#linuxcnc Logs

Jan 08 2021

#linuxcnc Calendar

02:00 AM veegee_: I think I want to get a universal mill, any suggestions?
02:07 AM veegee_: Something nice and rigid, in the 4,000-8,000 lb range
02:07 AM XXCoder: nice
02:07 AM XXCoder: yeah no idea, my only experence is mostly older machines or big ones
02:07 AM veegee_: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1543486981
02:07 AM veegee_: I went and saw this machine
02:07 AM veegee_: For the price, I'm thinking can't go wrong
02:07 AM XXCoder: not bad
02:07 AM XXCoder: did you was able to look into some of gearing and mechicisms?
02:07 AM veegee_: But I'm getting a bad feeling in my gut about the guy selling it
02:08 AM XXCoder: so if even spindle is dead its still pretty worth it, i dont know what else to think about on checking over
02:09 AM XXCoder: s you already said backlash is acceptable
02:09 AM CaptHindsight: veegee_: what is available near you?
02:09 AM veegee_: Plenty of machinery dealers, but obviously price is a factor
02:09 AM veegee_: This one is very cheap and I went to examine it up close and play with it
02:09 AM veegee_: Spindle definitely not dead
02:09 AM CaptHindsight: YEONG CHIN
02:10 AM veegee_: and it's a 40 taper universal mill
02:10 AM veegee_: Yeah they don't make manual machines anymore
02:10 AM veegee_: but they're your standard Taiwanese manual machine manufacturer
02:10 AM veegee_: Meehanite castings, good quality
02:10 AM veegee_: it has box ways
02:10 AM veegee_: Fuck it, I'll buy it
02:10 AM CaptHindsight: worth it for $1k canandian
02:10 AM veegee_: 900
02:10 AM veegee_: Negotiated it down lol
02:10 AM CaptHindsight: unless it is beat to hell
02:11 AM veegee_: no
02:11 AM veegee_: it's dirty but it can be power washed off
02:11 AM CaptHindsight: why not?
02:11 AM veegee_: The gibs need adjustment
02:11 AM CaptHindsight: machines up by you are cheap
02:11 AM veegee_: when locks are tightened, no play in the ways
02:11 AM CaptHindsight: sure and the lead screw is worn
02:11 AM veegee_: CaptHindsight no I'm just good at finding deals
02:11 AM veegee_: and I'm patient
02:12 AM veegee_: There are plenty of expensive ones
02:12 AM veegee_: It also has an automatic oiler
02:12 AM veegee_: so the operator can't really forget to oil it
02:12 AM veegee_: I guess that's why the slide ways looked as good as they did
02:14 AM veegee_: https://sharp-industries.com/product/vh-3/
02:14 AM veegee_: That would be a great machine
02:15 AM veegee_: Add the ball screw option and do a hybrid CNC/manual conversion
02:15 AM veegee_: I feel like I want a hybrid machine much more than a VMC
02:20 AM veegee_: I was taking some heavy cuts today with a 3/4" endmill and my bridgeport clone was vibrating at the head
02:20 AM veegee_: That's how I know it's time to bring in a monster vertical mill for those operations
02:28 AM CaptHindsight: bye fornow
02:32 AM veegee_: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/sarnia/reduced-cincinnati-vertical-milling-machine/1116170989
02:32 AM veegee_: Look at that monster
03:35 AM Deejay: moin
04:26 AM Tom_L: morning
05:12 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:12 AM XXCoder: mornings
05:35 AM Tom_L: 28F Hi 39
06:05 AM JT-Cave: 32°F to 37°F not much spread with scattered flurries all day
06:12 AM JT-Cave: https://jethornton.github.io/7i96/install.html
06:42 AM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
06:58 AM miss0r: g'day
07:39 AM JT-Cave: yo
07:44 AM miss0r: you hanging in there, over there? :)
07:44 AM JT-Cave: yea, hiding out in the woods lol
07:45 AM JT-Cave: way too much work lately, no time for fun stuff
07:45 AM miss0r: hehe safest place to be I guess :)
07:45 AM miss0r: I hear'ya
07:45 AM XXCoder: jt better than not enough! :D
07:45 AM miss0r: I've been beyond busy as of late.
07:45 AM miss0r: 80+ hours/week
07:45 AM JT-Cave: well not really when you're supposed to be semi-retired lol
07:46 AM miss0r: semi-retarted* :-P
07:46 AM JT-Cave: I retired from architectural fabrication when I finished that fence
07:48 AM miss0r: I had a fscked up electrical error yesterday on a mill that did not want to start up, saying that the control psu voltage was off,
07:49 AM miss0r: Every time you went reset the emergency stop, it would error out saying this. I could see that the PSU flashed its OVERLOAD led.
07:50 AM miss0r: Naturaly I thought there must be some short somewhere after the relays that are switched on when the emergency stop is reset. Nothing to be found
07:50 AM miss0r: I then measured the amperage going out of the PSU and found that only 300mA was dragging it down. Then my next conclution was that the PSU was bad.
07:50 AM miss0r: Then I replaced the PSU.
07:51 AM miss0r: SAME ERROR
07:51 AM miss0r: Then I got the idea to measure the input voltage of the PSU.. mainly for shits'n giggles :D
07:51 AM miss0r: It is supposed to be 230 volts(neutral and phase)
07:51 AM miss0r: it measured 135volts un loaded and dropped to 95 just to idle the PSU.
07:52 AM miss0r: Turns out the machine only gets three phases in, no neutral. Then it has a stepdown transformer that makes a floating neutral and 230volt for the PSU
07:52 AM miss0r: and the main breaker of the machine had a faulty contact, so the transformer was one phase short, and made this fscked up error :)
07:53 AM miss0r: I was one hour in before I realized.. lol. Usualy a spotty PSU is not caused by a lost phase.. In most cases this results in something not working _at_all_.
07:54 AM miss0r: There you have it. This concludes the tale of a strange electrical repair
07:54 AM JT-Cave: sometimes trouble shooting electrical problems can be frustrating
07:54 AM miss0r: yup.
07:55 AM miss0r: I had an even more frustrating job during the christmas "holidays"... :)
07:55 AM miss0r: A leaky tool revolver for a cnc lathe.
07:55 AM miss0r: I replaced all the worn out seals in there. It was still leaking!
07:55 AM JT-Cave: is it a Hardinge?
07:56 AM miss0r: Turns out that it had a production fault in it. Apparently the chrome on the piston rod in there did not bond proberly to the steel underneath. So a surface scratch on either side of the seal, made the oil migrate UNDERNEATH the chrome coating!
07:56 AM miss0r: I went and got it rechromed and ground. Now it is working as intented :)
07:57 AM miss0r: Nah. some chinesium called "yang"
07:57 AM JT-Cave: wow
07:57 AM miss0r: yeah. I guess theres a first time for everything :D
07:57 AM miss0r: First time I experienced that particular fault anyway
07:57 AM JT-Cave: my Hardinge CHNC leaks air like it's free
07:58 AM XXCoder: gasp! air arent free! (when work have been done to it)
07:58 AM miss0r: indeed
07:58 AM miss0r: air leaks cost a fortune :)
07:58 AM miss0r: (not even kidding here)
07:59 AM JT-Cave: I completely rebuilt the turrent and it still leaks
07:59 AM miss0r: if you have the drawings of it, I wouldn't mind giving it a look
08:01 AM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge-gallery.xhtml
08:01 AM JT-Cave: some photos of it
08:01 AM miss0r: is the air for the clamp/unclamp part of the turret/revolver?
08:02 AM JT-Cave: and the air motor to turn it
08:02 AM miss0r: alright. The pictures are cute'n all, but I can't make out much. If you have the proper spare parts drawings/explotion diagrams I could perhaps be of assistance
08:03 AM JT-Cave: I don't have anything except the paper drawings
08:03 AM miss0r: if you ever feel like taking a photo of them/scanning them, I can have a look ;)
08:03 AM JT-Cave: ok
08:04 AM miss0r: This is already having all the prospects of a busy year. :) only one week in and I have already have to reschedule 4 apointments... *sigh*
08:05 AM miss0r: I realy do hope it will cool off at some point in the near future. I have a land rover RV to complete before summer
08:09 AM JT-Cave: I hear that
08:09 AM JT-Cave: time to start my chicken day...
08:35 AM jdh]: slaved to the chix
08:36 AM XXCoder: dont let jdh egg you in jt
08:36 AM jdh]: brain got scrambled in 'retirement'?
08:37 AM XXCoder: nah my brain shell is too tough for that
08:41 AM JavaBean: too many years checking it against engine blocks??
08:44 AM XXCoder: lol
09:15 AM gregcnc: perry_j1987 if you need a draw bar through the spindle does that leave enough bore for your parts?
09:16 AM gregcnc: there are a few front mount options
10:57 AM perry_j1987: I need to fit 5/8 max
10:59 AM gregcnc: you may be able to come up with a draw tube that works
10:59 AM gregcnc: part of the problem is finding actuators
11:01 AM gregcnc: also something like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/202978358789
11:21 AM perry_j1987: how does that work?
11:24 AM gregcnc: just like the through spindle lever darwbar actuator but mounts on the front
11:24 AM perry_j1987: i've never seen one like that
11:24 AM gregcnc: https://youtu.be/BSxudROCemI
11:24 AM gregcnc: hire this guy instead
11:25 AM perry_j1987: if only he worked that fast in real life lol
11:29 AM perry_j1987: that doesnt look too tough to implement though
11:29 AM perry_j1987: and would keep the spindle bore wide open too
11:30 AM gregcnc: just needs a cylinder
11:31 AM gregcnc: there are 5C collet versions
11:33 AM perry_j1987: once i get this machine up and running that will be the eventual goal of this thing
11:34 AM perry_j1987: have automated collet system and bar puller
11:34 AM gregcnc: only way to do volume, how are you doing it now?
11:36 AM perry_j1987: right now i have a biological collet closer
11:36 AM perry_j1987: its slow, sometimes complains and requires being fed and housed heh
11:37 AM perry_j1987: my g320x drives arrive today
11:42 AM jdh]: what do they expect for encoders signalling?
11:46 AM perry_j1987: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=299472&d=1448923108
11:46 AM perry_j1987: quadrature
11:53 AM perry_j1987: caps and bridge rectifiers come tomorrow and sunday
12:14 PM mrec: _unreal_: which program do you use for generting g-code?
12:36 PM Thorhian: So my servo motor has 3 pairs of outputs for the encoder output, A, B, and Z. My 7i76 board only has A, B along with an "IDX+" and IDX-" interface for encoder input. Anyone here familiar with encoder outputs that can help me lol?
12:39 PM jdh]: z is index pulse
12:40 PM Thorhian: Is that what would wire up to the IDX+ and IDX- pins on my mesa board? ID for "InDex pulse"?
12:41 PM rs[m]: InDeX
12:41 PM Thorhian: Ah, I see. So thats how I would wire it up :D
12:42 PM Thorhian: Thanks you guys! I was trying to see if I could use some bulk CAT6 I have access to for wiring up in the encoder to the mesa board, and it seems to have the perfect amount of twisted pairs :)
12:44 PM Thorhian: BTW, there is also an "OZ" pin on the encoder output. Any idea what that is?
12:50 PM perry_j1987: think i seen a movie called OZ once or twice :)
12:50 PM rs[m]: Thorhian: have a complete list of pins of your servo?
12:51 PM rs[m]: s/servo/encoder/
12:54 PM gregcnc: Z on encoder is typically index
12:54 PM gregcnc: but as always spec sheet above all
01:11 PM Thorhian: rs[m]: I do, For the encoder it's just the ABZ pairs, OZ, and ground.
01:12 PM gregcnc: model number?
01:20 PM Thorhian: Unfortunately I don't have a good model number for the motor/servo driver. It's chinese. I've looked. The model number for motor is 110st_m06030 and the drive is labled as KRS 30A.
01:21 PM rs[m]: Thorhian: i would be surprised if the encoder would not need some kind of power supply around 5-24V
01:24 PM rs[m]: Thorhian: what drive do you connect the motor to?
01:24 PM Thorhian: The encoder is already powered. The servo drive handles that. The drive came with the motor and like I said it's labled as a "KRS 30A".
01:24 PM gregcnc: So does it work?
01:25 PM Thorhian: I have been using the motor on the mill manually, not controlled by LinuxCNC. Right now I'm just planning out how to wire it up to my Mesa 7i76.
01:25 PM gregcnc: Is OZ on the endcoder or drive?
01:25 PM rs[m]: and you don't need to connect the encoder to the drive?
01:27 PM Thorhian: The encoder is hooked up to the drive already. The drive has an encoder output to let the CNC controller know the current state/rotation speed of the motor. OZ is an output pin from the drive that is listed in the manual's page for the drive's encoder output pins along with the ABZ pins and ground.
01:28 PM Thorhian: Heck, the drive won't run the motor if the encoder isn't plugged in lol
01:28 PM gregcnc: is there also OA and OB?
01:28 PM rs[m]: that makes more sense already
01:29 PM rs[m]: maybe OZ is a separate ground for index pins
01:29 PM Thorhian: OZ is all by itself, no OA or OB.
01:29 PM gregcnc: anyhow this probably just passes the Z pulse through
01:29 PM gregcnc: not hard to check
01:29 PM rs[m]: that's the nice thing about guessing, virtually unlimited possibilities!
01:30 PM Thorhian: What does that mean? Shouldn't Z+ and Z- do that already?
01:30 PM gregcnc: as an output to something else
01:30 PM gregcnc: is this encoder already connected to the control?
01:31 PM jdh]: it is an open collector Z output
01:32 PM rs[m]: gregcnc: 20:15:51 Thorhian | The encoder is hooked up to the drive already.
01:32 PM jdh]: probably good for mach threading
01:32 PM gregcnc: thank you. but that isn't what I asked
01:32 PM Thorhian: That would make sense. Guess I don't need it since I will be using Z+ and Z- jdh]?
01:33 PM jdh]: no idea what your control plans are.
01:33 PM Thorhian: gregcnc: Not yet, that's why I was trying to make sure I understand what these pins are before I start hooking it up to my 7i76.
01:34 PM jdh]: https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33543.0;attach=44811
01:34 PM jdh]: ^^ manual for the drive
01:34 PM rs[m]: Thorhian: make sure e-stop is working before doing anything serious, and keep that button near in case something begins spinning...
01:35 PM Thorhian: I want to do rigid tapping eventually jdh], I'm still a noob to encoder stuff hence why I am here.
01:36 PM perry_j1987: just got the mail
01:36 PM perry_j1987: they sent me 3 g320x drives instead of two lol
01:36 PM Thorhian: rs[m]: That's kind of why I am trying to hook up the spindle to the controller. I have been doing some operations with the machine very carefully while just setting the RPM directly on the servo drive with the buttons on it.
01:36 PM Thorhian: I'd like to be able to let the controller stop the spindle when everything else stops lol
01:37 PM gregcnc: that manual has everything you need
01:38 PM rs[m]: it is funny. CRC in modbus is translated to "Longitudinal Redundancy Check England"
01:38 PM Thorhian: I have the manual lol. In paper form, but I do have it. That's what I have been reading and how I found the "OZ" port in the first place.
01:39 PM rs[m]: oh forget my comment. modbus ascii.
01:39 PM jdh]: Thorhian: 2.3.1 has the OZ
01:41 PM Thorhian: I know jdh]. That is literally the section I have been looking at for the past hour in my paper manual.
01:41 PM gregcnc: if passing the ABZ output to Mesa you don't need OZ
01:42 PM jdh]: oh. beside the OZ, it says Z Open Collector Output
01:48 PM Thorhian: Okay, so since I am using the pulse signal instead of a open collector for the Z signal, I don't need to worry about it then. Is there a reason why you would want to use an open collector for the Z pulse?
01:48 PM jdh]: that's about all mach3 could use
01:49 PM Thorhian: Oh lol. I'm not using Mach3 though of course, but LinuxCNC with Mesa Cards lol.
01:50 PM Thorhian: Thanks jdh], gregcnc, rs[m].
01:51 PM gregcnc: the drive takes the encoder signals for it's own use and also outputs then so the control can use them. OZ is created in addition
01:52 PM miss0r: 'evening
02:00 PM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
02:43 PM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
03:05 PM perry_j1987: whats everyone up to today
03:14 PM Tom_L: 6'1"
03:17 PM gregcnc: a little of this some of that
03:28 PM perry_j1987: lol
03:33 PM perry_j1987: reading through datasheet and manual for these g320x drives
04:41 PM perry_j1987: haha
04:42 PM perry_j1987: i just asked the company who made this lathe i got why they put the control cabinet on the headstock side of a passthrough spindle lathe instead of on the tailstock side
04:42 PM perry_j1987: he just responded simply with "That lathe was the weird child you put in the basement when guests come over."
04:46 PM unterhaus_: the cabinet blocks the spindle?
04:47 PM gregcnc: It was made for education settings
04:47 PM unterhaus_: emco?
04:48 PM gregcnc: techno isel
04:49 PM gregcnc: http://www.techno-isel.com/Education1/Ed_MetalLathe.htm
05:40 PM JT-Cave: damn long day
05:40 PM Tom_L: i'll 2nd that
05:40 PM Tom_L: started around 4
05:41 PM JT-Cave: got some enclosures in late yesterday and started trying to fit everything in... nota had to make a 1" extension for the push button box so the PLC would fit
05:42 PM JT-Cave: the enclosure for the drive an power supply is just plain too small...
05:42 PM JT-Cave: I still want to get one lane setup Monday at the range
05:44 PM JT-Cave: 2-3 days next week I need to do some programming at Revere Plastics
05:44 PM JT-Cave: still have machine 2 at the handle factory to start...
05:52 PM Tom_L: who you gettin enclosures from?
05:57 PM JT-Cave: Automation Direct they are Hammond enclosures
06:00 PM Tom_L: i've dealt with hammond before
06:00 PM Tom_L: they sent me samples for my programmer way back
06:13 PM JT-Cave: chow time here
06:15 PM perry_j1987: im making spaghetti tonight
06:22 PM JT-Cave: tacos here
06:23 PM gregcnc: dinner was recycled today
06:24 PM JT-Cave: your a beaver?
06:25 PM JT-Cave: you're
06:25 PM gregcnc: i need to glue a broken chunk of MDF solvent based so it doesn't swell, but rather runny so it get where it needs to any ideas?
06:26 PM JT-Cave: ouch MDF is swell city when wet
06:26 PM gregcnc: right so water based is out
06:26 PM JT-Cave: epoxy?
06:26 PM JT-Cave: MDF also swells with less than ideal chicken poop
06:27 PM gregcnc: cyano flashes way to fast in MDF
06:27 PM JT-Cave: unless protected with polyurethane
06:27 PM JT-Cave: even slow cyano?
06:28 PM gregcnc: probably it wil cure at the surface, thent he parts won't fit
06:31 PM gregcnc: i'll have to test the old epoxy I have
06:32 PM JT-Cave: iirc you can thin epoxy but can't remember with wat
06:32 PM JT-Cave: what
06:34 PM gregcnc: acetone, laquer thinner, alcohols you give up strength if it matters
06:35 PM CaptHindsight: those are all non reactive solvents so what he just said ^^
06:36 PM CaptHindsight: it has to be reactive with the -mers being crosslinked
06:36 PM gregcnc: this is just a dumb paper cutter base, i should just watch craigslist. people give them away
06:36 PM gregcnc: are there solvents which don't give up strength?
06:36 PM JT-Cave: a big one?
06:37 PM JT-Cave: I have a 24" x 24" paper cutter
06:37 PM gregcnc: 18"
06:37 PM JT-Cave: good sized one
06:38 PM CaptHindsight: nope, they are all non-reactive, so you can heat your epoxy to lower its viscosity or use a lower viscosity epoxy formulation
06:38 PM JT-Cave: I use mine to cut ribbon cable mostly lol;
06:39 PM gregcnc: bigger problem is the epoxy I have is ancient so it's probably garbage
06:43 PM CaptHindsight: will contact cement work in this application?
06:43 PM CaptHindsight: the solvents evaporate
06:43 PM gregcnc: broken piece of MDF and you know how it cracks
06:54 PM jdh]: replace it with some 3/4" Mic6 plate
07:00 PM gregcnc: if I had a mill big enough i could engrave the lines
07:00 PM jdh]: buy a mill, buy some plate!
07:01 PM gregcnc: might have to, i don't even know where I put the board
07:02 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Walnut-Wood-Grain-Contact-Paper-Self-Adhesive-Shelf-Liner-for-Furniture-Table-/153768899391
07:34 PM perry_j1987: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Teknic-ClearPath-Integrated-Servo-Motor-System-CPM-MCPV-2310S-RLN-nearly-new/254823306270
07:35 PM perry_j1987: couple of cheap clearpath servos
07:35 PM perry_j1987: 15 min left on bids
07:37 PM jdh]: buy them
07:40 PM perry_j1987: no use for them myself
07:41 PM jdh]: so
07:46 PM perry_j1987: suppose i could throw them on this lathe and sell these g320x drivers heh
07:48 PM gavlee is now known as gavlee__
07:52 PM perry_j1987: they went for 325
08:21 PM XXCoder: wow! https://www.banggood.com/AC110V-or-220V-2100W-3KG-Gold-Melting-Furnace-Digital-Melting-Furnace-Machine-Heating-Capacity-Casting-Refining-Metals-Gold-Silve-p-1695284.html?utm_campaign=7585390_1695284&utm_content=10375&p=X!272175853902016119&cur_warehouse=CN&ID=514853
08:21 PM XXCoder: pretty cheap for something that can melt brass
08:22 PM XXCoder: the tong is UNSAFE, myfordboy added locking brace to it
08:22 PM XXCoder: he actually dropped it lol thankfully very little spilled out
08:22 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0GY06GBD0g
08:32 PM CaptHindsight: probably works fine for at least a few hours
08:35 PM XXCoder: maybe?
08:35 PM XXCoder: i hope to see followups from myfordboy
08:35 PM XXCoder: I want to melt metal and pours in future
08:36 PM jdh]: me too, but I want to do it with my LASERBEAM eyes
08:55 PM veegee_: XXCoder fuck it
08:55 PM veegee_: I bought the damn machine
08:56 PM veegee_: Worst case scenario, I end up paying $900 for 6,000 lbs of cast iron, 4 working motors
08:57 PM veegee_: It's 5,700 lbs actually so at the very least it's rigid and can remove a lot of metal even if it doesn't hold its tolerances that well
08:57 PM veegee_: But I guess the fine work is what my current vertical mill is for
08:57 PM veegee_ is now known as veegee
08:58 PM veegee: flyback why that channel
08:58 PM veegee: why can't you tazer me in this channel after I risked my $900 on a universal mill
09:01 PM XXCoder: veegee: lol well it seemed maybe good risk to go into
09:01 PM veegee: It needs a full rebuild but at least I have all the equipment to rebuild it except for planing the slideways
09:03 PM veegee: It's this machine: https://ozarktoolmanuals.com/machinemanual/supermax-yc-2gs-verticalhorizontal-milling-machine-operators-parts-manual/
09:04 PM veegee: Putting it into perspective, the manual costs ~10% of the price of the whole machine lol
09:04 PM veegee: So I guess it's not that bad
09:13 PM XXCoder: no downloads for that?
10:10 PM CaptHindsight: you can machine a new manual in metal
11:11 PM _unreal_: well. this weekend I'm going to try to get as much as I can done on my new laser etcher
11:13 PM mrec: _unreal_: which program do you use for creating g-code?
11:17 PM _unreal_: multi
11:17 PM _unreal_: depends on what I'm doing
11:17 PM _unreal_: so what are you trying to do
11:17 PM _unreal_: I'm sure you've seen it but just a referesher https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPp1f0dUHlqqTwZCQ32JntR_n59omq5yjLi0sI1AFxK8ghJ-Fgv4MRm1h6_kwMyBw?key=b196bk50Mk9GMFd4ZFBSY0RkclVCVW9QYm0tbWFB
11:17 PM _unreal_: to give an idea of the kind of work I do
11:19 PM _unreal_: ?
11:43 PM gigasu_shida is now known as gigas_cedar