#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 17 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:30 AM Deejay: moin
04:26 AM Tom_L: morning
04:33 AM Tom_L: mmm heatwave, 14F
04:33 AM XXCoder: hot.
04:34 AM XXCoder: im living here along lava at 40f
04:34 AM XXCoder: 47f actually
04:34 AM Loetmichel: hehe, 53F here
04:34 AM Loetmichel: outside
04:35 AM XXCoder: looks like its starting late winter weather pattern here
04:35 AM XXCoder: which means if its not raining, its showering, if not showering, its raining
04:39 AM Loetmichel: as my ex boss said to some british guests once: "What rain? that is just high air humidity"... it was pouring cats and dogs outside ;)
04:39 AM XXCoder: >100% humidity is high humidity indeed heh
04:40 AM Loetmichel: i used to live in a region in germany that was known to have the most rain days in a year in europe
04:40 AM Loetmichel: ... you'll get used to it eventually.
04:41 AM XXCoder: getting used to it lol
04:41 AM XXCoder: i live here for years now
04:41 AM Loetmichel: there were rumors that the region citizens were born with webbing between their fingers ;)
08:38 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:38 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:22 AM bjorkintosh: 53F? Is it summer already?
09:40 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:11 AM roycroft: that's just normal february weather, bjorkintosh
10:12 AM roycroft: but to answer your direct question, it's summer in new zealand, so yes
10:12 AM bjorkintosh: ah. opposite-land.
10:13 AM internut: so, I installed the linuxcnc image
10:13 AM internut: all was working
10:13 AM internut: it did it's updates
10:13 AM internut: now there's no keyboard/mouse
10:17 AM internut: and it seems that ssh is disabled
10:18 AM JT-Shop: ssh server is not normally installed with a fresh install
10:18 AM JT-Shop: and if you updated the OS you no longer have a real time kernel
10:19 AM internut: hmmm
10:19 AM internut: so, after I burn the image (from http://linuxcnc.org/downloads/ ) I should decline to run the update
10:19 AM internut: ?
10:21 AM JT-Shop: GLUing a cut closed
10:21 AM JT-Shop: you can update everything BUT the OS
10:24 AM internut: okay, I'll try that
10:50 AM satiowadahc: Is anyone able to help with setting up absolute commanding positions on servo drives? Converting from MESA to ethercat has been fun
10:51 AM satiowadahc: Have an issue where we can only send small positions updates or small jog increments < 0.2" or the drive faults
10:56 AM internut: Will linuxcnc work without the realtime extensions being installed?
10:56 AM internut: (albeit perhaps not as well)
10:57 AM roycroft: in demo mode, sure
10:59 AM satiowadahc: You can run it but you have to increase all thread timers to way higher
11:00 AM satiowadahc: like 400ms vs 1ms
11:01 AM satiowadahc: and lots of hiccups seem to happen. Found that out when 5.8 kernel update nuked my 5.4RT kernel. Couldn't figure out why it kept crashing
11:01 AM internut: so, I intend to be talking to a grbl interface which has it's own buffering
11:02 AM internut: from a Pi that has nothing else to do
11:02 AM internut: is this going to work?
11:02 AM internut: (I'm going to try it)
11:03 AM internut: what is 'demo mode'?
11:09 AM JT-Shop: simulation only, no hardware
11:16 AM internut: So, I just went back to the image and skipped the update
11:16 AM internut: so I am running the RT kernel
11:21 AM internut: is there a good starter configuration for a CNC 3018?
11:22 AM JT-Shop: for the parallel port use the stepconf tool to build your configuration or search the internet
11:23 AM rs[m]: internut: linuxcnc will not work with grbl
11:23 AM internut: I'm getting that impression
11:24 AM JT-Shop: oh it's a gerbill
11:24 AM rs[m]: internut: how do you communicate with gbrl?
11:25 AM roycroft: linuxcnc will also not work with hmstrs
11:25 AM internut: I have a 3D printer, I have a nice little proggie on a Raspberry Pi that exposes a web interface, let's me upload gcode, and print
11:25 AM internut: I was hoping I'd found the same for CNC milling
11:26 AM rs[m]: internut: you want to look for g-code-sender
11:26 AM internut: I'd also like some visualization tools
11:26 AM rs[m]: internut: or if you want to use linuxcnc, you will have to develop your own firmware for the grbl-board
11:27 AM internut: suppose I were to do that, what advantage does linuxcnc offer?
11:28 AM internut: Am I missing out on something?
11:28 AM rs[m]: i don't really know grbl, but linuxcnc is more or less a "real" machine controller
11:28 AM rs[m]: you can attach tool changers
11:28 AM rs[m]: use builtin soft-plx
11:28 AM rs[m]: plc
11:28 AM rs[m]: run really huge programs
11:29 AM rs[m]: including preview
11:29 AM internut: Well, I'm not buying a Bridgeport any time soon :)
11:29 AM rs[m]: canned cycles
11:29 AM rs[m]: lathe mode
11:29 AM rs[m]: 9 axes
11:29 AM JT-Shop: just get some cheap stepper drives
11:29 AM internut: okay, so, this isn't really the tool I was looking for
11:29 AM internut: thanks though, everybody has been very friendly and helpful
11:30 AM JT-Shop: never was advertised to be that tool you were looking for
11:30 AM rs[m]: otoh, grbl, esp. the atmega-versions, are really "on the edge" of what is possible on such a processor and have to compromise a lot to be possible at all
11:31 AM internut: In the early 90s I worked on a 30 million dollar supercomputer that would be smoked by a raspberry pi
11:32 AM rs[m]: and of course you can use closed-loop positioning, i think grbl is limited to stepper motors and is inherently open loop
11:32 AM internut: I'm not sure about that
11:33 AM rs[m]: internut: i took a mathematica course on university in early 90s on a "huge" HP/UX with unimaginable 786mb of ram and 4 cores
11:33 AM internut: well, I'm an old timer
11:33 AM internut: my first paid programming work was on a 1MHz 8080 in 1981
11:34 AM internut: in assembler
11:36 AM satiowadahc: I know programmers now who refuse to use atmega328's because they're not powerful enough
11:36 AM satiowadahc: (when simply reading sensors)
11:37 AM internut: well it would depend on how they're programming it
11:38 AM satiowadahc: Way to many people going with circuit python which is severly bloated
11:38 AM internut: the atmega is hella powerful in MIPS
11:38 AM internut: but it's not enough to run a 'real' OS
11:39 AM internut: mainly because of no virtual memory
11:39 AM internut: (I don't know the architecture really well)
11:40 AM internut: but if you're willing to spend a lot of time programming it, it should be able to run even one of your big machines
11:40 AM internut: like at the C/RTOS level
11:47 AM * JT-Shop should edit the download page say does not support gerbils
11:48 AM JT-Shop: I think this has come up before...
11:48 AM satiowadahc: Once or twice
11:49 AM JT-Shop: is grbl what printers use?
11:50 AM JT-Shop: or is that something else?
11:51 AM satiowadahc: or arduino based cnc routers
11:51 AM internut: that ^^^^
11:51 AM internut: is what I have
11:52 AM satiowadahc: internut check out mesa cards, you can replace your grbl controller with one
11:52 AM satiowadahc: they even have a little hat for a pi
11:53 AM internut: what advantage would I get from that?
11:54 AM rs[m]: floating point on atmega is really slow, that severly limits what kind of machine you can control
11:55 AM satiowadahc: support from this awesome community :)
11:55 AM internut: the question is, will I see a difference in my $135 CNC machine?
11:55 AM internut: the support is wonderful
11:55 AM internut: and I'm really trying to understand
11:55 AM satiowadahc: Jokes aside its sometimes nicer to have a physical interface. GRBL is meant to run "headless" without much control at runtime
11:56 AM rs[m]: internut: the mesa card will take care of clean jitter-free step pulse trains. it won't make a difference on your $135 cnc
11:56 AM internut: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08JG9J47M <--- here's the machine
11:57 AM internut: well, as far as I know, all I really need is the ability to get the origin right and then send the gcode
11:57 AM internut: I've yet to machine ANYTHING, so I could find out otherwise
11:57 AM roycroft: internut: a lot of folks who have those little engravers use octoproint to control them
11:58 AM internut: Thanks !!!!!!!
11:59 AM internut: wow, this looks exactly like what I was looking for
12:00 PM internut: and ot runs on a pi
12:00 PM internut: it
12:01 PM internut: it has the webcam built in
12:01 PM internut: I might be able to use this on my 3D printer too
12:01 PM JT-Shop: yea octoprint is what I use on my printers it's pretty awesome
12:02 PM internut: I use Repetier for my printer
12:02 PM internut: it's a moldy oldy version too
12:02 PM internut: but, it works
12:02 PM internut: they've got a web based thing that I run on a pi attached to the printer
12:08 PM roycroft: i use octoprint to control my 3d printer
12:08 PM roycroft: i bought an rpi4 dedicated to doing that for it
12:09 PM roycroft: i recently bought a laser to mount on the printer, and have done a little initial testing, but i've been busy with other projects and haven't really etched anything yet
12:09 PM roycroft: it looks like it will work out nicely though
12:09 PM internut: I'm interested in the laser
12:10 PM internut: I'm thinking of making PCBs by using a laser to expose a photosensitive film
12:10 PM roycroft: the way it works on 3d printers is that it uses the cooling fan line to toggle the laser on and off
12:10 PM roycroft: i printed a quick change tool mounting system that lets me swap the printer hot end with the laser easily
12:11 PM internut: That was the next thing I was going to ask
12:11 PM internut: how hard is it to change it
12:11 PM internut: the CNC machine I bought was 135
12:11 PM roycroft: my intent is to do laser etching in brass/copper sheet, to make machinery badges
12:11 PM internut: I was thinking of just buying another to put a laser on
12:11 PM internut: ah, yes
12:11 PM roycroft: basically i'll coat the sheet metal with resist, and use the laser to burn off the resist where i want to etch
12:11 PM internut: the badges will look nice
12:12 PM ziper: embarrassing
12:12 PM roycroft: then dunk the sheet in acid
12:12 PM Jymmm: roycroft: you getting a YaG ?
12:12 PM ziper: all i had to do to release the chuck was turn the handwheel mo better
12:12 PM internut: Since you guys are into machines, y'all might appreciate this:
12:12 PM roycroft: what is that, jymmm?
12:12 PM internut: I have a Pre WWII 10" LeBlonde lathe
12:12 PM roycroft: nice, internut
12:13 PM Jymmm: roycroft: A YaG laser will cut/engrave metal
12:13 PM roycroft: i was looking at a used lebonde a while ago
12:13 PM internut: needs a little TLC
12:13 PM roycroft: oh
12:13 PM roycroft: i just have a little 6w led laser that mounts on my 3d printer
12:13 PM roycroft: i don't want to etch metal directly, at least not right now
12:13 PM roycroft: my plan is to do acid etching
12:13 PM internut: (leaks oil, the rest of it works fine. And I have a ton of tools for it)
12:13 PM roycroft: and just use the laser to prep the resist film
12:14 PM Jymmm: roycroft: what film do you plan on using?
12:14 PM roycroft: i'm not sure
12:14 PM internut: so, it sounds like you're doing EXACTLY what I'm talking about
12:14 PM internut: I ordered some film
12:14 PM internut: 1 sec
12:14 PM roycroft: folks say that a matte black paint works well
12:14 PM internut: check this stuff out:
12:14 PM roycroft: i've only gotten as far as buying the laser and fitting it to my printer
12:14 PM internut: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08DTT4QZJ
12:14 PM roycroft: i've been busy working on my bandsaw project of late
12:15 PM Jymmm: roycroft: once you find a resist that works, let me lknoe
12:15 PM roycroft: sure
12:15 PM Jymmm: thanks
12:15 PM roycroft: i just shot paint on the final round of parts for the bandsaw, btw
12:16 PM internut: the film I linked polymerizes under UV light
12:16 PM roycroft: as in a few minutes ago
12:16 PM roycroft: i shot color
12:16 PM roycroft: i still have to shoot a couple coats of clear
12:16 PM internut: you wash away the unpolymerized film with baking soda and water
12:16 PM internut: then etch
12:16 PM roycroft: but i should be able to get the bandsaw put together this weekend
12:16 PM roycroft: and my mcmaster order is now due to arrive friday
12:17 PM roycroft: if ups don't make up any more excuses to be late
12:17 PM JT-Shop: I don't expect ups until friday
12:17 PM roycroft: there is no bad weather between reno and here
12:17 PM roycroft: yet ups claim to be late due to "weather delays"
12:18 PM roycroft: the shipment from wisconsin that is late i understand
12:18 PM roycroft: the one from reno, not so much
12:19 PM internut: this CNC machine has a motor and a laser that look pretty easily switched:
12:19 PM internut: https://www.amazon.com/MYSWEETY-3018PRO-M-Milling-Engraving-Extension/dp/B07Y1QRVFP
12:19 PM internut: I need to find that laser
12:23 PM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm/143138770486
12:23 PM roycroft: that's the laser i got
12:23 PM roycroft: the listing says 4.5w, but the one they sent was 6w
12:24 PM roycroft: my printer is an ender 5
12:24 PM internut: I think the motor mount on the CNC machine will hold that laser
12:24 PM roycroft: the only caveat with using it on the ender5 is that the ender5 is 24v, and the laser is 12v, so i needed to add a voltage converter to keep from blowing up the laser
12:26 PM roycroft: time will tell if that laser is sufficient
12:26 PM roycroft: i got it because it is cheap and lightweight, and should be able to burn through resist ok
12:26 PM roycroft: if i need more power i'll need a dedicated laser machine, which takes up space that i don't have
12:27 PM roycroft: but if i ever want to do direct engraving of metal i'll probably end up getting a 40w laser
12:27 PM roycroft: i'm hoping that doing the acid resist etching method works out well for me
12:27 PM roycroft: the plan is to do the etching, then infill the etched areas with sealing wax, then buff the surface until it's nice and shiny
12:30 PM internut: sounds like it will be gorgeous
12:30 PM roycroft: i'll see how it works out
12:30 PM roycroft: the plan is to make the stuff look nice
12:31 PM internut: You're going for the kind of brass plates that are on my old lathe I think
12:31 PM roycroft: yes, that kind of stuff
12:31 PM roycroft: badges for machinery
12:36 PM * Tom_L reads back
12:37 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, remember that toy you got as a kid that made you feel all grown up? that's what grbl is compared to linuxcnc
12:42 PM internut: roycroft: how small a point will that laser focus to?
12:43 PM roycroft: i'm not sure - i haven't fully tested it yet
12:43 PM roycroft: iirc it's supposed to be able to do 0.1mm
12:43 PM internut: oh, awesome
12:43 PM roycroft: but it's a rectangular dot, not a round one, so it's probably more like 0.1x0.2
12:44 PM roycroft: whether i'll be able to focus it that finely or not remains to be seen
12:44 PM roycroft: as i said before, i got it because it's cheap and lightweight
12:44 PM roycroft: a pretty easy experiment that may work out nicely
12:44 PM internut: I actually need less power
12:44 PM internut: can the power be dialed back?
12:45 PM roycroft: you toggle it on and off to adjust power
12:45 PM roycroft: which is also what you do when focusing it
12:45 PM internut: so it's pwm?
12:47 PM roycroft: pwm/ttl
12:53 PM internut: I know the controller board in the CNC 3018 already knows how to deal with lasers
12:54 PM roycroft: as i said earlier, folks who use lasers like that with 3d printers use the cooling fan line to power the laser
12:54 PM roycroft: and there is freely-available engraving software that generates the gcode to toggle the cooling fan
12:55 PM roycroft: so for 3d printers it's really easy to swap the hot end out for a laser
12:55 PM roycroft: i'm sure it's not much harder for a cnc mill
12:55 PM roycroft: certainly a simple sed script could be written to post-process gcode that is not quite right
01:31 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, lol
01:43 PM roycroft: rush limbaugh has left the building
01:43 PM roycroft: he hung in there a long time after his cancer diagnosis
01:46 PM roycroft: woo hoo!
01:46 PM roycroft: my chisels finally shipped!
01:46 PM * roycroft has been waiting since the beginning of december
01:47 PM roycroft: but they shipped from snowville, so i've no idea how long it will take for final delivery
02:09 PM JT-Shop: geez spent all day making this damn part and one hole is oversize somehow and the pin just falls through... designed to be press fit in aluminum
02:11 PM Tom_L: get a bigger pin?
02:16 PM bjorkintosh: JT-Shop, was it the drill bit?
02:16 PM JT-Shop: dunno
02:16 PM JT-Shop: didn't have a #13 reamer so had to drill it
02:16 PM JT-Shop: 2 holes came out on size
04:10 PM roycroft: my replacement laptop finally shipped
04:11 PM Tom_L: or did they just print a shipper ticket?
04:12 PM roycroft: they did that two weeks ago
04:13 PM roycroft: fedex claim to have it in their posession
04:45 PM roycroft: i just saw my first robin of the year
04:45 PM roycroft: that's encouraging
04:45 PM Tom_L: not here yet
04:45 PM Tom_L: they wouldn't survive here yet i doubt
05:43 PM JT-Cave: another exhausting day hauling firewood, water and shoveling snow
05:44 PM Tom_L: get your oversize holes worked out?
05:44 PM JT-Cave: I hope I don't run out of firewood
05:44 PM Tom_L: you got plenty o trees around
05:44 PM JT-Cave: only one hole was oversize
05:44 PM JT-Cave: got to be dry to burn
05:44 PM JT-Cave: takes a year
05:44 PM Tom_L: yeah
05:45 PM JT-Cave: I made a pin from cold roll and used a punch to make the middle bigger and it seems to be a tight fith
05:45 PM JT-Cave: fit
05:45 PM Jymmm: water haulsing??
05:45 PM Jymmm: hauling?
05:46 PM JT-Cave: every 1 1/2 hour take hot water out to the coops and dump the water bowls then fill with hot water
05:46 PM JT-Cave: and check for any eggs
05:46 PM Jymmm: ah
05:47 PM Tom_L: maybe you need a bowl heater?
05:47 PM JT-Cave: none of the birds will come outside in the snow to use the JT Special heated water station
05:47 PM Tom_L: heh
05:48 PM JT-Cave: the pullets have a heated dog bowl in the run and the hens have a heated water bucket with vertical nipples in their run
05:48 PM CaptHindsight: we hit >20F today, deep freeze is finally ending
05:48 PM Tom_L: yay
05:48 PM Tom_L: not quite as cold here either
05:49 PM CaptHindsight: >40F next week, won't know what to do with myself
05:49 PM JT-Cave: I've not been out since Sunday when I went to town to get a starter for Rusty
05:51 PM CaptHindsight: 4 hour drive rt yesterday, roads weren't too bad
05:51 PM Tom_L: yeah same here however there are just some that are ditch magnets
05:51 PM JT-Cave: I've walked to the mailbox twice in shin deep snow
05:52 PM Tom_L: trash didn't show yesterday and informed that they will skip a week
05:52 PM CaptHindsight: this will be one of those springs with snow still in piles >6ft and 60F
05:52 PM JT-Cave: I didn't bother putting the trash out
05:53 PM Tom_L: i really didn't think it was that bad
05:53 PM Tom_L: i managed to make my rounds
05:53 PM Tom_L: this generation is just a bunch of candy asses
05:54 PM CaptHindsight: some parking lots here have snow mountains 20 ft high
05:54 PM JT-Cave: I could get out if I go north on 521 to 67 but I'll wait for the driveway to melt
05:55 PM JT-Cave: just too tired to start the Ferguson and put on the grader blade
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: good year to have a snowmobile here
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: past few winters have been near snow free
06:56 PM _unreal_: just finished designing my PCB for the laser etcher milling now
07:37 PM MarcWeber: join ##nixos
07:40 PM Tom_L: no
07:42 PM XXCoder: ask again later
08:22 PM CaptHindsight: join ##nixos has triggered self destruct sequence Alpha
09:53 PM unterhaus: probably would have worked if he had a slash in front
11:14 PM _builtin is now known as __builtin
11:37 PM XXCoder: unterhaus: i found a web ui replacement that actually works
11:38 PM XXCoder: it even processes stuyff properly so gcode actually sets bed and hotend heat before starting, unlike stock ui that doesnt if its a second print.
11:45 PM unterhaus: XXCoder link?
11:45 PM XXCoder: lemme get it in a bit
11:46 PM XXCoder: https://www.mpselectmini.com/sample_webui
11:46 PM XXCoder: yes, its an example! and far better than stock. HAH.
11:47 PM XXCoder: theres link to download right below "sample web ui" and above text