#linuxcnc Logs
Nov 19 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:01 AM roycroft: yes, but i'd rather not buy a copy of vmware workstation if i can help it
12:08 AM CaptHindsight: doesn't it have GPU accel pass through now?
12:12 AM enleth: it does, but it's a bit shitty
12:12 AM enleth: the real way to go is a linux KVM hypervisor with a windows guest and a full, real GPU assigned with PCI passthrough
12:14 AM enleth: a proper IOMMU is needed for this to work properly, but when it does, performance is basically identical to native
12:14 AM enleth: but you can snapshot and rollback that windows VM if needed
12:25 AM roycroft: it's easier for me to just dual boot if can get that working properly
12:25 AM roycroft: i don't use windows very often
12:25 AM roycroft: but when i need to i need to
12:26 AM CaptHindsight: would like windows on a VM for quick restore
12:31 AM enleth: CaptHindsight: KVM, the one that's built into the Linux kernel
12:33 AM CaptHindsight: ah ok
12:35 AM enleth: CaptHindsight: and bear in mind that getting the IOMMU to work just right for this requires both a CPU that supports it (that's easy, check the specs) and a motherboard that doesn't either disable it deliberately or make it unusable because it's designed by incompetent morons
12:35 AM enleth: oh, and the last part can change for better or worse with UEFI updates
12:36 AM CaptHindsight: well x86 firmware is expected broken until proven otherwise
12:36 AM CaptHindsight: always have a way to roll BIOS back
12:37 AM enleth: also, you can't just pass arbitrary PCIe devices over to a VM, you pass in whole blocks of PCIe lanes, called IOMMU groups, and the way a given motherboard groups things can make or break the setup
12:37 AM CaptHindsight: all the better CAD tools are still pretty much windows only
12:37 AM enleth: so, one that has the PCIe x16 slot alone in a separate group is perfect
12:38 AM enleth: one that groups the GPU slot with the SATA controller - probably less so, if you want the linux host to keep control of the latter
12:38 AM CaptHindsight: how about Intel vs AMD in the past 2-3 years?
12:38 AM enleth: AMD's IOMMU implementation is way better, more predictable and easier to get non-broken on actual motherboards
12:39 AM CaptHindsight: I'm still running win7 on a machine that hasn't had a network connection in 5+ years
12:40 AM enleth: honestly, I'd say that as much as Sandy Bridge was a true revolution that gave Intel absolute superiority for many years, this has changed completely when Ryzen came out
12:40 AM enleth: right now, if you're buying new hardware for a workstation, get a Ryzen
12:40 AM enleth: cheaper, faster, overall better
12:40 AM CaptHindsight: but time is running out since win10 is the version in the requirements
12:40 AM roycroft: if i'm honest, i've never had a need for uefi features in the past, and on newer machines i've always enabled legacy bios support
12:40 AM enleth: bang for buck ratio is *way* better
12:40 AM CaptHindsight: win7 is on your own
12:40 AM roycroft: this is the first machine where i'm using uefi
12:41 AM roycroft: and that's been my problem with the dual boot install
12:41 AM roycroft: but i think i almost have it sorted out
12:41 AM CaptHindsight: i have only purchased two intel systems since 2000
12:41 AM CaptHindsight: and they were for customers
12:41 AM enleth: also, there's a very nice list of known good IOMMU hardware on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IOMMU-supporting_hardware
04:56 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:58 AM XXCoder: hey
05:52 AM Tom_L: morning
05:54 AM JT-Cave: yo
05:57 AM TekniQue: yo
05:58 AM XXCoder: lo
05:58 AM JT-Cave: spent 2 hours yesterday setting up to weld two 3' fence panels that will take 10 minutes each
05:58 AM JT-Cave: ho
06:00 AM Tom_L: fence job or personal?
06:11 AM JT-Cave: the last bit of that fence job
06:11 AM JT-Cave: the gates
08:08 AM veegee: CaptHindsight "why so many for so low, slow economy?" -- because it's not a business haha, it's a hobby workshop
08:09 AM veegee: I was going to build a hydraulic lift instead of a ramp to load my car into the unit, but building one would cost at least $2,000 for all the steel and hydraulic cylinders, pump, etc.
08:09 AM veegee: For $3,000 (and negotiating even lower), I get the whole thing
08:10 AM veegee: Then I just build a platform with a few of 4x4 beams of wood and I'm good to go
08:10 AM veegee: need to fix 2 cars this winter
08:12 AM veegee: I really want this power supply, but it's quite expensive: https://www.bkprecision.com/products/power-supplies/9117-3000w-multi-range-80v-120a-dc-power-supply.html
08:15 AM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zBFeAPSpbM
08:15 AM gloops: The New Sound Of Formula E
08:17 AM veegee: Here's my formula for E: lithium titanate batteries, more lithium titanate batteries, and even more lithium titanate batteries
08:18 AM gloops: yeah, we banned normal cars from 2030, this week
08:24 AM rs[m]: it's about time to get rid of ICEs
08:24 AM veegee: rs[m] not necessarily
08:25 AM veegee: I love electric, but high efficiency internal combustion engines have their place
08:25 AM rs[m]: ICEs on wheel
08:26 AM veegee: rs[m] opposed piston engines are nice: https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/01/20180118-achates.html
08:26 AM veegee: I'd love to buy one of those engines
09:00 AM jymmmm: Morning
09:22 AM seb_kuzm1nsky is now known as seb_kuzminsky
09:22 AM skunkworks: Sunny out - mostly
10:31 AM JT-Shop: I've jacked up my water pressure a few times over the years and never did adjust the pressure tank... man was it low
10:55 AM JT-Shop: https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/10/spacex-prices-starlinks-beta-leo-satellite-broadband-service.html
10:55 AM JT-Shop: 5th trip with the portable air tank...
11:02 AM skunkworks: JT-Shop: are you able to get into starlink?
11:02 AM skunkworks: It would be intereting - my parents are getting along with really poor dsl..
11:03 AM skunkworks: 1mbs/128kbs
11:03 AM skunkworks: on a good day
11:05 AM skunkworks: dad had signed up for the beta testing - but has not heard anything
11:17 AM JT-Cave: I just got that link from phipli in the ##chicken channel
11:20 AM JT-Shop: hopefully normal water service has been restored now
11:54 AM unterhaus: I thought one of my neighbors was getting a visit from a shredding service
11:54 AM unterhaus: but they were lost
12:17 PM unterhaus: lowes has magnetic trays in their black friday sale. "View price in cart" not a chance
01:28 PM * JT-Shop thought he would have to "splice" some short bits of punched channel to finish this job but discovered 40' in the rack
01:31 PM tubes4branes: Anyone using nVidia Jetson to run LinuxCNC?
01:53 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:54 PM andypugh: Opinions solicited
01:54 PM andypugh: I am re-working my central heating controller idea, and want to have two different sized arrows for +5 degrees and +0.5 degrees.
01:54 PM andypugh: https://svgur.com/s/Rdo
01:55 PM andypugh: Which do folks prefer of the 4 options there?
01:55 PM tubes4branes: I was thinking of setting up LinuxCNC on the RT linux kernel on the Jetson TX2, and using a MESA FPGA interface board in the PCIe slot.
01:55 PM tubes4branes: or trying it with the MESA Ethernet boards.
01:55 PM andypugh: tubes4branes: Either ought to work
01:55 PM tubes4branes: That's what I was thinking :)
01:56 PM andypugh: I have always used PCI / PCIe (and EPP)
01:56 PM andypugh: Ethernet suits plasma machines, because of the isolation.
01:57 PM andypugh: To be honest, if I was building a machine right now I would probably choose based on what Mesa cards I have in the Mesa cards drawer :-)
01:57 PM tubes4branes: I have a circa 2007 Bridgeport EZ-VISION 3-axis CNC machine, but the computer is toast, the servos, and the servo drives are fine, they can take either a step/direction input, have encoder simulated outputs for quadrature via RS-422, and can take +/- 10V analog inputs in a variety of control modes, velocity, torque, linear, etc...
01:57 PM tubes4branes: I'm starting from scratch.
01:58 PM tubes4branes: I just need LinuxCNC to run the PID control loops.
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: tubes4branes: have you run the latency test yet on the Jetson?
01:59 PM Tom_L: andypugh, lower left might be easiest for yer mum
01:59 PM andypugh: I thought that might be most confusing, she might only see one arrow.
02:00 PM Tom_L: give the arrow a short 'stem'
02:00 PM tubes4branes: and I was worried about the realtime performance of Ethernet for this purpose, and if I'm sending data to the machine via ethernet, I thought it could interfere with the servo loop.
02:00 PM andypugh: Bear in mind that it took me 10 minutes on the phone looking at the manual for her existing controller to make her see the buttons as buttons and not “a bit of fancy” on the case
02:00 PM tubes4branes: I haven't done any tests with the Jetson yet.
02:00 PM CaptHindsight: tubes4branes: Mesa ethernet will require it be dedicated
02:01 PM tubes4branes: yeah, which would mean I would have to install a ethernet card in one of the PCIe slots, or use WiFi, which is why I think the MESA PCIe card would work.
02:01 PM tubes4branes: I'm also not opposed to going a different route.
02:01 PM CaptHindsight: if you need Mesa and local network you'll need a 2nd NIC
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: I have successfully avoided nVidia for >20 years
02:02 PM andypugh: Ethernet + USB WiFi dongle will probably work just fine
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: without explanation the graphics are confusing to me
02:04 PM tubes4branes: Another thing I was looking at was using a RPi 4B+ 8GB, but thought that I'd have better 3D graphics for tool paths on the Jetson.
02:05 PM andypugh: Tom_L: She didn’t “see” the UDLR buttons on this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/324376894110
02:05 PM CaptHindsight: tubes4branes: some users are using the Rp4 with 2GB and they are happy
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: at 1080 res
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: I had to look for a while to notice them myself. i was distracted by the upper right buttons
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: cleverly hidden in plain sight below the display
02:08 PM Tom_L: poor layout
02:09 PM tubes4branes: http://199.38.85.30/povrayart/2007-Bridgeport.jpg
02:10 PM tubes4branes: this is the machine I have.
02:10 PM tubes4branes: My plan is as follows:
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: looks in great shape
02:10 PM XXCoder: nice
02:11 PM tubes4branes: its in fantastic shape, the computer died on it, and they couldn't get replacement parts, so they mothballed it, I had to disassemble the Z-axis as the grease had coagulated, it was used so little.
02:15 PM tubes4branes: 4K 17" touch panel, Renshaw Probing setup, Renshaw Tool wear measuring device, Pinball Displays for a DRO that syncs to LinuxCNC encoder inputs, hack a HURCO MAX 5 pendant.
02:15 PM tubes4branes: https://offer.hurco.com/hubfs/One-Page-Template/images/main-features-3.png
02:15 PM tubes4branes: if reverse engineering the HURCO pendant is to much of a pain, I'd just make my own with a small display.
02:16 PM tubes4branes: I was going to make a mobile base for the machine so I can move it with a fork lift or roll it easily; with 1" thick steel plate, and threadded holes for leveling feet, put a piece of silicone between the machine and the base, and power coat the steel for the base.
02:17 PM tubes4branes: The pinball displays support changing the value directly or up/down counting from signal inputs, and will give the DRO a nice big display with a retro look.
02:18 PM tubes4branes: Then I've been thinking of changing the spindle to a BT-30 from a R8, but will probably leave it as it is.
02:19 PM tubes4branes: I am going to install a SKF digital bearing at the top of the spindle to measure the rotation of the spindle for tapping, and install a VFD for the motor.
02:19 PM tubes4branes: figure I will do a once over on the machine, and calibrate everything.
02:19 PM tubes4branes: Ball Screws were in excellent condition.
02:19 PM tubes4branes: Motors and servo amps are in great condition.
02:21 PM FinboySlick: tubes4branes: Digital bearings? Sort of an encoder/bearing combo?
02:21 PM tubes4branes: yup
02:22 PM FinboySlick: Got a link?
02:22 PM roycroft: i have this laptop working in dual-boot mode now
02:22 PM roycroft: so yay
02:23 PM tubes4branes: https://www.skf.com/us/products/rolling-bearings/engineered-products/sensor-bearing-units/motor-encoder-units
02:23 PM tubes4branes: a number of bearing companies make them.
02:24 PM tubes4branes: this will let me use the manual draw bar, which I prefer as I get a better feel for how my collets are holding, and it keeps wear down, I like the physical connection with the machine.
02:24 PM FinboySlick: Pretty fancy. I wonder which fails first... Or is it just an add-on where you can change the bearing withtout replacing the encoder?
02:24 PM tubes4branes: the encoder is integrated to the encoder.
02:24 PM tubes4branes: I'd just purchase a few so I have spare parts on hand.
02:25 PM tubes4branes: This is a bit like creating a art piece as a throw back to the era of the knee mill.
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: I haven't touched the Rpi4 for a few weeks but i recall 4K video only being solid when running Gentoo, the LCNC image had problems with 4K
02:28 PM tubes4branes: Another reason I'd like to use the nVidida Jetson series, is that it gives me the ability to use machine vision, and do video servoing, and part metrology on the machine, inspection, etc.
02:28 PM tubes4branes: with the 4K touch panel I wouldn't use the RPi, just not powerful enough.
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: I'd have to compare the configs but i do know the the LCNC image as is would drop 4K at times and the monitor or projector attached would display the brand logo while it was trying to resync
02:29 PM tubes4branes: https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-agx-xavier-developer-kit
02:29 PM tubes4branes: a projector mounted to the Bridgeport to show tool paths could be really cool.
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/zvxoHUT how I use 4k video with LCNC
02:31 PM tubes4branes: thanks CaptHindsight
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/zKNtBAg in action
02:32 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Is that an LCD?
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: 4k DLP projector
02:32 PM tubes4branes: I was planning to use a 4K touch screen.
02:33 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Are those getting cheaper?
02:33 PM tubes4branes: Ti makes a 4K light engine you can get as a developer kit.
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: ~$1500, down from >$2k a year or two ago
02:34 PM FinboySlick: I guess the trick would be to find one with a borked lamp since one wouldn't use that.
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: tubes4branes: yeah they cost way more than a 4k projector
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: then I extensively modify the projector
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: the Chinese light engines also keep the price high as soon as they detect 3D printer use
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: there is a $500 4K LCD printer out but you can't change the XY res
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: also uses closed source software and hardware
02:38 PM andypugh: Those encoder/bearings are remarkably reasonably priced.
02:42 PM tubes4branes: yes they are :)
02:43 PM tubes4branes: I will be back in a little bit, forgot to eat breakfast, and it was messing with my SVT's.
02:45 PM jymmmm: JT are you going to try the beta?
02:45 PM jymmmm: How bad is it to use 2ga copper clad aluminum cable?
02:48 PM tubes4branes: CaptHindsight: do you have any print samples from your resin printer?
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: tubes4branes: what do you wish to see? I make all sorts of additive manufacturing equipment
03:00 PM tubes4branes: Something you think demonstrates the capability and quality of your machine.
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: with an inverse microscope they can get down to ~1um XY per pixel
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/721d/d71875d7f231b97340e6b514361c4081bf28.pdf
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: https://gmwgroup.harvard.edu/files/gmwgroup/files/757.pdf
03:04 PM roycroft: my mcmaster order will finally arrive today
03:04 PM roycroft: after the ups truck broke down in southern oregon
03:04 PM roycroft: and then the replacement truck flew right by eugene and went to portland
03:05 PM Tom_L: sound lost
03:06 PM Tom_L: or they're just screwin with ya
03:09 PM JT-Shop: jymmmm, no
03:10 PM Tom_L: wind finally starting to die down some
03:17 PM JT-Shop: blowing pretty good here
03:17 PM JT-Shop: andypugh, why not just label the buttons +5 -5 +0.5 -0.5?
03:18 PM andypugh: Because this is actuall hand-cded SVG, mainly :-)
03:18 PM JT-Shop: ah ok
03:33 PM ziper: guys
03:33 PM ziper: whats the difference between a multi start thread and a helical gear
03:35 PM andypugh: The tooth form?
03:35 PM ziper: ok phew
03:35 PM ziper: i was having an existential crisis there
03:36 PM andypugh: They are geometrically very similar, but have different jobs.
03:41 PM andypugh: It gets very blurred when you get on to speedo drive gears: https://www.milspecvehicles.nl/product/speedo-drive-gear/
04:02 PM Tom_L: andypugh, you gonna make one?
04:03 PM andypugh: I have thought about them for spindle encoder drives
04:03 PM Tom_L: ahh nevermind.. context ^^
04:04 PM * roycroft shakes his head
04:04 PM roycroft: we're on lockdown here
04:04 PM Tom_L: andypugh, i thought about making something similar with a threadmill and offsetting the helix x degrees
04:04 PM roycroft: fairly serious this time - our governor has authorized law enforcement to arrest people who are violating the lockdown order
04:04 PM roycroft: and there's a group of a dozen adults and about 40 children walking down the street right now, all very close together, and none of them masked
04:05 PM andypugh: Mormon family?
04:05 PM roycroft: i'm sure it's some religious group
04:05 PM roycroft: most of the mormons live a town south of here
04:05 PM roycroft: but likely jehovah's witnesses or 7th day adventists
04:06 PM roycroft: freedom of religion does not equate with freedom to recklessly kill people
04:06 PM roycroft: or even recklessly spread disease
04:06 PM Tom_L: that must have a fairly high helix with 9 starts
04:07 PM Tom_L: not sure a threadmill would work on that high a helix
04:24 PM enleth: andypugh: perhaps Mormon, definitely moron
04:33 PM * JT-Shop has exactly 5.170" of 5/16" SS rod to make 6 gate hinges with...
04:36 PM JT-Shop: whew, I found a 10" piece... I'm good now
04:37 PM XXCoder: lol
04:37 PM XXCoder: reminds me of miliary joke
04:38 PM XXCoder: youre an captain and you have 2 rods, 8' and 10' rods, and 5 feet of rope, you are ordered to make 20' flag pole. how do you do it?
04:38 PM JT-Shop: beats me
04:38 PM XXCoder: easy really
04:38 PM XXCoder: ypu order segerant to do it
04:41 PM roycroft: and now the fun begins
04:41 PM roycroft: my iphone battery has arrived
04:45 PM JT-Shop: yea, I'd hate to order some cause I'm not doing any construction related work anymore like steel fences and beams and such
04:45 PM JT-Shop: I'm retiring from that line of work, I'll still do automation projects and programming
04:47 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, could be christian science as well as JW's they both reject medical treatment
05:09 PM CaptHindsight: likely just the right wing cult following the presidents directions
05:16 PM JT-Cave: president of the right wing cult?
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: more than just religious cults here now
05:19 PM _unreal_: ok. got my adapter cut finally
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: not like the olden days
05:19 PM roycroft: that actually went pretty well
05:19 PM roycroft: a lot easier than the last time i replaced an iphone battery
05:20 PM roycroft: the phone appears dead now, but i'm hoping that they shipped a full-discharged battery, and that it will come back to life after it charges for a while
05:21 PM roycroft: the box kind of says to charge for 12 hours before using, i think
05:21 PM roycroft: it's in engrish, so i'm not 100% sure
05:22 PM roycroft: i have a new battery arriving for my macbook pro today as well
05:22 PM roycroft: which is probably going to be way more fun to install
05:24 PM JT-Cave: you get to have all the fun
05:24 PM roycroft: that's because my boss is cheap
05:24 PM roycroft: i've had this laptop for six years
05:24 PM roycroft: and the phone about as long
05:24 PM JT-Cave: you should try working for my boss
05:25 PM roycroft: yeah, he's a real penny pincher, i hear
05:25 PM roycroft: and abusive to the help
05:25 PM roycroft: especially himself
05:25 PM JT-Cave: yep, you only get a minute for lunch here
05:29 PM enleth: JT-Cave: to be honest, I have more respect for the orthodox nuts who actually do reject medical treatment even when they really are in immediate danger of dying themselves - than the fat fucks in funny hats who run the catholic church over here, trying to tell people how and when they're allowed to live and die because a fairy in the sky says so, while frantically grabbing at any and all medical
05:29 PM enleth: procedures to keep themselves alive because they can afford it
05:29 PM enleth: at least the orthodox nutjobs are not hypocrites
05:31 PM JT-Cave: I respect the street hawker selling newspapers to stay alive more than any religious leader
05:31 PM roycroft: i really don't care about people's religious beliefs as long as they don't try to cram them down other people's throats
05:31 PM JT-Cave: yup
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: but but but it's for your own good! :)
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: how they see it
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: since everyone else requires enlightenment
05:32 PM roycroft: that's when i start having concerns about religion
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: some culkts require door to door knocking or you get kicked out
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: culkts/cults
05:33 PM XXCoder: is door to door like "among us" for tiny towns?
05:34 PM roycroft: and if they come to my door i tell them they will be arrested if they ever return
05:34 PM roycroft: and point to my no soliciting sign
05:34 PM JT-Cave: mormans are a pretty tough bunch, you better pay up or they will come to your house
05:34 PM XXCoder: "there is two persons with different religion, find them"
05:34 PM roycroft: they claim they're not soliciting
05:34 PM roycroft: i claim they are soliciting in the worst way
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: sure, it's preaching, not soliciting
05:34 PM roycroft: it's tresspassing
05:34 PM roycroft: and it's annoying
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: gods law is higher than mans law!
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: take that you sinner!
05:35 PM roycroft: the best way to answer the door when the jehovah's witnesses arrive is with rosary in hand
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: lots of circular reasoning as well
05:35 PM XXCoder: i would put sign "Want to talk about your religion? Sure! I welcome everyone at $40 first hour and $20 per hour afterwards, prepaid."
05:36 PM roycroft: i've actually done that before
05:36 PM roycroft: when they would not go away
05:36 PM CaptHindsight: just tell a JW that you were already one and were "dissfellowshipped" , they will run away, like in Pythons Holy grail
05:36 PM roycroft: i've quoted my hourly rate and told them that if they pay up front i'll stand and listen for as long as they've paid
05:36 PM CaptHindsight: use their own rules against them
05:36 PM roycroft: i think being a catholic is even worse in their eyes
05:37 PM roycroft: and no, they would not run away like in the holy grail
05:37 PM * JT-Cave is glad he lives on a dead end dirt road off of a dirt road even though his neighbor is a JW
05:37 PM roycroft: they might run away
05:37 PM CaptHindsight: nope, being excommunicated is the absolute worst
05:37 PM roycroft: but it would not be bravely
05:37 PM XXCoder: roy theres specific rules on disfellowshipped people interactions. basicallu, dont even talk, walk away and shun
05:37 PM roycroft: what the fuck kind of religion would do that to people?
05:37 PM roycroft: sorry for the strong language
05:38 PM roycroft: but what the fuck?
05:38 PM XXCoder: otherwise might get themselves added to list. so yeah they would walk the fuck away
05:38 PM roycroft: i'm no longer a christian, although i was raised such
05:38 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: it's a cult
05:38 PM roycroft: and we were taught that jesus was about love and acceptance and stuff
05:38 PM roycroft: finding the good in people
05:38 PM CaptHindsight: it is about complete control over their members
05:38 PM roycroft: disliking what bad people do but still loving them
05:38 PM CaptHindsight: thyey are very very good con men
05:38 PM roycroft: we were never taught anything about shunning and avoiding
05:39 PM roycroft: that's just nasty behavior
05:39 PM CaptHindsight: better than even the Great Pumpkin
05:39 PM roycroft: well i was brought up anglican
05:39 PM CaptHindsight: sure it is, but it works
05:39 PM roycroft: we'd rather have some sherry than to shun people
05:39 PM XXCoder: im glad i live at less religious areas. ie there isnt church each block
05:40 PM JT-Cave: interesting never seen the word anglican before ah Episcopalians
05:40 PM CaptHindsight: people get comfortable with their issues, they are attracted to certain rituals and ways of life
05:41 PM CaptHindsight: and if you work on them daily they become devout followers
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: it's the daily involvement and separation from those outside that does the trick
05:42 PM JT-Cave: the graves of Russian Orthodox were interesting to find when I was ute
05:42 PM roycroft: anglican/episcopalian - same thing
05:42 PM roycroft: the official name of the church in the us is the episcopal church
05:43 PM roycroft: in england it's the church of england
05:43 PM CaptHindsight: worse if you are raised in a cult since you have no other reference
05:43 PM roycroft: they're both anglican
05:43 PM roycroft: in this country, at least there is "high church" and "low church"
05:43 PM JT-Cave: ah I learned something tonight
05:43 PM roycroft: high churches have sung mass and incense and stuff
05:43 PM roycroft: low churches have simple services, mostly spoken, not sung
05:43 PM roycroft: the high churches tend to refer to themselves as anglican
05:43 PM JT-Cave: interesting
05:43 PM roycroft: and the low churches as episcopalian
05:44 PM roycroft: but they both use the same book of common prayer
05:44 PM roycroft: it's just a matter of the level of staging and costuming
05:45 PM roycroft: "episcopal" means relating to a bishop
05:45 PM roycroft: it's the church's way of differentiating itself from the protestants
05:45 PM CaptHindsight: recall Carlins routine about "hats"?
05:46 PM roycroft: in the ancient church, priests had to be ordained by a bishop
05:46 PM roycroft: and bishops by three other bishops
05:46 PM CaptHindsight: george carlin hats
05:46 PM XXCoder: https://www.zenpencils.com/comic/23-george-carlin-on-religious-hats-explicit/
05:46 PM roycroft: when martin luther split off from the catholic church he dould not get three bishops to go along with him
05:46 PM roycroft: so he changed the rules such that there were no more bishops
05:47 PM roycroft: but when the church of england was founded, it wasn't like that at all
05:47 PM roycroft: basically, the king fired the pope and put the archibishop of canterbury in charge
05:47 PM roycroft: and ordered all the other clergy to join his new club
05:47 PM roycroft: and outlawed the catholics
05:47 PM roycroft: so there were plenty of bishops to keep the tradition going
05:48 PM CaptHindsight: it's good to be the king if your subjects are ignorant and obedient
05:49 PM * roycroft figures he's probably shared more than most folks want to know about the history of western christianity
05:49 PM CaptHindsight: faith based CNC
05:50 PM CaptHindsight: the stepper motor
05:50 PM roycroft: i've renounced religion and turned to science
05:50 PM JT-Cave: history is always interesting to me
05:50 PM CaptHindsight: closed loop people have little faith
05:50 PM roycroft: the phone shows no signs of life, and it's been charging for a half hour
05:51 PM roycroft: i'd think it would show a very weak charge by now, at least
05:51 PM roycroft: when it did not work at first i disassembled it again to make sure all the cables were connected securely
05:51 PM roycroft: oh well, i'll let it sit overnight and see if it is alive in the morning
05:51 PM CaptHindsight: never had an iphone but I have revived other phones after many years and it take some time to see some life
05:52 PM JT-Cave: yea should show some signs of charging
05:52 PM JT-Cave: I changed the battery in my drone eye phone and it showed charging right away
05:52 PM roycroft: the batteries for these phones are enclosed in a very thin rubbery membrane
05:53 PM roycroft: it's very easy to puncture/damage the membrane, and the battery would catch on fire or explode if that happened
05:53 PM roycroft: so while most lithium ion batteries are shipped mostly or fully charged, i can see shipping these completely discharged
05:53 PM roycroft: it's a lot safer that way
05:54 PM JT-Cave: where did you get the battery from?
05:54 PM roycroft: amazon.com
05:54 PM roycroft: who got it from china
05:54 PM roycroft: i can return it if it doesn't work
05:54 PM roycroft: it was the "highest rated" battery for this phone on amazon
05:54 PM roycroft: er
05:54 PM roycroft: amazon's choice
05:54 PM roycroft: that's the term they sue
05:54 PM roycroft: use
05:54 PM roycroft: which i think means "highest profit"
05:55 PM JT-Cave: I get all my phone stuff at fixez.com
05:55 PM roycroft: but that includes "least returns"
05:55 PM JT-Cave: never had an issue
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: Oh lord of polymer storage.....
05:56 PM roycroft: the battery could be fine
05:56 PM roycroft: i could have damaged the phone
05:56 PM roycroft: i was very careful, and the procedure was very straightforward
05:56 PM roycroft: but the phone is very delicate
05:56 PM JT-Cave: the connector is delicate and if not fully seated...
05:56 PM roycroft: if it's not charged in the morning i'll disassemble it again and check even more thoroughly for any lose connections
05:56 PM CaptHindsight: Oh great consumer electronics invisible angry sky man...
05:57 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: I was away for a bit, did you finish off all the wood bench projects?
05:58 PM roycroft: my workbench is finished
05:58 PM roycroft: except for the deadman
05:58 PM roycroft: i actually have the bench covered right now - my linuxcnc computer is sitting on it
05:58 PM roycroft: and i'm awaiting a shipment from mcmaster that will arrive presently
05:59 PM roycroft: when i get that i'll be able to finish assembling the computer
05:59 PM roycroft: it's been sitting on the bench for a week because i need 2 m2.5x6 standoffs to hold the wireless card in place
05:59 PM roycroft: i'm ready for it to not be on the bench any more
06:00 PM CaptHindsight: I keep a bag of all the typical PC fasteners around
06:00 PM CaptHindsight: of each
06:01 PM CaptHindsight: i look for 100pc bags on ebay from China
06:01 PM CaptHindsight: takes 2 months to arrive but then you always have enough for $3/bag
06:06 PM CaptHindsight: in brass, aluminum, steel and nylon
06:35 PM unterhaus_: I pulled an old computer out of storage because it has a setup program for my drives. I made a zip file of the program but the power went out and now the computer gets stuck while booting
06:39 PM unterhaus_: it also has a fedora install, but it's old enough it didn't automatically mount the winders drive
06:40 PM unterhaus_: wonder if it can even read ntfs
06:43 PM unterhaus_: good news is ntfs seems to be built into the kernel in that version of fedora
09:19 PM CaptHindsight: https://formlabs.com/uk/blog/adding-screw-threads-3d-printed-parts/
09:30 PM Tom_L: heat sets work pretty good
09:33 PM Tom_L: aparently not in SLA
09:37 PM CaptHindsight: just place the inserts on the print while printing top down
09:38 PM CaptHindsight: or bond them in using the same or other acrylics
09:38 PM Tom_L: just so the print head doesn't hit them
09:39 PM CaptHindsight: there is no head, it's not inkjet