#linuxcnc Logs

Dec 01 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:41 AM unterhaus: someone ported wine back to windows so you can run 16 bit windows programs on 64 bits
01:03 AM XXCoder: yeah saw that. silly
01:04 AM XXCoder: but fortunate for people who wanna 16 bit stuff to run
01:09 AM unterhaus: I have some 16 bit drive setup software
01:10 AM unterhaus: they published the protocol, but do I really want to re-write the software? No
01:11 AM unterhaus: 47 people in the world would love me for it if I did though
01:11 AM unterhaus: you can buy the software from AB for a couple thousand $
01:12 AM unterhaus: when you search for it, there are a batch of people whining about AB taking it behind a paywall
01:13 AM unterhaus: funny to think that after you pay AB big $, you still can't run it
01:24 AM unterhaus: maybe I just just dual boot my lcnc computers with 32 bit win 10
01:40 AM Loetmichel: mornin'. Hehe, 3 flakes of snow and everyone drives like they never have seen one... in 15 minutes of commute i have seen three accidents. MAAN do they even have a drivers license?
01:40 AM XXCoder: we have infinite bad drivers
03:17 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:41 AM Deejay: moin
04:20 AM Loetmichel: * *giggle* * ... $me singing along with "sound of silence" in the radio at full tilt... Coworkers look flabbergasted... "You should go for a singer career!" $me: "nope, only a handful songs i can do like that, sang them 35 years ago in school in music ed... I am not that good at anything else really."
04:48 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:05 AM Loetmichel: maaan that gash i put into my left palm yesterday is starting to annoy me. Every time i use the hand it opens up again and starts to bleed thru the bandaid staining everythingi am working on. *changeing the bandaid AGAIN* *grmbl*
05:40 AM JT-Cave: it's a chilly 22°F in Coop Deux this morning
05:46 AM Tom_L: morning
05:46 AM Tom_L: 32F
05:50 AM JT-Cave: c = reference sw = driven
06:01 AM rs[m]: Loetmichel: just superglue it
07:39 AM enleth: Loetmichel: get some spray-on wound glue
07:40 AM enleth: (it's CA glue with a 2-octyl function group instead o methyl, so it's less likely to be an irritant or cause an allergic reaction)
07:42 AM jymmmm: Morning
07:42 AM enleth: rs[m]: heh, didn't notice you said pretty much the same thing
07:43 AM Loetmichel: hehe
07:43 AM Loetmichel: i have flexible CA here
07:43 AM Loetmichel: should be good enough, i am not that easily irritated
07:43 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: or get semo stro strips
07:43 AM jymmmm: steri-strips
07:43 AM enleth: yep, many people tolerate methyl CA well
07:52 AM miss0r: I just saw some oil that would solve many things :D EP1700
07:52 AM miss0r: Now that is cold sirup is I ever saw it
08:00 AM sensille: medical glue is also just pure superglue
08:19 AM JT-Shop: one fire going two left to go
08:22 AM Loetmichel: sensille: modern medical glue is modified superglue
08:22 AM Loetmichel: made to be flexible and less irritant
11:51 AM andypugh: miss0r: I used to have some silicone oil for damping fuel gauges. 20,000 cSt.
11:52 AM andypugh: If you fipped a pencil in it would draw out 1” diameter.
01:02 PM enleth: sensille: see my comment above - it's not exactly the same superglue, or rather, there's more than one "superglue", the cyanoacrylate base works with several different function groups that provide different properties
01:03 PM enleth: sensille: the "superglue" available everywhere is methyl cyanoacrylate, works best as a general purpose glue but not great for medical applications, some people are sensitive to the methyl group
01:04 PM enleth: 2-octyl cyanoacrylate isn't as great of a glue but is gentler on the skin and almost everyone tolerates it well
01:05 PM sensille: interesting. i tried to find out a while ago what that medical glue is, and all i found it is the same as industrial superglue, even produced by the same machines
01:05 PM enleth: there's a bunch of other alternative function groups used for specific applications too
01:06 PM enleth: sensille: I'm sure 2-octyl cyanoacrylate is also used industrially for *something*, so that statement might technically be true
01:06 PM enleth: it's just not the whole picture
01:07 PM enleth: nevertheless, you can use regular household CA glue on wounds, if you know that your body takes it well
01:11 PM enleth: one advantage of the medical version is that it's available in a little handy spray can, much easier to apply than dripping it from a tube or bottle
08:16 PM t4nk_freenode: Iknowaboooooy aboyyyycaallleeedd _uuuuhunreaaaal_
08:16 PM t4nk_freenode: _uhunreaa-eel_
08:16 PM t4nk_freenode: and he won't tell me his setttttingssss
08:17 PM t4nk_freenode: oh no, not me
08:19 PM pfred1: never ask a boy his settings
08:23 PM t4nk_freenode: I wonder what he's up to
08:33 PM bjorkintosh: not telling you his settings!
09:17 PM pfred1: big pp settings!
10:26 PM unterhaus_: I'm trying to use the backport of wine to windows. People on the project put a huge amount of work in it
10:27 PM unterhaus_: but there is virtually no help
10:27 PM pfred1: wine gives me such a hangover it's the sulphates
10:28 PM unterhaus_: the wine people will at least insult you real-time
10:28 PM unterhaus_: "I assume you know how to type on the command line"
10:28 PM roycroft: just install a hypervisor and a real copy of windows if you need to run windows apps
10:29 PM pfred1: need is such a strong word
10:29 PM pfred1: we all got by before there were PCs
10:29 PM pfred1: granted things were tougher then
10:29 PM unterhaus_: if you are toing to approach it that way, yeah
10:29 PM unterhaus_: we also got by without cnc
10:30 PM pfred1: they want like $120 for a copy of Windows
10:30 PM roycroft: most of us were not alive before there were pcs
10:30 PM pfred1: I was
10:30 PM pfred1: I'm a boomer
10:30 PM roycroft: as was i
10:30 PM roycroft: and you can buy a legal copy of windows 10 pro for $27 on ebay
10:30 PM pfred1: heck I can remember when PCs didn't exist
10:31 PM unterhaus_: I can get a copy of windows running, don't wanna
10:31 PM pfred1: when only geeks in lab coats got neat computers
10:31 PM pfred1: near even
10:31 PM roycroft: i've been using unix since 1977
10:31 PM unterhaus_: what I really would like to do is get the program running on wine in the lcnc computer
10:31 PM pfred1: in 1977 I was still trying to make my own computer
10:31 PM roycroft: well what i would really like is for this pandemic to be over
10:32 PM pfred1: more like scamdemic
10:32 PM unterhaus_: I used to see the guys that wrote the bugbook all the time
10:32 PM roycroft: i suspect neither of us will get our wish
10:32 PM roycroft: don't start with that tonight
10:32 PM pfred1: the rona is media hype
10:32 PM roycroft: please
10:32 PM roycroft: do not start with that
10:32 PM unterhaus_: you started it
10:32 PM roycroft: no, i did not
10:33 PM pfred1: I'm not saying it doesn't exist but I think it's been blown out of proportion
10:33 PM roycroft: ok, since you're going to be an asshole, i'll come back some other time
10:33 PM unterhaus_: the program is very close to running on the win 10 computer
10:33 PM pfred1: what program?
10:34 PM unterhaus_: it's called dsmpro, runs setup for my drives
10:35 PM pfred1: so it isn't this https://dsm-software.com/
10:36 PM unterhaus_: no
10:36 PM unterhaus_: https://www.kollmorgen.com/en-us/developer-network/dsmpro16zip/
10:37 PM pfred1: ah ha servo
10:37 PM pfred1: I hope you learn a good lesson in all of this
10:37 PM unterhaus_: I have most of the information needed to replicate it, but it would be incredibly tedious
10:37 PM pfred1: proprietary software screws you
10:37 PM unterhaus_: yeah, windows sucks like that
10:38 PM pfred1: maybe not today but someday
10:38 PM pfred1: it always gets you in the end
10:38 PM unterhaus_: they tell you how to write your own software, essentially
10:38 PM pfred1: there's people creaking along with Windows 95 today still because of proprietary software
10:39 PM unterhaus_: this noting in comparison to the b.s. I have bought for work
10:39 PM pfred1: it is crazy that people rely on the stuff
10:39 PM XXCoder: theres still billions of lines of code in cobol
10:39 PM XXCoder: too much work to convert em
10:39 PM unterhaus_: well, at work we make our money back out of it, so it's not so bad
10:40 PM XXCoder: if youre cobol programmer you can make mucho moneyo
10:40 PM unterhaus_: I know a cobol programmer
10:40 PM unterhaus_: I hate cobol so much, I offered to smother him in his sleep
10:40 PM pfred1: any good programmer can make money
10:40 PM XXCoder: national average 45 dollars a hour
10:41 PM unterhaus_: he works for an insurance company
10:41 PM pfred1: heck I'm lucky if i can get someone else's code to compile
10:41 PM unterhaus_: big fines if his code doesn't work
10:42 PM unterhaus_: I just got started with this wine on windows thing because I thought it was interesting
10:42 PM pfred1: I used to be able to jigger code to get it to build but gcc is getting prickly in its old age anymore
10:43 PM unterhaus_: if I can get wine to run my program on lcnc, I'll be pretty happy
10:43 PM pfred1: people are clever and get amazing things to happen
10:43 PM unterhaus_: I can code just fine, but why
10:43 PM pfred1: I can't code my way out of a soggy paper bag
10:44 PM pfred1: stuff is gibberish to me
10:44 PM unterhaus_: like I said last night, if I re-wrote this program open source, 47 people world-wide would love me
10:44 PM unterhaus_: one of them might contribute to my patreon
10:45 PM unterhaus_: I read the command code doc last night, so I haven't given up on the idea
10:46 PM pfred1: unterhaus_ maybe you can write a simple utility?
10:46 PM pfred1: sometimes people are all or nothing
10:46 PM pfred1: there is a middle ground though
10:46 PM pfred1: I see it in software projects
10:46 PM unterhaus_: true, if I wrote a very simple version then someone might make a decent upgrade
10:46 PM pfred1: oh it's too much to implement
10:47 PM pfred1: then just do half of it
10:47 PM pfred1: in this one program they don't want to implement a feature because in one use case it'd be difficult
10:47 PM pfred1: then just don't implement that
10:47 PM unterhaus_: you can buy this little box that hangs off the serial port with a keypad to do the software
10:48 PM unterhaus_: it's about 2"x2"x1"
10:48 PM pfred1: what's in the box?
10:48 PM unterhaus_: to do anything interesting with it you need a cheat sheet
10:49 PM unterhaus_: it's a little computer, I should take it apart
10:49 PM pfred1: we live in amazing times
10:49 PM unterhaus_: this is 20 years old by now
10:49 PM pfred1: can't be much of a computer then
10:49 PM pfred1: microcontroller?
10:50 PM unterhaus_: yeah, it's pretty interesting, I'm surprised I haven't broken into it
10:50 PM pfred1: I've been getting into breaking into AC adapters myself lately
10:50 PM unterhaus_: but they have had single chip microcontrollers that could do this job for 40 years
10:50 PM pfred1: so satisfying breakign them open
10:51 PM unterhaus_: what's in an ac adapter that's interesting to look at?
10:51 PM pfred1: not much in the old transformer ones but the SMPS ones are cool
10:51 PM pfred1: I replaced the output filter in one of those and got it working again
10:52 PM pfred1: cap was obviously shot was all domed
10:52 PM unterhaus_: I have done that on motherboards
10:52 PM unterhaus_: never on something like a wall wart
10:52 PM pfred1: yup happens all over the place
10:52 PM pfred1: CapXcon caps are garbage
10:52 PM unterhaus_: we fixed a motherboard so we could continue to use some proprietary software
10:53 PM pfred1: recapping a whole motherboard can be costly though
10:53 PM pfred1: as I guess you know if you bought a kit
10:53 PM unterhaus_: I usually buy caps
10:53 PM pfred1: yeah they cost then too
10:53 PM pfred1: depends how many you need
10:54 PM unterhaus_: I have never recapped anything for myself
10:54 PM unterhaus_: well, maybe a monitor
10:54 PM pfred1: I like the Japanese caps if I'm going to go throug hthe trouble
10:54 PM pfred1: Rubycon Nichicon of Chemicons
10:54 PM pfred1: they're all great caps
10:54 PM pfred1: if they're legit
10:55 PM pfred1: there's counterfeit ones floating around today
10:55 PM pfred1: the Chinese have destroyed the electronics industry
10:55 PM pfred1: they counterfeit everything
10:59 PM unterhaus_: i'm impressed they have working avr clones
11:13 PM pfred1: I'm impressed we let them do it
11:14 PM pfred1: they invented the transistor a couple of miles from where I grew up
11:15 PM pfred1: two of the guys lived in my home town
11:15 PM pfred1: the two Bs
11:15 PM pfred1: Shockley lived in the City I think?
11:16 PM pfred1: a lot of people that worked at the Labs lived in my home town
11:18 PM pfred1: today they're lucky if they can pay the light bill at the Labs
11:20 PM unterhaus_: what kind of computer were you trying to build in 1976?
11:23 PM unterhaus_: I have a belkin universal av adapter because it was cheap. has an admin login, but the username isn't admin
11:24 PM unterhaus_: admin blank doesn't work, root root doesn't work, root god doesn't work
11:25 PM unterhaus_: surprised nobody has put the answer on the web
11:25 PM XXCoder: theres usually default list online
11:25 PM XXCoder: (which is why you never use defaults)
11:25 PM unterhaus_: default for belkin is admin blank
11:25 PM XXCoder: wow really? maybe have to call it in
11:25 PM unterhaus_: I can reconfigure by resetting the thing
11:26 PM unterhaus_: but since it has a login, I wanted to see if I could turn off dhcp
11:26 PM unterhaus_: and use it as an access point
11:26 PM unterhaus_: guess I'm going to have to dig something out of the pile of old routers
11:33 PM pfred1: unterhaus_ I didn't start in 1976
11:34 PM XXCoder: yeah pf FINISHED in 1976 ;)
11:34 PM pfred1: I started in 77
11:34 PM unterhaus_: if you remember the '70s, you weren't there
11:35 PM unterhaus_: what kind of computer did you start in '77?
11:35 PM XXCoder: i was there in 70s :P
11:35 PM pfred1: I was 13 in 77
11:35 PM pfred1: so a bit young to start forgetting anything
11:36 PM pfred1: I think i was 15 before I got into any of that
11:36 PM unterhaus_: z80?
11:36 PM pfred1: yes
11:37 PM pfred1: someplace i have a picture of the remains of that project
11:37 PM pfred1: I never took a picture of it all at once
11:37 PM pfred1: but I still had a lot of it on breadboard
11:37 PM unterhaus_: I bought a suprplus z80 and programmed to to switch music effects
11:38 PM pfred1: http://i.imgur.com/yuJeZC3.jpg
11:38 PM pfred1: the top is an EEPROM programmer
11:38 PM unterhaus_: nice
11:39 PM pfred1: I could never get an EPROM programmer to work by hand
11:39 PM sensille: oh, those breadboards must have cost a fortune
11:39 PM pfred1: switching through it all with binary switches multiple times wasn't in the cards for me
11:40 PM pfred1: sensille some are the nice 3M ones most are cheap ones I bought off Jameco
11:40 PM unterhaus_: I remember the guys down at the art supply store programmed a game into their computer with switches
11:41 PM pfred1: what was that other really good brand?
11:41 PM pfred1: gold plated contacts
11:41 PM pfred1: and they did cost a fortune back in the day
11:41 PM unterhaus_: my microcontroller class got me away from breadboards
11:42 PM pfred1: I still love breadboarding
11:42 PM unterhaus_: maybe perfboard was more expensive?
11:42 PM pfred1: though with the parasitics it has issues
11:42 PM sensille: i only used veroboard
11:42 PM pfred1: it was my version of simcity
11:42 PM unterhaus_: veroboard is a type of perfboard?
11:43 PM sensille: they type with strips
11:43 PM pfred1: yeah with clad pattern on it
11:43 PM unterhaus_: that's nicer to deal with
11:43 PM unterhaus_: I was thinking about dead bugging a circuit, might still do it
11:43 PM pfred1: if I was going to do point to point I just soldered wires
11:44 PM unterhaus_: I built a servo amp power circuit with perfboard
11:44 PM pfred1: this isn't too bad http://i.imgur.com/tEf7u88.jpg
11:44 PM unterhaus_: got some papers out of that
11:45 PM unterhaus_: had to hide it in a box because it embarrassed my boss
11:45 PM unterhaus_: I wasn't going to do a circuit board
11:46 PM sensille: my breadboards look more like this :D https://i.imgur.com/to9F21D.jpg
11:46 PM unterhaus_: if I had to do it again now, I probably would because of kicad
11:46 PM pfred1: I just set kicad up
11:47 PM pfred1: the lead dev of that project must be a foot fetishist
11:47 PM unterhaus_: sensille, that's one way to do it
11:47 PM pfred1: the footprint file extension is .pretty
11:47 PM pfred1: makes ya wonder
11:47 PM unterhaus_: there were some guys in my microcontroller that built a full 8080 micro controller on breadboard
11:48 PM sensille: kicad is nice, but it really needs some getting used to. when you start using it you fell like thrown back 20 years with those UI concepts
11:48 PM unterhaus_: that's how I learned how to debug a breadboard
11:48 PM unterhaus_: all cad is a pain to learn
11:48 PM pfred1: sensille its your typical open source project with no management
11:48 PM unterhaus_: eagle drove me nuts
11:48 PM pfred1: I liked Eagle
11:49 PM unterhaus_: once I learned it, it was fine
11:49 PM sensille: eagle 2 :)
11:49 PM pfred1: though it's library configuration utility did suck
11:49 PM pfred1: creation whatever you want to call it
11:49 PM pfred1: Autodesk owns cadsoft now
11:50 PM pfred1: they're kinda douches
11:52 PM pfred1: they've sucked the wind out of open source modeling with fusion 360 too
11:52 PM pfred1: which was their intent from the outset
11:53 PM sensille: yeah i really need to find a replacement for that
11:53 PM pfred1: freecad
11:53 PM sensille: and for CAM?
11:53 PM pfred1: I think it has a module?
11:53 PM pfred1: been a while since I've used it
11:54 PM pfred1: it has no real support for US Customary
11:54 PM pfred1: it just looks like it does
11:54 PM pfred1: until you go to export a model
11:54 PM sensille: it has a module "path workbench"
11:54 PM pfred1: then it screws the scaling all up
11:56 PM pfred1: I think the last version I ran was 0.17 or 18
11:57 PM pfred1: was a while ago
11:57 PM pfred1: development on that project is glacial though
11:57 PM sensille: f360 isn't even that good. the solver takes ages even with a very moderate number of constraints
11:57 PM pfred1: it's over 10 years old and it's no where near 1
11:58 PM pfred1: I forget the CAm software i used but it is painfully slow
11:58 PM pfred1: I'd have to look at my notes
11:58 PM pfred1: was on my core 2
11:59 PM pfred1: it took hours to do a job
11:59 PM pfred1: was a big reason why i built this PC