#linuxcnc Logs

Nov 20 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:21 AM miss0r: my god. I never thought it would be *that* easy to setup a windows domain with dns and dhcp.
01:27 AM miss0r: I am truly amazed. How can the so called micro$oft technicians charge what they do?!
01:28 AM miss0r: hehe yeah
01:29 AM miss0r: I just set ip up on a kvm host. its been a while since I did any windows installation in a virtual machine on linux. I am realy positive about the amount of compatibility. I thought I had to dig in with all sorts of oddball drivers. It just works.
01:33 AM XXCoder: thats good
01:34 AM miss0r: later today, though, I have to move a physical win 2003 server onto the same host in another virtual machine. That might break balls. We shall see :)
01:34 AM miss0r: I have to get back to it ;)
02:31 AM Deejay: moin
04:05 AM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
04:59 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:59 AM XXCoder: yo
05:00 AM JT-Cave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyz2a0wPWik
05:17 AM miss0r: JT-Cave: That is a pretty decent size bore for a mini canon :D
05:20 AM XXCoder: how the heck can they repeat wheel insides
05:21 AM XXCoder: not the holes, but ring indention
05:21 AM miss0r: whaa? (Not understanding the question)
05:22 AM XXCoder: you know how wheel has thicker outer ring and axis area
05:22 AM XXCoder: with it being hollow between those areas
05:22 AM miss0r: yeah?
05:22 AM XXCoder: how do guy repeat the same shape 4 times, both sides of both wheels heh
05:23 AM miss0r: are you thinking how he can make those four cuts the same? :S
05:23 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:23 AM miss0r: Have you spend alot of time on a lathe?
05:23 AM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/cannon/cannon.xhtml
05:23 AM XXCoder: no
05:23 AM * miss0r is not being a jackass, I just don't see the issue :D
05:24 AM miss0r: by touching off on the face for depth and using the same setup/using the dro
05:24 AM XXCoder: yeah? hmm didnt think of dro
05:24 AM XXCoder: though if its manual its much harder im pretty sure?
05:25 AM miss0r: well, you can easily do it without a dro, just use the compound slide for precision if your slide does not have measurements on the z movement
05:25 AM miss0r: the process is much the same
05:25 AM miss0r: brass is easier to cut than tool steels
05:26 AM XXCoder: interesting. yeah
05:26 AM miss0r: but using a proper tool, regular garden vareity steel is quite easy to turn too
05:26 AM miss0r: what I've always wanted to learn how to do is precision barrel rifling
05:27 AM miss0r: (the helical/spiral grooves in a rifle bore)
05:27 AM XXCoder: i learned how first screws was made and its hella cool
05:27 AM XXCoder: i wonder if same thing was used for rifling
05:27 AM miss0r: probably. I mean, I can make some riflings. but doing it acurately is beyond me
05:28 AM XXCoder: oucnothing worse than cannon not firing for a min
05:28 AM XXCoder: llemme link you that video
05:28 AM miss0r: single pointing it just means a ridiculous flex in the tool (as the bores are usualy quite small compared to its length)
05:28 AM miss0r: yeah. thanks
05:29 AM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/yzMU8rH4PN8?t=354 time is set just before start of render that shows how rifling could be made by similiar way, but i HIGHLY suggest watch whole video
05:30 AM XXCoder: that history video is amazing
05:31 AM miss0r: hmm. I guess you can do something like that. But the "thread pitch" of a rifle bore is like 1 turn per 20 inches perhaps
05:31 AM miss0r: if ecen that
05:31 AM miss0r: even*
05:31 AM XXCoder: wow that long
05:32 AM JT-Cave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihPFjuxBjPo
05:32 AM miss0r: yeah, its for giving the projectile a rotational stability to fly straight
05:32 AM XXCoder: yeah that i do know
05:32 AM XXCoder: i barely know much about guns and such but yeah lol
05:33 AM XXCoder: poor man lathe lol
05:33 AM miss0r: JT-Cave: Yeah.. I guess I could make a "proper" tool to do much the same
05:33 AM enleth: miss0r: single point, but with a boring bar that fits snugly in the bore
05:33 AM XXCoder: that video is interesting indeed
05:33 AM miss0r: enleth indeed
05:34 AM enleth: gun lathes seem to be equipped with a tailstock-like contraption that telescopes the boring bar while rotating it
05:34 AM miss0r: oh, JT; did I show you my roof tent?
05:37 AM miss0r: JT-Cave: if I didn't: https://imgur.com/a/adxiVAJ
05:39 AM JT-Cave: what is the tentbox for?
05:40 AM miss0r: we are going to be 4 people camping in it. with all the other stuff that needs to go inside of it, it is only comfortable for two people to sleep inside of it
05:41 AM JT-Cave: so an upstairs apartment?
05:42 AM XXCoder: if van is rockin', dont come knockin'
05:42 AM miss0r: we shall name it 'the penthouse'
05:43 AM miss0r: I've slept in it for three days now. (The wife thinks me crazy :D)
05:43 AM miss0r: but just to get a feel for it. last night it was just over freezing outside and was almost stormy. I sleps like a baby
05:44 AM XXCoder: nice
05:44 AM XXCoder: sounds like decent isulation
05:45 AM miss0r: nah. That comes down to the sleeping bag. The sides are only some sort of rubber impregnated textile. But the roof and floor is covered with some sort of thermo stuff, and it has a nice memory foam matress buildin
05:45 AM XXCoder: well i didnt specify on what ;)
05:46 AM XXCoder: but yeah
05:46 AM miss0r: it takes litterally 30 seconds to setup and only 2 minuts to take down
05:46 AM miss0r: it has four gas pistons with some arms in each corner to just pop up, once the straps are removed
05:46 AM miss0r: it was expensive, but I am a happy man.
05:49 AM JT-Cave: cool
05:49 AM XXCoder: it dont rise on its own?
05:49 AM XXCoder: ie you have to trigger for it to lift after releasing latches
05:49 AM miss0r: no, you have to undo some straps and lift it ever so slightly
05:50 AM XXCoder: not too bad then. might be issue if latch fails and your vehicle suddely has bigger reistance to air
05:51 AM miss0r: hehe... air resistance was not top of the list when this vehicle was build to begin with :D
05:52 AM XXCoder: indeed
05:57 AM Tom_L: morning
06:06 AM TekniQue: hi
06:07 AM JT-Cave: yo
06:07 AM XXCoder: lo
09:05 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:33 AM jymmmm: morning
10:00 AM unterhaus_: looking at people's dro scale installs on lathes, one person took a big ugly hunk of metal out of their carriage
10:00 AM unterhaus_: https://www.kairospens.com/installing-a-dro/
10:55 AM Loetmichel: *grmbl* China batteries. My Samsung Note3s battery is not even a year old. Standby time <5h... and that was >48h when it was new. *sigh* aand ordering another one... Doubt that will live longer though :(
11:37 AM JT-Shop: damn toolnut went up $300 on the drum sander I was going to buy from them today...
11:37 AM JT-Shop: rockler still had the old price but had a $180 handling charge
11:37 AM JT-Shop: woodcraft still had the old price but I had to pay $114 in taxes...
11:38 AM JT-Shop: should have bought it yesterday
12:02 PM unterhaus_: wonder where the bolt that holds my cross slide leadscrew nut to the taper attachment got off to
12:02 PM unterhaus_: taper attachement is stuck pretty solid though
12:04 PM JT-Shop: odd my BP Y axis was out by 0.501"
12:31 PM unterhaus_: how does a y axis get out by a half inch?
01:00 PM JT-Shop: opps got a 0 in the wrong spot 0.051"
01:00 PM JT-Shop: I have no clue how it got off, I never reset it and always use the rear jaw as Y0.000
01:03 PM * miss0r2 has just hit a snag booting up the windows 2003 server I just generated an image from. apparently now it says that the installation needs to be activated. That part must have gone wrong somehow moving the image... :S
01:17 PM jymmmm: miss0r What "image" did you create? What from? An existing system?
01:17 PM jymmmm: miss0r are you talking bare metal or VM ?
01:26 PM miss0r2: jymmmm: I did a dd of the disk in a bare metal install, this made a raw image. This I used KVM utils to convert it to qcow2
01:26 PM miss0r2: hah.. apparently calling up m$ activation hotline worked.
01:26 PM miss0r2: who would've thought that they did that for something that is very much OEL
01:26 PM miss0r2: OEL*
01:27 PM miss0r2: EOL... jeez
01:27 PM JT-Shop: they activated it?
01:28 PM miss0r2: well, the automated robot dit. I answered something like 45-50 numbers, and they replied with something like 30, and it worked.
01:28 PM miss0r2: alot of typing, both on the PC and the phone
01:28 PM JT-Shop: I need to get my copy of windblows xp on a PC so I can use Solidworks down in the beer cave
01:29 PM miss0r2: why do you need XP for that? some old version of solidworks?
01:29 PM JT-Shop: yea it's a 32 bit version of SW
01:30 PM miss0r2: you know, sometimes it is possible to maker older software run on modern OS'es
01:30 PM JT-Shop: they used to allow two pcs to have it like a laptop and a desktop but they stopped that
01:30 PM JT-Shop: I "think" I tried to install it on windblows 7
01:31 PM miss0r2: I've actualy only come across one piece of software that I hands down had to give up on making work on any 64bit platform. Even a 32bit OS installed on a 64bit pc.
01:32 PM JT-Shop: 6 good parts on the bench and 6 in the McCoys bin so I'm starting to pull ahead
01:32 PM miss0r2: hehe good
01:33 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, you don't have 7?
01:33 PM Tom_L: ahh it won't work on 7?
01:34 PM Tom_L: you can get 7 in 32 or 64bit
01:34 PM Tom_L: did you try the 32bit one?
01:44 PM JT-Shop: no, I didn't know you can get 7 in 32 bit
01:44 PM unterhaus_: do auto parts stores have gasket material any more?
01:45 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, yeah, i have both
01:45 PM Tom_L: i'd suggest it over xp
01:45 PM Tom_L: i think you can download it as long as you have some 7 key
01:45 PM Tom_L: works for both versions
01:46 PM unterhaus_: you can get 10 in 32 bit as well. Will reduce an older machine to its knees though
01:46 PM Tom_L: i have some things i need 32bit for and others i need 64bit for
01:48 PM unterhaus_: it's a lot harder to run 16 bit programs on a 64 bit machine. VM's, etc
01:49 PM unterhaus_: used to be WoW, but they didn't want to recompile I guess
01:49 PM miss0r2: success! now the win2003r2 is running and working in the VM. I just tested the sql database, the domain controller, DNS, DHCP everything picked right back up.
01:49 PM * miss0r2 sighs in relieve
01:49 PM Tom_itx: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7
01:50 PM miss0r2: Now I will just leave it running overnight to make absolutly damn sure that the old error were caused by hardware faliure, not some obscure stuff I have no clue about.
01:51 PM miss0r2: in 'older' windows versions, you could open a status windows that showed you how many packets were sent/received by a given NIC. When this one fell off the network the sent packet count were in the hundrets of trillion in a split second.
01:52 PM miss0r2: I setup wireshark to try'n catch some of all that data to see what was generating it. Apparently wireshark could not detect any such amount of data, which led me to believe the NIC itself was broken.
01:52 PM miss0r2: I then replaced the NIC with another one, but as the one I was trying to replace alltogether was also the server management plug I could not disable it 100%, so it kept on making issues in the background, once in a while forcing the other NIC off the network, even though it was not itself connected.
01:53 PM miss0r2: Now I am just hoping here. :D
01:54 PM JT-Shop: crap I know what happened now... the head moved up on the tilt
01:54 PM miss0r2: JT-Cave: What are you making(scrapping) ?
01:56 PM JT-Shop: a gate hinge using some SS tubing and drilling too fast pushed the head of my BP Series 1 up those 3 lock bolts are anemic at best
01:56 PM JT-Shop: just loosened them and the head fell down 1/4"
01:57 PM miss0r2: bah
01:57 PM miss0r2: have you tried yelling at it? If nothing else, it might make you feel better
02:00 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, i have the 32bit iso on my site if you want it
02:00 PM Tom_L: i thought i had both up there but just the 32bit one
02:04 PM unterhaus_: of all the things I have done to a bridgeport, I'm a little surprised I have never moved the tilt
02:05 PM unterhaus_: one thing we were machining, the whole head was shaking
02:05 PM unterhaus_: hopefully that's one advantage of a full rigid series II head
02:06 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, yea give me the link and I'll d/l in the am
02:07 PM roycroft: i'm getting tired of this linuxcnc machine
02:08 PM roycroft: i got the standoffs for the wireless card yesterday
02:08 PM roycroft: they're m2.5, which is the hole size in the system board for them
02:08 PM roycroft: and is the smallest size standoffs i could find
02:08 PM roycroft: they fit fine
02:08 PM roycroft: but the screws that hold the wireless card down are m2, not m2.5
02:09 PM roycroft: now i have to find some m2.5 screws with super narrow heads
02:09 PM roycroft: probably i'll have to find some cheese head screws
02:09 PM roycroft: if the heads are too big they'll interfere with the antenna connectors
03:02 PM satiowadahc: Starting to think this laptop is overkill for LCNC... I can compile it in 45 seconds...
03:17 PM jdh__: does linuxcnc work reliably on laptops now?
03:21 PM satiowadahc: I mean... I run it on a laptop mostly do to the fact I also program several other devices and mills so I need to move frequently.
03:22 PM satiowadahc: I use to run only virtual machines for testing but now I just put a U20.04 with a realtime kernel on my laptop and it runs quite well
03:23 PM Loetmichel: jdh__: depends hevily on the laptop.
03:23 PM Loetmichel: and if you use a mesa card or not
03:24 PM Loetmichel: with LPT Port the power save interrupts can bite you in the rear end really hard sometimes
03:24 PM satiowadahc: When you compile your RT kernel make sure to disable hibernate in Power options
03:35 PM CaptHindsight: laptop using Ethernet to Mesa is the safest bet
03:36 PM satiowadahc: Yeah Mesa Just makes life simple
03:37 PM CaptHindsight: I would not trust LPT on a laptop unless it used corebbot for ALL the firmware, so fat chance
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: it would be some work but a chromebook that runs coreboot would make the software end easier but they won't have an LPT port
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: or an internal PCIe
04:17 PM tubes4branes: CaptHindsight: I've been looking at the the Large Formlabs 10k SLA printer, do you think yours can produce as good a print/similiar build volume? If so, I'd get one from you instead of purchasing one from the FormLabs.
04:21 PM * JT-Shop notices the boss is not around so time to pop the top on a Wheihenstephaner
04:21 PM JT-Shop: also I only scrapped 4 parts not the original 8 that I though were bad
04:47 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:49 PM andypugh: Quiet night
05:50 PM JT-Cave: yes it's been pretty quiet
05:50 PM JT-Cave: sure would like to know why my BP series 1 head moves up so easy when drilling
05:52 PM Tom_L: andy how's things on your side of the pond?
05:57 PM andypugh: Wierd
05:57 PM andypugh: But, not as wierd as the US.
05:58 PM Tom_L: things shutting down again?
05:58 PM andypugh: You should try having a monarch as head of states, saves all this bother
06:23 PM andypugh: So, my mum thinks there is something wrong with her central heating, so it’s 225 miles there to lool for me tomorrow, then 225 miles back, as I am not allowed to stay over.
06:24 PM andypugh: (also, I kond of want to get back to carry on working on….. an improved central heating controller.
06:27 PM XXCoder: yay new antique restore video. love those
06:28 PM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/p-0Y6jV4vrU
06:41 PM CaptHindsight: tubes4branes: as shown it had a variable XY per pixel res of 140-90um since the customer was replacing their formlabs with these printers for high throughput at same res as the formlabs
06:45 PM CaptHindsight: https://formlabs.com/3d-printers/form-3l/ the newer models mention 25um XY but it's SLA so slow
06:53 PM tubes4branes: I need something with a similar build volume to the Form 3L, slow is okay for me.
06:53 PM tubes4branes: Propietary resins are not okay.
06:54 PM CaptHindsight: 33.5 × 20 × 30 cm 13.2 × 7.9 × 11.8 in
06:55 PM tubes4branes: awesome.
06:56 PM CaptHindsight: ^^ the 3L XYZ build volume
06:56 PM tubes4branes: How much? and how long does it take to get one?
07:01 PM tubes4branes: With your system, it lowers the part down into the Resin?
07:01 PM tubes4branes: where the Form 3L the part rises up from the Resin?
07:01 PM CaptHindsight: they may be designed either way
07:02 PM CaptHindsight: https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0955221919300561-gr2.jpg
07:02 PM tubes4branes: any advantages / disadvantages to either design?
07:04 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.degruyter.com/view/journals/eng/7/1/article-p100.xml
07:05 PM CaptHindsight: just to be confusing i guess, some papers are flipping the names around....
07:05 PM CaptHindsight: top down vs bottom up
07:06 PM tubes4branes: Thank you.
07:06 PM tubes4branes: lots of great info in that paper.
07:06 PM tubes4branes: :)
07:06 PM CaptHindsight: so lets go with bottom vs top projection
07:06 PM tubes4branes: I'm new to this, so either method works for me.
07:06 PM tubes4branes: I just have robot parts I want to print.
07:07 PM CaptHindsight: all the low cost DLP, mSLA and SLA printers are bottom projection
07:07 PM CaptHindsight: they project the curing energy up through the bottom of the vat
07:07 PM CaptHindsight: and the bottom of the vat is where polymerization occurs
07:08 PM CaptHindsight: after a layer is cured the part is pulled up and away from the vat bottom to allow fresh uncured/polymerized resin to reflow
07:09 PM CaptHindsight: the the curing energy (UV, violet, blue light, etc) is projected or exposed onto the next layer
07:10 PM CaptHindsight: this type can have a very large Z build travel without the need for a vat of the same depth
07:10 PM tubes4branes: have you ever heard of GLV's ( Grating Light Valves ) ?
07:10 PM CaptHindsight: so it does not require a deep vat of resin
07:11 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grating_light_valve
07:11 PM tubes4branes: That seems more ecconomical, but part build quality if paramount importance to me.
07:11 PM tubes4branes: yes, those.
07:13 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press_Archive/200206/02-023E/
07:15 PM tubes4branes: That is a linear array one, the IBM's are a XY arrangement.
07:15 PM CaptHindsight: the main problem with bottom projection is slower speeds and peel forces for each layer and lack of layerless printing
07:15 PM CaptHindsight: each layer printed gets peeled up and away from the bottom of the vat
07:16 PM CaptHindsight: top projection has no peel forces but it requires a vat as deep and the Z for the prints
07:16 PM CaptHindsight: and the/as the
07:18 PM tubes4branes: if I can purchase a eco friendly resin in 55Gallon Drums, then the larger resin method is fine.
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: I make resins as well
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: eco friendly is a stretch
07:19 PM tubes4branes: something that won't kill me.
07:19 PM CaptHindsight: since that usually some soy based acrylate mixed with the usual suspects
07:20 PM CaptHindsight: they can cause allergic reactions if exposed to them for too long
07:20 PM CaptHindsight: it's the same warning for most components
07:20 PM tubes4branes: So I'd need venting, and some carbon scrubbers I assume.
07:21 PM CaptHindsight: vent outdoors
07:21 PM XXCoder: and chemical gloves
07:21 PM XXCoder: face mask
07:21 PM XXCoder: whole body if its large pour that might splash into body
07:21 PM tubes4branes: I think I'd want to have a enclosed chamber that vents fresh air in, and scrubbs any volatiles, or dangerous things so they don't just end up in our air.
07:22 PM CaptHindsight: the same as a chem hood
07:22 PM tubes4branes: exactly.
07:24 PM CaptHindsight: the formlabs are so slow it could take years to go through 200L
07:25 PM tubes4branes: wow :(
07:26 PM tubes4branes: how long can your system make a 6x6 sized part of medium complexity?
07:26 PM tubes4branes: with highest resolution?
07:26 PM tubes4branes: 6" ^ 3
07:27 PM CaptHindsight: if 2 DLP's are used to get the square XY volume....
07:28 PM tubes4branes: its so amazing that this is essential printing with light, but in 3D.
07:28 PM tubes4branes: just so cool.
07:28 PM CaptHindsight: 100um Z can be under 1 second
07:29 PM tubes4branes: def. pretty fast.
07:29 PM CaptHindsight: 6 in = 152.4mm
07:30 PM CaptHindsight: x10 = 1520 100um layers
07:30 PM CaptHindsight: 1520 seconds @ 1 sec/100um
07:30 PM CaptHindsight: sorry 1540
07:30 PM tubes4branes: that is terrific.
07:31 PM CaptHindsight: heh, typos
07:31 PM tubes4branes: no worries.
07:31 PM CaptHindsight: 1524 layers
07:31 PM CaptHindsight: <30 minutes
07:33 PM CaptHindsight: depending on resin and part shapes you can move at a minute per cm Z
07:34 PM CaptHindsight: with DLP or a GLV you cure a plane at a time vs just a single point when using a laser
07:35 PM CaptHindsight: so for your example 2 x 4K DLP's = 16.588 million pixels are cured per second
07:36 PM CaptHindsight: 40um XY per pixel
07:38 PM CaptHindsight: huh "third-party resin voids warranty; No major speed increase from older Formlabs models" referring to the 3L
07:39 PM CaptHindsight: "The Form 3 is not a particularly fast printer, taking between 10 hours and 17 hours and 21 minutes to complete our standard 4.5-inch Thinker test print"
07:40 PM tubes4branes: egad, that is extremely slow :(
07:40 PM tubes4branes: that is just untennable.
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: I think the 4.5" refers to the print Z height
07:40 PM tubes4branes: I have a bunch of GLV's.
07:40 PM tubes4branes: they are in working 3 GLV RGB projectors.
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: yes, SLA is slow since you are just moving a laser or 2 or 4 with galvos over the print area
07:40 PM tubes4branes: 1280x1024 resolution.
07:41 PM tubes4branes: Galvos can scan pretty damn fast, though they heat up a lot, but there are some good beam steering designs for them.
07:41 PM CaptHindsight: I have some older DLP's like that
07:41 PM tubes4branes: The projectors are made by Christies, they are tanks.
07:41 PM CaptHindsight: galvo prices really dropped in the past year or so
07:42 PM tubes4branes: it has a 800PSI xeon bulb to feed the light engine.
07:42 PM CaptHindsight: I use galvos for SLS
07:44 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/8Tt6ksy 500W 400nm LED arrays
07:46 PM CaptHindsight: most people that get a Formlabs get them for the software and ease of use...
07:46 PM CaptHindsight: since they make it more like an easy bake
07:47 PM CaptHindsight: but you pay for that and have to wait much longer for your prints
07:47 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: I keep seeing “AnyCubic Photon”s really cheap, are they useless?
07:48 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: they just released a 4K version of the Photon for $500 and there are already copies for <$400
07:48 PM CaptHindsight: they are bottom up projection with a 4K LCD under the vat
07:48 PM andypugh: I have seen them at £119
07:49 PM CaptHindsight: yes for the 2k or HD res versions
07:49 PM tubes4branes: easy baking isn't necessary for me.
07:49 PM CaptHindsight: they have a fixed XY res since thya have the LCD pressed right up against the bottom of the vat
07:49 PM CaptHindsight: so smartphone screen sizes only
07:50 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.anycubic.com/products/anycubic-photon
07:50 PM CaptHindsight: 2560*1440(2k)HD LCD
07:51 PM andypugh: Hmmm… I have this idea and don;t know what to do with it. It’s for the glue-guns. I have a way to do direct drive extrusion bit with the motor static.
07:51 PM CaptHindsight: XY DPI : 47um (2560*1440)
07:51 PM CaptHindsight: Printing speed : 20mm/h Z but I have a fast resin that is 5 seconds per 100um layer
07:52 PM andypugh: (I tried to give it to Ultimaker, but they were not interested. Not that I told them what it actually was)
07:53 PM CaptHindsight: static motors to drive the XY nozzle around?
07:53 PM CaptHindsight: photon XYZ = Printing volume : 115mm *65mm *155mm (4.52″*2.56″*6.1″)
07:54 PM andypugh: I like the Ultimaker mechanics, but the Bowden extruder is (apparently) a problem. (I actually see the Bowden extruder as a clever ide atoo)
07:54 PM CaptHindsight: these are so low cost since they use a high volume smartphone display that may only cost $25
07:55 PM andypugh: Yes, I have a design for a direct drive extruder and XY system ehere no motor moves.
07:55 PM CaptHindsight: they also use a cheap non acme lead screw
07:56 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: I plan to build some for extruding silicone
07:56 PM CaptHindsight: so no heat required
07:57 PM andypugh: Talking of clever, there is a delta design I have seen which uses a really short Bowden, so the motor is about 50mm above the head and wobbles around. Really ckever way to decouple the ineritia.
07:58 PM CaptHindsight: I was a looking at deltas a few months ago
07:58 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: what was the build volume? just roughly
08:02 PM andypugh: Anyway, I am unsure what to do with my idea: 1) Give it to my employer as a patent. Almost-guaranteed £1000 or so. 2) Publish it (hackady.io for example) No money but it might at least get used, possible minor fame. 3) actually design it properly and start a kickstarter, The last one is tricky as it could work for nearly all current printers (not deltas) but would be a unique design for each.
08:03 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: Of the delta I saw? Can’t recall, but it was one of the mainstream ones.
08:03 PM tubes4branes: locking the idea to a company for 1000 pounds, doesn't seem worth it, I'd go the hackaday route.
08:06 PM enleth: andypugh: if you're thinking of having the X and Y stages identical, stacked on top of each other and one rotated by 90deg to the other, with the extruder mounted where they intersect - this has been done already, but it's nowhere near popular
08:07 PM andypugh: enleth: Yes, that’s the Ultimaker design. I am talking about how you drive the extruder.
08:08 PM enleth: ah, so no moving extruder motor either
08:08 PM andypugh: Exactly
08:09 PM enleth: I think I've seen a printer or two that push the filament through a teflon-lined tube, with the extruder motor mounted to the frame
08:10 PM CaptHindsight: reprap type prints are dropping in popularity since they didn't actually revolutionize manufacturing, imagine that
08:10 PM CaptHindsight: prints/printers
08:10 PM enleth: as long as the tube doesn't stretch, it kinda works
08:10 PM andypugh: Yes, that’s the Bowden design
08:11 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: hobby 3D printing got hyped up to hell and back by people who had no understanding whatsoever of this or any other manufacturing technology
08:11 PM CaptHindsight: so I'm not sure how many extruders you can still sell
08:11 PM andypugh: And then there is :: https://flex3drive.com/product/g5-flex-extruder/
08:12 PM CaptHindsight: the SLS patents expired and guess what happened next?
08:12 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: but they kinda did revolutionize some parts of product prototyping, in that very small companies can do this for close to no cost, so they have their place
08:12 PM CaptHindsight: the cost of SLS powder stayed high
08:12 PM enleth: there just might be something inherently expensive about it
08:12 PM CaptHindsight: due to all sorts of mysterious manufacturing issues
08:13 PM CaptHindsight: and the Chinese have not jumped on it yet
08:13 PM andypugh: For making foundry patterns in the veteran vehicle restoration field they are brilliant.
08:13 PM enleth: the patents probably went into just as much details to patent it, but not enough to easily copy the formula
08:13 PM andypugh: (3D printers in general, that is)
08:14 PM CaptHindsight: the powders may be made by cryo grinding
08:14 PM CaptHindsight: or cryo milling
08:14 PM enleth: honestly, I hate cheap 3D printers, but I'm still willing to admit that they have their uses and sometimes are genuinely needed
08:14 PM enleth: although if I can redesign something for a laser cutter, I will
08:15 PM enleth: it'll finish cutting the n-th iteration of the design with all the fixes in it by the time the printer is about halfway through fucking up the first print
08:15 PM CaptHindsight: there is a patent on synthesizing nylon directly to ~50um spheres
08:16 PM andypugh: I have almost the cheapest, but here was a really good use, even though the prints were bad: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4645638
08:16 PM CaptHindsight: when you cryo mill the powder particles are not as uniform
08:17 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, great for things like that in low volume
08:21 PM Tom_L: andypugh, what cad do you use for the 3d printer stuff?
08:21 PM andypugh: Fusion360 mainly
08:21 PM Tom_L: does it output stl?
08:22 PM CaptHindsight: yes
08:22 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: I was involved in a COVID-related project in March - my Hackerspace teamed up with a local injection molding company to set up face shield manufacturing and supply hospitals all over the country for free - and one of the things I learned is that injection mold designers at a pretty big and serious company in that business are perfectly happy to use hobby-grade FDM printers for the initial
08:22 PM enleth: prototypes
08:22 PM enleth: I was somewhat surprised, but they said for that use case it's perfectly fine
08:22 PM andypugh: Yes. But it can also send straight to Cura. Then Cura sends straight to Octoprint. So I never actually see the STL.
08:23 PM Tom_L: nice
08:24 PM enleth: BTW, they managed to design, mill, test and setup the injection molds for face shield frames and elastomer straps, from scratch, in a week
08:24 PM CaptHindsight: enleth: I build FFF printers as well :) but usually as a hybrid along with SLA/DLP or inkjet
08:24 PM andypugh: My employer happily print car suspension parts for me to drive around on.
08:24 PM Tom_L: heh
08:25 PM andypugh: (though that’s not hobby-grade stuff. That Renishaw aluminium SLS)
08:27 PM andypugh: Talking of suspension, I thought this was interesting: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1EVz7adDs8uFhwMy5
08:28 PM andypugh: Not even pretending to be a normal spring.
08:29 PM CaptHindsight: if you can swap the plastic extruder for a syringe or ear pump then you can dispense gels and pastes
08:29 PM andypugh: But, time to sleep.
08:29 PM tubes4branes: sleep well andypugh.
08:29 PM tubes4branes: :)
08:29 PM CaptHindsight: silicones, photopolymers, epoxy, living cells etc
10:47 PM XXCoder: lol this is a joke table saw https://youtu.be/9hd_m0LAsAs
10:47 PM XXCoder: also dangerous