#linuxcnc Logs

Mar 12 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:34 AM Deejay: moin
04:22 AM Tom_L: morning
04:24 AM mrec: is there any option to transform the g-code coordinates in linuxcnc to mill a bottom side (generated from freecad / top side)?
04:24 AM mrec: https://imgur.com/a/maqbnnn
05:00 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:15 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:34 AM JT-Cave: so far we have only got 1/2" of rain
08:44 AM gregcnc: mrec sensille https://youtu.be/NPz8OSa7H7o
08:46 AM sensille: plunge milling? is that a thing?
08:46 AM gregcnc: do you even machine ;)
08:46 AM sensille: no. i just route
08:48 AM sensille: looks like adaptive has the best built-in chip clearing :)
08:49 AM gregcnc: all depends
09:04 AM gloops: ready to machine for a mould - supposed to look like a cast iron plaque https://ibb.co/xDxRHMR
09:05 AM gloops: https://ibb.co/THg3qhc something like that
10:34 AM mrec: gregcnc: haha you won't do that with my mini mill
10:34 AM mrec: https://imgur.com/a/N44x6wf I'm still on the way
11:20 AM perry_j1987: mmmm coffee
11:43 AM Tom_L: it was pouring here this morning
11:44 AM roycroft: the sun is shining
11:44 AM roycroft: it got down to freezing this morning, but it will get up to 17 this afternoon
11:44 AM roycroft: spring is arriving
11:44 AM roycroft: i am happy today
11:45 AM roycroft: my insurance company called a while ago
11:45 AM roycroft: the settlement for my damaged gazebos is 2x what i paid for them, even after the deducatable
11:45 AM roycroft: and the money will be in my bank account on monday
11:46 AM roycroft: i was going to replace them, but now i'm thinking i'll make some solid roofs for them to replaced the shredded fabric ones
11:46 AM roycroft: i can do that for half the settlement money or less
11:46 AM roycroft: and i won't have to worry about the gazebos being destroyed whenever it snows
11:54 AM roycroft: i don't feel bad about the settlement at all, btw - i told them how much i paid for the gazebos, and sent them pictures
11:54 AM roycroft: they're the ones who made the offer
12:02 PM perry_j1987: dunno roycroft sounds like a good business if you put fabric ones back up heh
12:03 PM roycroft: the problems with that are twofold:
12:03 PM roycroft: 1. the fabric tops usually last about 3-4 years, but the manufacturers only make replacement tops for a year or two before they come out with new models
12:04 PM roycroft: 2. it's a lot of work putting one of those things together, and it costs time and money to tear one down and take it to recycling
12:04 PM roycroft: i'd rather do a good fix to what i have and be done with it for a long time
12:04 PM roycroft: besides, my grill gazeo stands right next to the patio gazebo, but they both slope down at the edges
12:05 PM roycroft: so if it's raining, i have a line of water to walk through going from the patio gazebo to the grill gazbeo
12:05 PM roycroft: if i put a solid top on, i can frame so that it's one continuous roof
12:05 PM perry_j1987: aye
12:05 PM roycroft: as well
12:06 PM roycroft: the patio gazebo ends right at my patio door, again with a line of water to walk through
12:06 PM roycroft: i can raise that section slightly and extend it slightly so that it drains onto the house roof
12:06 PM roycroft: and all the drain water will go down the gutter, and not on my head
12:07 PM perry_j1987: that is important
12:07 PM roycroft: it would be nice
12:07 PM perry_j1987: I hate getting dropped on before entering buildings
12:07 PM perry_j1987: i like to plan my showers heh
12:07 PM roycroft: my napkin calculation says that i can do the framing for about $100 in materials, and the roofing panels would be about $300
12:08 PM roycroft: add $100 for miscellaneous, and it's a $500 job
12:08 PM roycroft: and will be a lot nicer than the fabric tops
12:08 PM perry_j1987: nice
12:08 PM perry_j1987: today i am finally sitting down to attempt to make some sheets that show all of my ops for making these parts. i ordered some dry erase transparent 8.5x11 pouches to put them in
12:08 PM roycroft: yeah, i'm going to go measure and do some cad work right after work today
12:09 PM perry_j1987: fusion 360 is nice for making line art for each stage
12:09 PM roycroft: that's a good idea
12:09 PM roycroft: i have a big laminator - i can do 12"x18" sheets in it
12:09 PM roycroft: i've laminated and used dry-erase markers on stuff
12:09 PM perry_j1987: some of the information points i want to add on these sheets are where 0.0 for the part is measured from when its flipped etc it changes
12:10 PM roycroft: but if you don't have a big laminator, the pouches would work great
12:10 PM roycroft: and they're reusable
12:10 PM perry_j1987: aye i got the pouches cause i figure i'll be changing and editing this a lot for a bit
12:10 PM roycroft: so they're better in a way
12:10 PM perry_j1987: once its solid i have a laminator i could use too
12:14 PM perry_j1987: i wish i had a way to do cam for 4th axis offset turning
12:20 PM perry_j1987: or eccentric mill turn might be better way to word it
01:51 PM gregcnc: 3 axis lathe?
01:56 PM XXCoder: some lathes have spindle as c
01:56 PM XXCoder: but dunno if that ones that type
01:57 PM gregcnc: anything with live tooling has a C axis
01:58 PM XXCoder: cool :)
02:41 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:43 PM unterhaus: I recently searched for drill bits on amazon and I'm never going to hear the end of it
02:43 PM unterhaus: they didn't pick up on the fact I was looking for a short length 3mm tap thread though
02:44 PM XXCoder: amazon searches do haunt you sometimes
02:44 PM XXCoder: so does clicking other people links
02:45 PM XXCoder: amazon messes with search results too, ignoring proper boolean search too
02:45 PM XXCoder: so it sucks now
02:45 PM XXCoder: phone case -iphone now results in lots of iphone results
02:46 PM gloops: estlcam was the cam/cad app Ichs used i think
02:51 PM XXCoder: yep
02:51 PM XXCoder: i tried it, not too bad, though owner sold it
02:52 PM XXCoder: on site: "(CNC gamepad control only available for 32 bit version - it will also work on 64 bit operating systems...)"
02:52 PM XXCoder: okay?
02:53 PM gloops: yeah, i never tried it but looks useful
02:53 PM XXCoder: anyway seems they are still updaing it
02:53 PM XXCoder: demo lasts forever
02:53 PM XXCoder: you could reset something forgot what
02:54 PM gloops: cant remember who was looking for CAM to try, might be worth looking at
02:57 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:58 PM XXCoder: wb
02:59 PM JT-Shop: rain killed my sat
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: I'm just going to work on writing 5-axis CAM
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: nothing off the shelf that even costs tons of $ does want I want anyway
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: I really don't like FreeCAD but it's the furthest along right now to build upon
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: adding a physics engine might be a good start to handle generating tool paths
03:52 PM JT-Shop: what is a physics engine?
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: https://projectchrono.org/ an example
03:55 PM CaptHindsight: it handles the interactions between objects
03:55 PM JT-Shop: interesting
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: a cutting tool and the material to be cut for CAM
03:57 PM CaptHindsight: in a video game it handles how a character would move through objects on the playing field
03:57 PM CaptHindsight: the interactions between objects, say a ball and a wall
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: for CAM it would keep the cutting tools and spindle from colliding with the workpiece and the machine itself
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: https://pybullet.org/wordpress/
04:03 PM JT-Shop: so you would have to model the machine and vise as well as the part?
04:03 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFXe7R_U4oM demo
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: you could go that far but you could start with just the cutting tools and the part
04:04 PM JT-Shop: ah no youtube during metered time
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: current CAM typically only works out paths to keep the tool from colliding with the part
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: possible tool paths for the tools
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: you also need to keep track of what has been cut vs what needs to be cut
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: so as the part opens up the tools can reach more areas
04:10 PM CaptHindsight: say you are going to cut two pockets side by side with a wall between them
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: the physics engine lets you know that you have to raise the cutting tool above the surface of the material when moving from one pocket to the next
04:13 PM CaptHindsight: it performs the computations to keep track of the cutting tools and the surfaces of the material
04:14 PM CaptHindsight: https://live.staticflickr.com/3715/10144384623_a2cfd3dc65_b.jpg
04:18 PM JT-Shop: that makes sense for 5 axis
04:19 PM JT-Shop: good example photo
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: a physics engine could also be used in LCNC to preflight a program and see if there are any collisions
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: ever use G28 and forget to move Z up out of the way first?
04:23 PM XXCoder: once started machine without rising z
04:23 PM XXCoder: it was hurco, so of course it doesnt rise spindle first
04:23 PM XXCoder: thankfully it went over block, straching heck out of it, but didnt break machine
04:23 PM XXCoder: then it lowered and cleaned straches out
04:23 PM JT-Shop: can't say I've ever used G28
04:24 PM JT-Shop: my DX32 control always moves the z up first and it's on a 386
04:24 PM XXCoder: hurco doesnt
04:24 PM * JT-Shop waddles to the other shop to bend some parts...
04:25 PM XXCoder: dont buy hurco unless you plan to throw away computer system and install linuxcnc
04:29 PM justan0theruser is now known as justanotheruser
04:35 PM gregcnc: curious. what does hurco have to do with the program that was written or the operator running it? how would linuxcnc be different?
04:37 PM XXCoder: greg how machine handles some stuff varies
04:38 PM XXCoder: ie older okuma would error if you do tool change from tool 1 to tool 1
04:38 PM roycroft: perhaps a difference in the gcode instructions that are supported, or a difference in the way they're executed
04:38 PM XXCoder: hurco does NOT home when you start machine
04:38 PM XXCoder: hurco DOES home if you press pause
04:38 PM XXCoder: (z home)
04:38 PM XXCoder: never pause if youre running saw tool
04:39 PM gregcnc: so the programmer left out a safe Z move or the operator forgot how the machine works?
04:39 PM XXCoder: dunno, its not operator thing however
04:39 PM XXCoder: operator does have to know to never pause while sawing, and ensure spindle is at safe spot before starting program
04:40 PM roycroft: it sounds more like a machine profile issue, which should be able to be fixed on the gcode generation device
04:40 PM XXCoder: how?
04:40 PM gregcnc: a feed hold causes z to return to home?
04:40 PM XXCoder: though maybe can use g28 on z if hurco supports g28
04:40 PM XXCoder: greg it does.
04:41 PM XXCoder: no other machine I ever ran does it
04:41 PM gregcnc: then the operator needs to know this
04:41 PM XXCoder: thats what i said yeah :)
04:41 PM gregcnc: you said it's not operator thing?
04:42 PM XXCoder: pause rising z to home? thats not operator thing, its done by machine
04:42 PM roycroft: it could be aruged that it's a machine design flaw
04:42 PM gregcnc: but their job to kno w how to operate the machine?
04:42 PM XXCoder: i'll never know why hurco made machines do that. roy yeah id say so
04:42 PM roycroft: but at the end of the day, if it can't be fixed, the operator needs to know about it
04:43 PM roycroft: and if the operator does not act accordingly it's on the operator
04:43 PM roycroft: if you know the machine is going to misbehave you can't act as though it shouldn't and then blame it when it does
04:43 PM roycroft: i think that's what gregcnc is getting at
04:43 PM XXCoder: yeah
04:44 PM gregcnc: i mean that should happen maybe once
04:44 PM roycroft: right
04:44 PM roycroft: then you learn
04:44 PM roycroft: or not
04:44 PM roycroft: but if you don't, you can't blame the machine
04:44 PM XXCoder: so far that company I worked for only had hurcos and very old machine
04:44 PM XXCoder: so it'd less chance of making mistake
04:46 PM XXCoder: recent one had many varies of machines, but nearly all uniform on how machine works
04:46 PM XXCoder: okuma and old fadal being exceptions
04:48 PM JT-Shop: XXCoder, any improvement on the job market in your area?
04:48 PM XXCoder: nope its harder now lol
04:48 PM XXCoder: there used to be many openings
04:48 PM XXCoder: now theres only a few
04:49 PM XXCoder: im thinking of getting into 3d printing "hobby biz"
04:49 PM XXCoder: so i can make some money extra
04:49 PM JT-Shop: wow that sucks on the job market
04:49 PM XXCoder: yeah
04:50 PM XXCoder: good that peoples getting hired though
04:50 PM XXCoder: lot people got hired last month
06:06 PM JT-Cave: lol 3 of the pullets are hem hawing around about going in the coop
06:07 PM XXCoder: lol
06:09 PM JT-Cave: some like to lay in the corner so I put some nest boxes in so anything different is scary
06:11 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Had a few interactions with the dev for the Bullet engine, really nice guy.
06:12 PM FinboySlick: That's what was used in the Blender game engine, I used it to simulate a mining robot.
06:22 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Giordano-CNC-router-motors/143970200186?
06:22 PM gloops: spindles, very cheap in uk
06:24 PM XXCoder: low price allright
08:40 PM internut: hi all (any?)
08:40 PM internut: I have a gcode question
08:40 PM XXCoder: hey any
08:41 PM internut: suppose I want to move my laser, give it a running start (to get up to speed), and then turn on for a bit and then turn off, and then decelerate
08:41 PM internut: I should be able to do that, right?
08:41 PM XXCoder: yah
08:41 PM XXCoder: just do a g1 move without fire
08:42 PM internut: doesn't the gcode interpreter (I'm using GRBL 0.9j) 'chain' them together
08:42 PM internut: ?
08:42 PM XXCoder: then turn on proper location, at end turn off, then stop after that
08:42 PM XXCoder: you can just edit file yourself
08:42 PM internut: so G1 M3 G1 M5 G1
08:42 PM internut: I'm already generating this code with Golang
08:42 PM CaptHindsight: what G- or M- code turns the laser On and OFF?
08:42 PM internut: M3 - on, M5 off
08:42 PM XXCoder: usually same as spindle cw or ccw
08:43 PM internut: the other thing that would be cool as heck
08:43 PM internut: would be varying the laser by speed
08:43 PM XXCoder: you could, but you'd need to make script
08:43 PM internut: but the laser is 0 - 1000
08:43 PM internut: and I'm using it at S2
08:44 PM CaptHindsight: so spindle speed is the laser power?
08:44 PM XXCoder: yeah
08:44 PM internut: so far that's the way I've made it work
08:44 PM XXCoder: most grbl is set like that, though theres some very strange hacky ones
08:44 PM internut: so, 'varying' the power is pretty coarse
08:45 PM XXCoder: my laser machien orginial grbl was strange
08:45 PM CaptHindsight: it's also non-linear
08:45 PM internut: yeah
08:45 PM CaptHindsight: laser power vs cutting depth or engraving
08:45 PM CaptHindsight: there have been several discussion on the forums about this
08:46 PM XXCoder: anyway you probably would need to make your post-processor to alter laser strength based on speed
08:46 PM CaptHindsight: pretty sure there is a HAL module to adjust laser power vs feed rate
08:46 PM internut: my laser is actually too powerful
08:46 PM internut: 600mW was the lowest I found
08:47 PM CaptHindsight: what wavelength?
08:47 PM internut: 405nm
08:47 PM XXCoder: you got goggles that have peak near 405nm block?
08:47 PM internut: haha ever see the video short called "405 the movie"?
08:47 PM internut: I do have goggles
08:48 PM internut: I'm pretty lasy about wearing them
08:48 PM XXCoder: its your eyes
08:48 PM internut: I do wear them when I've got my head worn magnifiers on
08:48 PM internut: like for focusing and stuff
08:53 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.forum.linuxcnc.org/10-advanced-configuration/38075-7i92-laser-power-velocity-controlled
08:55 PM CaptHindsight: it's similar with an airbrush https://imgur.com/C7rumNS
08:56 PM CaptHindsight: the slower the feedrate the more paint gets dumped
08:56 PM internut: So, I've been doing a little reading about the photosensitive film I'm using
08:57 PM internut: and it can be used on thin aluminum to dissolve the aluminum selectively
08:58 PM internut: and then it comes off chemically
08:58 PM internut: so you can make aluminum stencils and such
08:59 PM internut: with really fine detail
08:59 PM internut: it's an art project
09:00 PM XXCoder: nice
09:00 PM internut: also, still fiddling around with the PCBs
09:01 PM internut: I made a snoot for my laser to try to reduce the off axis light
09:02 PM internut: I'm trying different apertures right up against the work
09:02 PM CaptHindsight: which photoresist are you using?
09:03 PM internut: Something from amazon
09:04 PM internut: looking
09:04 PM internut: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PMJJK2D
09:04 PM internut: Brand: VANTIYAUS
09:05 PM internut: overall it's about 3.5 thou thick
09:05 PM internut: but it's got plastic on both sides of the resin
09:06 PM internut: my caliper said '.0005' so, it's between 0-1
09:07 PM CaptHindsight: I make my own resists
09:07 PM internut: I need a microscope to get the first protective layer off
09:07 PM internut: ?
09:07 PM CaptHindsight: how does that film work, the areas exposed act as an etch resist
09:07 PM internut: yes
09:07 PM internut: it's like an epoxy polymer
09:07 PM internut: UV light cures
09:08 PM XXCoder: nice
09:08 PM CaptHindsight: ok so it's an acrylated epoxy
09:08 PM XXCoder: i want to try that, but need uv laser
09:08 PM internut: you wash it in sodium carbonate
09:08 PM internut: and water
09:08 PM internut: and the unexposed areas wash away
09:09 PM internut: then (I've heard) it's good to make sure it's exposed the rest of the way and (maybe) good to run through the laminator again
09:09 PM internut: before etching
09:09 PM internut: Haven't gotten that far yet
09:09 PM XXCoder: that'd need repeatable hold?
09:10 PM internut: Huh?
09:10 PM internut: oh
09:10 PM XXCoder: if you remove it to wash
09:10 PM CaptHindsight: I use them in liquid form, coat the board, expose, rinse with water or solvent
09:11 PM internut: so, UV laser isn't needed
09:11 PM internut: I'm using a 405nm
09:11 PM XXCoder: i suppose since rest is removed you can just use uv lught
09:11 PM XXCoder: or just 405nm light lolo
09:13 PM internut: so, I think I can get better results with better gcode
09:13 PM internut: I need to work on that a bit
09:13 PM XXCoder: yep! i used laserweb initially, but found that cam found in inkscape is way better
09:14 PM internut: I haven't gotten too far with inkscape
09:14 PM internut: ah, latest attempt just finished
09:15 PM internut: actually
09:16 PM internut: it didn't
09:16 PM internut: the thing 'stalls' sometimes
09:16 PM internut: UGS -> GRBL
09:16 PM XXCoder: grbl is not cam
09:16 PM internut: I'm using UGS to send gcode to the arduino (GRBL)
09:17 PM XXCoder: ahh ok
09:17 PM internut: I wrote the program that generated the gcode
09:17 PM XXCoder: whats your machine like?
09:17 PM internut: $135
09:17 PM XXCoder: because im wondering if your machine can have even high acceration
09:18 PM internut: they left no corner uncut
09:18 PM XXCoder: mine was even cheaper
09:18 PM XXCoder: i could bump acceration by pretty lot
09:18 PM XXCoder: if I secured it down, it'd be able to have even more acceration
09:26 PM internut: I can live without acceleration
09:27 PM XXCoder: it changes a LOT
09:27 PM internut: What I'll try next is, only running the laser when it's moving at a certain speed
09:27 PM XXCoder: it prevents moving too slowly on short segements
09:27 PM internut: BTW, the board I just made still has some 'fogging'
09:30 PM internut: I'm drawing these tiny features, a few mm across, so, it's never really moving very fast
09:30 PM internut: If I give it a little head start before turning on the laser, there'll be better control
09:31 PM internut: I can get an acceleration parameter out of the GRBL interp
09:35 PM XXCoder: cool :)
09:37 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:44 PM internut: So, just trying it with hand gcode
09:45 PM internut: I do 3 G1s in a row with the laser controls bracketing the middle G1
09:45 PM internut: and it stops between G1s
09:45 PM internut: G1X3 M3S100 G1X6 M5 G1X10
09:53 PM internut: do I need to turn any of this on:
09:53 PM internut: G08 Ramping function at block transition / Look ahead “off”
09:53 PM internut: G09 No ramping function at block transition / Look ahead “on”
09:53 PM internut: G10 Stop dynamic block preprocessing
09:53 PM internut: G11 Stop interpolation during block preprocessing
09:59 PM internut: I think the version of GRBL I'm using is feeble
10:03 PM XXCoder: and oooold
10:03 PM XXCoder: if you can extract it, you can then try build latest for it
10:08 PM internut: 'extract'?
10:08 PM XXCoder: backup old firmware gbrk
10:09 PM internut: yes!
10:09 PM internut: That's definitely what I want to do
10:09 PM internut: :)
10:09 PM internut: any thoughts on a good tool for that?
10:09 PM XXCoder: no idea unfortunately
10:16 PM internut: So, the answer appears to be, build a new controller
10:16 PM internut: or, if I buy the older style motor wires, I have a CNC controller I could use
10:19 PM internut: Looks like it's got spindle enable and spindle direction outputs
10:19 PM internut: but not high current
10:20 PM XXCoder: if it has volt range output, thn you can connect it to relay
10:20 PM XXCoder: im sure theres better ways though
10:28 PM internut: well, found one for $10
10:28 PM XXCoder: link?
10:29 PM internut: https://www.sainsmart.com
10:30 PM internut: $10 for shipping
10:30 PM XXCoder: relay?
10:30 PM internut: no, I'm going to buy a new controller board
10:30 PM internut: I can leave the one that works as is
10:31 PM internut: I'm actually getting 2
10:31 PM internut: actually, I need to make sure of something before I pull the trigger
10:32 PM internut: https://www.sainsmart.com/collections/genmitsu-cnc-replacement-upgrade-parts/products/open-box-3-axis-grbl-usb-driver-controller-board
10:32 PM internut: it's got the spindle drivers on the board
10:33 PM XXCoder: wow its pretty cheap
10:33 PM XXCoder: it has laser and ttl
10:33 PM XXCoder: 4 left in stock
10:33 PM internut: and it comes with the stepper motor drivers
10:34 PM internut: not in a minute
10:34 PM internut: :)
10:36 PM XXCoder: lol
10:37 PM internut: okay
10:37 PM XXCoder: im considering buying one too but dunno
10:37 PM internut: well, they're on their way
10:39 PM XXCoder: https://www.sainsmart.com/collections/3d-printing-accessories/products/evaccum-vacuum-sealed-bags-filament-storage-kit
10:39 PM XXCoder: not bad
10:40 PM XXCoder: i need em now, i have way too many fila to use box system
10:41 PM XXCoder: aaaand its sold out...
10:49 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84310-w#additional-information
10:49 PM CaptHindsight: 2000 year old astronomical calculator
10:50 PM XXCoder: thats cool
10:50 PM XXCoder: you been following clickspring?
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: nope
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: boring
10:58 PM XXCoder: ohh too bad. yeah he does some bores
10:58 PM XXCoder: ;)
10:58 PM CaptHindsight: it's like watching someone eat a bowl of soup
11:15 PM XXCoder: yo