#linuxcnc Logs

Dec 17 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:26 AM unterhaus: JT oos too
01:39 AM Deejay: moin
04:47 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:21 AM Tom_L: morning
05:31 AM XXCoder: morning
05:48 AM Tom_L: 23F Hi 50
05:54 AM JT-Cave: we get that tomorrow, today a bit colder
05:54 AM JT-Cave: I'm half tempted to order the cutter head pulley and gasket again...
05:54 AM XXCoder: 45-49 f
05:55 AM JT-Cave: https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction.action?tLabels=9405511202555861139556
05:55 AM JT-Cave: frustrating
05:55 AM XXCoder: maybe someone there thought it was ps5 lol
05:57 AM JT-Cave: ps5?
05:57 AM XXCoder: playstation 5
05:57 AM XXCoder: pretty lot of cases of people stealing those in shipping
05:57 AM JT-Cave: https://www.renovoparts.com/1349352-cutterhead-pulley/
05:58 AM XXCoder: maybe in big box lol
05:58 AM XXCoder: not too likely its not the case then
06:38 AM JT-Cave: For all shipments, please note, shipping times will vary unpredictably until the USPS is back in full service.
06:39 AM XXCoder: covid + xmas
06:40 AM JT-Cave: yea
07:56 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, maybe they had bad weather between?
07:56 AM Tom_L: naw.... it's USPS we're talking about here...
07:57 AM JT-Cave: between St Louis and Poplar Bluff?
07:57 AM Tom_L: yeah nevermind :)
07:57 AM Tom_L: i forgot where it was shipped from
07:58 AM JT-Cave: came from Mi but arrived in St Louis on the 11th and has never been scanned out
08:01 AM JT-Cave: got another packaged departed Las Vegas on the 8th and never scanned again :(
09:32 AM unterhaus_: I got my package from East Nowhere Nebraska in less than a week. You aren't having very good luck
09:33 AM unterhaus_: I have three drives that say terminal fault send to factory so I have gone down a rabbit hole of reverse engineering. I'm pretty sure 2 of the drives are perfectly fine
09:34 AM unterhaus_: Looks like the processor is a custom motorola dsp56000
09:36 AM unterhaus_: motorola had a jtag derivitive they called "once" so that is not helping google searches _at all_
09:36 AM unterhaus_: too bad John Kasunich isn't around anymore
09:43 AM unterhaus_: I have some older drives that I want to get rid of. People have been paying big bucks for them on ebay, I better get them ready to sell
11:11 AM JT-Cave: turns out one package is still in Mi and the other one still in Nv
11:46 AM jymmmm: morning
11:49 AM roycroft: hello
11:59 AM gregcnc: lots of delays everywhere right now
11:59 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: flights you mean?
11:59 AM gregcnc: shipping
12:01 PM JT-Cave: supervisor sent emails to both to try and get my packages moving
12:03 PM roycroft: yeah, shipping is a mess
12:03 PM roycroft: both due to the usual holiday crazy times and due to so many people being out sick with covid-19
12:12 PM buzzmarshall: Motorola's OnCE was their On Chip Emulation module but the Jtag tap can still be used in the typical fashion depending on what your trying to do
12:12 PM buzzmarshall: if your trying to debug the drive tho the OnCE module would probably be the way to go
02:44 PM unterhaus_: I haven't figured out what's going on yet, I think it has a record that it saw a bad fault and refuses to proceed with booting
02:44 PM unterhaus_: so I guess if I can debug the boot sequence that would be good
02:44 PM unterhaus_: it refuses to talk over the serial port when this happens
02:46 PM unterhaus_: I should probably just try to cut my losses and sell them as-is definitely faulted on ebay
02:48 PM unterhaus_: They have a 10 pin header
03:02 PM perry_j1987: afternoon guys
03:47 PM JT-Shop: bout near quitting time here
03:48 PM Tom_L: just bout
03:48 PM Tom_L: cut a little steel part
03:48 PM JT-Shop: working on the jack shaft for the target retriever
03:49 PM JT-Shop: the VMC gave me a scare... drive fault when starting twice
03:49 PM JT-Shop: shut down open door and it worked lol
03:50 PM JT-Shop: how did the spindle do with steel?
03:51 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Czech_part.jpg
03:51 PM Tom_L: good
03:53 PM Tom_L: i got the slot a little deep but it's ok
04:02 PM JT-Shop: interesting part
04:15 PM Tom_L: it's a sort of hinge
04:42 PM _unreal_: so I got my new build cnc machine in its current state transported into work finally
04:42 PM _unreal_: got it setup and nothing is broke
04:42 PM _unreal_: now I just need the final parts ARG.......
04:43 PM _unreal_: hate waiting.
04:43 PM _unreal_: the most heavy part I'm still waiting for it to be mille
04:43 PM _unreal_: milled
04:43 PM _unreal_: cant do much with z till I get that DAMN thing :(
04:44 PM _unreal_: I'm stuck waiting on an other company because one of there dumb ass employes fucked up there milling machine
04:49 PM roycroft: so i decided what to do with my printer
04:49 PM roycroft: i'm making some quick change tool holders for it
04:50 PM roycroft: so i can swap the laser and the hot end extruder easily
04:50 PM roycroft: i'm not going to mount the laser on the side of the hot end
04:57 PM Tom_L: wish i had a full set of stub length drills
04:58 PM JT-Cave: yea I like screw machine drills better most of the time
04:59 PM Tom_L: https://www.travers.com/rm115co-115-pc-cob-135-stub-drill-set-rushmore/p/01-078-007/
04:59 PM Tom_L: ouch
04:59 PM Tom_L: https://www.travers.com/rm115b-115pc-blk-hs-135-stub-drill-set-rushmore/p/01-078-006/
05:00 PM Tom_L: that pic don't look any different than the set i have, it must be a standard pic
05:03 PM roycroft: if the stubbies are too expensive you can get a set of jobber length, cut off both ends of each drill, and resharpen the business ends
05:03 PM roycroft: because paying more for less is the american way
05:05 PM JT-Cave: can't resharpen coated drills...
05:06 PM JT-Cave: expensive for uncoated drills
05:09 PM JT-Cave: hmm drill bit sets have gotten expensive lol
05:12 PM infornography: why cant you resharpen coated?
05:12 PM infornography: I bet they would still work ok
05:13 PM infornography: as well as a crappy tin coated drill normally works anyway
05:18 PM JT-Cave: if you use crappy bits just get bright and sharpen them on your drill doctor
05:21 PM XXCoder: theres such thing as cnc grinder that can make drills and such for you
05:21 PM XXCoder: infornography: theres 3d printed stuff for resharping too
05:24 PM XXCoder: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3059363 << this one
05:24 PM XXCoder: even has relief add
05:25 PM JT-Cave: damn can't remember the way to install a github branch with pip3
05:25 PM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/f-khFlEaKE0 howto
05:25 PM Tom_L: i interpolated those holes for my softjaws because the 3/8" drill wouldn't fit with the vise
05:26 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJVDlQLMrg8
05:27 PM Tom_L: about as quick as changing tools thrice
05:32 PM Tom_L: https://coderwall.com/p/-wbo5q/pip-install-a-specific-github-repo-tag-or-branch
05:32 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave,
05:33 PM infornography: neat
05:34 PM JT-Cave: ah missing the @ works now
05:47 PM _unreal_: roycroft, I've been thinking about adding a LASER to my home cnc
05:48 PM _unreal_: just add a simple mount so I can pull out the vacuum and plop a laser head
05:48 PM _unreal_: use the z for focus
05:48 PM _unreal_: 7.75X12" WORK AREA what do you guys think would be a good power range for a laser? also this is in a a desktop cnc machiune
05:50 PM t4nk_freenode: baaaby you can DRIVE my CNCccccc
05:50 PM t4nk_freenode: with a LASER
05:51 PM t4nk_freenode: I'd use the x-axis for focusing the laser, be the first to do it!
05:56 PM sinned6915: question for people using linuxcnc in mill mode- what GUI do you prefer ?
05:58 PM JT-Cave: mine
05:58 PM JT-Cave: made with PyQtVCP
05:59 PM JT-Cave: https://github.com/jethornton/mill_touch_v6
05:59 PM XXCoder: laser makes everything 1000% cooler
06:00 PM sinned6915: JT-Cave: can that be used w/o toughscreen?
06:00 PM JT-Cave: it is used with a touch screen
06:00 PM JT-Cave: on my BP knee mill
06:03 PM enleth: _unreal_: get a cheap chinese UV laser head, play around with it, then you'll see if you need anything more powerful
06:06 PM enleth: although I'm not sure if you can get anything you'd consider "powerful" that can be easily retrofitted onto a desktop CNC
06:06 PM infornography: I have a 15w watt laser and I still would like a little more power. It cuts black acrylic pretty well, takes a couple of passes for 1/4"
06:07 PM enleth: I think that's about the limit of a single laser diode
06:07 PM enleth: maybe a bit higher, but not much
06:08 PM enleth: to get anything more, you need multiple fiber-coupled diodes and that gets expensive
06:08 PM enleth: or a CO2 laser, but that needs a stationary tube and moving mirrors to get the beam to the cutting head
06:09 PM enleth: it's definitely possible to fit a CO2 setup to some CNC routers, but the safety of such a machine might be questionable, as routers are typically not enclosed
06:13 PM t4nk_freenode: JT-Cave, ... it's 'relAtive', not reletive :)
06:13 PM pfred1: t4nk_freenode it's IRC, not English 101
06:14 PM t4nk_freenode: pfred1, no it's not irc... so perhaps you should just not try to involve yourself if you don't know what it's about.
06:15 PM pfred1: t4nk_freenode this is most definitely IRC
06:15 PM t4nk_freenode: yeah, fine, but it wasn't irc, that's the last I will say to you.
06:15 PM pfred1: t4nk_freenode you're right about that because you're going on my ignore list
06:16 PM t4nk_freenode: ask me if I care
06:16 PM Tom_L: i don't
06:16 PM t4nk_freenode: it's what I wanted before you even started
06:16 PM enleth: pfred1: he was referring to stuff JT-Cave published on github, which is not IRC - but utterly failed to convey what he really meant by "this is not irc"
06:16 PM enleth: to be honest, you both utterly failed at communicating stuff to each other
06:17 PM pfred1: enleth this is not github's bug tracker either
06:17 PM t4nk_freenode: I just didn't want to explain myself towards a clear brainless troll, that's all
06:17 PM JT-Cave: communication is very hard when details are left out or you say "it"
06:17 PM Tom_L: and here i thought that was you all along
06:17 PM enleth: t4nk_freenode: no, he's not a brainless troll, he's a regular here - so you are being an ass now
06:18 PM t4nk_freenode: look man, YOU are being an ass yourself for going on about it
06:18 PM enleth: t4nk_freenode: but he arguably being an ass a moment ago, too, not that this excuses you
06:18 PM Tom_L: ok kids
06:18 PM pfred1: my ass is my best feature
06:19 PM enleth: pfred1: are you saying that it's forbidden to point out bugs to someone who just linked to his github stuff, except using github bugs?
06:19 PM pfred1: enleth it certainly isn't
06:19 PM enleth: pfred1: that would mean most of the discussion about linuxcnc bugs that goes on here is verboten
06:19 PM enleth: so what exactly did that remark mean? it was pointless
06:20 PM * roycroft thinks it's about time to pass around some warm mugs of tasty glḧhwein
06:24 PM _unreal_: XXCoder, MY LASER etcher only makes it 100% better. being the NEJE micro thing
06:24 PM _unreal_: 1.5x1.5" etching area is kind of EHHHHHHH
06:25 PM _unreal_: enleth, I'm asking about wattage?
06:25 PM _unreal_: what power level
06:25 PM _unreal_: my cnc machine is a bedroom machine litteraly
06:25 PM _unreal_: desktop
06:28 PM _unreal_: ve7it, when I get the chance.....
06:28 PM pfred1: _unreal_ which one do you have?
06:28 PM _unreal_: I'm going to re-design a case and see if I can power up your servo design and finally figure out WTF is going wrong
06:28 PM _unreal_: pfred1, home built
06:29 PM pfred1: _unreal_ oh I see them for sale
06:29 PM enleth: _unreal_: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001830342671.html
06:30 PM _unreal_: pfred1, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QiVG-3oYM0k8G7jLCvv1eaoqVGQh-K_d/view?usp=sharing
06:30 PM XXCoder: 40w diodes?
06:30 PM XXCoder: i wonder if its actually 40w
06:30 PM enleth: _unreal_: the table somewhere in the description lists wattage levels and expected results, it appears mostly accurate
06:30 PM _unreal_: 40 watt WHOLY SHIT
06:30 PM _unreal_: ya I dont need that much power
06:30 PM pfred1: the Terminator would be happy
06:30 PM _unreal_: I am not likely to make any china orders
06:30 PM enleth: XXCoder: could be several ganged up in a very simple, self-contained fiber setup
06:31 PM _unreal_: not right now
06:31 PM XXCoder: interesting
06:31 PM _unreal_: if its not state side FUCK IT
06:31 PM _unreal_: boy that is tempting though
06:31 PM pfred1: yeah my China orders are taking their sweet time lately
06:32 PM _unreal_: I just ordered my new motion controller since I'm giving up on lcnc for the work machine
06:32 PM _unreal_: going to stock with planetcnc
06:32 PM enleth: _unreal_: that's a funny reaction when you're used to a 120W laser and often get annoyed at how underpowered it really is
06:32 PM _unreal_: My home laser etcher is what 1mwat
06:32 PM enleth: but 40W can do things, sure
06:33 PM _unreal_: https://www.wish.com/product/5d7747c65d948d305bc566f6?hide_login_modal=true&from_ad=goog_shopping&_display_country_code=US&_force_currency_code=USD&pid=googleadwords_int&c=%7BcampaignId%7D&ad_cid=5d7747c65d948d305bc566f6&ad_cc=US&ad_curr=USD&ad_price=54.00&campaign_id=7203534630&gclid=CjwKCAiAoOz-BRBdEiwAyuvA6wzm8g1vkOFxvIcYGbPAcEmF3oSMUgchC9IaBh3mYsNIhL8KYJjOwxoCG1QQAvD_BwE&share=web
06:33 PM enleth: I wouldn't go below 15W, that's where you pretty much lose the ability to cut anything other than maybe corrugated cardboard
06:33 PM _unreal_: so ya my current machine is a 1 watt
06:33 PM _unreal_: I can cut paper at 20mm/min
06:34 PM _unreal_: now I can etch the shit out of wood at 120mm/min but again micro work area :(
06:34 PM enleth: _unreal_: how about swapping the head off that engraver, onto the bigger CNC?
06:34 PM pfred1: I've thought about getting a 5W laser
06:34 PM _unreal_: enleth, I just dont have a sense of watt to power and ablity
06:35 PM _unreal_: and feed rate
06:35 PM _unreal_: enleth, I thought about it
06:35 PM _unreal_: but why... its a 1 watt
06:35 PM _unreal_: I can JOG at 550mm/min
06:36 PM enleth: 15W is a bare minimum to do any cutting, 40-50W starts being actually useful because it's no longer absurdly slow in 3mm plywood or acrylic
06:36 PM enleth: a 40W laser will cut 3mm ply at 15mm/s or so
06:36 PM _unreal_: HUM
06:36 PM _unreal_: and huge SMOKE
06:36 PM _unreal_: thats my other issue
06:36 PM _unreal_: bedroom desktop
06:36 PM _unreal_: sigh
06:37 PM enleth: enclosure, extractor, carbon filter
06:37 PM enleth: no way around it
06:37 PM _unreal_: no room :(
06:37 PM pfred1: just blow the smoke outside
06:37 PM _unreal_: well NO ROOM, little desire
06:37 PM enleth: acrylic doesn't produce much noticeable smoke, but it stinks
06:37 PM _unreal_: what feed/speed thickness per watt? for acrylic?
06:37 PM enleth: there's a very specific sweet-astringent smell to it
06:38 PM enleth: same as plywood, from my experience
06:38 PM pfred1: I hear different glue in plywood is different smelling
06:38 PM _unreal_: well I live in florida, biger problem is letting the "COLD" out
06:38 PM _unreal_: hehehehe
06:38 PM pfred1: here it is letting the cold in
06:38 PM enleth: this might be slightly different for visible spectrum lasers, my experience is mostly with CO2 lasers, that's far IR
06:39 PM _unreal_: I spent over 35 years in winter
06:39 PM _unreal_: I dont miss it
06:39 PM _unreal_: grew up in maine
06:39 PM pfred1: I've spent enough time in Florida they need the cold to knock down the bug population some
06:39 PM _unreal_: litteraly its like 70f outside right now
06:39 PM enleth: pfred1: glue in plywood is important for a different reason - some so-called "water-resistant" glues should be called "laser-resistant" instead
06:39 PM _unreal_: hehheheh
06:40 PM pfred1: enleth I've heard you have to laser good plywood
06:40 PM enleth: they turn into sooty sticky crap and the beam can't get through the first layer
06:40 PM enleth: pretty much, yes
06:40 PM _unreal_: I just want a "lazzzzrrrrrrr"
06:40 PM enleth: but if you ever need a body armor against that terminator rifle, just use boatmaking plywood
06:40 PM _unreal_: I assume there is a wattage limit where thats not an issue
06:41 PM pfred1: I remember one time i was trying to torch a door panel and i was wondering why it wasn't cutting turned out there was a big fiberglass patch panel on it
06:41 PM _unreal_: heh
06:42 PM _unreal_: I know fiberglass well enough
06:42 PM _unreal_: considering my line of work
06:42 PM enleth: _unreal_: actually, no, I don't think so - the 120W tube just *barely* punches through 3mm "water-resistant" ply at full power and crawling feedrate
06:42 PM pfred1: fiberglass is fairly fireproof
06:42 PM _unreal_: fiberglass is a browed description
06:43 PM pfred1: can you like blow compressed air in the cut?
06:43 PM enleth: _unreal_: proper laser-cutting 3mm ply gets it done at 60mm/s at 80% power
06:43 PM _unreal_: what resin type, what glass type, what thinkness what weave type
06:43 PM enleth: pfred1: you should, for several reasons
06:43 PM _unreal_: enleth, I'm more interested in cutting acrylic
06:44 PM _unreal_: what thickness/watt/feed
06:44 PM enleth: pfred1: it puts out any fires before they develop, pushes soot out of the kefr, protects the lens from smoke
06:44 PM _unreal_: I deal with a lot of acrylic working on boats
06:44 PM _unreal_: considering I work in the marine industry in south florida
06:44 PM pfred1: how far south?
06:45 PM _unreal_: I work out of fort lauderdale, live elsware
06:45 PM pfred1: I drove to Key West once and i swear half the state of Florida doesn't even really exist
06:45 PM _unreal_: else ware
06:45 PM _unreal_: ?
06:45 PM enleth: _unreal_: clear or opaque acrylic?
06:45 PM _unreal_: !
06:45 PM _unreal_: HUM
06:45 PM pfred1: it's on the map but when you go there it's kind of a swamp
06:45 PM _unreal_: mainly opaque, BLACK
06:45 PM enleth: visible spectrum lasers have an obvious problem when it comes to cutting clear acrylic
06:45 PM _unreal_: or dark
06:46 PM enleth: it's, well transparent to the beam
06:46 PM _unreal_: so your saying is not a CLEAR CUT solution lol
06:46 PM pfred1: can you hot knife acrylic?
06:47 PM _unreal_: pfred1, ish
06:47 PM enleth: not very well
06:47 PM _unreal_: pfred1, your more likely to dragg, TRUST ME i know
06:47 PM _unreal_: enleth, I do deal with a lot of the "carbon" DESIGN surface, acrylic. super FUCKING LOW TEMP to....
06:48 PM _unreal_: trying to cut that shit is misserable
06:48 PM pfred1: I know I've had troubles cutting plastics using like a jigsaw
06:48 PM _unreal_: melts to blades easy
06:48 PM pfred1: stuff welds back together
06:48 PM _unreal_: jig saw blades
06:48 PM enleth: hot knife only really works for expanded polymers, they shrink when the blade passes through
06:48 PM pfred1: yeah it is amazing on foam
06:49 PM enleth: acrylic doesn't have anywhere to go, so you're prying the sheet apart perpendicular to the cut line
06:49 PM enleth: and/or it is clamping down on the blade, same thing
06:49 PM _unreal_: 'HOT knife https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3vL4RqyNgQAaXZmOS1zUXdVSTg/view?usp=sharing
06:50 PM enleth: _unreal_: a 15W laser might be able to do something useful to 2mm acrylic
06:50 PM pfred1: I've gotten around the plastic melting problem by cutting underwater
06:50 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3vL4RqyNgQAbmZlZS11aU5OS28/view?usp=sharing
06:50 PM roycroft: you're not cuting correctly
06:50 PM enleth: _unreal_: the closer you get to 40W, the bigger chance of doing 3mm
06:50 PM roycroft: usually folks cut plastic too fast
06:51 PM roycroft: that heats up the blade
06:51 PM roycroft: causing the melting issue
06:51 PM pfred1: blade stays nice and cool underwater
06:51 PM roycroft: use a fairly coarse blade and a very slow speed
06:51 PM _unreal_: enleth, I deal with typically 4mm-11mm acrylic
06:51 PM roycroft: and you can cut plastics just fine with a jigsaw
06:51 PM _unreal_: I make a lot of CAD drawings for 11mm acrylic to be water jetted
06:52 PM enleth: _unreal_: forget it then, a 100W or bigger CO2 laser is needed for this
06:52 PM enleth: _unreal_: I'd say 150W to cut 11mm in a single pass
06:52 PM _unreal_: I'd go with a dedicated laser machine at that range3
06:52 PM pfred1: people make low rent water jets out of pressure washers
06:52 PM roycroft: the laser i bought was supposed to be 4.5w
06:52 PM roycroft: but it says 6000mw on the side
06:52 PM _unreal_: and I'm not about to do that unless its on the companies coin
06:52 PM roycroft: i'm happy about that
06:52 PM enleth: _unreal_: on a plus side, you can get a brand new 150W plotter for 1/8th of the price of a used waterjet
06:52 PM roycroft: i do not intend to try to cut plastics with it
06:53 PM roycroft: i'll mostly be using to make etching masks
06:53 PM _unreal_: ya I dont think my company is going to go for that any time soon
06:53 PM _unreal_: I my self MAY
06:53 PM _unreal_: who knows
06:53 PM roycroft: and maybe cutting some leather
06:53 PM roycroft: and "branding" wood
06:53 PM _unreal_: I really need to go back into self employment and upgrade my income
06:53 PM pfred1: I met a guy at a craft show once that had a water jet he didn't get much sleep
06:53 PM roycroft: 6w should suffice for that
06:53 PM roycroft: at least for now
06:54 PM _unreal_: roycroft, ya thats the level I'm looking at for my home DIY mkachine
06:54 PM _unreal_: again no enclosure
06:54 PM roycroft: i'm just going to mount it on my 3d printer
06:54 PM pfred1: he said he had to keep it running 24/7 to make payments on it
06:54 PM roycroft: i'm printing the brackets for the quick disconnects right now
06:54 PM _unreal_: and even if I did anythiung it would be just extration to a window exhaust
06:54 PM roycroft: this is a cheap experiment with laser technology
06:54 PM enleth: pfred1: yep, those things are crazy expensive and there are no small waterjet machines, it's a really weird market
06:55 PM roycroft: if things work out well i might upgrade to a 40w dedicated machine
06:55 PM roycroft: but as usual, the machine would not be the expense
06:55 PM _unreal_: if he has to keep it running 24/7 to make payments, he's not charging enough
06:55 PM roycroft: the extension i'd need to build for my shop to make room for it would be the expense :)
06:56 PM _unreal_: good lord I wont do shit on my small home cnc for anythiung less then $65/hr
06:56 PM pfred1: he was trying to sell these decorative 4x8 panels for like $300 a piece
06:56 PM roycroft: it chould cost no more than an hour per day to make the payments on a machine
06:56 PM pfred1: said he'd stack the steel a foot high and let the machine cut them all
06:56 PM roycroft: the cost of labor is going to be more than the cost of the machine
06:57 PM pfred1: was a really nice cut like someone sanded all the edges
06:57 PM enleth: well they did, in a way
06:57 PM pfred1: let's just say his work wasn't selling like hot cakes that day though
06:57 PM enleth: it's garnet that does the cutting, not the water itself
06:59 PM enleth: I tried to find a small waterjet cutter (both in terms of work area and of power/material capacity), as I'd like to be able to cut pre-hardened spring steel sheet up to maybe 3mm to make planar springs, maybe up to 150x150mm - and it turned out that almost no one ever made waterjets this small
06:59 PM pfred1: go big or go home
06:59 PM _unreal_: that does not suprise me
06:59 PM _unreal_: normal is 4+x8
06:59 PM _unreal_: I've seen a lot of 6x8 water jets
06:59 PM enleth: even the small footprint machines for R&D shops use full size pumps, at which point the pump takes up more space than the router
07:00 PM gregcnc: only puny one is that omax
07:00 PM _unreal_: we have a water jet company I've built something like 300 cad drawings for over the past 7 years
07:00 PM _unreal_: since I moved to FL
07:00 PM _unreal_: naa prob more like 225 range
07:01 PM _unreal_: regardless
07:01 PM enleth: so I can buy a machine that will cut tank armor plates and gravestones (which sounds like an excellent sustainable busines plan!), but I'm screwed if all I need is small springs
07:01 PM _unreal_: small springs?
07:01 PM enleth: _unreal_: planar springs cut out of sheet spring steel
07:02 PM gregcnc: at that point do you just job it out?
07:02 PM enleth: the only way to make them is waterjet or EDM
07:02 PM enleth: gregcnc: not if you do R&D
07:02 PM enleth: plasma or laser will screw up heat treatment
07:02 PM _unreal_: hehe
07:03 PM enleth: and you can't heat treat intricate, delicate shapes, they'll warp into pretzels
07:03 PM _unreal_: and blades have there own issues
07:03 PM _unreal_: T&M for sure
07:03 PM gregcnc: doesn't sounds like a feasible plan if the work can't buy the machine required and you can't job it out
07:03 PM _unreal_: hehe I've paid for my home machine prob 1k times now
07:04 PM _unreal_: and I'm still broke SIGH.. well this year anyways
07:06 PM enleth: gregcnc: at this point I wanted to have a prototyping capability in that specific material, mostly to learn and experiment, and the machine would be a long-term investment
07:07 PM enleth: gregcnc: but I shelved the idea because those things are just so fucking stupid expensive and big
07:07 PM pfred1: DIY has not made many inroads with water jets
07:08 PM enleth: for almost any other manufacturing process, you *can* get the hardware relatively cheap if you're prepared to fix it, or to work with old machines, or both
07:08 PM enleth: milling, sink EDM, laser cutting, plasma cutting, anything
07:08 PM enleth: just not waterjets
07:09 PM pfred1: people are still paying them off yet
07:09 PM enleth: heck, you can set up injection molding for a small fraction of the price of a used waterjet
07:10 PM enleth: it won't be pretty, it won't be fast, and it will have limitations, but you *can*
07:10 PM gregcnc: are auctions a thing over there? can you find deals?
07:11 PM enleth: they're all crap, even used beat up machines cost more than all the rest of the equipment and tools I have, combined
07:11 PM enleth: a lot more
07:12 PM enleth: there was this project that stared out on some university, students trying to build an affordable waterjet
07:12 PM enleth: then they got VC funding and it turned into Wazer
07:13 PM enleth: 7kUSD for a desktop waterjet that looks like it was made for Apple fanboy hipsters
07:13 PM enleth: sure, it's orders of magnitude cheaper than the alternatives
07:13 PM gregcnc: the little Omax is 24kUSD.
07:14 PM enleth: but a significant part of the price is stupid useless bling
07:14 PM enleth: not paying for that
07:15 PM enleth: they did one useful thing, though
07:15 PM enleth: of course they claim that they managed to built it using some special, sooper seekrit magical pump technology that they "researched"
07:15 PM enleth: well, I looked for a teardown video
07:16 PM enleth: they use a bog standard off the shelf triplex pump for industrial pressure washers
07:16 PM enleth: 500bar or so
07:17 PM enleth: I was wondering if a pump like that would work in a waterjet and they were kind enough to confirm it, even if they don't want to admit it
07:17 PM gregcnc: https://www.cnc.info.pl/elektrodrazarka-drutowa-scx-2-wbkx-6-t98504.html
07:18 PM enleth: and it makes sense - before the invention of intensifier pumps, whch are the current standard for waterjets, the first waterjet cutters in the 60s or so used triplex pumps
07:18 PM enleth: because that's all they had
07:18 PM enleth: sure, it's 500bar, not 5000 like an intensifier
07:18 PM enleth: but it cuts, it's just a tad slow
07:19 PM enleth: gregcnc: seen something similar lately for an equivalent of, like, 600EUR or so
07:19 PM enleth: on a local auction site
07:19 PM enleth: sink EDMs too, similar prices
07:20 PM enleth: at this point, EDM is no longer the magical unicorn of manufacturing tech that it was at one point, you can buy used equipment for what is essentially pocket change
07:20 PM enleth: but waterjets still are, even though they've been around for just as long
07:21 PM gregcnc: EDM won't make your parts?
07:21 PM enleth: probably, and I'm considering it
07:22 PM enleth: although I'd prefer a small waterjet - if it existed - for more versatility
07:22 PM unterhaus_: you can buy $1000 chinese instron copies on ebay
07:22 PM unterhaus_: I might need one for a consulting job
07:30 PM enleth: gregcnc: problem with wire EDM for planar springs and flexures is that they often have a lot of enclosed cuts, so you need to drill starting holes and re-thread the wire for every one of them
07:31 PM gregcnc: right
07:31 PM enleth: so it would work, but it would be a major PITA to prepare and babysit a part
07:32 PM enleth: I'm actually more inclined towards a sink EDM, it might not appear to be a perfect match for sheet material, but at least it can punch through on its own
07:33 PM pfred1: if it was easy everyone would be doing it
08:22 PM Tom_L: evening
08:53 PM unterhaus_: I did some fatigue test on aluminum that was edm cut, it was like mush
08:54 PM unterhaus_: probably not the best thing for a flexure
09:05 PM enleth: unterhaus_: I wouldn't consider *aluminum* to be the best thing, or any thing, for a flexure anyway
09:06 PM unterhaus_: true, but I imagine it does something similar to other materials
09:07 PM enleth: I don't see how this would relate to spring steel
09:07 PM enleth: the whole reason I'm looking at weird manufacturing technologies is to be able to use pre-hardened spring steel
09:10 PM enleth: you sure that aluminum wasn't just shite even before it got cut on the EDM, anyway?
09:13 PM roycroft: yeah, you really need to test some of the same material that was not edm cut to compare
09:32 PM Tom_L: i used to make test specimens from sections of LARGE blocks of aluminum
09:32 PM Tom_L: different grain direction etc
09:33 PM Tom_L: plate and round
09:43 PM CaptHindsight: ho ho ho
09:44 PM net|: http://www.micromagic.com/
09:44 PM net|: 70mw 3 ghz computer suposedly
09:45 PM CaptHindsight: less gates, less power
09:48 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6kRYKvWF1E
09:48 PM roycroft: i tweaked my gluehwein recipe slightly - added some star anise and some allspice berries
09:48 PM roycroft: it was a nice little improvement
09:49 PM CaptHindsight: huh, I'm not a fan of the licorice family of flavors
09:49 PM CaptHindsight: but I bet it's good
09:50 PM roycroft: i just added one star anise - it is a very subtle addition
09:50 PM CaptHindsight: when it leads the charge of flavor I head the other way
09:50 PM roycroft: this was in 2 liters
09:51 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: what wine do you start with?
09:51 PM roycroft: tonight i used a cabernet sauvignon
09:51 PM roycroft: i usually like to use zinfandel, though
09:51 PM CaptHindsight: heh now I'm thinking about making some, thanks, just got back from the store
09:52 PM roycroft: a nice zin has some pepper and berry notes that work well with the mulling spices
09:52 PM roycroft: it's that time of year
09:53 PM roycroft: i usually just use cinnamon and cloves as the spices
09:54 PM roycroft: but i decided to try something different today
10:28 PM CaptHindsight is now known as NotaBotReally
10:32 PM NotaBotReally is now known as CaptHindsight
10:50 PM sinned6915: anyone familiar with MESA's products?
10:50 PM sinned6915: I am trying to make heads and tails out of some of the different models
10:50 PM CaptHindsight: sinned6915: just ask
10:51 PM sinned6915: my project is to convert a benchtop mill , 3axis + 4 maybe, & spindle control
10:51 PM CaptHindsight: https://mesaus.com/ does this help?
10:51 PM sinned6915: if you look at their plug and go kits
10:51 PM sinned6915: sorry, i am a bit slow typing
10:51 PM CaptHindsight: ethernet or PCI/e?
10:52 PM sinned6915: that is one thing i was confused about
10:52 PM CaptHindsight: no problem, me too
10:52 PM CaptHindsight: how do you wish to connect the PC to the FPGA?
10:52 PM sinned6915: for comparison, i was considering CNCDrive with thier eithernet controller
10:52 PM sinned6915: https://www.cncdrive.com/UCCNC.html
10:53 PM sinned6915: https://www.cncdrive.com/AXBB.html
10:53 PM CaptHindsight: or do you wish to use a LPT port and BOB and software step?
10:53 PM sinned6915: which is ethernet
10:53 PM sinned6915: i was reasearching limnuxcnc
10:53 PM sinned6915: i can do BOB and software
10:54 PM CaptHindsight: those links are for products that don't work with LCNC
10:54 PM CaptHindsight: yes, if your chosen PC can software step fast enough
10:54 PM sinned6915: i know, that was my basis for comparison
10:54 PM sinned6915: i prefer to go the limux route
10:54 PM CaptHindsight: what the latency test is all about
10:55 PM sinned6915: i am not worried about pc, i have a couple to choose from.
10:55 PM CaptHindsight: turn off all power management and virtualization in BIOS
10:55 PM sinned6915: i was leaning towards a 5i25
10:55 PM CaptHindsight: you never know, many PC's have broken BIOSes
10:55 PM CaptHindsight: if you use a FPGA then latency is far less an issue
10:56 PM CaptHindsight: http://mesaus.com/pci-and-pcie-solutions/
10:56 PM sinned6915: who is that site you link? it makes WAY more sense
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: 5i25 + 7i78
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: it's a reseller of mesa cards
10:57 PM sinned6915: is that you?
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: nope
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: he's asleep right now
10:57 PM sinned6915: ok, so spindle control is the other issue i am grappling with
10:58 PM sinned6915: sec for link
10:58 PM sinned6915: this is the EXACT same machine i am workign on
10:58 PM CaptHindsight: 11pm is his middle of the night, what i call evening
10:58 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: howdy
10:59 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: doody
10:59 PM jymmmm: =)
10:59 PM sinned6915: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLZDgtT90Nc
10:59 PM sinned6915: there he is talking about using a 0-10V servo driver to control the spindle.
10:59 PM CaptHindsight: sinned6915: what type of motor for your spindle?
10:59 PM sinned6915: its a brushed DC motor.
11:00 PM CaptHindsight: yes analog control
11:00 PM sinned6915: so the 7i77 confuses me
11:00 PM CaptHindsight: sinned6915: which driver for your spindle motor?
11:00 PM sinned6915: i dont have one yet
11:00 PM CaptHindsight: ah
11:01 PM CaptHindsight: 7i77 is 6 analog servo outs and encoder channels
11:01 PM sinned6915: will it only do servos ?
11:01 PM CaptHindsight: for closed loop/servo obviously
11:01 PM sinned6915: can it talk steppers too?
11:01 PM CaptHindsight: 7i76 is stepper
11:02 PM CaptHindsight: stepper Step and Dir
11:02 PM sinned6915: can you have a mixed system or servos and steppers in the same machine?
11:02 PM CaptHindsight: 7i77 is analog out 0-10V, no Step and Dir
11:02 PM CaptHindsight: sure
11:03 PM CaptHindsight: will you have steppers on each axis?
11:03 PM sinned6915: yes
11:03 PM CaptHindsight: and the brushed DC spindle motor?
11:03 PM sinned6915: yup, exactly
11:03 PM CaptHindsight: you can software step using a LPT port and BOB
11:04 PM sinned6915: so i was pretty much set on 5i25 adn 7176
11:04 PM sinned6915: then got confused by the ethernet version of 7i76
11:04 PM CaptHindsight: you don't need the 7i77
11:04 PM sinned6915: 7i76E
11:05 PM CaptHindsight: the ethernet versions use ethernet vs PCI/e to connect to the FPGA
11:05 PM sinned6915: so what is comparable FPGA>
11:05 PM sinned6915: ?
11:06 PM CaptHindsight: the FPGA does hardware stepping
11:06 PM sinned6915: the only 'kits' i see are Ppt
11:06 PM CaptHindsight: does not use the LPT port
11:06 PM sinned6915: i will re-ask
11:06 PM sinned6915: if I go with a 7i76E, what FPGA do I need?
11:07 PM CaptHindsight: the 7i76e has Step and Dir outputs to drive your stepper motors and an analog out for the spindle
11:07 PM CaptHindsight: the 7i76 is the FPGA!
11:07 PM CaptHindsight: the 7i76e sorry
11:08 PM sinned6915: the description confuses me. it says it has 2 FPGA expansion connectors
11:08 PM CaptHindsight: so PC <----->ethernet<----->7i76e
11:08 PM sinned6915: i must hve missed that its the FPGA too
11:08 PM CaptHindsight: https://mesaus.com/product/7i76e/
11:08 PM CaptHindsight: yes all in one card
11:09 PM sinned6915: so the cost is basically the same for either solution
11:09 PM CaptHindsight: not sure, but likely close +/- $100 :)
11:09 PM sinned6915: what would I need to consider to go Ethernet or Ppt cable?
11:09 PM CaptHindsight: with FPGA you can step much faster
11:10 PM sinned6915: 5i25/7176 kit is $210, the 7176e is $200
11:10 PM CaptHindsight: but if you latency on the LPT port is fast enough for your required highest job speed then software stepping is fine
11:10 PM CaptHindsight: job/jog
11:10 PM CaptHindsight: you/your
11:11 PM CaptHindsight: my spelling is crap right now, well most days
11:11 PM sinned6915: max bit size is 1/4", spindle limit i think is 5000
11:11 PM CaptHindsight: RPM on the spindle?
11:11 PM sinned6915: i will proably do plastic and some light aluminum
11:11 PM sinned6915: yes
11:12 PM sinned6915: i think the spindle was 'derated' in the 80's and its a trainer
11:12 PM roycroft: a 'bit' goes in a horse's mouth :)
11:12 PM sinned6915: that would be my limiting component, the spindle speed
11:12 PM sinned6915: roycroft: LOL
11:13 PM sinned6915: ok, so burn a live CD and try the latency test?
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: spindle speed would not be limited by latency or step rates
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: yes, first step
11:13 PM roycroft: spindle speed control does not have to be real time at all
11:14 PM sinned6915: no, not spindle speed control, but spidle speed in general
11:14 PM roycroft: i have a system board that has pretty low latency
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: then figure your maximum required step rate
11:14 PM roycroft: certainly an acceptable amount
11:14 PM sinned6915: i am guessing i will be able to outrun the spindle with the system
11:15 PM roycroft: but i got a 5i15/7i76 anyway, so i don't ever have to worry about latency
11:15 PM roycroft: 5i25
11:15 PM sinned6915: that is kind of what i was leaning towards
11:15 PM CaptHindsight: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TweakingSoftwareStepGeneration
11:15 PM roycroft: i can kind of spell, but i can't remember things and i can't type
11:15 PM sinned6915: but then i got confused by the 7176e
11:15 PM CaptHindsight: sinned6915: do you know how to compute your max step rate?
11:16 PM sinned6915: i read it i the dcos
11:16 PM sinned6915: docs
11:16 PM CaptHindsight: steps per rev, microsteps, pitch of lead or balls screw, gear ratios etc etc
11:16 PM roycroft: one reason i got what i got is so i would not have to worry about some future machine having an ethernet port that linuxcnc thought was too funky to deal with
11:16 PM sinned6915: i was going to do a spreadsheet to calc it out
11:17 PM roycroft: another reason is that i thought at the time that, since i'm a one person shop and would likely only be operating one cnc machine at a time, i might use one linuxcnc computer to talk to multiple machines, but unplugging the cable from the 5i25 on one machine and plugging it into another
11:18 PM sinned6915: yeah, that never works well in my experience
11:18 PM roycroft: it would work well on the linuxcnc side
11:19 PM roycroft: but now folks are running linxucnc on rpis
11:19 PM roycroft: so if i were to start today i might consider an rpi
11:19 PM roycroft: i have limited space in my shop - that's a big consideration
11:19 PM roycroft: multiple computers to run the cnc machines would be a waste of precious real estate
11:20 PM roycroft: but an rpi can be stuck on a machine with velcro and consume zero real estate
11:20 PM sinned6915: what do you do for interface on the raspi/
11:20 PM sinned6915: ?
11:20 PM roycroft: there's a mesa board with an ethernet connection designed specifically for an rpi, i think
11:20 PM roycroft: or maybe it plugs directly into the rpi
11:22 PM roycroft: look at the 7c81
11:23 PM CaptHindsight: sinned6915: ethernet on the RPi4
11:23 PM CaptHindsight: or ^^ what he said
11:23 PM roycroft: or the 7c80
11:23 PM sinned6915: i am trying to understand what is meant by 'sinking outputs'
11:23 PM CaptHindsight: sinned6915: open drain/collector
11:24 PM CaptHindsight: the outputs sink a voltage when active
11:24 PM sinned6915: why would someone want/need that?
11:24 PM CaptHindsight: they pull the voltage LOW
11:24 PM CaptHindsight: they sink vs source
11:25 PM roycroft: the anise flavor is *very* subtle
11:25 PM roycroft: i think someone who does not like locorice flavors might not mind this at all
11:26 PM sinned6915: what are you drinking, sambuca?
11:26 PM roycroft: gluhwein
11:26 PM CaptHindsight: glue wine
11:27 PM sinned6915: man, that is a tough one, 7C80 or 7i76e
11:27 PM sinned6915: i mean, as standard as a raspi is, it makes me a little leery to go that proprietary
11:28 PM roycroft: none of those were available when i bought my mesa boards
11:28 PM roycroft: mesa boards are pretty widely supported
11:28 PM CaptHindsight: just FYI, the 7i76e All 7I76E Ethernet communication is done via UDP packets.
11:28 PM veegee: https://youtu.be/v26fTGBEi9E?t=687
11:28 PM veegee: How heavy is that track?
11:28 PM veegee: Did he really need to jump out of the way so dramatically?
11:29 PM roycroft: you link to youtube
11:29 PM roycroft: and you question someone being over dramatic
11:29 PM roycroft: have you never been to the youtube before?
11:30 PM sinned6915: CaptHindsight: dotn they all communicate through UDP?
11:31 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/tcp-vs-udp-understanding-the-difference/
11:34 PM sinned6915: what versions are you guys running?
11:34 PM sinned6915: 2.7? 2.8? earlier?
11:35 PM veegee: roycroft it's a safety video from 1980
11:35 PM veegee: I linked to the specific time in the video
11:35 PM CaptHindsight: mostly 2.8
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: I have older systems that still run older versions
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: but i have unusual LCNC systems
11:37 PM sinned6915: has the latency test changed?
11:37 PM CaptHindsight: a little
11:37 PM sinned6915: i have an older version installed on this when i was trying to play around with it befire
11:38 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/39371-results-of-latency-test-list-of-computers-tested-for-use-with-linuxcnc?start=0
11:38 PM CaptHindsight: also preempt_rt vs RTAI
11:39 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/39370-script-for-automated-testing-of-computer-latency
11:41 PM sinned6915: brb
11:42 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: using up a batch made from distillers yeast and sugar water here
11:42 PM CaptHindsight: fermented like mad
11:46 PM CaptHindsight: ~20% abv, needs to be filtered unless if you like the taste of yeast
11:47 PM XXCoder: LOL https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/laserpecker-pro/laserpecker-2-the-best-handheld-laser-engraverandcutter?ref=section-design-tech-projectcollection-1-staff-picks-popular
11:47 PM XXCoder: no flipping goggles.
11:50 PM CaptHindsight: huh and not import restricted
11:54 PM CaptHindsight: i don't know how that gets passed the FDA requirements
11:54 PM XXCoder: it probably didnt
11:54 PM CaptHindsight: "Just do it!"
11:55 PM CaptHindsight: Manufacturing and selling is illegal, not possession or safe use
11:55 PM CaptHindsight: If a laser is found to be non-compliant, the manufacturer may be required by FDA to take corrective action such as offering a repair, recall or refund. However, it is not legally required for the owner to repair or turn in the laser.
11:57 PM roycroft: just make your own laser
11:57 PM roycroft: it's cheaper and more satisfying
11:57 PM roycroft: so i almost bought a new webcam today
11:58 PM roycroft: i had purchased a cheap used one at the goodwill for monitoring my 3d printer
11:58 PM roycroft: and the cam kept disconnecting
11:58 PM roycroft: i thought it was defective
11:58 PM roycroft: but tonight i used the linux laptop to connect to the octoprint machine
11:58 PM roycroft: and the cam is rock steady on linux in firefox
11:59 PM roycroft: but on all three of my macs it disconnects every minute or so no matter what the browser
11:59 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2118335444/automate-anything-with-super-gerbil-cnc-gcode-cont?ref=discovery&term=laser