#linuxcnc Logs

Jan 23 2021

01:45 AM Deejay: moin
03:39 AM veegee: Ok so I'm going to use 6063 architectural aluminum to create high current bus bars
03:40 AM veegee: I have lots of 6063 T6 stock. If you anneal it, it has almost the same electrical conductivity as pure aluminum.
03:40 AM veegee: My only concern is, how do I attach copper wires to it? You can't really solder to aluminum.
03:42 AM XXCoder: yo
03:42 AM XXCoder: isnt getting alum to copper bad for corrosion?
03:52 AM veegee: And it has an oxide layer, so screwing in a lug terminal feels like it it's going to mostly be touching that oxide layer. I can possibly use some kind of oil to scuff it up and prevent oxygen from getting to it and then screw in a copper lug
03:52 AM veegee: XXCoder not sure actually, but I can electroplate the copper with nickel or something
03:53 AM veegee: Or tin it with tin/lead solder
03:53 AM XXCoder: dunno, but probably work i guess yeah
03:53 AM veegee: My high current HP power supplies have aluminum bus bars for the outputs on the back
03:54 AM veegee: And I screwed in steel screws to clamp down bare copper wire onto them. No corrosion and they're putting out 120 amps
03:54 AM veegee: Normally I'd go for pure copper, but it's expensive. And annealed 6063 aluminum has 57% the conductivity of pure copper. Aluminum has about 60%
03:55 AM veegee: And I have like 300 kg of 6063 aluminum angle
03:55 AM veegee: So I don't mind doubling up the thickness of those bus bars
03:55 AM XXCoder: cool :) just be careful :)
03:55 AM veegee: Actually more like 500kg of aluminum
03:56 AM veegee: I could also try TIG welding and seeing what happens if I stick copper wire directly into that puddle of aluminum
04:20 AM Tom_L: veegee, they use a special paste to make the connections
04:21 AM Tom_L: back in the late 60's early 70's they put it in homes and it turned out to be a fire hazzard
04:23 AM Tom_L: https://www.carsondunlop.com/training/resources/the-true-story-behind-aluminum-wiring-part-one/
04:23 AM Tom_L: compound described in part 2
04:24 AM veegee: Tom_L did not know that, thanks!
04:24 AM Tom_L: on a buss bar it may be ok though
04:24 AM Tom_L: it's not going to expand/contract as much as wire probably
04:25 AM veegee: Tom_L yeah it won't at all, I generally go overkill on bus bars
04:26 AM veegee: Also the compound is a non-issue
04:26 AM veegee: I'm not worried about the fire hazard
04:53 AM veegee: Tom_L perfect, this is exactly what I need. Thanks! https://www.homedepot.ca/product/gardner-bender-ox-gard-anti-oxidant-compound-1-oz-1-cd/1000103601
05:07 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:12 AM XXCoder: yo
05:12 AM XXCoder: man this ones a long print lol
05:12 AM XXCoder: lincoln seated statue
05:12 AM XXCoder: 13 hours so far and still barely getting into knee area
05:13 AM JT-Cave: what printer are you using now?
05:13 AM XXCoder: mp select mini v2
06:28 AM JT-Cave: last time I tried to use the ender I could not get a good print
06:28 AM XXCoder: ender is supposely pretty good
06:29 AM XXCoder: im using cura it come with pretty good profile for my machine, though need to adjust retractions
06:30 AM JT-Cave: I think I'm using cura as well... been a while
06:41 AM JT-Cave: I need to wire up my pwm spindle on the 7i96...
08:35 AM roycroft: i use cura for slicing for my printer, and octoprint on a rpi4 to talk to the printer
08:37 AM skunkworks: I normally use cura. Unless I am having issue that I want to see if it is slicer/printer.
08:38 AM roycroft: i'm seeing a pattern here
08:39 AM skunkworks: I have not played with octoprint - I assume you can send files to the printers with usb? maybe camera's to watch? Is that what I am seeing?
08:45 AM skunkworks: Dad is getting starlink
08:45 AM skunkworks: I am excited..
08:45 AM XXCoder: fancy
08:45 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, pwm for which spindle?
08:46 AM skunkworks: He will pay less montly when he gets rid of his 1.5X256k dsl
08:46 AM skunkworks: assuming it works at least as good as his current crap
08:48 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, just a 12vdc motor
08:48 AM Tom_L: just testing?
08:49 AM roycroft: yes
08:49 AM JT-Cave: yea
08:49 AM roycroft: octoprint is a good way to manage a printer
08:49 AM JT-Cave: that's what I have octoprint
08:50 AM roycroft: my printer (ender 5) has a control panel that sits outside the printer, and is open
08:50 AM roycroft: i printed a little enclosure for it that i got on thingverse that lets me mount a rpi4 inside the enclosure
08:50 AM roycroft: so i have a nice, neat little package that takes up no extra room
08:51 AM roycroft: and a web interface to control the printer, plus i have a webcam mounted above the printer
08:51 AM roycroft: the printer lives in a room that i normally do not occupy, so this works out really well
08:51 AM roycroft: i can print from my office or my shop and monitor the job remotely
08:53 AM roycroft: it got down to freezing overnight - i need to leave for work soon, and will have to scrape ice off my car windows for the first time this year
08:53 AM roycroft: and the second time this season
08:55 AM XXCoder: lol yeah icy outside here too
09:00 AM roycroft: i hope it warms up a bit today - when i get back from work i have to spend some time in my fabrication shop, which is unheated and unheatable
09:07 AM Tom_L: does the rpi4 run hot inside the enclosure?
09:16 AM skunkworks: it was 2f here this morning. 6f currently
09:16 AM skunkworks: I have an extra rpi4 I should play with
09:17 AM skunkworks: probably a bit overkill
09:19 AM Tom_L: never!
09:20 AM Tom_L: sounds like you better stick a log on the fire
10:15 AM JT-Shop: it's so nice to not HAVE to do anything today
10:17 AM Tom_L: heh
10:18 AM Tom_L: cloudy and 33 but no precip yet
11:07 AM unterhaus: there is a fan in my desktop that is slowly dying and trying to drive me nuts
11:51 AM unterhaus: I should go turn on the heater in my shop so I can glue some guitars
11:55 AM unterhaus: I wonder if "black pills" have enough of a cpu to run the stmbl code
12:01 PM roycroft: work is going well today
12:02 PM roycroft: because i kicked the cable guy out as soon as i knew that things were working
12:02 PM roycroft: he was trying to argue with me and tell me how i have to configure my network
12:02 PM roycroft: i just asked him which jack i can plug my laptop into to test the cable connection, and when it worked i sent him away
12:03 PM roycroft: i actually get to go home soon
12:05 PM roycroft: so i'll get a decent amount of shop time in today
12:56 PM unterhaus: anyone following the rpi4 saga? If I were to buy an rpi4, how much memory should I get?
12:57 PM Tom_L: all of it
12:57 PM Tom_L: i forget how much mine has
12:57 PM Tom_L: what are the options?
12:57 PM Tom_L: 2G 4G?
12:58 PM Tom_L: yeah i got 4G
12:58 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XTQL6YZ/
12:58 PM Tom_L: kit is nice since it has all you need
12:59 PM unterhaus: up to 8gb, IIRC
12:59 PM Tom_L: 4 seems to work
12:59 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Metal-Raspberry-Heatsink-Thermal-Adhesive/dp/B07VMD25SK
12:59 PM Tom_L: got that heatsink too
01:03 PM JT-Cave: nice kit
01:03 PM JT-Cave: I've heard of issues with 2GB and 8GB versions
01:04 PM Tom_L: what on the 8G?
01:06 PM unterhaus: Tom_L, you have a heatsink inside the case?
01:06 PM Tom_L: the case is the heatsink
01:07 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Rpi4/
01:07 PM Tom_L: pics
01:07 PM unterhaus: Andy got one of those in purple, which doesn't seem to be available on amazon u.s.
01:08 PM unterhaus: okay, I thought you had the kit
01:08 PM Tom_L: i do
01:08 PM Tom_L: i got both
01:08 PM unterhaus: okey
01:08 PM miss0r: next week being busy AF $$, car battery died to I had to hand crank it(yeah its old) $$$, the handcrank kicks back breaking mt thumb so i have to wear a cast for the next four weeks: priceless....
01:08 PM Tom_L: supply has a switch on the cord which is nice
01:09 PM unterhaus: I just realized I'm too cheap and I'm going to stick with $10 pcs from the university
01:09 PM * Tom_L introduces miss0r to the 21st century
01:09 PM miss0r: also... typing only with my left hand takes forever :-[
01:09 PM miss0r: Tom_L... "usualy" i love my veteran vehicles
01:10 PM unterhaus: it wasn't that long ago that you could hand crank a honda civic
01:10 PM miss0r: only took it for a spin because it was a saturday :]
01:10 PM unterhaus: There was a convenient hole in the wheelwell and the lug wrench fit the nut on the end of the crankshaft
01:11 PM miss0r: so at the moment being selfemployed and not being able to do jack s... for four weeks sucks
01:11 PM JT-Shop: my `56 Ferguson F40 has the bolt on the crank for a hand crank (continental engine) but no hole in the front for a crank
01:11 PM miss0r: oh realy?
01:12 PM miss0r: this even has a "one-way" drive, where it just pushes the crank out if the engine rotates faster than the crank. but that doesn't help if it fires back
01:12 PM miss0r: hand crank, that is
01:19 PM roycroft: backfiring was definitely the concern with hand-crank starting
01:19 PM miss0r: this is one of the days i love the danish healthcare system. I went to the ER, and 45 minuts later I was out the door again. and i didn't have to pay anything
01:19 PM roycroft: you had to have great reflexes
01:19 PM miss0r: roycroft: theres actualy a specific way you have to hold the crank so it can't do that. but my hand slipped at exactly the wrong moment
01:22 PM roycroft: i just got home, and just turned the heater on in my wood shop
01:22 PM roycroft: it's pretty cold there still, and even when it warms up, i'll be in the other shop that can't be reasonably heated for a while
01:23 PM roycroft: if you want to redirect some of your excess heat to my shop i'd be much obliged
01:26 PM roycroft: i also need to do some routing that really doesn't lend itself to dust collection, so i probably have to set up an outdoor workstation for that
01:26 PM * roycroft is ready for it to be spring
01:37 PM * JT-Shop too
01:53 PM ziper: this bearings are absolutely cooked
01:57 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, does the fan get power from the 40 pin header?
01:58 PM Tom_L: mine doesn't have a fan since i'm using that other heatsink
01:58 PM Tom_L: i can look though
02:00 PM Tom_L: yes, pin 14 & 1
02:01 PM Tom_L: 2 single header pins
02:01 PM JT-Shop: kinda screws you if you want to plug a 40 cable on...
02:02 PM Tom_L: i like that finned case but you'd need a riser or something for the idc to plug in to it
02:02 PM Tom_L: you saw my pics showing the header?
02:52 PM roycroft: my shop is warming up a little, but i think that the 5 minute epoxy is going to take more like an hour to harden
02:56 PM Tom_L: gas or wood heat?
03:01 PM roycroft: electric
03:06 PM Tom_L: heh
03:39 PM unterhaus: some versions of the finned case come with a riser
03:42 PM Tom_itx: huh
03:46 PM unterhaus: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085XPHY77/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_3?smid=AOP0CH6UTUPHT&psc=1
03:47 PM roycroft: yeah, the epoxy is being really slow today, and i realized i made a big sequence mistake
03:47 PM Tom_itx: source the header from digikey
03:48 PM roycroft: everything i need to work on on that project is now waiting for the epoxy to dry
03:48 PM Tom_itx: if you already had the case with no riser
03:48 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
03:48 PM roycroft: but i could have done a couple things before applying it, and would then have been able to do a lot of other things while waiting on the epoxy
03:48 PM roycroft: i hate it when i do stuff like that
03:48 PM Tom_L: i'd have to hunt for those now but i used to know what they are
03:52 PM * JT-Shop is tired after sifting and bagging one bin of compost and shifting the rest over by one bin
04:04 PM unterhaus: that's why I have barrel composters. No shifting. Of course, they make crappier compost
04:05 PM gregcnc: "crappier" compost
04:08 PM XXCoder: hey all
04:14 PM JT-Shop: my compost bins are 4' x 4' x 3' deep
04:14 PM JT-Shop: it would take a lot of barrels to compost all the chicken shit I get each day lol
04:14 PM Tom_L: cement mixer
04:15 PM ziper: welp
04:15 PM roycroft: do you grow tomatoes,jt-shop?
04:15 PM ziper: one of the headstock gears is missing teeth
04:15 PM JT-Shop: yes, in my raised beds
04:15 PM ziper: I didn't realize because the spindle bearings were too stuck to turn it over and check
04:15 PM JT-Shop: I have three tomato plants growing right now
04:16 PM roycroft: what i used to do when i had access to chicken manure was make a cylinder out of 4' high chicken wire
04:16 PM roycroft: i'd dig out a 2' deep hole in the middle of a garden bed, set the cylinder in the hole, and fill it with fresh manure
04:16 PM roycroft: i'd do that in february or so
04:17 PM roycroft: by may, when it's time to plant tomatos, it will have aged a bit
04:17 PM roycroft: i'd plant the tomatos in a ring around the cylinder
04:17 PM XXCoder: unterhaus: whats up with them so far?
04:17 PM roycroft: and top it off as the manure aged
04:17 PM roycroft: i got incredible crops doing that
04:17 PM JT-Shop: cool
04:18 PM roycroft: that won't get rid of all of yours, but it would take care of some of it
04:18 PM roycroft: and as long as you keep putting the fresh manure on the top of the cylinder it won't be hot enough to burn the plants
04:19 PM JT-Shop: yea I get about 4 pounds a day
04:23 PM JT-Shop: I try and prep the raised beds in the fall but have not done so yet
04:23 PM JT-Shop: I add some lime and ash and compost and stir it up
04:25 PM JT-Shop: I let the hens dig in the last compost bin but keep the hot bin and the middle bin covered
04:26 PM JT-Shop: I wonder what I could do to attract worms into the final bin?
04:26 PM Tom_L: coffee grounds?
04:26 PM roycroft: i've noticed that the media have almost universally turned the president's name into a single word, with the vowel sound in his first name shortened to just a shibboleth - they refer to him as "j'biden"
04:26 PM roycroft: when i was in my early 20s i worked at a café for a couple years
04:27 PM roycroft: at the end of the day my boss, the owner, would cook up all the leftover pancake batter into pancakes
04:27 PM roycroft: and he would give them to me
04:27 PM JT-Shop: I put the coffee grounds in the hot bin... hmm
04:27 PM roycroft: i filled a 5 gallon bucket with pancakes, and had another 5 gallon bucket where i dumped all the coffee grounds
04:27 PM XXCoder: coffee grounds makes bugs go away i think
04:28 PM roycroft: took those home with me and used them to feed the worms in one of my compost bins
04:28 PM roycroft: worms love coffee grounds and pancakes
04:28 PM XXCoder: interesting
04:28 PM gregcnc: ethopia or peru?
04:28 PM Tom_L: https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/soil-fertilizers/how-to-attract-earthworms.htm
04:29 PM JT-Shop: hmm I'll start adding coffee grounds to the final bin as there is enough nitrogen going into the hot bin now
04:29 PM Tom_L: leaves
04:30 PM roycroft: i'm done waiting on the epoxy
04:30 PM roycroft: i hope it's kicked off enough now
04:30 PM JT-Shop: don't want to add anything to the final compost bin that would need to break down before using it
04:30 PM roycroft: if not, i'll just cover it with masking tape so that i can move on
04:31 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, maybe add them to the 2nd bin
04:31 PM roycroft: coffee grounds are safe to add directly to the soil
04:31 PM roycroft: they don't need to compost first
04:31 PM roycroft: i'd be fine adding them to the final compost bin
04:32 PM Tom_L: i meant adding leaves to the 2nd one
04:36 PM JT-Shop: I put everything in the first bin, poop sawdust and planer chips and food scraps
04:36 PM JT-Shop: the second bin is where it finishes up composting without adding any more fresh poop
04:37 PM Tom_L: you might kickstart it with some worms from the bait store
04:38 PM JT-Shop: I have plenty of worms, turning the raised beds and I see a bunch
04:38 PM JT-Shop: I have a horse stall mat by the door downstairs and if you lift that up the chickens go nuts eating worms
04:39 PM Tom_L: heh
04:40 PM JT-Shop: I think they are a little deeper this time of year
04:47 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, how can you clean the drum sander belt where the eraser won't get it clean
05:04 PM asdfasd: https://pasteboard.co/JL28SM7.png
05:04 PM asdfasd: I think enogh for now
05:10 PM JT-Shop: looks good
05:34 PM _unreal_: working on wiring mainly now on the laser etcher
05:36 PM Tom_L: asdfasd, did you build the kernel?
05:36 PM Tom_L: or just bios settings etc?
06:28 PM unterhaus_: XXCoder, radio silence since yesterday
06:29 PM XXCoder: :( sorry i suggested you that company
06:30 PM asdfasd: Tom_L: no, it is the one available to download as buster iso
06:31 PM Tom_L: RTAI?
06:31 PM Tom_L: must be the preempt-rt then if it's the iso
06:31 PM asdfasd: no, the other one, LinuxCNC 2.8.0 Debian 10 Buster PREEMPT-RT ISO
06:32 PM Tom_L: right
06:32 PM asdfasd: which is worst out of the box
06:32 PM asdfasd: wheezy is much better
06:32 PM Tom_L: that's pretty good
06:32 PM asdfasd: dont need tweaks
06:32 PM Tom_L: i imagine wheezy would be since it's rtai
06:33 PM Tom_L: i'm running wheezy on the mill and see no reason to switch
06:33 PM asdfasd: well, probably I wasted my time, and I shouldnt switch too
06:34 PM asdfasd: but I had some troubles sharing files from windows 10
06:34 PM Tom_L: this was all over the windows 10 networking right?
06:34 PM Tom_L: problems either direction?
06:34 PM asdfasd: it seems wheezy is way too old and dont support new protocols
06:34 PM Tom_L: no but windows should honor them
06:35 PM asdfasd: it doesnt, they are disabled now, and even if you enable it manually, it is not sure how long will be available
06:35 PM asdfasd: with next update they may remove them completely
06:35 PM Tom_L: that's just wrong
06:36 PM asdfasd: later somebody esle told me to use FTP instead of network shares
06:36 PM asdfasd: and probably that was the best option
06:36 PM Tom_L: i still use 7 and also see no reason to change
06:36 PM asdfasd: but I already begin with tweaking
06:37 PM Tom_L: try winscp on it
06:38 PM asdfasd: Im using filezilla, but that is good too
06:38 PM Tom_L: and filezilla on the linux box
06:38 PM Tom_L: depending which direction you're going
06:38 PM Tom_L: i use winscp on my windows box
06:39 PM asdfasd: most of the time I need to transfer from windows to linux
06:39 PM XXCoder: filazilla is paid, but might be best dunno
06:39 PM XXCoder: it was what i used in a job quite a while ago
06:39 PM Tom_L: paid?
06:39 PM XXCoder: paid program yeah. not free
06:39 PM Tom_L: it's free on linux
06:40 PM XXCoder: hmm might have misremembered, its few years :)
06:40 PM Tom_L: i've got it on all my linux stuff
06:40 PM asdfasd: its free on windows too
06:40 PM asdfasd: or at least it was when I installed it
06:41 PM XXCoder: maybe its paid for company usage?
06:41 PM Tom_L: just too bad you can't just map a drive to it
06:41 PM asdfasd: yep, its still free
06:42 PM asdfasd: usually in terminal when I press tab it shows suggestions, but while typing sudo apt-get install this tab key is not always working?
06:42 PM asdfasd: Im I wrong something?
06:43 PM Tom_L: not sure what you're asking
06:43 PM asdfasd: for example if I dont know the package name, I type the beginning and then press tab key
06:43 PM asdfasd: and sometime it shows the available packages
06:43 PM asdfasd: but sometome doesnt
06:44 PM Tom_L: never tried that
06:44 PM Tom_L: if i sudo apt-get tab i get a list of commands though
06:45 PM Tom_L: you can always look in the synaptic package manager
06:46 PM asdfasd: that is why I hate linux - I always have to look somewhere else...
06:46 PM asdfasd: for every simple task
06:46 PM Tom_L: they both have their share of issues
06:50 PM roycroft: apt-get is now just apt - save some keystrokes :)
06:51 PM Tom_L: i never can remember which os i'm on
06:51 PM Tom_L: wheezy.. stretch.. buster..
06:51 PM asdfasd: well tab still dont work
06:51 PM asdfasd: even with apt only
06:56 PM asdfasd: I found it, somebody decided to disable that in this iso
06:56 PM asdfasd: https://askubuntu.com/questions/86375/apt-get-autocomplete-package-name-is-broken
06:57 PM Tom_L: they tend to strip things out for the lcnc iso
06:58 PM asdfasd: the other people experiencing that same issue are not using lcnc
06:58 PM asdfasd: it seems linux in general is changing way too fast and upredictable, without any backward compatability
06:58 PM asdfasd: whatever someone suggested somewhere after a year is not working anymore
07:00 PM Tom_L: yeah
07:00 PM Tom_L: don't upgrade that often :)
07:00 PM asdfasd: I did it once in 10 years
07:00 PM asdfasd: and already regret haha
07:01 PM Tom_L: i usually start that with a different ssd just in case
07:01 PM asdfasd: its not only different ssd, it different PC :)
07:02 PM asdfasd: the old one was installed 2008, which mean its more than 10 years old
07:37 PM CaptHindsight: asdfasd: did you get your system latency jitter down to 3,000? If so what did you do to lower the latency?
07:38 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, https://pasteboard.co/JL28SM7.png
07:38 PM CaptHindsight: only run for a short time :(
07:43 PM CaptHindsight: the mystery continues
07:43 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, you don't happen to know what these risers are called? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085XPHY77/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_3?smid=AOP0CH6UTUPHT&psc=1
07:43 PM Tom_L: pin risers
07:43 PM Tom_L: cgrid type i know
07:44 PM CaptHindsight: Socket Riser Header
07:44 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.adafruit.com/product/4079
07:45 PM CaptHindsight: stack-able headers
07:45 PM Tom_L: i was trying to find them at dk
07:51 PM CaptHindsight: yeah weird
07:51 PM CaptHindsight: haven't found them there yet, mystery name at DK
07:52 PM Tom_L: i've looked for similar in the past and came up dry too
07:52 PM Tom_L: tried things like pc104 stuff etc
07:54 PM CaptHindsight: expensive version https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mill-max-manufacturing-corp/835-47-020-10-001000/7771275
07:55 PM Tom_L: machined pin type
07:56 PM CaptHindsight: I'd call DK on Monday and ask
07:57 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: you want the machined pin type?
07:58 PM Tom_L: meh, i'll just get them from adafruit if i decide to i just couldn't figure out why i can't find em at dk
07:58 PM Tom_L: machined pin doesn't matter to me
07:58 PM Tom_L: i think i've got some sip sockets that would work, just double em up
08:06 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.mouser.com/Connectors/Backplane-Connectors/PC-104-Connectors/_/N-axj5nZ1yzvvqx?P=1ytkn39Z1yob238&Keyword=pc104+header&FS=True
08:07 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/527/esw_th-1369991.pdf
08:12 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: at DK https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/rectangular-connectors-headers-receptacles-female-sockets/315?s=N4IgjCBcoBw1oDGUBmBDANgZwKYBoQB7KAbXAGYB2SgTgDYQCAmMMOgVggF0CAHAFyggAyvwBOASwB2AcxABfZmEpMEIZJHTZ8RUiFU8QAoQEkp-HDJxiFBALQRo61JlwFikMnTAG%2BgyCC2IHYALGoaWm66niAw1DQghsYBQXaqThriAK46HmTsiX5CCvLyQA
08:13 PM Tom_L: gettin close
08:13 PM CaptHindsight: you can narrow down the pin length you want from there
08:13 PM Tom_L: yeah
08:13 PM CaptHindsight: and height of the stack
08:14 PM CaptHindsight: I had to work backwards from the Samtec part numbers
08:14 PM Tom_L: heh
08:14 PM CaptHindsight: DK calls them Elevated Socket
08:14 PM Tom_L: i looked for some back when i was messin with a 68332
08:15 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/rectangular-connectors-headers-receptacles-female-sockets/315?s=N4IgjCBcoBw1oDGUBmBDANgZwKYBoQB7KAbRACYwwA2AVggF0CAHAFyhAGVWAnASwB2AcxABfArWoAWBCGSR02fEVIgAzGHIB2KbRBMQbDt37CxBSlvKz5i3AWKQy1g0cggAkgNY4hOHuYgALQQ0HKomPYqTiDUmvos7O6BQTJhtpHKjmQwWloAnAmGSSAp1ulQvACuWap6riVi4rGyfAAmHCEADBCJHCAErACezDgcaFjIoqJAA
08:15 PM CaptHindsight: the DK search also fights you on 2 rows x 20 positions
08:16 PM CaptHindsight: had to enter 40 positions and 2 rows
08:16 PM CaptHindsight: that would be 80
08:16 PM CaptHindsight: but not at DK :)
08:18 PM Tom_L: hah
08:19 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/rectangular-connectors-headers-receptacles-female-sockets/315?s=N4IgjCBcoGwJxVAYygMwIYBsDOBTANCAPZQDaIALGGABxwDsIAuoQA4AuUIAyuwE4BLAHYBzEAF9CNGohApIGHAWJkQAJmowArBBYgOXXoNETCcCNDloseQiUjkAzBpjVmbTpB79hYySC0YCll5RVsVBxBHMDV6Ci13fU9vYz9CMHo4AAYQ6yU7VQY1GESDLyNfU3UstWDLUJtle3Iikr0ylMr-DXo1XIVGgsi%2B9uSASSF2XBFcPiqAWj76qH4AVybVBNGuCW7VAFFMXAA3dCmAEwACbiIkAGtcdku1ADotYL0SywFzrnmwLIQDw7QjsACerFwX
08:19 PM CaptHindsight: HQ2BQ4nEQA
08:19 PM CaptHindsight: yikes
08:19 PM CaptHindsight: but this includes more brands at DK
08:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://bit.ly/3qKw1Nl
08:20 PM Tom_L: well at least we know they have them
08:22 PM CaptHindsight: lowest cost https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/rectangular-connectors-headers-receptacles-female-sockets/315?s=N4IgjCBcoGwJxVAYygMwIYBsDOBTANCAPZQDaIALGGABxwDsIAuoQA4AuUIAyuwE4BLAHYBzEAF9CNGohApIGHAWJkQAJmowArBBYgOXXoNETCcCNDloseQiUjkAzBpjVmbTpB79hYySC0YCll5RVsVBxBHMDV6Ci13fU9vYz9CMHo4AAYQ6yU7VQY1GESDLyNfU3UstWDLUJtle3Iikr0ylMr-DXo1XIVGgsi%2B9uSASSF2XBFcPiqAWj76qH4AVybVBNGuBYtkPPDm8ECZba8JbtUAUUxcADd0KYATAAJuIiQAa1x2F7UAOi0w
08:22 PM CaptHindsight: T0JUsAieXHmMg8O0I7AAnqxcFwntgUOJxEA
08:22 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/sparkfun-electronics/PRT-16764/12686344
08:23 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/sparkfun-electronics/PRT-16763/12686348
08:23 PM jymmmm: https://cdn.sparkfun.com/assets/0/8/d/b/2/DS-16764-2_X_20_Pin_Extended_GPIO_Header_-_Female_-_13.5mm_9.80mm.pdf
08:25 PM Tom_L: hi jymmmm
08:26 PM jymmmm: hey tom =)
08:26 PM Tom_L: been kinda quiet lately
08:28 PM jymmmm: Yeah, life stuff gets in the way soemtimes
09:09 PM veegee: ok I need all y'all honest opinion on this
09:10 PM veegee: my girlfriend got mad at me because apparently I make her feel stupid
09:10 PM veegee: she asked me to pass her a screwdriver
09:10 PM veegee: I said "what kind/which one"
09:10 PM veegee: She said "the normal kind"
09:10 PM veegee: I said "there's no such thing as a normal screwdriver"
09:10 PM Tom_L: a flat blade is normal to them
09:10 PM veegee: Am I the bad guy in this?
09:11 PM Tom_L: yes
09:11 PM veegee: She wanted the phillips head #2!
09:11 PM Tom_L: whether you are or aren't :)
09:11 PM veegee: see you got it wrong too
09:11 PM Tom_L: so explain it
09:11 PM XXCoder: you're the asshole
09:12 PM Tom_L: try your hand in the kitchen
09:12 PM veegee: lol!
09:12 PM veegee: I love my fluffy little kitty cat. My fluffy kitty cat never gets mad at me
09:13 PM Tom_L: also flat blades are less common today over phillips so i can see that too
09:15 PM Tom_L: to verify this, walk around the house and do a comparison of the two
09:21 PM roycroft: robertson screws are more common in canada than phillips
09:22 PM roycroft: but even in the united states, torx drive screws are becoming more common than phillips
09:22 PM Tom_L: another few years and that will change again too
09:22 PM roycroft: in my shop, hex drive screws (socket head and button head) are much more common than any other kind
09:22 PM Tom_L: gotta keep sellin tools...
09:23 PM roycroft: i still use slotted screws a lot though
09:24 PM roycroft: when i'm making things out of wood where the fasteners will show i use slotted brass screws quite frequently
09:27 PM roycroft: i also soldier my screwheads, and it drives me nuts to see things that are otherwise made really well where the screws are installed randomly
09:28 PM Tom_L: in a modernish house most will be phillips though i bet
09:29 PM Tom_L: which would lead a 'novice' to ask for that type
09:30 PM roycroft: yes, that's correct
09:30 PM roycroft: except switch plate covers still use slotted head screws
09:30 PM veegee: Tom_L In Canada, square (robertson) are more common
09:30 PM roycroft: slotted oval head screws
09:30 PM veegee: all electrical boxes, etc. are robertson
09:31 PM roycroft: you can thank henry ford for robertson screws never becoming common in the usa
09:31 PM veegee: if anything, they're dual type, robertson with slots to allow ph #2 to drive them as well
09:31 PM veegee: everything should just be torx
09:31 PM roycroft: when mr. robertson invented them he tried to market them in the us
09:31 PM veegee: it's ridiculous that a screw head can have a patent
09:31 PM roycroft: ford wanted exclusive rights to use them
09:31 PM veegee: god damn americans
09:31 PM roycroft: and robertson got disgusted and just marketed them in canada
09:32 PM roycroft: the robertson screw is superior to the phillips
09:32 PM veegee: anything is superior to philips
09:32 PM roycroft: although much less attractive
09:32 PM roycroft: actually that's not true
09:32 PM veegee: philips is designed to cam out
09:32 PM veegee: none of the others are
09:32 PM roycroft: and phillips screws were designed for a reason
09:33 PM veegee: to increase sales of screw extractors
09:33 PM roycroft: when they were invented it was the early days of air tools, and the clutch had not been developed for them yet
09:33 PM veegee: Yeah, intentional cam out to prevent over torque
09:33 PM roycroft: so they could not be used in assembly lines because workers would shear the heads off the screws
09:33 PM veegee: worst design decision everf
09:33 PM roycroft: right
09:33 PM roycroft: no, it was the correct decision at the time
09:34 PM roycroft: but as air tool technology evolved, the advantage of automatic cam-out was negated
09:34 PM roycroft: and the robertson screw should have replaced it
09:34 PM veegee: torx should replace everything
09:34 PM roycroft: i disagree
09:35 PM roycroft: torx head screws are exceptionally ugly
09:35 PM roycroft: they're great where they do not show
09:35 PM roycroft: i find hex socket head screws attractive, but not torx
09:36 PM veegee: I honestly don't think they look bad at all. They're very prominently shown on my BMW R nineT
09:36 PM veegee: they're very common in germany
09:36 PM veegee: my bike has a combination of torx and hex
09:36 PM roycroft: i'm not averse to new technologies and new aesthetics
09:36 PM roycroft: but torx head screws i find almost singularly unattractive
09:37 PM roycroft: of the common screw types, i only find robertson less attractive
09:37 PM roycroft: and btw, i use robertson screws all the time
09:37 PM roycroft: but you'll never see one in anything i make
09:37 PM Tom_L: security torx ftw!
09:37 PM veegee: Not sure if you can tell from the pic: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/BMW_R_nineT_IAA_2019_JM_0256.jpg/2560px-BMW_R_nineT_IAA_2019_JM_0256.jpg
09:37 PM veegee: But all those screws are torx
09:37 PM veegee: and they look great
09:37 PM roycroft: i have pentagon head screws in multiple sizes
09:38 PM veegee: yeah iphones are filled with those
09:38 PM XXCoder: security screw on something you own, just weld metal to it then turn it oyut
09:38 PM roycroft: i mostly use them on the lids of underground utility vaults
09:38 PM XXCoder: replace with nice one thats not vender lockout
09:38 PM veegee: pentagon/pentalobe is for the true antisemite american
09:39 PM veegee: sneaky jews hiding the star of david in screws these days...
09:39 PM roycroft: it's to keep the tweekers from stealing the fiber optic cables thinking they're copper
09:45 PM roycroft: veegee: i don't pretend that my aesthetic sense is in any way authoritiative or even indicative of common thought
09:45 PM veegee: I know I'm just messing with you
09:45 PM roycroft: all i'm saying is that i, personally, find torx head screws unattractive to the point that i don't want anyone to see them in anything i produce
09:46 PM roycroft: and i'll say once again
09:46 PM roycroft: it's great that we have choices!
09:46 PM Tom_L: square drive!
09:47 PM * JavaBean gets popcorn
09:48 PM XXCoder: socketheads!
09:50 PM roycroft: i think it was andupugh who told me he worked at a place where they soldiered fasteners even when they needed to be torqued precisely
09:50 PM roycroft: he had a big box of fasteners, and would insert them one at a time in a hole until on of them lined up properly at the correct torque spec
09:50 PM Tom_L: we should all use whitworth wrenches too
09:51 PM roycroft: my attention to that kind of aesthetic detail is not only not unique, it's surpassed
09:53 PM * JavaBean makes a note that pugh-san is a bit ocd... or atleast works for someone who is
09:54 PM roycroft: and you get the impression that i'm not? :)
09:55 PM Tom_L: we know you are :)
09:55 PM roycroft: good, because i believe in transparency
09:56 PM * JavaBean checks notes, finds roycroft under the 'ocd' section... moves name to top of stack
10:02 PM roycroft: i fancy myself to have the ability to channel my ocd tendencies to things where it is beneficial, and to be able to put them aside where inappropriate or ineffective, but i cannot be the ultimate arbiter of my success at doing so
10:03 PM * JavaBean after thinking for a moment or 3 decides to add 5 stars to both names mentioned... uses a broken psudeo-random number generator to decide the angle and order of the stars
10:12 PM ve7it: unbeliveable, ordered some pcb, delivery via fedex, so far they have bounced all over the globe china-alaska-china-Tennessee-japan-memphis-denver-vancouver-richmond-casidy
10:13 PM JavaBean: save the packaging if you get it... should have a bunch of interesting stickers/stamps on it
10:14 PM XXCoder: yeah
11:12 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: aluminum or aluminium oxidizes in femtoseconds, so yah gottah move pretty quick after sanding it to beat the oxidation
11:12 PM veegee: CaptHindsight sand with grease/antioxidant on top of it
11:12 PM veegee: Or under argon gas
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: or in an oxygen free atmosphere, sure
11:13 PM veegee: But conductive grease/antioxidant on it while sanding makes sure oxygen doesn't touch it
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: so don't worry about it when bonding conductors to it
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: the major problem was loose connections
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: copper wire industry just made it sound unsafe
11:14 PM veegee: My biggest concern is resistance due to the oxide layer
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: it's nanometers thick
11:14 PM veegee: so just the act of screwing on the lug scratches it off?
11:15 PM CaptHindsight: unless you anodize it then it's a few microns thick
11:15 PM veegee: not anodized
11:15 PM veegee: so screwing on the lug and wiggling it a little will scratch it off and allow the copper to touch the bare aluminum?
11:15 PM Tom_L: there were a number of electrical fires during that period but probably alot of it was due to the fact the electricians weren't used to working with aluminum wiring
11:15 PM veegee: hopefully creating an airtight zone
11:16 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.researchgate.net/post/How_thick_is_the_Aluminum_Oxide_Layer_on_Aluminum
11:16 PM Tom_L: and alot of the installations were unsafe
11:16 PM veegee: I'm not worried about it being thick. Even a super thin layer is insulating
11:16 PM veegee: I just want to make sure the copper is in contact with pure aluminum, not the oxide layer blocking it
11:17 PM roycroft: sand it in a vacuum
11:17 PM veegee: not practical, but argon gas is available
11:17 PM Tom_L: they used that paste and roughed the wire up with a brush etc
11:17 PM CaptHindsight: you'd have to weld them to avoid having an oxide layer between them or abrade the oxide layer off while in some oxygen free medium
11:17 PM veegee: https://www.idealindustries.ca/products/electrical/wire-management/noalox.html
11:17 PM veegee: What about this
11:18 PM veegee: This sounds like it would work great as a sanding compound
11:18 PM veegee: Put a blob of it on, sand it and then screw the copper lug on
11:18 PM roycroft: i've used noalox for decades and haven't burned anything down yet
11:19 PM veegee: I have a 7 digit bench multimeter with 4 wire resistance sensing so I should be able to measure resistance of the connection
11:19 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwy8Tqx7zbU&feature=emb_logo
11:19 PM veegee: CaptHindsight I don't mind TIG welding either, just not sure how nicely copper wire would weld to aluminum
11:19 PM Tom_L: there were cases where that compound was not used in the wiring
11:19 PM CaptHindsight: How to Braze Aluminum to Copper
11:20 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: what gauge copper wires?
11:20 PM veegee: CaptHindsight 2/0 (9.266mm)
11:21 PM veegee: either 1/0 or 2/0
11:21 PM veegee: These will be connected to large LiFePO4 banks that are capable of putting out 100,000+ amps
11:21 PM CaptHindsight: just run them with a >100A load, the current will melt the oxide layer
11:21 PM CaptHindsight: that forms
11:22 PM veegee: ah so resistance welding
11:22 PM veegee: I could do that, with argon as shielding gas
11:22 PM CaptHindsight: it happens when you have them connected and under load
11:22 PM CaptHindsight: even in oxygen
11:22 PM veegee: Ah true
11:23 PM CaptHindsight: so it naturally occurs at the nano level
11:23 PM CaptHindsight: current will arc over the 4-40 angstroms of oxide
11:24 PM veegee: Ah ok, that's what I wanted to know, the mechanics of how the metal-metal joint forms
11:24 PM veegee: I was worried about the oxide layer acting as an insulator
11:26 PM CaptHindsight: if the connections get wet that is another story
11:26 PM CaptHindsight: or high humidity
11:26 PM CaptHindsight: what noalox helps with
11:28 PM CaptHindsight: https://blog.se.com/power-management-metering-monitoring-power-quality/2014/04/02/aluminium-inherently-good-bus-bars/
11:28 PM CaptHindsight: alumnium buss bars are also tin, copper or silver plated at the connection points