#linuxcnc Logs
Apr 14 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:42 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:50 AM XXCoder: cool :)
01:11 AM Deejay: moin
02:09 AM veegee: Flare fittings are my new favourite middle ground
02:09 AM veegee: Actually they're my new favourite "quick connect"
02:10 AM veegee: Sure you might need a wrench, but they're durable, high pressure, easy to couple and uncouple. Even under pressure if you have a ball valve
02:11 AM veegee: JIC flare or ORB and princess auto sells them for super cheap and they're rated for 3,000+ psi hydraulic applications so they're well-built
02:11 AM veegee: and flare fittings don't need silly pipe unions
02:49 AM drdoc: Best review ever for a 240V circuit breaker:
02:50 AM drdoc: Works great! House not on fire!
02:52 AM XXCoder: lol
02:58 AM drdoc: my problem is that we rent, and I'm not about to pay an electrician to install a breaker, cut drywall and install a box, and run literally 18" of wire
03:00 AM drdoc: although the truth is that if I get the drywall dust swept up before anyone sees it, I will be the only person that ever knows it's not original equipment.
03:10 AM drdoc: I'm reading google hits for "can I wire 2 120V circuits together for a 240V outlet?
03:10 AM drdoc: "
03:12 AM drdoc: (the actual truth is yes, if you have 2 opposite-leg circuits close enough)
03:13 AM drdoc: ((the Correct Answer is if you knew enough to do that safely you'd already have added a 240V circuit)
03:18 AM drdoc: holy crap
03:18 AM drdoc: https://qccharge.com/products/quick-220
03:18 AM drdoc: just holy crap
04:16 AM Tom_L: morning
04:19 AM Tom_L: mrec_, use a greenstone if you want to sharpen carbide
04:25 AM drdoc: or send it to somebody who does that
04:25 AM Tom_L: i doubt any shops resharpen inserts
04:25 AM Tom_L: they would probably laugh at you
04:26 AM drdoc: there's a guy here that does, but he won't touch it if it's chipped
04:26 AM drdoc: so no, he really doesn't do inserts
04:27 AM drdoc: Tom_L: didja see the Tesla adapter?
04:27 AM Tom_L: no
04:27 AM drdoc: https://qccharge.com/products/quick-220
04:27 AM drdoc: somebody went to insane lengths to make an insane device kind of safe
04:28 AM Tom_L: cord doesn't look long enough to reach to space
04:29 AM drdoc: what's a tesla run these days? $75-80k, base?
04:29 AM drdoc: and I'm gonna plug my car into THAT?????
04:30 AM drdoc: Huh.
04:31 AM drdoc: I think I know where there's a 240V line
04:31 AM drdoc: I just dunno where its panel is
04:31 AM drdoc: I know that heat pump aint 120
05:00 AM mrec_: Tom_L: I have no problem with my grinder
05:02 AM mrec_: https://www.machines4u.com.au/view/advert/BENCH-GRINDER-WG-200-8-900W/321244/
05:02 AM mrec_: I'm using something like that one
05:02 AM mrec_: I put it onto some small plastic stand to absorb the vibrations it's absolutely acceptable.
05:03 AM mrec_: without the plastic dampener my neighbour downstairs would probably kill me for the vibrations
05:03 AM mrec_: today I bought the motor for the cross slide of my lathe :-)
05:03 AM mrec_: time to start drawing
05:05 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:14 AM drdoc: hola
05:17 AM drdoc: I have a couple of coarse-ish carbon bricks - guy gave me them for helping get the pallet into his pickup
05:17 AM drdoc: no idea what to do with 'em
06:38 AM enleth: Tom_L: there are legitimate use cases for (re)grinding inserts - Stefan Gotteswinter did a video on that recently, he prefers his own grinds for extremely fine work on tiny parts
06:39 AM enleth: and/or for aluminum
06:40 AM enleth: mrec_: ^
07:22 AM JT-Cave: very shape inserts on aluminum leaves a nice finish
07:27 AM Lcvette: JT-Cave: o/
07:27 AM * Lcvette uploaded an image: (88KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/EvzLMWxQwebtnrwFhkspUBRR/image.png >
07:28 AM Lcvette: im trying to help my buddy setup his spindle enable and flood coolant enable relays but in stepconfig the pins his breakout board thing use for outputs are listed as dedicated inputs
07:28 AM Lcvette: any thoughts?
07:31 AM JT-Cave: 10-13 are always an input on the parallel port
07:31 AM JT-Cave: I assume the parallel port is connected to the bob with a standard cable
07:31 AM Lcvette: yes db25
07:31 AM JT-Cave: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/hal/parallel-port.html#_loading
07:32 AM Lcvette: yup thats what im finding
07:32 AM JT-Cave: the description is a bit fuzzy for the pins on the bob
07:32 AM Lcvette: im not sure why they would make the outputs on this thing on pins 10-13
07:33 AM JT-Cave: what bob is it?
07:33 AM * Lcvette uploaded an image: (225KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/uAaQJenguxeBhiUJLHAWJhKK/image.png >
07:33 AM * Lcvette posted a file: (2363KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/dXAIPjMApiYaWjnzbcylDMCq/MX4660d_V1.1.pdf >
07:34 AM Lcvette: mx4660
07:34 AM Lcvette: leadshine contraption
07:34 AM JT-Cave: most of the mesa stepper cards can support the mx4660 IIRC
07:35 AM Lcvette: he has a 7i76e but its in a cabinet he is building to upgrade to servos and other goodness
07:36 AM Lcvette: he runs his business with the machine and has been manually enabling the spindle and coolant for months now
07:36 AM JT-Cave: I think the pins 10-13 are inputs to the pc
07:36 AM Lcvette: because he couldn't figure thisn out
07:37 AM JT-Cave: so something connected to "Input 1" comes out pin 10 and goes into the pc on pin 10
07:37 AM Lcvette: i read it that way also
07:37 AM JT-Cave: he just needs an output to turn on the spindle?
07:38 AM Lcvette: spindle and coolant
07:38 AM Lcvette: both will use sa relay so its just charging the relay coil
07:38 AM JT-Cave: pin 1 and 17 are outputs
07:39 AM JT-Cave: General purpose digital input. It is connected to “Output 2” of the digital output connector (CN8 on Figure3). Used to forward an input signal sent from the connected motion controller to the device connected at “Output 2”.
07:39 AM JT-Cave: INPUT 2 ^^
07:39 AM Lcvette: ok
07:40 AM Lcvette: so pin 1 and pin 17
07:40 AM JT-Cave: yup and connect the coil to cn8 output 1 and 2
07:40 AM Lcvette: :D
07:40 AM Lcvette: \o/
07:40 AM Lcvette: thanks JT-Cave:
07:40 AM JT-Cave: any time
07:41 AM Lcvette: how are the chickenses?
07:41 AM JT-Cave: so if he has limit switches or home switches those get connected to pin10-13
07:41 AM Lcvette: he does those are all connected and running
07:41 AM JT-Cave: some are being a pain in the ass literately
07:41 AM Lcvette: uh oh
07:42 AM JT-Cave: I have 3 in jail for pulling butt feathers and eating them
07:42 AM Lcvette: biting chickenses?
07:42 AM Lcvette: /o\
07:43 AM JT-Cave: time to get moving and start my day
07:44 AM * Lcvette < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/HCagXnHvQmNMyqowaBXaVSUT/message.txt >
07:44 AM Lcvette: enjoy JT!
07:44 AM Lcvette: have a good one!
07:44 AM Tom_L: chicken jail :)
07:45 AM JT-Cave: yup that looks correct but can be done on two lines
07:45 AM Lcvette: sweet
07:46 AM Lcvette: Tom_L: the Clucker Clink
07:46 AM Lcvette: :D
07:47 AM Tom_L: he's got some bad mother cluckers
07:47 AM Lcvette: hahaha
08:11 AM JavaBean: JT https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/306885014786932737/831875602876465223/0c0ccb08c0b2a629.png
08:20 AM mrec_: enleth: ground inserts perform better
08:20 AM mrec_: ground carbide inserts.
08:20 AM mrec_: especially the chinese ones, the quality is quite a bit lower compared with Korloy
08:21 AM mrec_: Korloy is good even without modification I would say but since I have no non broken Korloy left I can't really compare
08:22 AM mrec_: I broke 10 inserts (double sided so 20) during my first parting off exercise
08:23 AM mrec_: the last bit I re-ground and it worked for a long time (I just broke that one too due to not fixing the stock firm enough) and then the chinese ones arrived so now I'm going with them.
08:23 AM mrec_: but I think I'll get Korloy again they're just safer.
08:25 AM mrec_: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Ha7393a64ff584752a30a0c32dbc603e4i/10pc-MGGN150-MGMN200-g-H01-MGMN300-Hartmetall-stechplatte-Drehmaschine-Schlitz-Klinge-H01-F-r-Aluminium-Schneiden.jpg_Q90.jpg_.webp
08:25 AM mrec_: I grind mine to LH
08:26 AM mrec_: is there an inexpensive way to remove the shaft from a stepper motor magnet?
08:28 AM mrec_: this electronic store had a perfect nema23 for me but they have some spur gear on it which I don't want plus the shaft size is reduced on 75% of the outter shaft.
08:28 AM mrec_: that stepper is just perfect for my lathe
08:30 AM _methods: you should be able to use a gear puller to remove the spur gear
08:31 AM _methods: then maybe some sort of shaft reducer/expander to get the shaft to the size you need assuming you have the space to do that
08:32 AM mrec_: hmm... I think I can turn one from steel, grind a part of the back side of the shaft and put two setscrews in
08:33 AM mrec_: I want to install a pulley on it and drive the cross slide with it
08:36 AM _methods: i guess you could also pull that gear and turn it into an adapter for the pulley
08:37 AM _methods: just turn it down to press into your pulley
08:37 AM _methods: you know the ID will be good for the stepper shaft that way
08:37 AM _methods: probably easier to just turn one from scratch though
08:38 AM mrec_: ok here we come to the question don't you think turning a gear will break carbide?
08:39 AM mrec_: initially I thought about cutting long slots into a steel stick and just cut it off with carbide but every teeth is just hitting the carbide
08:40 AM _methods: well interrupted cuts suck no matter what the tool is made of but yes carbide especially does not like shock
08:40 AM _methods: but i would think it should be fine especially for one part
08:41 AM _methods: i have no idea what the gear is made of though and if it's hardened or not
08:41 AM _methods: if it's a hardened gear i would just make an adapter from scratch
08:42 AM mrec_: me either, it's a small one in the worst case I could just ground it off
08:42 AM mrec_: grind*
09:05 AM enleth: mrec_: you don't want to remove the rotor unless you *really* know what you're doing
09:07 AM enleth: what you'll end up is a rotor with the magnetic field collapsed down to almost nothing, that needs to be re-magnetized before assembly
09:08 AM enleth: even taking off the endcap and letting the rotor tip over and touch the stator can be enough to destroy the magnetization
09:16 AM enleth: mrec_: if the back end of the shaft is visible through the back end cap, your best bet is to remove the gear destructively, machine the pulley - or an adapter sleeve for the pulley - for a tight press fit and use the exposed back end of the shaft for support on the press, to avoid pressing through bearings
09:17 AM enleth: the gear is probably hard, so it's also brittle - use an abrasive cutoff wheel to score it front to back between teeth and drive a hardened wedge in there to crack it open
09:19 AM enleth: flats are for D-shaped holes, set screws are for preventing axial movement of a pulley or a key
09:20 AM enleth: set screw on a flat as a sole method of torque transfer isn't worth two shits
09:27 AM enleth: in a pinch, you can get away with putting a pulley with a keyway on a shaft with a flat instead of a keyway - grind the key down to fit it in there, make sure it bears down on the flat as tightly as possible, crank down the setscrew as hard as it'll go and hope no one gets in there for as long as you're still working at that place
09:45 AM roycroft: it's probably better in that case to grind a second flat on the shaft 90 degrees from the first one, and use two set screws with two ground down keys, but still, eew
09:46 AM roycroft: but i suppose if you're able to fixture the shaft to grind the flat, you can fixture the shaft to cut a keyway
09:53 AM enleth: or go for the old school solution - cross drill the whole thing, ream in a taper and drive in a tapered pin
09:54 AM enleth: I don't think I've ever seen that done on anything newer than 1960s, but it would absolutely work
09:56 AM roycroft: taper pin, no
09:57 AM roycroft: but that's still a valid approach with shear pins, when a shear pin is desirable
09:57 AM roycroft: that's for a completely different problem, of course
09:58 AM enleth: I have a pretty big drill press from the 50s/60s with about half of the drivetrain coupled together with hardened tapered pins
09:59 AM enleth: they designed it with that in mind, it would be impossible to put it together with keys
10:00 AM roycroft: the handwheels on my sheldon horizontal mill (circa 1940s-1950s) are secured with tapered pins
10:01 AM roycroft: i think it's still not uncommon to use tapered pins for handwheels and the like
10:06 AM enleth: tapered pins do have some advantages - they ensure angular alignment on reassembly (can't put it together flipped around), secure two degrees of freedom at once, take almost no tools to remove and put in
10:07 AM enleth: but they would be a noticeable anachronism on most modern equipment
10:15 AM Rab: enleth, perhaps that's because the hole needs to be machined at the point of assembly for proper fit, while keyways and other features can be specced and provided by part suppliers in advance.
10:17 AM enleth: absolutely
10:18 AM enleth: but you still can buy those pins and there are some tiny ones being made, so it's still available as one of the tricks when you need to connect stuff that was never meant to be connected
10:18 AM enleth: and it'll be *way* better than a lone setscrew bearing on a "flat" hacked into the shaft with a file
10:19 AM gregcnc: i thought the demagnetization thing was for the ancient steppers
10:20 AM Rab: I follow the Clausing machine list, and occasionally there is deep unhappiness when a shaft or gear is pinned in place but the owner doesn't realize it, either because the pin is obscured by dirt or because somebody made a clever repair and there's a pin that's not in the manual diagram.
10:21 AM enleth: gregcnc: I can attest to having screwed up some perfectly modern ones that way before I learned not to do it
10:22 AM Rab: gregcnc, I have heard the same thing about DC servoes. It might apply to any permanent magnet motor. Although magnets fall off of the cheap BLDC motors all the time, and people just glue them back on.
10:22 AM gregcnc: I've had countless BLDC apart
10:23 AM enleth: there's probably more than one way to make the rotos and some are prone to this, while others aren't
10:23 AM enleth: but you're not going to know which your motor uses until it's potentially too late
10:23 AM Rab: I believe what I heard for servos is that the rotor can be removed and reinstalled, but the magnets must be left in place.
10:24 AM enleth: a motor repair guy can probably tell them apart by the feel of the rotor being turned by hand or something
10:24 AM gregcnc: i doubt it
10:25 AM enleth: different types of steppers do have a "feel" to how they turn when unpowered
10:26 AM enleth: and it changes if the motor's field is collapsed
10:26 AM gregcnc: all motors do and some have no "feel" at all
10:26 AM enleth: no longer snaps into discrete positions
10:27 AM Rab: That might change depending on whether they're attached to the driver electronics...
10:28 AM enleth: many 200/400 step NEMA frame steppers feel kind of like they had mechanical detents even when unconnected
10:28 AM enleth: the laminated body ones, specifically
10:28 AM gregcnc: most PM motors do
10:29 AM Rab: Even powered down electronics might load the windings, or dissipate the energy in some way that increases or reduces cogging.
10:29 AM enleth: that goes away almost completely in the ones that didn't like being pulled apart
10:31 AM mrec_: enleth: I'll keep it as it is, thanks for the hint.
10:31 AM gregcnc: disregarding the magnetism, replacing a shaft in a small motor generally isn't easy
10:31 AM enleth: anyway, I just don't take steppers apart, I've had some die from that and I have no idea how to tell them apart before disassembly so I just don't, as a rule
10:32 AM mrec_: I removed the gear on it already I just rasp it off manually it was soft steel and small.
10:33 AM mrec_: the main shaft is 8mm the tip is 10mm (long) and shaft thickness 5mm
10:35 AM enleth: mrec_: press fit is probably the only sensible way to mount anything on a 5mm shaft
10:38 AM enleth: well, that and a spline shaft, in general
12:13 PM mrec_: I will mount the small pulley on that one that should be okay
12:13 PM mrec_: it's only for the crossslide of the lathe
12:14 PM mrec_: I'll settle with an MXL 60 / MXL 30(possibly 20) pulleys, 10mm belt width
12:18 PM veegee: They manage to make spotify shittier and shittier
12:18 PM veegee: time to switch to something else
12:19 PM sensille: how so?
12:19 PM veegee: the UI is the worst
12:19 PM veegee: a music player is hard to fuck up, it's been done for like 20 years
12:19 PM veegee: just copy winamp and you're set
12:19 PM veegee: but somehow they managed to fuck it up
12:20 PM veegee: can't even sort by artist without click through additional menus
12:20 PM sensille: i haven't noticed yet
12:20 PM veegee: it's also slow and laggy, always has been
12:22 PM sensille: every "modern" interface is slow and laggy :(
12:33 PM JT-Shop: I finally figured out why my S10+ was playing every song twice in my worktunes!
12:34 PM JT-Shop: the helpful girl at Verizon copied all the songs from my S4 then moved the sd card from the S4 to the S10+ then I had the songs in phone/Music and card/Music
12:38 PM drdoc: Double your pleasure, bouble your fun?
12:38 PM drdoc: *double
12:39 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, yeah i had that happen on mine with the phone list and a few other things on mine
12:39 PM Tom_L: one entry has an old phone number associated with it that i can't delete
12:39 PM Tom_L: you go to edit and it's not there
12:46 PM JT-Shop: weird, did you try and go into the phone from a pc with the usb cord?
12:46 PM drdoc: sounds like a Google backup thing
12:49 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, no not on the phone entries
12:50 PM Tom_L: i've never looked for them from the pc
12:51 PM Tom_L: do you know where they're stored?
12:54 PM JT-Shop: I'll look
12:55 PM Tom_L: mine's a 9 but that's likely not changed
12:56 PM JT-Shop: I think they are on the sim
12:57 PM Tom_L: mine doesn't have an installable sim
12:57 PM JT-Shop: I think you can copy the contacts from the sim to the sd card as a backup dunno if you can edit it or not
12:59 PM Tom_L: these don't have an accessible sd
01:03 PM veegee: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26728216
01:03 PM veegee: First comment so fucking frustrating
01:03 PM veegee: Not everyone lives in a California climate
01:04 PM veegee: We NEED cars
01:04 PM veegee: idiots like this can't see past their own little world
01:04 PM veegee: you can't walk and bicycle to work every day in the winter
01:05 PM CaptHindsight: well don't live where it's cold!
01:05 PM CaptHindsight: save on heating as well
01:05 PM roycroft: please keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of progressives do not want to eliminate cars
01:05 PM veegee: oh, well that's a relief to hear
01:05 PM roycroft: there are some on the left with extreme positions, just as there are on the right
01:06 PM CaptHindsight: save a cow, eat a tree
01:06 PM roycroft: neither are the mainstream, although the way things are going in this country, i'd say the right are closer to their extreme contingent than the left are to theirs
01:07 PM CaptHindsight: I'm waiting to see how much remote work stays remote
01:07 PM roycroft: i'd like to reduce the need for and use of cars, by better urban planning and encouraging people to work closer to home
01:08 PM roycroft: and i'd like to see us build a public transportation system that is not shameful even to third world countries
01:08 PM CaptHindsight: did productivity decrease when everyone didn't have to be in their cubicle to be monitored?
01:09 PM roycroft: and i'd like to see us become more energy self-reliant, which requires moving away from petroleum-based fuels
01:09 PM CaptHindsight: we always could have
01:09 PM roycroft: there are a lot of positive changes that can be made without taking cars away from people
01:09 PM sensille: the first comment isn't that bad
01:09 PM CaptHindsight: but capitalism
01:10 PM roycroft: what is this "capitalism" of which you speak?
01:10 PM CaptHindsight: China went from near 100% bikes to cars
01:10 PM roycroft: my understanding of it is that it would work fine in the context of the things i just suggested
01:10 PM roycroft: perhaps we should try capitalism some time in this country and see how it goes
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: it worked for China :)
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: we just do one thing and label it another, most people don't notice
01:13 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: how are the house prices doing up there?
01:13 PM veegee: Relatively stable but I haven't been keeping a close eye on it. Mostly because I have no interest in purchasing a house. They're useless.
01:14 PM veegee: If anything, I'd be looking at property outside of the city where you have some freedom and lots of land
01:19 PM CaptHindsight: the open land is great for some work, but you do lose out on culture
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: cultural desert
01:21 PM roycroft: housing prices in canada generally are up 30% since the pandemic
01:21 PM roycroft: in the lower mainland bc they're up over 50%
01:21 PM roycroft: wages have not increased in the past year
01:24 PM gregcnc: great reset is cool
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: If you have 4 CNC mills running LCNC on the same part, would you use a 5th to coordinate movements between them or use one of the four to act like a master that keeps the other 3 out of their "ways" or ....
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: use ROS to synch all four machines and keep them from colliding?
01:33 PM gregcnc: that's generally handled in CAM no?
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: four 5-axis mills, 2 above and 2 below
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: they mirror each other
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: and the mills are on a track to move them closer and apart
01:36 PM _methods: jesus that's quite the setup
01:36 PM _methods: and i have no idea how you would handle that
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, works on 2 corners (top and bottom) at the same time on rectangular pieces
01:37 PM gregcnc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhMalWEIz44
01:37 PM _methods: you should be able to construct that machine in most cam software
01:38 PM _methods: well any cam software that lets you configure the machine
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
01:38 PM _methods: probably not gonna happen in bobcad
01:38 PM _methods: lol
01:38 PM _methods: or something like that
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: another reason I'm starting to write a CAM app
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: for now I can run 4 separate tool paths for each
01:39 PM _methods: what's up with heekscam?
01:39 PM _methods: i haven't looked at it in awhile
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: I'm just trying to decide what to do about positioning each mill
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: the above and below are tied to each other, just mirrored
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: heeks is on break
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: I'm looking at expanding FreeCAD Paths to 5-axis
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: so the two pairs are on a track that moves them from touching side by side to ~2m apart
01:41 PM _methods: yeah that's quite the undertaking
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: well I've been on the sidelines for 10+ years
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: nobody else is going to do it
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: using a physics engine takes the work out of collisions
01:44 PM _methods: that's way beyond me for sure, for a setup that complicated i'd try and use mastercam and get their support on creating the post and simulation machine for it
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: I have their API
01:45 PM _methods: sucks spending that money but you'll probably end up saving a lot of time
01:47 PM JT-Shop: the housing prices are driven by the ridiculous price of building materials right now
01:48 PM roycroft: that's a big part of it
01:48 PM JT-Shop: a 100k house will cost you 240k due to materials
01:48 PM roycroft: and i don't see that changing for quite a while
01:48 PM gregcnc: people are still buying them due to low interest rates
01:48 PM roycroft: the pandemic has made a lot of people want to flee the dense urban areas and move farther out
01:48 PM JT-Shop: I don't see me buying any lumber for quite a while
01:48 PM roycroft: buying property and building
01:49 PM roycroft: people are also staying home, so doing a lot of home improvements
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Chih-Hsing-Chu/publication/225440504_Tool_path_planning_for_five-axis_flank_milling_with_developable_surface_approximation/links/02e7e521e998e1fe01000000/Tool-path-planning-for-five-axis-flank-milling-with-developable-surface-approximation.pdf?origin=publication_detail
01:49 PM roycroft: and even though the pandemic will end before too much longer (hopefully by the end of the year, but that depends on how some people behave), the trend of staying home more will likely continue
01:50 PM roycroft: sadly, i'm really close to starting to produce product from my wood shop, and so i'll be buying hardwoods soon
01:50 PM roycroft: i'm not sure if the hardwood market has shot up like the construction lumber market has
01:50 PM enleth: I've heard that structural lumber prices have skyrocketed in the US - I wonder if it means building an european style house (all concrete, CMU and other masonry) has become a financially attractive option for you guys
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: I heard that it has but haven't purchased any myself
01:51 PM roycroft: i bought some walnut a couple months ago and while it was mroe expensive than it used to be, it hadn't doubled or tripled like construction lumber has
01:51 PM gregcnc: wood jumped over a year ago
01:51 PM roycroft: a 2x4 framing stud used to be $2.50 here
01:51 PM roycroft: i've seen them for as much as $8 recently
01:51 PM gregcnc: doesn't seem to be slowing new construction around here
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: _methods: I have been avoiding software development the past 2 decades but it is time to jump back in
01:52 PM roycroft: i had about $14k of debt that i had been carrying and slowly paying down, mainly medical bills
01:53 PM roycroft: i was looking at paying it off over the course of about 5 years
01:53 PM roycroft: but since the pandemic happened i haven't been able to dine out, go to concerts, go on trips. or drive to work
01:53 PM roycroft: my living expenses went way down
01:53 PM roycroft: as of now i'm about $2k in debt
01:53 PM roycroft: so it's mostly paid off in less than a year
01:54 PM roycroft: other people have had similar decreases in living expenses
01:54 PM roycroft: i'm sure that a lot of those folks are putting the money into home improvements
01:54 PM gregcnc: many gave up waiting for prices to come back to normal
01:54 PM roycroft: it doesn't really matter
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: _methods: https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/29225/50140264-MIT.pdf
01:54 PM roycroft: if you're stuck at home all the time
01:55 PM roycroft: and you want to build that new deck to hang out on because you can't go to the beach
01:55 PM roycroft: it doesn't matter if lumber prices are high now and will likely go back down at some point
01:55 PM gregcnc: demand is not what caused prices to increase
01:55 PM roycroft: if you have the money for the expensive lumber, you build the deck
01:56 PM roycroft: i don't know of a supply problem
01:56 PM roycroft: so if it's not demand and it's not supply, it's old-fashioned price gouging
01:56 PM roycroft: which i'd guess is at least part of it
01:57 PM rs[m]: american and chinese demand for wood affects prices in europe, wood, lumber, particle boards etc.. all up 30% or so
01:57 PM roycroft: yes, lumber is a global market
01:58 PM roycroft: even though "lumber" is a strictly american term
01:58 PM roycroft: timber is a global market :)
01:59 PM rs[m]: it should not make sense to ship trees from europe to america, but it happens
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: German trees are better
02:00 PM roycroft: a lot of the premium logs from the pacific northwest go to japan
02:00 PM CaptHindsight: like everything German made
02:00 PM roycroft: yeah, but the forests in germany are in bavaria
02:00 PM roycroft: not the good part of germany - the north
02:01 PM rs[m]: hehe. how is "the north" the good part of germany?
02:01 PM roycroft: ask anyone from the north
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: just ask any german from the north :)
02:02 PM rs[m]: all the "premium" german car makers are in the south
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: it's all stereotypes we hear about over here, or well used to
02:02 PM roycroft: they speak better, they work harder, they belong to the better religion
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: like just about everything was first invented in Russia
02:03 PM roycroft: :)
02:03 PM rs[m]: like space flight
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: they don't even speak real german in the south
02:04 PM rs[m]: neither do they in the north
02:08 PM rs[m]: an example of proper german as spoken in the north: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Pomerano_native_speaker_Brasil-Espirito_Santo_1983.ogg
02:12 PM Connor: Anyone have any info on how to add a reboot and shutdown button to a panel using glade or pyvcp?
02:15 PM gregcnc: capthindsight it seems no quad 5 axis spindle mills exist. doesn't anyone want to make parts that big quickly?
02:17 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: has to be done <4 minutes/part
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: it's secondary operations
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: 2 minutes for 2 corners front and back
02:19 PM gregcnc: 100,000/yr?
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: 8 spindles could do all 4 corners and both sides but they though that might be too difficult
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: yes, high volume parts that are also semi-custom
02:22 PM JT-Shop: I had some sawdust near the garage door and it got wet and stained the concrete, is there a way to clean that off?
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: unsealed concrete?
02:23 PM JT-Shop: yea
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: Muriatic acid
02:23 PM JT-Shop: hmm I think I have some of that
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: aka hydrochloric acid
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: that stuff can really hurt you
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: but it will leave a cleaner pattern than the surrounding area
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: so it might look whiter where you pour it
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: take all the warnings seriously
02:27 PM JT-Shop: yeah I have a gallon of it inside a double zip lock bag
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: I keep a hose or full bucket of water nearby
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: in case of a small splash
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: goes right through jeans
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: didn't notice a splash until the wash
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: the easy version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuJr6MOq0gQ
02:36 PM gregcnc: the parts changing is what makes that hard, but how do they create teh parts themselves if they can't generate CAM for secondary ops
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: separate CAM for each
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: is the same for how I will do it, the distance between spindles/machines won't change when it runs
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: only between setups
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: part comes in and it gets set for the distance between corners, part gets clamped in the spindles run, then the part gets flipped 180 for the other two corners
02:40 PM gregcnc: I guess i don't know the scope of the job but it sounds like fun
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: sensors and cameras look at each corner to see if they oriented the part correctly
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: since the corners are not symmetrical
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: it's sort of like the bots that drill or weld car chassis
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: chassis rolls up, gets clamped in place and all the drills or welders go nuts at the same time
02:58 PM roycroft: well i'm really happy we had a discussion about tapered pins today, because that got me thinking again about my sheldon horizontal mill
02:59 PM roycroft: i bought the mill over a decade ago for a song and it needs a bit of work, but the handwheel for the y axis has a taper pin that was partially installed the wrong way, and it was really stuck
02:59 PM roycroft: i could not disassemble the machine to even see what work needed to be done until i got that pin out
02:59 PM roycroft: i had a few feeble goes at it over the years, but no luck
03:00 PM roycroft: today i went out to look at it at lunch time, and found a way to remove the y axis leadscrew from the machine without removing the handwhel
03:00 PM roycroft: i did so, was able to fixture the handwheel/lead screw assembly up firmly, and had both the leverage and support to whack on the pin harder
03:01 PM roycroft: which i did, and succeeded in removing without damaging anything!
03:01 PM roycroft: so yay! i can work on that now!
03:01 PM roycroft: but that means i have yet another project in the works
04:03 PM JT-Shop: I had to change my order of 96 6k Hyperikon led tubes to 5k or wait for 3 months... already waited 1 month
04:38 PM enleth: roycroft: naturally, every time you come up with something that only goes in one way, a dumbass is born who will sooner or later put it together backwards anyway
04:38 PM roycroft: the tapered pin was inserted into the handwheel correctly
04:39 PM enleth: but the whole thing was flipped on the shaft
04:39 PM roycroft: but the handwheel was installed on the lead screw shaft 180 degrees out of line
04:39 PM enleth: *?
04:39 PM roycroft: yes
04:40 PM roycroft: so the small end of the taper pin went into the big end of the handwheel, as it should, but into the small end of the shaft
04:40 PM roycroft: and then it was hammered in until it was very firmly stuck
04:41 PM enleth: well, that is why you don't go medieval on a pin if it doesn't feel like it's seating in there by itself
04:41 PM roycroft: iirc i paid $100 for this machine
04:41 PM roycroft: less than scrap value
04:41 PM enleth: then it can be excused
04:41 PM roycroft: so i won't complain about problems like that
04:41 PM roycroft: they are to be anticipated
04:42 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkEGwzFOGAM
04:42 PM roycroft: that is the mill
04:42 PM roycroft: not that particular one
04:42 PM roycroft: but that same model and vintage
04:42 PM roycroft: mine came with the variable speed motor, but not the base
04:43 PM roycroft: i'm just going to put a standard 2hp 3 phase motor on it and use a vfd
04:43 PM roycroft: and i have a nice base for it
04:44 PM enleth: is this the smallest horizontal mill ever made?
04:44 PM enleth: it's tiny
04:45 PM enleth: looks potentially way more useful than a comparatively tiny vertical, though
04:46 PM roycroft: yes
04:46 PM roycroft: it is small, but i think it will be pretty useful
04:46 PM roycroft: it would be great for making gears
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04:46 PM roycroft: and for facing
04:47 PM roycroft: it's small but it's still very heavy
04:47 PM roycroft: so i'd anticipate it will be at least somewhat rigid
04:47 PM roycroft: definitely worth $100
04:47 PM roycroft: i only have one arbor for it
04:48 PM roycroft: but arbors can be made
04:48 PM enleth: other than the knee elevation screw, it appears very solid, almost massive for the size
04:48 PM roycroft: i have no spacer sleeves, and no cutters
04:48 PM enleth: that screw, though - it's a twig
04:48 PM roycroft: yes, massive for the size is a good description
04:48 PM roycroft: and yes, that knee screw seems a bit undersized
04:48 PM roycroft: but there is a knee lock
04:49 PM roycroft: so it probably does not matter all that much
04:49 PM roycroft: elevate, and then lock the kneed to the dovetailed ways
04:49 PM roycroft: it's probably fairly rigid when locked
04:50 PM roycroft: i've been wanting to get that machine running and use it for years
04:50 PM roycroft: that pin was the thing that was holding back all progress
04:53 PM enleth: BTW, a friend of mine is currently on a hunt for one of those for our shop: http://www.lathes.co.uk/avia/page3.html
04:54 PM enleth: one of the few and far between machine tools of the communist era of central europe that are actually good and worth buying
04:55 PM enleth: 80% of a Deckel or Schaublin for 20% of the price
04:55 PM roycroft: that looks like it would be a nice machine to have
04:56 PM roycroft: so the arbor support bracket bolts on when used in horizontal mode?
04:56 PM roycroft: i.e, unbolt and remove the vertical head, and bolt on the bracket?
04:57 PM enleth: yes, the vertical mill ram is also the horizontal mill overarm
04:58 PM roycroft: i've seen combination mills before but not quite like that
04:58 PM roycroft: usually the ram rotates 180 degrees to switch from vertical to horizontal mode
04:58 PM roycroft: usually in the context of the ones i've seen
04:59 PM enleth: the vertical head needs its own motor, but there's no need for the complexity involved in transferring power into the ram from below
05:00 PM enleth: Schaublins do that, the mechanism is insane
05:01 PM enleth: I guess you could put in two face mills and skim two sides of the stock at once with it
05:03 PM enleth: and it has the deckel-style vertical worktable
05:04 PM enleth: the horizontal table is just a huge angle bracket
05:04 PM enleth: you can remove it and fixture some really awkward and huge parts easily
05:10 PM roycroft: my handwheel arrived a while ago, and i chucked it up in the lathe
05:11 PM roycroft: i've no way of indicating the back (machine facing) side of the hub, which is unfortunate, but i was easily able to indicate the front side of the hub to 0.002", which i though was pretty good for a rough casting
05:11 PM roycroft: so i think i'm going to do the bore today
05:11 PM roycroft: my broach should arrive tomorrow or friday
05:12 PM roycroft: i was concerned that i'd not be able to chuck it reasonably, since it's a rough casting and i don't have my 4-jaw chuck usable yet
05:13 PM roycroft: but since it's just a handwheel it doesn't need to be a dead accurate bore
05:14 PM roycroft: the bore will be accurately sized, i should be clear
05:14 PM roycroft: but it may not be perfectly concentric
05:27 PM drdoc: if love to talk to the guy who wired this house
05:28 PM drdoc: the breaker panel in the garage is all 120v so I went looking for the master panel
05:29 PM drdoc: the garage panel has 9 15A and 9 20A circuits
05:29 PM drdoc: the master panel breaker labeled "garage box"?
05:30 PM drdoc: 60A
05:31 PM drdoc: I can't make that math work
05:38 PM _unreal_: drdoc, god.... palm to face it makes perfect NON sense
05:38 PM _unreal_: eheheh
05:40 PM internut: drdoc?
05:54 PM enleth: drdoc: eh, you don't actually size branch circuit breakers for the combined ratings of all subsequent breakers
05:55 PM enleth: I'm not saying your house's wiring isn't a mess, haven't seen it, but this is not necessarily a part of it
05:58 PM Rab: That's ambitious for a 60A panel, though...315A
05:59 PM enleth: nah, that's not the right way of reading this
06:00 PM Connor: If I run the 5v supply line for a 7i96 next to AC 120v in parallel, will that present any issues?
06:00 PM enleth: someone wanted separate breakers for specific (groups of) outlets
06:00 PM enleth: that's not to say they intended the whole thing to draw 315A
06:01 PM Rab: enleth, I get that, but I suspect 5x is still overprovisioned according to code.
06:01 PM enleth: if there's a valid reason for those outlets to be independent, then it's not
06:02 PM enleth: sum of breaker ratings in a panel is not a thing in electrical system design
06:02 PM enleth: it's not relevant or interesting
06:03 PM enleth: the thing is provisioned for 60A
06:03 PM Connor: https://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc-enclosure.jpg
06:03 PM Connor: This is what I'm thinking..
06:03 PM enleth: circuits in it are provisioned for 15/20
06:03 PM enleth: and that's it
06:04 PM enleth: at least, that's the way things are done in my neck of the woods
06:06 PM enleth: case in point: every single apartment in a block is "overprovisioned", with a 25/32/40A breaker at the meter and several 16/20/25A breakers for lighting, kitchen, bathroom, living room and bedrooms, etc.
06:07 PM enleth: (values for 230V, substitute local standards for 120V)
06:07 PM enleth: that very much does not add up
06:07 PM Connor: Standard 200amp service panel for a house, would only handle 10x 20 amps... if it was a one-to-one.
06:08 PM enleth: yep, but it's not
06:08 PM Connor: Yup. Exactly.
06:08 PM drdoc: enleth: it's a4 bedroom house, probably 1600 square feet. that's fridge, waking machine, 5 ceiling fans, lighting and all on 60A
06:08 PM Connor: The WHOLE house is on 60A ?
06:09 PM drdoc: Connor: all the 120, yeah
06:10 PM drdoc: we're 2 people, down from 3, and very energy-conscious. we've never had a problem
06:10 PM Connor: What's a waking machine? :)
06:11 PM drdoc: but a family with 2 or 3 kids, this would never work
06:11 PM drdoc: it does laundry and keeps me from sleep
06:11 PM enleth: I can't find the proper english term for the concept we have in the code here, it translates directly as "coefficient of simultaneousness" or something like that. it's assumsd to be 0.20 for residential supply, up to 1.00 for industrial
06:11 PM Connor: The Dryer is 220. THe washer is 110v
06:11 PM enleth: I think it's obvious what it conveys
06:12 PM Connor: AC should be 220v, stove? Electric?
06:12 PM Connor: I could see all my 120v on 60amps.
06:12 PM enleth: I'm sure there's a related concept in US code
06:12 PM Connor: Almost all the bedrooms are on a 20amp by themselves.
06:13 PM Connor: bathroom on separate (hair dryer), but I changed that.
06:13 PM Connor: light fixtures (the few I have) are separate 15amp
06:14 PM enleth: yep, 60A@120V for living space outlets seems reasonable
06:14 PM Connor: anyway.. someone look at this and tell me if this will cause issues. https://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc-enclosure.jpg
06:15 PM enleth: that's 7200VA, not a trivial amount of power
06:15 PM Connor: the lime green and blue running parallel to the brown/white/purple (ac 120v for switch and light)
06:16 PM Connor: lime green/blue is 5v supply for the 7i96
06:16 PM Connor: the tan strips are place holders for wire loom..
06:16 PM drdoc: enleth: I've only ever heard it called "real world percentage"
06:17 PM JT-Cave: too squiggly
06:17 PM enleth: Connor: this 5V line is probably coming right out of the output stage if a power supply designed to supress 50/60Hz noise getting through the earlier stages
06:17 PM drdoc: and you're right; it's not one to one math. But 5:1 is easy, way out of code
06:18 PM enleth: Connor: doesn't matter which way the noise is coming from, it'll be supressed
06:19 PM Connor: Was trying to keep Low voltage away from high voltage..
06:19 PM Connor: the left side and middle is low voltage.
06:19 PM Connor: the bottom, right and top are high voltage ac or 48v dc
06:20 PM Connor: I could route the 5v over top of the board into the middle Low voltage loom
06:23 PM enleth: if you're going to lose sleep over it, do it; I'd be more wary of having HV and LV terminals right next to each other, but not continuous cable runs
06:24 PM Connor: The terminal blocks, are 48v / 5v / 5v Supply / AC
06:24 PM enleth: drdoc: then the codes are way different between our areas
06:25 PM Connor: Using the 5v Supply to separate the DC from the HC
06:25 PM Connor: Err.. AC
06:30 PM enleth: drdoc: I've done over 5:1 and it passed inspection without issue, as the blueprint said *why* that makes sense there - the coefficient I mentioned is a part of the code and I can overprovision all I want as long as I justify the value assummed for a given circuit
06:31 PM enleth: code provides default values and guidelines, but it's up to the designer to figure out what's needed and explain their thinking
06:33 PM enleth: obviously lawmakers in your area went for a more restrictive approach and probably had a reason
06:35 PM enleth: they say aviation laws are written in blood; well, electrical codes are written with the charcoal left over from house fires
06:36 PM enleth: different fires lead to different code
06:56 PM enleth: so I was wondering why would this bandsaw make such a racket: https://youtu.be/ggy9BmFK_JM
06:56 PM enleth: well, this is why
06:57 PM enleth: increasing downfeed helped
06:58 PM enleth: I should induce this again and record it as the adjustment is made and the cut stabilizes
07:02 PM roycroft: well my handwheel fits just fine
07:02 PM roycroft: and i probably don't even need the keyway for it, but the broach is on its way, so i'll cut it and use it
07:03 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZijDG6O-56U
07:03 PM roycroft: that is an interesting way to turn tapers btw
07:04 PM roycroft: the guy removed the cross slide lead screw and replaced it with a pneumatic cylinder
07:04 PM roycroft: and he has a finger on the back that follows a guide
07:08 PM enleth: roycroft: there are lathes equipped to do this from factory
07:08 PM roycroft: i know of taper attachments
07:09 PM roycroft: and offsetting the tail stock
07:09 PM roycroft: but i'd not seen this before
07:09 PM roycroft: i'm quite familiar with wood lathes that can follow templates
07:09 PM roycroft: this is the same principle, but executed more precisely
07:12 PM enleth: ("were" might be a better word than "are", I don't think anyone still makes them)
07:12 PM enleth: old analog copying metal lathes could be made that way
07:13 PM enleth: but with hydraulics
07:13 PM roycroft: well when i get my sheldon working i'll want to make some more arbors, with different diameters
07:13 PM roycroft: they're impossible to find
07:13 PM roycroft: and mine only came with one
07:13 PM roycroft: that technique would be a good way to turn the taper
07:14 PM roycroft: it seems like it would be a useful mod for the lathe
07:14 PM enleth: and you could convert a taper attachment into something like this with excellent results
07:14 PM roycroft: as far as i know there was no taper attachment made for my lathe
07:14 PM roycroft: but i could probably adapt one from a similar size lathe
07:15 PM roycroft: anyway, i'm off to an appointment
07:15 PM enleth: question is, can the cross slide screw be disengaged easily
07:15 PM enleth: that's 80% of the problem
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09:17 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
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09:38 PM veegee: my sum-ting-wong brand vacuum pump advertises 5 Pa ultimate vacuum but only goes to -0.96 bar
09:38 PM roycroft: maybe it works better on a mountain top
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09:39 PM veegee: It would work even better in outer space
09:39 PM veegee: Unfortunately passed the return date on amazon ugh
09:41 PM CaptHindsight: it's only 0.04 bar from from -1
09:41 PM veegee: It has too much internal leakage to pull a vacuum anywhere near its advertised specs. Higher RPM would help, but it's a shitty single phase induction motor
09:42 PM veegee: CaptHindsight that's 4,000 Pa
09:42 PM CaptHindsight: 5 Pa is 0.00005 bar
09:42 PM veegee: Any decent vacuum pump can get down to 20 Pa
09:42 PM veegee: yeah
09:43 PM CaptHindsight: whats that in inches of Mercury
09:43 PM Tom_L: roycroft, where'd you end up getting the broach?
09:43 PM veegee: 1 bar is about 750 mmHg
09:43 PM Tom_L: .0059
09:44 PM veegee: It does dry my reusable desiccant beads with the help of a little heat but a proper vacuum pump could do way better
09:44 PM Tom_L: http://www.kylesconverter.com/pressure/pascals-to-inches-of-mercury
09:45 PM Tom_L: in case you _really_ wanted to know
09:45 PM veegee: or just wolframalpha for everything
09:45 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.metric-conversions.org/pressure/pascals-to-inches-of-mercury.htm
09:45 PM CaptHindsight: Pascals vs personal assistant
09:47 PM veegee: https://www.amazon.ca/Robinair-15500-VacuMaster-Vacuum-Pump this one is probably more reputable
09:48 PM veegee: it advertises "40 microns" (40 micrometers of mercury)
09:48 PM veegee: which is 5.3 Pa
09:48 PM veegee: so I can reasonably expect at least 50 Pa ultimate vacuum
09:53 PM XXCoder: item not found?
09:53 PM veegee: XXCoder oh my bad, https://www.amazon.ca/Robinair-15500-VacuMaster-Vacuum-Pump/dp/B001P7C7QM
09:54 PM XXCoder: np,
09:54 PM XXCoder: interesting
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09:54 PM W1N9Zr0: robinair is a well known company, their two-stage pump should give you pretty good vacuum. the random one-hung-low brand single stage pumps definitely don't go as deep
09:54 PM veegee: It's a proper two stage pump
09:54 PM veegee: W1N9Zr0 yeah exactly
09:54 PM veegee: W1N9Zr0 LOL you watch Dave from eevblog too eh?
09:56 PM W1N9Zr0: not much anymore, he takes forever to get to the point in his recent videos
10:00 PM W1N9Zr0: i also once bought the cheapest amazon vaccum pump for degassing silicone, and it would never get all the bubbles, even after minutes of pumping. bought an old robinair two-stage on kijiji afterwards and it's like night and day-
10:03 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20210110_140020.jpg
10:04 PM XXCoder: wha
10:04 PM XXCoder: odd picture
10:04 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, moving something new in?
10:05 PM skunkworks: that is from the late 80's - the K&T
10:05 PM Tom_L: ahh
10:05 PM skunkworks: that is my mom...
10:05 PM XXCoder: tom picture is very 80s
10:05 PM Tom_L: the chains look a bit sketchy
10:05 PM XXCoder: i can tell that its picture of picture tii
10:05 PM XXCoder: too
10:06 PM XXCoder: i can see guy with phone
10:06 PM skunkworks: yes - I was going through old photos..
10:06 PM skunkworks: that is probably 6 tons..
10:06 PM skunkworks: No one was killed...
10:06 PM skunkworks: that we know of.
10:07 PM Tom_L: well, that's how the pros move stuff :)
10:08 PM Tom_L: what's your mom think of all your toys?
10:09 PM skunkworks: She is amazed at what we have done...
10:13 PM Tom_L: did you see that tap the other day?
10:14 PM XXCoder: interesting pic tho
10:14 PM XXCoder: wood is olvious for it to lay on
10:15 PM Tom_L: _might_ fit on the K&T :) https://twitter.com/4jawjan/status/1382098856922521605
10:15 PM XXCoder: tiny machine tap
10:16 PM Tom_L: 4" x 8 NPT
10:16 PM XXCoder: serously tho why?
10:17 PM XXCoder: why not just use thread mill
10:17 PM Tom_L: somebody needed a pipe threaded?
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: "I'll just dust under there for a minute"
10:17 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, maybe the taper is harder to program
10:17 PM Tom_L: i dunno
10:18 PM XXCoder: it can be done sideways i guess vs thread mill
10:18 PM XXCoder: it'd be self-centering and thread mill you have to find center accurately
10:19 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: was that on the way in or the way out?
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10:28 PM skunkworks: CaptHindsight: in. It is still in
10:29 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: we have a 2 inch tap we were going to rigid tap something. Just for grins. :)
10:29 PM skunkworks: (we used it on the track press)
10:38 PM Lcvette: need some lionux help on an issue ive been trying to resolve all day
10:38 PM Lcvette: * need some linux help on an issue ive been trying to resolve all day
10:38 PM XXCoder: yo
10:38 PM XXCoder: what iossue?>
10:38 PM Lcvette: i installed buster on my dev pc clean linuxcnc install
10:38 PM Lcvette: and when i try and run QTDesigner it fails to start
10:39 PM Lcvette: it started fine in stretch
10:39 PM Lcvette: and it runs find on another monitor
10:39 PM Lcvette: i saw that buster runs wayland instead of gnome xorg
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10:39 PM Lcvette: wasn't sure if that might be the issue?
10:41 PM Lcvette: or if anyone had any other direction i might look?
11:30 PM CaptHindsight: I don't think wayland is the issue
11:30 PM CaptHindsight: Lcvette> and it runs find on another monitor
11:31 PM Lcvette: CaptHindsight: yup
11:31 PM CaptHindsight: it runs fine with Buster on a different minitor?
11:31 PM Lcvette: And the monitor that won't run it ran it fine on stretch
11:31 PM Lcvette: Yes
11:31 PM CaptHindsight: monitor even
11:31 PM Lcvette: Lol
11:32 PM Lcvette: Not sure why a monitor would cause the issue but it does
11:32 PM CaptHindsight: some odd res monitor?
11:32 PM Lcvette: No
11:32 PM CaptHindsight: weird
11:32 PM Lcvette: 1920x1080
11:33 PM Lcvette: Both monitors are 1920x1080
11:33 PM Lcvette: And it ran fine in debian stretch
11:34 PM Lcvette: I saw buster runs gnome-wayland while stretch ran gnome-xsession
11:34 PM Lcvette: Wondering if that might cause it
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: I'm running wayland here and it starts
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: but I'm not using debian
11:38 PM Lcvette: Qtdesigner?
11:38 PM CaptHindsight: yes
11:39 PM Lcvette: Hmph
11:39 PM Lcvette: Im stumped
11:39 PM CaptHindsight: try starting from command line, see what the error might be
11:40 PM Lcvette: It doesn't give one
11:40 PM Lcvette: Well not one that's any different than on the machine that starts it
11:42 PM * Lcvette < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/gPFkPVLdZRAFsaDMCMbtGuYw/message.txt >
11:42 PM * Lcvette < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/dwfrAEgiKJHCRQcqbbpCtqOO/message.txt >
11:43 PM CaptHindsight: I'm not the one to debug linux
11:43 PM Lcvette: That's the broken one
11:43 PM * Lcvette < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/bYizXzsLauSzYjqYrJLtbEEb/message.txt >
11:43 PM Lcvette: That's the one that starts
11:45 PM CaptHindsight: what happens in the console if you type $ designer
11:45 PM CaptHindsight: was that the output ^^ ?
11:46 PM Lcvette: That was from editvcp probe_basic
11:46 PM Lcvette: But it does it with mini too
11:47 PM CaptHindsight: I don't know if those guys ever got editvcp working with Buster
11:48 PM CaptHindsight: I only have installed and worked with it using Stretch
11:50 PM CaptHindsight: andy had to massage some python libs to get the Buster release out
11:50 PM Lcvette: Works fine with the other monitor
11:51 PM Lcvette: Both pcs are buster, both run fine on one monitor both won't open designer with the problems monitor
11:52 PM CaptHindsight: "QTdesigner does weird things that it should not do"
11:52 PM CaptHindsight: he had to disable the radeon accelleration to get qtdesigner to load
11:52 PM CaptHindsight: I just asked the Linux dev down the hall
11:52 PM Lcvette: Ah
11:53 PM CaptHindsight: so he now hates QTdesigner
11:53 PM Lcvette: Lol
11:53 PM CaptHindsight: he said you might have to change drivers
11:53 PM Lcvette: This is the rust issue I've run across
11:53 PM Lcvette: First*
11:54 PM Lcvette: Yeah, i was wondering about that, maybe buster doesn't have the same drivers loaded as stretch
11:54 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ