#linuxcnc Logs

Nov 26 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:10 AM Deejay: moin
02:00 AM Loetmichel: mornin
02:00 AM Loetmichel: hehe, can confirm: rev limiter of the convertible still works... have to get a new exhaust though. MAN does that BMW get LOUD when you redline it... :)
04:53 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:06 AM Tom_L: morning
06:06 AM JT-Cave: YO
06:06 AM XXCoder: LO
06:07 AM JT-Cave: typing g code forgot the caps lock was on lol
06:08 AM Tom_L: happy thanksgiving
06:08 AM JT-Cave: happy thanksgiving
06:08 AM JT-Cave: what's cooking today?
06:08 AM XXCoder: happy thankgiving
06:10 AM Tom_L: put a roast in the pot at 12. something different for a change
06:11 AM JT-Cave: I'm cooking a turkey breast or two, I've not looked in the package yet
06:11 AM JT-Cave: making fresh cranberry sauce
06:42 AM veegee: I did the stupidest thing ever
06:43 AM veegee: I boiled the electrolyte of a dead lead acid battery in an erlenmeyer flask on a hot plate
06:43 AM veegee: and went to bed
06:43 AM veegee: woke up and got out of the room and immediately started coughing
06:44 AM veegee: the room I was sleeping in had positive pressure through the furnace hepa filter so I guess that's why I didn't notice it until I left the bedroom
06:45 AM veegee: found a highly concentrated sulfuric acid left in the erlenmeyer flask emitting acid gas
06:45 AM veegee: fuck
06:45 AM veegee: at least the window was open
06:46 AM veegee: and I put on a P100 respirator with a 6003 organic vapour/acid gas cartridge within a few minutes
06:47 AM veegee: hopefully no serious lung damage
06:57 AM veegee: no coughing now with the respirator on so I _think_ I'm ok
06:59 AM veegee: and no coughing with the respirator off now after venting the room with an air mover
07:02 AM TekniQue: veegee: why would you do that?
07:02 AM veegee: you guys should know by now that I do really stupid things all the time
07:03 AM veegee: but really this time I was extracting the lead from the battery so I can replace a bad cell in my forklift with a new one I got and use the extracted lead to weld the battery terminals
07:03 AM veegee: the sulphuric acid was more an experiment that I forgot to turn off after I took my sleep medication
07:04 AM veegee: on the bright side I now have highly concentrated sulphuric acid, or maybe just its decomposed component sulphur trioxide :(
07:05 AM veegee: But I'm more worried about my poor cat
07:05 AM veegee: I left the door in my room open at least so she could sleep next to me and at least have the benefit of the positive pressure from the furnace vent
07:06 AM veegee: I think the air in there was pretty safe, I didn't notice anything until I walked out of the bedroom
07:06 AM veegee: no skin/eye irritation so hoping the concentration of the vapour in the poisoned room wasn't _too_ high
07:07 AM veegee: thank dog I don't feel any lingering effects and my cat seems fine
08:54 AM Deejay: re
12:36 PM CaptHindsight: Gobble Gobble
12:37 PM CaptHindsight: looks like RTAI is fixed, testers needed if you know how to build
12:38 PM CaptHindsight: RTAI is finally working perfect with the 4.19.152 kernel, IPIPE release 15. For the first time latency on AMD Ryzen is staying below 10 microseconds and the load/unload crash test bug is fixed for good.
12:40 PM gloops: in laymens terms?
12:43 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, been a while
12:44 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, buster 2.8 with rtai?
12:44 PM Tom_L: where's the rtai repo?
12:44 PM satiowadahc: I tend to find the lastest kernel with a rt patch and try to run it and then work backwords until one works. Is RTAI any better then preempt?
12:44 PM Eric__: how many people are discovering that they should have started thawing their turkey on monday
12:45 PM Tom_L: satiowadahc, on older hardware it seems
12:45 PM Tom_L: Eric__, just shove it in a vat of hot oil. it'll be fine :D
12:45 PM Eric__: rtai is always better, but not necessarily needed
12:46 PM Eric__: is hot oil plus frozen turkey how the explosions happen?
12:46 PM Tom_L: most assuredly
12:46 PM Eric__: apparently you need rtpreempt for mesa ethernet cards
12:46 PM Tom_L: yes
12:46 PM Tom_L: that is true
12:47 PM satiowadahc: Welp. running mesa and a fairly new machine.. guess I'll stick on preempt
12:47 PM satiowadahc: I mean explosions still have cooking potential no?
12:48 PM Eric__: satioadahc, is it an ethernet card?
12:48 PM satiowadahc: yep
12:48 PM Eric__: in general, don't need a rtai kernel for any mesa though
12:49 PM Tom_L: unless you get horrible latency on an old MB
12:49 PM Tom_L: then RTAI may do you some good
12:49 PM satiowadahc: when compiling lcnc repeatedly, preempt > userspace
12:49 PM Eric__: rtai was definitely better with my dells, but they are good enough
12:50 PM Tom_L: it might enable me to run buster on my D525
12:50 PM Eric__: I thought preempt was userspace
12:50 PM Tom_L: right now i'm running wheezy on it
12:50 PM Tom_L: Eric__, i think it is but wasn't sure enough to say
12:51 PM Tom_L: and that's why mesa needs it
12:51 PM Tom_L: ethernet anyway
12:51 PM CaptHindsight: Eric__: if you crush the frozen turkey flat it will cook faster
12:51 PM Tom_L: the rest not so much
12:51 PM satiowadahc: I may be the mistaken one... cuz I can compile userspace without preempt
12:51 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, don't tell veggie he might actually try it
12:52 PM Eric__: my turkey was never frozen
12:52 PM Eric__: going in the instant pot one way or another
12:53 PM CaptHindsight: made turkey last night so i could relax and work today
12:53 PM satiowadahc: We were talking about it today american thanks giving is so close to xmas... two turkey dinners that close seems more like a marathon. gotta space that out a bit
12:53 PM CaptHindsight: Turkey is not required for xmas
12:54 PM CaptHindsight: there is just societal pressure for turkey on Thanksgiving
12:54 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, where can the fixed RTAI be found?
12:54 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: you have to build it for now
12:54 PM roycroft: hello, folks
12:54 PM Tom_L: where is the source?
12:55 PM roycroft: happy thanksgiving to those in the usa
12:55 PM Tom_L: i just don't wanna get the wrong one
12:55 PM CaptHindsight: it's just at his git repo right now https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI
12:55 PM veegee: Yeah fuck everyone not in the USA am I right? Have yourself a miserable day
12:55 PM veegee: (just kidding)
12:55 PM Tom_L: veegee, the fumes gettin to ya?
12:55 PM roycroft: you already your thanksgiving
12:55 PM veegee: quite possibly
12:56 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: that was the presidential address earlier today :)
12:56 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, thanks
12:56 PM roycroft: you get to have it a month and a half before we do
12:56 PM veegee: Now I can play with concentrated sulphuric acid
12:56 PM veegee: mixing with cold water makes it instantly boiling hot :)
12:56 PM satiowadahc: with halloween for dessert, vs an appetizer
12:57 PM roycroft: you add the acid to the water, don't you?
12:57 PM roycroft: and not the other way around
12:57 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: any idea why Canadians in Quebec ask for Fedex vs UPS from the USA?
12:58 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: is UPS that bad there?
12:58 PM veegee: Not just Quebec
12:58 PM veegee: I hate UPS
12:58 PM CaptHindsight: ah ok
12:58 PM Tom_L: only amd64 cpu?
12:58 PM veegee: Fedex is much more reliable and their pickup depots are very conveniently located
12:58 PM roycroft: ultimate package smasher?
12:58 PM veegee: there's only one UPS pickup depot for the entire Toronto area
12:58 PM veegee: and they're REALLY slow
12:58 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: should work on intel, it's an old comment
12:58 PM roycroft: not as slow as canada post
12:59 PM veegee: canada post is even worse
12:59 PM satiowadahc: UPS up here also seems to cost way more once youve already paid
12:59 PM Tom_L: that's what i figured
12:59 PM veegee: canada post/purilator straight up lie about tracking
12:59 PM veegee: I have cameras and they lie about "delivery attempted", etc.
12:59 PM satiowadahc: like oh suprise brokerage fees, custom fees, handling fees
12:59 PM veegee: I want to launch a lawsuit but no idea where to begin
01:00 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: how about Fedex there?
01:00 PM veegee: canada post doesn't deliver packages most of the time. They just lie and put a "we missed you" sticker on your door, without even knocking
01:00 PM veegee: Fedex never failed me once
01:00 PM veegee: DHL is also quite reliable. Fewer pickup locations, but they're easy to work with and reschedule delivery
01:01 PM satiowadahc: Not enough companies offer DHL shipping
01:01 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: how about truck freight from the US?
01:02 PM veegee: Not sure about that, I'd say fedex as well
01:02 PM CaptHindsight: DHL has very poor service in the USA since they went bankrupt a few years ago
01:02 PM veegee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMYQlbp1gzY CaptHindsight how are they lifting the cell out?
01:02 PM CaptHindsight: DHL is fair within large cities
01:03 PM veegee: I was going to tap a hole in the post and screw in a bolt to lift it out, but somehow there's something in the vent holt?
01:03 PM veegee: hole*
01:03 PM veegee: I only see acid in the vent hole, no lifting provisions
01:03 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, did he run andy's test on that RTAI? i may still have it here somewhere
01:03 PM Tom_L: load unload...
01:04 PM veegee: Oh are they just lifting it out with a hook against the casing?
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: load/unload is fine now
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: your last guess
01:04 PM veegee: cool works for me, thanks
01:06 PM veegee: Might also try a lag bolt and melting lead around it since I'm going to attempt to recover the bad cell
01:06 PM Tom_L: i shouldn't need to reinstall buster, just build rtai and switch to it right?
01:06 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: yes
01:06 PM Tom_L: may give it a go after ppl leave
01:07 PM veegee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrzU7iKma0s LOL these guys are using vise grips around the terminals
01:07 PM veegee: I guess that works too, it's only a 150 lb cell
01:09 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: they don't believe in elegance
01:09 PM veegee: Yeah no safety gear, no English, shitty video. Ticks all the boxes for third world country industrial work
01:10 PM veegee: I bought an oxy acetylene torch and the biggest oxygen cylinder yesterday
01:10 PM CaptHindsight: keep prices low so you can die sooner
01:10 PM veegee: Going to try breathing pure oxygen to test the effects
01:10 PM veegee: well not in a dumb way
01:10 PM veegee: in a very careful controlled way
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: bag over head with rubber band?
01:11 PM veegee: also bought a huge argon cylinder but that's for TIG welding and humanely euthanizing the kill mouse traps the neighbours put...
01:11 PM veegee: doesn't always kill :(
01:12 PM veegee: and carbon dioxide induces insane stress response, can't believe they still use that in labs
01:12 PM veegee: argon lets them die peacefully at least
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: I don't use them much but I have a few size T 330 cu ft O2 bottles
01:15 PM _unreal_: just finished designing my coupler nut to mount my Z threaded rod
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: and I cut with propane
01:16 PM _unreal_: more I think about it I'm wondering if I really want to use the fidget spinner design I've made
01:16 PM _unreal_: or do I want to do something else?
01:16 PM _unreal_: more decrative then anything
01:17 PM _unreal_: I have a massive ball bearing timing belt pully adapter
01:17 PM _unreal_: 60 teeth
01:18 PM _unreal_: wondering if I'm going to be dealing with wear issues on the HDPE nut?
01:45 PM * t4nk_freenode slaps _unreal_'s massively bearing balls
01:45 PM t4nk_freenode: when will that darned machine of yours finally be done man?
02:10 PM gloops: lol!
02:13 PM gloops: rigid static machines must be coming to the end of their times now
02:13 PM gloops: what happened to all those mobile like spider-routers
02:24 PM Eric__: I can't say anything about unreal's progress because I have him beat by a decade
02:24 PM Eric__: at least
02:25 PM t4nk_freenode: I've been 'working on some switches for several weeks now' myself
02:25 PM _unreal_: soon
02:25 PM _unreal_: next week My big bad Z mount will be milled
02:26 PM t4nk_freenode: why next week?
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: WTF!? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL530kJUmII Creating a DIY CNC controller with Linux CNC using a Raspberry Pi.
02:26 PM _unreal_: BECAUSE its a holiday this week
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: says there is too little info about mesa FPGA for the Rpi's
02:26 PM _unreal_: and my friend who has the big tools is not able to do anything till next week
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: builds his own GPIO hardware
02:27 PM t4nk_freenode: so it's true you only have very tiny tools
02:27 PM t4nk_freenode: I must change my slap then
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: builds a GUI with GTK Glade vs QTPYVCP
02:28 PM t4nk_freenode: hehe ... I need to finish my switches
02:28 PM t4nk_freenode: then I can finish my power supply
02:28 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, waaaaaa
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: uses the vanilla Rpi Linux and builds from there
02:28 PM _unreal_: I'm looking at the pi-lcnc adapter
02:28 PM _unreal_: that would go hand in hand with my tinkerboard
02:29 PM _unreal_: if my POS tinkerboard didnt have the BS power issue
02:29 PM _unreal_: I gave up on using it because its not reliable
02:29 PM _unreal_: wont turn on
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: uses software stepping on the Rpi4 from the GPIO
02:51 PM _unreal_: I have hardware stepper controllers regardless
02:51 PM _unreal_: one thing is for sure
02:51 PM _unreal_: unless its the computer I'm using right now
02:51 PM _unreal_: for testing etc....
02:51 PM _unreal_: that mach3 USB controller is POS
02:52 PM _unreal_: the planetcnc usb controllers are 10x better
02:53 PM _unreal_: oh well
02:53 PM _unreal_: I'm bringing my machine into work next week
02:56 PM _unreal_: I need to post a photo of the adapter I have so you guys know what I'm talking about better. but I'm trying to figure out what the smartest method to add the thrust bearing I ordered is
02:56 PM _unreal_: so I ordered a standard compression ball bearing thrust bearing.
02:56 PM _unreal_: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VWT1LK2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
02:56 PM _unreal_: the main bearing that is in this pully I have is
02:57 PM _unreal_: a standard radial
02:57 PM _unreal_: the OD of the bearing is 62mm
02:57 PM _unreal_: and about 12.7mm deep
02:58 PM _unreal_: I dont really want to put side load on the bearing if I dont have to
02:58 PM _unreal_: SO
02:58 PM _unreal_: I'm going to make a pocket for the bearing to sit in sitting on the FACE of the mount that will mount and hold the threaded rod for the Z
02:59 PM _unreal_: the only load that the thrust bearing is going to be exposed to is in one direction "lifting" the Z
02:59 PM _unreal_: the z is heavy as shit
02:59 PM _unreal_: the pulling the z down will be on the main bearing
03:00 PM _unreal_: so between the two of them it is not likely to have aggressive side loading on the primary bearing
03:08 PM JT-Shop: well I have no clue how this cutting board will look when done but step one is gluing up
03:10 PM rs[m]: unreal: surely you have some sort of linear rails for you Z axis, that should take all "side loading"
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: linear rails are for the weak!
03:26 PM * t4nk_freenode takes out his files
03:37 PM * t4nk_freenode takes out his files
03:37 PM t4nk_freenode: *sigh*
03:59 PM * t4nk_freenode starts crying, but seriously considers taking his files out
04:02 PM t4nk_freenode: ok... enough is enough... ; /me takes his files out.
04:02 PM rs[m]: duck and cover
04:03 PM t4nk_freenode: mmm got all these lights in the house.. yet I can't see a thing :|
04:50 PM t4nk_freenode: I just hit an all time low.. by FIling my hands!
04:50 PM t4nk_freenode: I still think I like filing though ;) things have a way better chance of fitting after you file them
05:08 PM _unreal_: rs[m], I dont think you follow what I mean :)
05:08 PM _unreal_: yes it has liner rails
05:09 PM _unreal_: rs[m], what I mean is putting force to the SIDE of a bearing like this
05:09 PM _unreal_: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UhMz44y_EwY/maxresdefault.jpg
05:10 PM _unreal_: meaning the outside race is fixed. and something is pushing the inner race like your trying to push it out in the same fasion as pushing a rod though the center only drawing the center race along with the rod as it passes though
05:10 PM _unreal_: side loading
05:10 PM _unreal_: now I have a large bearing maybe not THAT big but it is big
05:10 PM _unreal_: I dont know what kind of side loading it will take
05:12 PM t4nk_freenode: just test it
05:12 PM _unreal_: regardless... the Z will be about 20 lbs easy. so gravity will be pushing down which will put pressure on the thrust bearing. and all of the lifting motions will put force again ON the thrust bearing. i DOUBT HIGHLY that the z wil see much in the oposing direction for force except for when doing drilling cycles
05:14 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R62KNB55LwPLZZ5LN-c2JGl1ZsW_UvWP/view?usp=sharing
05:14 PM _unreal_: that is the part
05:15 PM t4nk_freenode: not loading here, again, .. why do you keep messing with that google cr*p
05:16 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R9M8PsXtScwVvwy2GmmWj3jaLoEGPFgH/view?usp=sharing
05:16 PM _unreal_: because its easy
05:17 PM t4nk_freenode: I don't see how you can say that.. just pasting another of the same.. will not make it load ;)
05:18 PM _unreal_: THAT IS two different images
05:18 PM t4nk_freenode: neither of them will load though.
05:18 PM _unreal_: can you view this
05:18 PM _unreal_: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPp1f0dUHlqqTwZCQ32JntR_n59omq5yjLi0sI1AFxK8ghJ-Fgv4MRm1h6_kwMyBw?key=b196bk50Mk9GMFd4ZFBSY0RkclVCVW9QYm0tbWFB
05:19 PM t4nk_freenode: I see something, some text explaining your expertise
05:20 PM t4nk_freenode: and about a trillion of requests for things my security settings don't like
05:22 PM _unreal_: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOuh8VxQ5itvJv5l9EtHYq4OX40qYBZx0QKDLgp
05:22 PM _unreal_: then te issue is on your side
05:22 PM _unreal_: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipO-iMmyyHt4R-4xylswLSJgcUfEv9N9nxVo_ziC
05:24 PM _unreal_: ?
05:25 PM t4nk_freenode: I'm not gonna log into anything!
05:26 PM t4nk_freenode: 'easy' enough.
05:41 PM _unreal_: no view for you
05:42 PM t4nk_freenode: and none for you
05:42 PM * t4nk_freenode takes his files out again
05:42 PM _unreal_: I'm looking at it right now
05:43 PM t4nk_freenode: 'good on you, you son of my beach'
05:45 PM rs[m]: unreal: i have no idea what you are talking about.
05:50 PM _unreal_: rs[m], ahh I'm putting two bearing types together to protect the large bearing from side loading the bearing races
05:50 PM _unreal_: as pictured in my images
05:50 PM _unreal_: in the amazon link I'm going to put the trhust bearing at the end
05:51 PM _unreal_: that will take the load of holding and lifting the z axiss
05:51 PM _unreal_: the axis is going to be around 20 lbs dead weigh
05:51 PM _unreal_: I'm now worried about the downward force. it has gravity in its favor
05:53 PM _unreal_: what I am getting at is I'm torn between milling the aluminum adapter that I'm building to be milled down so that it sits on the metal directly. OR if I should add a poly washer or a thin rubber washer?
05:53 PM _unreal_: for when I snug everthing up
05:53 PM _unreal_: I dont want to end up force side loading the races on the main bearing with screws joining the timing pully and the adapter plate that will attach to the threaded rod
05:54 PM rs[m]: the photos link don't work, the drive links do work, but it is completely unclear what "part" that is.
05:55 PM rs[m]: and what do you mean by "threaded rod". an acme thread spindle?
05:57 PM rs[m]: whatever. good night and good luck.
05:57 PM t4nk_freenode: I bet it's that POS Google, came DOA :b
06:02 PM _unreal_: hum
06:31 PM unterhaus: well, I made turkey and it actually was edible
06:31 PM _unreal_: SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sb_zuHGmY4
06:31 PM _unreal_: god I want a 3d printer
06:34 PM t4nk_freenode: are you shure that's what you need to ask the wizard the most, scarecrow :)))
06:35 PM t4nk_freenode: okokokok I'll stop ;)
06:45 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
06:51 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, do i pull the linux-4.19.152 image from kernel.org or just the git from your link?
06:51 PM Tom_L: ie do i need to run patches?
06:58 PM Tom_L: nm i think i figured it out
07:00 PM unterhaus: you have to patch, right?
07:01 PM Tom_L: it's in the readme but yes
07:01 PM unterhaus: I might end up trying to sell my pci board anyway, so rtai not for me
07:15 PM Tom_dev: make[1]: *** No rule to make target '../../certs/debian-uefi-certs.pem', needed by 'certs/x509_certificate_list'. Stop.
07:19 PM Tom_L: i forget where .config is....
07:26 PM * infornography gives everyone jalapeno poppers
07:32 PM Tom_L: gotta remember to edit that line in .config
08:00 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, you know of any edits in menuconfig?
08:02 PM Tom_L: i didn't have any specific notes on that for my system so going with defaults
08:21 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: help on the way
08:21 PM CaptHindsight: stay tuned
08:21 PM memfrob: Hi Tom_L, did you figure out the certificate build problem? .pem X509 etc etc
08:21 PM CaptHindsight: cavalry is here
08:22 PM Tom_L: yeah i had a note on that on my previous attempt
08:22 PM Tom_L: i left the menuconfig stock
08:22 PM Tom_L: building after i got past a couple permission issues
08:22 PM memfrob: When you build the kernel the debian way using the debian kernel config, the Kconfig patch (0003*.patch) will do it's thing when you run make olddefconfig
08:23 PM Tom_L: did that
08:23 PM memfrob: it will make an inital ramdisk and then it will be able to find your hard drive using that (so you don't need to fiddle with the kernel SCSI/ATA stack)
08:24 PM memfrob: I just heard andypugh had a kernel crash with the new patch :/
08:24 PM Tom_L: woops
08:24 PM memfrob: Yeah, for the first time since 3.16.52 with the RTAI code from several years ago it's working here though..
08:25 PM memfrob: So what step are you on now?
08:25 PM Tom_L: i got his load unload test here from last time i can run once it's done
08:25 PM Tom_L: (may not be tonight)
08:26 PM Tom_L: make bzImange && make modules i think
08:26 PM memfrob: The kernel is compiling right now? You called make bzImage directly or did you use make-kpkg ?
08:26 PM Tom_L: it was unable to make some temp folders at first so i started over
08:27 PM Tom_L: i called it just like your install shows
08:27 PM memfrob: The debian way of building the .debs is how you'd build the kernel if you don't edit make menuconfig
08:27 PM memfrob: Ah, you won't have an initrd then and it won't find your drive at boot
08:27 PM Tom_L: mmm
08:27 PM Tom_L: i have 2 sets of notes
08:28 PM Tom_L: one is the deb way
08:28 PM Tom_L: after the patches, do oledefconfig then make dep-pkg?
08:28 PM memfrob: make -j`nproc` bindeb-pkg -- yes
08:29 PM Tom_L: how many 'j's ? :)
08:29 PM Tom_L: 3?
08:29 PM Tom_L: that's for compiling right?
08:30 PM memfrob: Apparently debian counts for you!
08:30 PM memfrob: https://wiki.debian.org/BuildADebianKernelPackage -> Use make bindeb-pkg target to build the kernel. the -j`nproc` argument sets the build to use as many cpu's as you have.
08:30 PM memfrob: Yes for the compiling part
08:31 PM Tom_L: right
08:31 PM Tom_L: what step messes with initrd?
08:31 PM Tom_L: maybe i should start over
08:31 PM memfrob: Debian handles making all of that for you.
08:31 PM memfrob: I would just do a make clean && make -j`nproc` bindeb-pkg
08:31 PM memfrob: it's already patched and the config is done
08:32 PM Tom_L: so once the source is patched you can skip those steps?
08:32 PM Tom_L: unless of course you get new source
08:32 PM memfrob: make clean && make olddefconfig && make -j`nproc` bindeb-pkg
08:33 PM memfrob: it's not really skipping steps, bindeb-pkg handles the bzImage and modules internally instead of calling directly
08:33 PM Tom_L: ok
08:33 PM memfrob: and bindeb-pkg also makes an initrd for you
08:33 PM memfrob: so it does it all, you just don't type it ;)
08:33 PM Tom_L: but after make oldedefconfig i gotta edit that line again
08:34 PM memfrob: which line?
08:34 PM Tom_L: debian-ueif-certs.pem
08:34 PM memfrob: Ah, i wouldn't know about that part
08:35 PM Tom_L: it's not in that .config now
08:35 PM memfrob: Oh I see!
08:35 PM Tom_L: i wonder if i just made a mess of things
08:36 PM memfrob: what makes you say that?
08:36 PM Tom_L: oh nevermind i think it' sol
08:36 PM Tom_L: ok
08:37 PM memfrob: shit out of luck or ok? :)
08:37 PM Tom_L: i think i'm ok
08:37 PM memfrob: you said sol :P
08:37 PM Tom_L: typo
08:37 PM Tom_L: heh
08:37 PM memfrob: i know, i was making a joke
08:37 PM memfrob: :)
08:38 PM Tom_L: could go either way truthfully
08:40 PM Tom_L: ok on the road again
08:41 PM Tom_L: do i need make deb-pkg after mindeb-pkg?
08:41 PM Tom_L: or just dpkg -i xxxxx
08:41 PM memfrob: just dpkg -i, I think the whole deb-pkg/bindep-pkg is all the same thing
08:41 PM memfrob: It used to be make-kpkg
08:41 PM Tom_L: gotcha
08:42 PM memfrob: If bindep-pkg is a problem I would try deb-pkg though instead
08:42 PM memfrob: no need for anymore olddefconfig
08:42 PM Tom_L: what's the difference?
08:42 PM Tom_L: so far it's running
08:43 PM memfrob: I have no idea :)
08:44 PM Tom_L: i don't do this enough to remembe how. good i keep notes
08:44 PM Tom_L: can't type worth a crap either :)
08:46 PM Tom_L: should the kernel be built on the system it's going to run under or does that matter?
08:46 PM Tom_L: i was gonna pull the ssd and put it in the mill pc when it's done
08:48 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, what are you thoughts on the question I asked earlier ?
08:49 PM _unreal_: posted photos as well
08:49 PM _unreal_: to sum it up.
08:49 PM _unreal_: going to add a thrust bearing to the big bearing so it can take the resting and lifting load of the heavy Z
08:49 PM _unreal_: wondering if I should do the best I can at getting my depths right?
08:50 PM _unreal_: and have metal on metal? or if I should add a spacer using ether poly or rubber?
08:50 PM _unreal_: I just dont want to side load the the main bearing
08:50 PM Tom_L: missed it entirely
08:50 PM _unreal_: when I screw the adapter plate that captures/holds the threaded rod
08:50 PM _unreal_: above I have links posted
08:50 PM _unreal_: including the thrust bearing
08:51 PM _unreal_: starting at the 3:55pm time stamp
08:52 PM Tom_L: don't wanna log in google now just to see
08:54 PM Tom_L: some bearings are made for axial load
08:55 PM memfrob: Tom_L, I think it doesn't matter.
08:56 PM memfrob: debian wiki page using bindep-pkg doesn't matter target or host
08:57 PM memfrob: ^says
09:00 PM Tom_L: memfrob, we'll see here soon
09:00 PM Tom_L: well maybe not tonight
09:00 PM jymmmm: gobble gobble
09:00 PM Tom_L: looks like they built at least
09:01 PM memfrob: woo!
09:01 PM memfrob: what system do you have?
09:01 PM Tom_L: memfrob, do i want to install all the debs?
09:01 PM memfrob: you don't need any of the dbg ones
09:01 PM Tom_L: the target is a D525 but i'm building on an i5
09:03 PM Tom_L: i've got linux-headers-4.19.152xxxx linux-libc-dev_4.19.152xxx and linux-image-4.19.152
09:03 PM Tom_L: i assume i need all of those
09:03 PM memfrob: yessir
09:07 PM Tom_L: hmm does that update grub too?
09:07 PM Tom_L: looks like it might
09:07 PM Tom_L: i don't remember that
09:07 PM memfrob: i believe it does
09:07 PM Tom_L: maybe that's the difference?
09:07 PM Tom_L: i don't recall that before
09:08 PM memfrob: can you check /boot for an initrd rtai file?
09:08 PM Tom_L: initrd.img=4.19.153
09:09 PM memfrob: nice!
09:09 PM Tom_L: initrd.img-4.19.152
09:09 PM Tom_L: even
09:09 PM Tom_L: so it appears it did
09:09 PM memfrob: so when you reboot and select the 4.19.152 kernel it should boot and find everything
09:09 PM Tom_L: after i select it the first time does that become the default?
09:10 PM memfrob: no the default is 0 which means the top one
09:10 PM memfrob: debian always has theirs first in grub.cfg
09:10 PM Tom_L: booting hopefully...
09:11 PM Tom_dev: Linux buster 4.19.152 #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Nov 26 19:59:30 CST 2020 x86_64 GNU/Linux
09:11 PM memfrob: that was quick!
09:11 PM Tom_L: i don't mess around :)
09:12 PM Tom_L: latency is thru the roof
09:12 PM memfrob: through linuxcnc?
09:13 PM Tom_L: yes
09:13 PM memfrob: that's because linuxcnc isn't using your new rtai kernel
09:13 PM Tom_L: i don't need to recompile lcnc do i?
09:13 PM memfrob: but there is a test without rebuilding linuxcnc that causes the crash
09:14 PM Tom_L: so i _do_ need to recompile linuxcnc under RTAI?
09:14 PM memfrob: to use their latency test yes
09:14 PM memfrob: but the crash can also happen by loading and unloading rtai_hal and rtai_sched
09:14 PM memfrob: which is where the real problem is
09:15 PM Tom_dev: ok running andy's test i get:
09:15 PM Tom_dev: starting pass 188
09:15 PM Tom_dev: Note: Using POSIX non-realtime
09:15 PM Tom_dev: Note: Using POSIX non-realtime
09:15 PM Tom_dev: is that normal?
09:15 PM memfrob: that's a linuxcnc test
09:15 PM Tom_dev: yeah that's right
09:15 PM memfrob: which is normal for now
09:16 PM Tom_dev: i forgot
09:16 PM unterhaus: that doesn't look like an rtai uname
09:16 PM memfrob: is this just a test system?
09:16 PM memfrob: it isn't an rtai uname but it's an rtai kernel
09:16 PM Tom_dev: what's this other test?
09:16 PM Tom_dev: yes it's a test system
09:16 PM memfrob: ok so to do the other test you need to install my RTAI over the RTAI on there now
09:17 PM Tom_dev: i thought that's what i just did
09:17 PM Tom_dev: with your patches
09:17 PM memfrob: actually linuxcnc installs rtai to /usr/realtime-4-blah-blah
09:17 PM memfrob: thats the kernel, the modules linuxcnc is trying to load won't work on that kernel
09:18 PM memfrob: you have new rtai kernel, old rtai modules and linuxcnc is built against old rtai modules
09:18 PM Tom_dev: gotcha
09:18 PM unterhaus: make a run in place
09:18 PM memfrob: if it's a test system you can actually do this in under a minute
09:18 PM memfrob: no debs
09:18 PM Tom_dev: maybe you can :)
09:18 PM memfrob: run in place will only work once you have new rtai modules
09:19 PM memfrob: cd into the RTAI tree, run ./autogen.sh && make && sudo make install
09:19 PM Tom_dev: all i need to do to fix it after the test is rebuild linuxcnc right?
09:19 PM memfrob: then you should have a /usr/realtime directory
09:19 PM Tom_dev: i already have a /usr/realtime dir
09:19 PM memfrob: just realtime or realtime-blah-blah-blah ?
09:20 PM Tom_dev: just realtime but there are subdirs
09:20 PM memfrob: or both..?
09:20 PM Tom_dev: just /usr/realtime
09:20 PM memfrob: ok
09:20 PM memfrob: then new RTAI will replace that dir
09:21 PM memfrob: linuxcnc still won't work but you can run the other crash test
09:21 PM Tom_dev: wouldn't it be just as easy to build linuxcnc?
09:21 PM memfrob: no this step is required firs
09:21 PM Tom_dev: figures
09:22 PM memfrob: if you want to rebuild linuxcnc that's fine but you need the new rtai modules installed to /usr/realtime
09:22 PM Tom_dev: ok i'm game
09:22 PM memfrob: then everything will match
09:22 PM memfrob: you don't need linuxcnc for the test though
09:22 PM memfrob: the crashy one
09:23 PM * Tom_dev wipes pumkin pie off his face
09:23 PM Tom_dev: what next?
09:23 PM memfrob: heh!
09:24 PM memfrob: you ran the autogen / install line?
09:24 PM Tom_dev: no not yet
09:24 PM Tom_dev: from what dir?
09:24 PM memfrob: the root of the RTAI tree with the 4.19.152 patches in it
09:25 PM memfrob: I made bacon wrapped turkey legs for thanksgiving btw, how was your dinner?
09:25 PM Tom_dev: we had a roast for a change
09:25 PM Tom_dev: cooked all night
09:25 PM memfrob: yum!
09:25 PM Tom_dev: not much left
09:25 PM Tom_dev: :)
09:26 PM Tom_dev: ok can i do this from the simlink dir?
09:26 PM memfrob: i don't know what symlink you're talking about
09:27 PM Tom_dev: links to linux-4.19.152 dir
09:27 PM memfrob: you don't want to be in the kernel source
09:27 PM Tom_dev: ok where should i be then?
09:27 PM memfrob: the root of the RTAI source tree itself
09:28 PM Tom_dev: not sure i follow
09:28 PM memfrob: where you git cloned my RTAI repo
09:28 PM memfrob: https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI
09:28 PM memfrob: in there
09:28 PM Tom_dev: ahh ok
09:29 PM Tom_dev: running
09:29 PM Tom_dev: ok that's done
09:29 PM memfrob: installed?
09:29 PM Tom_dev: ./autogen.sh && make && sudo make install
09:29 PM Tom_dev: i did that
09:29 PM memfrob: yes ok now
09:30 PM Tom_dev: still in RTAI dir
09:30 PM memfrob: make sure real-time is working with: sudo /usr/realtime/testsuite/run
09:30 PM memfrob: latency should be good now
09:30 PM Tom_dev: RTH| lat min| ovl min| lat avg| lat max| ovl max| overruns
09:30 PM Tom_dev: RTD| -444| -444| 10| 8787| 8787| 0
09:30 PM Tom_dev: RTD| -341| -444| 9| 1246| 8787| 0
09:30 PM memfrob: sweet!
09:31 PM memfrob: now for the crash test
09:31 PM memfrob: hit control+C to stop the latency test
09:31 PM Tom_dev: i did already
09:31 PM memfrob: https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI/issues/13#issuecomment-640277640
09:32 PM memfrob: copy and paste andy's comment into a text file
09:32 PM memfrob: then save
09:33 PM Tom_dev: done
09:33 PM memfrob: you're going to want to replace realtime-4.14.174-rtai-amd64 with just realtime
09:35 PM memfrob: after it's just /usr/realtime/modules/rtai_hal.ko and rtai_sched.ko you need to make it an executable
09:35 PM memfrob: so cd into the directory that the script is in
09:35 PM memfrob: chmod a+x the_script_file && ./the_script_file
09:37 PM Tom_dev: starting pass 2317
09:37 PM Tom_dev: ./memfrob_crash_test.sh: line 4: insmod: command not found
09:37 PM Tom_dev: ./memfrob_crash_test.sh: line 5: insmod: command not found
09:37 PM Tom_dev: ./memfrob_crash_test.sh: line 6: rmmod: command not found
09:37 PM Tom_dev: ./memfrob_crash_test.sh: line 7: rmmod: command not found
09:38 PM memfrob: oh!
09:38 PM memfrob: root! sorry!
09:38 PM memfrob: sudo sh memfrob_crash_test.sh
09:39 PM Tom_dev: same result
09:39 PM memfrob: the heck?
09:39 PM Tom_dev: path looks good
09:39 PM memfrob: run "type insmod"
09:39 PM memfrob: you have to have those utilities installed..
09:39 PM Tom_dev: insmod /usr/realtime/modules/rtai_hal.ko
09:40 PM memfrob: what i mean by that is, your system can't work without it
09:40 PM memfrob: so they're somewhere..
09:40 PM memfrob: if you run "type insmod" what happens?
09:41 PM Tom_dev: not found
09:41 PM Tom_dev: :)
09:41 PM memfrob: uhmm..
09:41 PM Rab: Mine's at /sbin/insmod, maybe it's not in your path for some reason.
09:42 PM memfrob: if you run "sudo echo $PATH" what is there?
09:42 PM Tom_dev: it's there... link to shared library
09:42 PM memfrob: maybe /sbin is not in path
09:42 PM Tom_dev: x /home/tom/.local/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games
09:42 PM memfrob: ah
09:43 PM memfrob: ok so! underneath #!/bin/bash in the script, add PATH="${PATH}:/sbin"
09:44 PM memfrob: then it should work and hopefully not crash
09:44 PM Tom_dev: rmmod: ERROR: Module rtai_sched is not currently loaded
09:44 PM Tom_dev: rmmod: ERROR: Module rtai_hal is not currently loaded
09:44 PM Tom_dev: starting pass 617
09:44 PM Tom_dev: insmod: ERROR: could not insert module /usr/realtime/modules/rtai_hal.ko: Operation not permitted
09:44 PM memfrob: you ran the script with sudo?
09:45 PM Tom_dev: yes
09:45 PM memfrob: what happens if you run "sudo insmod /usr/realtime/modules/rtai_hal.ko" in the terminal?
09:45 PM Tom_dev: nevermind
09:45 PM memfrob: it's working now?
09:45 PM Tom_dev: i did the chmod again too :)
09:46 PM Tom_dev: yeah it's working
09:46 PM memfrob: ok finally!
09:46 PM Tom_dev: but
09:46 PM Tom_dev: starting pass 1
09:46 PM Tom_dev: insmod: ERROR: could not insert module /usr/realtime/modules/rtai_hal.ko: File exists
09:46 PM Tom_dev: starting pass 2
09:46 PM Tom_dev: starting pass 3
09:47 PM memfrob: ok so control+c and then sudo rmmod rtai_sched.ko && sudo rmmod rtai_hal.ko
09:47 PM memfrob: and then run the script again, it should work just fine
09:47 PM Tom_dev: ERROR: Module rtai_sched is not currently loaded
09:47 PM memfrob: thats fine
09:48 PM Tom_dev: pass 1
09:48 PM Tom_dev: insmod: ERROR: could not insert module /usr/realtime/modules/rtai_hal.ko: File exists
09:48 PM Tom_dev: starting pass 2
09:48 PM Tom_dev: starting pass 3
09:48 PM memfrob: you have to do it on both
09:48 PM memfrob: the script is not very clean :)
09:48 PM memfrob: sudo rmmod rtai_hal.ko
09:49 PM memfrob: if error, sudo rmmod rtai_sched.ko and then again for rtai_hal.ko
09:49 PM Tom_dev: ok i got it
09:49 PM Tom_dev: pass 50...
09:49 PM memfrob: no crash?
09:49 PM Tom_dev: not yet
09:49 PM Tom_dev: 150
09:49 PM Tom_dev: 200
09:49 PM memfrob: generally would take about 3K, I ran it last night all the way through and no problems
09:50 PM Tom_dev: so now, how do i get a good linuxcnc build from where i'm at right now?
09:51 PM Tom_dev: 500
09:51 PM memfrob: you can try doing a run-in-place
09:51 PM memfrob: would save time making new debs i think
09:51 PM Tom_dev: i'm not worried about time. i eventually want to test this on the mill
09:52 PM memfrob: it crashed andy's system at 111 iterations
09:52 PM Tom_dev: pull the ssd and try it out there
09:52 PM Tom_dev: 800
09:52 PM CaptHindsight: should reach 3K passes in a few minutes
09:52 PM memfrob: so unless you crash in the next hour, it's probably safe :)
09:52 PM Tom_dev: i'll let it run a bit
09:52 PM Tom_dev: 1000
09:53 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_dev: this on your i5 board?
09:53 PM Tom_dev: yes
09:53 PM memfrob: Is linuxcnc just as safe installed vs. run in place in terms of running it on a mill?
09:54 PM Tom_dev: 1300
09:54 PM Tom_dev: no idea
09:55 PM memfrob: if you want to cleanly replace your instance of linuxcnc, you'd need to make new debs and i think that's as easy as just: dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc
09:55 PM memfrob: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/master/html/code/building-linuxcnc.html#_building_debian_packages
09:55 PM Tom_dev: probably
09:55 PM memfrob: but because -rtai wasn't added to the kernel string that may not work
09:56 PM memfrob: (without rebuilding the kernel debs)
09:56 PM Tom_dev: i'll probably pull a recent source anyway
09:56 PM Tom_dev: in case any fixes have been added
09:56 PM memfrob: kernel source or linuxcnc?
09:56 PM Tom_dev: linuxcnc
09:56 PM memfrob: ok good
09:56 PM Tom_dev: the kernel should be good to go right?
09:57 PM memfrob: maybe not for linuxcnc at this moment
09:57 PM memfrob: run-in-place you'd have better luck
09:57 PM Tom_dev: :/
09:57 PM Tom_dev: why?
09:57 PM Tom_dev: i've never done that
09:57 PM memfrob: linuxcnc checks the kernel string
09:57 PM memfrob: it may not work since the kernel version string does not have -rtai in it
09:57 PM Tom_dev: ahh
09:57 PM memfrob: i could be wrong
09:57 PM Tom_dev: shame on you
09:57 PM memfrob: it might just work
09:58 PM memfrob: run-in-place always works though regardless of kernel string
09:58 PM Tom_dev: i'll try it but not tonight
09:58 PM memfrob: you can at least let the test keep going right?
09:58 PM Tom_dev: 2400
09:58 PM Tom_dev: i am
09:58 PM memfrob: ok thank you!
09:58 PM Tom_dev: how long?
09:59 PM Tom_dev: you said 3k should be good ehh?
09:59 PM Tom_dev: and should i run it on the target MB too?
09:59 PM memfrob: andy's longest run was 29493
09:59 PM memfrob: on the known problematic kernel
10:00 PM memfrob: i reached 100,000 but i was only able to reach 3K at best with the old kernel
10:00 PM memfrob: do you remember running the abs test before?
10:00 PM Tom_dev: that was 4.19.114 wasn't it?
10:00 PM memfrob: yes
10:00 PM Tom_dev: no
10:00 PM CaptHindsight: "My machine is locking up and found it to be caused by a bug in the 4.19.1 RT3 kernel."
10:01 PM Tom_dev: wht's abs?
10:01 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/40729-4-19-1-rt3-kernel-bug-bug-scheduling-while-atomic
10:01 PM Tom_dev: 3050
10:01 PM Tom_dev: the test is killin my kbd :)
10:01 PM memfrob: https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI/issues/13#issuecomment-624265234
10:02 PM memfrob: that's the linuxcnc loop which basically does the test running on your system plus abs
10:02 PM memfrob: what abs is, idk that's a linuxcnc thing :)
10:02 PM memfrob: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/abs.9.html
10:03 PM Tom_dev: 3650
10:04 PM Tom_dev: never heard of it
10:05 PM Tom_dev: oh
10:05 PM Tom_dev: i thought it was a utility
10:06 PM Tom_dev: isn't that the same as integer?
10:06 PM Tom_dev: .. and sign
10:06 PM CaptHindsight: results are always positive :)
10:06 PM Tom_dev: it returns which it was though
10:07 PM Tom_dev: looks like it separates the sign from the value?
10:07 PM Tom_dev: 4550
10:07 PM Tom_L: i can't let that run all night, i need that pc for work tomorrow :)
10:08 PM memfrob: it's alright!
10:08 PM CaptHindsight: nice to know it's working so far on something intel
10:09 PM Tom_dev: 5000
10:09 PM memfrob: when you have cycles to waste let me know lol
10:09 PM CaptHindsight: The idea of absolute value is really just the idea of “distance from 0.”
10:09 PM Tom_dev: which would you rather run? the first one or the abs one?
10:09 PM veegee: Anyone here familiar with oxy acetylene torches?
10:10 PM Tom_dev: veegee, sure. fill a balloon with it and light it
10:10 PM memfrob: the abs one I guess would be better
10:10 PM roycroft: i've cut some stuff and fused some stuff with gas
10:11 PM Tom_dev: it's like cave man tig
10:11 PM memfrob: but the number of iterations you reached is more than andy already so maybe it's just something on his system>
10:11 PM roycroft: i wouldn't say i'm an expert though
10:11 PM Tom_dev: 5550
10:11 PM memfrob: he ranges from 111 to almost 30K
10:11 PM veegee: I bought this kit: https://canadaweldingsupply.ca/collections/gas-outfits/products/copy-of-victor-medalist-350-outfit-1 but it doesn't mention it having flashback arrestors
10:11 PM CaptHindsight: oxy acetylene was my first welding class
10:12 PM veegee: I'm thinking of exchanging it to this: https://canadaweldingsupply.ca/collections/gas-outfits/products/victor-performer-edge-2-0-acetylene-propane
10:12 PM Tom_dev: victor are ok
10:12 PM CaptHindsight: before MIG
10:12 PM roycroft: my torch is a victor
10:12 PM CaptHindsight: you can add in flashback arrestors
10:12 PM Tom_dev: veegee, mentions built in check valves?
10:12 PM roycroft: yes, you can
10:13 PM veegee: They both have check valves
10:13 PM veegee: the second one also includes flashback arrestors
10:13 PM Tom_dev: 6050
10:13 PM roycroft: if you operate the torch correctly then there's not a lot of need for flashback arrestors though
10:13 PM memfrob: Tom_dev, if that system needs to be used tomorrow I would suggest getting RTAI back to where it was
10:13 PM memfrob: the modules in /usr/realtime were over-written breaking the previous instance of linuxcnc
10:14 PM veegee: In the same way that if you operate a car correctly there's not a lot of need for seat belts?
10:14 PM roycroft: no, not at all
10:14 PM CaptHindsight: I only cut with Oxy Propane/Propylene or Acetylene, never weld or braze with it
10:14 PM roycroft: because you can have total control over all aspects of the torch operation
10:14 PM Tom_dev: memfrob, just rebuilding linuxcnc from source should fix it right?
10:14 PM roycroft: the mechanical parts are simple and not prone to failure
10:15 PM veegee: In this case I'm using it to weld lead and general heating/temperating applications
10:15 PM veegee: tempering*
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: unless someone drives their car or torch into your car
10:15 PM memfrob: the linuxcnc side in itself is fine you need to reinstall the old RTAI modules
10:15 PM roycroft: and you generally don't have drunken idiots hurling themslves at you in their 2 ton weapons
10:15 PM memfrob: i think the package is literally called rtai-modules
10:15 PM veegee: pretty hard to drive a torch into a car
10:15 PM Tom_dev: memfrob, the debs?
10:15 PM memfrob: yes
10:16 PM veegee: which reminds me LOL just for fun I rammed my 22,000 lb forklift into a car
10:16 PM memfrob: what RTAI were you using before? 3.4.55?
10:16 PM Tom_dev: i was on preempt-rt
10:16 PM Tom_dev: i can just boot into that
10:16 PM veegee: don't k now whose car it is but I don't think they'd be too happy to see it
10:16 PM Tom_dev: no?
10:16 PM memfrob: oh! then you don't have to do anything except select the preempt_rt kernel on boot
10:17 PM memfrob: /usr/realtime isn't used at all by preempt_rt
10:17 PM Tom_dev: yeah i also boot windows and that's what i need
10:17 PM veegee: like at full throttle (without the forks)
10:18 PM CaptHindsight: it would blow up just like on TV
10:18 PM Tom_dev: memfrob, so if i want to test though.. reinstall the RTAI debs and rebuild linuxcnc from source?
10:18 PM Tom_dev: on metal that is
10:19 PM veegee: To be fair, it had no licence plate. The assholes in the auto repair shops in the property adjacent to ours leave their junkyard cars in our parking lot
10:19 PM Tom_dev: 7600
10:19 PM veegee: so might as well have some fun
10:19 PM memfrob: you need to make new RTAI kernel debs with "-rtai" appended to the kernel string, re-install RTAI to /usr/realtime then either make linuxcnc debs or run-in-place
10:20 PM roycroft: i may have the wrong impression of you, veegee, but my impression is that you're the type of person who maintains their tools well and learns how to use them properly
10:20 PM Tom_dev: so how do i change the kernel string?
10:20 PM memfrob: if you make linuxcnc debs for rtai and install those, linuxcnc won't work on preempt_rt until you reinstall THOSE debs
10:20 PM Tom_dev: yeah i get that part
10:20 PM roycroft: and if my impression is correct, the flashback protectors are not really an issue for you
10:20 PM roycroft: i'm not saying they're not useful
10:21 PM veegee: roycroft indeed. I've just never done oxy acetylene stuff before, so just being cautious
10:21 PM roycroft: for folks who are not very skilled and/or do not maintain their torch, they're a very useful safety feature
10:21 PM memfrob: config LOCALVERSION needs to be set to "-rtai"
10:21 PM CaptHindsight: or try to send flame up their lines
10:21 PM memfrob: this can be done in make menuconfig
10:21 PM roycroft: but as has been said here already, you can add them if you prefer the extra safety factor
10:21 PM memfrob: "General setup" -> "Local version - append to kernel release"
10:23 PM memfrob: don't type quotes in the version string though
10:23 PM Tom_dev: k
10:23 PM Tom_dev: i think i did that once but forgot about it
10:23 PM memfrob: 7600 is promising in itself so that's good
10:24 PM Tom_dev: 8850
10:24 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.weldclass.com.au/blog/16-flashback-arrestors-your-questions-answered
10:24 PM Tom_dev: i'll pull the plug at 10k
10:24 PM Tom_dev: for the night
10:24 PM memfrob: sounds good, thank you for testing out all of this!
10:25 PM Tom_dev: glad to help where i can
10:25 PM roycroft: tomorrow is don't-spend-any-money-on-anything day
10:25 PM veegee: Off topic, but the #biology channel is dead. I caught this a while ago and he's my pet now. Is it a mouse or a rat? I can't tell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k65oBmxzDq4
10:25 PM memfrob: so if someone's machine crashes every 10k start-ups, is that an actual bug at that point?
10:25 PM veegee: Another video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16kDEVfy6J0
10:26 PM Tom_dev: heh
10:27 PM veegee: I have a competition with the neighbours who use kill traps
10:27 PM Tom_dev: memfrob, so do i need to run bindeb-pkg after that menuconfig edit?
10:27 PM veegee: I put out as many live capture traps as possible
10:27 PM memfrob: yes
10:27 PM Tom_dev: k
10:28 PM Tom_dev: there may have been a couple other edits on that last RTAI test but i didn't keep track of em
10:28 PM Tom_dev: 10,000
10:28 PM Tom_dev: and change
10:29 PM memfrob: veegee, I used to own a mouse, it looks a mouse.
10:29 PM memfrob: *looks like
10:29 PM Tom_dev: 10200 and i stopped
10:29 PM veegee: Yeah, I had to amputate his tail, poor guy
10:30 PM veegee: turns out their tail flesh is designed to tear off if caught on anything, leaving just the bone exposed
10:30 PM veegee: he was squealing in pain
10:31 PM memfrob: Luckily Tylenol works for them!
10:31 PM veegee: Didn't have any opioids, so I gave him carefully dosed 80% ethanol intravenously
10:31 PM veegee: then disinfected, cut, and cauterized the tail
10:31 PM memfrob: heh! there ya go
10:31 PM veegee: perfectly successful and doesn't squeal in pain anymore :)
10:31 PM memfrob: how'd you find the vein under all the fur?
10:32 PM memfrob: steady hands too i bet..
10:33 PM Tom_dev: ok, building RTAI again
10:33 PM veegee: memfrob https://norecopa.no/norina/blood-collection-in-mice-using-the-saphenous-vein-an-alternative-to-retro-orbital-collection
10:33 PM Tom_dev: with the -rtai added
10:33 PM veegee: very very carefully near the foot where there's no fur
10:33 PM veegee: and a very fine needle. The hard part was getting him to hold still
10:34 PM veegee: but once the alcohol hit, drunken stupor just like your average hillbilly :)
10:34 PM memfrob: heh i never saw a drunk mouse
10:34 PM CaptHindsight: you Canadians have all the fun
10:34 PM veegee: when you administer it intravenously, it hits immediately
10:34 PM veegee: like within a couple of seconds
10:34 PM veegee: and a drunk mouse behaves exactly like a drunk human
10:36 PM veegee: loss of balance, slow down, and most importantly much more calm and loss of most pain sensation
10:36 PM CaptHindsight: Mice like beer, they drink Rodentboch
10:36 PM veegee: memfrob Tylenol is placebo
10:37 PM veegee: no one knows its mechanism of action
10:37 PM veegee: also I don't know how it affects mice because it's quite hepatotoxic
10:37 PM veegee: but I do know how ethanol affects mice and I felt much safer administering ethanol over Tylenol
10:37 PM CaptHindsight: real or fake placebo?
10:38 PM veegee: quite a philosophical question, that
10:38 PM memfrob: I think there's a flaw in that philosophy, just because you don't know how it works doesn't mean it doesn't.
10:38 PM memfrob: I don't think the universe would "work" otherwise.
10:38 PM CaptHindsight: what if a fake placebo works?
10:38 PM veegee: numerous studies show that it's equal to placebo for many kinds of pain
10:39 PM veegee: I did have codeine, but I extracted it from tylenol 1 and it's hard to dissolve in water, so I didn't want to risk it clogging a blood vessel
10:40 PM veegee: so ethanol turned out to be the safest and most effective option
10:40 PM memfrob: I agree ethanol would work better I just personally couldn't bring myself to deliver it in the way you did.
10:40 PM veegee: poor guy was licking the bone of his tail and squealing in pain every second
10:41 PM veegee: it's like someone tore the flesh off your arm, leaving just the bone exposed
10:41 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/gallery/Upnjz
10:42 PM memfrob: My fear of injecting ethanol into a mouse would not be justified, you're right.
10:42 PM veegee: no I'm not saying that
10:42 PM veegee: Just sharing a random story
10:42 PM memfrob: I'm sayin that, I don't trust myself to work with needles.
10:43 PM veegee: yeah that's a scary spider
10:43 PM memfrob: And I think what you did is admirable.
10:51 PM Tom_dev: Linux buster 4.19.152-rtai #2 SMP PREEMPT Thu Nov 26 22:32:06 CST 2020 x86_64 GNU/Linux
10:51 PM Tom_L: better?
10:52 PM memfrob: yes, that's perfect
10:53 PM memfrob: /usr/realtime needs another re-install btw before linuxcnc
10:53 PM memfrob: in RTAI before ./autogen.sh I would do a make clean
10:54 PM Tom_L: done
10:54 PM memfrob: with the RTAI make clean and install?
10:54 PM Tom_L: that fixes /usr/realtime?
10:55 PM Tom_L: i did make clean and ./autogen.sh
10:55 PM memfrob: then make && sudo make install in RTAI
10:55 PM memfrob: then that fixes /usr/realtime
10:55 PM memfrob: and to be sure, run sudo /usr/realtime/testsuite/run again
10:55 PM Tom_L: so the kernel is good to go after that?
10:56 PM memfrob: for linuxcnc yes
10:56 PM Tom_dev: RTH| lat min| ovl min| lat avg| lat max| ovl max| overruns
10:56 PM Tom_dev: RTD| -404| -404| 5| 3948| 3948| 0
10:57 PM Tom_dev: RTD| -352| -404| 13| 5142| 5142| 0
10:57 PM Tom_dev: RTD| -408| -408| 11| 9269| 9269| 0
10:57 PM memfrob: for the linuxcnc part I would just follow the wiki page for it
10:57 PM memfrob: that's good
10:57 PM Tom_L: i know how to build it i think
10:57 PM memfrob: perfect then you're all set!
10:57 PM Tom_L: it's all the kernel crap i get lost in
10:57 PM Tom_L: thanks
10:57 PM memfrob: kernel crap is where i do best :)
10:58 PM Tom_L: so i can keep the preempt-rt linuxcnc debs and run those again as well?
10:58 PM memfrob: I hope that abs loop works for you when you get around to it
10:58 PM Tom_L: remind me
10:58 PM memfrob: The preempt-rt linuxcnc debs are part of sources.list right?
10:58 PM Tom_L: i'll probably have time tomorrow pm
10:58 PM memfrob: (synaptic package manager)
10:59 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure but i know how to do that
10:59 PM Tom_L: i think
10:59 PM memfrob: if the repos for linuxcnc preempt-rt are in sources.list then you can overwrite your current linuxcnc install with the newly generated linuxcnc rtai debs you make
10:59 PM memfrob: to go back, you need to uninstall the linuxcnc rtai debs and re-install the preempt-rt ones
11:00 PM Tom_L: gotcha
11:03 PM Tom_L: doesn't look like they're in the list
11:06 PM memfrob: can you dump /etc/apt/sources.list to dpaste/pastebin ?
11:07 PM memfrob: i thought linuxcnc adds itself to the repo list
11:08 PM Tom_L: do i still want to compile linuxcnc with realtime=uspace?
11:08 PM Tom_L: isn't that for preempt-rt and not RTAI?
11:09 PM memfrob: correct, you don't want that
11:10 PM memfrob: cd linuxcnc/debian && ./configure rtai
11:10 PM Tom_L: compiling
11:10 PM memfrob: yay!
11:11 PM Tom_L: well ^^ that may be different using master ehh?
11:11 PM memfrob: 2.8 and master both support the 4.19 rtai kernel
11:11 PM memfrob: 2.7 does not
11:11 PM Tom_L: i'm building 2.8
11:12 PM memfrob: then you're fine
11:12 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure i did that right for a deb though
11:13 PM memfrob: if you didn't cd into the debian directory, no it was not done right
11:13 PM memfrob: ./autogen.sh && make is not for building debs
11:14 PM memfrob: cd linuxcnc/debian && ./configure rtai && cd .. && dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc
11:15 PM memfrob: then in your home folder you should have linuxcnc rtai packages when it's done
11:17 PM Tom_L: doesn't recognize the kernel
11:18 PM memfrob: i need to see the message and context
11:19 PM Tom_dev: ./configure rtai
11:19 PM Tom_dev: your kernel 'rtai' is not known. There might be needed dependencies which won't get set automatically.
11:19 PM Tom_dev: successfully configured for 'Debian-10'-'rtai'..
11:20 PM memfrob: it may be ok to ignore that
11:20 PM memfrob: if there's an actual problem you'll know once you hit the kernel modules
11:20 PM memfrob: kinematics.ko etc
11:20 PM Tom_dev: error: Unmet build dependencies: linux-image-rtai rtai-modules-rtai | rtai-modules-rtai linux-headers-rtai
11:20 PM memfrob: ugh
11:21 PM memfrob: oh!
11:21 PM memfrob: that rings a bell
11:21 PM memfrob: try...
11:21 PM memfrob: ./configure rtai-4.19.152
11:21 PM memfrob: or if that doesn't work: ./configure rtai-4.19.152-rtai
11:22 PM memfrob: it checks for rtai-modules too.. damn
11:22 PM memfrob: that means you need to package RTAI itself as well
11:22 PM Tom_dev: ./configure rtai-4.19.152-rtai
11:22 PM Tom_dev: your kernel 'rtai-4.19.152-rtai' is not known. There might be needed dependencies which won't get set automatically.
11:22 PM Tom_dev: successfully configured for 'Debian-10'-'rtai-4.19.152-rtai'..
11:22 PM Tom_dev: both give the same message
11:23 PM memfrob: according to this page: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Building_RTAI_5.2_Packages
11:23 PM memfrob: it says: debian/configure -r
11:24 PM Tom_dev: ./configure -r
11:24 PM Tom_dev: your kernel '4.19.152-rtai' is not known. There might be needed dependencies which won't get set automatically.
11:24 PM Tom_dev: successfully configured for 'Debian-10'-'4.19.152-rtai'..
11:24 PM memfrob: I'm not on debian right now..
11:25 PM memfrob: If you give me a few days I can host all these debs myself on my github page
11:25 PM Tom_dev: dpkg-checkbuilddeps
11:25 PM Tom_dev: dpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: Unmet build dependencies: rtai-modules-4.19.152-rtai | rtai-modules-4.19.152-rtai
11:25 PM memfrob: I don't know how to do this off hand..
11:25 PM Tom_dev: i'm in no hurry
11:25 PM memfrob: so you got me right now heh
11:25 PM Tom_dev: it's a test pc anyway
11:26 PM memfrob: I will make us some debs soon :)
11:26 PM Tom_dev: but right now if i boot back into preempt, linuxcnc should run
11:26 PM memfrob: yes
11:26 PM Tom_dev: i need to know how as well
11:26 PM Tom_dev: take good notes :)
11:26 PM memfrob: Once I have it all figured out, I will let you know!
11:26 PM Tom_dev: heading to bed
11:26 PM Tom_dev: thanks
11:26 PM memfrob: cheers mate!
11:43 PM memfrob: heh I just figured out. "your kernel '4.19.152-rtai' is not known." can be completely ignored. The only part relevant is: error: Unmet build dependencies: rtai-modules-4.19.152-rtai which is because the RTAI modules in /usr/realtime were not packaged.
11:43 PM memfrob: As long as you have all the dependencies, you can ignore the kernel message.