#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 22 2021

01:10 AM Deejay: moin
02:55 AM XXCoder: making worm gear. interesting https://youtu.be/ZIOn6w7gwWU
05:35 AM Tom_L: morning
05:36 AM XXCoder: yo
06:40 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:41 AM XXCoder: yo
07:45 AM JT-Cave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-umcQtrn1CQ
08:44 AM enleth: veegee: induction heating can be targeted precisely and shielded against, so it's an option
08:44 AM enleth: but it's more likely to be some old timers' low tech trick
10:15 AM roycroft: well i'm done with work for the day
10:15 AM roycroft: that's nice :)
10:35 AM miss0r: I just combined one working and one defect deublin high pressure adaptor into one working :) that's nice too :D
10:37 AM rs[m]: why would you do that
10:38 AM miss0r: initally I was going to take the new one apart to grind down the shoulder behind the lefthand thread, to make it fit this particular application. But it turned out I was not able to do that as delicately as I would've wanted. (the lapped ceramic plates are realy touchy)
10:38 AM miss0r: I also had the old one with me, to replicate the shoulder dimentions.
10:39 AM miss0r: luckily for me the ceramic surface on the spinning part(the one I would have to replicate) was flawless. So I managed to combine the two to get a fitting working unit
10:40 AM rs[m]: I don't understand, i would have just left the working one alone I guess...
10:40 AM miss0r: and now here I am, having combined one working and one defect into one working :)
10:40 AM miss0r: well. the working one would not have fit the application
10:40 AM rs[m]: ah ok that makes more sense...
10:41 AM miss0r: I hope so :) I felt it did :D
11:09 AM roycroft: i have decided to stick with the 4-40 screws, even though i hate tapping holes that small
11:45 AM roycroft: and i broke a tap on the last hole
11:45 AM roycroft: which is why i don't like tapping 4-40 holes
11:46 AM roycroft: i guess that was a good practice part
11:46 AM roycroft: but stubbornly and perhaps foolishly i'm going to try making it again with 4-40 screws, if i can find some taps
12:13 PM JT-Cave: what material?
12:14 PM Tom_L: steel
12:14 PM Tom_L: you gonna try hobbing some gears?
12:14 PM JT-Cave: no, it came up when I viewed XXCoder link
12:37 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/reprap/drive5.jpg
12:39 PM Tom_L: did those with a tap
12:41 PM Tom_L: pretty much the same way
01:31 PM roycroft: fortunately the second round of tapping worked out fine
01:32 PM veegee: enleth oh right I didn't even think of induction heating
01:32 PM roycroft: the real problem is that i have no local source for decent taps, and end up having to use crappy home center plug taps
01:32 PM veegee: that makes sense
01:32 PM roycroft: i really should order some good ones, especially some starter taps, and then i don't think i'll have so much trouble with tapping small holes
01:39 PM Tom_L: or get a set of spiral flute taps in preparation for your cnc
01:40 PM roycroft: which also cannot be sourced locally, but yes
01:44 PM miss0r: roycroft: what is a 4-40 thread?
01:44 PM miss0r: does the latter mean sime TPI?
01:44 PM miss0r: in which case, what is the first? :D
01:46 PM miss0r: I've just googled id.. #4 size.. is that a predefined scale? (Imperial sizes realy messes me yup ;D)
01:49 PM roycroft: yes, it's #4 screw, with 40 tpi
01:49 PM roycroft: it's small, that's enough to know :)
01:49 PM roycroft: #6-32 holes are the smallest i can reliably tap i steel with the crappy taps i can get locally without breaking taps all the time
01:52 PM miss0r: get an EDM with a rotary head like me
01:52 PM miss0r: not that I have ever made more than two threads with it. Its knowing you can that counts :D
01:53 PM enleth: veegee: come to think of it, it's only the initial heat for hardening that needs to be localized, tempering is an idempotent operation if you excuse a bit of mathematical lingo
01:54 PM enleth: as in, you can repeat it at the same temperature with little effect on already tempered material
01:55 PM enleth: so you can probably get it done with a handheld torch
02:17 PM CaptHindsight: looks safe :) https://youtu.be/UIwdCN4dV6w?t=375
02:57 PM JT-Shop: FedSex just delivered so now waiting on UPS...
02:58 PM roycroft: fedex showed up here today, too
02:58 PM roycroft: they brought my sander edge guide
02:58 PM roycroft: i'm going to go test it shortly, and if it works as advertised, the 6x80 edge sander gets posted to cl
02:58 PM roycroft: and i get real estate back :)
02:59 PM roycroft: i need to move my lathe, too
02:59 PM roycroft: and then relevel it
03:00 PM roycroft: then i'll have access to the left end of my workbench
03:23 PM veegee: enleth that's what I thought about tempering too. It's the temperature that's the critical thing right?
03:23 PM veegee: So they just have to first induction heat that link and quench it
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: might be an idea https://youtu.be/vOmclw-3EqE?t=36
03:34 PM roycroft: and the edge guide works brilliantly
03:34 PM roycroft: edge sanding is not nearly as fast as with the 6x80 sander, but i have a jointer for stock removal
03:35 PM roycroft: the edge is dead square, as straight as my straightedge, and the finish is glass smooth
03:46 PM JT-Shop: nice
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.imec-int.com/en/imec-magazine/imec-magazine-september-2019/no-heat-no-laser-no-powder-fabric8labs-reinvents-3d-metal-printing
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: uses an digitally controlled electrode array to electroform metal parts
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: decent build rates
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: so it's like LCD or DLP printing with an array to print a layer at a time but
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: only using electrochemistry to deposit metals vs cure a resin
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: almost 40F today, the deep freeze is over!
04:02 PM veegee: CaptHindsight that is very cool. I have to come up with some mechanism to strengthen some of the parts I'm making
04:03 PM veegee: I think I need to bite the bullet and just get an oven of some sort that I can modify with precise temperature control for powder coating, heat treating, etc.
04:11 PM Tom_L: 61F
04:15 PM JT-Shop: UPS came so I guess I need to pay the bill
04:16 PM JT-Shop: 55f
04:16 PM JT-Shop: I keep getting a drop down saying I must log into the network before I can get internet in firefox...
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: maybe 2 ovens, a big one for powder coats, smaller for heat treating
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: the temps are different
04:21 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, still on restricted data?
04:21 PM JT-Shop: till next month... seems it's a firefox setting
04:22 PM Tom_L: never seen that
04:22 PM JT-Shop: just got my package that was supposed to have a can of Tried and True Varnish Oil and it has a can of Dye Stain...
04:22 PM Tom_L: :/
04:34 PM roycroft: that sucks
04:35 PM roycroft: i mean, their dye stains are great, but it's not what you need right now
04:50 PM JT-Shop: General Finish Dye Stain Light Brown
04:52 PM JT-Shop: any how the other box was full of Mesa cards so I'm stocked up again
04:52 PM Tom_L: much better present
04:54 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, you know a good source for brass barstock? that's one thing that's lacking around here
04:54 PM veegee: Cutting up an old car tire, good for using as a web sling wear pad to protect against sharp corners?
04:54 PM Tom_L: there is one place down south that may stock it
04:55 PM Tom_L: didn't really want a 12' bar though
04:56 PM roycroft: coyote steel here in eugene are a great place to get brass, but they don't ship afaik
04:59 PM Tom_L: 12" $73
05:02 PM Tom_L: 36" $218 no thanks
05:03 PM XXCoder: interesting https://youtu.be/mqSQhwqSzvg
05:03 PM Tom_L: i can get a 12' bar for $433
05:03 PM XXCoder: guy works around cheap ballsxrews wobbling by design
05:07 PM Tom_L: hah they want $500 to ship it
05:55 PM JT-Cave: Tom_L, not bought much brass bar stock
05:56 PM Tom_L: i found my old metals catalog but i'm not sure they're even around anymore
05:57 PM Tom_L: vincent brass and aluminum company or vincent metals or vincent brass
05:57 PM Tom_L: they have a website but don't show any brass now
05:58 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure i'll need it yet
06:05 PM JT-Cave: I think what little brass or bronze I've ordered came from mcmaster
06:06 PM Tom_L: there's a couple pieces on ebay
06:07 PM JT-Cave: there's a place in St. Louis that my buddy used to get round bars from cheap... wonder if they have brass
06:08 PM Tom_L: there might be one here, i just haven't bothered to look yet. they'd want full bars though
06:09 PM JT-Cave: no, they have drops from industry
06:09 PM XXCoder: no place to buy cutoffs in sizes you want?
06:09 PM JT-Cave: https://www.shapirosupply.com/
06:09 PM Tom_L: probably
06:09 PM JT-Cave: might be them
06:10 PM Tom_L: 1.5" hex
06:10 PM Tom_L: ^^ they don't have any
06:10 PM XXCoder: looked around. out of stock of basuically all?
06:11 PM Tom_L: it's not a big deal yet
06:11 PM XXCoder: they do have copper stuff
06:11 PM Tom_L: no thanks :)
06:12 PM Tom_L: probably costs alot more and hell to machine
06:12 PM JT-Cave: just send a text to my buddy that got the round bars in St. Louis
06:13 PM XXCoder: never machined copper myself, though then I dont program stuff I just setup and run stuff
06:13 PM Tom_L: that test cap i made, the guy may want a few more. i dunno yet
06:13 PM Tom_L: just doing some homework right now
06:13 PM Tom_L: i could get 9 from a 12" bar i think
06:14 PM JT-Cave: https://www.mcmaster.com/metals/copper-brass-and-bronze/shape~hex-bar/width~1-1-2/
06:14 PM unterhaus_: typical 3d printer solution, don't follow standard practice, use magnets
06:15 PM Tom_L: that's inline with the other piece i found
06:15 PM Tom_L: they offered free shipping
06:15 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-1-2-C360-BRASS-HEX-BAR-12-long-New-Lathe-Bar-Stock-1-50-Hex-1-2-Hard/352364633527?hash=item520a919db7:g:PPEAAOSwTFhbCJvl
06:16 PM roycroft: i love the look of copper, but i hate working with it
06:16 PM Tom_L: too stringy
06:16 PM roycroft: if i would grind my tooling with a fair amount of negative rake copper might not be so bad to deal with
06:17 PM Tom_L: brass grabs too but it machines ok
06:17 PM roycroft: but i don't work with it often enough to justify special tooling for it, and i can't be bothered to regrind every time i deal with copper
06:17 PM roycroft: yeah, but brass isn't as bad as copper
06:17 PM Tom_L: nope
06:17 PM roycroft: it's still not fun, but i don't mind it nearly as much as copper
06:19 PM roycroft: i went to get my filler piece for my bandsaw lathe out of the fabrication shop and found that it had fallen off its support pyramid onto the paper underneath it, and now has paper stuck to one side
06:19 PM roycroft: so i guess that means a couple days before i can do final assembly of the fence
06:19 PM roycroft: it's so frustrating when tiny little things like that push the schedule back by so much
06:20 PM roycroft: but it will be a couple days before the riser block for the saw is ready to install, so in the grand scheme of things it's not going to matter too much
06:20 PM roycroft: i just wanted the fence to be completely done
06:21 PM XXCoder: unterhaus_: yeah it works for 3d printing but definitely dont do for milling machine!
06:21 PM XXCoder: how would you do anti-wobbling though?
06:21 PM unterhaus_: flexures
06:22 PM unterhaus_: people use ballscrews in high precision machines. You need thrust and anti-windup
06:22 PM unterhaus_: all other motion has to be allowed
06:23 PM XXCoder: i am not familiar with either anti-windup?
06:23 PM roycroft: i'm odd - i like making task lists and checking items off the list
06:25 PM XXCoder: i guess "thrust" you mean force to move
06:25 PM * JT-Cave doesn't wear a watch or have a schedule
06:25 PM roycroft: i don't wear a watch, but i do have a good sense of time
06:26 PM JT-Cave: I have a good sense of time
06:26 PM roycroft: not having a schedule would be nice, but i don't see that happening any time soon
06:27 PM JT-Cave: when I'm asked how long it will take to design and build a machine I say when I'm done I'll tell you
06:28 PM JT-Cave: not being sarcastic just I don't kill myself to meet a schedule... I work hard at it but at quitting time I'm done for the day
06:28 PM roycroft: must be nice
06:28 PM JT-Cave: at my age you can
06:28 PM roycroft: i've done a fair amount of project management - i don't have the luxury of not planning things carefully
06:28 PM XXCoder: high expert level high demend
06:29 PM Tom_L: pays to be your own boss too
06:29 PM roycroft: yes
06:29 PM JT-Cave: aye
06:29 PM Tom_L: i've tried to get fired several times
06:29 PM JT-Cave: and pays to not have to work if you don't want to
06:29 PM JT-Cave: what happened?
06:30 PM Tom_L: i just couldn't convince myself
06:30 PM JT-Cave: LOL
06:30 PM Tom_L: i'm self employed too :)
06:30 PM XXCoder: lol
06:30 PM JT-Cave: when I finished the range I told the owner the price went up by $100 per lane because I worked all weekend to get you open
06:31 PM JT-Cave: he didn't blink, just wrote me the check
06:31 PM Tom_L: yeah well where else could he get it done as quick....
06:31 PM JT-Cave: no where
06:32 PM Tom_L: i did some software for a company and expected a couple tweaks
06:32 PM JT-Cave: if it was a corporation the price would have been triple
06:32 PM Tom_L: when they started making change after change i sent them a bill and the changes went away rather quick
06:32 PM JT-Cave: yep
06:33 PM JT-Cave: time for chow here see you in the am
06:33 PM Tom_L: later
06:35 PM XXCoder: later jt
06:50 PM XXCoder: this might be good video https://youtu.be/MN3ABta4sDg
06:50 PM Tom_L: lemme know if it is
06:50 PM XXCoder: its about windup error
06:51 PM XXCoder: hich is not backlash
06:52 PM XXCoder: he also teaches about backlash but that area I am familiar
06:56 PM XXCoder: hm doesnt explain how to do anti-windup
06:56 PM XXCoder: its great intro, but..
07:00 PM XXCoder: unterhaus_: how do precision machines deal with ballscrew wobbling? I know they use MUCH higher quality ballscrews but im sure it still exists?
07:01 PM unterhaus_: his anti-windup was done with more magnets
07:01 PM Tom_L: the ballscrew on my bud's machine is ~3"
07:01 PM Tom_L: not much wobble on that
07:01 PM unterhaus_: depending on the application, even the best ballscrews have a lot of wobble
07:01 PM XXCoder: tom yeah high end machines tend to have that. just wondering how they deal with what little that does exist
07:02 PM unterhaus_: flexures
07:02 PM unterhaus_: a blade flexure does most of the work for thruat
07:02 PM XXCoder: machines i used to run on a61 has .00001" precision sensors (its rated for .0001" movements)
07:02 PM XXCoder: got any good video on that?
07:02 PM XXCoder: very curioius
07:03 PM unterhaus_: I doubt it
07:03 PM XXCoder: hmm too bad. maybe you can make one ;)
07:04 PM unterhaus_: once I 3d print one
07:07 PM XXCoder: cool :)
09:43 PM veegee: What's the purpose of concrete floor enamel?
09:44 PM veegee: It's not like the enamel is harder than the concrete itself
09:44 PM XXCoder: it seals off concete and makes it resistant to chemicals that would affect it
09:44 PM Tom_L: epoxy
09:44 PM Tom_L: acid etch first
09:44 PM Tom_L: seals the concrete
09:45 PM XXCoder: we are considering redoing basement floors as hard rubber type floor planks dont work as concerete is too curved
09:45 PM XXCoder: any way to level it?
09:45 PM Tom_L: have it ground flat
09:45 PM Tom_L: or diy
09:45 PM XXCoder: how much would it cost?
09:46 PM Tom_L: no idea
09:46 PM XXCoder: hmm ok
09:46 PM veegee: Speaking of acid, I've begun using sulfuric acid as a general purpose cleaner
09:46 PM veegee: Nothing else gets utility sinks, greasy buckets, etc. clean as new
09:46 PM veegee: Well either sulfuric acid or sodium hydroxide
09:46 PM XXCoder: doesnt that affect pipes?
09:46 PM Tom_L: kinda harsh
09:47 PM veegee: XXCoder both are used as a drain cleaner
09:47 PM XXCoder: ah
09:47 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, he don't care he was building gas chambers yesterday
09:47 PM veegee: most drain cleaners are just NaOH
09:47 PM veegee: Tom_L LOL
09:47 PM veegee: that only applies for taking out greedy rich fuckers
09:48 PM veegee: It kills me inside every time I see suffering due to inequality. It's not just about inferior/low IQ humans - these people just didn't take advantage of other people and are suffering because of it
09:48 PM roycroft: you can get floor leveling cement
09:48 PM Tom_L: it works so so
09:49 PM roycroft: it will adhere to your existing concrete floor, and it is self-leveling
09:49 PM roycroft: i've used it a number of times over the years
09:49 PM Tom_L: for XXCoder or veegee ?
09:49 PM veegee: Yeah I need that too. There's an area on the floor that's way too pitted. The holes are too small and numerous for concrete patching cement
09:49 PM Tom_L: for residential it might be ok
09:49 PM Tom_L: not for commercial
09:49 PM roycroft: sounds like for both
09:49 PM veegee: I think it'll be fine for my industrial unit too
09:50 PM roycroft: it's not a finished floor product
09:50 PM veegee: The pits are less than 3mm deep
09:50 PM XXCoder: veegee: yeah? its for my home not shop
09:50 PM roycroft: it's used to level a floor before installing another product on top of it
09:50 PM XXCoder: we was thinking just get it bare, acid etch and just protect it, but that wouldnt fix level stuff
09:50 PM XXCoder: its 80 year old concerete floor
09:51 PM roycroft: i've put linoleum on top of it, and ceramic floor tile as well
09:51 PM roycroft: both worked out fine
09:52 PM roycroft: other than that there was still concrete under the finished flooring
09:52 PM * roycroft really really dislikes concrete floors
09:53 PM Tom_L: stress cracks cut not trowled and polished smooth would be a nice work shop
09:53 PM Tom_L: with a coat of epoxy
10:05 PM enleth: veegee: in fact, repeated trmpering even at the same final tempeeature can be beneficial
10:05 PM veegee: Did not know that
10:08 PM enleth: looo up double-tempering
10:08 PM enleth: *look
10:09 PM enleth: some of it is just about making sure the job was done right even if the first time was too short to get a consistent heat
10:10 PM Tom_L: enleth, at different temperatures?
10:10 PM enleth: some of it is actually structural changes that would not happen on the first temper
10:10 PM Tom_L: i've heard of it but know little about it
10:10 PM enleth: Tom_L: or even at the same
10:11 PM Tom_L: so what is it when the article is wrapped in a foil?
10:11 PM Tom_L: like ss foil
10:11 PM enleth: oxygen bartier
10:11 PM enleth: *barrier
10:11 PM Tom_L: hmm
10:11 PM enleth: less scale, less surface erosion
10:12 PM enleth: easier time grinding to dimension
10:12 PM Tom_L: does the foil type affect the tempering?
10:12 PM enleth: no idea
10:12 PM Tom_L: me either
10:13 PM enleth: if you're re-hardening a piece that is already at final size after softening it to work on it, you pretty much must use foil
10:13 PM Tom_L: i wondered if molecules transferred during the heating process...
10:13 PM Tom_L: i never got into that much
10:13 PM enleth: or you'll lose surface material to scale
10:14 PM Tom_L: yeah
10:14 PM enleth: or an inert gas filled furnace
10:28 PM veegee: https://www.princessauto.com/en/660-1320-lb-electric-cable-hoist/product/PA0008873226
10:28 PM veegee: reasonable price yeah?
10:28 PM veegee: I just want something to mount on my gantry crane
10:30 PM Tom_L: isn't that like the harbor freight of canada?
10:34 PM veegee: yes
10:34 PM veegee: outstanding return policy
10:35 PM veegee: the power fist brand is the shitty brand, but it's good for some things
10:35 PM XXCoder: i'd derate it some
10:39 PM enleth: oh yeah, AvE's favorite, the power fister
10:40 PM veegee: indeed
10:40 PM veegee: I love that he's Canadian
10:41 PM veegee: the random rants in french are hilarious
10:42 PM veegee: I think I'll just mount a motor to my lever chain hoist
10:42 PM veegee: I'll get proper speed control that way as well
11:06 PM XXCoder: wut https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585678027174707230/813625232623272006/image.png
11:09 PM skunkworks: Thohttps://youtu.be/VK4zgFTD2SA
11:09 PM skunkworks: https://youtu.be/VK4zgFTD2SA
11:09 PM XXCoder: 3d printed plasric?
11:09 PM skunkworks: yes
11:09 PM XXCoder: whoa
11:09 PM XXCoder: spinny
11:10 PM XXCoder: very precise?
11:10 PM skunkworks: don't know yet.
11:11 PM skunkworks: Soon grasshopper... Soon
11:11 PM XXCoder: I wonder how much backlash there is too
11:11 PM skunkworks: once I finish up the frame - I will be able to test it better
11:11 PM skunkworks: it 'feels' good though
11:12 PM XXCoder: it looks cool and very workable
11:12 PM XXCoder: it does deform correct? so it means evenually it would break?
11:12 PM XXCoder: or is alum flexable enough to last for long while even with that?
11:12 PM skunkworks: I don't know - It isn't 'deforming' much. And it is only in one dimention - unlike the cup version.
11:13 PM XXCoder: it seems to me that its never "unlocked" at any point
11:13 PM XXCoder: so it would be "locked" even as it rotates
11:13 PM XXCoder: so it would be holding pretty rigidly
11:13 PM skunkworks: right.
11:14 PM skunkworks: it always has maybe 40ish% teeth engauged..
11:14 PM skunkworks: 30ish?
11:14 PM XXCoder: amazing indeed
11:14 PM skunkworks: time will tell.
11:14 PM XXCoder: yeah