#linuxcnc Logs

Apr 20 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:02 AM * Bleepshop does the 'Covered in Blue foam chips' dance again and gets out the shopvac to deal with the aftermath of the test run.
01:07 AM Deejay: moin
01:09 AM veegee: Can the auto shop patch a tire without taking it off the wheel?
01:09 AM veegee: My motorcycle tires are still in decent shape but a nail punctured the rear in the parking lot
01:10 AM veegee: I patched it temporarily with one of those kits and it almost worked; it slowly leaks back to almost atmospheric pressure in a couple of days
01:21 AM Bleepshop: veegee: Plug kit or patch ?
01:23 AM Bleepshop: Plugs are the worst thing you can do unless it's an emergency or a farm tractor tire, you'll have to dismount the tire to patch it properly.
01:26 AM Bleepshop: But on the plus side if it;s a tubeless tire and you do it right you can do it without having to remove the wheel from the bike. Pop one bead off the rim and slide the tire sideways to get to where the hole is.
01:44 AM veegee: I just wanted a fast solution until I can replace them in a couple of months. A new set will be like $420
02:00 AM veegee: Bleepshop actually I just realized I likely have an inner tube
02:00 AM veegee: they're spoked wheels
02:01 AM veegee: That explains why my plug was useless
02:02 AM veegee: Might as well take the tire off the wheel and check. Has to be done one way or another
02:31 AM Bleepshop: veegee: You can still patch the tube and tire without popping the wheel off if you're carefull.
02:32 AM veegee: Bleepshop I just wanted to avoid rebalancing but I realized that patching requires rebalancing anyway
02:33 AM Bleepshop: veegee: And when you're done Tire Slime is your friend. LOL
02:33 AM veegee: So no big deal to replace the inner tube. I don't even want to bother fixing it. They're cheap enough
02:33 AM Bleepshop: Slime will deal with the balance issue.
02:33 AM veegee: I'll just take the wheel next door to the auto shop
02:34 AM veegee: I don't have the tools or patience to break the bead
02:35 AM Bleepshop: veegee: I learned to break the bead on one and pach the tire and tube with what I could carry in the tool roll on the dirt bike 40 years ago. LMAO
02:41 AM veegee: Bleepshop I drag knee on the highway entrance and exit ramps. I don't need to risk my life on a $20 inner tube
02:46 AM Bleepshop: veegee: WTH are you worried about if you're never airborne on it? xD
02:47 AM Bleepshop: Or are you doing this at multiple Gs of acceleration and deceleration? ;D
02:50 AM Bleepshop: I sold a Kawasaki KZ-1100B years ago before I killed myself on it right after I mixed up the speedo and tach and was wondering "WTF is traffic on the freeway moving at 25MPH ?" as I was weaving through traffic. Realised that was 2500 RPM and I was doing 130MPH on tires with less tread than a windowpane. LOL
03:03 AM veegee: yeah I ride safe
03:24 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:21 AM Tom_itx: morning
05:17 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:18 AM XXCoder: yo
05:40 AM bjorkintosh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DELlCwp7Zk
06:44 AM miss0r2: the 101" land rover camper conversion is starting to somewhat look like a home inside: https://imgur.com/a/6bAKtnu
06:55 AM JT-Cave: starting to take shape, what is the 101"
06:59 AM miss0r2: that is the distance between axle centers
07:08 AM Tom_itx: 33F & light snow
07:09 AM miss0r2: 70F and beautiful sunny weather
07:16 AM JT-Cave: 42°F and sunny... keep that snow to yourself!
07:23 AM Tom_itx: should quit around 10 or 12
07:23 AM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
07:30 AM mrec: I just issued an M6 T3 so now I have that rare issue that linuxcnc is stalling any idea what that could be?
07:30 AM mrec: I can't even issue a power off in linuxcnc
07:30 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, have you ever tried those shredder cutters from lakeshore?
07:30 AM JT-Cave: no
07:30 AM mrec: hmm maybe a bug in the handwheel ... a reset on the remote recovered linuxcnc
07:30 AM Tom_L: https://www.lakeshorecarbide.com/tasrougher.aspx
07:30 AM Tom_L: i got a couple coming to try
07:30 AM JT-Cave: those look mean
07:30 AM Tom_L: that was my first thought too :)
07:30 AM Tom_L: you generally don't see small roughing em
07:30 AM mrec: is there any common way how to debug stalls in linuxcnc? is there anything in the ui?
07:30 AM mrec: it refuses to come up with the please change the tool message suddenly
07:30 AM Tom_L: mrec, is it waiting for manualtoolchange?
07:31 AM Tom_L: getting it to act up again might take a while too
07:53 AM mrec: this dynamic tool setter thing is also messy crap....
07:53 AM mrec: I just want to cut first it doesn't act, second it complains about the limits yes I know it's the tool setter stuff..
07:54 AM mrec: thousand ways to get it wrong.
07:55 AM mrec: this is so unreasonable...
07:55 AM mrec: the centerdrill works, but the drills don't while they are supposed to use the same holes
08:04 AM mrec: linear move on line 41 would exceed joint 1s positive limit...
08:04 AM mrec: very clear debug, line 41 is G80
08:04 AM JT-Cave: usually it say "near" line x
09:29 AM JT-Cave: hmm the price of the wifes insulin doubled this month
09:49 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:36 AM drdoc: hey, if any of y'all are looking for a rotary table there are a couple of Bridgeports on this auction
10:36 AM drdoc: https://swicoauctions.com/online/26
10:37 AM drdoc: I'm bidding on the XY table & the 6" vise - please don't cut my throat
10:38 AM drdoc: that's local to me - I can pick up & store or ship if need be
10:40 AM drdoc: Tom_L: that is some scary-looking tools
10:51 AM drdoc: Correction: I'm bidding on the 4" vise too
11:30 AM mrec: I'm converting a chinese rotary table..
11:59 AM unterhaus: the auctions for the tooling isn't under industrial machine & tooling !?
12:02 PM drdoc: I know, it's a weird site
12:02 PM drdoc: I think Swico is one guy
12:03 PM drdoc: but I've had good results with them
01:00 PM Bleepshop: OOPS!
01:01 PM Bleepshop: Accidently crossed neutral to ground tidying up wiring in the router table and took out the GFCI breaker feeding the shop.
01:08 PM drdoc: oops
01:08 PM drdoc: also:
01:08 PM drdoc: OW
01:09 PM drdoc: keyhole posts for my extra shelving are *not* cheap
01:37 PM JT-Shop: so I ran out of Kroy 3/16" heat shrink label and thought I'll just order a new cartridge... not possible as no one has any in stock except one place that wants 4x the normal price
03:00 PM veegee: lol what https://www.calpaclab.com/acetal-polyoxymethylene-chemical-compatibility-chart/
03:00 PM veegee: Diesel fuel - A Excellent
03:00 PM veegee: Oil: Fuel (... 2 ...) - D Severe Effect
03:00 PM veegee: something tells me that chart can't be trusted at all
03:01 PM veegee: And it gets an A for gasoline and light hydrocarbons like heptane and hexane
03:02 PM veegee: A for kerosene and D for No. 1 fuel oil
03:02 PM veegee: https://www.industrialspec.com/images/files/acetal-pom-chemical-compatibility-chart-from-ism.pdf same with this. I don't get it
03:10 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: I'm seeing a patterns of acids and oxidizers
03:13 PM veegee: https://www.arozone.com/en-us/tools/chemical-compatibility-guide I found a document better suited for what I'm doing
03:13 PM veegee: I'm getting a new diaphragm/ball kit for one of my diaphragm pumps so they can handle hydrocarbons
03:15 PM veegee: But then the document gives nitrile a C/D for gasoline
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: heh yeah from wikiepedia "Acetal resins are sensitive to acid hydrolysis and oxidation by agents such as mineral acid and chlorine. POM homopolymer is also susceptible to alkaline attack and is more susceptible to degradation in hot water. "
03:16 PM veegee: A nitrile diaphragm should be fine in gasoline
03:16 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:16 PM veegee: and it gives hexane a B...
03:16 PM veegee: so the parts of gasoline that are not hydrocarbons are really bad for it then?
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: looks like it
03:18 PM veegee: gives diesel fuel a B as well. Oh well, that's good enough for me
03:18 PM veegee: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/202755890985?hash=item2f35315f29:g:D-AAAOSw~-JdR6qv looks like I'm getting that rebuild kit
03:18 PM veegee: more than I paid for the pumps themselves
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: polymers used for liquid handling have to be looked at closely for compatibility
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: I used some fuel line hose for a short run of coolant. After a few years it became hard as a rock and brittle.
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: ends up it was the alcohol in the antifreeze/coolant that attacked it
03:28 PM CaptHindsight: polymers for very polar applications like water handling will have issues with non-polar solvent/hydrocarbons
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: since it easy to find and spec polymers for water by just using something non-polar
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: when the non-polar solvent hits it then it dissolves like sugar in water
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: or very soft by absorbing the solvent
03:38 PM roycroft: alcohols are such awesome solvents, as they're polar at one end and non-polar at the other end
03:57 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: did I send you the link to the other software stepgen on a microcontroller? Remora
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: was written for the Rpi to connect to a LPC17xx over SPI
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: https://remora-docs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: i wonder if his SPI instability is just due to the length of cable between boards
04:03 PM Rab: https://remora-docs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/development/development.html
04:03 PM CaptHindsight: I haven't tried it yet to see
04:04 PM Rab: I wonder if any effort was made to prepare a particularly reliable cable, e.g. with GND interleaved between the signals.
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: exactly
04:04 PM Rab: Or if it was just, like, "dupont" jumpers.
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: "Mbed OS6 port has been performed with a custom version of MODDMA. Some instability in SPI communication needs to be resolved."
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: he mentions 100-200mm with just dupont jumpers
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: a bit too long for that
04:06 PM Rab: Noise immunity is a must, with the drivers right on the Remora board.
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: i thought i had a LPC1768 board
04:07 PM Rab: Yeah, I guess it's a Smoothieboard-alike and not some specially built hardware.
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: but been 10+ years since i touched it
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: TomP is going to sort it all out
04:11 PM _unreal_: god I red that as SNORT
04:12 PM _unreal_: <CaptHindsight> TomP is going to snort it all
04:48 PM buzzmarshall: CaptHindsight: sorry was off doing something... but yea i got the link when you posted and been looking at it off and on... i am just not sure i'm interested in anything using smoothieboard as i looked at that along time ago
04:49 PM veegee: CaptHindsight yeah I know. That's why I'm getting the nitrile rebuild kit. All three of my ARO 666100 are santoprene for polar compounds. I need at least one nitrile one for non-polar compounds
04:49 PM buzzmarshall: currently i am still looking at the arisc allwinner thing
04:49 PM veegee: These air diaphragm pumps are the best pumps I've ever used in every way. So damn versatile.
04:52 PM buzzmarshall: ive got someone sending me a Pine H64 modelB he's not using so i look at it
05:03 PM rs[m]: CaptHindsight: probably refers to this https://os.mbed.com/cookbook/MODDMA
05:06 PM roycroft: do any of you use noga indicator holders?
05:07 PM roycroft: or similar?
05:07 PM roycroft: i have a small one, and i'm going to get another, larger one
05:07 PM roycroft: i'm deciding between fine adjustment top vs. fine adjustment bottom
05:07 PM roycroft: the one i have is fab, and i like it
05:07 PM roycroft: but fat seems much more common
05:07 PM roycroft: and i wonder why
05:08 PM roycroft: the way i see it, fat is much more fiddly because you're having to touch the holder close to the indicator, while fab requires moving the entire holder instead of just the tip and the indicator
05:09 PM roycroft: having to move the entire holder has never been a problem for me, though
05:09 PM roycroft: less the base, of course
05:09 PM roycroft: i guess i'm trying to figure out if fat really is a lot more fiddly than fab
05:17 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: just more examples of how to use a micro for software stepping
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: talked to the Rock64 devs about the spare Cortex M0..
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: they haven't worked with it much
05:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://liliputing.com/2020/09/this-10-single-board-computer-is-faster-than-a-raspberry-pi-3.html
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: rs[m]: thanks, it figures that all this cheap micro stuff comes up when I'm working on things on the opposite end of the spectrum
05:30 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:41 PM buzzmarshall: being i already have hdl/verilog cores from older projects where i used fpga's and cpld's i am really mostly interested in being able to use assembly level coding to create binary's that will run in the pru's of something like the beagle's but now that i am aware of the H6 and AR100's i am kinda researching that area as well
05:41 PM buzzmarshall: i am to old school for most high level lang's these days so i prefer assembly or c
05:42 PM XXCoder: rust seemed interesting but also meh
05:43 PM XXCoder: i also wish lcnc would move on from python also. language that can be compiled forever is better than ones that expire
05:46 PM buzzmarshall: i can see the use of python i quess for some things but when i started years ago on things like mcu's and mcp's they never the power they do now so i mostly just worked at assembly level for whatever the instruction set was which is about the cleanest you can get for control
05:46 PM buzzmarshall: not the most efficeint way to program i quess but thats how i learned
05:47 PM buzzmarshall: so when i look at things where timing is critical i just can't see using a higher language as its to new for me
05:48 PM Tom_L: roycroft, i have the knockoff version of the noga
05:48 PM Tom_L: works well enough for me
05:49 PM Tom_L: i've been told you just don't overtighten it and it's fine
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: I still prefer 1's and 0's
06:01 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: you around?
06:08 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: somebody mentioned https://learn.adafruit.com/welcome-to-circuitpython yesterday
06:09 PM CaptHindsight: CircuitPython is a dumbed down IDE like Arduino that of course gets complicated for any board that I would choose
06:09 PM CaptHindsight: also https://micropython.org/
06:15 PM enleth: XXCoder: what do you mean, "expire"?
06:16 PM enleth: XXCoder: even libc binary compatibility is not set in stone and it gets worse with any other libraries
06:27 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:27 PM JT-Cave: snowing here now
06:28 PM Tom_L: :D you're welcome
06:28 PM JT-Cave: lol
06:28 PM CaptHindsight: on the way here as well
06:28 PM Tom_L: sunny here
06:46 PM buzzmarshall: personally i am not a big fan of things like Arduino as figure if you can't learn the hardware and in Atmels case the Studio is more then enough to work with then why bother
06:47 PM buzzmarshall: and when it comes to 32bit the Atmels kinda suck as there are much better Arm based controllers then the Atmels
06:48 PM buzzmarshall: tho i will admit Atmels really good at giving you all the info you need
06:49 PM CaptHindsight: I get how they are for starting out to get some blinkenlights
06:50 PM CaptHindsight: https://circuitpython.org/downloads never even heard of some of the boards here
06:50 PM CaptHindsight: plus they don't explain how this works clearly
06:52 PM buzzmarshall: haha... holy crap thats alot of boards
06:52 PM CaptHindsight: it would be handy to have a spreadsheet with actual part numbers to board names
06:53 PM buzzmarshall: when the Atmels 1st appeared they were attractive as they were about as close to 1clock-1instruction as you could find without using a asic or fpga
06:54 PM buzzmarshall: and being risc based they were really useful with timing critical code
06:54 PM CaptHindsight: still are but also pricey now compared to all the new STM32 and LPC
06:55 PM buzzmarshall: after a few years tho they kinda just fell by the wayside outside the Ardoino scene
06:55 PM CaptHindsight: same for PIC
06:55 PM buzzmarshall: i agree the stm32 stuff is really cheap
06:55 PM CaptHindsight: great years ago
06:55 PM buzzmarshall: i like st
06:56 PM buzzmarshall: the pics were nice but then the atmels had more to offer
06:56 PM buzzmarshall: or at least in the area i played in
06:56 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.mini-box.com/pico-SAM9G45-X found this in my box of dusty boards next to a Panda
06:56 PM buzzmarshall: good old 8515's kept the sat scene going for along time
06:57 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PandaBoard
06:57 PM CaptHindsight: also some old STM32 dev boards
06:57 PM Tom_L: pics sucked with their banked memory
07:00 PM buzzmarshall: a few buds have the old sam based boards but i never bothered as i had moved off atmel by then
07:00 PM CaptHindsight: I used a lot of H8 and 8051 for PC embedded controllers
07:00 PM buzzmarshall: the last thing i was playing with from Atmel was the FPSLIC chips
07:02 PM enleth: AVR had the advantage of simplicity, too, compared to the likes of 8051
07:02 PM buzzmarshall: i remember looking at the Renesas H8 when i designed a glitcher but then settled on a different design
07:02 PM enleth: half a dozen memory types requiring hoop jumping sommersaults to use
07:03 PM buzzmarshall: lol
07:03 PM buzzmarshall: back then most of the smartcard wafers were based around princeton's so hopping around memory was kinda were it was at for me
07:04 PM buzzmarshall: atmels were nice for playing as the instruction set was really consistant across the set with most within 2 to 4 clocks per instruction
07:05 PM enleth: buzzmarshall: fun fact: 8051 is still used by NXP as a basis for their modern smartcards running JCOP
07:05 PM enleth: 8051 with MMU, memory protection and hardware acceleration of Java
07:06 PM buzzmarshall: ya i can see that as most still are based on princeton cores with a few extra secret instructions usually for handling the onboard map processors
07:06 PM buzzmarshall: stm's secure cards and even seimens really haven't changed all that much over the years
07:06 PM enleth: "8051 with MMU" is not a phrase you say easily
07:07 PM buzzmarshall: haha
07:07 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.friendlyarm.net/products/mini2440 remember someone got LCNC running on this
07:08 PM enleth: buzzmarshall: BTW, for a beautifully simple and elegant instruction set, look no further than MSP430
07:08 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:08 PM buzzmarshall: ive no problem believing in that as if you know enough about linux and most of the boards these days can be done not much surprises me with that
07:09 PM buzzmarshall: actually i got a couple of msp430 boards here that i was using to piggyback the drv8711's onto while building my drivers
07:10 PM buzzmarshall: they seem pretty niftey and awfully cheap
07:10 PM enleth: all you need to start programming it is one page of memory map and one page of opcode structure, opcodes have meaningful bits and you can build them instead of memorizing
07:11 PM enleth: that thing is literally human-programmable without an assembler
07:11 PM buzzmarshall: my control system is designed around drivers built with msp430/drv8711 and some extra stuff i use to interconnect them all
07:11 PM buzzmarshall: its kinda a modular thing
07:11 PM buzzmarshall: 8711's have a nice webinterface you can use to program all the driver settings
07:12 PM buzzmarshall: currently i am working on optically interconnecting the 480/8711 drivers which are at the motors back to the main controller
07:12 PM buzzmarshall: sorry 430's not 480
07:13 PM buzzmarshall: my original intent was to use the pru's in the beagle to supply the timing pulses
07:13 PM enleth: what's your physical layer for the optics?
07:14 PM buzzmarshall: ive been playing around with a few ideas to see what i can make work
07:14 PM CaptHindsight: I was never a fan of TI, they would not sell me the parts that I wanted to use
07:14 PM CaptHindsight: only parts that were of little value to me
07:15 PM buzzmarshall: was looking at the toslink to see if i can do something to make it work
07:15 PM CaptHindsight: you had to in their inner circle or you did not get the good stuff
07:15 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: their sales is a bunch of self-important assholes, yes
07:15 PM buzzmarshall: hm... ive always had good luck with TI and used to get tons of samples whenever i asked
07:16 PM buzzmarshall: analog devices was another good for freebies as well
07:16 PM buzzmarshall: i used alot of their low latency mux's back then
07:16 PM buzzmarshall: that was years ago tho
07:17 PM enleth: buzzmarshall: same here, toslink seems to be the answer if you need a cheap low-bandwidth optical bus
07:17 PM CaptHindsight: not a fan of Broadcom, TI or Intel, pretty much had no problems with any other vendors
07:17 PM buzzmarshall: ive not asked for samples in many years so maybe things are different these days
07:17 PM buzzmarshall: i concur on Broadcom i friggen hate their junk
07:18 PM buzzmarshall: lol
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: marvell was similar but at least they would say that Google bought the entire part
07:19 PM buzzmarshall: at least with companies like Broadcom back then most still didnt really believe in the Internet so there were always tons of ftp sites in with weak to no security
07:19 PM buzzmarshall: so finding info wasn't all that hard if you knew how to look for it
07:20 PM buzzmarshall: Marvell's i never really touched till last year when i did a private project for someone opening up a Amazon box
07:21 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:21 PM buzzmarshall: i didn't know that that google grabbed them up
07:22 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:22 PM CaptHindsight: some great parts sure
07:23 PM CaptHindsight: like something you could use to actually build an ARM PC 10 years ago
07:24 PM CaptHindsight: Samsung was another, they had all the docs open up until they ran fast enough to build a PC
07:24 PM buzzmarshall: seems like everytime you turn around these days theres something new coming from someone which is good for the market
07:24 PM buzzmarshall: i finally just kinda gave up trying to keep up on most of it
07:25 PM XXCoder: enleth: yeah though changing language a LOT like py 2 to py3 is in my eyes worse?
07:25 PM CaptHindsight: same here
07:25 PM XXCoder: JT-Cave: send snow to me dammit!
07:25 PM XXCoder: ;)
07:25 PM buzzmarshall: tend to just stick to were i play now unless someone has something they were reversed
07:25 PM CaptHindsight: Samsung ARM 9 and 11 hey no problem, here are the docs, knock yourself out
07:26 PM CaptHindsight: A9 and A8, who are you, get lost!
07:26 PM buzzmarshall: i like that as thats the way they really should be
07:26 PM enleth: XXCoder: but that's a single change over what, 30 years? and the incompatibilities are documented in a single place, well defined and there are code migration tools
07:26 PM XXCoder: hmm true
07:26 PM XXCoder: is people still working on porting lcnc though? wondered about it
07:26 PM enleth: XXCoder: that's way less code rot that can happen with unmaintained C for POSIX
07:28 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: I tried pretty hard to stay away from writing any code
07:28 PM XXCoder: interesting
07:28 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: but now I have to write pretty much everything I need since it just not going to happen unless i do it
07:29 PM buzzmarshall: in most cases i tend to be the same but part of being able to reverse engineer stuff means creating tools to get what you need done
07:29 PM buzzmarshall: so one's forced to do some which is why i always just went to the bottom and used assembly
07:30 PM buzzmarshall: but as for writing complete apps or things like that i always get involved with a few others as i am no where near proficient enough with the higher languages
07:31 PM buzzmarshall: being a hardware person assembly just kinda goes hand in hand but by todays standards is normally not the way to go
07:31 PM buzzmarshall: unless you want to play in the mud
07:31 PM CaptHindsight: STM32's are so cheap and nice. If I get some time to get Remora working I might spin a complete industrial board with IO's and protection
07:32 PM CaptHindsight: and it it also supports closed loop
07:32 PM buzzmarshall: that would be neat
07:32 PM CaptHindsight: if it
07:32 PM enleth: speaking of - the world really needs an open hardware PLC
07:32 PM CaptHindsight: enleth: there are a few projects
07:32 PM enleth: one that is *not* based on a raspi
07:32 PM buzzmarshall: ive afew discovery boards here and was playing with the stm32's for a bit but then got sidetracked
07:32 PM enleth: ugh
07:33 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: anything good?
07:33 PM CaptHindsight: heh, there is a arduino based one and let me check the others
07:33 PM CaptHindsight: i was looking last month
07:33 PM buzzmarshall: rasp's seem to be everywhere these days
07:34 PM buzzmarshall: if they would get off the broadcom's then i would go look more serious at them
07:34 PM buzzmarshall: ive probably got at least one of each model over the years as they came out but then threw on the shelve where there still burried somewhere
07:35 PM enleth: they're a smart tv gpu with an arm core tacked on, for cryin' out loud
07:35 PM CaptHindsight: enleth: the good ones weren't cheap, much more than an off the shelf PLC
07:35 PM enleth: anyone trying to control snything importsnt with *that* is nuts
07:36 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.controllino.com/ not cheap
07:36 PM buzzmarshall: true and like most other tv based media players they have grippled the gpu's hardware part outside what they want to provide
07:36 PM veegee: Ok I pulled the trigger on this: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-other-business-industrial/mississauga-peel-region/18hp-hydraulic-power-pack/1547241805
07:36 PM veegee: That variable piston pump is the belle of the ball
07:37 PM veegee: I negotiated down to $1,000. I'
07:37 PM veegee: I'd pay that price for just the pump alone to be honest but I'm getting an entire monster of a power pack, complete with heat exchanger and a bunch of other goodies.
07:38 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.industrialshields.com/ dunio and Rpi based
07:38 PM buzzmarshall: ats... theres a name ive not seen for awhile... i used to do alot of work in their buildings up here in cambridge years ago
07:38 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.adafruit.com/product/3418
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: Digital Loggers PLDuino - ATmega2560 + ESP8266
07:41 PM enleth: veegee: oh wow, that's a heck of a find, you got that almost for free
07:41 PM veegee: enleth my kijiji bot is doing its job
07:41 PM veegee: search bar on every site is fucking useless
07:41 PM veegee: only way to get what you want is to crawl the entire site with a bot and create your own database
07:42 PM CaptHindsight: just a software project https://open-plc-com.github.io/open-plc/programming/mioc/mioc_en.html
07:42 PM CaptHindsight: uses Blue Pill STM32F103C8
07:42 PM veegee: enleth I've gotten so many amazing deals. $3,000 for a forklift that can lift $13,000 lbs. The day I brought it home (workshop that is), neighbour offered $15,000 for it lol
07:42 PM veegee: He's been looking for ages
07:43 PM veegee: The best deals are the ones where the seller is usually an old dude who doesn't know how to use the right description/category/keywords. That's where my bot comes into play
07:43 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: thanks for the links
07:44 PM CaptHindsight: enleth: if you find more, please let me know
07:44 PM veegee: CaptHindsight what are you looking for? I've been doing embedded systems design for years
07:44 PM CaptHindsight: mee too
07:44 PM veegee: I know lots about the STM32 series. Most important thing to know is that their documentation is a mess
07:44 PM CaptHindsight: we are looking for open source PLC projects that don't use Rpi's or duinos
07:45 PM veegee: Microchip and LT deserve a gold medal for their documentation and datasheets. Everyone else needs to learn from them.
07:46 PM buzzmarshall: thats kinda cool
07:46 PM CaptHindsight: maybe LCNC's HAL on something small and powerful
07:46 PM veegee: CaptHindsight using FPGA/CPLD?
07:46 PM CaptHindsight: classic ladder
07:47 PM buzzmarshall: interesting
07:47 PM CaptHindsight: not x86
07:47 PM enleth: me and a friend of mine had this nerd's dream idea of using a Lattice ECP5 FPGA for a PLC - the toolchain is 100% open, so you vould sythesize config changes on the fly onto the FPGA
07:48 PM CaptHindsight: enleth: just write a GUI for config
07:48 PM enleth: have an embedded linux with a management web interface and the yosys toolchain next to it in the same package
07:49 PM enleth: and convert ladder or whatever into verilog
07:49 PM enleth: that could work wonderfully
07:49 PM CaptHindsight: Allwinner and Rockchip parts are <$6
07:50 PM CaptHindsight: you have to add RAM and some boot ROM/flash
07:50 PM buzzmarshall: well if your not worried about hardware acceleration for the media end iether one of those boards would work
07:51 PM enleth: I'm not confiddnt enough that this really is a viable design to commit time into it - what do you think?
07:51 PM buzzmarshall: normally i would say the rk but inlight of the ar100 on the allwinners that would be good as well
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: vs https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32-high-performance-mcus/stm32h7-series.html
07:53 PM enleth: the linux part being management-only, it doesn't matter much what it would run on
07:53 PM CaptHindsight: with LCD + Ethernet and tons of IO
07:53 PM enleth: it could crash and the PLC would continue operating
07:53 PM CaptHindsight: what should the user interface be for programming them?
07:54 PM CaptHindsight: electricians are used to ladder
07:54 PM enleth: web-based ladder editor?
07:54 PM CaptHindsight: same for mnay "automation engineers"
07:54 PM enleth: for starters
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07:55 PM CaptHindsight: the hardware is easy to make
07:55 PM CaptHindsight: maybe the software is already out there in pieces
07:56 PM veegee: I love the principle behind open source and I'm 100% behind Richard Stallman
07:56 PM enleth: the hard part is converting LD/ST/IL to verilog
07:56 PM veegee: But Xilinx Spartan stuff was really easy to get started with like 12 years ago when I was like 18 years old and just starting school and didn't know anything
07:56 PM enleth: and integrating industrial bus support into it for external I/O
07:56 PM veegee: And it all worked exactly as expected with verilog
07:57 PM veegee: enleth if you use the Xilinx toolchain, they have a whole bunch of "modules" that can be dropped in to support interfacing to several IO standards like SPI, I2C, PCIe, whatever
07:57 PM enleth: veegee: Lattice is the only viable option here as you can embed the toolchain
07:57 PM veegee: ah gotcha
07:58 PM enleth: xilinx tooling is HUGE
07:58 PM veegee: yeah
07:58 PM enleth: and binary-only
07:58 PM veegee: Yeah, which is the downside. BUT, it works
07:58 PM veegee: and I never had a problem with it
07:58 PM veegee: and it works quite well
07:59 PM enleth: the point of this idea is that you have this embedded linux on a SoC in the PLC, that has the FPGA toolchain installed
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08:00 PM enleth: literally as you edit your ladder or ST in a web interface, it would re-convert it to verilog, syyhesize a bitstream and load it onto the FPGA
08:00 PM veegee: enleth the guy with the hydraulic power pack just threw in a bunch of other random stuff like 3 phase motors and transformers for free lol
08:00 PM enleth: *synthesize
08:00 PM veegee: unrelated, but can't help express the excitement
08:00 PM enleth: you lucky bastard
08:01 PM veegee: If it weren't for kijiji, I couldn't afford even one forklift to be honest
08:01 PM veegee: used equipment is the way to go. 1/10 the price, all the features still work
08:06 PM CaptHindsight: enleth: are there any tools to convert ladder to Verilog or VHDL?
08:06 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: not that I know of
08:08 PM enleth: in practice, I'd probably rather convert ladder to IEC 61131-3 ST, then handle converting that to verilog
08:09 PM CaptHindsight: I recall some graphical tools for PLC's, more drag and drop vs ladder
08:09 PM enleth: ST is the closest thing there is for a standardised baseline language for PLCs
08:09 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: that would be FBD or SFC
08:10 PM enleth: they're all supposed to translate to ST
08:14 PM enleth: (there's IL below that, on the "assembly" level, but as a standard it's deprecated)
08:16 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: actually, I think the only viable way of doing that is a backend for OpenPLC
08:16 PM enleth: they have all the IEC 61131 stuff figured out by now
08:21 PM CaptHindsight: I'm looking at some of the hardware at their site
08:22 PM CaptHindsight: one way to get it cheap is just give the plans away
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08:59 PM veegee: There's gotta be a way to mount grinding wheels perfectly centered in an angle grinder
09:00 PM veegee: There's always a tiny bit of play which causes vibration and vastly reduces material removal speed because of the vibration/bouncing
09:00 PM veegee: The air angle grinder I have is built much better and the tolerances are much tighter so the wheels seem to fit perfectly every time
09:00 PM veegee: It makes a _huge_ difference
09:01 PM veegee: I'm getting to the point where I'm just buying one angle grinder for every type of wheel so I don't have to change them because it's such a pain in the ass to center them properly
09:03 PM veegee: The lucky times where the grinding wheel does mount perfectly in the center, it feels like a completely different wheel. It just works soooooo much better
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09:09 PM enleth: veegee: having a separate grinder for each wheel type is the correct way of using angle grinders anyway
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09:09 PM veegee: enleth really? I'm just doing it out of frustration
09:09 PM drdoc: get a good belt grinder and you won't need any of that.
09:09 PM veegee: Why is it the correct way?
09:09 PM veegee: drdoc I do have a belt grinder
09:10 PM veegee: there are many times when you have to take your tool to the work
09:10 PM enleth: becsuse changing tools on a grinder is a huge waste of time
09:10 PM drdoc: when I got mine my RA grinders got used maybe 10% as much
09:10 PM veegee: enleth word
09:10 PM drdoc: ^^^^
09:11 PM drdoc: but yeah, sometimes the belt grinder just don't fit
09:11 PM enleth: I have 4 grinders by the welding area now - cutoff, side grinding, flap and wire
09:12 PM enleth: plus a 230mm Makita with a cutoff wheel for huge stuff
09:13 PM enleth: cutoff is a Metabo with keyless nut because cutoff wheels wear down fastest
09:13 PM drdoc: I am a total idiot
09:13 PM enleth: (and it has a quick adjust guard)
09:13 PM enleth: rest are whatever
09:13 PM enleth: wire is adjustable speed, sometimes it's useful
09:14 PM enleth: I consider this to be a bare mimimum setup
09:14 PM drdoc: I was trying to solder terminal blocks into 1/2" x 1/8" Al bar for a bus bar
09:14 PM drdoc: I *have* #6/32 taps
09:14 PM drdoc: <--- durf
09:15 PM enleth: veegee: besides, ask any actual pro welder, they'll confirm what I said
09:16 PM drdoc: any pro *contract* welder
09:16 PM enleth: you change grinders in your hands, not tools on a grinder
09:16 PM drdoc: as an ex pro hourly welder, I've never worked anywhere that would buy me 4 grinders
09:17 PM drdoc: or provide a place to lock up my own
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09:18 PM enleth: yesterday I had two grinders spun up all the time, swapping between them a couple times per minute, to true up a few intricate shapes without using a cutoff wheel for side grinding
09:18 PM enleth: drdoc: well that must have sucked
09:18 PM drdoc: eh
09:19 PM drdoc: when you work for a paycheck, you do what you can with what you got
09:19 PM drdoc: the boss gets the most best work he paid for
09:34 PM veegee: enleth I don't doubt you
09:35 PM veegee: I just didn't think my laziness was justified haha
09:40 PM veegee: 10pm time for my sleep meds, the ones bill cosby wishes he had
09:40 PM veegee: which means I'm going to say some things I won't remember in the morning
09:41 PM veegee: #1: I love you all. You guys are the best. If any of you is in Toronto, free beers on me and you're more than welcome to use my tools
09:41 PM veegee: and borrow my equipment and stuff for free
09:42 PM veegee: Yes even roycroft I love you just as much
09:43 PM veegee: Damn these things are powerful. Makes you feel drunk like alcohol, but none of the nausea or other negative effects. And it's even stronger in every way. It never gets old
09:43 PM veegee: So glad I didn't abuse them and build a tolernace
09:43 PM CaptHindsight: enjoy
09:43 PM veegee: CaptHindsight I LOVE YOU THE MOST
09:44 PM veegee: Didn't know a god damn thing about forklifts. I felt like a man walking into a clothing store. No damn clue what to buy
09:44 PM CaptHindsight: what we are here for
09:44 PM CaptHindsight: it's all part of the service
09:44 PM veegee: But you helped me and I walked away with a wicked machine that didn't even have a god damn leak
09:44 PM XXCoder: veegee: nice! too bad youre million miles away lol
09:44 PM veegee: learned everything about hydraulics with that and rebuilt many more
09:45 PM veegee: (I use drugs for good, to help me sleep, as opposed to raping people)
09:46 PM veegee: and yes doctor approved, prescription and all that
09:46 PM veegee: and XXCoder love you too
09:46 PM XXCoder: bleh i just started certain drugs for good too
09:46 PM veegee: you're there at the odd hours when I can't sleep due to brain disorders and answer my random questions
09:46 PM XXCoder: arthitis of back. pain meds and muscle relaxants
09:47 PM veegee: like 4 in the morning
09:47 PM XXCoder: welcome :D
09:47 PM veegee: I had to give my sister back her cat now that she's settled into her new place so I'm a bit lonely. Time to bring my fluffy kitty from the office to the workshop
09:48 PM XXCoder: :0
09:48 PM XXCoder: :)
09:49 PM veegee: I've been told I'm a very loving drunk. I'll take it. It's better than any of the other types of drunks lol
09:49 PM XXCoder: sure just dont try literally make love with me :P
09:49 PM XXCoder: ;)
09:49 PM veegee: Anything that takes the pain away makes me happy. Pain makes me grumpy in the same way Dr. House's leg makes him grumpy
09:50 PM veegee: lol! It's not sexual at all
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09:50 PM XXCoder: yea
09:50 PM veegee: the same kind of love that I show my kitty baby
09:51 PM veegee: Shoulder gives constant insane pain from the surgeries they messed up a couple of y ears ago
09:51 PM veegee: guaranteed arthritis soon
09:51 PM veegee: sleep medication numbs that pain nicely. Gives you a taste of happiness
09:51 PM XXCoder: let me tell ya
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09:51 PM XXCoder: arthitis pain sucks
09:51 PM XXCoder: i have had it since i was 27
09:51 PM veegee: how old are you now?
09:52 PM XXCoder: 45
09:52 PM veegee: I'm 30, this started at 27
09:52 PM veegee: They botched 2 surgeries and split the ball joint in my shoulder open chopping a tennis ball in half
09:52 PM veegee: Just because they didn't get the right X ray angles
09:52 PM XXCoder: my back didnt quite develop correctly so it developed argtitis way faster than norma;
09:53 PM veegee: and I'm immune to morphine
09:53 PM veegee: worst combination of events. Insane pain, most opioids don't work on me
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09:53 PM XXCoder: sucks :(
09:53 PM veegee: nurses cut the call nurse line
09:53 PM veegee: anyway don't want to bum you all out. I was screaming in pain like from a horror movie
09:53 PM veegee: called 911 and everything
09:54 PM veegee: and after it finally healed, that dull pain never went away. The rare times I can numb it are pure bliss
09:54 PM veegee: doctors destroyed the cartilage
09:55 PM veegee: drilled screws that split the bone in half
09:55 PM XXCoder: :(
09:55 PM veegee: exactly like you can imagine drilling a lag bolt into softwood without a pilot hole
09:55 PM XXCoder: cant fix it or something?
09:55 PM veegee: it's healed now, but cartilage can't be fixed
09:55 PM veegee: THere are experimental procedures to perforate the bone to increase blood flow to promote cartilage growth which I will explore while still young
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10:03 PM XXCoder: nice
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10:04 PM veegee: But god damn it hurts so much most of the time
10:04 PM veegee: ANd there's no cure
10:05 PM veegee: naproxen helps, but causes stomach bleeding and using it every day will cause an early heart attack/stroke
10:05 PM veegee: only certain opoids help, but thanks to all the fuckwits abusing them, it's a bit hard to get a prescription
10:06 PM XXCoder: im VERY careful with ponental addictions
10:06 PM XXCoder: i have very bad willpower on quitting stuff
10:06 PM XXCoder: also why i never smoked or drank in my life
10:06 PM veegee: I'm super safe vs addictions
10:07 PM veegee: confirmed through testing myself, then later genetic tests confirmed
10:07 PM veegee: Even the adderall I take every day for past 10 years. It's chemically almost exactly the same as crystal meth
10:07 PM veegee: If I miss a dose, I don't go crazy or hide in a corner shivering like they make it look like in the movies
10:07 PM veegee: I'll just lose focus for a bit and make stupid jokes in the office and distract everyone
10:07 PM veegee: That's literally the worst it gets
10:08 PM veegee: Then someone reminds me and asks if I forgot to take my morning dose. And yup, that's it.
10:08 PM veegee: Zero craving.
10:09 PM veegee: Pizza is more addictive to me than any drug I've ever done. I crave pizza sometimes and I know it's not healthy but I order an extra large at least once a week and wolf it down solo
10:09 PM veegee: If I don't get it, it's all I can think about
10:09 PM veegee: Whereas with drugs, they won't even be on my mind
10:10 PM XXCoder: for me pizza each 2 months
10:10 PM veegee: But yeah thanks to all the fuckwits that abused them and killed themselves, the rest of us have to suffer with pain
10:10 PM XXCoder: i have hard time getting full on pizza
10:10 PM XXCoder: i would eat 6 to 8 pizza. way too much
10:10 PM veegee: LOL WHAT
10:10 PM veegee: I eat about 3/4 of an extra large for lunch and I'm set for the rest of the day. The rest for a light dinner
10:11 PM * CaptHindsight just ate 0.5Kg of Perogies
10:11 PM XXCoder: yeah im not exactly lightweight lol
10:14 PM roycroft: i make pizza once/week, and i eat half of it when i make it, and the other half a couple days later
10:14 PM CaptHindsight: heh I was making it every day
10:14 PM roycroft: i'm talking a 300mm diameter pizza
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: dough from scratch
10:15 PM roycroft: i was making the dough from scratch for a while
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: now just once a week
10:15 PM roycroft: but i found sources for a couple really good dough balls that are really fresh and only cost $3
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: I'm a carboholic
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: I really love good breads
10:15 PM roycroft: so now usually just buy a dough ball instead of making it from scratch
10:16 PM roycroft: me too
10:16 PM roycroft: but i need to watch my carbs
10:16 PM roycroft: i'm doing reasonably well at that
10:16 PM roycroft: but not well enough
10:16 PM CaptHindsight: I had my 40oz fizzy soda for the week
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10:17 PM CaptHindsight: good baguettes, bagels etc
10:23 PM CaptHindsight: enleth: https://openlunchbox.com/ a few years ago we set this up for open hardware
10:24 PM CaptHindsight: there was no longer a way to have open firmware for x86 so the project died but it still gets lots of hits and downloads from China
10:25 PM CaptHindsight: so if someone were to post open hardware docs, gerbers, BOM etc they will get copied and produced
10:32 PM CaptHindsight: OpenPLC-NEO uses https://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=132
10:32 PM CaptHindsight: Allwinner H3, Quad-core Cortex-A7 Up to 1.2GHz board
10:33 PM CaptHindsight: OpenPLC-Zero uses Rpi Zero https://openplc.discussion.community/post/hardware-raspberry-pi-zero-10193513
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10:43 PM XXCoder: Rolf@Redfords.netC}byK(zlh6VWS>9
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