#linuxcnc Logs
Jan 14 2021
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:54 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:22 AM Deejay: moin
02:01 AM Loetmichel: mornin'
02:51 AM Loetmichel: *giggle* Coworker and me out smoking , he in hoddie, sweater and jeans, me in tshirt and jeans... him "maaan, its COOOLD outside!" $me: "nope, isnt. Yesterday was, though." He tilting his head sideways: "YOU indestructible...[trailing off]" :)
05:10 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:17 AM norias: ugh you're right
05:17 AM norias: it's morning
05:21 AM JT-Cave: wow I got a $29 a month raise
05:32 AM XXCoder: not bad but dont you your boss?
05:39 AM Tom_L: morning
05:39 AM XXCoder: yo
05:40 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, they'll just get it back in taxes
05:46 AM JT-Cave: lol
06:31 AM JT-Cave: at least it's above freezing this morning
06:39 AM XXCoder: :)
07:14 AM Tom_L: 47F hi 50
07:32 AM JT-Cave: 35°F - 52°F
08:37 AM beachbumpete1: Morning
08:41 AM satiowadahc: G'Morning
08:43 AM beachbumpete1: Still trying to figure out this Marlin Firmware issue on my printer but its making nice prints now
08:44 AM beachbumpete1: If I did not have to work for a living I would have much more time to mess with my hobbies ;)
08:48 AM satiowadahc: If only we could make money off our hobbies right?
08:49 AM gregcnc: you can, but soon enough you have to find new hobbies
08:50 AM satiowadahc: Blessing and a curse I spose to make your hobbies your day job
09:24 AM beachbumpete1: agreed
09:27 AM satiowadahc: its crazy how hot my laptop gets running linuxcnc
09:28 AM satiowadahc: across 12 cores not one goes over 15% cpu usage, but it can hit 110C
09:30 AM rs[m]: satiowadahc: are you running simulation or on rt kernel?
09:30 AM satiowadahc: Makes for a good coffee warmer with the side vent
09:30 AM satiowadahc: both?
09:30 AM rs[m]: you are running simulation on rt preempt?
09:30 AM satiowadahc: y
09:31 AM satiowadahc: yep*
09:31 AM rs[m]: you can try to pin linuxcnc to one cpu
09:31 AM rs[m]: maybe it allows the other cores to sleep
09:31 AM unterhaus_: Is the Qt thing really a change? I always felt they were a little toxic
09:33 AM satiowadahc: I figure the scheduler should keep rt events on the lowest core no?
09:33 AM satiowadahc: pyqtvcp?
09:34 AM rs[m]: satiowadahc: only if instructed to do so. you can achieve that with isolcpus=0 on kernel cmd line
09:39 AM satiowadahc: I may have to try that after this round of tests
09:40 AM satiowadahc: I'm trying to track down the import interpreter error that keeps popping up
10:05 AM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
10:32 AM unterhaus_: can you pause lcnc while running a program?
10:32 AM gregcnc: yes
10:33 AM unterhaus_: is there a problem if you raise z and then want to restart?
10:35 AM satiowadahc: theres a cycle start from line if I'm not mistaken
10:35 AM gregcnc: I don't think that's allowed with a pause
10:35 AM unterhaus_: yeah, I guess you could go back a line
10:35 AM satiowadahc: I mean pause->stop->jog->cycle resume from line
10:35 AM gregcnc: I've never successfully restarted an LCNC program but literally haven't tried in years
10:36 AM unterhaus_: I saw a post about it, andy seemed to think it works
10:36 AM unterhaus_: no, that was start from line
10:37 AM gregcnc: restart can be tricky even in commercial controls
10:37 AM gregcnc: what are you trying to solve?
10:37 AM unterhaus_: there is a lot of history that would have to be sorted from the motion commands that have been run
10:38 AM unterhaus_: there was a question on the machinekit list that made me wonder
10:38 AM gregcnc: right, LCNC didn't want to restart the spindle
10:38 AM gregcnc: and if already started it would stop before motion started
10:38 AM unterhaus_: nice
10:39 AM unterhaus_: I wonder if that is strictly necessary
10:39 AM gregcnc: my Emco run through the entire program from the start
10:39 AM gregcnc: in the background
10:40 AM unterhaus_: simulating until you get to the interrupted line seems like the way to do it
10:41 AM unterhaus_: I know this has been a subject of much discussion over the years, which I generally ignore
10:42 AM satiowadahc: I had done a miniscript on our GUI, that works for a simple xyz machine except for arc moves
10:42 AM unterhaus_: but if "run from line" works, that should be sorted
10:43 AM satiowadahc: it saves the spindle speed, xyz position, moves to safe Z, enables jogging, then when they resume they get a prompt to enable spindle, move to xy, move to z, and resume from line
10:44 AM satiowadahc: or 4 prompts rather
10:44 AM unterhaus_: that's nice, which gui?
10:45 AM satiowadahc: Loosely based off qtvcp
10:48 AM satiowadahc: https://pastebin.com/Y9D4Vk7h
10:55 AM Thorhian: So, with the field IO of a Mesa 7i76, I have it running with 12V. My limit switches are rated for 12V, along with other componants that I haven't installed yet like an air solenoid. I was told using an optocoupler would be good for operating things like relays and air solenoids, but it seems most optocouplers are expecting 5V or 3.3V. I want to make sure I don't fry my mesa boards, anyone have
10:55 AM Thorhian: any recomendations?
10:57 AM Thorhian: My spindle inputs and outputs I believe need 12V minimum, so I don't think I can go below 12V for field IO.
11:17 AM W1N9Zr0: you can put a 12v output into an opto as long as you add a series resistor to limit the current. read the opto datasheet to see what the typical current is
11:23 AM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: https://ohmslawcalculator.com/led-resistor-calculator
11:24 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tools/led-resistor-calculator/
11:56 AM JT-Cave: Thorhian, The 7I76s outputs can drive loads of up to 350 mA.
12:05 PM andypugh: Thorhian: Picking an optocoupler at random: https://docs.rs-online.com/a8b5/0900766b8143d808.pdf
12:06 PM andypugh: That’s OK with 80V on the output. The input is just a case of picking the right resistor for the working current.
12:08 PM andypugh: The ones designed for TTL logic output, of course, are 5V supply on the output side. But the same as above applies on the input.
12:08 PM satiowadahc: ... fixed it! but I did it on the wrong branch. Dammit
12:11 PM andypugh: satiowadahc: Do you think this belongs in a GUI or in the core code?
12:12 PM satiowadahc: I was working on https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/issues/825
12:12 PM satiowadahc: GUI probably, unless it could be canned
12:13 PM Thorhian: Wait, but isn't it bad to go over their rated voltage? You are basically saying the voltage doesn't matter as long as I don't overload them in current.
12:14 PM andypugh: One wrinkle, re-running the line that the stop happened on is OK in G94 mode, but could give a very low initial feed in G93. But that’s not as bad as a very high feed would be.
12:14 PM andypugh: Thorhian: The voltage across an LED is only ever the LED diode voltage.
12:14 PM satiowadahc: Theres quite a few issues with it, like I mentioned it only works on simple xyz, and can't stop on an arc move
12:15 PM andypugh: It would be possible, but more difficult, to synthesise a continuation arc/line, put that in the queue and start at the next line.
12:16 PM satiowadahc: Shop Foreman suggested going to the start of the ARC move with a warning of rerunning path
12:17 PM Thorhian: Okay andypugh. Does that mean the diode generates more heat if it receives more than the LED diode voltage, or does that somehow get converted into more current and then heat?
12:17 PM andypugh: More current, and poof!
12:18 PM andypugh: So you have an external resistor to keep the current at 10mA or so.
12:18 PM W1N9Zr0: the extra voltage goes into the current limiting resistor, not the LED
12:18 PM Thorhian: I am simply unfamiliar with how optocouplers/LEDs work. Total newbie.
12:19 PM satiowadahc: Shine a light on a solar panel, flashlight has its on power and won't get shocked from the solar panel's circuit
12:19 PM satiowadahc: its quite literally an LED shining on a photocell, an optical Isolated circuit
12:20 PM Thorhian: Okay. Makes sense. I just didn't know you could use higher than rated voltages on the LEDs, at least if you limit the current anyways.
12:21 PM W1N9Zr0: https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/219
12:21 PM Thorhian: Thank you W1N9Zr0
12:22 PM Thorhian: Nice to know that I am essentially dealing with an LED.
12:23 PM satiowadahc: Back to the Diode thing we were talking about almost all Diodes including Light Emitting Diodes drop voltage by 0.7V
12:23 PM andypugh: On the floor next to me is an interface board feeding rectified 240V into one side of an opto-isolator.
12:24 PM Thorhian: Holy crud andypugh
12:25 PM Thorhian: Man you guys are awesome. Thank you. Thanks for putting up with newbies.
12:29 PM Thorhian: I was going to buy some of these but I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to fry them when I tried using them. Guess I just need to keep the current down to around a few mA.
12:29 PM Thorhian: https://www.amazon.com/EL817-Optocoupler-Isolation-Board-Amplification/dp/B01L1OI1HC/
12:30 PM andypugh: Yes, you would just need to change R1 to suit the input voltage.
12:32 PM Thorhian: AKA, add another resistor.
12:34 PM andypugh: Desolder and replace.
12:40 PM NegativeK: Sooo, I was kindly directed here for a VFD question. I'm looking to connect a machine to a circuit that's underrated for the machine or the VFD. It looks like the VFD manual lets me cap the max output current so I don't flip a breaker from current inrush, but it's going to be a very heavy paperweight if I'm reading that wrong.
12:40 PM NegativeK: VFD in question is an AC Tech that takes both 120V and 240V single phase in.
12:42 PM andypugh: Yes, you should be able to limit the current. Whether that will give adequate motor performance is harder to say.
12:43 PM andypugh: But you stand a lot more chance with a VFD than running DOL.
12:43 PM NegativeK: DOL?
12:43 PM andypugh: Direct On Line
12:43 PM NegativeK: Oh lol yeah.
12:44 PM NegativeK: 3HP motor, 1.5HP VFD, 120V@15A service.
12:44 PM NegativeK: The numbers look like the motor will run fine at 1.5HP, just at decreased acceleration time?
12:44 PM andypugh: Can you run a 240V supply in?
12:44 PM NegativeK: Technically, but that's a harder sell for the landlord/significant other.
12:44 PM andypugh: Diesel Generator :-)
12:45 PM NegativeK: Hah! Yeah, that'll go over way easier. XD
12:46 PM rs[m]: motor current depends on load
12:46 PM NegativeK: Yeah.. What kind of shenanigans do a VFD pull when you hit the software set current limit?
12:47 PM NegativeK: The manual looks like it just slows down the acceleration, but during a cut.. Does it slow the rotation?
12:47 PM rs[m]: it will probably go into some fault mode
12:48 PM andypugh: Once the motor is up to synchronous speed it will probably hold there
12:48 PM NegativeK: Manual says "When the limit is reached, the drive displays CL(Current Limit), and either the acceleration time increases or the output frequency decreases.", which is fine -- but again, being wrong is going to be a huge pain in the butt.
12:49 PM rs[m]: with an AC induction motor, speed also depends on load (higher load = slightly lower speed)
12:49 PM NegativeK: Hm, gotcha.
12:50 PM rs[m]: so with higher load, motor wants to draw more current, if the vfd isn't able to supply that, it will either overheat or some safety will trip and the VFD goes into overload
12:51 PM NegativeK: Oh, just a safety in the VFD. Okay.
12:51 PM NegativeK: Briefly thought the motor would, which didn't make sense. And would be bad.
12:52 PM rs[m]: the motor will be okay
12:53 PM NegativeK: It kinda sounds like the manual's 'the output frequency decreases' will fuck with speeds and feed. But since it's a manual (sorry), that'll be noticeable.
12:54 PM rs[m]: ?
12:54 PM NegativeK: Er, it's a manual machine.
12:54 PM NegativeK: And the VFD doc said that output freqeuncy will drop. Poorly combined synonyms.
12:55 PM rs[m]: frequency is approximately proportional to (RPM + slip), slip increases with load
12:56 PM NegativeK: Oh, I thought the VFD doc was saying that it decreased its output frequency when it hits the soft current limit?
12:56 PM gregcnc: link to VFD?
12:56 PM NegativeK: VFD: https://www.wolfautomation.com/vfd-1-5hp-120-240v-single-phase-nema-1/ Doc: https://www.wolfautomation.com/media/pdf/ac-drives/actech/actech-smvector-nemaone/actech-lenze-smv-opinstruct-21.pdf
12:56 PM NegativeK: Current limit setting is p171, page 36.
01:00 PM rs[m]: look on page61, on overload, it should go into F_PF
01:01 PM NegativeK: Hm.
01:02 PM gregcnc: if you aren't using the PID as used for fans, the reduced frequency doesn't come into play
01:02 PM gregcnc: for a simple setup, it should just err
01:02 PM NegativeK: Ahhhh.
01:03 PM NegativeK: So in the case of a mill, the tool will stop and it'll crash.
01:03 PM gregcnc: connect drive fault to estop
01:04 PM NegativeK: It's manual with a power X, so the estop would also switch the power feeds..?
01:05 PM NegativeK: I guess that'd be good regardless of VFD junk.
01:05 PM rs[m]: NegativeK: it will take a while before it trips, you can overload for short periods of time. on a mill, you should moitor spindle load if you operate near limit.
01:05 PM rs[m]: monitor
01:05 PM gregcnc: no idea about power feeds, but you could certainly make a circuit to do that
01:05 PM NegativeK: Ahhh, okay.
01:07 PM gregcnc: with limited cutting power it's not a bad idea to check the power required for the cut
01:09 PM rs[m]: cutting power is always limited ;)
01:09 PM NegativeK: Hah.
01:09 PM gregcnc: unless the tool breaks first
01:09 PM rs[m]: whatever. or workpiece holding.
01:09 PM rs[m]: worst case the mill breaks ;)
01:09 PM gregcnc: that should never happen
01:10 PM NegativeK: I'll send pics if I snap a knee mill in half.
01:10 PM NegativeK: Just a hobbyist, though, so I'm okay with limited cutting power.
01:10 PM gregcnc: related https://youtu.be/_i-qp6B5K4w
01:10 PM NegativeK: :o
01:12 PM rs[m]: the company i worked for in another life developed a kind of realtime simulation model of a millturn and can predict catastrophic moves (and stop the mill before it cuts its own bed)
01:13 PM gregcnc: even if the length offset was wrong?
01:14 PM rs[m]: that probably not
01:14 PM rs[m]: but it can detect moves the control would be happy to execute that would lead to damage to the machine (even with correct tool offsets)
01:16 PM NegativeK: Where can you gather hp/in^3/min numbers from? Machinery's Handbook?
01:17 PM gregcnc: tool mfg sites, but google will turn up specific cutting power
01:17 PM NegativeK: Oh, I guess it's cutter specific as well?
01:17 PM rs[m]: sacrified animals
01:18 PM NegativeK: Unsure if sacrificial animals are interns.
01:18 PM gregcnc: yes, but nobody really gets that deep
01:18 PM NegativeK: Ah, gotcha.
01:18 PM gregcnc: otherwise https://zero-divide.net/?page=fswizard#
01:19 PM rs[m]: really interesting video
01:19 PM gregcnc: the thing is stalling has never been a problem for me. spindle stops machines stops
01:19 PM gregcnc: it's overloading and breaking a tool that's a pain.
01:22 PM gregcnc: with low spindle power i was calculating power for every cut. and if you're pushing the spindle or tool, your doing it for every cut
01:23 PM rs[m]: I tend to stall drills in aluminium
01:24 PM rs[m]: sometimes the drill breaks, sometimes the drill cold-welds itself into the alu
01:24 PM gregcnc: with coolant?
01:24 PM rs[m]: none ;)
01:24 PM gregcnc: following reasonable feed rates?
01:24 PM rs[m]: denatured alcohol
01:25 PM rs[m]: the problem seems to be partly low low-speed torque of the spindle
01:25 PM NegativeK: Oh, thanks for the VFD help, everyone. Even if it is part enablement. ;)
01:25 PM rs[m]: (low speed = <6000rpm or so)
01:26 PM gregcnc: what diameter?
01:27 PM rs[m]: 4 to 5mm
01:28 PM rs[m]: 5000rpm and 60mm per minute seems to work most of the time, but that seems off
01:28 PM andypugh: gregcnc: A shout out to skunkworks in that video
01:29 PM gregcnc: i'm not sure if KVV comes by here, I think he's on the fourm
01:29 PM miss0r: 'evening
01:29 PM gregcnc: 6 micron per tooth is rubbing
01:30 PM miss0r: sounds interresting :)
01:30 PM miss0r: gregcnc: I would have to agree
01:31 PM gregcnc: rs[m] is that also a HF spindle?
01:31 PM gregcnc: high frequency, not Harbor Freight
01:31 PM miss0r: :]
01:32 PM miss0r: Would any of you guys happen to know what material is typically used for the "hardened" valve seats in motorcycle engines?
01:32 PM gregcnc: stellite
01:32 PM miss0r: I'm having a hard time comming up with a recepie that works
01:33 PM miss0r: hah.. That makes sense then
01:34 PM rs[m]: gregcnc: it is a wood-spindle with around 10HP and 24000rpm @ 400Hz
01:34 PM miss0r: I deepened the valve indents in this guys pistons a while back. He came back with the 4-cylinder head, and asked me to bore out the valve seats.. for "moar powah" I would guess
01:34 PM andypugh: miss0r: Traditionally stellite.
01:35 PM andypugh: Ah, too late
01:35 PM gregcnc: feed at .05mm per tooth
01:35 PM miss0r: Thanks for the effort, though :)
01:35 PM gregcnc: confirmation, stellite was first thing that came to mind
01:36 PM miss0r: This stuff is eating my inserts. I ended up experiementing with a hand grind on a ceramic insert. It seems to be cutting to a proper surface finish now. It just had me wondering
01:37 PM rs[m]: 5000 rpm * 0,05mm * 2 = 500 mm per minute
01:43 PM gregcnc: rs[m] you could probably double feed. not enough feed results int he welding you see
01:55 PM rs[m]: i should probably measure rpm. feed above 100 tends to be problematic.
01:55 PM gregcnc: what happens?
01:56 PM rs[m]: stall
01:57 PM gregcnc: might be the drive can't run the motor effectively at speeds that low
01:58 PM rs[m]: yeah, the drive is also suspicious and needs to be replaced. >25 year old control technique vfd
01:59 PM rs[m]: the main pain point is it disables all touch screens and mousepads in the vicinity at certain speeds ;)
02:00 PM JT-Shop: nice AD changed the color order on the com cable...
02:00 PM unterhaus_: it's a bit annoying that teknik doesn't have a nema 42 clearpath servo
02:00 PM unterhaus_: I'm sure there is an application for nema 56
02:17 PM veegee_: XXCoder I bought it
02:17 PM veegee_: It weighs 5,700 lbs
02:17 PM veegee_: 5,500 lb pallet jack lifts it. Looks decent
02:18 PM gregcnc: andypugh or anyone in the UK on a typical import order do you pay VAT on shipping?
03:27 PM perry_j1987: ok day 2 of trying to find my crimp connectors
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: did you look under, inside and behind everything?
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: if so, it's time to buy new ones
03:34 PM perry_j1987: i rememmber setting them out because i had this project upcomming
03:35 PM perry_j1987: so they should be visible heh
03:36 PM serp: If they aren't sitting directly beside you within reach it's time to order new ones
03:37 PM perry_j1987: ya but more time
03:37 PM perry_j1987: ah maybe if i re-open the same drawer a few more times it will magically appear
03:45 PM satiowadahc: Where did you last have them? Did you look there ? /s
03:45 PM perry_j1987: prob is i moved everything around getting this lathe moved in here lol
03:46 PM perry_j1987: now ive lost all my chaos theory placements
04:08 PM XXCoder: veegee_: nice, hope its nice :)
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: cordless drill wars https://imgur.com/gallery/GEEQPih
04:21 PM andypugh: gregcnc: Yes, we have to pay duty on the price plus the shipping, then VAT on that total.
04:22 PM perry_j1987: there we go got the new terminal blocks installed
04:22 PM perry_j1987: nice looking
04:32 PM gregcnc: andypugh thank you
04:34 PM perry_j1987: how close can these parallel BOBS be to VFDs and toroids
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: perry_j1987: properly wired and star ground pretty close
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: perry_j1987: have a pic?
04:42 PM perry_j1987: http://www.techno-isel.com/tic/LMImages/technolp.jpg
04:42 PM perry_j1987: best pic i could find heh
04:43 PM perry_j1987: got the board out of there and setup the power supply and terminal blocks
04:43 PM perry_j1987: just gotta mount blocks for dc side next but figguring out where to mount the BOB and g320 drives now
04:44 PM perry_j1987: i'd like to mount the BOB right above the toroid so i dont have to extend wires
04:50 PM perry_j1987: ok mounted
04:50 PM Tom_itx: too close
04:51 PM CaptHindsight: how right above?
04:51 PM perry_j1987: about 6" from both
04:52 PM Tom_itx: just wrap it in aluminum foil... it'll be fine :)
04:52 PM perry_j1987: actually farther from toroid
04:52 PM CaptHindsight: pictured it mounted on the stud https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/KL-3815-back1-1024x1024.jpg
04:53 PM JT-Shop: andypugh, as of February the UK requires shippers to collect VAT and pay UK quarterly
04:53 PM Tom_itx: that's a crock
04:53 PM gregcnc: effective 1/1/2021
04:53 PM JT-Shop: no it's real, got an email from stamps.com warning me
04:54 PM Tom_itx: how do they plan to collect from a global market?
04:54 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: US shipper to collect VAT and then pay the UK?
04:54 PM gregcnc: if the order is over £135 nothing has changed
04:54 PM gregcnc: yes, they want you to setup an account with them
04:54 PM JT-Shop: they didn't expand on how they plan to collect
04:54 PM JT-Shop: CaptHindsight, yep
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: Mi5 agent will be sent
04:55 PM perry_j1987: lol
04:55 PM Tom_itx: perry_j1987 laughs as the doorbell rings...
04:56 PM gregcnc: my parts are small so I'm dead. I can't require a 185USD minimum order to UK
04:56 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
04:56 PM andypugh: It’s a ludicrous idea .
04:56 PM andypugh: And it isn’t what any other country in the world requires.
04:57 PM gregcnc: if you sell through ebay to UK, they will collect it for you, but you better be ready for the financial abuse which ensues
04:58 PM andypugh: They have been collecting VAT at the point of import for ever, the new thing is just crazy.
04:58 PM gregcnc: ebay give you the pleasure of paying final values fees on shipping, and this VAT they collect
04:59 PM andypugh: What is _actually_ happening is that everyone is refusing to selll to the UK. And I can’t say that I blame them.
04:59 PM gregcnc: seems like the cost to handle VAT on small orders was what they wanted to eliminate
05:02 PM JT-Shop: yea, I'm not doing their work for them
05:03 PM Tom_L: andypugh, any progress on the flexspline?
05:03 PM andypugh: Not really. I am buried deep in “LinuxCNC raspberry pi kernel has no USB with neewe Pi’s"
05:04 PM Tom_L: mmm
05:04 PM andypugh: I have been building kernel packages for the last week or so. With limited success.
05:04 PM JT-Shop: did they change something with the pi4 os or hardware?
05:05 PM gregcnc: JT-Shop if the order valued is over £135 you just ship as always
05:05 PM JT-Shop: gregcnc, I sell in $
05:05 PM gregcnc: OK 185USD
05:05 PM JT-Shop: dunno what 135 pounds is worth
05:06 PM JT-Shop: usually it's under that value
05:06 PM gregcnc: oh that doesn't help
05:06 PM andypugh: JT-Shop: Yes
05:07 PM JT-Shop: andypugh, change in rasbian or hardware?
05:08 PM JT-Shop: hmm I see a new release of raspberry pi os on jan 11th
05:10 PM JT-Shop: wonderful it's starting to rain and I have $7k of electronics on a FedEx truck out for delivery
05:10 PM andypugh: They dropped the eprom that supplied the USB chip firmware.
05:10 PM andypugh: The USB chip is now programmed with a file from the SD card.
05:11 PM JT-Shop: so a new rpi4
05:11 PM JT-Shop: wonderful
05:12 PM andypugh: linux-image-5.4.83-rt48-v7l+_5.4.83-rt48-v7l+-4_armhf.deb might do the trick, fresh off the production line.
05:12 PM andypugh: (as in https://www.linuxcnc.org/temp/linux-image-5.4.83-rt48-v7l+_5.4.83-rt48-v7l+-4_armhf.deb )
05:13 PM CaptHindsight: still at the mercy of the Broadcom firmware BLOB
05:23 PM perry_j1987: hmm i could use a 9v battery to the vfd to test the spindle as long as i jumper the run/start eh?
05:23 PM gregcnc: use a 0-10V battery
05:48 PM JT-Cave: ordered 72 push buttons got 77...
05:49 PM andypugh: I just ordered a new Pi4. I will be very annoyed if it’s one of the ones that works.
05:50 PM JT-Cave: wow that's a gamble
05:50 PM XXCoder: really? qa that bad?
05:51 PM JT-Cave: <andypugh> They dropped the eprom that supplied the USB chip firmware.
05:51 PM JT-Cave: <andypugh> The USB chip is now programmed with a file from the SD card.
05:51 PM JT-Cave: XXCoder, ^^
05:51 PM XXCoder: weird
05:51 PM XXCoder: in order to get costs down i guess
05:52 PM JT-Cave: yea 0.001c
05:52 PM XXCoder: including labor costs likely more but yeah not that much I bet
05:52 PM JT-Cave: long day here... got two big boxes of electronics at 5:30pm
05:53 PM JT-Cave: been prepping all day for the build out of the 9 target retrieval systems I designed
05:54 PM JT-Cave: naturally they want them last week
06:00 PM XXCoder: apparently theres new beagleboard coming
06:00 PM XXCoder: jt of course its either last week or too late lol
06:01 PM JT-Cave: yeah, you will get them when I'm done and not a minute before
06:07 PM JT-Cave: andypugh, you need to finish that clock!
06:08 PM andypugh: JT-Cave: I have concluded that I am a tool-maker, not a maker.
06:09 PM andypugh: I find it most interesting to make things to make things. Or even things to make things to make things.
06:09 PM JT-Cave: I know that feeling sometimes spending all your time making things to make things you never have time to make
06:10 PM JT-Cave: I still like to finish a project from time to time
06:10 PM JT-Cave: even if it is just chicken furniture
06:11 PM andypugh: I got the radiator gill punch finished. But that was easier as it was for someone else. A bit like yout chicke furniture.
06:12 PM unterhaus_: I would like to finish some of my projects to make tools. I burned out on the lathe dro project, should revisit that
06:12 PM unterhaus_: and, of course, make the mill move
06:15 PM XXCoder: banana
06:15 PM perry_j1987: ok got one of the servos disconnected from the ballscrew
06:16 PM perry_j1987: so incase it goes crazy while im figuring out the config... heh
06:18 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +vv by rothfuss.freenode.net
06:23 PM Tom_L: andypugh, you'd think the 'new' rpi would have a new designator... rpi4a ?
06:24 PM andypugh: As far as just anout any customer but me cares, they are identical.
06:24 PM Tom_L: heh figures
06:41 PM perry_j1987: whew
06:41 PM perry_j1987: snowing out
06:50 PM perry_j1987: im gettin close
06:50 PM perry_j1987: startin to setup the config :)
06:50 PM perry_j1987: getting exciting
06:56 PM perry_j1987: what is amplifier enable?
07:10 PM CaptHindsight: perry_j1987: a signal typically used to enable and disable a servo amp or motor driver
07:11 PM perry_j1987: k
07:12 PM perry_j1987: so this machine has limit switches both ends of the axis
07:14 PM perry_j1987: read ohms till i press one of the switches
07:14 PM perry_j1987: the x switches are wired together and out to one plug so there are ohms till you press either of the switches so thats series
07:15 PM perry_j1987: the z limits they ran through separate plugs instead of the same arangement
07:16 PM perry_j1987: so gotta set stepconf to all limits + homes for one of the input pins
07:29 PM CaptHindsight: perry_j1987: " there are ohms till you press either of the switches so thats series"
07:29 PM perry_j1987: NC in series right?
07:29 PM CaptHindsight: perry_j1987: many many, very high ohms? JTBC
07:30 PM perry_j1987: i jsut had the meter set to beep
07:30 PM CaptHindsight: NC = normally closed
07:30 PM CaptHindsight: so beep = continuity
07:30 PM CaptHindsight: but what are measuring across?
07:30 PM CaptHindsight: what are you measuring across?
07:31 PM perry_j1987: two wires coming back into the cabinet
07:31 PM CaptHindsight: not enough info
07:31 PM CaptHindsight: across the switch contacts?
07:31 PM perry_j1987: cant access the switches
07:31 PM perry_j1987: potted in silicone
07:31 PM CaptHindsight: NO = normally open
07:32 PM CaptHindsight: what triggers the switches? Can you access that?
07:32 PM perry_j1987: microswitches soldered to two fartherst contacts on the switches wich is NC
07:32 PM perry_j1987: if i press the switch it stops beeping
07:32 PM CaptHindsight: beeping means continuity or low ohms/resistance
07:33 PM perry_j1987: continuity
07:33 PM CaptHindsight: sounds to me like you have NO contacts
07:33 PM CaptHindsight: normally open
07:33 PM perry_j1987: but.. it breaks the circuit once you press the switch
07:33 PM CaptHindsight: oh sorry, it beeps until you press the switch?
07:34 PM perry_j1987: ya
07:34 PM CaptHindsight: OK then Normally Closed = NC
07:35 PM perry_j1987: aye
07:35 PM perry_j1987: so i have the x switches wired in series already coming into the cabinet
07:35 PM CaptHindsight: Normally Closed = NC, low resistance when not pushed, Beep!
07:36 PM perry_j1987: the z switches are separate so i have to series everything together somehow
07:36 PM CaptHindsight: put the Z in series with the XY switches
07:37 PM CaptHindsight: 2 wires from each set of switches
07:37 PM CaptHindsight: use one wire from each set and connect them to each other
07:38 PM CaptHindsight: the two remaining wires are now the two contacts
07:38 PM CaptHindsight: these two get wired to the limit switch input of the BOB
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/images/switch-nc-series.png
07:40 PM perry_j1987: there we go now all switches beep till any are pressed
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/stepconf.html#_home_and_limit_switch_wiring_options
07:44 PM perry_j1987: ty
07:44 PM perry_j1987: gotta figure out this spindle vfd config next
07:44 PM perry_j1987: it is already programmed for analog 0-10v
07:45 PM perry_j1987: my old lathe i just manually operated the speed control
07:48 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/40438-making-0-10v-output-work-with-spindle-in-hal?start=10
07:50 PM CaptHindsight: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Analog_Spindle_Speed_Control
07:50 PM CaptHindsight: perry_j1987: which break out board are you using? I think you posted it but i don't remember
07:51 PM perry_j1987: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32946581342.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.0.0.7f1a5fe37FjwC0
07:51 PM perry_j1987: really hoping to see some movement tonight no mater how late it takes heh
08:06 PM jdh: you are using a $3 breakout ?
08:20 PM perry_j1987: it was 9 bucks on amazon lol
08:21 PM perry_j1987: its just to get things moving to test this thing out before getting a mesa setup
08:21 PM CaptHindsight: perry_j1987: I have some of those here
08:22 PM CaptHindsight: $10 on ebay
08:23 PM CaptHindsight: perry_j1987: you should be able to use http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/stepconf.html
08:23 PM CaptHindsight: and have them going in a few minutes
08:24 PM CaptHindsight: when you test each axis and you get no movement be sure to double check your wiring and if you swapped Step with Dir
08:24 PM CaptHindsight: those are the most common mistakes
08:24 PM perry_j1987: i got estop and limit switches wired up so far
08:25 PM perry_j1987: i got one of the servos taken off the ballscrew i'll test with first
08:25 PM perry_j1987: incase it goes crazy heh
08:25 PM perry_j1987: i gotta figure out this spindle stuff next
08:25 PM perry_j1987: i just need one direction for the moment
08:27 PM perry_j1987: wiring up the spindle encoder atm
08:29 PM CaptHindsight: oh you have servos
08:29 PM CaptHindsight: sorry was thinking steppers
08:30 PM CaptHindsight: do you have closed loop steppers with internal encoders?
08:30 PM CaptHindsight: closed loop steppers/servos are controlled via the BOB the same as open loop steppers
08:31 PM CaptHindsight: what are you using for motor drives? Are they Step and Dir servo drives?
08:31 PM perry_j1987: i have g320x drives
08:31 PM perry_j1987: so still step/dir
08:32 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.geckodrive.com/g320x-digital-servo-drive.html
08:37 PM perry_j1987: figuring out this spindle encoders wiring now on this db15 connector
08:44 PM perry_j1987: one sec gotta switch hotspots
09:02 PM perry_j1987: CaptHindsight so you got these BOBS
09:02 PM perry_j1987: its diff than my other ones
09:02 PM perry_j1987: looks like bottom right corner has 5v on them
09:03 PM perry_j1987: whats diff between PCGND and GND over near the inputs?
09:04 PM XXCoder: Pc ground and presumely power supply ground
09:07 PM perry_j1987: any reason not to have spindle encoder and limitswitches on the pcgnd and pc5v
09:08 PM XXCoder: im not sure, its been a while for me, and my setup was considerable simpler
09:12 PM CaptHindsight: the board isolates the LPT signals from the spindle and motors drivers
09:13 PM CaptHindsight: GND is referenced to the 0-10V and the power supply for the spindle
09:15 PM CaptHindsight: PC GND and PC 5V is for the common anode connects to the motor drivers
09:15 PM unterhaus: maintain isolation wherever you can
09:16 PM CaptHindsight: ah this BOB only isolates the e-stop and limit home switches from the LPT port
09:17 PM CaptHindsight: the LPT is only buffered to drive the Step and Dir for the drives
09:17 PM CaptHindsight: the BOB counts on the motor drives to have optoisolated inputs
09:18 PM jdh]: save $0.12 on more optos?
09:19 PM CaptHindsight: https://i0.wp.com/www.ijohnsen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/bob-mj58.png
09:19 PM CaptHindsight: https://i1.wp.com/www.ijohnsen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/BOB-wiring-diagram.jpg
09:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://i1.wp.com/www.ijohnsen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/bob-banggood-image.png
09:20 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ijohnsen.com/blog/linuxcnc-mach3-breakout-board/
09:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://i2.wp.com/www.ijohnsen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/bob-mj57.png
09:21 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ijohnsen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/5axis_breakout_board-EN.pdf
09:22 PM CaptHindsight: jdh]: the target motor drives for that BOB designs for for drives with optos on their inputs
09:22 PM CaptHindsight: for/are
09:23 PM CaptHindsight: he still links to Archivist's server
09:23 PM CaptHindsight: anyone hear from Archivist in the past few years?
09:27 PM perry_j1987: getting close to test fire up
09:27 PM CaptHindsight: jdh]: this might be the schematic for this BOB https://www.electronics-lab.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Parallel-Port-Breakout-CNC-SCH.png
09:27 PM perry_j1987: got the 0-10 hooked up now
09:27 PM perry_j1987: gotta figure out what i need to just enable run on it
09:27 PM perry_j1987: reading datasheet now on this vfd
09:28 PM CaptHindsight: jdh]: but it's missing the PWM circuit for the spindle
09:31 PM perry_j1987: ok now wiring should be done to test the spindle
09:31 PM perry_j1987: now to verify the stepconf is right
09:34 PM perry_j1987: looks like it should be set
09:34 PM perry_j1987: ugh i dread first powerups lol
09:42 PM perry_j1987: hmm hal doesnt show any activity on homeswitches
09:43 PM perry_j1987: doublechecked still beeps till i press one of the switches
09:48 PM perry_j1987: ok
09:48 PM CaptHindsight: perry_j1987: are you in stepconf?
09:48 PM perry_j1987: so the pc5v has 5v
09:48 PM perry_j1987: with the pcgnd
09:49 PM perry_j1987: but the gnd next to the inputs that everything is wired too is not shared with the pc5v
09:49 PM CaptHindsight: are you using the proper LPT base address?
09:49 PM CaptHindsight: are you supplying the BOB with USB 5V?
09:50 PM perry_j1987: ya
09:50 PM perry_j1987: i dont have a 12/24 hookd up yet though
09:52 PM perry_j1987: but i tested the screw terminals on the bob where the switches are hooked to and gnd pin and and beeps until i press one of the switches
09:53 PM perry_j1987: k give me min
09:54 PM perry_j1987: im guessing those inputs are powered by the 12/24v heh
09:54 PM perry_j1987: thats what the issue is
09:57 PM CaptHindsight: you can test each axis in stepcong
09:57 PM CaptHindsight: just ignore the limit switches in the config for now
09:58 PM CaptHindsight: but only run the drives for a few mm each direction and be sure they are not near the limits
10:04 PM CaptHindsight: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Parallel_Port_Tester
10:08 PM perry_j1987: yep that was it heh
10:08 PM perry_j1987: limitswitches showing now in hal monitor
10:18 PM perry_j1987: 10v on the 0-10v line even with estop flipped on axis heh
10:19 PM Tom_L: is it wired to a pwm signal?
10:19 PM perry_j1987: ya pin 1 on stepconf this board says pin1 is the pwm to analog
10:19 PM Tom_L: you also have enable lines for the vfd
10:20 PM Tom_L: to prevent it moving
10:21 PM perry_j1987: what do you mean
10:21 PM Tom_L: just that. doesn't the vfd have an inhibit line?
10:26 PM perry_j1987: ok had to invert the pwm signal for this board
10:26 PM perry_j1987: now its working
10:27 PM perry_j1987: now to figure out the VFD wiring it appeared like i just had to bridge couple pins to gnd for it to be in forward and run mode
10:27 PM perry_j1987: https://www.precision-elec.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/lenze-ac-tech-scf-instruction-manual.pdf
10:27 PM perry_j1987: sec 11.0
10:29 PM Tom_L: looks like it can be wired for a pot for manual control too
10:30 PM perry_j1987: ok on power up VFD shows 312 then --- and then UF
10:31 PM perry_j1987: which does not show in error msg on this datasheet...
10:31 PM perry_j1987: SF110S vfd
10:31 PM perry_j1987: ac tech
10:31 PM Tom_L: P25 shows 312 and ---
10:34 PM Tom_L: UF: Start Fault: Start command was present when the drive was powered up. Must wait 2 seconds after power-up to apply Start command if START METHOD is set to NORMAL
10:34 PM perry_j1987: where did you see that
10:34 PM Tom_L: P49
10:35 PM perry_j1987: hah i got spindle moving
10:35 PM perry_j1987: first time i've seen/heard this lathe
10:37 PM perry_j1987: oh man im happy
10:37 PM Tom_L: yay
10:37 PM Tom_L: now i'm gonna sleep
10:38 PM perry_j1987: if i turn spindle off
10:38 PM perry_j1987: its jerking at a slow speed
10:54 PM mrec: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005001815891035.html
10:54 PM mrec: is this already integrated in linuxcnc?
10:57 PM XXCoder: hate how aliexpress links change my language setting there lol
10:57 PM XXCoder: i dont know why they dont have english setting
10:58 PM mrec: try:
10:58 PM mrec: https://en.aliexpress.com/item/1005001815891035.html
10:59 PM mrec: not working :-)
11:04 PM mrec: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001815891035.html
11:04 PM mrec: easier
11:07 PM XXCoder: yeah can change languages, just bit griping how literally any language specific urls change language settings for next time lol
11:07 PM XXCoder: its specific to aliexpress
11:07 PM perry_j1987: so the 0-10v line still has 0.2 volts when i turn the spindle off
11:08 PM mrec: I get all kind of languages from google on aliexpress, russian, french, chinese, german
11:08 PM perry_j1987: as measured with multi meter
11:47 PM mrec: is there no package manager available for such kind of extensions?
11:47 PM mrec: linuxcnc specific mackage manager for plugins?
11:53 PM mrec: ok the handwheel seems to work