#linuxcnc Logs
Mar 14 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:34 AM Deejay: moin
04:13 AM rue_mohr: _unreal_, do you know how to poll the limit switches?
05:52 AM gloops: damn, crunchy ball is actually a crunchy stepper bearing
05:53 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:53 AM gloops: hi
08:43 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:43 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:48 AM veegee: gloops crunchy gives it personality
09:48 AM veegee: treasure it
09:48 AM veegee: NO ONE can take that away from you
09:49 AM gregcnc: odd to have a stepper motor bearing fail
09:49 AM gloops: well its interesting to hold the machine frame and feel the thudding and grinding coming from it
09:50 AM gregcnc: I'm going to guess it something within the motor
09:50 AM gloops: yeah a bit gritty, its still running, or it was when i went out an hour ago lol
09:50 AM gloops: got one coming for thursday
09:52 AM gloops: will just fit new one then have a look at the old one
11:44 AM _unreal_: this is where I need a 3d printer
11:44 AM _unreal_: https://www.amazon.com/Gebildet-Normally-Induction-2-5mm%C3%9714mm-Multi-Use/dp/B07YFBQ4HS/ref=sr_1_21?dchild=1&keywords=small%2Bmagnetic%2Breed%2Bswitch%2Bn%2Fo&qid=1615739173&sr=8-21&th=1
11:44 AM _unreal_: need a 3d printed holder
11:45 AM _unreal_: likely make it from 1/16th sheet/shit aluminum milled on my cnc and fold em up
12:22 PM CaptHindsight: crunchy bearings are common among my Chinese bearing and motor purchases
12:23 PM CaptHindsight: some are ground with flats, many are just full of sand and dirt for extra traction
12:25 PM CaptHindsight: other may have ben attempts at providing the bearings with detents so you can count rotations audibly
12:27 PM roycroft: happy pi day
01:11 PM sensille: these downcut endmills sound like a dentist drill
01:13 PM perry_j1987: morning
01:13 PM perry_j1987: err afternoon
01:13 PM perry_j1987: its sunday the whole day is morning heh
01:13 PM perry_j1987: just finished adding white LED underlighting to 16ft of shelving units
01:14 PM perry_j1987: turned out real nice looking
01:18 PM _unreal_: JUST FINISHED drawing a new PCB cad drwing
01:18 PM bjorkintosh: how are you going to print it?
01:19 PM _unreal_: print?
01:19 PM _unreal_: mill
01:19 PM bjorkintosh: oh fun
01:23 PM perry_j1987: kicad?
01:25 PM _unreal_: kicad
01:25 PM _unreal_: I have fusion and eagle etchh but dont really know how to use eagle
01:25 PM _unreal_: never bothered to learn it
01:25 PM _unreal_: fusion just pissis me off they key changing it
01:26 PM _unreal_: every time I get use to it they change it again on me
01:42 PM NoGodDamnIdea: hello everyone
01:42 PM NoGodDamnIdea: it never occurred to me to ask my cnc related questions to a cnc channel
01:42 PM bjorkintosh: but now it has.
01:43 PM bjorkintosh: and you have a god damn idea!
01:43 PM NoGodDamnIdea: heh
01:43 PM NoGodDamnIdea: for a week I have tried my best to fix a Stepcraft 420
01:44 PM NoGodDamnIdea: its motherboard basically fried and it had been just gathering dust at a friends place
01:44 PM NoGodDamnIdea: so I decided to try and fix it, cleaned all the messy wiring and tried using a ramps 1.4 board as its new controller board
01:45 PM NoGodDamnIdea: for some reason only one of the 5 drivers I got ( or perhaps its a problem with the shield ) worked
01:45 PM NoGodDamnIdea: I also had a trinamic shield for the arduino mega
01:45 PM NoGodDamnIdea: that I *somewhat* got to work
01:46 PM NoGodDamnIdea: spins the motors just fine but I cannot for the love of me make it to have a what do you say
01:46 PM NoGodDamnIdea: basically x=0, y=0, z=0
01:46 PM NoGodDamnIdea: in the right places
01:46 PM _unreal_: Whaaaaa? just because this is a CNC CHANNEL you think we talk about cnc stuff?
01:46 PM _unreal_: paaaaaa pure stocks baby
01:46 PM _unreal_: ;)
01:47 PM bjorkintosh: hahahahah
01:47 PM NoGodDamnIdea: well I also want to make money so stock chat also helps :D
01:47 PM bjorkintosh: it's the bitcoin fad. it'll pass. give it a minute.
01:47 PM NoGodDamnIdea: I have 40$ worth of bitcoin left too
01:47 PM _unreal_: waiting for my AEZS to run again
01:47 PM _unreal_: made over 20k few weeks ago
01:48 PM bjorkintosh: nice. how much did you have to spend?
01:48 PM NoGodDamnIdea: so my question is, what controller do you guys recommend
01:48 PM _unreal_: $3k
01:48 PM NoGodDamnIdea: _unreal_, 20k $?
01:48 PM _unreal_: NoGodDamnIdea, well this is linuxcnc
01:49 PM _unreal_: so you are going to be using parallel port or a mesa
01:49 PM _unreal_: or anything compatable with linuxcnc which is basicly mesa or parallel port
01:49 PM _unreal_: lol
01:49 PM _unreal_: do you use linuxcnc?
01:49 PM _unreal_: do you have a cnc machine?
01:49 PM _unreal_: are you new to cnc or old pro?
01:52 PM NoGodDamnIdea: well to answer one by one, I would prefer to used USB :P , my friend does have some messa board but they are for analog servos iirc, I do not use linuxcnc, I have access to 2 broken machines, the one I want to repair being the Stepcraft 420 because its nice looking, I am new to CNC
01:52 PM NoGodDamnIdea: I am just a student :D
01:52 PM NoGodDamnIdea: I do hope I am allowed to ask cnc related questions and not just linuxcnc related questions
01:53 PM bjorkintosh: you have no god damn idea what you can ask, do you? you can ask any god damn question you want NoGodDamnIdea!
01:54 PM NoGodDamnIdea: hehe
01:56 PM _unreal_: well if your looking at using one of the existing machines to fix?
01:56 PM _unreal_: you need to know how it functions
01:56 PM _unreal_: does it have a controller already
01:56 PM pcw_home: Main LinuxCNC hardware options are Pico Systems, Mesa, General Mechatronics, EtherCat, parallel port, RPI GPIO
01:57 PM _unreal_: Stepcraft 420 is a cute looking little thing
01:57 PM _unreal_: NoGodDamnIdea, does the Stepcraft 420 have a working controller what is wrong with it?
01:57 PM _unreal_: how did/has the Stepcraft 420 failed?
01:58 PM _unreal_: if thats what your looking to get going?
01:59 PM NoGodDamnIdea: well my friend told me it just got fried
01:59 PM NoGodDamnIdea: I have no idea how that happened
01:59 PM _unreal_: palm to face
01:59 PM NoGodDamnIdea: its been sitting for a while
01:59 PM _unreal_: IS THE CONTROLLER that makes the motors move fried?
02:00 PM NoGodDamnIdea: like years
02:00 PM NoGodDamnIdea: yup
02:00 PM _unreal_: ! OK
02:00 PM _unreal_: do you know what the amps value is for the motors how much power do they draw
02:00 PM _unreal_: ?
02:00 PM NoGodDamnIdea: I like how RPI GPIO sounds pcw_home :D
02:00 PM NoGodDamnIdea: _unreal_, yes just a second
02:02 PM NoGodDamnIdea: 1.4 amps seems like it
02:03 PM NoGodDamnIdea: https://en.nanotec.com/products/360-st4118m1404-a
02:04 PM _unreal_: ok
02:04 PM _unreal_: sweet
02:04 PM _unreal_: NoGodDamnIdea, I would STRONGLY suggest this
02:04 PM _unreal_: and before I post it THROW AWAY the arduino. unless you want to use it as a GRBL machine
02:05 PM _unreal_: https://www.amazon.com/kuman-Expansion-Stepper-Heatsink-Arduino/dp/B06XHKSVTG/ref=asc_df_B06XHKSVTG/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312760964359&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8848018747256868743&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9012053&hvtargid=pla-584861843926&psc=1
02:06 PM _unreal_: you can use jumper wires and connect them to an PRI4 board hat. you can tie them to a parallel port.
02:06 PM _unreal_: you can tie the control wires to a mesa or any other controller that pcw_home POSTED that are compatable with linuxcnc IF you want to go with linux cnc
02:06 PM _unreal_: but thats $17 for a working solution to get the machine working
02:07 PM NoGodDamnIdea: wait I am confused, did you not say I should throw away the arduino?
02:07 PM _unreal_: the motor controllers will handle upto 2 amps
02:07 PM _unreal_: if you want to use that controller board the "HAT" with linuxcnc. the arduino is useless
02:08 PM _unreal_: if you want to use the arduino then your going to be using a GRBL setup
02:08 PM _unreal_: do you use linux linux in general?
02:08 PM NoGodDamnIdea: yes from time to time
02:09 PM _unreal_: so what I just gave you is a solution under $20 to make that machine work
02:10 PM _unreal_: if the only thing wrong with it is the motion control board failed
02:10 PM NoGodDamnIdea: yes that is the only thing
02:10 PM NoGodDamnIdea: so just so I understand what you are saying, I should use the arduino shield on the raspberry
02:11 PM _unreal_: you can
02:11 PM _unreal_: yes
02:11 PM _unreal_: BUT
02:11 PM NoGodDamnIdea: but?
02:11 PM rs[m]: NoGodDamnIdea: https://github.com/scottalford75/Remora/tree/main/Firmware
02:11 PM _unreal_: remember the RPI's there GPIO ports are 3.3v you have to use 3.3v-5v adapters
02:13 PM NoGodDamnIdea: isnt there a raspberry hat I could buy so I dont have to ghetto it?
02:13 PM _unreal_: yes but its GRBL based
02:13 PM rs[m]: NoGodDamnIdea: look at the github link i posted
02:13 PM _unreal_: or at least the one I know of
02:14 PM NoGodDamnIdea: I was looking at it rs[m] , it needs a smoothieboard right ?
02:14 PM rs[m]: it is your pi hat
02:15 PM _unreal_: rs[m], ?
02:15 PM _unreal_: rs[m], now I'm confused
02:15 PM NoGodDamnIdea: what hat? the arduino one?
02:15 PM _unreal_: the only RPI hat I know of is this one
02:15 PM _unreal_: https://wiki.protoneer.co.nz/Raspberry_Pi_CNC
02:15 PM _unreal_: but thats GRBL based
02:15 PM _unreal_: and uses the serial RXTX from the GPIO header
02:16 PM _unreal_: rs[m], what motor controller interface is that link using?
02:16 PM NoGodDamnIdea: also, I already have the ramps 1.4 for the arduino mega https://www.amazon.com/WINGONEER-Printer-Controller-Shield-Arduino/dp/B077X9BVRT
02:16 PM rs[m]: sorry i didn't follow the whole discussion. the remora firmware make a smoothieboard talk to linuxcnc on a raspberry pi
02:16 PM rs[m]: afaiu
02:17 PM _unreal_: never played with smoothieboardes
02:17 PM _unreal_: dont know anything about them
02:17 PM _unreal_: are they GRBL or custom HAL?
02:17 PM _unreal_: damn
02:17 PM _unreal_: well I got to run xwife messaged she's taking are daughter finally
02:18 PM _unreal_: 3 hour drive 1.5 to and back :(
02:18 PM rs[m]: https://remora-docs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
02:18 PM _unreal_: SPI....
02:18 PM _unreal_: so custom HAL
02:19 PM NoGodDamnIdea: thanks for the advice _unreal_
02:20 PM NoGodDamnIdea: wish there was something out of the box to work without having to make all these combinations of hardware :(
02:20 PM _unreal_: NoGodDamnIdea, the link I posted is THAT
02:20 PM _unreal_: but
02:20 PM _unreal_: its grbl
02:20 PM _unreal_: nothing wrong with it.
02:21 PM _unreal_: just means you have to use universal gcode sender, or bcnc I SUGGEST BCNC, or lasergrbl
02:21 PM _unreal_: or any number of other grbl gcode sender programs
02:21 PM _unreal_: even WEB API
02:21 PM _unreal_: linuxcnc does all the same stuff you just have to set it all up
02:22 PM _unreal_: if your looking for the most expansion (+ MASSIVE LEARNING CURVE) linuxcnc is it. If your looking for up and running in a day
02:22 PM _unreal_: that arduino/hat setup will do it
02:22 PM NoGodDamnIdea: well i think i mentioned I already tried that and failed haha
02:23 PM _unreal_: tried what?
02:23 PM _unreal_: I missed that
02:23 PM NoGodDamnIdea: as I said at the beginning, I already have an arduino and cnc shield combo
02:23 PM _unreal_: THEN USE IT
02:23 PM NoGodDamnIdea: just the bigger one, with arduino mega + ramps 1.4 board
02:23 PM NoGodDamnIdea: which is basically what you linked but bigger
02:23 PM _unreal_: just dont expect any LINUXcnc help lol
02:24 PM _unreal_: well as I said if you have it then go for it
02:24 PM _unreal_: ditch the existing hardware in that machine
02:24 PM NoGodDamnIdea: I did throw it away, only wires are remaining
02:24 PM _unreal_: my daughters mini cnc machine uses an arduino/grbl setup works great
02:24 PM NoGodDamnIdea: but marlin is a bitch and my chinese drv8825 are all fried except for one
02:24 PM _unreal_: go with the drivers that are in that link
02:25 PM NoGodDamnIdea: so I was looking to convince my friend to buy a controller
02:25 PM _unreal_: drv8825's instantly burn if they are not connected to a motor the second you turn them on
02:25 PM NoGodDamnIdea: such bullshit
02:25 PM _unreal_: ok time to go back in 3 hour
02:25 PM _unreal_: no they are OLD
02:25 PM _unreal_: the new drivers which are linked in the link I posted
02:25 PM _unreal_: 4988 something like that?
02:25 PM _unreal_: dont have that issue
02:25 PM NoGodDamnIdea: yeah
02:26 PM _unreal_: just get some new drivers
02:26 PM NoGodDamnIdea: its though in europe
02:26 PM _unreal_: you may find its cheaper to get that link I posted and just use the motor controlelrs in your other controller setup
02:26 PM _unreal_: your call
02:26 PM NoGodDamnIdea: but I will manage
02:27 PM NoGodDamnIdea: well I was thinking I should first look to see if there is any hassle free alternative
02:27 PM rs[m]: NoGodDamnIdea: if you want something that is as close to "one piece" as possible with with rpi and linuxcnc, remora looks promising
02:28 PM NoGodDamnIdea: it does indeed rs[m]
02:29 PM rs[m]: mesa 7c80 would require external stepper drivers but apart from that is also an integrated solution
02:30 PM rs[m]: mesa 7c81 would require a BOB plus stepper drivers
02:30 PM NoGodDamnIdea: I do have external stepper drivers
02:31 PM NoGodDamnIdea: CWD556
02:32 PM NoGodDamnIdea: also interestingly enough, for remora , it says "allow LPC17xx micro-controller"
02:32 PM NoGodDamnIdea: i know someone with a SKR 1.4
02:34 PM rs[m]: it should be possible to port to any mbed hardware platform with minimal fuzz
02:37 PM NoGodDamnIdea: thanks!
03:56 PM XXCoder1: happy pie day all
04:01 PM roycroft: my supplier of air hose fittings have switched to crappy no-name ones
04:02 PM roycroft: does anyone have a good source for quick-disconnect air fittings, preferably american made?
04:03 PM roycroft: and i know how to google
04:03 PM roycroft: i'm looking for someone who has actually used them
04:04 PM buzzmarshall: all-in-one boards like the smoothie are ok as long as your not killing motor drivers as doing smd work is harder then just swapping a driver on a ramps like controller
04:04 PM roycroft: and i do not want "universal" fittings
04:06 PM JT-Shop: mcmaster
04:07 PM roycroft: thanks - i was already looking at their site
04:07 PM roycroft: but wasn't sure what to expect from them
04:07 PM roycroft: their stuff is usually good quality
04:11 PM roycroft: they have some industrial fittings which will work nicely for me, and are what i need right now, but i don't see automotive ones there
04:21 PM JT-Shop: they have fasteners made in the USA and most products are made in USA
04:22 PM JT-Shop: I like the push to connect type
04:27 PM roycroft: yes, but i use two different connector types for that
04:27 PM roycroft: i use industrial for my 'dry' lines/tools
04:27 PM roycroft: i.e. blowoff guns, blasting cabinet, paint sprayers
04:27 PM roycroft: and i use automotive for my oiled lines
04:27 PM roycroft: such as most air tools
04:28 PM roycroft: that way i never contaminate a hose or tool that must be kept oil-free
04:28 PM roycroft: i've also always used brass industrial and steel/aluminium automotive fittings so i can tell at a glance what a hose/connector/tool/whatever needs
04:29 PM JT-Shop: makes sense
04:29 PM roycroft: it works well for me
04:30 PM roycroft: except the fittings are getting hard to find, especially in the material i need
04:37 PM JT-Shop: try finding a shop light with a ballast...
04:41 PM CaptHindsight: "I did throw it away, only wires are remaining"
04:42 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: I have a few here that I can send you
04:43 PM XXCoder1: JT-Shop: i found led lighting that does NOT need ballast
04:43 PM JT-Shop: the type with the ballast in the center mor or less
04:44 PM JT-Shop: XXCoder1, that's what I use LED tubes in shop light fixtures but about 6 of mine have the ballast built into the end and are not usable for that
04:44 PM CaptHindsight: shop light = roughly 3-4 ft long (1m) light fixture?
04:44 PM JT-Shop: 4' long
04:44 PM XXCoder1: cant dummy it out?
04:45 PM JT-Shop: I just found that mcmaster has some
04:45 PM JT-Shop: no, the ballast and end cap are all in one so you can't remove it and just have 120v to the tubes like a normal shop light can
04:48 PM CaptHindsight: how about 4ft LED shop lights with 18" (0.5m) cords?
04:49 PM JT-Shop: hyperikon 6000k frosted led tubes is what I use
04:49 PM CaptHindsight: hope you have a switched outlet nearby
04:49 PM JT-Shop: CaptHindsight, usually the lumens and color suck
04:49 PM JT-Shop: why
04:50 PM CaptHindsight: yeah the 4000k fixtures are great for womens bathrooms
04:50 PM JT-Shop: yea not in a machine shop or fab shop
04:50 PM CaptHindsight: makes everyone look rosy
04:52 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.homedepot.com/p/YANSUN-11-81-in-3-Light-600-Watt-Equivalent-Deformable-LED-Adjustable-Garage-Light-7200LM-6000K-Daylight-White-H-XP07101E26-N1/315643377?
04:53 PM JT-Shop: looks like a klingon space ship
04:54 PM JT-Shop: ah that screws into a fixture
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: they had LED's like this in Asia for years
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: nice to see it finally make it here
06:00 PM snakedGT is now known as snaked
06:01 PM _unreal_: ok... hours later I'm back
06:25 PM unreal is now known as Guest18058
07:25 PM perry_j1987: oughhh ate to much
07:26 PM perry_j1987: but it was good
07:49 PM Guest18058 is now known as _unreal_
07:49 PM _unreal_: t4nk_freenode, so I have a sweet working laser etcher now :p
07:52 PM perry_j1987: what are you using laser for
07:53 PM roycroft: who other reason? he's trying to take over the world!
07:53 PM roycroft: s/who/what/
07:56 PM gloops: _unreal_ is the man with the golden gun
07:57 PM _unreal_: the world is mine
07:57 PM _unreal_: what can I say..... lol " I'm beaming" with pride
07:58 PM _unreal_: onlything that sucks
07:58 PM _unreal_: I just ordered mag. relay switches.
07:58 PM _unreal_: the optical limits are just not working for me
07:58 PM _unreal_: the controler board has issues and does not drop the voltage low enough for the arduino controller to register
07:58 PM _unreal_: keeps giving limit errors
07:58 PM _unreal_: switching to hard limit switching :(
07:58 PM _unreal_: oh well
08:20 PM ziper: what are the odds my lathe doesn't have a carriage lock vs the odds i just don't know how to use it
08:35 PM _unreal_: ziper, good
08:46 PM roycroft: most lathes, except for really small ones, have a carriage lock
08:46 PM roycroft: it's pretty easy to add one on most lathes that don't already have one
08:47 PM ziper: is it usually a lever or just a bolt?
08:48 PM roycroft: i'd guess it's usually a hex screw or a socket had screw
08:48 PM roycroft: it would never be a bolt
08:59 PM _unreal_: I've seen a bolt before
08:59 PM _unreal_: was NOT factory
09:03 PM ziper: I think its weird to call it a screw if it has machine threads just because the head is different
09:03 PM ziper: anyway, I suspect it is broken or missing
09:03 PM ziper: but have a pretty good idea how to make one
09:04 PM roycroft: a bolt would be awkward to use for a carriage lock
09:05 PM ziper: I realize I said the wrong thing, I just wanted to defend myself
09:05 PM roycroft: ziper: the difference between a screw and a bolt is that a screw embeds in the parts being fastened while a bolt goes through the parts and needs a nut on the back to fasten it
09:06 PM roycroft: so a given fastener may be a screw or a bolt, depending on how it is used
09:06 PM ziper: whoa
09:08 PM bjorkintosh: also, bolt is the fastest human being on two legs (at the moment).
09:08 PM bjorkintosh: another distinction.
09:25 PM perry_j1987: lol
09:36 PM _unreal_: well that sucks
09:37 PM _unreal_: just discovered I didnt flip over my PCB
09:37 PM _unreal_: its not mirrored
10:32 PM roycroft: it was a good practice run
11:18 PM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHk52YjGT8HryRYmJKSl-lg
11:18 PM skunkworks: oops
11:18 PM skunkworks: I meant
11:18 PM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3e83H2mEyk
11:42 PM bjorkintosh: skunkworks, how's the ender 3d printer?
11:46 PM skunkworks: I like it
11:46 PM bjorkintosh: the results look great.
11:46 PM skunkworks: way better than the monoprice mini v2...
11:47 PM bjorkintosh: and it's super cheap. 200 bucks or so?
11:47 PM skunkworks: but both do what they were intended to do.
11:47 PM roycroft: i have an ender 5 and i like it a lot
11:47 PM skunkworks: yes - I think I got the pro or something - so maybe just slightly over 200
11:48 PM skunkworks: Dad had one first - I liked it so I bought one for myself
11:48 PM bjorkintosh: it looks really really good. what's the software like?
11:48 PM skunkworks: Pretty basic I guess - I really only use the preheat and print from sd card menu :)
11:48 PM skunkworks: so far
11:49 PM roycroft: i have an rpi4 running octoprint that i use to interface with the machine
11:49 PM bjorkintosh: roycroft, the same Ender?
11:49 PM skunkworks: I still have not done that yet..
11:49 PM roycroft: ender 5 is what i have
11:49 PM roycroft: i don't know what skunkworks has
11:49 PM skunkworks: I have a 3
11:49 PM roycroft: they're similar
11:50 PM roycroft: the 5 has a 4 post enclosure
11:50 PM roycroft: er
11:50 PM roycroft: frame
11:50 PM roycroft: it only has an enclosure if you put sides on the frame
11:51 PM roycroft: the software is marlin
11:51 PM bjorkintosh: I'm ' ' this close to an impulse buy on either a 3d printer or a milling machine.
11:51 PM bjorkintosh: ... for the heck of it. I have no use for anything of the sort at the moment.
11:51 PM roycroft: open source, so you can compile your own version if you need to hack on it
11:52 PM skunkworks: have not gotten that deep into it yet.
11:52 PM skunkworks: it 'just works'
11:52 PM skunkworks: I would get a mill...
11:52 PM roycroft: the enders come with heated beds, while many low end 3d printers do not
11:53 PM roycroft: and adding a bed heater is not the simplese/easiest hack on many printers
11:53 PM roycroft: that's one big reason i went with ender
11:54 PM roycroft: i haven't built my own version of marlin yet either
11:54 PM bjorkintosh: I really have no use for either. it'll just be an impulse buy. it's either that or 34" monitors.
11:54 PM roycroft: but i did buy a laser head for the printer, and i may need a custom marlin build for that
11:58 PM bjorkintosh: <skunkworks> I would get a mill... over a 3D printer?