#linuxcnc Logs
Apr 21 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:19 AM Deejay: moin
05:25 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:25 AM XXCoder: good morning sir jt!
05:29 AM JT-Cave: WOW I've been knighted
05:29 AM XXCoder: yeah but not landed knight, mind. or id have called you sire
05:29 AM JT-Cave: lol
05:30 AM XXCoder: hows things
05:32 AM JT-Cave: making progress on the spoke machine automation
05:34 AM XXCoder: nice
05:48 AM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/images/customers/Foxy/Top%20Cutter/
05:49 AM XXCoder: nice a stack of wood gripper and mover
05:50 AM JT-Cave: yea that's the heart of the automation putting the blank in position to be grabbed by the spoke lathe
05:50 AM XXCoder: i guess some guy walk around and refills em as it runs?
05:50 AM JT-Cave: then getting out of the way before the top cutter comes down
05:51 AM JT-Cave: yea Steve watches them and runs manual ones
05:51 AM XXCoder: not bad
05:52 AM XXCoder: i love creating stuff, i just really suck on it.
05:52 AM XXCoder: i want to make star trek tricoder prop, but i dont know how to do electrics
05:52 AM JT-Cave: hmm I forgot to drain the hoses
05:52 AM JT-Cave: what electrics do you need?
05:53 AM XXCoder: oh display screens, lights etc
05:53 AM JT-Cave: 32°F at the moment
05:53 AM XXCoder: i was thinking use watch screen for round one
05:53 AM XXCoder: but like i said i know nothing :(
06:09 AM Tom_L: morning
07:18 AM veegee: Replaced the inner tube in my rear motorcycle tire
07:18 AM veegee: $50 including labour to rebalance and all that, not bad. Then it snowed randomly for the first time in April
07:29 AM JavaBean: forecast low for this morning was about 40f. currently 33f outside. deserts of far west texas
07:31 AM JavaBean: oh and about 20mph winds... not that that is important for conversation tho
07:34 AM Tom_L: that's just a light breeze
07:36 AM JavaBean: you aren't wrong... can get hurricane force microbursts around here that make things dissapear
08:05 AM veegee: Anyone good with wolfram alpha here?
08:06 AM veegee: I'm trying to ask it this very basic question: "power to heat 16L of water 60K in 1 minute in kW"
08:06 AM veegee: Yes yes I know how to do the calculation myself. I just want to know why wolfram alpha isn't understanding me
08:06 AM veegee: I can get it to give me the energy needed, but it fails to interpret my query as soon as I add the time dimension to calculate power
08:11 AM veegee: Ugh I might have to really spell it out for this god damn thing...
08:17 AM veegee: (heat 16kg water from 10ºC to 80ºC) to kJ ok at least that finally interprets the temperature as a relative range. It really doesn't like 70Kelvin and interprets it as an absolute temperature and gets confused
08:18 AM veegee: ((heat 16kg water from 10ºC to 80ºC)/1 minute) to kW and we're back to frying its circuits. This really isn't a difficult query
08:19 AM veegee: how does it not understand that energy/time is power. It had the energy dimension correct in the previous query. The only thing I added was the time dimension to it and it blew up
08:52 AM buzzmarshall: CaptHindsight: I was checking out your link for openlunchbox and wondering if theres anything active there and worth joining? or is it just kinda static and left for quests to view?
09:43 AM unterhaus: have to go get corvid tested again today, cataract surgery on tuesday
09:46 AM mrec: does a facemill add a lot pressure on the spindle? or less than a bigger endmill?
09:56 AM norias: unterhaus: what are you testing them on? Corvids are surprisingly intelligent.
09:58 AM unterhaus: norias, does that mean they will go to the hospital by themselves? That would be convenient
09:58 AM norias: dude. that's a good question
09:59 AM norias: will crows use free healthcare if they know it's available?
09:59 AM norias: sounds like a really good research study for a wildlife biologist
10:51 AM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: all old for now, the forums might have some info, the main website will get updated with some new interesting project when it happens
10:53 AM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: the open laptop wasn't possible anymore since AMD stopped releasing open source firmware
10:55 AM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: rusefi kept their project going, and open cellphone just has way to many closed blobs for the modem
10:55 AM roycroft: perhaps the open laptop project should start a gofundme for $300 million so it can design and build an open source cpu and chipset
10:55 AM CaptHindsight: modem/radio
10:56 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: riscv, but it won't make a very powerful laptop
10:56 AM CaptHindsight: Allwinner just announced a riscv SOC
10:57 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.cnx-software.com/2021/04/13/allwinner-d1-linux-risc-v-sbc-processor/
10:57 AM CaptHindsight: http://linuxgizmos.com/risc-v-based-allwinner-chip-to-debut-on-13-linux-hacker-board/
11:00 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.cnx-software.com/2021/01/13/beaglev-powerful-open-hardware-risc-v-linux-sbc-targets-ai-applications/
11:03 AM CaptHindsight: 25.8 max base latency on Rpi4 https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/39779-rpi4-raspbian-64-bit-linuxcnc?start=50#206615
11:03 AM norias: incidentally, i found out ARM finished work on a 64 bit real time processor with MMU in September
11:04 AM norias: afaik no one has licensed it, yet
11:04 AM CaptHindsight: neat
11:04 AM norias: but i feel like that means it's just a matter of time
11:04 AM norias: definitely sounds like a step up from previous ARM real time procs
11:05 AM CaptHindsight: how open will it be with nVidia in charge?
11:05 AM norias: who knows
11:05 AM norias: you would think it stays the same because it makes money
11:05 AM roycroft: do any of you use annular drills without flood coolant?
11:06 AM roycroft: does dab coolant work well enough?
11:06 AM buzzmarshall: cool... thanx
11:07 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: maybe $300m with $290m to pay off people to open the firmware again
11:07 AM buzzmarshall: risk-v seems like a nice idea but i still think its to early to waste time on till at least some major developments happen with it
11:08 AM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: I expect the usual of very little cooperation between many developers all racing to get unstable Linux going
11:08 AM CaptHindsight: hey it gets a command prompt!
11:11 AM buzzmarshall: seems more like its just a way to get around arm's licencing fee's but hopefully it will take off and get mainstream support
11:11 AM CaptHindsight: it is making news in the electronics press
11:12 AM buzzmarshall: on another note... i meant to ask the other nite... what cnc pendents are people playing with on linuxcnc?
11:12 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.eetimes.com/the-rise-of-open-hardware/
11:13 AM buzzmarshall: i see lots of mach3 cheapies and don't even mind ripping one apart to adapt it if need be, but was wondering if theres something more specific people are playing with
11:13 AM CaptHindsight: I checked the lead time for LPC1768, it's 6-12 months
11:15 AM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: I'd ask on the ML or check what you find against the sucess on the forums or wiki
11:18 AM CaptHindsight: all Chinese https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/mpgs
11:18 AM roycroft: personally, i don't care so much about hardware being open source as being interchangeable
11:19 AM CaptHindsight: standard form factors?
11:19 AM roycroft: so that people can build products using a mix of hardware and not have to fabricate custom adapters and the like
11:19 AM roycroft: yes
11:19 AM roycroft: and standard apis
11:20 AM roycroft: and standard file formats
11:20 AM CaptHindsight: as long as it is my standard :)
11:20 AM roycroft: i love how innovative apple are, and how well-integrated their products are
11:20 AM roycroft: but i absolutely hate how they design new connector interfaces all the time
11:21 AM mrec: did anyone hear about protolabs? I wonder how their price can be competitive.
11:23 AM mrec: My small motor adapter 380 EUR (around 450 USD)
11:23 AM CaptHindsight: mrec: I've made some custom materials for them
11:23 AM mrec: Material cost is 5 EUR
11:23 AM roycroft: and as far as standards being "my" standards, that's the real problem
11:23 AM mrec: I'm doing it myself and I'm just comparing
11:23 AM CaptHindsight: why they have $450m in revenue
11:23 AM roycroft: ther eare so many standards
11:24 AM roycroft: and every vendor implements standards in their own standard way
11:24 AM mrec: I really wonder.
11:24 AM CaptHindsight: mrec: Protolabs is more for OEM's
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: mrec: what tech does your part need? FDM/FFF or?
11:26 AM mrec: https://snipboard.io/SX7TBG.jpg
11:26 AM mrec: I'm just replacing the Z axis motor adapter of my mini CNC mill
11:26 AM drdoc: roycroft: Standards are a wonderful thing.
11:26 AM drdoc: Everyone should have their own!
11:27 AM mrec: 190x70mmx30mm
11:27 AM mrec: my current adapter is printed
11:27 AM mrec: time to replace it with aluminium
11:28 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.3dhubs.com/cnc-machining/ and others
11:29 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.emachineshop.com/online-quoting-of-parts/
11:29 AM drdoc: Does anyone have a link to a reasonably flexible shielded 16/4 or 18/4 wire?
11:37 AM unterhaus: I know some guys that used badger for machining services and were happy with them
11:38 AM unterhaus: the only problem with badger is they started spamming me, and that is a major no-no for me
11:38 AM unterhaus: the problem with emachineshop is they bid your job out and the guy that intends to make it with a file and drill press might get the job
11:39 AM mrec: a drill press would be enough for my part :-)
11:39 AM drdoc: mrec: that's a $450 part
11:40 AM mrec: I better keep improving my skills and save up the money for a bigger mill
11:40 AM roycroft: that reminds me
11:40 AM roycroft: amazon asked me what was wrong with the vise i received a couple days ago
11:40 AM roycroft: i already have my refund btw
11:40 AM drdoc: If I were bidding it for my old job I'd probably quote ~$500
11:40 AM drdoc: one-offs are never cheap
11:41 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: tell them what you told us, what vise, i just got a hunk of rough steel
11:41 AM roycroft: but my response was "i ordered a vise, and what i got was a chunk of some kind of metal that was roughly machined to slightly resemble a vise. it does have a screw, but the screw does not turn"
11:41 AM drdoc: oh my
11:42 AM mrec: so the only way to go is to do it myself anyway. The part is halfway done (I just stopped to not piss off the neighbours)
11:42 AM drdoc: speaking of screws turning
11:42 AM unterhaus: I wanted to get one of the 3" Palmgren drill press vises, but apparently they gave up and are selling some vise-like object that only looks like the old ones
11:42 AM roycroft: a palmgren would be fine
11:42 AM mrec: I need more parts for converting my manual lathe to CNC tomorrow.
11:42 AM mrec: the printed parts already fit.
11:43 AM drdoc: what's a sane max bid for this?:
11:43 AM roycroft: i just need to wait to find a vintage one that is actually a vise, but does not have a "vintage" price tag on it
11:43 AM drdoc: https://swicoauctions.com/online/26/item/79151
11:44 AM unterhaus: too bad enco is gone, they retailed for not much more than that
11:44 AM drdoc: roycroft: register for hibid.com in OR
11:44 AM unterhaus: on sale, anyway
11:44 AM roycroft: enco were part of msc
11:44 AM CaptHindsight: unterhaus: I have a couple Shars
11:44 AM roycroft: msc have good pricing for high volume customers
11:44 AM mrec: https://snipboard.io/WGjJeL.jpg
11:44 AM roycroft: enco had the same good pricing for everyone
11:44 AM drdoc: unterhaus: what should I be willing to pay for it?
11:45 AM CaptHindsight: unterhaus: but they are local for me so i can deal with returns or examine at pickup
11:45 AM roycroft: msc promised me when they shut down their enco divison that they would give me the same pricing on the items i bought from enco for a year
11:45 AM drdoc: it's UT, so it's probably well-used but not damaged
11:45 AM mrec: the ballscrew on the cross-slide will come later, first I'll go for the leadscrew
11:45 AM roycroft: and then immediately jacked the prices up 30% or more
11:46 AM unterhaus: I was wondering about Shars, I figure Palmgren is just mailing it in at this point
11:46 AM CaptHindsight: well Enco sold things for less than MSC so MSC had to buy them
11:47 AM unterhaus: MSC left enco alone for some number of years, but Amazon is really hurting them so they couldn't afford it
11:47 AM CaptHindsight: unterhaus: https://imgur.com/JQyhf5s
11:47 AM unterhaus: it always makes me mad when companies do that though
11:48 AM drdoc: so, is an Enco XY table good quality or no? and will parts be available?
11:48 AM roycroft: msc produced a hard-cover catalog
11:48 AM unterhaus: Cap'n, that's more vise than I need. I actually wanted one because you can stand it on its side and solder to things
11:48 AM roycroft: the enco catalog was paperback
11:48 AM roycroft: so the higher msc prices are justified right there
11:48 AM unterhaus: I don't think that MSC is sending me a catalog any more, thank goodness
11:49 AM roycroft: my newest msc catalog is several years old
11:49 AM unterhaus: I wouldn't mind having a newer mcmaster catalog though
11:49 AM roycroft: 2009/2010
11:49 AM drdoc: would you mind having a well-used 18x6 enco XY table?
11:50 AM roycroft: some of the enco branded stuff was pretty good
11:50 AM unterhaus: I think it would be useful to have that table, but I doubt you will get it for a decent price
11:50 AM roycroft: kind of fowler quality
11:50 AM unterhaus: don't think I would go above $200
11:50 AM drdoc: thank you sir
11:51 AM drdoc: last question for now:
11:51 AM unterhaus: I have a nice consumer grade drill press and I managed to knock the chuck off of it the other day drilling 4130
11:51 AM drdoc: where do y'all get your motor wire?
11:51 AM drdoc: (stepper)
11:51 AM roycroft: i got some on ebay
11:52 AM unterhaus: it seems to me that the high flex wire is expensive, but not unreasonable
11:52 AM drdoc: what I got off Amazon turned out to be 7-strand 18ga
11:52 AM drdoc: bend radius probably 12 inches :\
11:52 AM unterhaus: they didn't tell you that ahead of time?
11:52 AM mrec: I'm using a USB cable, but will probably switch to ethernet later.
11:52 AM mrec: (=cable for motor)
11:52 AM drdoc: unterhaus: on Amazon? no
11:53 AM drdoc: mrec: I don't think USB cable would last very long
11:53 AM unterhaus: I think I have seen the number of strands listed on some amazon products
11:53 AM drdoc: some, yes
11:53 AM drdoc: few
11:53 AM mrec: drdoc: why do you think? they look excellent but I need more wires.
11:54 AM drdoc: because I'm running 48V 3A drives
11:54 AM mrec: I need the fault channel of the servo (especially when I'm experimenting)
11:54 AM drdoc: drivers
11:54 AM mrec: power I'll feed via a separate cable
11:54 AM mrec: I feed*
11:54 AM drdoc: with steppers they're all power
11:55 AM drdoc: hence the 18 gauge
11:55 AM mrec: aah .. sorry I'm using servos
11:55 AM drdoc: np
11:55 AM mrec: I'm using one stepper for the A axis, a thick cable came with it.
11:56 AM mrec: good question that I might have to take care about when adding support for the C axis
11:56 AM mrec: C will also be a stepper here
11:57 AM drdoc: yeah, the Y motors are fine, but the Y & Z steppers need longer wiring than came with.
11:59 AM unterhaus: I am thinking about using some contactors so my drives don't turn on all at the same time
11:59 AM drdoc: interesting
11:59 AM unterhaus: I was going to get some 63 amp baomain from amazon, but a couple of the reviews are concerning
12:05 PM mrec: does anyone blow some air onto the stock for evacuating the chips? I don't have such a setup yet can anyone recommend some small setup for that?
12:06 PM roycroft: i try to avoid blowing swarf around with air
12:06 PM roycroft: it can make a mess, or it can put your eye out
12:06 PM roycroft: or both
12:07 PM drdoc: pretty-much anything you can blow out can be vacuumed out
12:08 PM roycroft: a chip brush works well for clearing swarf away
12:39 PM CaptHindsight: blow chips into a vacuum !!
12:42 PM CaptHindsight: https://techxplore.com/news/2021-04-fingerprint-3d-printer-accurate.html
12:46 PM roycroft: well i'm done with work for the day
12:46 PM roycroft: i can work on my gazebo now
01:19 PM CaptHindsight: anyone recall when Grub gets installed using the Buster LCNC ISO?
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: I think it is way at the end
01:21 PM Tom_L: i think you're right
01:21 PM Tom_L: but then we could both be wrong
01:23 PM mrec: is anyone milling aluminium, I wonder do you clamp the stock directly onto aluminium or are you using some piece of mdf below?
01:23 PM Tom_L: i bolt or clamp it to a sacrificial plate
01:24 PM mrec: is the plate aluminium or mdf?
01:24 PM Tom_L: aluminum
01:24 PM mrec: how thick is that one?
01:25 PM Tom_L: i think the last one may be 1"
01:25 PM Tom_L: i keep shaving it off
01:26 PM mrec: I think I'll go that way too within the next weeks
01:26 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Sacrificial_plate.jpg
01:27 PM mrec: this looks like a full diy machine
01:28 PM Tom_L: it was
01:28 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Chip_Guard1.jpg
01:29 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Column_Mill_VMC.jpg
01:29 PM Tom_L: the plan
01:29 PM mrec: I kept the dove-tails for my one.
01:30 PM mrec: linear guides are definitely more accurate, the dovetails are just too small for my machine to be really accurate.
01:30 PM mrec: linear rails
01:30 PM Tom_L: iirc mine were 20mm?
01:31 PM mrec: which software did you use for the drawing?
01:31 PM Tom_L: catia
01:32 PM mrec: I'm using freecad for everything.
01:32 PM FinboySlick: It's been a long time since I used catia.
01:32 PM Tom_L: i'm more used to it than solidworks
01:32 PM Tom_L: but they're similar
01:32 PM mrec: https://snipboard.io/5yJO9r.jpg I'm building up my lathe with it now
01:33 PM Tom_L: always good to start with a plan
01:34 PM mrec: the horizontal motor mount parts are already milled and installed
01:34 PM FinboySlick: mrec: What's teh donor machine for the lathe?
01:34 PM mrec: https://www.weissmachinery.com/brushless-lathe-series/57292655.html
01:34 PM mrec: the smallest of the smallest ones
01:35 PM mrec: Weiss is a good company, they even sent replacement parts for free
01:35 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Spindle/Control_Pannel1.jpg
01:35 PM Tom_L: overall turned out about like the plan
01:36 PM FinboySlick: Tom_L: Sherline spindle :)
01:36 PM mrec: I have ordered the quickchange toolpost, it needs some support to cut steel properly so they're shipping the regular one
01:36 PM Tom_L: yeah, that's all that is left of the sherline i started with
01:36 PM FinboySlick: Tom_L: I remember you had a neat enclosure for it.
01:37 PM Tom_L: i had so much tooling for it i just decided to keep using it for now
01:37 PM mrec: for my mill the drawbar is not straight anymore since I crashed the head (thanks to new freecad commands with the latest updates, it now needs some preprocessor settings)
01:37 PM mrec: Weiss is shipping a new one for free :-)
01:37 PM mrec: but I'm in Taiwan, so they're not so far away and sf-express is cheap.
01:39 PM mrec: https://snipboard.io/Nv8DC4.jpg that was the quick-fix to improve rigidity of the lathe toolpost
01:40 PM mrec: https://snipboard.io/wy4ko8.jpg that's it without support
01:40 PM mrec: https://snipboard.io/gjMexJ.jpg that's the regular toolpost
01:41 PM mrec: (4way toolpost)
02:02 PM * roycroft would just go to a hardware supply shop and buy a long 7/16" bolt, or would turn one on the lathe to make a new drawbar
02:06 PM enleth: so I have a new favourite name for those yellow translucent urethane hammers: "piss hammer"
02:06 PM enleth: the color matches almost perfectly
02:08 PM enleth: I mean, how could I not see this before: https://soshanger.com/WebRoot/LaPoste/Shops/box11137/569F/545C/3AAC/D6A9/E578/0A0C/05BC/DADD/601834.jpg
02:11 PM unterhaus: I wonder if Bridgeport ever made an nmtb30 spindle that fits my mill and has a bore for a drawbar
02:13 PM unterhaus: apparently they did, probably unobtainable though
03:26 PM veegee: What are these for? (port flange) https://www.princessauto.com/en/stamped-steel-nptf-port-flange/product/PA1000000566?skuId=1290230
03:38 PM CaptHindsight: for welding threads to a hole in a tank
03:45 PM veegee: CaptHindsight excellent. But why not use a bulkhead fitting instead?
03:45 PM veegee: Welding provides a better seal?
03:46 PM veegee: I fucking love the princess auto hydraulic fittings prices
03:46 PM veegee: JIC fittings are cheaper than pipe unions wtf
04:24 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:42 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:12 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:39 PM Connor: Question. Feeding a control panel. AC, I have power coming in, and it needs to be switched. Should I feed that into a din mounted power distribution block, then to the switch, and back out to a "switched" power distribution set? Or just wire power into the switch? Note: 120vac, only the L is switched, not the N
06:41 PM Tom_L: switch -> fuse -> rail
06:41 PM Connor: Yea, no fuse. I'm bad.
07:02 PM roycroft: power in to a latching contactor that is actuated by the switch, to the power distribution rail, to the fuses/breakers for the sub-circuits, to the sub-power supplies, to whatever you feed from the power supplies
07:37 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:35 PM Bleepshop|2: Screw it. If I couldn't get IRC on this thing any other way so I used 'ssh -X' and I'm running it on the same box as my other presence. LOL
09:36 PM * Bleepshop|2 is currently trying to beat the router into submission.
11:42 PM skunkworks: heh - I wonder if I could dig a K&T into the basement.../join mdadm
11:42 PM skunkworks: heh