#linuxcnc Logs
Apr 02 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:06 AM drdoc: roycroft: didja get your boss printing again?
12:13 AM drdoc: i.e. "off your back"?
12:19 AM veegee: Hmm this is the cost of the trailer I want: http://www.miskatrailers.com/open-steel-trailers/low-bed-floats/7-ton-bobcat-low-bed-float/t31
12:19 AM veegee: That's a totally reasonable price
12:20 AM veegee: BUT I'd rather DIY because it's more fun. I wonder what the cost of materials will come to
12:21 AM veegee: Actually this one: http://www.miskatrailers.com/open-steel-trailers/low-bed-floats/10-ton-hd-low-bed-float/t32 way higher payload
12:49 AM XXCoder: pallet restore" lol https://youtu.be/zhr9w-kO-Xg
01:24 AM drdoc: well, shazzbat
01:52 AM Deejay: moin
04:23 AM Tom_L: morning
05:37 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:55 AM JT-Cave: looks like 28°F is the low for the night here
11:19 AM burklefoo: Its warmed up here, we had a cool March with most nights in the 40's but now those are in the 50s and it's getting lizardy in the daytime
11:27 AM unterhaus: It just hit freezing here at noon. I have a plant I have been shuttling in and out if it gets below freezing, so I think I can take it out now
11:28 AM unterhaus: maybe not, supposed to freeze again tonight. Won't hurt it to stay inside
12:16 PM JT-Shop: yuck I need to clean out the VMC before making this part
01:01 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, 2nd shift didn't clean up after themselves??
01:18 PM roycroft: i have to work again this weekend, so i'm taking today off, which is kind of nice, because it's sunny today and it is supposed to rain this weekend
01:18 PM roycroft: i'm reassembling my blasting cabinet today - i may be able to test it out later on
01:19 PM roycroft: i hope it's much improved, after all the time and money i've spent upgrading it
01:22 PM roycroft: and the capitol is in lockdown again, with a shooting reported at the north barricade of the campus
01:23 PM roycroft: good grief, will this madness ever end?
01:24 PM * roycroft goes back to the shop
01:25 PM * Tom_L takes the rest of the day off
02:35 PM roycroft: jt-shop: are you about per chance?
02:37 PM drdoc: roycroft: where are you?
02:37 PM roycroft: i am in my office at the moment
02:38 PM drdoc: roycroft> and the capitol is in lockdown again
02:38 PM roycroft: but to the question i think you're really asking my office is in my house, and my house is in eugene oregon
02:38 PM drdoc: ah
02:38 PM roycroft: and yes
02:38 PM roycroft: i was referring to the us capitol
02:39 PM roycroft: someone rammed the barricade, killed a capitol police officer with a knife, and was shot and killed
02:39 PM drdoc: still trying to make amurka great again?
02:40 PM roycroft: so another cop has been murdered by the supporters of the "law and order" president
02:40 PM roycroft: i'm making a bit of a leap assuming the motive behind the wacko's attack
02:40 PM roycroft: but i think it's a fairly safe leap
02:40 PM drdoc: yeah
02:41 PM roycroft: i'd be astonished if the evidence suggested otherwise, but of course we really don't know anything until the investigation takes place
02:41 PM roycroft: two cops were stabbed, and one has died
02:41 PM roycroft: the other is still in hospitl
02:41 PM roycroft: hospital
02:41 PM roycroft: and the national guard are back at the capitol
02:41 PM roycroft: they just left a week ago
02:42 PM drdoc: I been thinking a lot about all that, in reference to the '60s movements
02:43 PM drdoc: excepting the extremist groups, there wasn't a lot of us & them in those days, even in the civil rights process
02:43 PM drdoc: it was "we all gotta live together"
02:43 PM roycroft: the whole "us and them" thing got started in earnest in 1994, with newt gingrich and his "contract with america"
02:44 PM drdoc: nowadays it's all divisive and adversarial
02:44 PM roycroft: i mean, sure there were some clashes before then
02:44 PM roycroft: but gingrich normalised extreme tribalism
02:44 PM drdoc: I wouldn't argue that
02:45 PM roycroft: when he took over as speaker republicans were no longer permitted to socialise with democrats
02:45 PM roycroft: they would be reprimanded if caught spending time with the enemy
02:45 PM roycroft: anyway, i think it's time for lunch
02:45 PM drdoc: ...which is exactly how things get done
02:46 PM drdoc: later!
02:46 PM roycroft: and time to turn off the news for the rest of the day
02:46 PM roycroft: i want to get some things done in peace
02:46 PM drdoc: amen
02:46 PM roycroft: ciaoder
02:56 PM drdoc: oooooh
02:57 PM drdoc: https://swicoauctions.com/online/26/item/77866
02:57 PM drdoc: that's local to me
03:45 PM drdoc: wow
03:46 PM drdoc: going from a Kingston SSD to a Samsung EVO SSD cut latency in half
03:46 PM drdoc: that's a first-gen EVO too
03:53 PM Tom_L: yeah ssd are faster
03:53 PM Tom_L: samsung
03:53 PM Tom_L: i got a Tb M2
03:53 PM Tom_L: amongst others
03:53 PM Tom_L: (screws to the MB)
03:54 PM Tom_L: haven't tried any pro series evo just 850 860 and 960
03:58 PM drdoc: I have a spare NVMe "drive" but this motherboard won't boot from it
03:59 PM drdoc: but I think 2.1 uS on the scripted latency test is Good Enough
03:59 PM buzzmarshall: the EVO ssd's are one of the best ssd's... Kingstons may be good with memory but their ssd's aren'
04:00 PM buzzmarshall: as good as alot of other brands in ssds
04:00 PM drdoc: yeah, and it's an old 60GB kingston too
04:00 PM Tom_L: i started with evo and never looked back
04:00 PM buzzmarshall: slowly ive been replacing everything i have with the EVO's
04:01 PM drdoc: that and Crucial are all I've ever paid for
04:01 PM buzzmarshall: their a little bit more pricey then some others but well worth the money
04:02 PM buzzmarshall: i replaced the drives in one of my build servers with all evo's and thought something was wrong with the 1st build i did on that server as it was so much faster
04:03 PM Tom_L: i still use dos for a couple things and compile times for that is amazing
04:03 PM buzzmarshall: even with 128g in that machine swithing to the EVO's took a 1-1/2 hour build down to just over 45minutes
04:04 PM drdoc: buzzmarshall: I have an i7 CAD systems with a Crucial SSD, and an i5 daily driver, same generation, same ram, but an EVO 1TB NVMe
04:04 PM drdoc: the i5 performs better
04:04 PM buzzmarshall: ya dos will always have some usefullness
04:04 PM Tom_L: i personally think my i5 is faster than my i7
04:05 PM drdoc: the i7 is faster running Solidworks
04:05 PM buzzmarshall: ive a couple of i5's here as well and after comparing to a couple of buds with i7's just stayed with the i5's
04:05 PM drdoc: but there, you're cache- & cycle-bound
04:05 PM Tom_L: i use cata for some things and it's pdq on the i5
04:05 PM HexaCube: Hey folks, fairly unrelated question, where could I ask if I would like to know something about contruction diy cnc machines?
04:05 PM HexaCube: *constructing
04:06 PM drdoc: here
04:06 PM Tom_L: what do you want to know?
04:06 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/
04:06 PM Tom_L: start there and don't stop looking til you saw it all
04:06 PM Tom_L: then you can build one
04:06 PM HexaCube: Alright - Basically, I could swear I remember reading about the method of using a surface plate, flat (ground?) steel profiles, and epoxy granite to make parts for machines
04:07 PM drdoc: Tom_L: you need Dave's Hacks
04:07 PM HexaCube: however I -cannot- find any ressources for that, and I was wondering if someone in here heard of that method
04:07 PM Tom_L: at least a couple here have done epoxy granite
04:08 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Column_Mill_VMC.jpg
04:08 PM Tom_L: that was the concept i went with
04:09 PM HexaCube: so something like... <granite table> <foil for separation> <steel flat> <epoxy granite> in that order
04:09 PM HexaCube: basically "copying" the flatness of the granite surface without having to do any machining
04:09 PM HexaCube: again I remember reading about that (or similar), but I never was able to find the source again
04:10 PM Tom_L: i just used what i could source at local scrap
04:53 PM roycroft: i guess jointers are too common
04:54 PM roycroft: i usually have pretty good luck when i sell stuff on cl
04:54 PM roycroft: but i've had three lookey-loos on the jointer today
04:54 PM roycroft: none of whom even bothered trying to lowball me
04:54 PM gregcnc: free money everywhere
04:55 PM roycroft: one basically wanted free jointer lessons but did not want to buy it
04:55 PM roycroft: i suppose i should have charged him my asking price for the jointer for lessons, and then i could throw in the jointer after i taught him how to use it
04:56 PM roycroft: but i'd have insurance issues if i let some random person use my equipment
04:56 PM roycroft: i wouldn't mind throwing in a little training
04:56 PM roycroft: sharing knowledge/skills is a good thing
04:57 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, just got back from the golf course... not playing but working
04:57 PM roycroft: aah
04:57 PM roycroft: good timing
04:57 PM roycroft: because i'm only here for a couple minutes
04:57 PM roycroft: i have a question for you about blasting cabinets, since you built one
04:57 PM roycroft: mine is mostly reassembled, but there's one thing i'm not sure about
04:58 PM roycroft: the recovery port is at the top of the cabinet, as well as the fresh air port
04:58 PM roycroft: the fresh air port has a channel covering it so that it actually allows the air to enter at the bottom
04:58 PM roycroft: that's fine
04:58 PM roycroft: but i wonder if it's best to do the same with the recovery port
04:59 PM JT-Shop: well air is a fluid and will follow the shortest route
04:59 PM roycroft: right
04:59 PM JT-Shop: mine is in the lower left and fresh air upper right
04:59 PM roycroft: i'm thinking that if i leave the recovery port at the top, it's going to pull the air up
04:59 PM roycroft: and the abrasive won't settle as easily
05:00 PM roycroft: but if i channel it to the bottom it will pull the abrasive down
05:00 PM roycroft: if i need to fabricate a channel, now is the time, before i put the view window back on
05:01 PM roycroft: did you just follow plans when you built yours, or did you put the recovery port on the bottom for a reason?
05:01 PM roycroft: a reason other than that the plans showed it there
05:01 PM JT-Shop: any viable abrasive will not be sucked up as it's too heavy
05:01 PM JT-Shop: only the dust will move with the air stream
05:01 PM roycroft: i've had mine this way with an external extractor for over 10 years
05:02 PM roycroft: and i think i've emptied the extractor once or maybe twice in all that time
05:02 PM JT-Shop: I worked with a powder coat guy that built a few blast cabinets and studied commercial units
05:02 PM roycroft: but since i'm doing a rebuild i thought it might be time for a rethink on that
05:03 PM roycroft: i tend to reuse abrasive for a long time, and it does get rather contaminated
05:03 PM roycroft: i just got a sifting screen for it that should clean some of that out
05:03 PM JT-Shop: I mostly blast the mill scale off of fresh steel parts so I don't worry about it
05:04 PM * roycroft is frugal - not stingy, but also not a spendthrift
05:04 PM roycroft: aah
05:04 PM roycroft: and i probably do more cleanup of painted/rusted surfaces
05:05 PM JT-Shop: yea you will have more crap in the media than I will
05:05 PM roycroft: it really hasn't been a problem in the past, other than visiblility loss when i'm in a long blasting session
05:06 PM JT-Shop: from dust on the view port?
05:06 PM roycroft: and i'm not sure that rechannelling the airflow to the extractor would do much of that
05:06 PM roycroft: dust, and abrasive in the cabinet
05:06 PM roycroft: also it has halogen lights, and one burns out all the time
05:06 PM roycroft: i'm pondering heading out to see if i can get some nice, bright led lights for it before i finish reassembling it
05:06 PM JT-Shop: I have a blow off gun inside to clean the view port, I also have a screen in front of the view port so it does not get etched
05:07 PM roycroft: i'm out of budget on the project, but i'm so close to having it really nice i'm willing to go a bit over budget
05:07 PM JT-Shop: I put LED flood lights in mine
05:07 PM roycroft: i've never had a blow gun inside the cabinet before, but i just added one today
05:07 PM roycroft: that's what i'm thinking of getting
05:07 PM roycroft: two led flood lights
05:07 PM JT-Shop: that's what I have
05:07 PM roycroft: the fixtures would be cheap
05:07 PM roycroft: the lamps cheap, cool, and easy to change
05:08 PM roycroft: if i'm honest, those halogen lamps are awful
05:08 PM roycroft: they are so damn hot
05:08 PM roycroft: but 20 years ago that was the state of the art for bright lights in a blasting cabinet
05:09 PM roycroft: they were an upgrade from the 20w fluorescent tube that came with it
05:09 PM roycroft: so ok, i think i'll pass on modifying the recovery port, and just deal with the lights
05:09 PM JT-Shop: I'll upload a photo of the inside
05:09 PM roycroft: that will save me a couple or three hours doing sheet metal fabrication anyway
05:11 PM roycroft: thanks
05:14 PM roycroft: nice, i found some 2100 lumen lamps that are 5000 degrees k
05:14 PM roycroft: msot are 3000 or so
05:14 PM roycroft: or a lot dimmer
05:14 PM roycroft: i'd like 6000k, but i can live with 5000k
05:18 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/blast-cabinet/blast-cabinet-50.jpg
05:19 PM JT-Shop: I forgot what mine are but they are very bright
05:21 PM Tom_L: what did you use to seal the door?
05:22 PM Tom_L: regular weatherstrip?
05:22 PM JT-Shop: yea
05:46 PM JT-Shop: I was about to give up on my usual Honda dealership but now they are coming around and locating the Ridgeline I want
05:48 PM Tom_L: the dealer here is decent
05:48 PM Tom_L: they go so far on extended warranty to warranty it as long as you own it
05:51 PM Tom_L: and with all the crap they put on cars today i figured it was a good idea
05:53 PM roycroft: i wish i could mount my lamps like that
05:54 PM roycroft: i have to mount the in the back, because the front is not very high
05:54 PM roycroft: i found some 3000 lumen lamps at the store, btw
05:54 PM roycroft: so $64 later (i was hoping for <$50) i have a nice, bright lighting setup
05:55 PM roycroft: now to install it
05:56 PM roycroft: i'm in a mode where i'm just doing things right, once and for all, so i don't end up revisiting these things again in the future
05:57 PM roycroft: incremental improvements can become annoying
08:12 PM Thorhian: Does anyone here know much about pumps, speciffically high pressure ones?
08:38 PM veegee: I love how idiot americans describe temperatures "below zero"
08:38 PM veegee: inherent use of Celsius lol
08:38 PM veegee: Thorhian perhaps, what did you want to know?
08:40 PM Thorhian: Thanks for calling me an idiot veegee \s Also, I'm just wondering how to make a pump that can create high pressures 300-500 PSI.
08:41 PM veegee: oh LOL that's not "high" pressure
08:41 PM Tom_L: yeah thanks
08:41 PM veegee: I thought you meant like 3,000 PSI
08:41 PM veegee: filling scuba tanks and such
08:41 PM Thorhian: I guess it's relative. I'm also talking water based coolants, not air.
08:41 PM Tom_L: and btw we got down way below 0F this year
08:41 PM veegee: any car engine can hold those pressures
08:41 PM veegee: then hydraulic cylinders
08:41 PM veegee: but not sure if corrosion will be an issue
08:42 PM veegee: but yeah, liquids are easier than air
08:42 PM veegee: there's less leakage due to the viscosity
08:42 PM veegee: your biggest problem will be corrosion, so you need an appropriate pump material
08:42 PM Tom_L: why the high pressures?
08:42 PM veegee: any cheap air compressor can do 500 PSI
08:43 PM Thorhian: I have come across the oppurtunity to get myself a BT30 ATC spindle with through spindle coolant.
08:43 PM veegee: so you're looking at either a diaphragm pump or piston pump
08:43 PM Tom_L: you still wouldn't need those high pressures
08:43 PM veegee: it has to be positive displacement type for those pressures
08:43 PM veegee: an aluminum piston pump will work just fine
08:43 PM Tom_L: i'd lean toward piston
08:44 PM Tom_L: get a pressure washer from a box store
08:44 PM veegee: gear pumps (any cheap hydraulic gear pump) will work as well, but corrosion
08:44 PM Tom_L: dial the pressure down
08:44 PM Thorhian: Tom_L: The designer told me that the TSC needs a pressure between 300 to 1000 PSI.
08:44 PM veegee: Tom_L wow can't believe I didn't think of the obvious
08:44 PM veegee: pressure washer pump is what you need
08:44 PM veegee: pressure washer pump is your answer
08:45 PM Tom_L: you may not want the pulsing though
08:46 PM veegee: Thorhian https://www.princessauto.com/en/3-gpm-2700-psi-axial-pressure-washer-pump-assembly/product/PA0008605412
08:46 PM Thorhian: I though pressure washers were usually running well beyond 1000 PSI typically. Also, I need to power it via electricity.
08:46 PM veegee: cheap too
08:46 PM veegee: Tom_L put two of them in parallel to fix the pulsing?
08:46 PM veegee: just align their phases properly
08:47 PM veegee: $180 CAD for a high pressure pump is cheap enough that you can buy two of them. And the shafts and such are all standard sizes so you can hook it up to a NEMA motor easily
08:47 PM Tom_L: i would imagine you can dial the pressure down somehow
08:47 PM veegee: Tom_L they all have an "unloader" which is a pressure adjustment valve
08:48 PM veegee: like a hydraulic pressure relief valve
08:48 PM Tom_L: https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-1900-PSI-1-2-GPM-Cold-Water-Wheeled-Electric-Pressure-Washer-RY1419MTVNM/311223300
08:48 PM veegee: so yes they're all adjustable
08:55 PM Thorhian: I also need 6 liters per minute, so 3GPM would be fine theoretically.
08:55 PM veegee: that little knob on the pump is how you adjust the pressure
08:55 PM veegee: yeah that's your solution right there
08:55 PM Thorhian: Also, is there an equivalent to a capacitor for a water circuit to smooth out the pulsing?
08:55 PM veegee: yes
08:55 PM veegee: several
08:55 PM Tom_L: yeah but i dunno if you can get them that high a pressure
08:55 PM veegee: hydraulic accumulators,
08:55 PM veegee: yes you can, hydraulic accumulators go as high as you want, like 3,000 PSI
08:55 PM veegee: but don't go that route, just put two pumps in parallel
08:55 PM veegee: They're piston pumps, so if you align the position of the pistons properly, you can get perfectly smooth output
08:55 PM Thorhian: That would mean using two motors as well though. I'm guessing you would put them in parallel?
08:57 PM roycroft: well deionized water is usually fine
08:57 PM veegee: Thorhian without corrosion inhibitors, you'll still get galvanic corrosion
08:57 PM Tom_L: i use rustlick coolant
08:57 PM veegee: if you have different metals
08:57 PM roycroft: that are in direct contacdt
08:57 PM roycroft: contact
08:57 PM veegee: deionized water doesn't stay deionized forever
08:57 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Rustlick1.jpg
08:57 PM veegee: in a closed loop, metal will come off and circulate
08:58 PM roycroft: if you're using deionized water, if the metals are not in direct contact you will not get galvanic corrosion
08:58 PM roycroft: and yes, your water needs to be changed upon occasion
08:58 PM veegee: the water will become ionized
08:58 PM roycroft: because it won't remain what it once was
08:58 PM veegee: yeah and then you _will_ get galvanic corrosion
08:58 PM Thorhian: veegee is correct about that, hence why I used corrosion inhibitors and occasionally changed it.
08:59 PM Thorhian: roycroft: How can I tell if a given coolant additive is safe to use in my coolant loop?
08:59 PM roycroft: and the pH of the water will affect the rate of galvanic reactions
08:59 PM veegee: so yeah corrosion inhibitors in your coolant will work just fine
08:59 PM roycroft: ask the manufacturer
08:59 PM roycroft: and test
08:59 PM Tom_L: read the data sheets
09:00 PM roycroft: ask questions, trust the answers, but verify them
09:00 PM veegee: didn't one of your famous dictators say that? "trust but verify"? I forgot who
09:00 PM Thorhian: *rolls eyes
09:00 PM roycroft: yes, and it's about the only thing he ever said with which i agree
09:01 PM roycroft: it was the actor who had lower primates as his co-stars
09:01 PM Thorhian: I think veegee just hates Americans, or doesn't but just likes trolling them.
09:02 PM Tom_L: seems to take advise from them though
09:02 PM roycroft: veegee gets massive orgasms from his trolling
09:02 PM roycroft: it's a particularly offensive character trait, but i am trying to look past it
09:03 PM roycroft: i seek the good in people
09:03 PM roycroft: i don't always find it, but i try
09:03 PM Tom_L: walk a mile
09:04 PM Tom_L: then form an opinion
09:04 PM roycroft: i would walk 500 miles
09:04 PM roycroft: and i would walk 500 more
09:04 PM Tom_L: naw that's too much work
09:04 PM roycroft: just to be the man who walked 1000 miles to avoid a major troll
09:04 PM Thorhian: XD
09:04 PM * Tom_L puts roycroft in the forest gump category
09:05 PM roycroft: i do like shrimp
09:05 PM roycroft: and chocolate
09:05 PM Tom_L: they vandalized that bench but i was down there a few weeks ago
09:06 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: Hopefully not in hte same dish.
09:06 PM roycroft: no
09:06 PM roycroft: i don't think they would pair well
09:06 PM roycroft: i've never made anything containing both, and i'm fairly experimental
09:07 PM roycroft: it just seems like they are things that should not be enjoyed together
09:07 PM veegee: LOL I don't hate them, I'm just messing with you guys
09:07 PM Bleepshop: I don't either but dark chocolate covered Ruffles potatoe chips was surprizingly good.
09:07 PM Tom_L: https://www.cookingchanneltv.com/recipes/david-rocco/gamberi-al-cioccolato-shrimp-with-chocolate-1960606
09:07 PM Tom_L: roycroft, give it a go :)
09:07 PM roycroft: when i was dating a girl from north dakota i had chocolate covered potato chips several times
09:07 PM roycroft: that is a thing there
09:08 PM roycroft: they do taste pretty good
09:08 PM Thorhian: Hey roycroft, you got any opinions on a 300-500 psi coolant for a through spindle coolant system?
09:08 PM roycroft: but i have always enjoyed a bit of salt on dark chocolate
09:08 PM roycroft: i do not, thorian
09:08 PM roycroft: and i shall not fabricate one for you, as that would certainly be misleading and a disservice
09:08 PM Thorhian: Lol okay, sounds good.
09:09 PM roycroft: i'll just remain devoid of opinion on the topic
09:09 PM Bleepshop: Thorhian: Wont that float your tool and screw your compensation ?
09:09 PM roycroft: i think it's time to make pizza
09:09 PM Thorhian: Bleepshop: I don't know what that means.
09:11 PM Tom_L: Bleepshop, i doubt it. tooling is made for thru hole coolant
09:11 PM Bleepshop: If you're pumping coolant through the tool at that pressure it will get under the cutting face and if you use too much flow at those pressures it's more than likely going to make the tool hydroplane.
09:12 PM Tom_L: Thorhian, i think he's worried about cutter length comp
09:13 PM Bleepshop: Length comp and induced tool chatter due to the pump on the coolant causing the feed lines to act like a synthetic mucle.
09:13 PM Bleepshop: muscle
09:13 PM Thorhian: Ah, I see. Based on the reading I've done, these are typical pressures and flows on proffensional CNC Milling machines,
09:14 PM Tom_L: i would imagine tooling that is made for thru hole coolant has been designed with those factors in mind
09:14 PM * Bleepshop has had issue with high pressure hydraulics acting more like tendons and sinews than tinkertoys.
09:15 PM Tom_L: it is something to consider though
09:15 PM Thorhian: The low end TSC systems on Haas mills are 300 PSI, and then they offer 1000 PSI as the higher end option as well.
09:16 PM Tom_L: get a haas replacement pump
09:16 PM Tom_L: and go from there
09:16 PM Thorhian: Lol, that would be crazy expensive unless I could find a used one most likely.
09:17 PM Tom_L: or look at one
09:17 PM veegee: Just adjust your pressures accordingly
09:17 PM veegee: It's a non-issue
09:17 PM veegee: They all come with a pressure adjustment valve with a very wide pressure range
09:18 PM Bleepshop: I'm not as worried about the tool floating as much as about a pressure line torquing the gantry or head. But, I've also been dealing with hobby level stuff for too many years after getting a 4.2 GPA in CNC machine operations in 1986.
09:18 PM Tom_L: https://www.haascnc.com/productivity/chip-and-coolant-management/cpk-mm.html
09:18 PM Tom_L: :)
09:18 PM Tom_L: that's only 10 psi though
09:19 PM veegee: Bleepshop there's no way in hell a hydraulic hose will put enough force on the head of a _milling machine_ to make any measurable difference
09:19 PM Bleepshop: That was what I was noticing. " 1/4 hp (186 W) pump that delivers 6 gpm @ 10 psi "
09:19 PM veegee: Like even under full pressure, can't possibly be of any significance to the machine
09:20 PM Bleepshop: veegee: Try it with an MPCNC and let me know f it and you survive. ;D
09:20 PM Tom_L: https://www.haascnc.com/productivity/chip-and-coolant-management/tsc.html
09:20 PM veegee: LOL Bleepshop cmon I'm being serious
09:20 PM veegee: I'm talking about something like a 2,000 lb vertical mill
09:21 PM veegee: a hydraulic hose alone probably weighs more than that mpcnc thing
09:21 PM Tom_L: 7k ouch
09:21 PM Bleepshop: veegee: So am I. I've heard of people going apeshit with tiny machines. https://docs.v1engineering.com/mpcnc/intro/
09:21 PM veegee: Not really my thing. They're good for milling PCBs though
09:23 PM Bleepshop: veegee: They're running trochoidial milling routines and cutting aluminum and steel with a machine that's 1/2 plastic.
09:24 PM veegee: Yeah I'm sure it can be done, but I'd never bother with those when I have a solid cast iron machine
09:24 PM Bleepshop: Which is pretty freaking awesome if you think about it.
09:24 PM veegee: Well at very high spindle speeds, you don't need much rigidity at all
09:24 PM veegee: all you need is an insanely fast spindle and a carbide cutter
09:24 PM XXCoder: that machine is fine for wood
09:25 PM Thorhian: I have an MPCNC, It's what pushed me to make a better machine. Too limited for metal stuff.
09:25 PM veegee: I have a chinese 6040 CNC router and that does well with anything if you set your spindle speeds and feed rate properly
09:26 PM Bleepshop: Thorhian: You should have used it to mill a set of metal bits to make it stiffer. ;D
09:26 PM veegee: but now that I have a 5,400 lb universal mill and a 2,000 lb bridgeport clone, nothing is an issue
09:27 PM Thorhian: My 500 pound (and will weigh more later) steel vertical mill to me is a better option.
09:27 PM Thorhian: My column needs to be filled with epoxy grainte :)
09:28 PM Thorhian: granite*
09:28 PM roycroft: fill it with gold instead - much higher density
09:28 PM Tom_L: ppl advised me that way but mine seems fine as it its
09:28 PM roycroft: and when your house is burgled, they won't bother stealing your mill
09:29 PM Bleepshop: Think big... Neutronium. ;D
09:29 PM roycroft: so it's a good hiding place
09:29 PM JavaBean: isn't epoxy granite about the same as alu/
09:29 PM Thorhian: In density yes. Vibration dampening, far better.
09:30 PM Bleepshop: Yeah, It has to do with the difference between a homogenous and a non-homogenous mass IIRC.
09:33 PM veegee: that's the second time roycroft suggested filling something with gold
09:33 PM roycroft: cast iron supremecy vs. embracing multi-materialism?
09:33 PM roycroft: i like gold
09:33 PM veegee: first time was for my forklift
09:33 PM roycroft: what can i say?
09:33 PM roycroft: it's pretty and it has some wonder physical properties
09:33 PM Thorhian: Lol Cast iron. I can't make something big with that in my garage. I can work with aggregate and epoxy though.
09:33 PM veegee: True. If you have it, better make use of it instead of storing it in a vault
09:33 PM roycroft: including being almost inert, so immune to galvanic corrosion
09:34 PM Thorhian: Does gold even dampen vibrations much? Also, It's not exactly a rigid material either.
09:34 PM JavaBean: and one of the few things denser than roy's head
09:34 PM roycroft: so you're a multi-materialist
09:35 PM roycroft: perhaps my head is so dense because there are so many neurons tryhing to squeeze inside it :P
09:35 PM veegee: roycroft actually water is denser than cell material
09:36 PM veegee: so if anything, there's more water and fewer neurons :P
09:36 PM roycroft: and yeah, i know - it's not about how many neurons you have, it's how you use them
09:37 PM * JavaBean admits that roy has done interesting things with the few neurons he has
09:45 PM Thorhian: Different materials have different "vibration friction". Yes, more mass helps, but that's not the only factor I'm pretty sure.
09:45 PM Tom_L: do they ever lead machines in anymore? back when i worked on the multi spindle lathes they were leaded in place
09:46 PM Tom_L: i haven't seen it done since i left that job
09:46 PM JavaBean: i think they stopped after they realized that lead isn't such a good thing to eat/breathe/drink
09:47 PM veegee: it's pretty hard to breathe in solid lead
09:47 PM veegee: you have to be an idiot to get it into your body
09:48 PM veegee: obviously not talking about tetraethyllead and such
09:48 PM JavaBean: its the fumes it generates when molten, IIRC
09:48 PM veegee: there are no fumes
09:49 PM Thorhian: That sounds like the myth people parrot about the fumes with soldering. They think it's the lead that is dangerous, but it's the flux lol
09:49 PM JavaBean: https://pksafety.com/blog/fishermen-making-lead-sinkers-need-respirators && https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/lead-poisoning/symptoms-causes/syc-20354717
09:50 PM Tom_L: i just wondered if it was still used for dampening and i doubt it is
09:50 PM JavaBean: https://www.dph.illinois.gov/sites/default/files/publications/lead-safety-fishermen-041516.pdf
09:51 PM Tom_L: but then veegee thinks crack is ok
09:51 PM Thorhian: XD
09:51 PM JavaBean: yeah, pretty sure they stopped when they realized lead isn't healthy for you... not surprised to hear veegee say that
09:51 PM veegee: Tom_L it's ok if you know what it is and how to use it
09:51 PM veegee: lead has a boiling point of 1749ºC
09:51 PM veegee: and when soldering, yes it's the flux that's boiling, not the tin/lead lol
09:52 PM veegee: if you're boiling tin/lead with your soldering iron, you have other problems
09:52 PM veegee: But yes, everything releases vapours
09:53 PM veegee: it depends on the temperature and pressure and such; consult the phase diagram
09:54 PM veegee: but you also have to consider what's going on with the flux and impurities in the lead when casting it
09:54 PM JavaBean: not saying you are wrong, veegee. just to remind you though, they figured out how to be "safe" long after figureing out that lead "isn't safe"
09:54 PM veegee: those things fume at much lower temperatures and can carry lead into the air with them
09:55 PM veegee: again, just comes down to "don't be an idiot"
09:55 PM JavaBean: so... don't let roy play with the lead?
09:57 PM veegee: This is why chemistry and physics should be mandatory in schools
09:58 PM veegee: the fact that it's optional baffles me
09:58 PM JavaBean: because if it was "mandatory" then companies wouldn't be able to sell some of the junk that they paw off on people?
09:58 PM veegee: I formally studied organic chemistry and human biology (immunology, virology, human genetics) so I know what research has to be done
09:59 PM veegee: in order to "not be an idiot" that is
09:59 PM veegee: JavaBean if it were mandatory, religion wouldn't exist anymore
10:00 PM Thorhian: You seem so sure about that.
10:01 PM JavaBean: it would still exist... you should hear/see what kinds of "chemistry" and "physics" they teach in catholic schools...
10:01 PM veegee: Going back to the lead, it has a vapour pressure of 1 pascal at temperatures far above its melting point
10:01 PM veegee: so... no there are no "fumes" that are of any danger whatsoever
10:02 PM roycroft: sadly, while traditional religion is finally waning, politics is becoming the new religion
10:02 PM * JavaBean points back up to the .gov link above... reminds veegee that that is what the gov claims
10:02 PM veegee: it's the impurities and what's happening physically in your solution that you have to be careful of because those things can bubble up and bring particles into the air
10:03 PM roycroft: there seems to be need to embrace thoughtless dogma amongst the populace
10:03 PM veegee: JavaBean "Never put a lead sinker in your mouth" when the paper tells you things like that...
10:03 PM veegee: you have to understand it's targeting retards
10:03 PM veegee: if you have to be told not to put lead in your mouth, you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near anything dangerous
10:03 PM roycroft: lead tastes sweet, i'm told
10:04 PM JavaBean: that wasn't "lead" per se, that was lead PAINT
10:04 PM JavaBean: and yes, i have heard that one too, roy
10:04 PM Thorhian: Aren't there forms of suger that have lead componants?
10:13 PM Thorhian: Also, I sometimes wonder if I am the only religious person here lol. I already veegee and capt dislike my beliefs though lol
10:13 PM XXCoder: veegee I think critical thinking classes should be required also
10:13 PM JavaBean: that would destroy the "2 party system" in the us, XXCoder... so, not going to happen
10:13 PM XXCoder: too bad
10:18 PM roycroft: some folks are incapable of acquiring critical thinking
10:19 PM unterhaus: I had this antique casting kit for making tin soldiers, which I used with lead
10:19 PM unterhaus: that's why I'm incapable of critical thinking and have anger issues
10:19 PM Tom_L: did you chew on the soldiers?
10:19 PM roycroft: most who don't have them though, i suspect, are able but unwilling, or have not had an opportunity to learn them
10:19 PM XXCoder: or intale vapors?
10:20 PM roycroft: or maybe your momma dropped you on your head when you were a baby :)
10:21 PM unterhaus: I think casting lead is probably the most efficient method of ingesting it. No PPE, I can assure you
10:21 PM Tom_L: i for the life of me don't remember where i got it but as a young kid i had a small bottle of mercury i used to play with
10:22 PM unterhaus: apropos of nothing, two of my uncles died as infants, one of whom was dropped on his head
10:22 PM unterhaus: other one was run over by a tractor driven by my grandfather
10:23 PM unterhaus: Tom_L I remember it was a lot easier to get ahold of mercury BITD. And I don't think it was all from broken thermometers
10:23 PM Tom_L: yeah i tend to agree with that
10:24 PM Tom_L: i still have no clue where i got it as a kid
10:24 PM XXCoder: one of my life goals is get my hands in large vat of mecury. i have long amended it with having gloves and protection
10:24 PM XXCoder: but I do want to have feel of gettings hands in mecury
10:24 PM veegee: Safer with indium gallium alloy
10:24 PM veegee: buy it on ebay
10:25 PM unterhaus: I vaguely remember broken thermometers as being amusing
10:25 PM veegee: I use it as a thermal interface layer for my CPUs instead of thermal paste because of much higher thermal conductivity
10:25 PM XXCoder: i suppose, but i dont want to have vat of liquid metal just sitting around
10:28 PM unterhaus: someone broke a big manometer in the weather building and the number of people in bunny suits that responded was pretty impressive
10:29 PM unterhaus: used to happen occasionally in the mechanical engineering building too, until health and safety told everybody they had to get rid of them. Or the last one broke
10:30 PM XXCoder: why do they break so often?
10:30 PM Tom_L: carelessness
10:30 PM roycroft: because the people who break them are not held accountable for doing so
10:32 PM XXCoder: whats that thing where you melt plastic and sink metal bolt holes in
10:32 PM XXCoder: called
10:32 PM XXCoder: i need some lol
10:33 PM Tom_L: the inserts?
10:33 PM roycroft: messy
10:34 PM Tom_L: you were looking for something similar recently weren't you?
10:34 PM XXCoder: inserts not quite right search term
10:34 PM roycroft: i was, but i did a design change
10:34 PM XXCoder: aha heat set threaded insert
10:34 PM Tom_L: https://www.ezlok.com/threaded-inserts-for-plastic
10:35 PM Tom_L: https://www.mcmaster.com/inserts-for-plastics/
10:37 PM XXCoder: whats good metric size for smaller parts
10:37 PM XXCoder: m3? m4?
10:37 PM JavaBean: depends on how small.
10:37 PM Tom_L: depends what you are doing
10:37 PM Tom_L: m3
10:37 PM roycroft: m2.5-m5
10:37 PM XXCoder: its for bunch of different very light stress parts
10:38 PM Tom_L: pc screws are m2.5 or m3 aren't they?
10:38 PM JavaBean: m2.5?? that is a real thing? i thought it was "invented" by the rapberry pi people
10:38 PM JavaBean: pc screws are m3
10:38 PM Tom_L: no i just made it up
10:38 PM roycroft: m2.5 is pretty common
10:39 PM XXCoder: 13 usd for 50 m3 inserts
10:39 PM roycroft: pc screws are usually 6-32 or 8-32
10:39 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, try ali
10:39 PM XXCoder: 100 years shipping
10:39 PM Tom_L: price or time, pick one
10:39 PM XXCoder: 50 for 13 is from shipping from usa.
10:39 PM XXCoder: yeah
10:39 PM JavaBean: i have a bunch of m3 pc screws, roy... came with the case
10:40 PM XXCoder: more and more aliexpress stocks in usa too
10:40 PM roycroft: the best size for what you're doing is the size that fits the inserts you find
10:40 PM Tom_L: but your order was on that container ship that dumped a bunch of containers recently
10:40 PM Tom_L: yeah, size matters... ask any woman
10:41 PM XXCoder: "ship from usa $13" from china "$1"
10:42 PM XXCoder: yeah thats why im been buying from aliexpress less and less
10:42 PM Tom_L: we'll keep you occupied while you wait for your china order
10:43 PM XXCoder: 307 usd for 50x(100x m3 inserts)
10:43 PM XXCoder: lol
10:44 PM JavaBean: just make sure not to click on links he posts, tom... he is the last person that i know of that linked goatse as a trollpost
10:44 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-50-M3-3mm-M3-0-5-Brass-Threaded-Metal-Heat-Set-Screw-Inserts-for-3D-Printing/292174792941?epid=17012193252&hash=item4406f988ed:g:HL8AAOSw0A9aRQZl
10:44 PM Tom_L: georgia
10:44 PM XXCoder: java so far i know, i never linked to goatse.
10:45 PM roycroft: but tom_l just linked to georgie
10:45 PM roycroft: the goatse of states
10:45 PM roycroft: georgia
10:46 PM * JavaBean chuckles at poor roy, the person who trolled himself
10:47 PM roycroft: i am poor, but not pitiful
10:47 PM roycroft: so you can save it :P
10:47 PM * JavaBean grumbles, decides to grab a screwdriver... glad he bought OJ today
10:48 PM XXCoder: one entry for m3 bolts: "black alloy" lol doesnt even say if its metal alloy
10:48 PM roycroft: buy a set of 3d printer screws on amazon
10:49 PM Tom_L: or use self threading screws and print a boss on your part to screw them into
10:49 PM roycroft: you'll get a half dozen lengths of m3, m5, and m5 screws for about $12
10:49 PM Tom_L: that's what most mfg'd products do
10:50 PM * JavaBean grumbles, added too much everclear for taste... waves 'night' to everyone as he doesn't drink and irc
10:50 PM XXCoder: https://www.ebay.com/itm/300-Pieces-M3-Button-Head-Hex-Socket-10-9-Grade-Screw-BoltNut-Assortment-Kit-USA/313407177792 ?
10:51 PM roycroft: i'm enjoying a nice glass of mead
10:51 PM Tom_L: genuine chinese pot metal
10:51 PM roycroft: i don't mind drinking and irc'ing, because i don't drink heavily
10:51 PM XXCoder: tom indeed
10:52 PM XXCoder: https://www.ebay.com/itm/340-pcs-M3-Stainless-Steel-SS304-Hex-Socket-Cap-Head-Screws-Bolts-Nut-Tools-Kit/363332705919
10:52 PM Tom_L: i quit 20+ years ago
10:52 PM XXCoder: i never drank alchol
10:52 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/DYWISHKEY-Stainless-Washers-Assortment-Wrenches/dp/B08QCGTTMJ
10:52 PM roycroft: that will get you by, xxcoder, for a lot of things
10:53 PM roycroft: i am a homebrewer, so if i did not drink at all that would be a bit odd
10:54 PM roycroft: that said, i have not brewed since the pandemic started, because when i do brew i make more than i can reasonably consume by myself, and i've not been able to share with friends for over a year
10:56 PM XXCoder: aging drinks
10:56 PM XXCoder: allight bolts and heat sinks ordered
10:57 PM XXCoder: gonna make counterweight for a hose so it returns