#linuxcnc Logs

Dec 20 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:53 AM Deejay: moin
02:09 AM unreal is now known as Guest33086
05:38 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:38 AM XXCoder: yo
06:05 AM JT-Cave: hmm looks like my planer pulley has departed St Louis after sitting there for 9 days
06:17 AM gloops: https://www.ft.com/content/538a640b-2b2e-4039-9b11-9749be3fa579?sharetype=blocked
06:17 AM gloops: Coronavirus: Scientists alarmed at infectiousness of viral variant
06:23 AM Tom_L: morning
06:23 AM JT-Cave: yo
06:25 AM gloops: Trump should ban travel from USA
06:25 AM gloops: you dont want this lol
06:25 AM Tom_L: biden will fix everything
06:28 AM JT-Cave: will he fix my drain field?
06:34 AM Tom_L: sure he will, he cares about you
06:37 AM Tom_L: gloops, Subscribe to the FT to read
06:37 AM JT-Cave: tomorrow is the winter solstice
06:37 AM gloops: ahh, dont know why i can get it
06:37 AM gloops: theyre taking it seriously here, its overtaking the old covid in week
06:39 AM gloops: yeah gonna be heavy rain here though JT-Cave we sometimes go up to an ancient stone circle that was used for the solstice, wont bother in rain
06:39 AM Tom_L: 7 quakes since yesterday: https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/map/?extent=37.6682,-97.27964&extent=37.75457,-97.16154&listOnlyShown=true
06:41 AM Tom_L: 38F hi 55
06:41 AM gloops: quakes, pandemics, floods, you name, signs of the end days
06:43 AM gloops: *waiting for the asteroid
07:15 AM miss0r: I think we need the flogs and bugs first
07:15 AM miss0r: frogs*
07:15 AM miss0r: and don't forget the raining blood... :P
07:31 AM JT-Cave: today's task talk the grandkids into running the splitter :)
08:14 AM Tom_L: heh
08:18 AM JT-Cave: I wonder if I can just add to sources.list the linuxcnc deb?
08:39 AM JT-Cave: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/dists/buster/scratch-rtpreempt/
08:40 AM JT-Cave: looks like armhf is there but how to add that?
08:42 AM JT-Cave: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/dists/buster/2.8-rtpreempt/
08:42 AM JT-Cave: actually it's there but I get an error adding it
10:27 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, you can edit sources.list as root
10:27 AM Tom_L: is arm a deb?
10:28 AM Tom_L: or zip
10:28 AM Tom_L: hmm should work (TM)
10:35 AM Tom_L: hmm, deb isn't i this list: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
10:35 AM Tom_L: but it's there
10:38 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, if you didn't get it already you may have to point to a subdir further in
10:39 AM Tom_L: or install the deb locally
10:39 AM Tom_L: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/dists/buster/2.8-rtpreempt/binary-armhf/
10:41 AM Tom_L: probably easiest to dl and install local
10:43 AM Tom_L: i reached a dead end updating wheezy to 2.8 as well
10:43 AM Tom_L: can't build without a newer RTAI kernel, can't update the rt for the same reason
10:44 AM Tom_L: rip probably no problem
10:55 AM Tom_L: and i forgot the default arm login...
10:57 AM JT-Shop: login for the rpi?
10:57 AM Tom_L: yes
10:57 AM Tom_L: for lcnc default
10:57 AM JT-Shop: raspberry
10:57 AM Tom_L: no
10:57 AM JT-Shop: oh no clue
10:57 AM Tom_L: the dist
10:57 AM Tom_L: jepler set it iirc
10:58 AM JT-Shop: might be chips
10:58 AM Tom_L: and i forgot what it was
10:58 AM Tom_L: nope
10:58 AM JT-Shop: hmm I'm out of guesses lol
10:58 AM Tom_L: sam will remember hopefully
10:58 AM Tom_L: for now i plugged in the other sd card
10:58 AM Tom_L: was gonna try that deb update
10:59 AM JT-Shop: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/39883-raspberry-pi-buildbot-iso
10:59 AM JT-Shop: tux maybe if you have an older iso
11:00 AM Tom_L: i think i have the new 2.8 on it but not 2.8.1
11:00 AM JT-Shop: roguish[m], might know
11:01 AM Tom_L: mmm this card has the 2.8.0 pre
11:01 AM Tom_L: not the one i want
11:01 AM Tom_L: tux
11:03 AM Tom_L: unless andy changed it again
11:16 AM Tom_L: errors were encountered while processing
11:16 AM Tom_L: dependency problems
11:17 AM Tom_L: that was with 2.8.0 installed
11:46 AM Tom_Rpi: ok i took my working config from 2.7 and did the 2.8 update to it, now it's broke
11:47 AM JT-Shop: opps
11:47 AM Tom_Rpi: issuing EMC_TRAJ_SET_ROTATION..(+226,+24 +0,0.0) ..... shutting down and cleaning up...
11:48 AM Tom_Rpi: things have been wonky since they added joints
11:49 AM Tom_Rpi: changed things back for now
11:50 AM Tom_L: that was the 2.8.0 pre copy
11:50 AM Tom_L: but it worked on the mill
11:51 AM Tom_L: i copied over my 2.7 configs from the mill wheezy and did the 2.8 update to them and they're broke
11:51 AM Tom_L: i'll look them over later
11:52 AM Tom_L: i changed the spindle config on the 2.7 version and was gonna update it to the rpi one
11:53 AM Tom_L: 2.7 didn't have joints
11:53 AM roycroft: so i was wrong about my neighbor and his painting yesterday
11:53 AM roycroft: his driveway is not white
11:53 AM roycroft: but his wall is also not white - it is pretty much bare wod
11:53 AM Tom_L: you should apologize to him
11:55 AM Tom_L: that 2.7 to 2.8 conversion to joints doesn't work without edits
12:13 PM enleth: I just found *the* way to mark the box with imperial taps and dies in a metric shop so that no one grabs them by accident looking for metric tools
12:13 PM Tom_L: how would that be?
12:13 PM roycroft: with poison ink?
12:14 PM Tom_L: nail the lid shut?
12:14 PM enleth: I'm going to need one of those musical greeting cards, one that plays the US national anthem, and transplant the guts into the lid of the box
12:15 PM Tom_L: a decent machinist can look at them and see the pitch difference
12:15 PM Tom_L: for a given size
12:15 PM roycroft: or read the label on the box?
12:15 PM Tom_L: just paint an american flag on the box lid
12:15 PM roycroft: or the markings on the tap/die?
12:16 PM Tom_L: some of those are rather hard to read
12:16 PM roycroft: or the liberian flag
12:16 PM roycroft: or the burmese flag
12:17 PM roycroft: we're not the only archaic country in the world
12:18 PM Guest33086 is now known as _unreal_
12:18 PM _unreal_: god I dont want to but I may wipe out my main laptop and reload it :S
12:18 PM _unreal_: got an old version of fedora on it
12:20 PM roycroft: i have to say, that from a functionality point of view, i.e. apps work properly, websites load properly, etc. my new debian laptop is better than my macs
12:20 PM roycroft: but from a user interface point of view, macos still runs circles around any linux system i've ever used
12:29 PM _unreal_: roycroft, in what way?
12:31 PM roycroft: switching screens, cut and pasting between xterms and other apps, consistent look and feel of apps, etc.
12:32 PM roycroft: i'm slowly getting the debian laptop working more to my liking, but it doesn't feel at all like a well-integrated set up
12:32 PM roycroft: one of the big complaints about mac os is one of its greatest strengths - an imposed user interface
12:32 PM roycroft: apps are not free to do whatever they want
12:33 PM roycroft: i'll continue to work on this laptop, and i'm documenting all the changes i make
12:33 PM roycroft: hopefully it will be a nice, smooth running machine eventually
12:33 PM JavaBean: i have good/great luck with debian on my systems. but i am using kde, maybe it isn't debian but you desktop environment
12:34 PM roycroft: well there's the rub - there are many desktop environments, and apps behave differently depending on the desktop
12:34 PM roycroft: some apps are optimised for gnome, some for kde, etc.
12:34 PM roycroft: there's no consistency among all apps
12:35 PM roycroft: and please understand i'm not really being negative about using linux for a workstation
12:35 PM * JavaBean shrugs, points out that he can't have tried all the apps
12:35 PM roycroft: it just has a lot of challenges
12:36 PM roycroft: and the lack of a consistent user interface means a lot of tweaking
12:36 PM JavaBean: i find kde to be pretty consistant. but again, i can't have tried all the apps
12:36 PM roycroft: i'm trying to make the machine work for me - i'd like to be able to use linux on my primary workstations evengually
12:36 PM roycroft: eventually
12:37 PM JavaBean: i have been using linux basically exclusively for years. mostly debian, i prefer KDE
12:38 PM roycroft: i'm going to continue to work on mine, and hopefully i'll get where i want to be with it
12:38 PM roycroft: although i had to make a huge compromise the other day that bothers me
12:38 PM JavaBean: congrats, here's to hoping it all works out well for you soon
12:38 PM JavaBean: what comprimise?
12:38 PM roycroft: i had to give up on qemu, and installed virtualbox
12:39 PM roycroft: which i very much wanted to avoid
12:39 PM roycroft: but i needed to run a windows app
12:39 PM roycroft: i did not need to spend half my life trying to get qemu to play nice with my wireless network interface
12:39 PM JavaBean: qemu is very deffinetly fiddly.... did you try to run it via wine?
12:39 PM roycroft: no
12:39 PM roycroft: that's insane ;)
12:40 PM roycroft: the app i need to run is autocad
12:40 PM roycroft: i spent hours trying to get windows to run decently with qemu
12:40 PM JavaBean: just a warning, wine is like firefox/chrome in that you want to run the latest of the latest and......... wait, autocad? yeah, that's not going to work well
12:40 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Powdered-Graphite/s?k=Powdered+Graphite
12:40 PM Tom_L: homedepot even has it
12:40 PM roycroft: and keep in mind that i have 10 servers running proxmox pve, and about 100 qemu vms, at the isp
12:41 PM roycroft: so it's not like i'm not familiar with linux virtualisation
12:41 PM roycroft: but it just wan't going to play nice on a workstation
12:41 PM JavaBean: something stupid. did you remember to "turn on" the "virutalisation" options in the bios/grub?
12:41 PM roycroft: when i broke down and installed virtualbox, i had a fully functional windows vm in minutes
12:41 PM Tom_L: wrong window :)
12:42 PM JavaBean: oh, its working with virtualbox? then that can't be it
12:42 PM roycroft: javabean: the qemu docs clearly state that bridged networking on a wireless interface will not work
12:42 PM roycroft: and that is a feature that was critical for me to have
12:43 PM JavaBean: sorry, wifi is something i just skimmed past
12:43 PM roycroft: folks say they've done work-arounds, and i tried a bunch of them, to no avail
12:43 PM roycroft: well this is on a laptop
12:43 PM roycroft: i'm not willing to tether it
12:43 PM roycroft: as i said, i'm quite familiar with qemu on linux
12:43 PM roycroft: but in a headless server environment
12:43 PM roycroft: not on workstations
12:43 PM JavaBean: and i don't do virtualization on laptop...
12:43 PM roycroft: there were also video driver issues with qemu
12:44 PM roycroft: but with virtualbox it worked right away
12:44 PM roycroft: when i have more time to mess with it i'm going to try qemu again
12:45 PM roycroft: my conclusion, based on my experiences so far, is that for the average user, the day of the linux desktop is not yet here
12:45 PM roycroft: someone who is determined can build a good linux desktop
12:45 PM roycroft: but someone who just wants to buy a machine and start working will be disappointed
12:46 PM JavaBean: and i find the defaults under a kde desktop to be just fine
12:51 PM roycroft: perhaps your workflow differs to mine
12:51 PM JavaBean: not unlikely
12:52 PM roycroft: and i'm not being judgemental about workflows when i say that
12:52 PM roycroft: different is not better or worse, necessarily
12:52 PM roycroft: it's just different :)
12:52 PM roycroft: i have ~20 years of experience with mac os x as my primary user interface
12:53 PM roycroft: it's reasonable that i'd want to replicate that interface as best i can
12:53 PM roycroft: and with a mac, that consists of: 1. buy a mac. 2. turn it on. 3. start working
12:54 PM roycroft: with linux it's weeks of tweaking and configuring, but hoepfully i'll get where i need to be with it in the end
12:56 PM JavaBean: you do you, but for me its mostly just 1. build pc 2. install debian/kde 3. install KVirc+GenericSoftwareX(for whatever the system will be used for) 4. go. takes less than a day, usually. depends on download speeds
01:48 PM _unreal_: roycroft, no argument EACH to there own
01:49 PM _unreal_: I certainly agree mac has some aspects that do make it wonderful.
01:49 PM _unreal_: ESPECIALLY SINCE they ditched that pos OS they use to use
01:49 PM t4nk_freenode: ES PES SHALLIE
01:49 PM _unreal_: OS9 and before
02:27 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20201220_141259.jpg
02:27 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20201220_142404.jpg
02:30 PM Tom_L: did you take the spindle motor to the shop for fit testing?
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: those are just extenders, useful for when the doctor says to stay away from work
02:35 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: no. Just made it match the original tooling
02:35 PM skunkworks: need to get a couple more - and make some nuts.
02:38 PM Tom_L: do you use stub length drills on your stuff? i'm looking at getting a set so the long ones will work with the vise in place
02:38 PM Tom_L: had to interpolate a 3/8 hole due to the drill being too long
02:46 PM skunkworks: I don't know if we have any..
02:48 PM Tom_L: if you do any drilling with that little one you may need some :)
03:01 PM skunkworks: heh
03:04 PM Tom_L: motion.spindle-speed-in doesn not translate in 2.8 to motion.spindle.0.speed-in as it should
03:05 PM Tom_L: the config conversion utility
03:08 PM Tom_L: and motion.spindle.0.speed-in -> pin does not exhist
03:10 PM Tom_L: but spindle.0.speed-in does
03:10 PM Tom_L: it should be motion.spindle.x.speed-in since it is a part of the motion comp
03:10 PM Tom_L: no?
03:10 PM Tom_L: inconsistent with other comps anyway
03:18 PM Tom_L: ok i think the config is up to par with 2.8
03:57 PM gregcnc: skunkworks my Arboga mill drill has the same setup in MT3
03:58 PM skunkworks: sherline also I think
03:58 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, did you have issues on rpi4 with the new 2.8.0 release?
03:58 PM Tom_L: network...
03:59 PM gregcnc: I adapted a face mill shank, but still need to make some extra clamp rings
04:00 PM Tom_L: i switch to that image and eth0 is down even after i configure it
04:00 PM roycroft: my neighbor is out in the pouring rain painting again, with a fan blowing on the wall this time
04:01 PM Tom_L: smart guy
04:01 PM roycroft: he could at least of put up an ez-up to keep some of the rain from hitting the wall
04:01 PM roycroft: although with 40km/h winds it would be hard to anchor the ez-up on a driveway
04:01 PM Tom_L: keeps the brush from drying out
04:02 PM roycroft: s/of/have/
04:02 PM roycroft: anyway, we'll see if any of the second round of paint is still there tomorrow
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: we would have to have a different economy in this country if guys like that didn't exist
04:02 PM roycroft: a more sustainable, less wasteful one?
04:03 PM CaptHindsight: of course
04:03 PM * roycroft wonders what he has in stock for sjoow cable
04:04 PM roycroft: my mag switch arrived today and i want to test it and the new motor
04:04 PM roycroft: hopefully i won't have to go buy anything - i don't want to go outside again
04:04 PM roycroft: i got totally soaked just running out to the mailbox
04:08 PM jymmmm: roycroft: they have this magic thing called plastic now
04:37 PM JT-Cave: with any luck I'll have the planer running before the end of the year
04:56 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, i lost the page that shows how to change the rpi4 usernames....
04:57 PM Tom_L: starting with a fresh image then the 2.8.1 deb file
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: I wonder how much work to get LCNC to work with kernel bypass mode?
05:27 PM Tom_L: dunno what that is
05:27 PM CaptHindsight: https://blog.cloudflare.com/kernel-bypass/
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: uses RDMA (Remote Direct Memory Access)
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: all user space
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: move everything into user space, no RTAI
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_direct_memory_access
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: <1.5uS max latency
06:33 PM roycroft: folks, i've tested my motor and magnetic switch - they're fine, but i do have one problem
06:33 PM roycroft: the motor has a thermal protection switch, which has three wires
06:33 PM roycroft: only one of them is labeled
06:34 PM roycroft: and the wiring diagram with thermal overload switch only shows the one, labeled wire in the diagram
06:34 PM roycroft: i've identified all the other wires
06:34 PM roycroft: i tested it without the thermal overload switch in the circuit, and may just leave it that way
06:34 PM roycroft: the magnetic switch also has a thermal protection module
06:35 PM roycroft: is that likely enough protection to keep the motor from smoking?
06:36 PM roycroft: this is likely never going to be an issue - the motor/switch are for a wood cutting bandsaw, and it's not likely that anything would cause the motor to overheat without the operator knowing well before the overheating happens
06:36 PM roycroft: especially since i'm likely to be the only operator
06:40 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/rpi4_lcnc_2.8.1.png
06:40 PM Tom_L: about flippin time...
06:41 PM roycroft: congrats
06:41 PM roycroft: it seems like you've been working on that for a year
06:41 PM Tom_L: no, i test alot
06:42 PM roycroft: but everything everyone has done in 2020 seems like it has taken a year
06:42 PM Tom_L: various configs
06:42 PM roycroft: this year has been the longest year ever
06:42 PM Tom_L: there were only 3 months in this year
06:42 PM roycroft: yet each of those months lasted 47 years
06:43 PM roycroft: there's less than two weeks left in the year, and it's probably going to take a century to get through those two weeks
06:44 PM gregcnc: is this the twilight zone?
06:50 PM sinned6915: no, it's Iowa
06:53 PM gregcnc: Tom_L are you running the mill with rpi?
06:55 PM pfred1: this year went fast for me
06:57 PM Tom_L: gregcnc, i just got the config working
06:57 PM Tom_L: i may test it one of these days
06:57 PM Tom_L: i had it on the mill with a 2.7 config once
06:58 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0OLIth_cOI
07:19 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by hitchcock.freenode.net
07:20 PM roycroft: well the internet thinks that the overcurrent protector in my magnetic switch is sufficient and that i can safely continue to bypass the thermal overload switch on the motor itself, which was my hypothesis
07:28 PM jdh: Guess that settles it then.
08:18 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:36 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, i installed the deb locally
09:15 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, ok i got the debs to work
09:15 PM pfred1: what did you install
09:16 PM pfred1: I was going to install a program today but it turned out I already had it
09:16 PM Tom_L: sources.list add: deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org buster 2.8-rtpreempt
09:17 PM Tom_L: and it found the armf deb
09:17 PM Tom_L: armhf
09:17 PM pfred1: a kernel?
09:18 PM Tom_L: no
09:19 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, the key was i had to unplug the mesa ethernet card for the wifi to pick it up
09:19 PM Tom_L: dunno why, the brouser worked
09:21 PM Tom_L: that deb worked on the pc too
09:24 PM unreal is now known as Guest77366
09:42 PM Tom_L: what distance is spi reliable?
09:42 PM Tom_L: cable length...
09:42 PM Tom_L: and or type of cable
09:43 PM Tom_L: wow, google says 10 meters
09:44 PM Tom_L: i thought it was a few inches
09:45 PM jdh]: and it's a 40 year old protocol
09:45 PM Tom_L: i see no reason to use it when there's ethernet
09:48 PM Eric__: ethernet is more expensive, but much nicer
09:49 PM Eric__: isolation is nice all by itself
09:55 PM enleth: the FPGA on ethernet Mesa cards is "running" constantly when it gets power, even when no computer host is connected, right?
09:57 PM enleth: I just realized one super cool feature - and a reason to switch to an ethernet board on my mill - would be to implement a simple standalone DRO that works even when the PC is off
09:57 PM enleth: of course that would only work for a servo-driven machine that has encoders hooked up to the mesa card anyway, but mine has
09:57 PM Eric__: fpgas don't have to loop like a processor does
09:58 PM enleth: that's why it's "running", not running
09:58 PM enleth: I'm aware of that
09:58 PM enleth: can't think of a better word to convey the idea, though
09:58 PM enleth: "active"?
09:58 PM Eric__: I think you need a pc for most things
09:59 PM Eric__: just because hostmot is general purpose, but the code is there for you to change
10:00 PM Eric__: I was thinking about setting up electronic gearing on my lathe because metric gears is an extensive project
10:00 PM enleth: but it should be possible to simply keep reading the encoders and push updates over RS485
10:00 PM Eric__: but I think hanging a rpi off a ethernet mesa card is worth the extra $
10:00 PM Eric__: push updates to where?
10:01 PM enleth: to a custom DRO-like display implemented on a microcontroller
10:01 PM Eric__: like an rpi?
10:01 PM enleth: all it needs to do is display changes and have a local "zero" button for each axis
10:02 PM Eric__: realistically for me that would have no chance in hell of ever happening without a rpi
10:02 PM enleth: the reason I'm even thinking of this is because I find it annoying having to wait for linux to boot up when all I need is a DRO - my mill has mechanical handwheels, it's perfectly usable as a manual machine, but I have to work to scribe lines when using it that way
10:03 PM Eric__: how long does an rpi take to boot? That might be a concern for me as well
10:03 PM enleth: POST is faster than a PC, but linux itself might be slower to boot
10:03 PM enleth: best case, the same
10:03 PM enleth: it's the same OS, it needs to do the same things on startup
10:04 PM enleth: kick off all the services, start GUI, load the DE
10:04 PM enleth: even just Axis starting takes a noticeable amount of time
10:04 PM enleth: a dumb DRO is up and running in a split second
10:05 PM enleth: the mill is right next to a lathe with a dumb DRO, so the difference in boot time is all the more annoying when all I need is a mill, not a CNC mill specifically
10:05 PM Eric__: you don't need all the services. a quick google shows that a lot of people have done work on quick boot
10:05 PM enleth: it's still going to take a lot more time
10:06 PM Eric__: people are saying less than 3 seconds
10:06 PM enleth: I tried suspending the linuxcnc PC, but this doesn't work well at all
10:06 PM Eric__: yeah, don't imagine that would work
10:06 PM enleth: linuxcnc itself gets terribly confused and can't reinitialize the mesa card
10:07 PM Eric__: you have a dro setup?
10:07 PM Eric__: that doesn't run lcnc itself?
10:07 PM enleth: I have a DRO on the lathe, it's a completely manual machine
10:07 PM enleth: the mill is CNC
10:07 PM enleth: but it's got servos and encoders, so I'm using linuxcnc as a DRO
10:08 PM enleth: servos, encoders and handwheels, that is
10:08 PM Eric__: okay, I was hopeful you had a halrun setup
10:08 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure the mesa ethernet cards work quite like you think they do
10:08 PM Tom_L: pretty sure they need a pc host connected
10:08 PM enleth: Tom_L: don't they have built-in bitfile storage?
10:09 PM Eric__: you could write a firmware to do this, I'm pretty sure of that
10:09 PM Tom_L: they have bitfiles for functions they do not storage
10:09 PM Tom_L: yeah you could modify it if you wanted to
10:09 PM Tom_L: the source is there
10:09 PM Eric__: otoh, the switch from cnc to dro is a different matter
10:09 PM enleth: sure I don't expect the stock bitfiles provided by Mesa to be able to do what I want
10:10 PM enleth: Eric__: it doesn't really have to "switch", I think
10:10 PM Eric__: depending on the card, I suppose you could add functionality
10:10 PM enleth: one thing FPGAs are good at, other than don't having to loop, is doing stuff in parallel without getting in the way
10:11 PM Tom_L: yup
10:11 PM Tom_L: ethernet takes up quite a bit of the fpga
10:11 PM enleth: I imagine passively reading the registers used by linuxcnc to get encoder position changes, and sending that off over RS485 periodically, would be possible without interfering with the original function of the firmware
10:12 PM Tom_L: sserial could do that
10:12 PM enleth: the other reason I'm thinking of this is just that I finally want a good excuse to set up the build environment for mesa firmware
10:12 PM enleth: and this is a good excuse
10:13 PM enleth: the result would actually be useful
10:14 PM Eric__: sounds like a fun project
10:14 PM Tom_L: enleth, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx14_install_index.php
10:15 PM enleth: Tom_L: thanks
10:15 PM Tom_L: that's also on the wiki
10:15 PM Tom_L: last release is 14.7 iirc and it's in their archives now
10:16 PM enleth: is there a documented process for vivado?
10:17 PM Tom_L: i didn't do one
10:17 PM Tom_L: i think it's for newer chips but may support spartan6 i dunno
10:18 PM enleth: ah, right, 6 is not supported there
10:20 PM enleth: it would be so cool if Spartans were supported by yosys and friends
10:20 PM enleth: I mean, yosys itself does
10:20 PM enleth: but it still needs ISE in the background to produce final bitfiles
10:21 PM Tom_L: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Editing_MESA_Bitfiles
10:21 PM Tom_L: wiki link to it
10:21 PM Tom_L: it's a bit dated but still works
10:21 PM enleth: ISE itself is, uh, a bit dated
10:21 PM enleth: so the description is by definition going to be up to date anyway
10:22 PM enleth: thanks for the links
10:22 PM Tom_L: pcw has added functions to it i'm pretty sure
10:22 PM Tom_L: not sure the in's and out's of them all
10:23 PM Tom_L: and if you're on a 64bit pc, settings32.sh would be wrong, use the 64bit one
10:25 PM enleth: I'll need to put it in a VM anyway, there's no chance in hell it'll run on nixos
10:26 PM Tom_L: i've got it on win 7 and linux both
10:26 PM Tom_L: but likely not on that
10:26 PM enleth: *nixos*, not just any linux
10:26 PM enleth: it's possible to get some binary-only software to run on nixos if you violate the everliving crap out of it with patchelf and so on
10:27 PM enleth: but not anything of that size and complexity
10:27 PM Tom_L: it's a large download
10:28 PM Tom_L: 6g iirc
10:29 PM roycroft: do any of you folks use jst eh/xh style connectors?
10:30 PM Tom_L: remind me what they look like
10:30 PM Tom_L: i've used 'pc' style plugs
10:30 PM roycroft: the tiny connectors used, for example, to plug cooling fans into system boards
10:30 PM Tom_L: like the fan has
10:30 PM Tom_L: yes i have
10:30 PM roycroft: my question is about crimping them
10:30 PM Tom_L: heh, i got a cheap $5 radio shack crimper
10:30 PM roycroft: i see crimp tools for sale that claim to work with the jst pins as well as d-sub connector pins
10:30 PM Tom_L: years ago
10:31 PM Eric__: I think I have a crimper for some jst connectors
10:31 PM roycroft: and i see crimp tools that are specific to the jst pins
10:31 PM roycroft: i have a crimp tool for d-sub pins already
10:31 PM Eric__: might work
10:31 PM roycroft: i'm trying to sort out whether it will likely work with the jst pins or not
10:31 PM roycroft: i suppose i could get the connectors and try my crimp too lout
10:31 PM roycroft: and if it doesn't work i'll buy one
10:31 PM enleth: roycroft: is't the difference mostly that one is stepped and crimps both on the wire and insulation at the same time, and the other is narrower and you have to use it twice?
10:32 PM roycroft: that adds a couple weeks to the project though
10:32 PM enleth: geometry should be the same
10:32 PM * roycroft has too much money invested in crimp tools, and is not looking forward to purchasing yet another one
10:32 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LQI6YU?tag=ytk00399-20
10:32 PM Tom_L: i use one like that
10:33 PM Eric__: turns out cataracts pretty much preclude crimping even a db25 connector succesfully
10:33 PM enleth: as long as it has this buttocks-shaped recess that curls the wings on the connector around and inwards, it'll work
10:33 PM Eric__: the cheap ones do work, had to do that for robots
10:34 PM roycroft: mine is a ratching crimper
10:34 PM roycroft: i've crimped thousands of d-sub pins with it
10:34 PM Eric__: sometimes ratcheting isn't better
10:34 PM roycroft: if the dies are the perfect size the ratcheting ones are better
10:34 PM Eric__: it is if it's exactly the right crimper
10:34 PM Tom_L: hardly need ratcheting for those
10:34 PM roycroft: but if the fit is not perfect, a sensitive crimper may be better
10:35 PM enleth: ratcheting sucks when you realize you've used a smaller die than you were supposed to and the ratchet is hard to disengage
10:35 PM roycroft: i've never dealt with crimping these connectors before
10:36 PM roycroft: in the past i've always spliced pre-made pigtails on cables where i need them
10:36 PM roycroft: but i'm tired of doing that
10:37 PM Tom_L: https://iotexpert.com/jst-connector-crimping-insanity/
10:37 PM Tom_L: he has several models there
10:37 PM enleth: oh, that looks like an excellent article
10:39 PM Tom_L: jst = japan solderless terminal
10:39 PM enleth: the note about the narrow crimper being slower to use (having to crimp twice) but more reliable is spot on
10:43 PM roycroft: note that i did not ask about jst connectors
10:43 PM roycroft: i asked about jst eh-style connectors
10:44 PM Eric__: machinekit mailing list trying to sort out if the project is dead or not
10:44 PM Eric__: it's dead jim
10:44 PM Eric__: sadly predictable
10:45 PM Eric__: good ideas, I guess
10:45 PM Tom_L: roycroft, i have some larger ones too but forget the series
10:47 PM Tom_L: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/molex/0022013047/26435?s=N4IgTCBcDaIO4FswAZlgLQDsAmIC6AvkA
10:47 PM Tom_L: like those
10:47 PM roycroft: the ones i need to deal with are all 2.5mm pitch, and either 2 or 3 pins
10:48 PM Tom_L: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/molex/0022053031/26691?s=N4IgTCBcDaIO4FsAsBmADARgLQDsAmIAugL5A
10:48 PM Tom_L: that's the other half
10:48 PM Tom_L: they lock together
10:49 PM Tom_L: i think early ibm floppies used those inside
10:49 PM roycroft: i have a whole set of molex connectors - the common ones with the big round pins and chamfered corners
10:49 PM roycroft: like old pc disk drive power connectors
10:50 PM roycroft: i spent a lot of money on that kit, including the molex crimp tool
10:50 PM Tom_L: yeah ^^ those are smaller
10:50 PM roycroft: yeah
10:50 PM roycroft: but they're not interchangeable with the jst style
10:50 PM Tom_L: nope
10:50 PM roycroft: the molex ones are 2.54mm pitch, and the jst style are 2.5mm pitch
10:51 PM roycroft: the jst series that i'm talking about, that is
10:51 PM roycroft: jst make 1.0, 2.0, and 2.5mm pitch connectors
10:51 PM roycroft: and perhaps some larger pitch
10:51 PM Eric__: what is the name of the French schematic program I'm forgetting?
10:51 PM roycroft: qelectrotech?
10:52 PM Tom_L: pads? i dunno who made pads
10:52 PM Tom_L: eagle?
10:52 PM Tom_L: dunno who made that either
10:52 PM Eric__: freeware
10:52 PM roycroft: what i need to do now is make some cables for my 3d printer and peripherals for it
10:52 PM Eric__: more for wiring dieagrams
10:52 PM Tom_L: hmm
10:52 PM roycroft: and they use the jst eh style connectors
10:52 PM Eric__: roycroft knows, but he has me on ignore
10:52 PM roycroft: yes, qelectrotech is the answer
10:53 PM roycroft: i already told you that
10:53 PM roycroft: and i do not have anyone here on ignore
10:53 PM Eric__: okay, thanks
10:54 PM Eric__: that's it. Have to redo my schematic because I managed to fry all my servo amps somehow
10:55 PM Tom_L: well, i'm off
10:56 PM Eric__: I'm trying to remember I'm a Francopile already
10:59 PM roycroft: well, i should be in good shape
11:00 PM roycroft: i just pulled out my d-sub kit, and the ratching crimper is in it - it has 2 step dies, so it will crimp both the bare wire and insulated wings simultaneously, and there was als a sensitive crimper in the kit
11:00 PM roycroft: so if the ratcheting one does not work well for the jst eh-style pins, the sensitive one probably will
11:00 PM roycroft: i had forgotten that i had that one
11:00 PM roycroft: i don't think i've crimped any d-sub pins in a few years
11:01 PM Eric__: I tried the other night, I don't think it went well
11:01 PM Eric__: but the problem with the cable was at the other end anyway
11:01 PM Eric__: turns out I can solder without being able to see that well, but the crimping is a pita
11:02 PM Eric__: now I have to solder a high-density 44 pin d-sub connector
11:02 PM Eric__: should be fun
11:03 PM Eric__: I think I'm going to use a microscope
11:07 PM roycroft: so are bangood.com fairly reliable?
11:21 PM roycroft: i have an optivisor that i use for detailed work like that
11:23 PM Eric__: yeah, thought about something like an optivisor
11:24 PM roycroft: if you get one, get the led light attachment for it
11:26 PM pfred1: I've ordered like electronics kits off banggood
11:26 PM roycroft: i've found what i need on amazon now
11:27 PM pfred1: yeah it is the same stuff
11:27 PM roycroft: but i was looking at bangood, because that's the first place i found the stuff
11:27 PM roycroft: i've heard of bangood, but never ordered from them
11:27 PM roycroft: nor aliexpress
11:27 PM pfred1: the name is a bit off putting
11:27 PM roycroft: i prefer domestic shippers, even if it's for imported stuff
11:28 PM pfred1: ali is decent
11:28 PM pfred1: if you have a problem they try to make it right
11:28 PM roycroft: i was working with some vendors on alibaba a few years ago
11:28 PM roycroft: i needed some parts in quantity for a small manufacturing run
11:29 PM roycroft: i contacted a half dozen vendors through alibaba
11:29 PM roycroft: and once i gave them the specs, the spam was unbelievable
11:29 PM roycroft: sometimes dozens of emails per day from some of the vendors
11:29 PM roycroft: i ended up nuking that email address
11:29 PM roycroft: which is unfortunate, because it's one that i used for other vendors
11:30 PM pfred1: ali sends me a piece of spam every day
11:30 PM roycroft: that was back before every vendor got a unique email address for me
11:30 PM pfred1: but just one
11:30 PM roycroft: anyway, i got spammed by every one of the vendors, incessatnly
11:30 PM roycroft: that really put me off on using alibaba, and aliexpress is part of the same outfit - it's the retail side of alibaba
11:30 PM pfred1: that's why email clients have filters
11:31 PM roycroft: so they put me off as well by association
11:31 PM roycroft: i shouldn't have to do that
11:31 PM roycroft: vendors should behave properly
11:31 PM roycroft: if they don't then i don't want to have anything to do with them
11:31 PM pfred1: I get spam from everyone I do business with online that's the way of the world today
11:31 PM roycroft: i'm not a big fan of amazon, but they usually have what i need for a good price and they don't send me spam
11:32 PM pfred1: Amazon sends me regular spam too
11:32 PM roycroft: i rarely get any spam from them
11:32 PM roycroft: very rarely
11:32 PM pfred1: really?
11:32 PM roycroft: yeah
11:32 PM roycroft: maybe it's because i have a business account with them
11:32 PM pfred1: and the customer question emails which is disguised spam
11:33 PM roycroft: i get those occasionally on my amazon personal account
11:33 PM roycroft: but never on the business account
11:33 PM Eric__: I get 4 amazon emails a day
11:33 PM roycroft: i don't use the personal account much these days, because i get better pricing on the business account
11:33 PM Eric__: couple of extras once a week
11:33 PM pfred1: spam seems to be all on the same schedule for me like they all use the same software
11:33 PM roycroft: i don't get anything like that
11:34 PM roycroft: there's probably a setting on your account where you can cut back on that
11:34 PM Eric__: it doesn't bother me too much
11:34 PM pfred1: yeah doesn't bother me
11:34 PM Eric__: I get more amusement about how bad their recommendation system is
11:34 PM roycroft: i hate spam
11:34 PM roycroft: with a passion
11:34 PM pfred1: long as it isn't about hair growth of enlargement
11:35 PM roycroft: i still file abuse reports and get accounts terminated on a regular basis
11:35 PM pfred1: I remember that stuff years ago that was all a bit much
11:35 PM Eric__: there are certain types of spam that I hate. Forum spammers and phone spammers can diaf
11:36 PM roycroft: the internet has been around for almost 30 years now and people still have not learned how to use it properly
11:36 PM Eric__: I always liked banning Hindi speaking spammers though, can practice my curse words
11:36 PM roycroft: there's so much potential for the internet
11:36 PM roycroft: but it's mostly spam, facebook, and twitter
11:36 PM Eric__: you forgot porn
11:36 PM roycroft: oh yeah
11:37 PM Eric__: ever since 1994
11:37 PM roycroft: i started my isp in 1992
11:37 PM roycroft: it was one of the first in the nation
11:37 PM Eric__: I didn't know you could do that
11:37 PM roycroft: by 1994 i had already sold it
11:37 PM pfred1: I was a late adopter i didn't get online until 1995
11:38 PM Eric__: 94 was commercialization, right?
11:38 PM roycroft: no, '92
11:38 PM Eric__: okay, bad memory
11:38 PM roycroft: i had a uucp connection before that
11:39 PM Eric__: we got a research project about using the internet for something positive, so naïve
11:39 PM Eric__: in 94
11:40 PM pfred1: there's a lot of good stuff on the net
11:40 PM Eric__: search engines are getting worse though
11:40 PM roycroft: there was a software package called ka9q at the time
11:40 PM roycroft: it was written by a ham radio operator with the call sign ka9q, of course
11:40 PM roycroft: it was used for packet radio relays
11:40 PM Eric__: maybe there is an opportunity for a search engine that actually works without spamming you
11:40 PM roycroft: my business partner was a ham operator, and he adapted that software to use as a terminal server
11:41 PM pfred1: you have to pay the bills
11:41 PM Eric__: I looked up how to fix our google home mini and google was just full of nonsense
11:41 PM roycroft: we used that with a bank of telebit modems for the dialup pool
11:41 PM * roycroft uses duckduckgo, so that he does not have to feed teh google
11:41 PM pfred1: I had dial up until about 2000 or so?
11:42 PM roycroft: we just retired our dialup service last month
11:42 PM Eric__: duck duck go relies on google and gives the same bad info if google doesn't want to serve up anything useful
11:42 PM roycroft: we had only 3 customers left, and were upside down on t
11:42 PM roycroft: it
11:42 PM roycroft: we finally had to terminate the last three customers
11:42 PM roycroft: it doesn't, actually
11:42 PM pfred1: dial up can be surprisingly usable
11:42 PM roycroft: i've checked it out - i use duckduck go on the main machine
11:43 PM Eric__: all I wanted to know is if the switch on the bottom that disables the microphone is normally open or closed, no joy from google
11:43 PM roycroft: and google in tor browser in a virtual machine
11:43 PM roycroft: and i get totally different search results
11:43 PM pfred1: if you're not streaming video or something like that
11:43 PM roycroft: the problem is that there's so much embedded bullshit these days
11:43 PM Eric__: I actually tried duckduck on this search and was disappointed
11:43 PM roycroft: you go to get a text file
11:44 PM roycroft: and you find that there's 500MB of embedded crap with it
11:44 PM roycroft: because people have not learned how to use the internet properly yet
11:44 PM pfred1: yeah html is nuts today
11:44 PM roycroft: next year is going to be interesting
11:44 PM roycroft: flash is finally going away for good
11:44 PM roycroft: and i think adobe are going to stick to their word on that
11:44 PM pfred1: I haven't used flash in years
11:44 PM roycroft: half the internet is going to break then
11:45 PM roycroft: because adobe have only been telling people for a decade that flash is going away
11:45 PM pfred1: adobe really soured on Linux
11:45 PM roycroft: yet websites by the hundreds of thousands still rely on it
11:45 PM pfred1: they haven't supported us for a long time
11:46 PM pfred1: maybe my browser does fake flash?
11:46 PM roycroft: or maybe you miss a lot of stuff
11:46 PM pfred1: I wouldn't say I'm missing it
11:46 PM roycroft: i have my browsers set to ask me every time before loading flash content
11:46 PM roycroft: and they ask me a *lot*
11:47 PM pfred1: according to this page "You do not have Flash player installed."
11:47 PM roycroft: there may be more html5 than flash now
11:47 PM roycroft: but there's still a significant amount of flash in the universe
11:47 PM Eric__: long discussions about the google home mute switch with no useful info
11:47 PM pfred1: yeah I stopped even trying to get flash to work a long time ago
11:48 PM pfred1: I don't use adobe's acroreader either
11:48 PM roycroft: today (yesterday back east) was the last day that adobe are doing any updates to flash
11:48 PM roycroft: next month they will make it stop working
11:48 PM roycroft: and the internet will partially melt down
11:49 PM pfred1: they stopped Linux updates long ago
11:49 PM roycroft: and nobody cared :)
11:49 PM roycroft: the thing is, they stopped distributing flash development tools many years ago
11:50 PM roycroft: so all this flash content that is still being published is being made with ancient software
11:51 PM pfred1: once software is functional it does not need to be constantly updated
11:51 PM pfred1: I hate that about the computer world
11:51 PM pfred1: change for change sake
11:51 PM roycroft: so you think that flash is "functional"?
11:51 PM roycroft: it's tolerable at best
11:51 PM roycroft: and not even that any more
11:51 PM pfred1: ad functional as it needs to be
11:52 PM roycroft: if you don't are about performance or security
11:53 PM pfred1: not all software needs to be high performance
11:54 PM roycroft: flash was developed for pushing graphics on websites back in the dial-up days
11:54 PM roycroft: it needed to be lean and mean, and never was
11:54 PM roycroft: but even more importantly, it's been nothing but security holes throughout its history
11:54 PM pfred1: that's because people are assholes
11:56 PM roycroft: well all i'll say is this
11:56 PM roycroft: 2020 has been a horrible year
11:56 PM roycroft: one of the worst years ever
11:56 PM XXCoder: it was way better than java back then and why it was winner even with bad programming
11:56 PM roycroft: but the death of flash is one of the tiny positive things about this year
11:56 PM pfred1: and it was because peopel are asholes
11:57 PM * roycroft is not going to get into who was an asshole this year :)
11:57 PM pfred1: you think of all the bad things that happened this year it it was all caused by some asshole
11:57 PM roycroft: see above :)
11:57 PM roycroft: and don't try to put words in my mouth
11:57 PM roycroft: please
11:58 PM pfred1: I am a Malthusian
11:58 PM pfred1: as far as I'm concerned the more people there are the more problems there to go along with them
11:58 PM roycroft: i am an independent person with an independent mind
11:59 PM pfred1: everyone has problems but some people make their problems everyone else's problems and they're the real problem
11:59 PM * roycroft refers phred1 to the comments he made some moments ago