#linuxcnc Logs

Mar 17 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:06 AM rue_mohr: hey, here is a group of people who might have a wide set of experience with parallel ports
12:13 AM rue_mohr: https://twitter.com/RueNahcMohr/status/1372042338046865411
12:13 AM rue_mohr: see the dud pulse?
12:13 AM rue_mohr: ideas?
12:13 AM rue_mohr: its persisting to not be digital
12:13 AM CaptHindsight: This is not available to you
12:14 AM XXCoder: try randomly moving wire as its being measured
12:14 AM rue_mohr: THAT is just attached to the scope, grounded to it, with a 1k pullup and a 1k pulldown to 5V
12:14 AM rue_mohr: its fine 99% of the time tho
12:14 AM rue_mohr: its hard to catch those on my scope
12:15 AM rue_mohr: this is the strobe pin
12:15 AM rue_mohr: I did try shaking the cables
12:15 AM rue_mohr: no diff
12:15 AM CaptHindsight: LPT card or motherboard LPT port?
12:15 AM XXCoder: hm
12:15 AM rue_mohr: if it were an open, the line should snap to 2.5V
12:15 AM rue_mohr: 1k up to 5V, 1k down
12:15 AM rue_mohr: its an old laptop
12:16 AM rue_mohr: "motherboard" :)
12:17 AM rue_mohr: I think the parallel port chip is foozed
12:17 AM rue_mohr: I dont know what kinda foozed or how, but I can't think of another explination
12:17 AM CaptHindsight: yes, I'd say use an LPT card
12:17 AM CaptHindsight: leaky CMOS
12:17 AM rue_mohr: I wrote a qbaic program to toggle that pin, and could not catch is happening
12:18 AM rue_mohr: ok, tommorow I'll set up another machine and give it a go
12:18 AM CaptHindsight: monitor the power pins on the MB chip
12:18 AM rue_mohr: hah, you assume I have access to it
12:18 AM CaptHindsight: LPT is likely on a superIO device
12:18 AM CaptHindsight: yeah well
12:19 AM CaptHindsight: what else can you do to test?
12:19 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1180908.jpg
12:19 AM CaptHindsight: if the power has a glitch at the same time as the port then that would tell you something
12:19 AM rue_mohr: not much, the machine is disposable tho
12:20 AM CaptHindsight: dude it's a Dell
12:20 AM rue_mohr: heh
12:20 AM rue_mohr: I said it was disposable
12:21 AM rue_mohr: I have a large pile
12:21 AM XXCoder: dude its a dell guy is in jail
12:21 AM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Curtis_(actor)
12:21 AM rue_mohr: unfortunatly, finding a laptop with a parallel port is prooving a challange
12:22 AM CaptHindsight: yeah best luck might be an LPT card off of mPCI
12:23 AM rue_mohr: this was the last working machine with a parallel port, but I ahve a large pile of PCs
12:23 AM rue_mohr: last working laptop
12:23 AM CaptHindsight: laptop usually have real time issues due to power management
12:24 AM rue_mohr: hah you can say that again
12:24 AM CaptHindsight: some are OK if used with ethernet Mesa FPGA
12:24 AM rue_mohr: the qbasic program to toggle the strobe pin, did 3 loops with a 2us toggle time, then the system pulled it away for 30us
12:24 AM CaptHindsight: the EC (embedded controller) operates out of band
12:25 AM CaptHindsight: it handles things like lid open/closed, battery charging, GPIO led's etc
12:25 AM rue_mohr: dos 6.222
12:25 AM CaptHindsight: so it puts the CPU on hold while it does things you can't see in the OS
12:26 AM CaptHindsight: laptops and server boards have them
12:27 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.coreboot.org/Embedded_controller
12:28 AM rue_mohr: haha mcs51!
12:28 AM rue_mohr: thats awesome
12:29 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.coreboot.org/images/5/50/An_Open_Source_EC.pdf
12:37 AM rue_mohr: next computer, its ok
12:38 AM rue_mohr: because its being so low-impedence about its non-digital state
12:38 AM rue_mohr: I think its a firmware bug in the controller, and that its behind a buffer chip
12:38 AM rue_mohr: so, internally, I think the signal is floating
12:39 AM rue_mohr: I'll just use another machine
12:49 AM CaptHindsight: how old is the laptop?
12:50 AM CaptHindsight: laptop vendors are cheap, i doubt that there is a buffer for the LPT port
12:51 AM CaptHindsight: all those motherboard devices are meant to use the least amount of external parts
12:51 AM CaptHindsight: every corner that they could cut was cut
02:26 AM Deejay: moin
02:33 AM NoGodDamnIdea: morning guys
04:56 AM mrec: is there any way to save the current state in linuxcnc (eg, axis homed) and just restart linuxcnc to continue the current work?
04:56 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:56 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:55 AM CaptHindsight: mrec: https://www.forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/30003-stop-and-restart-program
06:55 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/35185-e-stop-pressed-how-to-restart-at-line-25010
07:50 AM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/images/garden/germination/
08:18 AM mrec: CaptHindsight: I think it's not that easy.. because the machine is suddenly not homed anymore no?
08:20 AM mrec: does anyone do manual tool changes with linuxcnc? question would be are you using a torque wrench for that?
08:21 AM mrec: another question, freecad has just implemented g43 after m6, wouldn't this cancel out g43.1 settings?
08:31 AM gregcnc: If you want to restart programs after a reboot, you need a machine that homes
08:32 AM mrec: gregcnc: for debugging purpose and development purpose it would be nice to just reload the previous state including homed positions
08:33 AM gregcnc: you have to sync the control to the mechanical machine otherwise bad things can happen
08:33 AM gregcnc: homing is a few seconds
08:34 AM mrec: my homing is not 100% accurate
08:34 AM gregcnc: it should be
08:34 AM gregcnc: if you need that functionality
08:34 AM gregcnc: you can assume the machine didn't move, but things happen
08:35 AM gregcnc: torquing collet nuts? I don't, yet...
08:36 AM mrec: well I'm just using a cheap hal effect sensor as endstop
08:36 AM mrec: there's some tolerance if I re-home
08:36 AM gregcnc: sure, if that's acceptable. If not you need to improve that
08:37 AM gregcnc: I have servos with encoders and home to index. Never a problem.
08:37 AM mrec: I tried to mill some circle with an endmill which I thought would be good enough but it broke.
08:37 AM mrec: and I need to fix the tool setter (after adding the probe screen v2) .. and now I would have to restart
08:38 AM mrec: well guess I just have to waste some brass for it.
08:38 AM gregcnc: machine design and cost tradeoffs for functionality are a real thing
08:38 AM mrec: gregcnc: but did I forget something or isn't reloading the machine home enough?
08:38 AM gregcnc: no
08:38 AM gregcnc: as i said you have to sync the control to the physical machine
08:39 AM mrec: I think about adding it to the linuxcnc code if it's not supported.
08:39 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:39 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:39 AM gregcnc: it's not about code this exists in all machines
08:39 AM mrec: can you give me some more accurate example, what do you mean with control?
08:39 AM gregcnc: good machines use absolute encoders and wake up and have accurate position
08:40 AM mrec: I converted a cheap manual mill (that's my machine)
08:40 AM gregcnc: close your eyes and pick up a ruler. What number are you holding it at?
08:40 AM mrec: I'm running it openloop (but the servos have their own loop)
08:41 AM mrec: ah well of course machine home and current absolute position ... I think the saving part is already in linuxcnc
08:41 AM gregcnc: you don't get it
08:42 AM mrec: I think around my machine, maybe you think about some more complex machine?
08:42 AM mrec: or I really don't get it..
08:43 AM gregcnc: tell me about the scale you picked up
08:43 AM mrec: there's no scale, I'm counting directly from the homing switches
08:44 AM mrec: it's an openloop system, but as mentioned the bldc servos have an internal loop
08:44 AM gregcnc: i said. close your eyes and pick up a scale. then tell me which number your finger is at
08:44 AM gregcnc: this is the state a cnc control wakes up in
08:45 AM mrec: of course but the machine head is still at the position before the last shutdown.
08:45 AM gregcnc: maybe
08:45 AM gregcnc: maybe not
08:46 AM sensille: mrec: you would have to move the stepper at least to a full step position
08:46 AM gregcnc: Linuxcnc will resume at that position, but if you have homing setup it will not run until homed
08:46 AM mrec: no it is, as mentioned it's for debugging and development purpose (not for practical longterm use)
08:46 AM gregcnc: this is importnat
08:47 AM gregcnc: why is homing a problem?
08:47 AM mrec: inaccuracy of the homing switch, I'd need to upgrade the hardware for that.
08:47 AM sensille: also, by knowing the stepper phase it might be possible to improve homing accuracy
08:47 AM mrec: please note it's really only for development and debugging
08:48 AM gregcnc: why does accuracy even matter?
08:48 AM mrec: because I might interrupt some cuts, and if I want to continue there might be some offset
08:49 AM mrec: sensille: that should not matter the motors should not be touched when restarting linuxcnc
08:50 AM gregcnc: I was so stupid my first machine had servos with index and home to index. I never had any of these problems.
08:50 AM sensille: you mean the stepper drivers are keeping power? and you are sure they don't get a stray step pulse when linuxcnc initializes?
08:51 AM gregcnc: trading accurate homing for assuming things go the way you think they should
08:52 AM mrec: hey keep in mind it's for development and debugging purpose, not for long term practical use
08:52 AM mrec: sensille: I would think so
08:53 AM mrec: I think I'll upgrade the machine in the future, but first I'd like to get some more experience with everything.
08:53 AM gregcnc: debugging what?
08:53 AM mrec: there are some oddities with the handwheel, sometimes linuxcnc is just stuck and I don't know what's going on.
08:54 AM mrec: especially when a stop is triggered things can become weird sometimes
08:55 AM gregcnc: are you at the limits of the latency?
08:55 AM mrec: it only happens when the stop is triggered as mentioned, there's no problem during cutting
08:56 AM gregcnc: stop?
08:56 AM mrec: and sometimes I have to press stop/start a few times it seems with the handwheel
08:56 AM mrec: handwheel/remote
08:57 AM gregcnc: pause?
08:57 AM mrec: https://aliexpress.com/item/32647606336.html
08:58 AM mrec: I'm not using pause so much
08:59 AM gregcnc: you stop a program and what happens?
09:00 AM mrec: it stops .. but I cannot start it
09:00 AM mrec: anymore
09:01 AM mrec: and that only happens sometimes
09:01 AM gregcnc: and you don't use pause why?
09:01 AM mrec: but I think linuxcnc is just doing something, half of the UI is freezing too sometimes
09:01 AM mrec: it recovers after some time it seems.
09:02 AM mrec: anyway let's not dig into why or what. The why is for development/debugging as mentioned.
09:02 AM gregcnc: if that's the problem i would work on solving that not getting the machine to run in an unknown homed state
09:02 AM gregcnc: i wouldn't be trying to cut anything if the machine is unreliable
09:07 AM gregcnc: have you read anything about the pendant on the forum?
09:15 AM mrec: I can still optically roughly check if things are ok when stopping/starting linuxcnc
09:15 AM mrec: even by jogging to various places
09:15 AM mrec: there are just some usecases where it makes sensee
09:21 AM gregcnc: it makes sense if you don't have to reboot and have to home the machine
09:21 AM mrec: I only mean restarting linuxcnc
09:21 AM mrec: not rebooting the machine
09:25 AM gregcnc: same thing
09:26 AM gregcnc: you might look here https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/35913-xhc-whb04b-6-linuxcnc-not-working?start=120#173531
09:27 AM htasta: mrec I thought in a similar way when I first started. but it's not really how you should operate the machine. the use case is basically "I want to do something wonkey why can't I do it by default in linuxcnc"
09:28 AM gregcnc: potentially this is the solution https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/35913-xhc-whb04b-6-linuxcnc-not-working?start=130#184191
09:28 AM htasta: so you could "disconnect" the homing switches and just jog back to the home position and tell linuxcnc it's homed and the continue with your program, but yeah it's wonky shit you shouldn't do
09:32 AM mrec: as mentioned it's for development/debugging.
09:36 AM htasta: yeah, just comment out the homing sequence/velocity lines in the ini so you can do manual homing and you can go back to home position manually and tell linuxcnc you're homed and then you go again.
09:37 AM mrec: thanks, I wonder why I didn't think about that myself before...
09:37 AM mrec: it will do for now thanks!
09:53 AM NoGodDamnIdea: hey guys
09:53 AM NoGodDamnIdea: i cant figure out grbl
09:53 AM roycroft: i just ordered my new jointer
09:53 AM roycroft: so yay
09:53 AM JT-Cave: which one?
09:54 AM NoGodDamnIdea: the cnc wont move when I power it on, the motors make noise but no matter what I do i cant get it to move
09:54 AM roycroft: the one i linked to yesterday
09:54 AM JT-Cave: I missed the link
09:55 AM roycroft: https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-8-x-76-jointer-with-parallelogram-beds-and-spiral-cutterhead/g0490x
09:55 AM NoGodDamnIdea: anyone here that has experience with grbl care to help a bit?
09:56 AM JT-Cave: nice, 8" jointer makes it much easier with wider boards
09:56 AM roycroft: yes, my first jointer was 8"
09:56 AM roycroft: when i moved to eugene i sold it, and got a 6"
09:56 AM roycroft: i've been wanting to go back to an 8" ever since
09:56 AM roycroft: i've had that jointer in my cart for days, just waiting for a credit card to cycle
09:57 AM roycroft: yesterday was the statement closing date, and last night grizzly kindly sent me a 5% off coupon
09:57 AM roycroft: probably because it had been in my cart for a while
09:57 AM roycroft: so today was the day
09:58 AM roycroft: deliver could be interesting
09:58 AM roycroft: delivery
09:58 AM roycroft: i live on a dead-end street, so a truck with a full-size trailer cannot deliver
09:58 AM JT-Cave: yeah it's always fun to get heavy equipment
09:58 AM roycroft: if the freight company do not have a smaller truck i'll have to go pick it up at the depot myself
09:58 AM roycroft: and it comes in 2 crates
09:59 AM roycroft: i'm not sure i can load both in the same load, so i may have to make two trips
09:59 AM roycroft: and that could be fun, dealing with the paperwork involved
09:59 AM roycroft: i ordered lift gate service, which grizzly will refund if i end up picking it up at the depot
10:00 AM roycroft: they only charge $34 for that, btw
10:00 AM roycroft: most companies charge $75 for lift gate service
10:02 AM roycroft: i think i'll hold off on selling my old jointer until the new one arrives and is set up, although that's going to make my shop crowded again
10:05 AM roycroft: i'd still rather get a helical head than a spiral head, but i'd either have to spend another $500 or wait until next year for that
10:06 AM roycroft: my current jointer has a spiral head, as does my thicknesser, and they both perform well, so i'll be ok with that compromise
10:06 AM JT-Cave: sounds like the rain has let up so time to hit the shop and make some parts
10:06 AM roycroft: the rain is coming back here tomorrow
10:07 AM roycroft: and btw, while the extra 2" of width will be nice, it's really the longer bed that will make the biggest difference for me
10:07 AM roycroft: my current jointer has a 46" bed, and the one one is 76"
10:07 AM roycroft: new one
10:07 AM roycroft: that makes it a lot easier to make joint long boards
10:08 AM * roycroft cannot think nor type clearly today, and should shut up for a while
10:12 AM JT-Shop: yeah the powermatic I have is 72" long
10:22 AM roycroft: don't get met wrong - the extra 2" width will help a lot
10:23 AM roycroft: but the bed length is the real big deal
10:23 AM roycroft: as well, on my current jointer, the dado guide part of the infeed table is part of the casting
10:24 AM roycroft: so if i need to flatten boards wider than 6" using the thicknesser sled method, i have one go at getting the 6" width flat
10:24 AM roycroft: on the new one, the dado rest is detachable, so i could run it through twice if necessary
10:24 AM roycroft: although i'd say 90+% of the boards i flatten are <8" wide
10:25 AM roycroft: my next upcoming project notwithstanding
10:37 AM firephoto__ is now known as firephoto_
11:30 AM FinboySlick: roycroft: out of curiosity, I looked into those jointer/planer combos. Obviously it's better to have separate machines but usually the combos give you a jointer as wide as the planer, so around 12".
11:30 AM roycroft: finboyslick: i have little space in my shop
11:30 AM roycroft: a combo unit would be very appealing
11:31 AM roycroft: as well, i'll be making some wide veneers in shop soon, and the 12" width of the jointer would be very appealing
11:31 AM FinboySlick: roycroft: Let me look it up.
11:31 AM roycroft: that said, the combo units have shorter beds
11:31 AM roycroft: iirc the ones i was looking at are around 58-60"
11:31 AM roycroft: i also have a 15" thicknesser already
11:32 AM roycroft: so getting a combo unit would involve two compromises: shorter joiner bed and narrower thicknesser capability
11:32 AM roycroft: for me, it makes more sense to keep the two units separate
11:32 AM roycroft: i don't know that it's obviously better to have two separate machines
11:33 AM roycroft: the combo units i looked at can be switched around from one fuction to the other in less than a minute
11:33 AM FinboySlick: https://www.busybeetools.com/products/12in-jointer-planer-combo-helical-rikon.html is what I fished out but they had something bigger.
11:33 AM roycroft: there's also generally a cost savings with a combo unit
11:33 AM roycroft: i can get a decent combo unit for about $3k
11:34 AM roycroft: my new jointer just cost me $2k
11:34 AM roycroft: and my 15" thicknesser was over $2k
11:34 AM roycroft: it's more like $2.5k now, i think
11:35 AM roycroft: see, that one you linked to has a 55-1/2" jointer bed
11:35 AM roycroft: that's not much longer than my current one
11:36 AM roycroft: if i'm honest, that's a bigger drawback than the reduced thicknesser capacity, especially since i have an open end drum sander
11:36 AM roycroft: i could sand up to 36" wide panels in two passes with that
11:37 AM roycroft: when i built my new workbench last summer i was jointing some very long, wide, thick boards
11:37 AM roycroft: it was a real struggle doing it on the 6" jointer because of the short bed
11:37 AM roycroft: i'd been wanting a new jointer for a long time, but that project definitely move that off the back burner
11:38 AM roycroft: and i've been thinking about it ever since
11:38 AM roycroft: if you're working primarily with shorter boards that's not a big deal
11:38 AM roycroft: and really, the 12" wide jointer bed would be so sweet
11:39 AM roycroft: when i'm cutting veneers, the process is to flatten and thickness the board
11:39 AM roycroft: take a slice off both sides of it with the band saw
11:39 AM roycroft: flatten both sides again
11:40 AM roycroft: take another slice of both sides
11:40 AM FinboySlick: roycroft: And I guess if you work with longer boards, only occasionally, spending the time to setup a roller properly for those occasions is probably worth it too.
11:40 AM roycroft: repeat until it's too thin to slice again
11:40 AM roycroft: i can reflatten the board with my drum sander
11:41 AM roycroft: if i did not have that, then i'd have seriously considered a combo machine
11:41 AM roycroft: yes, setting up rollers can be worth it
11:41 AM roycroft: that for me is kind of a hassle
11:41 AM roycroft: since my shop is so small, when i was building the workbench i hauled my bandsaw, jointer, and thicknesser outside onto my driveway and worked the large boards there
11:42 AM roycroft: and the driveway is sloped
11:42 AM roycroft: setting up rollers would be tricky
11:43 AM FinboySlick: You need the three-driveway method to set it flat ;)
11:43 AM roycroft: the irony of all this is that when i'm making my living in the shop, my current plans will involve mostly working with fairly short boards
11:43 AM roycroft: yet i'm getting a new jointer that handles long boards
11:43 AM roycroft: but i've many years of experience doing this, and i used to own an 8" jointer with a long bed
11:43 AM roycroft: when that length is needed it's really needed
11:44 AM FinboySlick: What's your typical woodwork when it comes to making a living? Cabinetry?
11:44 AM roycroft: i did that years ago
11:44 AM roycroft: i'm planning on making small items very nicely - shoji/kumiko based for now, at least
11:45 AM roycroft: i can sell handmade lamps for several hundred dollars
11:45 AM roycroft: it's enjoyable work and the size of the products fits a small shop well
11:46 AM roycroft: i have some other ideas that i'm not ready to discuss right now, but there are some high end niche markets waiting for me :)
11:46 AM FinboySlick: Hearing that fills me will all the warm fuzzies. So nice to see someone making a living out of a craft.
11:46 AM roycroft: well i'm not there yet
11:46 AM roycroft: this jointer is the last big machinery thing i need to do get ready for production
11:46 AM FinboySlick: Well, I'm definitely rooting for you.
11:46 AM roycroft: i still have some shop fixtures to make
11:47 AM roycroft: and i still have to do the cnc conversion of my mill/drill so that i can make the jigs i need easily
11:47 AM roycroft: but i'm making progress pretty much every single day
12:34 PM mrec: hmm... isn't motion.probe-input directly connected with G38.2?
12:35 PM mrec: while it triggers in halscope and hal configuration .. it doesn't trip when the endmill is touching the tool setter
12:35 PM mrec: rip .. 5mm drill
12:36 PM mrec: G38.1 just happily keeps running down.. what a shit.
12:38 PM JT-Shop: sounds like you didn't connect the input in hal
12:39 PM JT-Shop: nothing is directly connected you must make all the connections in hal
12:39 PM mrec: JT-Shop: but if motion.probe-input shows a signal isn't that enough?
12:40 PM JT-Shop: when you cycle the input?
12:40 PM mrec: yes
12:40 PM JT-Shop: it should be connected then
12:41 PM mrec: ... ok I think I got it
12:41 PM mrec: it was running an old test but the fixture and everything has changed
12:42 PM mrec: tool test pos ... of course was totally wrong no wonder the drill crashed
12:42 PM mrec: I just did that a week ago and already forgot about it due to too many other things :-(
12:46 PM mrec: everything works ...
01:05 PM * JT-Shop needs to walk down to the mailbox but it won't stop raining
01:06 PM hightower2: oh interesting, the famous dj delorie seems to be an inhabitant of this channel
01:06 PM djdelorie: have been for a long time...
01:08 PM djdelorie: just not one of the talkative ones :-)
01:09 PM hightower2: It's all the more appreciated :)
01:12 PM FinboySlick: all the superstars hang out here, it's one of our best-kept secret.
01:13 PM djdelorie: because all the superstars secretly dream of building killer robots, and cnc machines are a good start... ;-)
01:14 PM djdelorie: (although so far my cnc machine has only succeeded in harming itself - lost a limit switch, drove the Z carriage through the X axis wall)
01:14 PM djdelorie: ball screw, jack screw, it's all the same for that poor support...
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: I wonder what the deadliest machine is that runs GRBL is so far?
01:19 PM FinboySlick: Mine is a contender if it tips over and crushes me when I move it.
01:22 PM roycroft: if it does that and kills you, please inform us so that we'll know why you left the channel
01:29 PM sensille: Loetmichel_: can you recommend a way oil?
01:34 PM Loetmichel: sensille: nope, never bought one
01:34 PM Loetmichel: the few times i used some was "old stock" i got gifted from a friend
01:36 PM sensille: ok, so i get just any glp68
01:38 PM roycroft: in the united states, mobil vactra 2 is a good genera-purpose way oil, but i'm not sure if it's available overseas
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: Mobil Vactraâ„¢ Oil Numbered Series Mobil industrial , Switzerland
01:42 PM roycroft: just because it is made overseas does not mean it's available overseas :)
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.mapodo.de/en/mobil-vactra-no-2
01:45 PM roycroft: that's a better indicator
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: found some in Canada as well :)
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: and that non EU UK place
01:45 PM roycroft: and that's a lifetime supply for the hobby machinist
01:46 PM roycroft: canada is not "overseas" unless you get there via lake superior
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.schmierstoff-zentrale.de/mobil-vactra-no.-2
01:47 PM roycroft: is sjeoow that stiffer, more plasticky version of sjoow?
01:47 PM roycroft: i.e. the version that comes on cheap machines
01:50 PM CaptHindsight: I'm pretty sure that when Lincoln ended the civil war against Germany one of the requirements for Treaty of Versailles was to allow for the import of US oil via the middle east
01:51 PM sensille: roycroft, CaptHindsight: thanks
01:51 PM sensille: yeah, just 208l
01:52 PM sensille: and when i used it up i learn to make a steel drum
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: i have a near full drum if you need some
01:54 PM sensille: found someone offering 1l
01:56 PM roycroft: it is lunch time
01:56 PM roycroft: time to finally go test the extraction setup for my belt grinder
03:44 PM Rab: sensille, you made a steel drum? How did it turn out?
03:46 PM sensille: no :) but the way oil is was looking for comes in a drum. so i'd just have to use it up and could then make a steel drum. using it up might only take 3 lifetimes
03:47 PM Rab: ahh
03:47 PM FinboySlick: isn't it hydrolic oil that works in a pinch for way oil?
03:47 PM FinboySlick: Or is that more for linear rails and what not?
03:47 PM Rab: Making and tuning a steel drum seems like it would take another lifetime, but I guess people turn them out faster than that.
03:49 PM sensille: i always hear learning to build handpans takes about 5 years full time
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: metal spinning?
03:55 PM sensille: https://youtu.be/b9q14ZGHcNc
03:59 PM gregcnc: https://www.ebay.de/itm/224334948177
04:09 PM roycroft: and fedex just arrived with a priority overnight letter for me
04:09 PM roycroft: it is from goldman-sachs, and contains a cashier's check for $0.01, for the interest accrued on my account which i closed with them
04:10 PM FinboySlick: The government heard that you want to make a living out of actual work and demands that you cease and desist immediately?
04:10 PM FinboySlick: Oh, almost as good.
04:11 PM roycroft: i just calculated that actual accrued interest on the account was $0.0001348
04:11 PM roycroft: but they rounded it up to the nearest penny
04:11 PM roycroft: even though i told them they could keep it
04:12 PM FinboySlick: Wonder if they get subsidized for for what it costs to send you the check.
04:12 PM roycroft: i had withdrawn all my funds from the account and then requested that they close it
04:12 PM roycroft: but i accrued $0.33 interest between the time i withdrew the funds and the time they closed the account
04:12 PM roycroft: so i accrued some interest on the interest
04:12 PM roycroft: it cost them at least $50 to do this
04:13 PM roycroft: two phone calls, processing the check, priority overnight shipping
04:13 PM gregcnc: so what? they get to make money from nothing, it's free
04:17 PM roycroft: i don't like waste and inefficiency, no matter what the circumstances
04:18 PM roycroft: but in fairness, this may not be their fault
04:18 PM roycroft: there could be an fdic requirement for them to do it
04:18 PM roycroft: or other regulatory body rule
04:18 PM gregcnc: the fed just printed another 1.9trillion......
04:19 PM roycroft: which doesn't make it not stupid
04:19 PM roycroft: it would just shift the stupidity
04:26 PM roycroft: the fed did not do that - the treasury department just printed part of that
04:27 PM roycroft: and they will get that money back
04:28 PM roycroft: with interest rates at essentialy zero, the best and cheapest way for the government to stimulate the economy and work towards reducing the deficit is to print money like that
04:28 PM roycroft: that may not seem intuitive, but it's true
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: nah, you let people and corps keep it out of the USA, safely invested... sorry couldn't even type that with a straight face
04:33 PM roycroft: that doesn't benefit the government directly
04:33 PM roycroft: but it does benefit the people who own the government
04:35 PM CaptHindsight: you make it sound like there a bunch of guys in backrooms smoking cigars pulling all the strings
04:39 PM roycroft: no, that is the old school way
04:40 PM roycroft: they're pretty open about it now
04:40 PM roycroft: they are honest about how they manipulate our government
04:40 PM roycroft: but the gays
04:40 PM roycroft: but the mexicans
04:41 PM roycroft: but the blm and antifa
04:41 PM roycroft: but her emails
04:41 PM roycroft: but the child sex ring in the pizza parlor basement
04:41 PM roycroft: they can afford to be honest
04:41 PM roycroft: because they lie about everything else
04:41 PM roycroft: anyway
04:42 PM roycroft: my extractor experiment went swimmingly
04:42 PM roycroft: i can use the belt grinder on wood and not fill the fabrication shop with sawdust
04:44 PM CaptHindsight: yes, best approach is collect the dust at the source vs try and collect it later
04:46 PM roycroft: absolutely
04:46 PM roycroft: espeically in a mixed wood-metal shop
04:46 PM roycroft: and especially especially when one does finishing in said shop
04:47 PM roycroft: grinding dust falls to the ground quickly
04:47 PM roycroft: i can weld and grind and then paint shortly thereafter without issue
04:47 PM roycroft: but wood dust can linger for hours
04:48 PM CaptHindsight: 60's next week again (20C's)
04:48 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: how long until you are back in fire season?
04:53 PM roycroft: any day now
04:53 PM roycroft: fire season is year-round in california now, and almost year-round here
05:10 PM XXCoder: here we have 5 seasons
05:10 PM XXCoder: cool rain, cold rain, cool rain, hot, smokey hellscope
05:33 PM NoGodDamnIdea: where is _unreal_ when I need him D:
05:34 PM XXCoder: hes unreal
05:34 PM XXCoder: your imganation
05:34 PM XXCoder: ;)
05:34 PM NoGodDamnIdea: heh
05:39 PM * JT-Shop has a new friend Junior a small runt of a deer
05:47 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: lost its MOM?
05:47 PM XXCoder: its mom was yummy?
05:53 PM JT-Shop: it's kinda a runt and a loner doesn't look like a ute
05:53 PM JT-Shop: I doubt a young one could make it through last winter alone
05:56 PM XXCoder: you feeding it?
05:58 PM JT-Shop: corn
06:00 PM XXCoder: nice :)
06:01 PM JT-Shop: I feed the deer all year long from a feeder but this one comes up to the house so I open the shop door and toss out some corn for it
06:03 PM XXCoder: :)
06:06 PM JT-Shop: one more shop light converted to LED tubes... time to call it a day
06:17 PM XXCoder: :)
06:20 PM roycroft: i am starting to dismantle my blasting cabinet for the refurbishment/upgrade today
06:31 PM perry_j1987: hmm what should i 3d print tonight
06:32 PM XXCoder: im printing moai head with shiny black
06:32 PM CaptHindsight: time machine to go back and kill Hitler
06:33 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6q54q2iam8
06:33 PM XXCoder: have fun
06:34 PM XXCoder: musou black paint
06:36 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.dezeen.com/2019/09/24/blackest-black-mit-material-news-vantablack/
06:36 PM XXCoder: capt yeah vanta is blackest thing
06:37 PM XXCoder: anything
06:37 PM XXCoder: musou is current blackest paint
06:37 PM XXCoder: also paint you dont have to mortage for too
06:37 PM CaptHindsight: it's a big thing with inks
06:38 PM CaptHindsight: color density vs film thickness
06:38 PM XXCoder: lol he reuses room for LIT paint https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjdFn1RYHDE
07:19 PM _unreal_: eureka the FUCKING limits are working FINALLY
07:20 PM _unreal_: 2 of the limits I built didnt work got to rebuild/replace them but the other 3 work fine
07:20 PM _unreal_: FINALLLY
07:20 PM _unreal_: the laser etcher is going to have life
07:26 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:26 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:55 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:55 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:42 PM NoGodDamnIdea: should have checked this better
08:42 PM NoGodDamnIdea: _unreal_, I have some problem I cant figure it out with grbl, can you help me out a bit?
09:01 PM NoGodDamnIdea: night I guess
09:40 PM Bleeptech: Anybody want to help me annoy a first generation Accu-Cut by Computerized Cutters Inc till it runs on linuxcnc? If's got to be at least 25 years old and it pre-dates them serial numbering the machines. LOL
09:42 PM * Bleeptech is working on wiring up a new set of DM542s and a DB25-1205 parport card at the moment to replace the old fried drivers.
09:44 PM XXCoder: well i hope for your success heh
09:44 PM XXCoder: hey unterhaus
09:44 PM XXCoder: hey unterhaus_
09:44 PM unterhaus_: ya
09:47 PM XXCoder: seems my mmu2 is also dead lol
09:47 PM XXCoder: i ordered new wires
09:50 PM Bleeptech: XXCoder: Success will be certain. I've already replaced a locked up Z stepper, polished the rust off of the linear slides where the roof blew off of the aircraft hangar it was in during a storm, tossed the dead controller box over my shoulder, started building a new controller in an old heavy steel fire alarm panel box and scrounged up an AMD64 box to drive it. :D
09:50 PM XXCoder: got any pics? im curious heh
09:52 PM Bleeptech: Got a pic of it the day I made the deal to get it. You can see the rust on the gantry slide. https://imgur.com/a/6qgeGqY
09:53 PM XXCoder: wow that looks nice one
09:53 PM XXCoder: need lot of work to work again, but strong frame
09:53 PM XXCoder: i bet frame isnt even alum
09:53 PM XXCoder: stronger metals
09:54 PM Bleeptech: The top 6" of the table are all 6061-T6 slabs. The base is 3" square tubing with panels they added later.
09:55 PM Bleeptech: Thinnest pieces are the tabletop plates at 3/8" thick and the gantry end plates are 3/4".
09:57 PM Bleeptech: I was working on building a Lowrider V2 and had all the elctronics and steppers for the jumbo version when this deal showed up and I figured I'd be crazy to not grab it as a frame/table.
10:03 PM Bleeptech: So what's the closest generic config to an XYYZ machine ? Or should I just go through StepConf and set it all up manually ?
10:17 PM Bleeptech: XXCoder: The linear slides are cleaning up nicely with Scotch-Brite disks on a drill arbor but the stuff disintegrates as t cleas so it looks like Oscar the Grouch has been shedding all over my shop. LOL
10:54 PM XXCoder: bleep nice
10:57 PM Bleeptech: Is 40000 an accepable jitter figure after running the latency test with 5 running copies of GLXgears scattered around the screen ?
10:57 PM XXCoder: add HD screen video
10:57 PM XXCoder: some people tend to leave it running for hours to get good average
10:57 PM Bleeptech: XXCoder: ?
10:58 PM XXCoder: leave HD video running and few glxgears
10:58 PM Bleeptech: I left it run like that for a few hours earlier to get that number. It was actually 39033.
10:58 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOnIAoqQkd4
11:01 PM Bleeptech: XXCoder: No network connection to that machine yet so I haven't added squat to it past the install from the Live. I'm debating whether to keep it airgapped or not since I'm already arse deep in the neighbors random router signals and having hell getting better than 1Mb/sec with all the RF clutter.
11:02 PM XXCoder: yeah you could setup a pc for other stuff and networking
11:02 PM Bleeptech: I'
11:03 PM Bleeptech: This is an old AMD 64 box with 1.5gb of RAM and i was planning on running it as a dedicated box just to drive the CNC.
11:04 PM Bleeptech: I've got newer that I'm using for web/entertainment.
11:04 PM XXCoder: that'd work well I think
11:04 PM XXCoder: try bump off some power savings stuff in bios
11:04 PM XXCoder: if its not off already that might boost latency some
11:04 PM Bleeptech: Hell, An RPi3 blows that box out of the water for speed. LOL
11:05 PM XXCoder: :)
11:06 PM _unreal_: ok so the limit switches are ARE... working
11:06 PM Bleeptech: I've turned off AMDs version of hyperthreading and all hte exrtas I could find including sount and PXE boot ROM hooks.
11:06 PM _unreal_: having some but dealing with up side down and backwords issues
11:06 PM _unreal_: ARG...
11:06 PM _unreal_: NOTHING MORE annoying then trying to solve the inversion issues with grbl
11:07 PM Bleeptech: _unreal_: It's getter than finding out they don't when the gantry lands in your crotch. LOL
11:08 PM _unreal_: o,O
11:10 PM Bleeptech: XXCoder: Been having hell finding a decently new machine with a parallel port. Everything I've got that has a dual core and an LPT port has died or is hyper buggy due to bad caps.
11:12 PM XXCoder: yeah thats why rpi4 one is amazing
11:12 PM XXCoder: rpi4 will be sold for while
11:17 PM Bleeptech: XXCoder: It'd be great if somebody would hack together a driver to use the old IOMega USB<>DB25 parport SCSI adapters. Otherwise I may be looking for a Mesa FPGA I/O board before I'm done.
11:17 PM XXCoder: im far less skilled than you unfortunately
11:25 PM Bleeptech: Bingo! I knew I could find that again if I kept at it... This project has I/O pins out the wazoo using an FPGA to translate from gigabit ethernet. Might be a cheap replacement for the Mesa boards. https://github.com/q3k/chubby75.
11:26 PM XXCoder: honestly mesa isnt that expensive
11:35 PM Bleeptech: XXCoder: I'm seeing ~$35 for the LED driver cards vs $200-$400 for the Mesa boards.
11:35 PM XXCoder: wheres you seeing those prices
11:35 PM XXCoder: jt's store its arpound 100-150
11:36 PM XXCoder: https://mesaus.com/
11:36 PM XXCoder: ah plug and go kits
11:37 PM XXCoder: id suggest wait for jt to come back in few hours (3 am, my time, now 9 pm)
11:38 PM XXCoder: but yeah still more than $35 so youre right still cheaper
11:41 PM Bleeptech: XXCoder: OK, Those prices are better but still outside my budget for parts to throw at this right now.
11:41 PM XXCoder: indeed
11:44 PM Bleeptech: Which is why all the wiring going into this was salvaged from the contol wiring for an old industrial A/C unit. Also partly because I'm a cheap SOB. LOL
11:44 PM XXCoder: lol :)
11:46 PM roycroft: wow
11:46 PM roycroft: i just got an email from grizzly - my jointer is already in seattle
11:47 PM roycroft: it is due to arrive on friday
11:47 PM roycroft: they usually take 7-10 days to deliver
11:47 PM * roycroft is nowhere near ready to receive the shipment
11:50 PM Bleeptech: XXCoder: My new control cabinet is the box from one of these. Lightning strike took out the panel and they just popped the new board out of the new box and installed it in the old one. I ended up with the new box and the dead board as scrap. LOL https://www.firelite.com/en-us/Pages/Product.aspx?category=Addressable%20Fire%20Alarm%20Control%20Panels&cat=HLS-FIRELITE&pid=ms-9200udls
11:53 PM XXCoder: looking
11:54 PM XXCoder: that seems to be decent box for hardware
11:54 PM XXCoder: also, why not install new box?