remember what you tell someone later down the road
04:31 PM roycroft: if they then ask me who my sales person is, the answer is "certainly not you"
04:32 PM buzzmarshall: the one that always kills me is
04:32 PM roycroft: i don't lie
04:32 PM roycroft: it's way too much work
04:32 PM buzzmarshall: how many are you going to use in the next year
04:32 PM buzzmarshall: hell i don't know im building a prototype
04:32 PM roycroft: "that depends - how reliable are they?"
04:32 PM buzzmarshall: ya
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: yes, the fill out the customer profile first
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: the standard answer for electronic parts is K's to 10k's
04:33 PM buzzmarshall: i did purchasing amongst a bunch of other duties for about 10 years and it wasn't that bad but now its nuts
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: say too many or too few and you're not take seriously
04:33 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, indeed: "Initial run will be 10K, can you help me with samples"
04:34 PM buzzmarshall: as much as i hate going offshore sometimes that seems like the only way to avoid some of that noseyness
04:34 PM buzzmarshall: i find most asian vendors don't ask to much unless you lead them down that road
04:35 PM CaptHindsight: the other day I asked an Asian vendor for which model they made did something the best...
04:35 PM CaptHindsight: the answer was "which model"
04:36 PM CaptHindsight: ?
04:36 PM roycroft: the obvious answer is "the one you have"
04:36 PM buzzmarshall: while you guys are here... ive got a bunch of tests i want to do and want to start with just a linux box and no microcontroller on the machine to control some nema 34 closed-loop motors
04:36 PM buzzmarshall: they all have drivers
04:37 PM buzzmarshall: whats a cheap pc card i could use to fee that out to the drivers while running linuxcnc
04:37 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: what is the input to the drivers? analog, Step and Dir or ??
04:37 PM buzzmarshall: i don't want to get into andy of the higher cards
04:37 PM buzzmarshall: step and direction... the typical
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: do you have an LPT port?
04:38 PM buzzmarshall: normally i'd just build a parallel port output card but i am sure theres something cheap without much building
04:38 PM buzzmarshall: ya i can make that happen
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: LPT and break out board (BOB)
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: IF you have low enough latency to step at the speed that you want
04:39 PM buzzmarshall: i see lots of mach3 tupes of cards but am not interested in mach3 so i wasnt sure if they would do me anygood
04:39 PM buzzmarshall: actually thats part of what i want to test
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: just software step using LPT card --> BOB --> motor driver
04:39 PM buzzmarshall: i can make it work on arm based sbc boards
04:40 PM buzzmarshall: now i would like to test my kernel and driver on a full pc
04:40 PM Rab: Unfortunately there's a lot of cheap hardware with "Mach3" on it. You would need something with a parport interface, not USB.
04:41 PM buzzmarshall: so what i was going to do to kill 2 birds with one stone here is ive yanked the nema 23 motors from my guitar mill and replaced them with bigger nema 34s and closed-loop drivers
04:42 PM buzzmarshall: ya i figured usb was bad... thanx for confirming that
04:42 PM CaptHindsight: there is no real time interface from LCNC over USB
04:43 PM buzzmarshall: any particular BOB thats i should look at?
04:43 PM CaptHindsight: you could send data over USB but the timing will all off
04:43 PM Rab: I have one of these as a secondary breakout, and it works OK. The USB is only for power. https://www.ebay.com/itm/152833919438
04:44 PM CaptHindsight: ^^ I have those as well, the only issue often is no 0-10V out that is actually 0-10V out
04:44 PM CaptHindsight: it's more like 1-10V out
04:44 PM CaptHindsight: but that is only used to control spindle RPM
04:45 PM buzzmarshall: hm... looks simple enough maybe i will go with something like that
04:45 PM buzzmarshall: with all the mach3 labeling i wasnt sure if there was something specific done on them that would interfere with what i want which is just simple outputs
04:46 PM Rab: No, the functionality is completely generic AFAIK.
04:46 PM buzzmarshall: cool
04:47 PM Rab: But they know their market.
04:47 PM buzzmarshall: i figured before i keep messing with sbcs and linuxcnc i wanted to look at the mainstream pc setup 1st
04:48 PM buzzmarshall: closed-loop isn't something i messed much with so its a learning thing for me as well
04:48 PM Rab: I started with SBCs, gave up and grabbed a $40 PC.
04:49 PM buzzmarshall: and the machines basically just x,y, and z and for now i am just using a good router for cutting
04:50 PM Tom_L: tested the new rougher endmills i recently got: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eWSLIC7Fpc
04:50 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7kxhRhnq_Y
04:50 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2aZHDhIaNc
04:51 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: LCNC does all the motion synchronization in the PC, not on another processor over USB
04:52 PM buzzmarshall: ya thats what i was expecting and why i wanted to look at doing it with pc
04:52 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: exceptions are mesa and Pico cards that perform the sync in an FPGA over PCIe, Ethernet or other real time bus
04:53 PM buzzmarshall: k... that confirms what i kinda thought,,, just not really interested in spending that type of money in interfacing right now
04:54 PM CaptHindsight: mach3 uses USB and doesn't concern itself with things like rigid tapping that require precise and fast sync between axis and tools in a spindle
04:54 PM buzzmarshall: i just need a simple way of using the pc running linuxcnc to drive the discrete motor drivers for now
04:55 PM buzzmarshall: so a bob would probably do what i want
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: if you want LCNC to read the encoders than you'll need some input device to capture those signals
04:55 PM buzzmarshall: that was my next question
04:55 PM buzzmarshall: lol
04:56 PM CaptHindsight: using a mesa card is the simplest method right now
04:57 PM buzzmarshall: can the 3 drivers multiplex the data back on one port into the pc or do they need to be kept separate
04:57 PM CaptHindsight: multiplex the encoder signals?
04:58 PM Rab: buzzmarshall, your stepper drivers are already internally closed-loop, correct?
04:59 PM buzzmarshall: to be honest ive not taken alot of looking into them as they came with the motors
04:59 PM buzzmarshall: but i was assuming they basically talked to the motor end encoders and the driver outputs were more or less status
04:59 PM CaptHindsight: the point is that the closed loop stepper drive closes the loop inside the drive
05:00 PM CaptHindsight: I only asked IF you wanted to read the encoders in LCNC
05:00 PM CaptHindsight: you don't have to
05:00 PM CaptHindsight: it all depends on what you are wanting to do
05:01 PM buzzmarshall: if i can yes... i quess thats kinda my point of playing as i wasn
05:01 PM Rab: buzzmarshall, do you have a part number for the drivers?
05:01 PM buzzmarshall: sure of what all could be done with them
05:02 PM buzzmarshall: there all 2HSS86,s that have cabling to the motors but theres a rs232 output on each driver which i assumed i would bring back to the pc
05:02 PM buzzmarshall: just wasn't sure what to expect on those rails and what the pc would or could do with them
05:04 PM buzzmarshall: i get the idea of step correction between the motor and driver driven by the cable between the 2 and the driver internally doing its correction
05:05 PM buzzmarshall: just didn't know if there was a way of linuxcnc being able to see things in a useable manner
05:06 PM CaptHindsight: https://1ugn2l2m3z2y31d4y73c1m5w-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Stepper-Motor-Servo-Control-Diagram-768x186.jpg
05:07 PM CaptHindsight: everything to the left of Pcmd is in LCNC, to the right is your stepper drive and motor
05:07 PM buzzmarshall: https://www.amazon.ca/RATTMMOTOR-86HSE154-AC24-70V-DC30-100V-Engraving/dp/B083J4D6ZL/ref=sr_1_4_sspa?crid=15HEFX79S2YPR&dchild=1&keywords=nema34+closed+loop+stepper+motor+kit&qid=1619474043&sprefix=closed-loop+motor%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-4-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyUDZaWkFNTE9JQUVXJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjE0NzM3MUxTUVFLTkJaSUc5OCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzEzODExMlpYTExHMTNDSkZaNiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0Z
05:07 PM buzzmarshall: iZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
05:07 PM buzzmarshall: jesus... what a link... anyways those are the motors i am playing with
05:08 PM CaptHindsight: you don't have to send the encoder signals to LCNC with that drive and motor
05:08 PM CaptHindsight: the loop gets closed inside that drive
05:08 PM buzzmarshall: k... thats kinda what i thought but wasnt sure
05:09 PM buzzmarshall: but is there a way if i wanted to pull a feed from those loops that linuxcnc could use
05:09 PM Rab: Looks like the serial port is just for tuning the drive parameters.
05:09 PM buzzmarshall: or are we into something totally differen
05:09 PM buzzmarshall: ya i was thinking the same thing about the serial port as a tuning thing
05:10 PM CaptHindsight: that is common and to make more money they will use some odd type of connector that requires a dongle or adapter
05:10 PM Rab: Using something called a "HISU adjuster", which I guess is this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07W5TXVJ3
05:11 PM buzzmarshall: for eg... say i were to make a breakout board and insert it between the motor and drive cabling to pick up the signals
05:11 PM _unreal_: Rab, whats up
05:11 PM Rab: _unreal_, greetz
05:11 PM _unreal_: Rab, I forget do you do stm32 stuff?
05:11 PM Rab: _unreal_, affirmative, from time to time.
05:12 PM _unreal_: Rab, https://www.cnczone.com/forums/controller-cards/419158-cnc-posts.html
05:12 PM _unreal_: just finished hardware hacking one
05:12 PM _unreal_: the other I have not gotten around to the olimex
05:12 PM _unreal_: I'm looking to get GRBL onto both of them. mainly the olimex because its an arduino formfactor drop in
05:13 PM _unreal_: I'm not much of a coder not do I have anything setup relaly for trying to convert the stm32grbl builds over to those boards.
05:14 PM _unreal_: I assume most of it would be just adjusting pin assigments
05:14 PM _unreal_: Rab, I just got my LASER etcher back from the coverings company.
05:15 PM _unreal_: need to finish it but at this point it looks amazing
05:16 PM Rab: _unreal_, there can be other chip-specific issues, like clock setup.
05:16 PM _unreal_: NOT likely it uses the same chip as a number of stm32 GRBL setups
05:16 PM _unreal_: just different wiring.
05:16 PM _unreal_: different board
05:17 PM Rab: Do you have the source and toolchain to build GRBL for STM32?
05:18 PM Rab: And am I correct in thinking that this is off the topic of LinuxCNC?
05:19 PM _unreal_: many sources
05:19 PM _unreal_: agressivly
05:19 PM _unreal_: Rab, https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPqX5FMaiwizwkp5A0lmHpWMVkC32P_WxZ3-6tw3fKjWP90ujEXEVws37aZ8SsFQA?key=LTBIU3F3bHdJUndDUEJPalJzcTFxdGlGSlBUOW53
05:21 PM Rab: BOURBON
05:23 PM _unreal_: like that ehh :)
05:23 PM _unreal_: you'll love the cover I just got for the laser etcher
05:23 PM _unreal_: when I get it installed
05:23 PM _unreal_: the thing is going to look VERY sharp
05:24 PM _unreal_: itsall fire proof kevlar inside and flame redardent poly out side
05:24 PM _unreal_: to make it more "air" tight so I can control the air flow
05:25 PM _unreal_: Rab, msg'd ya a bunch of links exampling
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: which signals? the encoders?
05:27 PM CaptHindsight: anyway BBL
05:30 PM buzzmarshall: sorry was reading something but yes the encoders
05:30 PM buzzmarshall: k... see ya later
05:51 PM JT-Cave: buzzmarshall, you don't need anything after the ? in your link
05:56 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, i ran a couple tests on those roughers, links above
05:57 PM JT-Cave: ok I'll watch them in the morning
05:57 PM Tom_L: they're short
05:57 PM Tom_L: but yeah
05:58 PM Tom_L: they sure make nice cutters
05:58 PM Tom_L: i didn't push it past 45 ipm on this mill
06:00 PM JT-Cave: watched them an yeah they make some chips
06:00 PM _unreal_: I think we lost rab
06:00 PM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/mesa/index.html
06:01 PM Tom_L: i like that pic
06:02 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, are those overhead drive belts?
06:02 PM JT-Cave: hover over it to get a link to the museum
06:02 PM Tom_L: in the pic
06:02 PM Tom_L: i did already
06:03 PM Tom_L: didn't navigate yet, gotta run an errand
06:03 PM JT-Cave: yeah line shaft from a water driven wheel
06:03 PM JT-Cave: k
06:03 PM Tom_L: nice
06:03 PM Tom_L: first glance i expected to see a spoke shop :)
06:16 PM buzzmarshall: cool... i'll try to remember that... i don't many links but i couldn't believe how ugly that was
06:16 PM buzzmarshall: thanx
06:47 PM roycroft: well it's definitely time to mount that 4 jaw
06:48 PM roycroft: i emailed mcmaster asking them for a shipping quote on their cast iron disc, telling them i'm on a budget
06:48 PM roycroft: they knocked $10 off the price, and quoted me $25 for shipping, so i got that for <$100
06:49 PM roycroft: then i found my '6" 3 jaw chuck' is really 165mm in diameter, and i need all of that for the adapter plate, so i went off to the steel yard to see what i could get to make the plate
06:49 PM roycroft: the guy handed me an 8" diameter 1/2" thick disc and said 'have a nice day'
06:50 PM roycroft: it was a little rusty, but a few seconds in the blasting cabinet took care of that
06:50 PM * Tom_L pictures roycroft all giddy like a little kid
06:50 PM roycroft: i'm not giddy, particularly
06:50 PM roycroft: but i'm happy that things worked out nicely
06:50 PM roycroft: i've wanted to use this chuck for a long time, and now i know why it took so long to deal with it
06:51 PM roycroft: the job was waiting for today
06:52 PM Tom_L: when i was building the mill i had some rusty plate i was starting to use cause that's all they had. i went the next day to get something else and somebody had just dumped off a whole bunch of brand new 5/16" plate so i grabbed a nice hunk of it instead of using the rust
06:54 PM Tom_L: i wish i'd have gotten more but that's all that would fit in the vehicle
09:14 PM roycroft: so things got even better
09:14 PM roycroft: the random metal disk that the guy handed me turned out to be cast iron
09:14 PM roycroft: i've never turned anything that size before, especially not cast iron, but the back plate will be that big and cast iron
09:15 PM roycroft: so i got some experience working a piece of that size today, which will make the real job go better
09:22 PM CaptHindsight: can't decide red vs blue for a Mig
09:36 PM Tom_L: i liked blue
09:36 PM Tom_L: how big?
09:37 PM Tom_L: check the feed roller mechanism
09:37 PM Tom_L: blue looked stronger to me
09:39 PM Tom_L: they're both decent though
09:42 PM roycroft: i've been happy with green for my tig welder and plasma cutter
09:43 PM Tom_L: what brand is green?
09:45 PM roycroft: everlast
09:46 PM Tom_L: yeah i just found it
09:47 PM Tom_L: https://blog.iseekplant.com.au/blog/best-welding-brands
09:47 PM Tom_L: never heard of ESAB
09:48 PM roycroft: esab are yellow
09:48 PM roycroft: they're pretty mainstream
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09:48 PM Tom_L: all i ever see around here are blue and red
09:48 PM Tom_L: and mostly blue on service trucks
09:48 PM roycroft: sure, that makes sense
09:48 PM roycroft: people think that blue and red are american
09:49 PM roycroft: and they've been around for a long time
09:49 PM Tom_L: heh, i didn't even associate that :)
09:49 PM roycroft: they are all made overseas now, though
09:49 PM roycroft: all the inverter ones
09:49 PM Tom_L: just about everything is now
09:49 PM CaptHindsight: mostly Blue for mobile here as well
09:49 PM roycroft: if you want a transformer welder that wastes energy and weighs literally a ton, you can still get american blue or red
09:50 PM CaptHindsight: in shops I see both about equally
09:50 PM Tom_L: true
09:52 PM roycroft: a lot of that is due to tradition
09:52 PM roycroft: "nobody ever got fired for buying ibm" syndrome
09:53 PM CaptHindsight: just about any Chinese MIG is a fraction of the price
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09:53 PM roycroft: yes
09:53 PM Tom_L: and worth about a fraction as much
09:53 PM roycroft: and a fraction of the price of the blue and red mig machines that are inverters, and also made in china
10:01 PM CaptHindsight: Home depot sells Everlast
10:02 PM Tom_L: how big a welder are you looking for?
10:03 PM veegee: Ok what frequencies are annoying to dogs?
10:03 PM CaptHindsight: min 100^ duty at 250-300A range
10:03 PM CaptHindsight: 100%
10:03 PM veegee: The neighbours got a few dogs for the sole purpose of "guarding" their dump of a property
10:03 PM veegee: the dogs are incredibly loud and aggressive, but behind a chain link fense
10:03 PM veegee: fence
10:04 PM veegee: It's not even that it's startling, the barking is deafening
10:04 PM roycroft: i've had my tig welder and plasma cutter for a decade now, and while they have dozens, not hundreds or thousands of hours on them, i've not had any problems with either
10:04 PM veegee: And the entrance to my unit is right next to them. Every time I walk by, they bark
10:05 PM veegee: roycroft and why should they? They're solid state electronics
10:05 PM Tom_L: veegee, start feeding them
10:05 PM Tom_L: make friends
10:05 PM roycroft: airgas used to handle repairs for them, so if that's still the case it's a short drive from almost anywhere in the usa to drop them off for repairs
10:05 PM veegee: Tom_L I don't know if that's possible at this age
10:06 PM veegee: I can try that
10:06 PM Tom_L: i never met a dog that didn't like food
10:06 PM roycroft: they are, and unlike most inverter welders, everlast use high quality german igbts
10:06 PM ronox: what particular properties does a spindle motor have thats different from any other motor?
10:06 PM veegee: Mine are everlast too :D
10:06 PM Tom_L: ronox, depends on the spindle motor
10:06 PM ronox: im considering buying a chinese spindlemotor and then making a CNC router
10:06 PM veegee: ronox nothing, unless its water cooled
10:06 PM CaptHindsight: ronox: depends on the spindle, might be RPM range
10:06 PM veegee: ronox that'll work just fine
10:07 PM Tom_L: most are variable frequency drive
10:07 PM veegee: they may have more poles
10:07 PM ronox: no i mean like, what makes spindle motors different, period
10:07 PM roycroft: all i'm saying is that if you buy yellow, blue, red, or green, if it's an inverter it's made in china
10:07 PM veegee: ronox nothing
10:07 PM veegee: high speed bearings most likely
10:07 PM ronox: so they are just large motors within the speed range then?
10:07 PM roycroft: blue and red pretend they're still us-made, and one pays the price for that pretense
10:07 PM Tom_L: ronox, what is your target rpm?
10:08 PM veegee: ronox just different design RPM, that's all
10:08 PM roycroft: almost everyone who makes a cnc router uses an 80mm chinese spindle these days
10:08 PM Tom_L: yeah that makes it hard to find a good spindle motor
10:08 PM veegee: they're likely 2 pole
10:08 PM ronox: whatever you need to mill aluminium (slowly and manually)
10:08 PM ronox: mostly ill be routing wood and plastic but the ability to do stuff with alu would be nice
10:09 PM ronox: like, do stuff, period, not neccesarily well
10:09 PM veegee: ronox I have a chinese 6040 CNC router, it does all that perfectly fine
10:09 PM ronox: i do plan to get a steel capable mill in the future but i realized its easy to make a router for cutting frames and such from plywood or MDF
10:09 PM veegee: standard sum-ting-wong brand, but I had nutting-wong with mine
10:09 PM roycroft: the 80mm spindle motors will machine aluminium just fine, as long as you use a small diameter cutter
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10:09 PM Tom_L: ronox, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2aZHDhIaNc
10:09 PM Tom_L: mine
10:10 PM CaptHindsight: always bringing race into it, what do the poles have to do with chinese motors?
10:10 PM ronox: oki thats good to know
10:10 PM veegee: CaptHindsight LOL nothing
10:10 PM veegee: CaptHindsight I'm just saying the high speed spindle motors are usually 2 pole
10:10 PM ronox: Tom_L, so was that done with an 80mm spindle?
10:10 PM veegee: ronox you have nothing to worry about
10:10 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Spindle/Motor_mounted1.jpg
10:11 PM Tom_L: ronox, no
10:11 PM ronox: what ws the video for then?
10:11 PM Tom_L: max rpm is ~5500 - 6k
10:11 PM ronox: ?
10:11 PM Tom_L: i didn't want a high speed spindle because i wanted more low end torque
10:12 PM Tom_L: that's not easy to find in all the chinese spindles out there
10:12 PM veegee: Tom_L just get one that's rated for higher power
10:12 PM ronox: whts the full context of what you are trying to convey here? understand i know very little about milling
10:12 PM veegee: I asked my supplier to swap it for the biggest spindle they have
10:12 PM Tom_L: veegee, the power curve is still at the top on those
10:13 PM ronox: are these considerations just for when your motor has to be pushed to its physical limits for a given material?
10:13 PM veegee: yes, but the bigger ones will still have better torque at low frequncies
10:13 PM veegee: ronox you'll never get to that point
10:13 PM ronox: ?
10:13 PM roycroft: speed is cheaper than oomph, and most people relate more to speed
10:13 PM veegee: ronox your chinese aluminum frame CNC router is not rigid enough to handle that anyway
10:13 PM Tom_L: if all you want to cut is wood, plastic and aluminum just about any of them will do that
10:13 PM veegee: ronox so you need to take advantage of RPM
10:14 PM ronox: it was more of a generalized queston
10:14 PM veegee: and like Tom said, they'll all handle those material just fine
10:14 PM Tom_L: try to tap with one though
10:14 PM veegee: but no don't try to do any tapping with such a machine
10:14 PM Tom_L: or cut steel
10:14 PM veegee: or that
10:14 PM Tom_L: i wanted the ability to do all that
10:15 PM veegee: that's why I bought a 6,000 lb universal mill
10:15 PM ronox: i might eventually make a basic frame, i have what seems to be a decent cross slide
10:15 PM Tom_L: veegee, and you have plenty of room for it
10:15 PM ronox: like, out of welded steel, and ill likely have to re-clamp the spindle to adjust the height
10:16 PM ronox: so im just considering my options
10:16 PM ronox: im very poor
10:16 PM veegee: ronox I wouldn't bother, aluminum is fine
10:16 PM Tom_L: i built mine on a budget as well
10:16 PM veegee: mild steel isn't that rigid
10:16 PM ronox: no i mean as a secondary thing to the cnc router
10:16 PM ronox: like, i have the cross slide anyway, might as well
10:17 PM Tom_L: i agree with veegee but i did make mine from steel tubing and it serves my purpose just fine
10:17 PM veegee: in fact, I think 6061 is more rigid than A36 mild steel
10:17 PM veegee: there's a reason machine tools are made from cast iron
10:17 PM roycroft: by weight, yes
10:17 PM ronox: ill cast a frame then :p
10:17 PM roycroft: cast iron is a very good vibration damper
10:18 PM Tom_L: you can actually buy a cast iron chinese frame
10:18 PM ronox: thermite is free when you have a big solar panel array doing nothing
10:18 PM ronox: and access to scrap steel and alu
10:18 PM Tom_L: or a complete chinese vmc for that matter.
10:19 PM veegee: roycroft I have this one: https://www.everlastwelders.ca/products/plasmacutters.php/powerplasma-82i-1.php
10:19 PM roycroft: i really need to install a back panel on my lathe
10:19 PM veegee: Unfortunately, unlike their PowerTIG series, this one is single phase only
10:19 PM roycroft: my woodworking bench is covered with cast iron chips and dust
10:19 PM veegee: the PowerTIG is internally 3 phase
10:19 PM veegee: But the powerplasma 82i has only a 2 pole breaker
10:20 PM veegee: so I have to open it up and see if it has a 3 phase full bridge rectifier inside
10:20 PM veegee: so I can convert it to 3 phase power
10:20 PM veegee: because it draws 50+ Amps at 240V and I hate wiring for that. It would be so much easier to just wire for 3 phase so I can use 10 gauge wire
10:21 PM CaptHindsight: I only have 3p 208VAC now, kinda weeny
10:21 PM veegee: 3 phase 208 is great
10:21 PM roycroft: my welding gear lives in my fabrication shop, which does not have its own power
10:21 PM roycroft: i had to make a 100' 6a extension cord to run the welding gear
10:21 PM Tom_L: i bet that's heavy
10:22 PM veegee: yeah that's like at least $1,000 in wire right?
10:22 PM roycroft: i bought a hose reel that's on big wheels to store it
10:22 PM roycroft: and to unwind it and rewind it
10:22 PM roycroft: actually, it was a lot less than that
10:22 PM veegee: then you got lucky
10:22 PM roycroft: i bought the wire 10 years ago, when it was already cheaper than now
10:22 PM roycroft: and i got it from home depot, who had it for $300 for some reason when everyone else was >$500
10:23 PM Tom_L: i made a ~20' one so i could move it around to the work easier
10:23 PM veegee: avoiding buying 6 gauge solid copper wire is why I want to convert my powerplasma to 3 phase
10:23 PM roycroft: add $50 for the plug and receptacle, and i built it for fairly cheap
10:23 PM roycroft: the hose cart that i store it on was another $75 or so
10:23 PM roycroft: and yes, it is very heavy
10:23 PM roycroft: that's why i have the hose cart
10:26 PM roycroft: veegee: my tig welder is the powertig 250 ex
10:26 PM roycroft: it seemed like a nice fit for me at the time, and i've been very happy with it
10:27 PM veegee: roycroft I have the powertig 325ext
10:27 PM roycroft: i got the water cooler for it as well
10:27 PM veegee: same
10:27 PM ronox: is there any reason i cant use a 600W RC BLDC motor for my router until i get a proper spindle motor for it?
10:27 PM veegee: the cooler is built well
10:27 PM veegee: ronox don't
10:28 PM ronox: mind you just for milling wood
10:28 PM Tom_L: it wouldn't last long i doubt
10:28 PM ronox: the motor?
10:28 PM veegee: ronox spindle precision, how are you going to mount the collets to it, etc.
10:28 PM ronox: ?
10:28 PM roycroft: you'll be putting heavy radial loads on the spindle
10:28 PM roycroft: that motor won't handle them
10:29 PM ronox: it will pass through a bearing
10:29 PM ronox: the motor itself wont be strained
10:29 PM ronox: or rather the motors internal bearings
10:29 PM veegee: ronox how are the tools mounted to the motor?
10:29 PM roycroft: every couple decades or so we all watch for black smoke or white smoke
10:30 PM roycroft: soon we'll all be watching for blue smoke
10:30 PM ronox: i can get an adaptor that fits
10:30 PM ronox: anyway its only temporary
10:30 PM Tom_L: roycroft, blue happens way more often
10:30 PM ronox: i have most or all the materials i need for a frame already
10:30 PM veegee: ronox well as long as you do it safely, worst thing that'll happen is you'll blow the motor
10:30 PM ronox: its watercooled so im not to worried there
10:31 PM roycroft: if you are going to get a temporary spindle for a cnc wood router, get a small (~1hp) wood router and use that
10:31 PM ronox: erm what
10:31 PM veegee: but yes buy a used wood router, they're so cheap
10:31 PM Tom_L: hack a cordless drill
10:31 PM Tom_L: if you're going to go that route
10:31 PM veegee: ronox https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/london/classic-sears-router-in-like-new-condition-comes-with-some-bits/1562555016
10:31 PM ronox: i cant tell whats sarcasm
10:31 PM veegee: none of it is sarcasm
10:32 PM ronox: ooh
10:32 PM roycroft: the cordless drill suggestion is :)
10:32 PM Tom_L: you said you're on a budget
10:32 PM ronox: i didnt know what a wood router was :p
10:32 PM Tom_L: roycroft, i've seen it done
10:32 PM ronox: yes that does seem like a good idea
10:32 PM Tom_L: dremel option is worse
10:32 PM roycroft: a lot of cnc routers use wood routers instead of proper cnc spindles
10:32 PM veegee: ronox it's the manual version of what you want to do
10:32 PM roycroft: in production
10:33 PM roycroft: just get a cheap triton or makita router
10:33 PM veegee: ronox just search on youtube to see how it's used. But it's designed for handling the kind of loads you need
10:33 PM ronox: can you use different endmills on a wood router?
10:33 PM roycroft: throw away the base
10:33 PM Tom_L: wood routers, you'll end up burning up alot of tooling
10:33 PM veegee: ronox yes
10:33 PM roycroft: and fabricate a mount for your cnc machine
10:33 PM veegee: ronox in fact a lot of CNC routers use the same bits
10:33 PM veegee: ronox for temporary use, that's wayyyy better than an RC BLDC motor
10:33 PM roycroft: wood routers have limited collet sizes
10:34 PM roycroft: that's really the main drawback
10:34 PM Tom_L: if you're not running at the right sfm you'll burn up the tooling and with a wood router that number will be rather high
10:34 PM roycroft: other than being wonky-shaped, and therefore posing mounting challenges
10:34 PM veegee: Tom_L they have universal motors right? You can adjust the speed
10:34 PM veegee: most of them aren't single phase induction as far as I can tell
10:34 PM roycroft: yes, you can use a speed adjuster
10:35 PM roycroft: that's the other big drawback
10:35 PM roycroft: universal motors are noisy as hell
10:35 PM ronox: whats sfm
10:35 PM veegee: surface feet/minute
10:35 PM veegee: I prefer surface meter/minute like a sane person
10:35 PM ronox: so i cant just run it exttra slow and safe?
10:35 PM veegee: that's what burns the tool up lol
10:35 PM ronox: ah
10:36 PM veegee: so adjust the RPM lower
10:36 PM ronox: and water is out of the question too then
10:36 PM Tom_L: veegee, sfm rolls of the tongue easier
10:36 PM veegee: ronox they're not washdown rated as far as I know :P
10:36 PM roycroft: that's what pisses me off about many of the youtube woodworkers
10:36 PM roycroft: they pause or slow down while operating routers
10:37 PM roycroft: and then have to talk about how to sand the burn marks out of the part
10:37 PM roycroft: instead of just operating the machine properly in the first place
10:37 PM ronox: waterproofing the router seems easy enough though
10:37 PM veegee: Don't bother
10:37 PM roycroft: i built a router table a few years ago
10:37 PM roycroft: manually operated
10:37 PM veegee: don't even bother with a proper spindle motor, you don't need coolant
10:37 PM ronox: ok
10:37 PM roycroft: but i got a water-cooled 80mm spindle for it
10:38 PM ronox: is $70 to buy a router table a good price?
10:38 PM roycroft: i did that because most of the spindles are air-cooled, and suck up through the motor
10:38 PM roycroft: in a router table that means all the chips/sawdust go down through the motor
10:38 PM veegee: my 6040 cnc came with a water-cooled spindle which is nice
10:38 PM roycroft: and i figured it would get pretty clogged pretty quickly, so i got a water-cooled spindle that is sealed
10:39 PM ronox: oh its $70 including a router :0
10:39 PM roycroft: i seem to be about the only person in the universe who has built a router table with an 80mm spindle
10:39 PM ronox: hmm
10:39 PM roycroft: i don't know why nobody else has done it
10:39 PM roycroft: it works brilliantly
10:40 PM roycroft: and i really like the er collets a lot better than traditional router collets
10:40 PM ronox: i guess a router table doesnt really easily convert into a top-down CNC router for also engraving and stuff
10:41 PM roycroft: no
10:41 PM roycroft: but it performs great for what i do with it
10:41 PM ronox: seems like it more or less is just a simple substitute for a band saw
10:41 PM roycroft: no, not at all
10:42 PM ronox: well, with 2D movement
10:42 PM roycroft: it complements the band saw
10:42 PM roycroft: it's not for heavy cutting
10:42 PM ronox: the router tables not? or the band saw isnt?
10:42 PM roycroft: when i'm using patterns i'll typically trace the pattern onto the piece of wood
10:43 PM roycroft: rough cut it to within 1mm or so on the band saw
10:43 PM roycroft: then attach the pattern to the piece with double sided tape
10:43 PM roycroft: and do the final cutting on the router table
10:43 PM roycroft: routers are not for heavy cutting
10:43 PM ronox: ah
10:43 PM veegee: I, too, once used double-sided tape for mounting a workpiece to the mill table instead of a vise
10:43 PM ronox: is $70 a good price for a GMC router table?
10:44 PM roycroft: i don't know what that is
10:44 PM roycroft: if it looks like it will give you $70 worth of value, then sure
10:44 PM Tom_L: factor in inflation :)
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10:45 PM ronox: hmm
10:45 PM roycroft: you can drill a hole in your table saw extension table
10:46 PM roycroft: screw a router undeneath, with the spindle below the hole
10:46 PM ronox: after a closer inspection i dont think i want a router table after all
10:46 PM roycroft: and you have a router table
10:46 PM roycroft: you can take a straight piece of wood and a couple clamps and have a fence for the router table
10:47 PM ronox: eventually ill probs get one, but not now
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10:47 PM roycroft: well you can make one for free by doing what i just told you
10:47 PM roycroft: and then you can see if a router table is useful for you before you invest any money in one
10:48 PM ronox: i dont have a tablesaw extension table
10:48 PM ronox: what i want to do would be much better done using a lasercutter, maing small plywood or MDF wooden frames for things
10:49 PM roycroft: that seems very smelly and smoky to me
10:49 PM ronox: https://hackaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/DIY-Arduiuno-based-Toroid-coil-winding-Machine-_-Arduino-project-22-52-screenshot.png?w=800
10:49 PM ronox: stuff like this
10:49 PM roycroft: and you would need a fairly powerful laser
10:49 PM ronox: yeah i know
10:50 PM roycroft: like 40w or more, at least
10:50 PM ronox: theres no half-measures with lasercutters, anything short of a serious one is effectively useless
10:50 PM ronox: nah id have to go well into the 100s
10:50 PM ronox: the K40s are crap
10:50 PM ronox: plus id wanna be able to cut at least 30mm
10:50 PM roycroft: i'm not sure that's the case
10:51 PM roycroft: it would depend on the application
10:51 PM ronox: K40s have their uses but im explicitly needing all this to make structural frames a 3D printer cant handle
10:51 PM ronox: a 3D printer can print anything a K40 can cut
10:51 PM ronox: in terms of strength
10:51 PM ronox: in many areas, as long as time isnt an issue, the printer can exceed i
10:52 PM ronox: so, given that im trying to make frames that would be unreasonable for the printer, the K40 also wont be able to either
10:52 PM ronox: better to go big, im saving up for a proper steel capable mini-mill
10:54 PM ronox: i forget the specific one im getting, it looks like a drill press, but apparently it can mill aluminium great and can mill steel too
10:56 PM ronox: https://www.ausee.com.au/shop/category.aspx?catid=57 it may have been this one
10:56 PM ronox: but probably not
10:59 PM ronox: ah here it is
10:59 PM ronox: https://www.micromark.com/8-Direction-Mill-Package?gclid=Cj0KCQiA34OBBhCcARIsAG32uvP2dGU66_wowbvD9q-OOfjM_XexRU0QWoQWOcGYLrEG6x3C2qtmQtEaAklCEALw_wcB
11:00 PM ronox: actually, could someone look at that and tell me if it can do steel? it doesnt explicitly say
11:00 PM XXCoder: that tiny thing, steel?
11:00 PM ronox: i had my doubts due to how large the frame is, i look at it and think "that just has waay too much flex"
11:00 PM XXCoder: dunno, but i dont think so?
11:02 PM ronox: what do you think would be the prohibitive factor exactly, for wether or not it could definitely handle steel?
11:02 PM ronox: mind you, mild steel
11:03 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vu3JLl9jvM
11:03 PM XXCoder: it can do alum
11:03 PM XXCoder: besides that dunno
11:03 PM XXCoder: it seems to cut alum shallowly
11:07 PM XXCoder: stainless steel, weakest possible one 416
11:07 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Ho1QlsKok
11:07 PM XXCoder: cut is extremely shallow
11:07 PM ronox: is that bad?
11:07 PM XXCoder: dunno
11:09 PM ronox: hmm
11:09 PM ronox: guess ill be buying the sherline
11:09 PM ronox: i have to check but i think it also can be reconfigured into a lathe
11:09 PM XXCoder: interesting
11:09 PM ronox: which would certainly be handy
11:10 PM ronox: that was also a selling point someone told me about, the reason it was better than the others i was looking at is it has an accessory to turn it into a mediocre lathe
11:10 PM ronox: though lathes are also inherently better than mills for any shape thing a lathe is physically capable of
11:11 PM ronox: within the same aproximate tool-cost brackets anyway
11:11 PM ronox: machine cost brackets*
11:13 PM ronox: anyway it can either reconfigure or you can just pull the spindle off or something i dunno
11:13 PM ronox: id mostly be lathing plastic anyway and only because id be making very small high speed parts that need to be balanced
11:19 PM ronox: hmm, nah seems i was mistaken
11:20 PM ronox: it looks like i could possibly just buy a few key parts of the mill cheaply then easily dissasemble and reassemble using the many common parts to lathe with
11:21 PM XXCoder: interesting
11:21 PM XXCoder: wonder if can make lathe mill combio
11:22 PM ronox: not much point, they put a heavy discount on the lathe-mill combo packages anyway
11:22 PM ronox: holy heck
11:22 PM ronox: i just looked at the pricing
11:22 PM ronox: its way cheaper now because the AUD/USD has changed a bunch!
11:23 PM XXCoder: aw lol
11:26 PM ronox: say, what are the benefits of an 8 directional mill?
11:26 PM ronox: does it matter as much once its CNC rigged?
11:30 PM XXCoder: good question :)
11:33 PM ronox: aww, postage is $700 from the US
11:33 PM XXCoder: yeah usa to au always cost a bomb
11:33 PM ronox: that means that its still gonna cost me $2500AUD after all
11:34 PM ronox: ah wel
11:35 PM ronox: say, any idea what makes this one here https://www.micromark.com/Nexgen-Vertical-Mill-W-Tooling-Package so much better that its almost double the cost of the 2000 https://www.micromark.com/8-Direction-Mill-Package
11:36 PM ronox: they look almost identical aside from the bigger axis
11:36 PM XXCoder: 'bigger axis probably lol
11:36 PM ronox: oh so thats really just it?
11:37 PM XXCoder: likely yeah
11:37 PM XXCoder: longer frame, bigger plate
11:37 PM ronox: they also call it "next gen" is that just because they found a way to put massive axis on a small micromoll without it shaking and resonating and whatever?
11:37 PM XXCoder: not sure if its actually worth double lol
11:38 PM ronox: so just a decked out overpriced deluxe version then
11:41 PM XXCoder: probably?
11:42 PM ronox: heh, its $600 cheaper on ebay than from sherline itself
11:42 PM ronox: but with none of those valuable non-optional accessories
11:43 PM ronox: on a mill like this would would it entail changing over all the markings from imperial to metric?
11:43 PM ronox: i cant quite tell if its metric or not
11:43 PM XXCoder: its from usa, its likely imperial
11:44 PM ronox: yeah, i just wasnt sure since in the pictures it says 10, 20, etc
11:44 PM ronox: so i assume its saying 10 but means 1.0 inches
11:46 PM XXCoder: ohthats interesting
11:46 PM XXCoder: lemme look
11:46 PM ronox: https://www.micromark.com/8-Direction-Mill-Package?_ga=2.214506320.613812130.1619495078-1695881606.1619495078&_gac=1.56080473.1619495078.Cj0KCQiA34OBBhCcARIsAG32uvP2dGU66_wowbvD9q-OOfjM_XexRU0QWoQWOcGYLrEG6x3C2qtmQtEaAklCEALw_wcB
11:46 PM ronox: the photo is too blurry to tell one way or the other
11:46 PM ronox: also i dont know which axis is x or u
11:46 PM ronox: y*
11:47 PM XXCoder: uh
11:47 PM XXCoder: sure looks metric when i look close
11:48 PM ronox: the X is 8.65" and the only visible marked axis is 9
11:48 PM ronox: i think it says N.0
11:48 PM ronox: ;-;
11:48 PM ronox: ah well, again wont really matter once its CNCd
11:48 PM XXCoder: ruler marks does look imperial
11:49 PM XXCoder: maybe picture isnt detailed enough for us to see .
11:49 PM ronox: in retrospect the X and Y are both vastly greater than 90mm so its probably inches
11:49 PM XXCoder: so it is actually 1.0 inch but looks like 10
11:49 PM ronox: ill ask if they sell it in normal-people units
11:49 PM ronox: i.e metric
11:49 PM XXCoder: i use imperial, but wish we usemetric too
11:50 PM ronox: i preffer a scientifically standardized unit of measure, not one based off how long 6 barley seeds are lined up
11:50 PM ronox: (thats where inches come from btw)
11:50 PM roycroft: the inch is a precise standard
11:51 PM roycroft: it is exactly 25.4mm
11:51 PM ronox: oooh i really hope theres no tax tarrifs
11:51 PM ronox: im going through checkout now
11:51 PM roycroft: but as far as history goes, the meter was a big mess at first
11:51 PM ronox: not gonna pay, just seeing if theres more options
11:52 PM roycroft: the metric system has no inherent "precision" that is lacking in american customary units
11:52 PM roycroft: it's just more logical and, most importantly, universally used in the civilised world
11:53 PM ronox: yeah i know, i just like to throw shade is all :p
11:53 PM ronox: its americas fault i have two sets of spanners
11:54 PM ronox: can hardly blame liberia and burma
11:54 PM roycroft: when i was young i worked a a bicycle shop
11:54 PM roycroft: because i was a bike racer
11:54 PM ronox: the only other two countries still using imperial as a primary
11:54 PM roycroft: we had three sets of tools - french metric, italian metric, and japanese metric
11:54 PM ronox: i had a cool metalwork teacher
11:54 PM roycroft: they were all very similar, but there were tiny differences
11:55 PM ronox: every student in the class started ditching or dropped out so i was his only student
11:55 PM XXCoder: Tom_itx: damn your rougher leaves pretty smooth surface
11:55 PM roycroft: such that using a japanese wrench on a french part might mar it
11:55 PM ronox: so he let me bring a chainsaw to school
11:55 PM roycroft: because the fit was not quite perfect
11:55 PM ronox: in 2012 btw
11:55 PM roycroft: this was in the 1970s
11:55 PM roycroft: while the metric system was pretty universal back then, not all si units were equal yet
11:55 PM ronox: and i then for my GRADED project, the free-choice project, i mounted the chainsaw engine to my bike
11:56 PM ronox: i got an A for making an illegal motorized bike
11:56 PM ronox: only catch was i couldnt start it since the pullstart was part of the plastic body
11:56 PM ronox: and i did not yet have access to 1-way bearings
11:57 PM ronox: in retrospect had i known what you could do with a mill id have used the milling machine (which i never got to use) to make a little flute-like quick release thing
11:58 PM ronox: two triangles on a cylinder
11:58 PM ronox: and a drill-bit for a cordless drill
11:58 PM ronox: with the same thing but reversed
11:58 PM ronox: that way it wont lock up once the engine goes